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Subject: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: saver on 07/15/04 at 3:12 pm

Heard Kerry on the Don Imus show called Bush the biggest Flip-Flopper of them all...

Someone ought to get a brain check!!
 and find another country to run....

Oh and wasn't KERRY the one who said 'John Edwards isn't fit to be (vice-)president???

Such a dolt!

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: danootaandme on 07/15/04 at 3:30 pm

bush the great uniter-flip
No child left behind-flop
job creation-flip
health care-flop
get osama-flip

Maybe he should have done what little georgie did.  He asked daddies buddy dick cheney to do a
v.p. search.  dick changed his homestate and pronounced himself the best one for the job. 

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: CatwomanofV on 07/15/04 at 3:33 pm

Wasn't it Bush who said, "I am an uniter, not a divider" and after 4 years, this country is more divided then I have EVER seen it.

Didn't he also say something about "Fuzzy math"? What I think it is "fuzzy math" when you give mega tax breaks to those who don't need it and this country is going bankrupted because of it.

Didn't he also say that he is a compassionate-conservitive? Well, I have seen the conservititive part but not the compassionate part.

He also said that we should support our troops at the same time he was cutting VA AND active duty benefits-something about active duty personnel having to pay toward their health insurence (?)

He also said (prior too 9/11) something about not wanting to send troops into North Korea because it will spread our military too thin-then after 9/11 he sends troops not only to Afganistan but also Iraq which had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.

He also said that we (the U.S.) are not in the business of nation building. HELLO? What do you think we are doing in Iraq?

If that is not flip-flopping, I don't know what is! That is just the tip of the iceburg. There are so many others that I have not mentioned that I am sure others will. His words do not match his actions. 



Cat

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Harmonica on 07/15/04 at 3:41 pm

Well let me stand up for Bush, and go against Kerry,  when I say I'm voting for George W Bush.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Don Carlos on 07/15/04 at 3:54 pm

How about supporting families working class families and the proposing to eliminate SIX MILLION PEOPLE from overtime protection?

How about promising to improve air quality and then proposing to exempt major air polluters from current provisions of the clean air act?

And proposing that the way to prevent forest fires is to cut down the national forests by opening them up to logging?

How about promising to improve education, then enacting "no child left untested" and by the way, no teacher as well, and even if there is some merit, not providing the funds to support these initiatives, not even fully funding aid for learning disabled kids.  One of the reasons Jim Jeffords (one of my Senators) became independent.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: danootaandme on 07/15/04 at 6:47 pm

I have always had conservative friends whose positions I have respected, but I am tired of
this rabid partisanship.  How anyone can listen to the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Jay Severin, and then
parrot the drivel they spew is enough to make me grab them by the hair and shake them.  How many non issues can they come up with before they get sick of themselves. 

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/15/04 at 6:58 pm

No child left behind...
ON THE WAY TO THE RENDERING PLANT!
::)

I agree with Saver, how dare Kerry call Bush a flip-flopper when he needed to call him what he is, the very thing Truman called Nixon, "a shifty-eyed g*dd*mned liar"!
The only difference is, Nixon always knew he was lying, Bush just parrots the lies fed to him!



I have always had conservative friends whose positions I have respected, but I am tired of
this rabid partisanship.  How anyone can listen to the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Jay Severin, and then
parrot the drivel they spew is enough to make me grab them by the hair and shake them.  How many non issues can they come up with before they get sick of themselves. 

Oh, are you from around Boston?  So you've heard of Jay Severin, eh?  The guy's paranoid, racist, hate-mongering nitwit.  He's much worse than the other Boston bigot, Howie Carr, on AM 680, WRKO. 
BTW, I know Howie's eldest daughter.  She's intelligent, well-spoken, open-minded, thoughtful, and friendly.  How a nasty old fat b*st*rd like Howie ended up with such a nice daughter is beyond me.  She says her dad's on-air personality is just a schtick, but I'm not so sure.  I've listened to him for years, and I think he's a thug.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: RockandRollFan on 07/15/04 at 10:13 pm


Well let me stand up for Bush, and go against Kerry,  when I say I'm voting for George W Bush.
I will probably vote for him....I will NOT vote for Kerry...isn't it funny how the topic starts with kerry and turns into a Bush-bash ::) I noticed the same thing happen in a topic that was supposed to be about "Killer" Ted kennedy... ??? :P

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/15/04 at 10:44 pm



I will probably vote for him....I will NOT vote for Kerry...isn't it funny how the topic starts with kerry and turns into a Bush-bash ::) I noticed the same thing happen in a topic that was supposed to be about "Killer" Ted kennedy... ??? :P

Ted Kennedy isn't a "killer."  He never "killed" anyone.  "Kill" implies a deliberate act.  The terrible accident at Chappaquiddick in 1969 did result in the death of Mary Jo Kaopectate, and it was Kennedy's irresponisible behavior that caused her death.  However, this is not "killing" legally or morally.  If his name was Charlie Nobody, the worst he would have gotten would be "involuntary manslaughter," punishable by no more than a few years in prison.  Please understand, I'm not saying Kennedy didn't do wrong.  He did.  I'm saying it's merely inflammatory to call him "killer."  Why not refer to, "Killer" Laura Bush?

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: My name is Kenny on 07/16/04 at 1:19 am

"Kill" implies a deliberate act.

Not really.

It does imply "ad hominem argument," though.

If his name was Charlie Nobody, the worst he would have gotten would be "involuntary manslaughter," punishable by no more than a few years in prison.

Maybe back then.  I think they're giving much harsher penalties for drunk driving nowadays, especially ones where death is involved.



Who likes South Park?  I like South Park.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/16/04 at 2:44 am



did result in the death of Mary Jo Kaopectate, and it was Kennedy's irresponisible behavior that caused her death. 


100% correct.  He should have been convicted on reckless manslaughter.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/16/04 at 3:17 am

It wasn't suppose to be this way, democrats chances of winning back the white house go from so-so right down to zero.  Teresa's ''got the bucks'' production presents John Forbes Kerry in the role he was destined for in ''Dawn of the brain-dead candidate.''

John Kerry: I voted for it, before I voted against it.

Blinded by their own relenting hatred for George W. Bush, party faithfuls struggle against a tidel wave of flip-flops.

Man: You can't expect John Kerry to mean what he says, no one in their right mind would expect that, right Teddy?

Edward Kennedy: Uh....George Bush is bad!  Vote for America.

Man: Teddy, pull up your pants man.

Leaders from around the socialist world rally around their botax-brained candidate.

John Kerry:  Uh.....I.....wanted....a strong America so I voted to kill every defense and weapon system we use in the war on terror today.
 
Don't miss ''Dawn of the brain-dead candidate,'' coming out Nov. 3rd.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/menu/fstack/kerry_flips_on_israeli_fence.Par.0002.ImageFile.jpg

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: danootaandme on 07/16/04 at 5:38 am

Ahhh, GW.  that was beautiful.  You see guys, the best thing to do is let people like him prattle on,
he proves our arguments for us.

Yes I am from the Boston area and I turn on Severin and Carr on occasion to see if they are
able to have meaningful dialogue.  Alas, no.  Jay Severin, with that "best and brightest" drivel.
He is a "Boston D.J." who lives and broadcasts from New York.  If I was Carrs daughter I would be
ashamed to admit that my father spewed that venom for the sake of ratings, but there you have it.
Severin, Carr, and company whore themselves for the ratings, and the paycheck that goes with it.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/16/04 at 6:17 am


Ahhh, GW.  that was beautiful.  You see guys, the best thing to do is let people like him prattle on,
he proves our arguments for us.




Are you talking about me prattling on and proving the democRATS' argument, or letting John F. Kerry prattle on to prove the arguments of the republiCANS.  If you are from Massachusetts, I THINK I know my answer.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: PoPCultureGirl on 07/16/04 at 7:19 am


I agree with Saver, how dare Kerry call Bush a flip-flopper when he needed to call him what he is, the very thing Truman called Nixon, "a shifty-eyed g*dd*mned liar"!
The only difference is, Nixon always knew he was lying, Bush just parrots the lies fed to him!


;D  ;D  So true!

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/16/04 at 8:28 am

Okay you want Kerry flip-flops?  Okay here we go, (long post.)

Flip Flopped On Trade With China

In 1991, Kerry Supported Most-Favored Trade Status For China. “Sen. John Kerry said yesterday that he is breaking party ranks to support most-favored-nation trade status for China … ‘I think the president has some strong arguments about some of the assets of most-favored-nation status for China,’ Kerry said.” (John Aloysius Farrell, “Kerry Breaks Party Ranks To Back China Trade Status,” The Boston Globe, 6/15/91)

In 2000, Kerry Voted In Favor Of Permanent Normal Trade Relations With China. (H.R. 4444, CQ Vote #251: Passed 83-15: R 46-8; D 37-7, 9/19/00, Kerry Voted Yea)

Now Kerry Criticizes The Bush Administration For Trading With China. “Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said on Monday Americans workers were paying the price for President Bush's weak stance on trade with China and other countries. … On the bus tour, Kerry singled out the Bush administration's handling of trade with China and said that country was manipulating its currency.” (Caren Bohan, "Kerry Pledges Aggressive Trade Stance," Reuters, 4/26/04)



Flip-Flopped On Iraq War

Kerry Voted For Authorization To Use Force In Iraq. (H.J. Res. 114, CQ Vote #237: Passed 77-23: R 48-1; D 29-21; I 0-1, 10/11/02, Kerry Voted Yea.)

