We are very unfortunate that he is usually a good lad anyway, Carlos. We give to him so we expect a little back. 'Holding the reins' is a tricky business and sometimes we can be a little too soft or hard. We are always evaluating how we are doing and if we do something wrong how to improve. Showing the child that we are human and prone to mistakes is a good thing.

My main concern is to break the cycle of 'bad parenting' that runs in our family.  ::)  :)
The fact that you recognize this puts you on the right track.  Good luck to you.  :)

The fact that you recognize this puts you on the right track.  Good luck to you.  :)


Thank you very much, Ladybug. It means a lot.  :)

I must add that previously I put 'unfortunate to have a good lad' when I meant 'fortunate' - doh!  ;D

How about the Teletubbies? :D

Or Boohbah ::) ;D

I am very sorry to hear of your troubled past, Maxwell.



Absolutely. My dad gave me a one way ticket in February 1996 to live with my mum. He decided that he had enough of me. I was 16 at the time and he had split my education into two in the process. I believe it was a refusal to accept the neglect we recieved from my mother previously as I lacked hygiene and any idea how to apply it in my life.

I lived with my mother in a council house and it was disgusting. There were flies everywhere (dead or alive) coming from open dustbin liner bags full of rubbish in the kitchen. The floor was always covered in junk and clothes and furniture often had a thick layer of dust on it. I had given up on any idea of cleaning up after my mother when my sister used to do it occassionally and she would make a mess only minutes later. I only wanted my mum to try. This woman was the same women who was a baptised member of the religion we were involved with and went out on the 'ministry' just to stay away from the filthy house. I was consumed with rage because of my mothers nonchalence. It got to the point were she made me count the days to when she would throw me out of the house (it would be shameful for her in such a religious position to chuck me out any earlier). She wanted me out desperately by my 18 birthday but managed it a day or two before. She threw my clothes out of my bedroom window and I knew that if I was to get them, she would lock the door on me. She got the police involved and from there I was put in a cell for a few hours while they could find me some accommodation. That day and the mental anguish previously still haunts me but I keep telling myself that it's all over.  :)

I was very fortunate that I had some wonderful friends within the religion who helped me through.

Yeah, that all sounds pretty familiar, Bobby.  It stinks when you have parents who can't keep their own heads together long enough to look after you properly.  That's what happened to me.

Yeah, that all sounds pretty familiar, Bobby.  It stinks when you have parents who can't keep their own heads together long enough to look after you properly.  That's what happened to me.


What's worse is that all this crap affects how you view things in the present and the future. De-programming is a very difficult thing to do. I have got over some things and old habits but I still have things to deal with on a daily basis.

I trust this is similar to yourself, Maxwell. The way I see it, we've got this far. It's a testament to our self preservation instincts.  :)

  How many people do you know who "allow" their children "complete access to internet filth? 

Well here are some figures from Bill O'Reilly:

1. The average kid views their first page of internet porn at age 8.
2. The largest porn-viewing age group is 12-17, that age group views more porn then even legal adults.
3. On average, 11 million pages of porn are viewed each week by people under 18.

Ah, modern day liberal parents who can't see the difference between spanking and abuse.  They act like every kid that is spanked, even when its done right, will grow up with mental problems.  So since near everyone spanked in the 1800's and first half of the 1900's I guess everyone had problems, some logic eh?

Kids are a pain in the neck, and don't tell me they aren't.  They ruin your house, stain your carpet, and do all kinds of things you always have to in today's world act positive about.  No parent can get mad anymore.  Thats one reason I never wanted kids, EVERYTHING seems to be neglect or abuse or something, like everyone is suppose to be perfect.  Here are some other reasons I didn't want kids:

1.  The average infant sleeps 2.75 hours a night.  I am not going to deal with that.
2.  The AVERAGE kid costs 100,000 dollars by age 18 for food and clothes alone.  That doesn't include Christmas, birthdays, toys, doctor, dental, and whatever else.
3.  Your whole life has to revolve around them.


All I can say is that if your political inclinations are genetic, I certainly support your decision not to pass them on.  Your stataistics, however are dubious at best.

Ah, modern day liberal parents who can't see the difference between spanking and abuse.  They act like every kid that is spanked, even when its done right, will grow up with mental problems.  So since near everyone spanked in the 1800's and first half of the 1900's I guess everyone had problems, some logic eh?

Kids are a pain in the neck, and don't tell me they aren't.  They ruin your house, stain your carpet, and do all kinds of things you always have to in today's world act positive about.  No parent can get mad anymore.  Thats one reason I never wanted kids, EVERYTHING seems to be neglect or abuse or something, like everyone is suppose to be perfect.  Here are some other reasons I didn't want kids:

1.  The average infant sleeps 2.75 hours a night.  I am not going to deal with that.
2.  The AVERAGE kid costs 100,000 dollars by age 18 for food and clothes alone.  That doesn't include Christmas, birthdays, toys, doctor, dental, and whatever else.
3.  Your whole life has to revolve around them.


Given your attitude toward kids, I find it strange that you also oppose abortion.  I would think that you would want it to be manditory.

It's not my values that concern me about my potential parenting skills, it's the way I'm still so bound up by my own traumatic upbrining, and other terrible events that seem to follow me like a curse through life.  

.


Max, I'm sorry to hear this.  From what I know of you, you are a caring, intelligent, and (dare I say moral) person.  I don't mean to be intrusive, but I do hope you will triumph over the demons that haunt you, and come to find a wonderful relationship with a woman and your mutual children.  From what I know of you, you deserve the joy that only children can bring.  I don't want to get maudland (sp) but I think you can raise the kind of kids that will bring it to you.  Feel free to PM me if you like to discuss this further.

There is a VAST difference between a swat and beating your child.

I never abused my children.  Never ever ever.  I can't stress that enough.  In fact, when they are 2 and under, it is a great technique to use, because the diaper absorbs all possible damage.

.  


While I personally don't think spanking is very effective, I agree that there is a big difference between a pat on the bottom and abuse.  I always found that a good, firm NO, and a tightly held hand (or whole body, for that matter) was enough to show my displeasure.  I'm not at all suggesting that spanking = abuse.  I am questioning the message it sends and its effectiveness.  On this question, we can disagree, to a point.  Clearly, there is a point where "spanking" can become abuse, as I'm sure you would agree.  Please don't get me wrong.  I am in no way implying anything.  We all have our ways of paranting, and if your kids turn out to be good people, than your way must be as good as mine.  I can't tell you how proud I am of my kids.  I hope you feel the same about yours.

