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This is a topic from the Current Politics and Religious Topics forum on inthe00s.
Subject: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/17/04 at 1:33 pm
July 16, 2004
In a report which might alternately be termed “stunning†or “terrifyingâ€Â, United Nations weapons inspectors confirmed last week not merely that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, but that he smuggled them out of his country, before, during and after the war.
Late last week, the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) briefed the Security Council on Saddam's lightning-fast dismantling of missile and WMD sites before and during the war. UNMOVIC executive chairman Demetrius Perricos detailed not only the export of thousands of tons of missile components, nuclear reactor vessels and fermenters for chemical and biological warheads, but also the discovery of many (but not most) of these items - with UN inspection tags still on them -- as far afield as Jordan, Turkey and even Holland.
Notably absent from that list is Iraq's western neighbor Syria, ruled by its own Baath Party just like Saddam's and closed to even the thought of an UNMOVIC inspection. Israeli intelligence has been reporting the large-scale smuggling of Saddam's WMD program across the Syrian border since at least two months before the war. Syria has long been the world's foremost state-sponsor of terrorism.
Perricos highlighted the proliferation danger to the Security Council, as well he should: UNMOVIC has no idea where most of the WMD material is today, just that it exists and it's gone; and anything in Syria is likely to be in Jerusalem or New York tomorrow.
This is the biggest news story of 2004 so far. Yet you haven't heard about it, have you?
You probably haven't heard about Canada's Prime Minister Paul Martin either -- a socialist and no friend of America. Addressing a group of 700 university researchers and business leaders in Montreal last month, Martin stated bluntly that terrorists have acquired WMDs from Saddam. “The fact is that there is now, we know well, a proliferation of nuclear weapons, and that many weapons that Saddam Huseein had, we don't know where they are…. errorists have access to all of them,†the Canadian premier warned.
The tip of this terrorist sword was scarcely deflected on April 26th, when Jordanian intelligence broke up an al Qaeda conspiracy to detonate a large chemical device in the capital city of Amman. Directed by al Qaeda terrorist leader Abu al-Zarqawi -- the same man who personally beheaded American Nicholas Berg in Iraq last month -- the plotters sought to use a massive explosion to spread a “toxic cloudâ€Â, meant to wipe out the U.S. embassy, the Jordanian prime minister's office, the Jordanian intelligence headquarters, and at least 20,000 civilians (by contrast, only 3,000 died on 9/11). Over twenty tons of chemical weapons were seized from the conspirators, who were just days away from carrying out their plot.
One wonders where CNN and USA Today think twenty tons of nerve gas and sarin came from: Chemical Weapons-Mart? Yet their coverage, like most major media outlets, mentioned not a word about Saddam's smuggled WMDs, which -- according to liberal dogma -- “don't exist.â€Â
Even though the UN says they do exist, now spread around the world.
It's not just the UN. Bill Clinton says they exist, even after the war: in a July 2003 interview with Larry King, the ex-president uncharacteristically defended George Bush, saying “it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there …a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for†in Iraq. Every intelligence agency in the world -- French, British, German, Russian, Czech, you name it -- agreed before the war; Jordanian intelligence can certainly confirm their opinion today.
So what's the deal? Why the relentless pretence that “Bush lied†when even the UN and Bill Clinton say he didn't? Why the absolute silence about “inconvenient†parts of various UN reports, such as the discovery of chemical and biological weapons plans, recipes and equipment; of bio-weapons agents in an Iraqi scientist's house; of a prison lab for testing bio weapons on humans; of complexes for manufacturing fuel for prohibited long-range missiles; of artillery rounds containing enough sarin to kill thousands of people, of similar shells containing mustard gas, two (but far from the only) of which were used in a terrorist attack against U.S. forces just weeks ago?
America cannot afford the answer to this “whyâ€Â: that many on the left consider George W. Bush's defeat more urgent than al Qaeda's, his political death more essential than the possible physical death of millions of Americans.
The character of our foreign enemies has never been in doubt. The character of the enemy within has never been clearer. And the stakes are the highest they've ever been.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: Powerslave on 07/17/04 at 1:40 pm
What is the source for this? Or did you forget to include that in your haste to post it here, with its rehtorical questions and alarmist language? Why is Paul Martin described as a "socialist and no friend of America". What does that have to do with this story?
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/17/04 at 2:03 pm
What is the source for this? Or did you forget to include that in your haste to post it here, with its rehtorical questions and alarmist language? Why is Paul Martin described as a "socialist and no friend of America". What does that have to do with this story?