In First Dem Debate, Kerry Strongly Supported President’s Action In Iraq. KERRY: “George, I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him.” (ABC News, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Columbia, SC, 5/4/03)

Kerry Later Claimed He Voted “To Threaten” Use Of Force In Iraq. “I voted to threaten the use of force to make Saddam Hussein comply with the resolutions of the United Nations.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Announcement Of Presidential Candidacy, Mount Pleasant, SC, 9/2/03)

Now, Kerry Says He Is Anti-War Candidate. CHRIS MATTHEWS: “Do you think you belong to that category of candidates who more or less are unhappy with this war, the way it’s been fought, along with General Clark, along with Howard Dean and not necessarily in companionship politically on the issue of the war with people like Lieberman, Edwards and Gephardt? Are you one of the anti-war candidates?” KERRY: “I am -- Yes, in the sense that I don’t believe the president took us to war as he should have, yes, absolutely.” (MSNBC’s “Hardball,” 1/6/04)

Flip-Flopped On Eliminating Marriage Penalty For Middle Class

Kerry Said He Will Fight To Keep Tax Relief For Married Couples. “Howard Dean and Gephardt are going to put the marriage penalty back in place. So if you get married in America, we’re going to charge you more taxes. I do not want to do that.” (Fox News’ “Special Report,” 10/23/03)

Said Democrats Fought To End Marriage Penalty Tax. “We fought hard to get rid of the marriage penalty.” (MSNBC’s “News Live,” 7/31/03)

But, In 1998, Kerry Voted Against Eliminating Marriage Penalty Relief For Married Taxpayers With Combined Incomes Less Than $50,000 Per Year, Saving Taxpayers $46 Billion Over 10 Years. (S. 1415, CQ Vote #154: Rejected 48-50: R 5-49; D 43-1, 6/10/98, Kerry Voted Yea)

Flip-Flopped On Patriot Act

Kerry Voted For Patriot Act. The Patriot Act was passed nearly unanimously by the Senate 98-1, and 357-66 in the House. (H.R. 3162, CQ Vote #313: Passed 98-1: R 49-0; D 48-1; I 1-0, 10/25/01, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Used To Defend His Vote. “Most of has to do with improving the transfer of information between CIA and FBI, and it has to do with things that really were quite necessary in the wake of what happened on September 11th.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Town Hall Meeting, Manchester, NH, 8/6/03)

Now, Kerry Attacks Patriot Act. “We are a nation of laws and liberties, not of a knock in the night. So it is time to end the era of John Ashcroft. That starts with replacing the Patriot Act with a new law that protects our people and our liberties at the same time. I’ve been a District Attorney and I know that what law enforcement needs are real tools not restrictions on American’s basic rights.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At Iowa State University, 12/1/03)

Kerry Took BOTH Sides On First Gulf War

Kerry Took BOTH Sides In First Gulf War In Separate Letters To Same Constituent. “Rather than take a side--albeit the one he thought was most expedient--Kerry actually stood on both sides of the first Gulf war, much like he did this time around. Consider this ‘Notebook’ item from TNR’s March 25, 1991 issue, which ran under the headline ‘Same Senator, Same Constituent’: ‘Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war.’ --letter from Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Massachusetts, dated January 22 ‘Thank you very much for contacting me to express your support for the actions of President Bush in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. From the outset of the invasion, I have strongly and unequivocally supported President Bush’s response to the crisis and the policy goals he has established with our military deployment in the Persian Gulf.’ --Senator Kerry to Wallace Carter, January 31 ” (Noam Scheiber, “Noam Scheiber’s Daily Journal of Politics, The New Republic Online, 1/28/04)

Flip-Flopped On Gay Marriage Amendment

In 2002, Kerry Signed Letter “Urging” MA Legislature To Reject Constitutional Amendment Banning Gay Marriage. “We rarely comment on issues that are wholly within the jurisdiction of the General Court, but there are occasions when matters pending before you are of such significance to all residents of the Commonwealth that we think it appropriate for us to express our opinion. One such matter is the proposed Constitutional amendment that would prohibit or seriously inhibit any legal recognition whatsoever of same-sex relationships. We believe it would be a grave error for Massachusetts to enshrine in our Constitution a provision which would have such a negative effect on so many of our fellow residents. … We are therefore united in urging you to reject this Constitutional amendment and avoid stigmatizing so many of our fellow citizens who do not deserve to be treated in such a manner.” (Sen. John Kerry, et al, Letter To Members Of The Massachusetts Legislature, 7/12/02)

Now, In 2004, Kerry Won’t Rule Out Supporting Similar Amendment. “Asked if he would support a state constitutional amendment barring gay and lesbian marriages, Kerry didn’t rule out the possibility. ‘I’ll have to see what language there is,’ he said.” (Susan Milligan, “Kerry Says GOP May Target Him On ‘Wedge Issue,’” The Boston Globe, 2/6/04)

Flip-Flopped On Attacking President During Time Of War

In March 2003, Kerry Promised Not To Attack President When War Began. “Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts … said he will cease his complaints once the shooting starts. ‘It’s what you owe the troops,’ said a statement from Kerry, a Navy veteran of the Vietnam War. ‘I remember being one of those guys and reading news reports from home. If America is at war, I won’t speak a word without measuring how it’ll sound to the guys doing the fighting when they’re listening to their radios in the desert.’” (Glen Johnson, “Democrats On The Stump Plot Their War Rhetoric,” The Boston Globe, 3/11/03)

But Weeks Later, With Troops Just Miles From Baghdad, Kerry Broke His Pledge. “‘What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States,’ Kerry said in a speech at the Peterborough Town Library. Despite pledging two weeks ago to cool his criticism of the administration once war began, Kerry unleashed a barrage of criticism as US troops fought within 25 miles of Baghdad.” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Says Us Needs Its Own ‘Regime Change,’” The Boston Globe, 4/3/03)

Flip-Flopped On Death Penalty For Terrorists

In 1996, Kerry Attacked Governor Bill Weld For Supporting Death Penalty For Terrorists. KERRY: “Your policy would amount to a terrorist protection policy. Mine would put them in jail.” (1996 Massachusetts Senate Debate, 9/16/96)

In 1996, Kerry Said, “You Can Change Your Mind On Things, But Not On Life-And-Death Issues.” (Timothy J. Connolly, “The ‘Snoozer’ Had Some Life,” Telegram & Gazette, 7/3/96)

But, In 2002, Kerry Said He Supported Death Penalty For Terrorists. KERRY: “The law of the land is the law of the land, but I have also said that I am for the death penalty for terrorists because terrorists have declared war on your country.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 12/1/02)

Flip-Flopped On No Child Left Behind

Kerry Voted For No Child Left Behind Act. (H.R. 1, CQ Vote #371: Adopted 87-10: R 44-3; D 43-6; I 0-1, 12/18/01, Kerry Voted Yea)

But Now Kerry Is Attacking No Child Left Behind As “Mockery.” “Between now and the time I’m sworn in January 2005, I’m going to use every day to make this president accountable for making a mockery of the words ‘No Child Left Behind.’” (Holly Ramer, “Kerry Wants To Make ‘Environmental Justice’ A Priority,” The Associated Press, 4/22/03)

Kerry Trashed NCLB As ‘Unfunded Mandate’ With ‘Laudable’ Goals. “Kerry referred to as an ‘unfunded mandate’ with ‘laudable’ goals. ‘Without the resources, education reform is a sham,’ Kerry said. ‘I can’t wait to crisscross this country and hold this president accountable for making a mockery of the words “no child left behind.”‘“ (Matt Leon, “Sen. Kerry In Tune With Educators,” The Patriot Ledger, 7/11/03)

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/16/04 at 8:31 am

MORE:

Flip-Flopped On Affirmative Action

In 1992, Kerry Called Affirmative Action “Inherently Limited And Divisive.” “hile praising affirmative action as ‘one kind of progress’ that grew out of civil rights court battles, Kerry said the focus on a rights-based agenda has ‘inadvertently driven most of our focus in this country not to the issue of what is happening to the kids who do not get touched by affirmative action, but … toward an inherently limited and divisive program which is called affirmative action.’ That agenda is limited, he said, because it benefits segments of black and minority populations, but not all. And it is divisive because it creates a ‘perception and a reality of reverse discrimination that has actually engendered racism.’” (Lynne Duke, “Senators Seek Serious Dialogue On Race,” The Washington Post, 4/8/92)

In 2004, Kerry Denied Ever Having Called Affirmative Action “Divisive.” CNN’s KELLY WALLACE: “We caught up with the Senator, who said he never called affirmative action divisive, and accused Clark of playing politics.” SEN. KERRY: “That’s not what I said. I said there are people who believe that. And I said mend it, don’t end it. He’s trying to change what I said, but you can go read the quote. I said very clearly I have always voted for it. I’ve always supported it. I’ve never, ever condemned it. I did what Jim Clyburn did and what Bill Clinton did, which is mend it. And Jim Clyburn wouldn’t be supporting it if it were otherwise. So let’s not have any politics here. Let’s keep the truth.” (CNN’s “Inside Politics,” 1/30/04)

Flip-Flopped On Ethanol

Kerry Twice Voted Against Tax Breaks For Ethanol. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #44: Rejected 48-52: R 11-32; D 37-20, 3/23/93, Kerry Voted Nay; S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #68: Motion Agreed To 55-43: R 2-40; D 53-3, 3/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Voted Against Ethanol Mandates. (H.R. 4624, CQ Vote #255: Motion Agreed To 51-50: R 19-25; D 31-25, 8/3/94, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Voted Twice To Increase Liability On Ethanol, Making It Equal To Regular Gasoline. (S. 517, CQ Vote #87: Motion Agreed To 57-42: R 38-10; D 18-32; I 1-0, 4/25/02 Kerry Voted Nay; S. 14, CQ Vote #208: Rejected 38-57: R 9-40; D 28-17; I 1-0, 6/5/03, Kerry Voted Yea)