We are very fortunate that he is usually a good lad anyway, Carlos. We give to him so we expect a little back. 'Holding the reins' is a tricky business and sometimes we can be a little too soft or hard. We are always evaluating how we are doing and if we do something wrong how to improve. Showing the child that we are human and prone to mistakes is a good thing.

My main concern is to break the cycle of 'bad parenting' that runs in our family.  ::)  :)


All I have is a bit of experiance to offer, but it sounds like you guys are confronting the issues.  Of course you can never know if you are "holding the riens" too hard or too soft.  But my experience suggests that if he knows you love him, he will forgive you if you get it wrong.  The love part has to be the bottom line.  I say this..., I make this rule... because I love you.  If he believes that, he may, might, almost certainly will, resist, test.  Than you need to still be loving, and reasonable, and tough.  Man, it ain't easy.  Just hang inthere, use your best insticts, be firm and gentle, be loving and tough, and hope for  the best.  No one can give you specific advise without lots of specific info, but please feel free to PM me if you think there are any suggestions you think I might make.  I'm happy to share my own experiances with you.  Again, good luck with your relationship and your teen.

I am very sorry to hear of your troubled past, Maxwell.



Absolutely. My dad gave me a one way ticket in February 1996 to live with my mum. He decided that he had enough of me. I was 16 at the time and he had split my education into two in the process. I believe it was a refusal to accept the neglect we recieved from my mother previously as I lacked hygiene and any idea how to apply it in my life.

I lived with my mother in a council house and it was disgusting. There were flies everywhere (dead or alive) coming from open dustbin liner bags full of rubbish in the kitchen. The floor was always covered in junk and clothes and furniture often had a thick layer of dust on it. I had given up on any idea of cleaning up after my mother when my sister used to do it occassionally and she would make a mess only minutes later. I only wanted my mum to try. This woman was the same women who was a baptised member of the religion we were involved with and went out on the 'ministry' just to stay away from the filthy house. I was consumed with rage because of my mothers nonchalence. It got to the point were she made me count the days to when she would throw me out of the house (it would be shameful for her in such a religious position to chuck me out any earlier). She wanted me out desperately by my 18 birthday but managed it a day or two before. She threw my clothes out of my bedroom window and I knew that if I was to get them, she would lock the door on me. She got the police involved and from there I was put in a cell for a few hours while they could find me some accommodation. That day and the mental anguish previously still haunts me but I keep telling myself that it's all over.  :)

I was very fortunate that I had some wonderful friends within the religion who helped me through.


Good, Lord, Bobby!!!  None of your previous posts suggested anything like this sort of trama.  I'm not surprised that it still haunts you.  Clearly, this history will always be with you.  My observation (I'm NOT a shrink) is that you are moving on, esrablishing your own live, and doing a good job of it.  You have my support.  Again PM me any time.  I will get back to you ASAP.

Well here are some figures from Bill O'Reilly:

1. The average kid views their first page of internet porn at age 8.
2. The largest porn-viewing age group is 12-17, that age group views more porn then even legal adults.
3. On average, 11 million pages of porn are viewed each week by people under 18.


So teens are interested in sex.  My God, what a revelation.  I guess you were'nt?  As a teen I SUBSCRIBED to Playboy.  Mom wasn't pleased but I guess dad ok'ed it.  What does this prove that we parants of teens don't already know?  As I understand it, teen pregnancy is down (although still too high) and most rapes are NOT committed by teens.  So yeah, they're horny, what else is new?

So teens are interested in sex.  My God, what a revelation.  I guess you were'nt?  As a teen I SUBSCRIBED to Playboy.  Mom wasn't pleased but I guess dad ok'ed it.  What does this prove that we parants of teens don't already know?  As I understand it, teen pregnancy is down (although still too high) and most rapes are NOT committed by teens.  So yeah, they're horny, what else is new?

I'm ambivalent about this issue.  Like DC, says, I saw plenty of porn as a kid.  My friends and I, our fathers had subscriptions to the various men's magazines, Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, Club, Cheri, whatever.  In itself the porn didn't do me any psychological harm.  What hurt me was my father's piggish, misongynistic attitudes, and his crassness about sexuality.  Even so, as an adult I abominate misogyny, male chauvinism, and all that my father represented.  He was an anti-role model, if you will.
I suspect what most kids aren't getting much further than the doorways and teasers provided by the adult websites.  You can't any further without a cc number (trust me, MaxwellSmart knows  ;) ).  The trouble is the images available without adult verification are still more explicit than anything in those adult mags I snuck when I was a kid.  Larry Flynt of "Hustler" said recently, "They show material on HBO more explicit than what I was jailed for in 1974." 
These commercial porn sites also generate endless vile pop-ups for more spammy adult sites.  I'll bet those delayed pop-ups cause a lot of domestic angst!
Now, when I was first into websurfing, I wanted to see, you know, what's up.  I heard about all the sick smut out there in cyber space, and my curiosity got the better of me.  The really bizarre and depraved images that could traumatize a person aren't on those vanilla paysites.  You really have to dig for the sick stuff, which I did, and there are some images I'm still sorry I saw out there in cyberspace.  The stereotype about kids being more deft with the internet than adults is often true, so it wouldn't surprise me if kids were accessing the same kind of nauseating swill I saw.

What kind of "damage" pornography does to a child depends a lot on the circumstances of his or her home and upbringing.  Ironically, it may be the puritan right-wingers who present a more harmful environment to children.  If parents are shaming and forbidding about pornography, the kid isn't going to be able to talk to his parents if he's disturbed by what he sees.

I think the danger much greater than pornographic images is adults who pose as teens or children and troll chat rooms and messageboards for victims.

Well here are some figures from Bill O'Reilly:

1. The average kid views their first page of internet porn at age 8.
2. The largest porn-viewing age group is 12-17, that age group views more porn then even legal adults.
3. On average, 11 million pages of porn are viewed each week by people under 18.
As usual, you missed my point and just throw more statistics at me.  My emphasis was on the word "allow" (that was YOUR word).  I don't know ANY parent who would ALLOW their child to surf the internet for porn (or smoke or sniff glue or whatever other evils you can do the math for)!! 

Yes, there are things out there that children should not be exposed to.  There may even be some 8 year old out there who watches Bill O'Reilly  :P

Well here are some figures from Bill O'Reilly:

1. The average kid views their first page of internet porn at age 8.
2. The largest porn-viewing age group is 12-17, that age group views more porn then even legal adults.
3. On average, 11 million pages of porn are viewed each week by people under 18.