Don't know what it has to do with the story. This nugget was posted at http://www.thevanguard.org/ ÂÂ
Yeah yeah, I know its a conservative website, but I loved the way they worded it so i'll post another source, one I doubt even the biggest kool-aid drinking liberal in the world could label a lie, like the UN'S OWN OFFECIAL WEBSITE:
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/documents/quarterly_reports/s-2004-435.pdf
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: Powerslave on 07/17/04 at 2:15 pm
I'm quite pleased with you for adding the link to the UN report, because your original post just looked like alarmist propaganda dressed up as a late-breaking news story. But you've given me something to read now. Thanks. :)
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: Indy Gent on 07/17/04 at 2:22 pm
I'm sure glad that the UN is on Bush's side here. That still doesn't explain why he sent soldiers to Iraq without the UN's blessing when Osama bin Laden is still at large. (And yes, I am a Republican.) Iraq might be a safer place without Saddam running it, but the US has become less safe. :(
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: RockandRollFan on 07/17/04 at 2:25 pm
Now michael moore has MORE to eat!
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: Don Carlos on 07/17/04 at 2:31 pm
I just read the UN report refered to, and while it discusses missle engins and "duel use" materials discovered in a scrap yard, it certainly doesn't justify GWB's assertions of WMDs all over the place, nor does it contradict and of the recent committee reports declaring that Iraq had no WMDs. Clearly both GWB and Lill' Georgie would LIKE there to be WMDs discovered, but you just can't make this stuff up as you go along.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: Powerslave on 07/17/04 at 3:54 pm
I'm sure glad that the UN is on Bush's side here. That still doesn't explain why he sent soldiers to Iraq without the UN's blessing when Osama bin Laden is still at large. (And yes, I am a Republican.) Iraq might be a safer place without Saddam running it, but the US has become less safe. :(
You are correct, and at the risk of digging up old arguments about the legality of the invasion in the first place, Saddam was given a mandate to overturn any WMDs he still had under the auspices of the UN resolutions. The UN was given a mandate to enter Iraq and ensure that he no longer had them. Despite the UN inspectors finding no evidence of WMDs in Iraq at the time, and before they could say for sure one way or the other, the US invaded anyway, so the existence or non-existence of weapons became a moot point.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: resinchaser on 07/17/04 at 4:21 pm
Don't know what it has to do with the story. This nugget was posted at http://www.thevanguard.org/ ÂÂ
But why is Paul Martin being reffered to as "No friend of america"?
And BTW, Paul Martin is not a socialist ::)
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: danootaandme on 07/17/04 at 5:36 pm
I read the documents. Seems like there are a lot of mights and maybes and howevers. Doesn't
look like the smoking gun vanguard seems to portray it as. I would suppose you would have to
judge how much weight you give to the Special Counsel to PayPal founder Peter Theil.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/18/04 at 12:18 am
Yes, but this report is still only being discussed on right-wing websites. I haven't seen the UN document. I don't like to download PDF files.
I would rather have a government not so slavishly beholden to the oil companies that it will get involved in foreign exploits that will earn us the hatred of people around the world. Anybody who doesn't think the invasion of Iraq is about oil is crazy.
I'm more concerned about domestic issues this election. The right-wing is trying to scare us with tales of terrorism so we'll submit to an authoritarian state at home and imperial conquests abroad. We need to repair our social and physical infrastructure if we want to be a more secure nation.
We must reverse the yawning gap between the rich and the poor if we want a secure constitutional republic.
If we stick with the Republican agenda, we'll turn into a bigger, more northerly version of Argentina. We'll be a shattered, broke, and corrupt fascist state kept in check only by fear of reprisals and right-wing religious populism.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: danootaandme on 07/18/04 at 9:16 am
I don't tend towards paranoiad behavior , but I do keep my passport updated, and intend to
stay close to the border, and vote in every single election, city,state, country.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: philbo on 07/18/04 at 1:41 pm
I've been arguing this one on another forum.. to summarize:- An announcement that some of the things the inspectors knew all about had been sold as scrap metal... yeah, right. For this we went to war, spent billions and killed thousands?
Just because some right-wing Bush brown-noser decides to stick a "WMD were being exported" headline on the article means absolutely nothing. There is no story here.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/18/04 at 2:08 pm
I've been arguing this one on another forum.. to summarize:- An announcement that some of the things the inspectors knew all about had been sold as scrap metal... yeah, right. For this we went to war, spent billions and killed thousands?
Just because some right-wing Bush brown-noser decides to stick a "WMD were being exported" headline on the article means absolutely nothing. There is no story here.