On The Campaign Trail, Though, Kerry Is For Ethanol. KERRY: “I’m for ethanol, and I think it’s a very important partial ingredient of the overall mix of alternative and renewable fuels we ought to commit to.” (MSNBC/DNC, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Des Moines, IA, 11/24/03)

Flip-Flopped On Cuba Sanctions

Senator Kerry Has Long Voted Against Stronger Cuba Sanctions. (H.R. 927, CQ Vote #489, Motion Rejected 59-36: R 50-2; D 9-34, 10/17/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 955, CQ Vote #183: Rejected 38-61: R 5-49; D 33-12, 7/17/97, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1234, CQ Vote #189, Motion Agreed To 55-43: R 43-10; D 12-33, 6/30/99, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #137: Motion Agreed To 59-41: R 52-3; D 7-38, 6/20/00, Kerry Voted Nay)

In 2000, Kerry Said Florida Politics Is Only Reason Cuba Sanctions Still In Place. “Senator John F. Kerry, the Massachusetts Democrat and member of the Foreign Relations Committee, said in an interview that a reevaluation of relations with Cuba was ‘way overdue.’ ‘We have a frozen, stalemated, counterproductive policy that is not in humanitarian interests nor in our larger credibility interest in the region,’ Kerry said. … ‘It speaks volumes about the problems in the current American electoral process. … The only reason we don’t reevaluate the policy is the politics of Florida.’” (John Donnelly, “Policy Review Likely On Cuba,” The Boston Globe, 4/9/00)

Now Kerry Panders To Cuban Vote, Saying He Would Not Lift Embargo Against Cuba. TIM RUSSERT: “Would you consider lifting sanctions, lifting the embargo against Cuba?” SEN. KERRY: “Not unilaterally, not now, no.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 8/31/03)

Kerry Does Not Support “Opening Up The Embargo Wily Nilly.” “Kerry said he believes in ‘engagement’ with the communist island nation but that does not mean, ‘Open up the dialogue.’ He believes it ‘means travel and perhaps even remittances or cultural exchanges’ but he does not support ‘opening up the embargo wily nilly.’” (Daniel A. Ricker, “Kerry Says Bush Did Not Build A ‘Legitimate Coalition’ In Iraq,” The Miami Herald, 11/25/03)

Flip-Flopped On NAFTA

Kerry Voted For NAFTA. (H.R. 3450, CQ Vote #395: Passed 61-38: R 34-10; D 27-28, 11/20/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Recognized NAFTA Is Our Future. “‘NAFTA recognizes the reality of today’s economy - globalization and technology,’ Kerry said. ‘Our future is not in competing at the low-level wage job; it is in creating high-wage, new technology jobs based on our skills and our productivity.’” (John Aloysius Farrell, “Senate’s OK Finalizes NAFTA Pact,” The Boston Globe, 11/21/93)

Now, Kerry Expresses Doubt About NAFTA. “Kerry, who voted for NAFTA in 1993, expressed some doubt about the strength of free-trade agreements. ‘If it were before me today, I would vote against it because it doesn’t have environmental or labor standards in it,’ he said.” (David Lightman, “Democrats Battle For Labor’s Backing,” Hartford Courant, 8/6/03)

Flip-Flopped On Double Taxation Of Dividends

December 2002: Kerry Favored Ending Double Taxation Of Dividends. “o encourage investments in the jobs of the future - I think we should eliminate the tax on capital gains for investments in critical technology companies - zero capital gains on $100 million issuance of stock if it’s held for 5 years and has created real jobs. And we should attempt to end the double taxation of dividends.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At The City Club Of Cleveland, 12/3/02)

May 2003: Kerry Said He Opposed Ending Double Taxation Of Dividends. “Kerry also reiterated his opposition to the Republican plan to cut taxes on stock dividends. ‘This is not the time for a dividends tax cut that goes to individuals,’ he said.” (“Kerry Says Time Is On Dems’ Side,” The Associated Press, 5/8/03)

Flip-Flopped On Raising Taxes During Economic Downturn

September 2001: Said Should Not Raise Taxes In Economic Downturn. “The first priority is the economy of our nation. And when you have a downturn in the economy, the last thing you do is raise taxes or cut spending. We shouldn’t do either. We need to maintain a course that hopefully will stimulate the economy. . . . No, we should not raise taxes, but we have to put everything on the table to take a look at why we have this structural problem today. . . .ou don’t want to raise taxes.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/2/01)





We Should “Absolutely Not Raise Taxes.” “Well, I think it’s very clear what I favor because we voted for it early in the spring, which was the Democratic budget alternative that had triggers in it where you didn’t wind up spending money you don’t have. It had a smaller tax cut but more tax cut for a stimulus, which is what we need. So you ask me, what do we need now? Yes, we need additional stimulus. We should absolutely not raise taxes. We should not cut spending. What we need to do is drive the economy of this country. The economy is the number one issue. It is the most important thing we should focus on.” (CNN’s “Evans, Novak, Hunt & Shields,” 9/8/01)
 

April 2002: Said He Wanted Larger Tax Cut And Was “Not In Favor Of” Repeal. CNN’s TUCKER CARLSON: “Senator Kerry . . . et a lot of political mileage out of criticizing , but nobody has the courage to say repeal it. Are you for repealing it?” KERRY: “It’s not a question of courage. . . . And it’s not an issue right now. We passed appropriately a tax cut as a stimulus, some $40 billion. Many of us thought it should have even maybe been a little bit larger this last year … he next tax cut doesn’t take effect until 2004. If we can grow the economy enough between now and then, if we have sensible policies in place and make good choices, who knows what our choices will be. So it’s simply not a ripe issue right now. And I’m not in favor of turning around today and repealing it.” (CNN’s “Crossfire,” 4/16/02)
   
December 2002: Flip-Flopped, Would Keep Tax Cuts From Taking Effect. NBC’s TIM RUSSERT: “Senator . . . should we freeze or roll back the Bush tax cut?” KERRY: “Well, I wouldn’t take away from people who’ve already been given their tax cut … What I would not do is give any new Bush tax cuts.” … RUSSERT: “So the tax cut that’s scheduled to be implemented in the coming years …” KERRY: “No new tax cut under the Bush plan. . . . It doesn’t make economic sense.” … RUSSERT: “Now, this is a change …” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 12/1/02)
     

Called For Freeze Of Bush Tax Cuts In Favor Of Year-Long Suspension Of Payroll Taxes On First $10,000 Of Personal Income. “Kerry said Bush’s tax cuts have mainly benefited the rich while doing little for the economy. Kerry is proposing to halt Bush’s additional tax cuts and instead impose a yearlong suspension of payroll taxes on the first $10,000 of income to help the poor and middle class.” (Tyler Bridges, “Kerry Visits Miami To Start Raising Funds,” The Miami Herald, 12/7/02)


Flip-Flopped On Small Business Income Taxes

Kerry Voted Against Exempting Small Businesses And Family Farms From Clinton Income Tax Increase. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #79: Motion Agreed To 54-45: R 0-43; D 54-2, 3/25/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Three Months Later, Kerry Voted In Favor Of Proposal To Exclude Small Businesses From The Increased Income Tax. (S. 1134, CQ Vote #171: Motion Rejected 56-42: R 43-0; D 13-42, 6/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Claimed He Fought To Exempt Small Businesses From Income Tax Increases. “I worked to amend the reconciliation bill so that it would … exempt small businesses who are classified as subchapter S corporations from the increased individual income tax.” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 6/29/93, p. S 8268)

Kerry Flip-Flopped On 50-Cent Gas Tax Increase

In 1994, Kerry Backed Half-Dollar Increase In Gas Tax. “Kerry said did not accurately reflect individual lawmakers’ efforts to cut the deficit. ‘It doesn’t reflect my $43 billion package of cuts or my support for a 50-cent increase in the gas tax,’ Kerry said.” (Jill Zuckman, “Deficit-Watch Group Gives High Marks To 7 N.E. Lawmakers,” The Boston Globe, 3/1/94)

Two Years Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped. “Kerry no longer supports the 50-cent hike, nor the 25-cent hike proposed by the coalition.” (Michael Grunwald, “Kerry Gets Low Mark On Budgeting,” The Boston Globe, 4/30/96)

Flip-Flopped On Leaving Abortion Up To States

Kerry Used To Say Abortion Should Be Left Up To States. “I think the question of abortion is one that should be left for the states to decide,” Kerry said during his failed 1972 Congressional bid. (“John Kerry On The Issues,” The Sun, 10/11/72)

Now Kerry Says Abortion Is Law Of Entire Nation. “The right to choose is the law of the United States. No person has the right to infringe on that freedom. Those of us who are in government have a special responsibility to see to it that the United States continues to protect this right, as it must protect all rights secured by the constitution.” (Sen. John Kerry , Congressional Record, 1/22/85)

Flip-Flopped On Litmus Tests For Judicial Nominees

Kerry Used To Oppose Litmus Tests For Judicial Nominees. “Throughout two centuries, our federal judiciary has been a model institution, one which has insisted on the highest standards of conduct by our public servants and officials, and which has survived with undiminished respect. Today, I fear that this institution is threatened in a way that we have not seen before. … This threat is that of the appointment of a judiciary which is not independent, but narrowly ideological, through the systematic targeting of any judicial nominee who does not meet the rigid requirements of litmus tests imposed …” (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 2/3/86, p. S864)