When I was kid (about 6 or 7), I remembered when we discovered where my dad kept his Playboy magazines. As a teen, I used to steal my mother's Playgirl magazines-and she knew it. My parents used to walk around the house naked. It basically taught us that the human body is natural-not taboo. While I agree that an 8 year old shouldn't be watching sex acts, I see nothing wrong him/her seeing naked bodies-we all have them. But, I would rather a kid be exposed (no pun intended) to porn then to the violence they get everyday from t.v. movies, and video games.

At the age of 5 or 6 (I think) I shocked our neighbors because I saw two of our cats "going at it" and I tried to stop them and said, "We don't want any more kittens." Yes, at that age, I knew where babies came from. I don't remember NOT knowing. I don't think it hurt me at all.


*edited-thanks to Cheerleader.  ;)

Cat

Don't you mean shouldn't? ;)



Yikes! You are right. That was an oops on my part. Thanks for pointing that out to me.  :-[



Cat

What kind of "damage" pornography does to a child depends a lot on the circumstances of his or her home and upbringing.  Ironically, it may be the puritan right-wingers who present a more harmful environment to children.  If parents are shaming and forbidding about pornography, the kid isn't going to be able to talk to his parents if he's disturbed by what he sees.

I think the danger much greater than pornographic images is adults who pose as teens or children and troll chat rooms and messageboards for victims.


The first thing I learned from Playboy was that women folded in twoi places and had staples in their navels  ;)  ;D

More seriously, I think the pervasiveness of porn is a reflection of this country's puritanism regarding sexuality.

Yes, there are things out there that children should not be exposed to.  There may even be some 8 year old out there who watches Bill O'Reilly  :P


Now THAT would really harm them  ;)

As a mother of 3 kids, I have to say your statement is rather offensive...sure some kids are rude, arrogant, etc., but not all of them.  I have had run-ins with people who hate ALL kids and let me tell you, my kids behave better than some of them. ::)


I agree!

All I have is a bit of experiance to offer, but it sounds like you guys are confronting the issues.  Of course you can never know if you are "holding the riens" too hard or too soft.  But my experience suggests that if he knows you love him, he will forgive you if you get it wrong.  The love part has to be the bottom line.  I say this..., I make this rule... because I love you.  If he believes that, he may, might, almost certainly will, resist, test.  Than you need to still be loving, and reasonable, and tough.  Man, it ain't easy.  Just hang inthere, use your best insticts, be firm and gentle, be loving and tough, and hope for  the best.  No one can give you specific advise without lots of specific info, but please feel free to PM me if you think there are any suggestions you think I might make.  I'm happy to share my own experiances with you.  Again, good luck with your relationship and your teen.


Thank you very much, Carlos. We try our best. Yourself and Cat sound like very thoughtful people. It is a shame to say this but your children are very lucky to have wonderful parents.  :)

Thank you very much, Carlos. We try our best. Yourself and Cat sound like very thoughtful people. It is a shame to say this but your children are very lucky to have wonderful parents.  :)



Awww, thanks Bobby. But I really had nothing to do with it. I do love Carlos kids very much but I really don't think that I did anything in raising them. His oldest 3 were basically on their own when I came into the picture and I was basically a friend to his youngest. So I can't take any credit for them.



Cat

Good, Lord, Bobby!!!  None of your previous posts suggested anything like this sort of trama.  I'm not surprised that it still haunts you.  Clearly, this history will always be with you.  My observation (I'm NOT a shrink) is that you are moving on, esrablishing your own live, and doing a good job of it.  You have my support.  Again PM me any time.  I will get back to you ASAP.


I have moved on. Sometimes the neurosis's and quirks I have that result from rejection, hypocrisy and neglect arise but I try to accept that is what I am. I am on relatively good terms with both parents considering what has happened and have invited both to my engagement party and resulting wedding. Forgiving was difficult (obviously you can't forget) but I think my girlfriend's support helped me progress fully to that.

I'll never forget the day we took her son to play crazy golf on a park and while he was busy playing, I sat her down on a park bench and explained to her why I do not have a close relationship with my mother. She is very close to her mother and so assumed I was the same. She was upset and angry for me but I stressed that I only told her so that she can make sense of the situation and not for me to force an impression of my mother onto her. However, it got to the point where we were invited over for tea one Saturday evening and she continued to talk negatively about past experiences and would berate me in a 'joking' manner. It was enough for my girlfriend to have a similar opinion of her as I did. She couldn't understand why I didn't get angry at my mother and I said that we were in her house, I wanted to keep my dignity and that I didn't want to lose her (my girlfriend's) respect for me. As a result, I felt a weight lift off my shoulders.

Thank you very much for your support, Carlos.  :)

Awww, thanks Bobby. But I really had nothing to do with it. I do love Carlos kids very much but I really don't think that I did anything in raising them. His oldest 3 were basically on their own when I came into the picture and I was basically a friend to his youngest. So I can't take any credit for them.


I see.  :)

I'm ambivalent about this issue.  Like DC, says, I saw plenty of porn as a kid.  My friends and I, our fathers had subscriptions to the various men's magazines, Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, Club, Cheri, whatever.  In itself the porn didn't do me any psychological harm.  What hurt me was my father's piggish, misongynistic attitudes, and his crassness about sexuality.  Even so, as an adult I abominate misogyny, male chauvinism, and all that my father represented.  He was an anti-role model, if you will.


Did you look elsewhere for your role model, Max? My nan (taught me patience), grandad (taught me optimism and being happy with yourself) and uncle (taught me the importance of thinking) were my role-models (God bless them). It's a shame I had to do that but when your mum and dad are chucking cutlery at each other, what can a person do?

Did you look elsewhere for your role model, Max? My nan (taught me patience), grandad (taught me optimism and being happy with yourself) and uncle (taught me the importance of thinking) were my role-models (God bless them). It's a shame I had to do that but when your mum and dad are chucking cutlery at each other, what can a person do?

Well, I learned my values by picking and choosing what I though was right from various adults in my life.  I didn't respect my father's attitude toward women, but I valued his convictions about racial equality and social justice. 
One of the hardest things to explain about abusive parents is how they're not all bad all the time. I had some great times with my old man.  Yet, you never knew when the weather was going to change and he'd turn back into a monster.  In some senses it would have been easier to take if he was a monster all the time.  You can predict a monster.  You couldn't predict my dad.

Well, I learned my values by picking and choosing what I though was right from various adults in my life.  I didn't respect my father's attitude toward women, but I valued his convictions about racial equality and social justice. 
One of the hardest things to explain about abusive parents is how they're not all bad all the time. I had some great times with my old man.  Yet, you never knew when the weather was going to change and he'd turn back into a monster.  In some senses it would have been easier to take if he was a monster all the time.  You can predict a monster.  You couldn't predict my dad.