And just because the Administration says WMDs justify invasion doesn't necessarily make it so. Question authority.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: Don Carlos on 07/18/04 at 4:25 pm
I'm sure glad that the UN is on Bush's side here. That still doesn't explain why he sent soldiers to Iraq without the UN's blessing when Osama bin Laden is still at large. (And yes, I am a Republican.) Iraq might be a safer place without Saddam running it, but the US has become less safe. :(
But the UN, as far as this report is concerned, ISN"T on Bush's side. It supports NONE Of the alegations made in GWB's post. In fact, quite the contrary. The missle engins discovered were in a SCRAP YARD, indicating that Iraq was getting rid of forbidden stuff, not selling it to terrorists. Nor does the report say much about chemical or biological agents. It certainlyt doesn't say that they were smuggled into Syria or anywhere else. Go read it!
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/19/04 at 2:26 am
There was this thing on Fox News and I am going by memory here. 2 months before Operation: Iraqi freedom Bush said ''Iraq in 2002/2003 tried to purchase materials to make a nuclear weapon.'' Democrats pounded him and he backed off it, now 2 new reports prove Saddam did try to purchase materials to make a nuclear weapon from Niger. I'll try to find the story.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/19/04 at 2:35 am
There was this thing on Fox News and I am going by memory here. 2 months before Operation: Iraqi freedom Bush said ''Iraq in 2002/2003 tried to purchase materials to make a nuclear weapon.'' Democrats pounded him and he backed off it, now 2 new reports prove Saddam did try to purchase materials to make a nuclear weapon from Niger. I'll try to find the story.
Reports bolster Bush Iraq-uranium claim
British report says assertion was ‘well-founded’The Associated Press
Updated: 3:47 p.m. ET July 18, 2004WASHINGTON - It was one of the first signs that the intelligence used to go to war in Iraq was wrong: White House repudiation of 16 words in last year’s State of the Union speech that had suggested Saddam Hussein tried to buy uranium in Africa.
Yet even as two recent reports sharply criticized prewar intelligence, they also suggested President Bush’s claim may not have been totally off-base.
A British report has concluded that Bush’s statement and a similar one by Prime Minister Tony Blair were “well-founded.†In his speech, Bush had attributed the uranium claim to the British government.
A Senate Intelligence Committee report found inadequate evidence that deposed Iraqi President Saddam had been rebuilding his nuclear weapons program. It cited various reports, however, that Iraq had sought uranium in Africa. Thus, although Bush cited only British evidence that was determined to have been inconclusive, other intelligence files clearly contained other inconclusive evidence of the truth of the claim.
The committee chairman, Sen. Pat Roberts, said he believed last year that the White House was correct in repudiating the uranium claim. “Now I don’t know whether it’s accurate or not. That’s the whole question,†Roberts, R-Kan., said in an interview.
Subject: Re: UN confirms: WMD's smuggled out of Iraq!
Written By: Don Carlos on 07/19/04 at 4:34 pm
Reports bolster Bush Iraq-uranium claim
British report says assertion was ‘well-founded’The Associated Press
Updated: 3:47 p.m. ET July 18, 2004WASHINGTON - It was one of the first signs that the intelligence used to go to war in Iraq was wrong: White House repudiation of 16 words in last year’s State of the Union speech that had suggested Saddam Hussein tried to buy uranium in Africa.
Yet even as two recent reports sharply criticized prewar intelligence, they also suggested President Bush’s claim may not have been totally off-base.
A British report has concluded that Bush’s statement and a similar one by Prime Minister Tony Blair were “well-founded.†In his speech, Bush had attributed the uranium claim to the British government.
A Senate Intelligence Committee report found inadequate evidence that deposed Iraqi President Saddam had been rebuilding his nuclear weapons program. It cited various reports, however, that Iraq had sought uranium in Africa. Thus, although Bush cited only British evidence that was determined to have been inconclusive, other intelligence files clearly contained other inconclusive evidence of the truth of the claim.
The committee chairman, Sen. Pat Roberts, said he believed last year that the White House was correct in repudiating the uranium claim. “Now I don’t know whether it’s accurate or not. That’s the whole question,†Roberts, R-Kan., said in an interview.
Read this, but the reports on which the Niger claims were made were proven to be forgeries. The other "inconclusive" evidence has not been revealed.
And while we're on the subject, why has Bob Novak not been supeanaed and forced to reveal the criminal who exposed Valarie Plame, or charged with aiding and abetting in the commission of a felony?