But Now Kerry Says He Would Only Support Supreme Court Nominees Who Pledge To Uphold Roe v. Wade. “The potential retirement of Supreme Court justices makes the 2004 presidential election especially important for women, Senator John F. Kerry told a group of female Democrats yesterday, and he pledged that if elected president he would nominate to the high court only supporters of abortion rights under its Roe v. Wade decision. … ‘Any president ought to appoint people to the Supreme Court who understand the Constitution and its interpretation by the Supreme Court. In my judgment, it is and has been settled law that women, Americans, have a defined right of privacy and that the government does not make the decision with respect to choice. Individuals do.’” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Vows Court Picks To Be Abortion-Rights Supporters,” The Boston Globe, 4/9/03)

Flip-Flopped On Federal Health Benefits

In 1993, Kerry Expressed Doubts That Federal Employees Health Benefits System Worked Well. “Hillary Rodham Clinton today offered a fresh description of one of the most confusing elements of the Administration health care plan, the health insurance purchasing alliances, saying they would let all Americans choose coverage in the way members of Congress do. … Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, said he was not sure that the Federal program worked all that well.” (Adam Clymer, “Hillary Clinton Says Health Plan Will Be Familiar,” The New York Times, 12/8/93)

Kerry Expressed Personal Dissatisfaction With His Coverage Through Federal Program. “Earlier this month, when Hillary Rodham Clinton came to Boston and vowed that average Americans would get as good coverage as that enjoyed by their senators and representatives, Sen. John F. Kerry told Clinton that he thought the country could do better. The Massachusetts Democrat said he was thinking, among other recent disasters, of his $500 dental bill for treatment of an abscessed tooth. ‘Because it was done in the dentist’s office, rather than the hospital, they didn’t cover it. So they were urging me to go spend twice as much in a hospital,’ said Kerry, who is covered by BACE, the Beneficial Association of Capitol Employees.” (Ana Puga, “Lawmakers Talk Health Care,” The Boston Globe, 12/19/93)

Now, On Campaign Trail, Kerry Is Enthusiastic About Health Care He Receives As Senator. “As a U.S. Senator, I could get the best health care in the world. Most people aren’t so lucky, and we need to change that. That’s why my plan gives every American access to the same kind of health care that members of Congress give themselves. … Because your family’s health care is just as important as any politicians’ in Washington.” (Sen. John Kerry, “Affordable Health Care For All Americans,” Remarks At Mercy Medical, Cedar Rapids, IA, 12/14/03)

Kerry: “I’m Going To Make Available To Every American The Same Health Care Plan That Senators And Congressmen Give Themselves …” (Sen. John Kerry, AARP Democrat Candidate Debate, Bedford, NH, 11/18/03)

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/16/04 at 8:42 am

And one last long list of flip-flops:

And finally one more time:


Flip-Flopped On Medical Marijuana

Kerry Said His “Personal Disposition Is Open To The Issue Of Medical Marijuana.” “Aaron Houston of the Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana said that just a month ago Mr. Kerry seemed to endorse medical marijuana use, and when asked about the content of his mysterious study, said, ‘I am trying to find out. I don’t know.’ Mr. Kerry did say his ‘personal disposition is open to the issue of medical marijuana’ and that he’d stop Drug Enforcement Administration raids on patients using the stuff under California’s medical marijuana law.” (Jennifer Harper, “Inside Politics,” The Washington Times, 8/8/03)

But Now Kerry Says He Wants To Wait For Study Analyzing Issue Before Making Final Decision. “The Massachusetts Democrat said Wednesday he’d put off any final decision on medical marijuana because there’s ‘a study under way analyzing what the science is.’” (Jennifer Harper, “Inside Politics,” The Washington Times, 8/8/03)

Flip-Flopped On Burma Sanctions

In 1995, Kerry Was Against Burma Sanctions. “‘I question whether isolation is a successful means of promoting political change,’ Kerry told a constituent in a 1995 letter justifying his opposition to a Burma sanction bill.” (Geeta Anand, et al., “Menino Gets Ahead Of Himself, Starts Contemplating Third Term,” The Boston Globe, 5/18/97)

But Now Kerry Supports Burma Sanctions. “In his 1996 reelection campaign, Kerry, after Governor William F. Weld took up the cause, was badgered by advisers into shifting his position. But as he eyes a presidential campaign and the Burma sanction movement gains credibility, Kerry … describes the Burma regime as a ‘semi-criminalized dictatorship … which should not be treated with respect by other nations, but should be instead subject to limitations on travel, investment, and access to the most developed nations.’” (Geeta Anand, et al., “Menino Gets Ahead Of Himself, Starts Contemplating Third Term,” The Boston Globe, 5/18/97)


Flip-Flopped On PACs

Kerry Used To Decry “Special Interests And Their PAC Money.” “‘I’m frequently told by cynics in Washington that refusing PAC money is naive,’ Kerry told his supporters in 1985. ‘Do you agree that it is “naïve” to turn down special interests and their PAC money?’” (Glen Johnson, “In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A PAC,” The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

But Now, Kerry Has Established His Own PAC. “A week after repeating that he has refused to accept donations from political action committees, Senator John F. Kerry announced yesterday that he was forming a committee that would accept PAC money for him to distribute to other Democratic candidates. … Kerry’s stance on soft money, unregulated donations funneled through political parties, puts him in the position of raising the type of money that he, McCain, and others in the campaign-finance reform movement are trying to eliminate.” (Glen Johnson, “In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A PAC,” The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)

Flip-Flopped On $10,000 Donation Limit To His PAC

When Kerry Established His PAC In 2001, He Instituted A $10,000 Limit On Donations. “A week after repeating that he has refused to accept donations from political action committees, Senator John F. Kerry announced yesterday that he was forming a committee that would accept PAC money for him to distribute to other Democratic candidates … The statement also declared that the new PAC would voluntarily limit donations of so-called soft money to $10,000 per donor per year and disclose the source and amount of all such donations.” (Glen Johnson, “In A Switch, Kerry Is Launching A Pac,” The Boston Globe, 12/15/01)



One Year Later, Kerry Started Accepting Unlimited Contributions. “Senator John F. Kerry, who broke with personal precedent last year when he established his first political action committee, has changed his fund-raising guidelines again, dropping a $10,000 limit on contributions from individuals, a cap he had touted when establishing the PAC. The Massachusetts Democrat said yesterday he decided to accept unlimited contributions, which has already allowed him to take in ‘soft money’ donations as large as $25,000, because of the unprecedented fund-raising demands confronting him as a leader in the Senate Democratic caucus.” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Shifts Fund-Raising Credo For His Own PAC,” The Boston Globe, 10/4/02)

Flip-Flopped On Using Personal Funds In 1996 Race

In 1996, Kerry And Weld Established $500,000 Limit Of Personal Wealth To Be Used In Senate Campaign. “In 1996, Kerry and Weld gave their already noteworthy Senate race added significance by establishing a spending cap. The candidates agreed to spend no more than $6.9 million from July 1 through the election. Weld ended up spending $6.6 million and Kerry $6.3 million. One key element of the agreement limited the candidates to spending $500,000 in personal wealth, a clause Weld favored because Kerry is married to a millionaire, Teresa Heinz.” (Glen Johnson, “In Kerry’s Plan For A Pac, The Resolution Of Opposites,” The Boston Globe, 12/18/01)

Kerry Broke Agreement By Spending $1.2 Million Over Limit. “ost-election reports showed a last-minute infusion of $1.7 million from Kerry’s wife, heiress Teresa Heinz. … erry denied that his campaign violated its agreement. The money had been loaned--not contributed--by his wife, he explained. ‘There was nothing in the agreement that restricted us from taking a loan … and we paid it back in $1,000 and $2,000 chunks.’” (“Global Ecology Lobby Rocked By Defection,” Political Finance, The Newsletter, 1/02)

Flip-Flopped On Israel Security Fence

October 2003: Kerry Calls Fence “Barrier To Peace.” “And I know how disheartened Palestinians are by the Israeli government’s decision to build a barrier off the green line, cutting deeply into Palestinian areas. We do not need another barrier to peace. Provocative and counterproductive measures only harm Israel’s security over the long- term, they increase hardships to the Palestinian people, and they make the process of negotiating an eventual settlement that much harder.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks Before Arab American Institute National Leadership Conference, Dearborn, MI, 10/17/03)

February 2004: Kerry Calls Fence “Legitimate Act Of Self-Defense.” “US Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the frontrunner in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, described Israel’s construction of a security barrier as a ‘legitimate act of self defense’ after Sunday’s suicide bombing in Jerusalem, clarifying a position he took in October when he told an Arab American audience, ‘We don’t need another barrier to peace.’” (Janine Zacharia, “Kerry Defends Security Fence,” The Jerusalem Post, 2/25/04)