This is why abuse is so damaging in a way. Nothing is usually black or white and it questions your perception of things. I had good times with my mum and dad to some degree (my mum has a wicked sense of humour).

Awww, thanks Bobby. But I really had nothing to do with it. I do love Carlos kids very much but I really don't think that I did anything in raising them. His oldest 3 were basically on their own when I came into the picture and I was basically a friend to his youngest. So I can't take any credit for them.



Cat


The chronology is right, but in terms of the youngest at least, and my son (the third), not altogether true.  Cat has encouraged and validated their goals and given them much moral support, which contributes to who they are and are becoming.  She's too modest.

The chronology is right, but in terms of the youngest at least, and my son (the third), not altogether true.  Cat has encouraged and validated their goals and given them much moral support, which contributes to who they are and are becoming.  She's too modest.




Awww, Thanks, Honey.  :-* :-* :-*



Cat

The chronology is right, but in terms of the youngest at least, and my son (the third), not altogether true.  Cat has encouraged and validated their goals and given them much moral support, which contributes to who they are and are becoming.  She's too modest.


Ah! That's well cool.  :)

Ah! That's well cool.  :)


Not just cool, but true.  Bobby, you are obviously having an influence on your indended's teen, which is a massive responsibility which you seem to take very seriously.  Every adult who has contact with a kid shares that responsibility. 

I read a lot of different stuff, from history to politics to anthropology to (some) fiction, and what always comes out in the "real" stuff is the title of Hillary"s book It Takes a Village to Raise.. (don't remember the end).  Until the town ended the program I had a sign in my front window that said, simply "SAFE HOUSE" meaning that any kid walking the street could knock on our door and get a phone and a safe place to stay.  I don't know why the town took those posters away - I was deep in domestic issues leading to divorce at the time- but it was a good program, and in my little town, those posters were everywhere.  I use to coach T-Ball etc.  Adults need to be involved with kids, theirs and those of others to guide and nurture them.  That's what community is about.

Not just cool, but true.  Bobby, you are obviously having an influence on your indended's teen, which is a massive responsibility which you seem to take very seriously.  Every adult who has contact with a kid shares that responsibility. 

I read a lot of different stuff, from history to politics to anthropology to (some) fiction, and what always comes out in the "real" stuff is the title of Hillary"s book It Takes a Village to Raise.. (don't remember the end).  Until the town ended the program I had a sign in my front window that said, simply "SAFE HOUSE" meaning that any kid walking the street could knock on our door and get a phone and a safe place to stay.  I don't know why the town took those posters away - I was deep in domestic issues leading to divorce at the time- but it was a good program, and in my little town, those posters were everywhere.  I use to coach T-Ball etc.  Adults need to be involved with kids, theirs and those of others to guide and nurture them.  That's what community is about.


I think the sensationalism of Paedophilia and indifference has had an effect on the way adults handle children these days. If a person put 'SAFE HOUSE' in England for that reason, Carlos, the police would want to check you out regardless. Unfortunately, it is the way of the world and so typical that the few make the majority so neurotic about our children's welfare.  ::)

I think the sensationalism of Paedophilia and indifference has had an effect on the way adults handle children these days. If a person put 'SAFE HOUSE' in England for that reason, Carlos, the police would want to check you out regardless. Unfortunately, it is the way of the world and so typical that the few make the majority so neurotic about our children's welfare.  ::)


You are absolutely right, Ain't it a shame?  I'm fairly sure that other (non-western) cultures would find this incomprehensible.  What are we coming to?

You are absolutely right, Ain't it a shame?  I'm fairly sure that other (non-western) cultures would find this incomprehensible.  What are we coming to?


A world were a child can kick you in the groin and you can't do anything about it.  :-\\

A world were a child can kick you in the groin and you can't do anything about it.  :-\\


Why would a kid WANT to kick someone in the groin?  And if a kid did, might it not because the adult deserved it?  Clearly, there is a perpetual generation gap.  Kids want to assert their independance and adults want to control them.  To avoid being kicked one has to handle the reins carefully.  Too loose and the kid "runs wild", to tight and the kid "bucks you off his back", like a rodeo bronco.  In my experience, kids are not wilfully nasty.  They are just kids.

I'm ambivalent about this issue.  Like DC, says, I saw plenty of porn as a kid.  My friends and I, our fathers had subscriptions to the various men's magazines, Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, Club, Cheri, whatever.


While some people see that as Porn, it is very VERY tame compared to what our kids can get now on-line.

I remember reading my grandfather's Playboy magazines.  Now, you can see more explicit things on R rated Cable shows (and even some Broadcast shows).

I did not see true "Porn" until I was 18, and was able to go to see an Adult Movie for the first time.  Now, kids can download those movies in an hour or so.  This is a vast difference.

In my job, I have spent a LOT of time cleaning all of the porn pop-ups and porn spyware from people's computers, not to mention the porn dialers.  We had one gal come in because her DAUGHTER found this site that lets her see free porn movies.  THe catch was that the computer got them from the equivelent of a 1-900 number in the Virgin Islands (how ironic!).  A $600 phone bill later, and the total reload of her computer ($80) because it was impossible to remove all of it.

Kids now have much more available then was out there even 10 years ago.  I live in Alabama, where nothing harder then R rated is allowed.  Vibrators are even illegal here.  But on-line, they can see every form of illegal smut they can find.

Now I am not a prude.  But the stuff out there now maked Playboy look as tame as the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue.  And because I work on dozens of computers a week, I do not want to get into SOME of the things I have seen over the years, they still give me nightmares.  :o

While some people see that as Porn, it is very VERY tame compared to what our kids can get now on-line.

I remember reading my grandfather's Playboy magazines.  Now, you can see more explicit things on R rated Cable shows (and even some Broadcast shows).

I did not see true "Porn" until I was 18, and was able to go to see an Adult Movie for the first time.  Now, kids can download those movies in an hour or so.  This is a vast difference.

In my job, I have spent a LOT of time cleaning all of the porn pop-ups and porn spyware from people's computers, not to mention the porn dialers.  We had one gal come in because her DAUGHTER found this site that lets her see free porn movies.  THe catch was that the computer got them from the equivelent of a 1-900 number in the Virgin Islands (how ironic!).  A $600 phone bill later, and the total reload of her computer ($80) because it was impossible to remove all of it.

Kids now have much more available then was out there even 10 years ago.  I live in Alabama, where nothing harder then R rated is allowed.  Vibrators are even illegal here.  But on-line, they can see every form of illegal smut they can find.