Flip-Flop-Flipped On Ballistic Missile Defense

Kerry Called For Cancellation Of Missile Defense Systems In 1984 And Has Voted Against Funding For Missile Defense At Least 53 Times Between 1985 And 2000. (“John Kerry On The Defense Budget,” Campaign Position Paper, John Kerry For U.S. Senate, 1984; S. 1160, CQ Vote #99: Rejected 21-78: R 2-50; D 19-28, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #100: Rejected 38-57: R 6-45; D 32-12, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #101: Rejected 36-59: R 1-49; D 35-10, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1160, CQ Vote #103: Rejected 33-62: R 28-22; D 5-40, 6/4/85, Kerry Voted Nay; H.J. Res. 465, CQ Vote #365: Motion Agreed To 64-32: R 49-2; D 15-30, 12/10/85, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4515, CQ Vote #122: Ruled Non-Germane 45-47: R 7-42; D 38-5, 6/6/86, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2638, CQ Vote #176: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 41-11; D 9-38, 8/5/86, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2638, CQ Vote #177: Rejected 49-50: R 10-42; D 39-8, 8/5/86, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1174, CQ Vote #248: Motion Agreed To 58-38: R 8-37; D 50-1, 9/17/87, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1174, CQ Vote #259: Motion Agreed To 51-50: R 37-9; D 13-41, With Vice President Bush Casting An “ Yea “ Vote, 9/22/87, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #124: Motion Agreed To 66-29: R 38-6; D 28-23, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #125: Motion Agreed To 50-46: R 38-7; D 12-39, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #126: Motion Rejected 47-50: R 38-6; D 9-44, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2355, CQ Vote #128: Motion Rejected 48-50: R 6-39; D 42-11, 5/11/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2355, CQ Vote #136: Motion Agreed To 56-37: R 9-34; D 47-3, 5/13/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2355, CQ Vote #137: Motion Agreed To 51-43: R 38-5; D 13-38, 5/13/88, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4264, CQ Vote #251: Motion Rejected 35-58: R 35-9; D 0-49, 7/14/88, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4781, CQ Vote #296: Motion Agreed To 50-44: R 5-39; D 45-5, 8/5/88, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1352, CQ Vote #148: Motion Agreed To 50-47: R 37-6; D 13-41, 7/27/89, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #202: Rejected 34-66: R 27-18; D 7-48, 9/26/89, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 3072, CQ Vote #213: Adopted 53-47: R 39-6; D 14-41, 9/28/89, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2884, CQ Vote #223: Adopted 54-44: R 2-42; D 52-2, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 2884, CQ Vote #225: Motion Agreed To 56-41: R 39-4; D 17-37, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2884, CQ Vote #226: Motion Agreed To 54-43: R 37-6; D 17-37, 8/4/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3189, CQ Vote #273: Passed 79-16: R 37-5; D 42-11, 10/15/90, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 5803, CQ Vote #319: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 4739, CQ Vote #320: Adopted 80-17: R 37-6; D 43-11, 10/26/90, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #168: Rejected 39-60: R 4-39; D 35-21, 7/31/91, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1507, CQ Vote #171: Motion Agreed To 60-38: R 40-3; D 20-35, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #172: Motion Agreed To 64-34: R 39-4; D 25-30, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1507, CQ Vote #173: Rejected 46-52: R 5-38; D 41-14, 8/1/91, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 2521, CQ Vote #207: Motion Agreed To 50-49: R 38-5; D 12-44, 9/25/91, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2403, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 61-38: R 7-36; D 54-2, 5/6/92, Kerry Voted Yea; H.R. 4990, CQ Vote #108: Adopted 90-9: R 34-9; D 56-0, 5/21/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #182: Motion Rejected 43-49: R 34-5; D 9-44, 8/7/92, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3114, CQ Vote #214: Rejected 48-50: R 5-38; D 43-12, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 3114, CQ Vote #215: Adopted 52-46: R 39-4; D 13-42, 9/17/92, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 5504, CQ Vote #228: Adopted 89-4: R 36-4; D 53-0, 9/22/92, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1298, CQ Vote #251: Adopted 50-48: R 6-36; D 44-12, 9/9/93, Kerry Voted Yea; S. Con. Res. 63, CQ Vote #64: Rejected 40-59: R 2-42; D 38-17, 3/22/94, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1026, CQ Vote #354: Motion Agreed To 51-48: R 47-6; D 4-42, 8/3/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1087, CQ Vote #384: Rejected 45-54: R 5-49; D 40-5, 8/10/95, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1087, CQ Vote #397: Passed 62-35: R 48-4; D 14-31, 9/5/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1530, CQ Vote #399: Passed 64-34: R 50-3; D 14-31, 9/6/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 2126, CQ Vote #579: Adopted 59-39: R 48-5; D 11-34, 11/16/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1530, CQ Vote #608: Adopted 51-43: R 47-2; D 4-41, 12/19/95, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1635, CQ Vote #157: Rejected 53-46: R 52-0; D 1-46, 6/4/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1745, CQ Vote #160: Rejected 44-53: R 4-49; D 40-4, 6/19/96, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1745, CQ Vote #187: Passed 68-31: R 50-2; D 18-29, 7/10/96, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 936, CQ Vote #171: Rejected 43-56: R 2-53; D 41-3, 7/11/97, Kerry Voted Yea; S. 1873, CQ Vote #131: Motion Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 5/13/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1873, CQ Vote #262: Motion Rejected 59-41: R 55-0; D 4-41, 9/9/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 2549, CQ Vote #178: Motion Agreed To 52-48: R 52-3; D 0-45, 7/13/00, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Then Claimed To Support Missile Defense. “I support the development of an effective defense against ballistic missiles that is deployed with maximum transparency and consultation with U.S. allies and other major powers. If there is a real potential of a rogue nation firing missiles at any city in the United States, responsible leadership requires that we make our best, most thoughtful efforts to defend against that threat. The same is true of accidental launch. If it were to happen, no leader could ever explain not having chosen to defend against the disaster when doing so made sense.” (Peace Action Website, “Where Do The Candidates Stand On Foreign Policy?” http://www.peace-action.org/2004/Kerry.html, Accessed 3/10/04)

Now Kerry Campaign Says He Will Defund Missile Defense. FOX NEWS’ MAJOR GARRETT: “Kerry would not say how much all of this would cost. A top military adviser said the Massachusetts Senator would pay for some of it by stopping all funds to deploy a national ballistic missile defense system, one that Kerry doesn’t believe will work.” KERRY ADVISOR RAND BEERS: “He would not go forward at this time because there is not a proof of concept.” (Fox News’ “Special Report,” 3/17/03)

Flip-Flopped On 1991 Iraq War Coalition

At The Time, Kerry Questioned Strength Of 1991 Coalition. “I keep hearing from people, ‘Well, the coalition is fragile, it won’t stay together,’ and my response to that is, if the coalition is so fragile, then what are the vital interests and what is it that compels us to risk our young American’s lives if the others aren’t willing to stay the … course of peace? … I voted against the president, I’m convinced we’re doing this the wrong way …” (CBS’ “This Morning,” 1/16/91)

Now Kerry Has Nothing But Praise For 1991 Coalition. SEN. JOHN KERRY: “In my speech on the floor of the Senate I made it clear, you are strongest when you act with other nations. All presidents, historically, his father, George Herbert Walker Bush, did a brilliant job of building a legitimate coalition and even got other people to help pay for the war.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 1/11/04)

Flip-Flopped On View Of War On Terror

Kerry Said War On Terror Is “Basically A Manhunt.” “Kerry was asked about Bush’s weekend appearance on ‘Meet the Press’ when he called himself a ‘war president.’ The senator, who watched the session, remarked: ‘The war on terrorism is a very different war from the way the president is trying to sell it to us. It’s a serious challenge, and it is a war of sorts, but it is not the kind of war they’re trying to market to America.’ Kerry characterized the war on terror as predominantly an intelligence-gathering and law enforcement operation. ‘It’s basically a manhunt,’ he said. ‘You gotta know who they are, where they are, what they’re planning, and you gotta be able to go get ‘em before they get us.’” (Katherine M. Skiba, “Bush, Kerry Turn Focus To Each Other,” Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 2/13/04)

Two Weeks Later, Kerry Flip-Flopped, Saying War On Terror Is More Than “A Manhunt”. “This war isn’t just a manhunt – a checklist of names from a deck of cards. In it, we do not face just one man or one terrorist group. We face a global jihadist movement of many groups, from different sources, with separate agendas, but all committed to assaulting the United States and free and open societies around the globe.” (Sen. John Kerry, Remarks At University Of California At Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA, 2/27/04)

Flip-Flopped On Funding For Our Troops In Iraq

Kerry Pledged To Fund Reconstruction With “Whatever Number” Of Dollars It Took. NBC’S TIM RUSSERT: “Do you believe that we should reduce funding that we are now providing for the operation in Iraq?” SEN. JOHN KERRY: “No. I think we should increase it.” RUSSERT: “Increase funding?” KERRY: “Yes.” RUSSERT: “By how much?” KERRY: “By whatever number of billions of dollars it takes to win. It is critical that the United States of America be successful in Iraq, Tim.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 8/31/03)

Then Kerry Voted Against Senate Passage Of Iraq/Afghanistan Reconstruction Package. “Passage of the bill that would appropriate $86.5 billion in fiscal 2004 supplemental spending for military operations and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill would provide $10.3 billion as a grant to rebuild Iraq, including $5.1 billion for security and $5.2 billion for reconstruction costs. It also would provide $10 billion as a loan that would be converted to a grant if 90 percent of all bilateral debt incurred by the former Iraqi regime of Saddam Hussein has been forgiven by other countries. Separate provisions limit reconstruction aid to $18.4 billion. It also would provide approximately $65.6 billion for military operations and maintenance and $1.3 billion for veterans medical care.” (S. 1689, CQ Vote #400: Passed 87-12: R 50-0; D 37-11; I 0-1, 10/17/03, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Later Claimed: “I Actually Did Vote For The $87 Billion Before I Voted Against It.” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Blasts Bush On Protecting Troops,” The Boston Globe, 3/17/04)

Flip-Flopped On Tapping Strategic Petroleum Reserve

In February 2000, Kerry Said Release Of Oil From Strategic Petroleum Reserve Would Not Be “Relevant.” “Without being specific, Kerry, a key member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, suggested the US could retaliate economically in other trade areas. He also said he does not want a release of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. A release ‘is not relevant. It would take months for the oil to get to the market,’ he said.” (Cathy Landry, “US Energy Chief Warns Of Gasoline Crisis,” Platt’s Oilgram News, 2/17/00)

Now, In March 2004, Kerry Called For Stop In Filling Strategic Petroleum Reserve To Reduce Prices. “Kerry would pressure oil-producing nations to increase production and temporarily suspend filling the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve, according to campaign documents. ... ‘The Bush administration has put the SPR fill program on automatic pilot without regard to the short-term effect on the US market,’ the campaign documents said. ‘The program needs better management ... Kerry would temporarily suspend filling SPR until oil prices return to normal levels.’” (Patricia Wilson, “Kerry To Offer Plan To Reduce Record Gasoline Prices,” Reuters, 3/29/04)

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: philbo on 07/16/04 at 9:26 am

I still find it hard to comprehend that some people think that this is somehow more of a problem than, say, illegally invading a foreign country, holding suspects without charge for years, that sort of thing...  It takes an incredibly distorted view to consider changing ones mind (or being unable to give a view because of lack of information, which is what nearly all the examples I read in that remarkably pointless list above seemed to boil down to) to be somehow *worse* that the behavoiur of Bush et al.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: danootaandme on 07/16/04 at 10:38 am

Yes, GW I am from Massachusetts, and that gives me a perspective on the two people we have to vote on.  Lest
you forget, they are both from old Yankee families, though bush much more ingrained into the fabric of the "400". 
Both spent their formative years in elite private schools here in Massachusetts. georgie, had the luxury
of spending his summers on the family owned island in Maine.  Calling yourself a Texan doesn't make you one, and
bushes are as New England Yankee as they come.  Like it or not, no matter which you vote for  you are voting for
a Massachusetts man.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Rice_Cube on 07/16/04 at 11:10 am


Can someone please explain to me why changing your mind on something when you're given additional information "flip-flopping"?  IMO, it's not "flip-flopping", it's "changing your mind" ::)


I don't see it that way unfortunately...the information was the same, it's just that he flipflopped to curry voters.

Politicians do that all the time.  Look at W trying to get the Hispanic vote.

HAHAHAHA!  Like he could ever get the Hispanic vote :P

PS:  Yale is in New Haven, Connecticut.  Harvard is in Cambridge, Massachusetts, right across the river from MIT.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/16/04 at 12:32 pm





Politicians do that all the time.  Look at W trying to get the Hispanic vote.

HAHAHAHA!  Like he could ever get the Hispanic vote :P



No way he will win the majority of hispanic vote, but he is currently getting more support from them then in 2000.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: ChuckyG on 07/16/04 at 1:07 pm





Okay you are WRONG.  First off Bush was born in Connecticut (I know you didn't say he was born in Massachusetts.)  Bush has spent the vast majority of his life in Texas and the south.  Has Kerry?  Nope.  You can call Bush a texan for spending most of his life in Texas, a person from Connecticut since he was born there.  A person from Mass.?  Nope he is not a Massachusetts' man just because he was educated there (if that is true.)  And just because you are from that horrible state doesn't make your opinion better then anyone elses.


I'm not even going to remark on the Massachusetts comments, since they're pretty stupid and ill informed.

GW however most of his formative years in Mass. though, at a private boarding school Phillips Academy (Andover) and then went to Conn. for college and then Mass. again, his family spends most of their leisure time in Maine.  He's very much a New England man whether you like it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush#Personal_life_and_education

If you want to claim him for Texas, I'm sure most people in New England would be more than welcome to let him be called that (with the possible exception of the New Hampshire people, they probably miss his Sunday beer runs from his college days). 

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Mushroom on 07/16/04 at 2:17 pm



I will probably vote for him....I will NOT vote for Kerry...isn't it funny how the topic starts with kerry and turns into a Bush-bash ::) I noticed the same thing happen in a topic that was supposed to be about "Killer" Ted kennedy... ??? :P


That's because people who can't defend themselves or their position have to attack.  It is a lesson well learned from Clinton.

Being accused of molestation?  Attack.
Being accused of attempted rape?  Attack.
Being impeached?  Attack another country.

THIS is how I tell how partaisin people in here are.  Myself, when Cheny did his bone-headed "F- You", I did not hide behind other things, I said he was wrong.  When Rush got busted for drugs, I simply said "That sucks, I hope he is getting help."

Some people though, see ANY comment on "their views" as an attack, and have to attack back.  If there is nothing to attack, they make something up or bring in a different subject.

As for Kennedy not being a killer, a rumor hanging around as long as I can remember is that Mary Jo was pregnant.  But I did not bring it up, because I did not want to open THAT can of worms.  It is sad that others around here can't keep on topic and show some restraint sometimes.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Mushroom on 07/16/04 at 2:43 pm


It wasn't suppose to be this way, democrats chances of winning back the white house go from so-so right down to zero.  Teresa's ''got the bucks'' production presents John Forbes Kerry in the role he was destined for in ''Dawn of the brain-dead candidate.''

John Kerry: I voted for it, before I voted against it.


One of my favourite "lawyer lines" comes from a 1985 movie, "Rustler's Rhapsody".  In it, Tom Berringer is a good cowboy, and he has to face somebody who he thinks is also a good cowboy (who happens to have been a lawyer before becomming a cowboy).  After the other cowboy shoots him, Tom's character (Rex) looks at him in shock, and the following dialog occurs:

Rex O'Herlihan: You're not a good guy at all!
Bob Barber: Of course I'm not a good guy, I'm a lawyer you idiot!

;D

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/16/04 at 4:13 pm

GREG PALAST MAKES A GOOD POINT HERE:

GIVE IT BACK, GEORGE:  THE LAY LOOT THAT BOUGHT WHITE HOUSE
Bush and Republicans Should Give Up Ill-Gotten Gains
by Greg Palast


When the feds swoop down and cuff racketeers, they also load the vans with all
the perp's ill-gotten gains: stacks of cash, BMWs, whatever. Their associates
have to cough up the goodies too: lady friends must give up their diamond rocks.

Under the racketeering law, RICO, even before a verdict, anything bought with
the proceeds of the crime goes into the public treasury.

But there seems to be special treatment afforded those who loaded up on the
'bennies' of Ken Lay's crimes. If the G-men don't know where the tainted loot is
cached, try this address: 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Ask for George or dip.

Ken Lay and his Enron team are the Number One political career donors to George
W. Bush. Mr. Lay and his Mrs., with no money to pay back bilked creditors, still
managed to personally put up $100,000 for George's inaugural Ball plus $793,110
for personal donations to Republicans. Lay's Enron team dropped $4.2 million
into the party that let Enron party.

OK now, Mr. President, give it back - the millions stuffed in the pockets of the
Republican campaign kitty stolen from his Enron retirees.

And what else did Ken Lay buy with the money stolen from California electricity
customers? Answer: the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Just before George
Bush moved to Washington, Kenny-Boy handed his hand-picked president-to-be the
name of the man Ken wanted as Chairman of the commission charged with
investigating Enron's thievery. In a heartbeat, George Bush appointed Ken's boy,
Pat Wood.

Think about that: the criminal gets to pick the police chief. Well, George, give
it back. Dump Wood and end the "de-criminalization" of electricity price-gouging
that you and Cheney and Wood laughably call "de-regulation." Give us back the
government Lay bought with crime cash.

And while we're gathering up the ill-gotten loot, let's stop by Brother Jeb's.
The Governor of Florida picked up a cool $2 million from a Houston fundraiser at
the home of Enron's former president long AFTER the company went bankrupt.
Enron, not incidentally, obtained half a billion of Florida state pension money
-- which has now disappeared down the Enron rat-hole.

And Mr. Vice-President, don't you also have something to give back? In secret
meetings with dip Cheney in the Veep's bunker prior to the inauguration and
after, you let Ken and his cohorts secretly draft the nation's energy plan -
taking a short break to eye oil field maps of Iraq. Let us remember that the
President's sticky-fingered brothers Neil and Marvin were on Enron's payroll,
hired to sell pipelines to the Saudis. The Saudis didn't bite, but maybe a
captive Iraq would be more pliant.

So, Mr. Law and Order President, please follow the law and give up the Energy
Plan that Mr. Lay bought with other people's money.

When I worked as a racketeering investigator for government, nothing was spared,
including houses bought with purloined loot. Let there be no exception here.
It's time to tape up the White House gate and hang the sign: "Crime Scene:
Property to be Confiscated. Vacate Premises Immediately."




Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/16/04 at 4:22 pm




That's because people who can't defend themselves or their position have to attack.  It is a lesson well learned from Clinton.


Yeah, that's why Republicans DIDN'T spend all eight years of Clinton's presidency on a relentless capmapign of attack.
That's why Newt Gingrich DIDN'T send out memos saying Republicans need to start calling Democrats sick, perverted and demented.
That's why Rush Limburger and all those other righty-right pundits DON'T devote hours and hours every day to pounding on Dems and Liberals for every little misstep they make.
That's why said pundits DON'T report bogus rumors about politicians they don't like.
That's why...oh, forget it!