Now I am not a prude.  But the stuff out there now maked Playboy look as tame as the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue.  And because I work on dozens of computers a week, I do not want to get into SOME of the things I have seen over the years, they still give me nightmares.   :o


Yeah, there is a truckload of s**t out there, and technologies that impose it on people's computers, and prevent them from getting rid of it, need to be brought under control.  Kids do have access to this stuff, and that COULD pose a problem, althought when we speak of the pubesant, I guess I'm not sure what the problem is.  They may witness various expressions of sexuality of which their parents might not approve, but I wonder what harm is done.  If we are'nt talking actual harm to either party, and are talking consulting adults willing to be photographed, well...

On another level, porn is almost as old as humanity.  There is an Egyptian mural that depicts just about every "activity" and just about every position I can concive of, so clearly, our facination with sex is nothing new.  It may be part of our biological makeup.  Human females, after all, are  the ONLY females in the animal kingdom who are receptive to sex most of the time, and don't advertise when they are fertile.  Maybe we shouldn't be called "homo Sapian", a better term might be "homo hornius".

Kids now have much more available then was out there even 10 years ago.  I live in Alabama, where nothing harder then R rated is allowed.  Vibrators are even illegal here. 

Talk about your intrusive Big Government!  What business is it of the state's if the adults want to avail themselves of porn or, um, "marital aids"?

Talk about your intrusive Big Government!  What business is it of the state's if the adults want to avail themselves of porn or, um, "marital aids"?


This is the heart of the "Bible Belt".  And remember, if the people here really wanted it changed, it would be changed.

I live 20 miles from a classic "Dry County".  That's right, no alcohol at all in the entire county.  The county I live in is Dry on Sunday.

It is not like it is a big problem.  If you want to drink or buy more mature material, Florida is only 30 miles away.  And if you live on the other side of the state, there is Louisiana and New Orleans.

Remember, laws like these may seem restrictive, but it *IS* the choice of the people who live here.  If there was a majority that wanted them changed, they would be changed.  Just as you feel it is everybodies right to "do what they want", it should also be their right to set rules for their own communities.

This is the heart of the "Bible Belt".  And remember, if the people here really wanted it changed, it would be changed.

I live 20 miles from a classic "Dry County".  That's right, no alcohol at all in the entire county.  The county I live in is Dry on Sunday.

It is not like it is a big problem.  If you want to drink or buy more mature material, Florida is only 30 miles away.  And if you live on the other side of the state, there is Louisiana and New Orleans.

Remember, laws like these may seem restrictive, but it *IS* the choice of the people who live here.  If there was a majority that wanted them changed, they would be changed.  Just as you feel it is everybodies right to "do what they want", it should also be their right to set rules for their own communities.


Although we are moving a bit off topic here,  I think we need to take a step back and look at the political process.  Especially in the "bible belt", but certainly not exclusively, no politician who wants to win, or stay in office is going to advocate the decriminalization of sin (except in Berkely CA).  So throughout the country we have "blue laws" on the books that outlaw sexy stuff - like the recently overturned (was it in Texas?) anti-sodomy laws.  My pocket dictionary defines sodomy as "unnatural sexual activity" whatever that means.  Unnatural according to whom, St Paul, Attila the Hun, Pat Robinson, Jim Bakker, Jerry Falwell, or me and my wife?  If you pick anything other than "me and my wife" (or for the non -committed "partner") I must say WRONG.  And in those places that have these restricting rules, I guess if they start spying into bed rooms, they better build more prisons.

But all this has to do with consenting adults.  I don't know whether Linda Lovelace was forced into porn, as she claimed, but it is very clear that there are lots of "sex workers" who, I guess like minimum wage workers, are doing what they have to do to get by.  Unfortunate maybe, but a fact of life.

Now to kids.  Should they be exposed to images of sexuality?  I would say that it depends.  My (then 19 years old) son gave me a porn flic that, well, I found a bit on the edge.  Didn't harm me or, him?  I think not. 

Parants know that this stuff is available, not only on the web.  It is up to them to decide.

Why would a kid WANT to kick someone in the groin?  And if a kid did, might it not because the adult deserved it?  Clearly, there is a perpetual generation gap.  Kids want to assert their independance and adults want to control them.  To avoid being kicked one has to handle the reins carefully.  Too loose and the kid "runs wild", to tight and the kid "bucks you off his back", like a rodeo bronco.  In my experience, kids are not wilfully nasty.  They are just kids.


Lol. I wasn't being literal, Carlos. I was using a dramatic metaphor (doesn't always express properly in type). I was saying that if a child is allowed to go protected from discipline, he will 'hurt you where you most vulnerable' - your pride, your sense of moral duty, a sense of exasperation . . .

As for kids being just kids, well, I see kids as vessels or 'sponges' (not physically  ;)), Carlos. They will soak up or fill themselves on outside (negative, neutral or positive) influences (parents, other children, other adults . . .). Children are great imitators and will often show up severe negative parental conditioning (neglect, aggression, excessive criticism . . .).  :)

And that's the way my mind works on this matter.  ;D

This is the heart of the "Bible Belt".  And remember, if the people here really wanted it changed, it would be changed.

I live 20 miles from a classic "Dry County".  That's right, no alcohol at all in the entire county.  The county I live in is Dry on Sunday.

It is not like it is a big problem.  If you want to drink or buy more mature material, Florida is only 30 miles away.  And if you live on the other side of the state, there is Louisiana and New Orleans.

Remember, laws like these may seem restrictive, but it *IS* the choice of the people who live here.  If there was a majority that wanted them changed, they would be changed.  Just as you feel it is everybodies right to "do what they want", it should also be their right to set rules for their own communities.

The internet does present an interesting question.  It's not illegal to possess pornography, correct?  Is it illegal to buy it via mail order?
You can drink liquor in a dry county, you just can't sell it, I assume it would be the same with porn.

Also, was the anti-porn statute voted on by referendum, or passed by the legislature with implied consent of the people?  I'm not doubting a majority would rather have the restrictions.  I'm just saying there's a philosophical differnence between direct referendum and representative legislative action. 
If you put "Single Payer Healthcare" as a national referendum question, I'll bet it would pass by a wide margin.

Although we are moving a bit off topic here,  I think we need to take a step back and look at the political process.  Especially in the "bible belt", but certainly not exclusively, no politician who wants to win, or stay in office is going to advocate the decriminalization of sin (except in Berkely CA).


This response is to both you and Maxwell.  I am to buzzed to make 2 posts, and I do not think it is needed.

Yes, the "Blue Laws" is for the SALE of the items, not the possession.  And ironically, Dale County (the Dry County to my West) is also the home of Fort Rucker, a large Army base.  So the only place you can legally buy alchohol is in the middle of the county.