GWBush wrote: Okay you are WRONG.  First off Bush was born in Connecticut
Daddy Bush was born in Massachusetts.  George W. wasn't born, he was hatched.
See here, when you ripped all those Kerry flip-flop statistics from whatever right-wing website, I suppose you would have us all take them at face value.  Sigh.  I mean, you get thse ridiculous inflated numbers from the Bush people like, "Kerry voted to raise taxes 350 times."  Now, that includes ALL the times Kerry voted to leave taxes unchanged AND all the times Kerry voted for an alternative tax cut.  In other words, whenever Kerry, as a Democrat, DID NOT follow unswervingly the Republican calls for tax cuts, the Bush people count it as Kerry affirmatively voting for a tax increase.  Nonsense.
Also the statistic chanted by the Righty pundits that Kerry is the most liberal, and Edwards is the fourth most liberal, member of congress (I wish!) is so distorted it is meaningless.  By the National Journal's own figures, if you measure Kerry and Edwards in years, not just a select month or two, you come out with both of them being moderate and centrist.
Well, of course they are.  Paul Wellestone

God rest his soul  :\'(

was a leftist liberal senator.  Sheila Jackson Lee is a leftist liberal Representative.  Kerry and Edwards are obviously NOT far left liberals, and anyone who watches their rhetoric and actions knows that.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: CatwomanofV on 07/16/04 at 4:29 pm




I'm not even going to remark on the Massachusetts comments, since they're pretty stupid and ill informed.

GW however most of his formative years in Mass. though, at a private boarding school Phillips Academy (Andover) and then went to Conn. for college and then Mass. again, his family spends most of their leisure time in Maine.  He's very much a New England man whether you like it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush#Personal_life_and_education

If you want to claim him for Texas, I'm sure most people in New England would be more than welcome to let him be called that (with the possible exception of the New Hampshire people, they probably miss his Sunday beer runs from his college days). 





http://users.pandora.be/eforum/emoticons4u/happy/1074.gif




Cat

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Don Carlos on 07/16/04 at 4:54 pm


Can someone please explain to me why changing your mind on something when you're given additional information "flip-flopping"?  IMO, it's not "flip-flopping", it's "changing your mind" ::)


Well Cheer, its sort of like what Ben Franklyn said about rebellions, in the third person, as in their rebellion, its terrorisn.  In the first person, as Our rebellion, its a reasonable response to repression.  So when "my" candidate changes his mind. The one I don't like "flip-Flops".

If you check the dates on GWB's long list, assuming (risky) that it is accurate, yoiu will see that most of the changes are seperated by a number of years, in some cases over 10.  So what he is really demonstrating is that Kerry is thinking, learning, and his positions are evolving.  If that's flip-flopping, than it must be a good thing.

On the other hand, Lil' Georgie really DOES flip-flop in that he promises one thing and does the opposite, but I would prefer to call that lying.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Don Carlos on 07/16/04 at 5:01 pm





Okay you are WRONG.  First off Bush was born in Connecticut (I know you didn't say he was born in Massachusetts.)  Bush has spent the vast majority of his life in Texas and the south.  Has Kerry?  Nope.  You can call Bush a texan for spending most of his life in Texas, a person from Connecticut since he was born there.  A person from Mass.?  Nope he is not a Massachusetts' man just because he was educated there (if that is true.)  And just because you are from that horrible state doesn't make your opinion better then anyone elses.


I'm not from the great state of Massachusetts but I resent your calling ANY state in the union "horrible" just as I resent your constantly calling me a Democrat.  Your arrogance seems to know no end.  Seems to me you own everyone on this board an apology, big time.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Don Carlos on 07/16/04 at 5:19 pm




That's because people who can't defend themselves or their position have to attack.  It is a lesson well learned from Clinton.

Being accused of molestation?  Attack.
Being accused of attempted rape?  Attack.
Being impeached?  Attack another country.

THIS is how I tell how partaisin people in here are.  Myself, when Cheny did his bone-headed "F- You", I did not hide behind other things, I said he was wrong.  When Rush got busted for drugs, I simply said "That sucks, I hope he is getting help."

Some people though, see ANY comment on "their views" as an attack, and have to attack back.  If there is nothing to attack, they make something up or bring in a different subject.

As for Kennedy not being a killer, a rumor hanging around as long as I can remember is that Mary Jo was pregnant.  But I did not bring it up, because I did not want to open THAT can of worms.  It is sad that others around here can't keep on topic and show some restraint sometimes.


While I'm not confortable with the metaphore, have you ever heard of "the pot calling the kettle black"?

First, lets recognize that (as much as I hate to admit it, since I am) politicians are human.  They all make mistakes, although some are more costly than others (ie Clinton couldn't keep his zipper up - nobody died.  Bush made a mistake on Iraq - 800+ US troops & uncounted Iraqis dead).

Some alter their positions over time, some do not, usually depending on the strength of their ideological commitment, but sometimes for "partisan" advantage.

For me, at least, when someone makes an accusation that seems to focus on only one politician while exonerating, or at least ignoring similar transgressions of other politicians, that needs to be corrected.  As far as I'm concerned, they're all a bunch of snake oil salesmen.  The question is, which has the best brand for me.  But the point is that they are all guilty of the same practices.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Don Carlos on 07/16/04 at 5:26 pm



You made a good point...YOU are able to admit when someone you support does something wrong.  Others, however, are not capable of doing so.  What some have done in this thread is the same thing others have done in other threads.  In regards to the "Cheney incident", they immediately referred to Kerry "allegedly" flipping the bird and "cursing" as well or simply changed the subject instead of immediately stepping up to the plate and saying "yeah, he f'd up".


Well put - I had forgotten that.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/16/04 at 5:32 pm




Well Cheer, its sort of like what Ben Franklyn said about rebellions, in the third person, as in their rebellion, its terrorisn.  In the first person, as Our rebellion, its a reasonable response to repression.  So when "my" candidate changes his mind. The one I don't like "flip-Flops".

If you check the dates on GWB's long list, assuming (risky) that it is accurate, yoiu will see that most of the changes are seperated by a number of years, in some cases over 10.  So what he is really demonstrating is that Kerry is thinking, learning, and his positions are evolving.  If that's flip-flopping, than it must be a good thing.

On the other hand, Lil' Georgie really DOES flip-flop in that he promises one thing and does the opposite, but I would prefer to call that lying.

When you put together a list of Bush's political hypocrisy, his defenders just say, "the American people aren't interested in that."

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: danootaandme on 07/16/04 at 5:40 pm

I'm  back to support what I said.  Yes, george was born in Connecticut, but his schooling was at Phillips Andover where he lived for 9 months out of the year, then the summer months in Maine on Walkers Island, the family owned island.  I believe I that during the 1st bush administration it was found that the bushes in Texas never owned any property in Texas, they rented.  They bought when it became politically expedient.  I didn't say my opinion was better, I said a had a perspective into the different aspects of the old Yankee Establishment that comes with being a third generation New Englander and having worked in very close proximity to those with names like Endicott, Lawrence, Lowell, Forbes, etc.  One hundred years ago the bushes would have been called carpetbaggers, today you treat them like heroes.  Go figure.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Don Carlos on 07/16/04 at 5:57 pm


I'm  back to support what I said.  Yes, george was born in Connecticut, but his schooling was at Phillips Andover where he lived for 9 months out of the year, then the summer months in Maine on Walkers Island, the family owned island.  I believe I that during the 1st bush administration it was found that the bushes in Texas never owned any property in Texas, they rented.  They bought when it became politically expedient.  I didn't say my opinion was better, I said a had a perspective into the different aspects of the old Yankee Establishment that comes with being a third generation New Englander and having worked in very close proximity to those with names like Endicott, Lawrence, Lowell, Forbes, etc.  One hundred years ago the bushes would have been called carpetbaggers, today you treat them like heroes.  Go figure.


Lill' Georgie adopted Texas when he discovered that he could avoid service in Vietnan through the NMational Guard, and that was reinforced when the Saudis, including the Bin Ladins, filled all the dry holes he drilled with $$$.  He became a "christian" to get votes.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: CatwomanofV on 07/16/04 at 7:10 pm




Lill' Georgie adopted Texas when he discovered that he could avoid service in Vietnan through the NMational Guard, and that was reinforced when the Saudis, including the Bin Ladins, filled all the dry holes he drilled with $$$.  He became a "christian" to get votes.


You forget that Texas doesn't have a state income tax.



Cat

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: danootaandme on 07/17/04 at 6:43 am

Actually, poppy went to Texas first, I'm not sure what the reasoning was, but started out on his own, with
just a couple of million of his daddy prescotts money.  He was a miserable at business as his son.  His
love of Texas did not include trust in the educational system so he sent all of his children back east for their educations. 

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Don Carlos on 07/17/04 at 3:18 pm




You forget that Texas doesn't have a state income tax.



Cat


It doesn't need 1, it provides no services to its people.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Don Carlos on 07/17/04 at 3:20 pm


Actually, poppy went to Texas first, I'm not sure what the reasoning was, but started out on his own, with
just a couple of million of his daddy prescotts money.  He was a miserable at business as his son.  His
love of Texas did not include trust in the educational system so he sent all of his children back east for their educations. 


Yes, that's right.  Read "Fortunate Son" can't remember the author's name, and Kevin Phillips' American Dynasty.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/17/04 at 3:24 pm




It doesn't need 1, it provides no services to its people.