The laws for porn here are supported by most of the population.  Remember, we are also the state which had the 10 Commandments in the Courthouse last year.  And yes, people here are STILL trying to find a way to get Judge Moore back on the bench.  A recent poll here had over 60% of the population believeing he was right, and should still be a judge.  (most felt that it was a local issue - not the business of out-of-state people = but that is another topic).

If the people of Dale County really objected to being "Dry", they would change it.  Here in Dothan, we are dry on Sunday.  20 years ago, there was a law here requiring most businesses to be closed on Sunday.  That was killed when the town got large enough to make that impractible.  I believe that even our "Dry On Sunday" law will only last anohter 5 years.  Between the current growth and the planned I-10 bypass in the region, that will also have outlived it's lifespan and will go away.

To me, this goes back to the Constitution.  If the right is not reserved to the Federal Government, it is the right of the state/community.  Morality is largely a local issue, and should be decided locally.  I know I shock people around here because I have a conservative California morality.

They are surprised that this long-haired Hippie looking dude has a Lesbian as a best friend, and is not ashamed of it.  That I go to church when I can, but also write erotica in my spare time.  I am a Christian, but believe in the right of any religion, as long as it does not involve unwilling human sacrifice.

(If a person is willing to kill himself/herself for their religion, more power to them - just do not kill anybody else while you are at it)

Contrary to what I am sure most people in here think of me, I am probably as moderate as you can get.  I am against Abortion on moral grounds, but think it should be legal.  I believe in LOCAL morality laws, but think that the Government should "stay out of the bedroom".  I support "Equal Rights" enforcement, but am against "Affirmative Action".  I believe in Social Programs, but see them as a crutch, not as a lifetime entitlement.  I believe in free healthcare for those that can not afford it, but not as a replacement for our current system.

With that last sentence, I wonder if some people in here will rethink how they see me.  Am I a rabid Conservative Republican, a Moderate, or just confused?

This response is to both you and Maxwell.  I am to buzzed to make 2 posts, and I do not think it is needed.

Yes, the "Blue Laws" is for the SALE of the items, not the possession.  And ironically, Dale County (the Dry County to my West) is also the home of Fort Rucker, a large Army base.  So the only place you can legally buy alchohol is in the middle of the county.

The laws for porn here are supported by most of the population.  Remember, we are also the state which had the 10 Commandments in the Courthouse last year.  And yes, people here are STILL trying to find a way to get Judge Moore back on the bench.  A recent poll here had over 60% of the population believeing he was right, and should still be a judge.  (most felt that it was a local issue - not the business of out-of-state people = but that is another topic).

If the people of Dale County really objected to being "Dry", they would change it.  Here in Dothan, we are dry on Sunday.  20 years ago, there was a law here requiring most businesses to be closed on Sunday.  That was killed when the town got large enough to make that impractible.  I believe that even our "Dry On Sunday" law will only last anohter 5 years.  Between the current growth and the planned I-10 bypass in the region, that will also have outlived it's lifespan and will go away.

To me, this goes back to the Constitution.  If the right is not reserved to the Federal Government, it is the right of the state/community.  Morality is largely a local issue, and should be decided locally.  I know I shock people around here because I have a conservative California morality.

They are surprised that this long-haired Hippie looking dude has a Lesbian as a best friend, and is not ashamed of it.  That I go to church when I can, but also write erotica in my spare time.  I am a Christian, but believe in the right of any religion, as long as it does not involve unwilling human sacrifice.

(If a person is willing to kill himself/herself for their religion, more power to them - just do not kill anybody else while you are at it)

Contrary to what I am sure most people in here think of me, I am probably as moderate as you can get.  I am against Abortion on moral grounds, but think it should be legal.  I believe in LOCAL morality laws, but think that the Government should "stay out of the bedroom".  I support "Equal Rights" enforcement, but am against "Affirmative Action".  I believe in Social Programs, but see them as a crutch, not as a lifetime entitlement.  I believe in free healthcare for those that can not afford it, but not as a replacement for our current system.

With that last sentence, I wonder if some people in here will rethink how they see me.  Am I a rabid Conservative Republican, a Moderate, or just confused?


I include your whole quote here not because I will rerspond to it point by point but because it demnonstrates what I have thought since we first encountered, which is that you are a reasonable, thoughtful, intelligent (and I just learned maybe a bit kinky ;)) person.  There is little that I can disagree with in what you say.  Let me make one point though, for your consideration.  You say you support "social programs" to help people get back on their feet, but oppose affirmative action.  Let me propose to you that affirmative action (hireing an equally qualified minority over a white) is, in may ways, the same as the (hopefully) short term provision of food stamps and AFDC.  I would suggest that when minorities occupy the same positions, statistcally, as whites, than we can do away with affirmatire action.  That is to say, to quote Martin, when all people "are judged by the content of their character" then we can close the door on this most ugly part of our history.  I wish we could say the job is done, but, my friend (and I mean that) we have a long way to go.

So, to answer your question, I'm not going to charachterise you.  You are obviously intelligent and to some extent well informed.  You clearly understand issues and  think about them.  You raise issues that are legit and need to be addressed.  I do think, though, that often your conclusions are somewhat disconnected from the values you express.

Yes, yes it is.  Thank you.
But some parents go overboard with hitting....It happened to me....and I did nothing to deserve it most of the time...I endured things like being thrown on the kitchen floor...being thrown up against walls...my first foster mother breaking my most treasured posessions given to me by my birth mother..what a WITCH she was!! That goes to show people that there can be such a thing as spanking becoming ABUSE.

But some parents go overboard with hitting....It happened to me....and I did nothing to deserve it most of the time...I endured things like being thrown on the kitchen floor...being thrown up against walls...my first foster mother breaking my most treasured posessions given to me by my birth mother..what a WITCH she was!! That goes to show people that there can be such a thing as spanking becoming ABUSE.


What you went through TonyFan was not an act of discipline. It was physical (and emotional) abuse. If people don't recognise the difference between disciplinary spanking (esp. below the age of 9/10) and physical abuse they will automatically side with the 'no spanking' policy. This means that the kids that deserve a good spanking from their parents don't get it and automatically think no one has no control over them and can do what they wish ('you can't hit me, I know my rights').

Also, I am glad that the British government recently saw sense and agreed that parents have the right to discipline their children via spanking - as long as it doesn't bruise (or something like that).

My father slapped me when I was out of line. He never beat me, but he let me know when I had crossed the line. That all ended of course the day he went to hit me and I hit back. I can still remember the two of us fighting on the lawn and my mother hitting the two of us with her cane trying to break it up ;D

And even though I turned out pretty well, I could never see myself laying a finger on a child.

As a mother of 3 kids, I have to say your statement is rather offensive...sure some kids are rude, arrogant, etc., but not all of them.  I have had run-ins with people who hate ALL kids and let me tell you, my kids behave better than some of them. ::)


I'm sorry if it was a bit of a blanket statement. I obviously don't refer to every individual, that would make me a racist. I do know a few polite and well behaved children myself, but it's a significant drop from several years ago, as physical discipline is now looked down upon as abuse.

NO!!! The leather strap is definately NOT the answer.  Those who have been abused, abuse their wives and kids, and their kids grow up to be abusers.  There is SOOOOO much literature on this that I can't believe people still buy into it.  What does it prove to a kid?  That you  are bigger and stronger, and therefore can impose pain?  I was never shy about disciplining my kids, but beating them?  NEVER WAS AN OPTION.  There are other, MUCH more effective ways.



Did Anyone say abuse? No, we're talking in the sense of beating for the sake of discipline, not wildly beating children while in states of rage or sorrow. In response to what you are proving to the child, sometimes intimidation is the best way to get through. It's to-the-point. I know firsthand how it works, my parents used physical discipline on me, and I think it made me turn into a halfway decent person.

Ah, modern day liberal parents who can't see the difference between spanking and abuse.  They act like every kid that is spanked, even when its done right, will grow up with mental problems.  So since near everyone spanked in the 1800's and first half of the 1900's I guess everyone had problems, some logic eh?

Kids are a pain in the neck, and don't tell me they aren't.  They ruin your house, stain your carpet, and do all kinds of things you always have to in today's world act positive about.  No parent can get mad anymore.  Thats one reason I never wanted kids, EVERYTHING seems to be neglect or abuse or something, like everyone is suppose to be perfect.  Here are some other reasons I didn't want kids:

1.  The average infant sleeps 2.75 hours a night.  I am not going to deal with that.
2.  The AVERAGE kid costs 100,000 dollars by age 18 for food and clothes alone.  That doesn't include Christmas, birthdays, toys, doctor, dental, and whatever else.
3.  Your whole life has to revolve around them.


*salutes*


Sir, you are truly sent by God.

What hurt me was my father's piggish, misongynistic attitudes, and his crassness about sexuality.  Even so, as an adult I abominate misogyny, male chauvinism, and all that my father represented.  He was an anti-role model, if you will.


Beautiful. Simply beautiful. One of the things all of us in SI-MAE hate is male chauvinism and the like. Thank you.

Beautiful. Simply beautiful. One of the things all of us in SI-MAE hate is male chauvinism and the like. Thank you.


What does SI-MAE stand for? Sorry if you have said it previously.

What does SI-MAE stand for? Sorry if you have said it previously.



It's okay, you may have not read our lesser-known Blink182 parody. {or our other one, for that matter} In that song's comment area, some one asked what SI-MAE stood for. Here I will clarify:


There are 5 members of SI-MAE, two with accounts on inthe00s. I am one of them, the other is Apricot. The other 3 members are as follows:


Crystal Shades
Icy
Father Edmund


Have you figured it out yet? If not, here's where SI-MAE comes from:

Crystal Shades, Icy, Maya, Apricot, Father Edmund.


There you go.The order means nothing really, we just picked it because it could be pronounced easily. It's pronounced like the words "sigh" and "may". Thanks!

It's okay, you may have not read our lesser-known Blink182 parody. {or our other one, for that matter} In that song's comment area, some one asked what SI-MAE stood for. Here I will clarify:


There are 5 members of SI-MAE, two with accounts on inthe00s. I am one of them, the other is Apricot. The other 3 members are as follows:


Crystal Shades
Icy
Father Edmund


Have you figured it out yet? If not, here's where SI-MAE comes from:

Crystal Shades, Icy, Maya, Apricot, Father Edmund.


There you go.The order means nothing really, we just picked it because it could be pronounced easily. It's pronounced like the words "sigh" and "may". Thanks!


Thanks for the explanation.  :)

Thanks for the explanation.  :)


Anytime! I'm glad to be of help.

Getting back to children, it seems alot of people are saying how much they can't stand kids, etc.  Well so what. No one says you gotta like them or live with them.  When I have been subjected ot a rude child or adult I let them know what they are doing is rude, you'd be surprised how fast they back down, as for the parents, unless you have a real psycho on your hands, they back off too.  Of course I have been told I have a look that could freeze butter on a hot skillet.  My parents were both raised with the switch never to far from their thoughts, and because of that they decided that they would not spank their children.  They never yelled, and they never fought in front of us.  We grew up by example.  I'm not saying we were angels by any means, we were kids, we got time outs and "that is not the way we conduct ourselves"  We were raised to feel proud of the way we "conducted" ourselves.  This was the 50's when most of the kids in the neighbor
hood did get slapped, spanked, beaten.  Well, we all grew up fine, have jobs, and are a supportive family.

slapped, spanked, beaten...add to that,for me in one hellacious foster home....thrown into walls,punched,thrown on the floor hard enough to hurt my back..having a prized possession of mine -given to me when I was NINE years old by my biological parents-a nice transistor radio-smashed on the porch by my foster mom..and I was NOT told I could call DYFS and report her...D*** Sally G.(the foster mom's...ahem....savage's..name)and D*** NJ DYFS...forever!

I hate kids. Children of the present day are rude, arrogant, vulgar, etc. I recently had a 5 year old child use the F-Word on me at a church picnic. This was for church, people. I've had other instances where children think it's funny to swear, insult, even attack others. These are 4 and 5 year olds.


What could be causing this? I blame bad parenting and the wipe out of beating. I don't refer to blindly and ragefully pummeling a child, I believe in physical discipline. It was used on me, and I turned out halfway decent. Kids today are turning into pigs, and at the same time, physical discipline is consider more and more child abuse. What do you think?
I blame it on the way SOCIETY has become, parents being irresonsible AND the saturation of CRAP...from hollyweird garbage pics to violent video games....ultimately it falls on the parents to do a better job though...just like it always has. I do feel sorry for parents today though because in my very humble opinion, these are the hardest times to raise a family :P

I blame it on the way SOCIETY has become, parents being irresonsible AND the saturation of CRAP...from hollyweird garbage pics to violent video games....ultimately it falls on the parents to do a better job though...just like it always has. I do feel sorry for parents today though because in my very humble opinion, these are the hardest times to raise a family :P
It's the same sicko society that produces abusive parents and also abusive spouses IMO. Some people just don't have respect for others.Our society is IMO getting meaner by the day-at least some people are!