I have no idea if that is true or not, but if Texas was so horrible it wouldn't be the second most populated state.  Besides plenty of states don't have a state income/sales/property tax.  Tennessee is another example, so is Alaska, and more I don't feel like looking up.  I know liberals love taking peoples' money, so to each state its own.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: danootaandme on 07/17/04 at 4:39 pm

I don't believe, or mean to imply that Texas is a horrible place.  I do believe that if you move
somewhere, you should do just that.  I live, work, and avail myself of the services offered to
taxpayers in Massachusetts, the state in which I live. When poppy bush moved to Texas he
should have done the same, including trusting Texas to educate his children.  I have friends
who whined on and on about Massachusetts and taxes, liberals etc.,etc.  A few packed up
and moved to New Hampshire, then drove to Massachusetts to work, and drove to
Massachusetts for the hospitals, and sent their children to Massachusetts colleges.  I said
the same thing to them, if you hate it so much, go.  If you love it where you are so much, stay. 
You're welcome to visit anytime, but please don't make it a habit, and stop the whining.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: CatwomanofV on 07/17/04 at 6:58 pm

I could make several comments about Texas-I used to live there for seven LONG years. But I will refrain.




Cat

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/18/04 at 12:06 am





I have no idea if that is true or not, but if Texas was so horrible it wouldn't be the second most populated state.  Besides plenty of states don't have a state income/sales/property tax.  Tennessee is another example, so is Alaska, and more I don't feel like looking up.  I know liberals love taking peoples' money, so to each state its own.

All politicians want to take your money.  Conservatives these days want to use poor and middle class peoples' money to subsidize tax cuts for the very rich.  They also want to keep siphoning funds away from social programs and pouring it through the Pentagon sieve.  Your comment about Texas is completely illogical.  Some of the world's most populous places are most horrible.  Texas would rather spend 100 times the money on a death penalty case than the amount of money it would take to give a man a good enough start in life so he wouldn't end up a murderer.  It costs more to keep a person in prison for four years than it does to send him to college for four years.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: GWBush2004 on 07/18/04 at 11:14 am



All politicians want to take your money.  Conservatives these days want to use poor and middle class peoples' money to subsidize tax cuts for the very rich.  They also want to keep siphoning funds away from social programs and pouring it through the Pentagon sieve.  Your comment about Texas is completely illogical.  Some of the world's most populous places are most horrible.  Texas would rather spend 100 times the money on a death penalty case than the amount of money it would take to give a man a good enough start in life so he wouldn't end up a murderer.  It costs more to keep a person in prison for four years than it does to send him to college for four years.


First off I am middle class.  I am currently taxed 28%, but with Clinton it was 40%.  Conservatives tax everyone less, if the top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of the taxes collected then poor people are getting a great deal.  I know people from New York and Mass. don't like Texas, but I doubt the people of the great state of Texas like them either.  Why do you not like the death penalty, it cost less then life in jail.  Also murderers don't spend long in Texas's jails, in that state if you murder someone and 3 CREDIBLE witnesses see you murder that person you're given the death penalty in 90 days.  Thats it, flat, no appeals.  That is a great law, here in Georgia we just executed someone who has been on death-row for 14 YEARS.  IT SHOULDN'T TAKE THAT LONG!!!!!!

By the way, I am switching my vote in the Georgia primary from Mac Collins to Herman Cain, who wants a tax system thats fair and simple.  By that EVERYONE IS TAXED EQUALLY, REGUARDLESS OF INCOME.  NOW THATS A PLAN!!!!!!!

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: danootaandme on 07/18/04 at 1:13 pm

The cost of putting someone to death is much more than supporting them for life in prison. 
Look it up, it is a fact.  I would be more inclined to support the death penalty if there were
some way to be assured that the police caught the right person, that is not always so.  It is
also a fact that police have manufactured evidence to send people to jail and/or execute them
and please don't say the accused had done/or would have done something to deserve the
punishment.  There isn't any doubt in my mind the many a personal score has been settled by
an officer of the law in this way. You should not be so trusting of the government to assume that
you would not be one of them.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/18/04 at 1:51 pm





First off I am middle class.  I am currently taxed 28%, but with Clinton it was 40%.  Conservatives tax everyone less, if the top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of the taxes collected then poor people are getting a great deal.

Top 50% is a deceptive figure as proportions change dramatically as you get into to the top decile, the top percentile, and then the top fractions of the top percentile.  David Cay Johnston lays it out best in Perfectly Legal.  I recommend that book to anyone interested in the tax structure.  It is not a liberal pundit book, but I very lucid economic text for the layperson.  Johnston does hold the opinion that the current tax system is grossly unfair.  It's unfair not just to poor folks, but to the middle class, and to people most of us would consider wealthy, people earning between $200,000 and $500,00 per annum.  The unfairness to nearly everybody in the country is for the economic gain of the top few percentile, especially the top fractions of the top one percent.  I really do recommend Johnston's book!
  I know people from New York and Mass. don't like Texas, but I doubt the people of the great state of Texas like them either.
Be careful here.  I didn't say anything about the land of Texas or the people of Texas.  It is the political power structure of Texas and the values of the Republican politicians of Texas that I don't like.

Why do you not like the death penalty, it cost less then life in jail.  Also murderers don't spend long in Texas's jails, in that state if you murder someone and 3 CREDIBLE witnesses see you murder that person you're given the death penalty in 90 days.  Thats it, flat, no appeals. 
Hmmm...I've never heard that.  When was the last time a convict got executed in 90 days?  That sure is a great way to insure the wrong people get the hot shot.  I mean, who gets to define "credible"?  Eyewitnesses an open-and-shut case do not make!
here in Georgia we just executed someone who has been on death-row for 14 YEARS.  IT SHOULDN'T TAKE THAT LONG!!!!!!
I don't think there should be a death penalty at all.  As I've explained before, the death penalty is fundamentally unfair to people without means to buy themselves a good defense.  Poor people and especiall poor people who are racial minorities are far more likely to get convicted of capital crimes than wealthy and white people.  There were soooo many convicts on death row exonerated by DNA evidence, that the governor of Illinois called for a moratorium on the death penalty.
Even with DNA evidence, there is still room for error.  Fundamentally, I hate the death penalty because it is irreversible.  That I dislike it philosophically is secondary.
It is interesting to note that it is Harris County (Houston) that skews Texas so far ahead of any other state in application of the death penalty.  The rest of the state is happy to sentence people to death, but it is Harris County that's absolutely nuts about it!

By the way, I am switching my vote in the Georgia primary from Mac Collins to Herman Cain, who wants a tax system thats fair and simple.  By that EVERYONE IS TAXED EQUALLY, REGUARDLESS OF INCOME.  NOW THATS A PLAN!!!!!!!

It all depends on how such a tax is applied.  What clowns like Steve Forbes wanted to do was apply a flat tax, tell all us average dopes it's fair, and then sneak capital gains out of the system completely.  That's not fair at all!

Danoota wroteThe cost of putting someone to death is much more than supporting them for life in prison. 
Look it up, it is a fact.  I would be more inclined to support the death penalty if there were
some way to be assured that the police caught the right person, that is not always so.  It is
also a fact that police have manufactured evidence to send people to jail and/or execute them
and please don't say the accused had done/or would have done something to deserve the
punishment.  There isn't any doubt in my mind the many a personal score has been settled by
an officer of the law in this way. You should not be so trusting of the government to assume that
you would not be one of them.

These are great points.  As I addressed above, DNA evidence may link a person to the crime, but it doesn't insure that the person is the one who qualifies for the death penalty.  And yes, it costs a f**king fortune to prosecute a death penalty case and exhaust all appeals.  Sure, you could go cheap like China: trial in the morning, appeal in the afternoon, hanging at sundown, but you don't really want that, do you?
::)

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: Don Carlos on 07/18/04 at 4:36 pm

Seems to me that this thread has gotten way off topic.  Taxes and the death penalty are certainly important, and both Kerry and Lill' Georgie have positions on them, but shouldn't they be seperate threads?  I'll start them.

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: saver on 07/19/04 at 12:20 am

>:(Meanwhile....

Kerry 'changes his mind' as much as I change my socks!

Watch for this one upcoming:

Kerry proclaims the VietNam issue shouldn't even be on the table!...
Okay, listen to what Edwards is saying/will be saying at the rallies-
John Kerry is a VietNam vet he blah blah blah in the  Viet Nam War...

some 20 years now Kerry is around, what has he done that YOU can remember?
If we were being threatened what would HE do..no solid answers!

evenly, I can't really say I'd go for Bush either so, I might just sit this one out!

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/19/04 at 12:29 am


>:(Meanwhile....

Kerry 'changes his mind' as much as I change my socks!

Watch for this one upcoming:

Kerry proclaims the VietNam issue shouldn't even be on the table!...
Okay, listen to what Edwards is saying/will be saying at the rallies-
John Kerry is a VietNam vet he blah blah blah in the  Viet Nam War...

some 20 years now Kerry is around, what has he done that YOU can remember?
If we were being threatened what would HE do..no solid answers!

evenly, I can't really say I'd go for Bush either so, I might just sit this one out!


At least Kerry has a mind to change, unlike some people running for President!
:P

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: saver on 07/19/04 at 3:11 pm

...hmm, this week Kerry picked the face with the 'wrinkles',
(photo found on drudge report), couldn't make up his mind on that even! ;D

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: MaxwellSmart on 07/19/04 at 3:55 pm


...hmm, this week Kerry picked the face with the 'wrinkles',
(photo found on drudge report), couldn't make up his mind on that even! ;D

Druck Fudge

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: CatwomanofV on 07/19/04 at 6:50 pm



At least Kerry has a mind to change, unlike some people running for President!
:P


Touche!  ;D ;D ;D



Cat

Subject: Re: how DARE Kerry!!!!

Written By: ChuckyG on 07/20/04 at 4:21 pm

this thread is way off topic... I'm gonna lock it before it gets worse.

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