I sometimes wonder how kids would turn out if parents started being PARENTS again. They try too hard to be 'friends' rather than AUTHORITY in their kids' lives.....kids need DISCIPLINE and GUIDANCE from parents,not just 'a buddy'!...The responsible parents are the kind of parents I wish I actually had.

It's the same sicko society that produces abusive parents and also abusive spouses IMO. Some people just don't have respect for others.Our society is IMO getting meaner by the day-at least some people are!
I agree :-\\

I sometimes wonder how kids would turn out if parents started being PARENTS again. They try too hard to be 'friends' rather than AUTHORITY in their kids' lives.....kids need DISCIPLINE and GUIDANCE from parents,not just 'a buddy'!...The responsible parents are the kind of parents I wish I actually had.
My boys respect the fact that my ex and I finally split up instead of fighting a lot.....after Blaine died our marraige..although getting stronger for a time.... really went down the tubes. They respect us both for not walking on egg-shells around them and being honest with them. We had the fortune to be friends with them but we were parents FIRST.... and they are better today for that :)

My boys respect the fact that my ex and I finally split up instead of fighting a lot.....after Blaine died our marraige..although getting stronger for a time.... really went down the tubes. They respect us both for not walking on egg-shells around them and being honest with them. We had the fortune to be friends with them but we were parents FIRST.... and they are better today for that :)


Very cool, RockandRollFan. When parents fight and talk badly about each other in front of the children, their role-models are questioned or even threatened. A bit of honesty goes a long way, well done.  :)

I sometimes wonder how kids would turn out if parents started being PARENTS again. They try too hard to be 'friends' rather than AUTHORITY in their kids' lives.....kids need DISCIPLINE and GUIDANCE from parents,not just 'a buddy'!...The responsible parents are the kind of parents I wish I actually had.


I always wondered where the notion came from that you can't be friends with your kids. My kids are 15 and 21 and I thank god that we are friends! They know I'm their parent, I know where to draw the line. I don't think you have to rule them with an iron fist to show them you are AUTHORITY. They're great girls, and of course why wouldn't I want to be friends with the two people I love most in this world?!  :)

I always wondered where the notion came from that you can't be friends with your kids. My kids are 15 and 21 and I thank god that we are friends! They know I'm their parent, I know where to draw the line. I don't think you have to rule them with an iron fist to show them you are AUTHORITY. They're great girls, and of course why wouldn't I want to be friends with the two people I love most in this world?!  :)


I agree.  You just need to know when to put the friend part away and be the parent.  I know I want to be my daughters friend, but I also want her to know who is boss.  I will not give on the rules just so she thinks I am a cool mom.  Of course she is only 6 now so it is easy...I still have the teenage years to go.

My boys respect the fact that my ex and I finally split up instead of fighting a lot.....after Blaine died our marraige..although getting stronger for a time.... really went down the tubes. They respect us both for not walking on egg-shells around them and being honest with them. We had the fortune to be friends with them but we were parents FIRST.... and they are better today for that :)



My parents split when I was 8-and like any normal kid, I hoped that they would get back together. But of course, that never happened and I learned to accept it. Even after long-term relationships with other people, my parents still to this day make little digs about each other. I used to believe all those stories that I had heard growing up about my dad from my mother-and the stories about my mother from my dad. It took me many years to realize that they both still harbor anger against each other and I have told each of them on many occations that I don't want to hear it. That is between the two of them. Unfortunately, too many people do that when a relationship splits. They put the kids in the middle. I am very happy to say that Carlos DOES NOT do that (can't say the same for his ex because I don't see her on a regular basis but I really don't think she does).

Both my parents really surprised me at our wedding. My dad thanked me for not "making" him dance with my mother. Knowing how they feel about each other, I wouldn't do that-I wanted my wedding to be a happy occasion and I knew they wouldn't be happy if I did that. They were on the best behavior that day. At one point at the reception, I turned around and they were dancing with each other-I was in SHOCK!!! They did that on their own. That was one of the best wedding gifts they could have given me. It showed me that sometimes parents can act like grown-ups.  ;)




Cat

I always wondered where the notion came from that you can't be friends with your kids. My kids are 15 and 21 and I thank god that we are friends! They know I'm their parent, I know where to draw the line. I don't think you have to rule them with an iron fist to show them you are AUTHORITY. They're great girls, and of course why wouldn't I want to be friends with the two people I love most in this world?!  :)
I'm NOT saying it's wrong to be a friend to your kids...just some parents forget the PARENTING part...

OI! You do know this is a conversation about Children's bad behaviour in front of a CHILD, don't you?! Sheesh! Some people never learn respect.

Frankly, I have never used a swear word in my LIFE. I think physical punishment is the worst of all. That doesn't teach the kid to behave well. It just teaches the child that you're going to hurt them, and you're to be scared of.

I really belive "sir" and "ma'am" or "madam" are just silly to say. Nothing against it, just sounds a little silly unless you're infront of royalty.

Believe me, I'm a child.

I know this first-class.

I would think that the last place I would use "sir" or "ma'am" would be to royalty.  I would
reserve it for someone who had actually done something, beyond being born, to deserve it.

OI! You do know this is a conversation about Children's bad behaviour in front of a CHILD, don't you?! Sheesh! Some people never learn respect.

Frankly, I have never used a swear word in my LIFE. I think physical punishment is the worst of all. That doesn't teach the kid to behave well. It just teaches the child that you're going to hurt them, and you're to be scared of.

This is where the grown up/child divide comes in. Quite often because both have a fixed way on percieving the other. Children view grown ups as 'squares' and grown ups view children as 'brats'. Sweeping generalisations on Maya's part may not help the cause. I hate to use cliches but we were all young once.

The fact that you are a respectful person is very nice to hear.  :)


I really belive "sir" and "ma'am" or "madam" are just silly to say. Nothing against it, just sounds a little silly unless you're infront of royalty.

Believe me, I'm a child.

I know this first-class.

I'm going with Danoota here. The monarchy doesn't deserve those respectful terms for the same reasons.

I'm just saying that to me, I'd say Sir and Ma'am in front of royalty. I would also say it in front of others, too, but to me it sounds more in place when you're talking to royalty. Nothing against it, like I said.

I think that some PARENTS should be taught CARING and COMPASSION right along with their kids. Especially if their 'darling'(s) tease and bully others!

It's when people go too far on the "friend" part that I have a problem with.



I believe that the line between buddy and parent is too frequently crossed or nearly crossed.  People believe that friends can't be disciplinarians. I say, it's fine to have a good relationship with your kids; but you are not their friend, you are the parent still.