Now that we have a political board:

Overnight the news was told that the Saudi prince has offered AMNESTY to any terrorist who turns themselves in.

To repeat the President Bush warning..anyone who harbours or supports terrorists will not have anything to do with us!(whatever the quote to that effect).

So, why isn't President Bush cutting off all ties with the Saudis-'our ETERNAL friends'????

Doublespeak? What's to lose?

Saudi Arabia only provides 8% of the oil we use..what? Oil prices will rise?We could put up with an 8% rise. .WITHOUT cutting off the Saudis our prices have already risen 40%.

Let Washington hear the outrage!!

How could we NOT cut off our all dealings with them?

 

Saudi Arabia? Terrorism?  Well...hrrumph hrrumph hrrumph.  That's about all you're gonna hear out of the Bush Administration.
Remember, terrorist and terrorism describe what the other guy is and does, not America and her allies.

Saudi Arabia? Terrorism?  Well...hrrumph hrrumph hrrumph.  That's about all you're gonna hear out of the Bush Administration.
Remember, terrorist and terrorism describe what the other guy is and does, not America and her allies.


"Terrorism" is a tactic used by those who believe they have no other way to "get the attention" of the powers that be, and will, I think, become more and more common, not just from Islamic fundamentalists either.  What the corporate world manages and their puppets in Gov"t need to understand is that, right or wrong, perople who feel powerless will "act out".  They may be misguided (like the Maura building and 9/11) but I think that until we base our policies on our core  values, like justice, equality, and freedom, we will never win "the war on terror".  There is no such thing, unless there is a "war on submarine warfare". 

And Max is correct.  We have supported "terrorism" (including Saddam's) so many times that it becomes hard to count (including arming Osama Bin Laden).

True  we supplied arms to countires who were 'supposed' allies i.e. Noriega, but once we were fed up with the way they began to act, we turned against them...The Saudis on the other hand supposed supplied the last thugs with police uniforms and cars to set up the road block to capture Johnson...and they did their share of funding other bad groups.
To stop the terrorists would mean to ELIMINATE them.

Then teach others it's ok to have different religious beliefs...These terrorists are killing because WE ARE AMERICAN,and don't follow their religious beliefs.

They will be FORGIVEN by the Saudi's based on their latest AMNESTY program. WHY? Because within the condemnation against the outstanding terrorists, it is OKAY TO KILL anyone who is not of their belief-which they did....Don't believe the errored story that if they murders of infidels they are not forgiven as THEIR BELIEFS state, if an infidel is killed that it is ACCEPTED.

sleep well.....


 

True  we supplied arms to countires who were 'supposed' allies i.e. Noriega, but once we were fed up with the way they began to act, we turned against them...The Saudis on the other hand supposed supplied the last thugs with police uniforms and cars to set up the road block to capture Johnson...and they did their share of funding other bad groups.
To stop the terrorists would mean to ELIMINATE them.

Then teach others it's ok to have different religious beliefs...These terrorists are killing because WE ARE AMERICAN,and don't follow their religious beliefs.

They will be FORGIVEN by the Saudi's based on their latest AMNESTY program. WHY? Because within the condemnation against the outstanding terrorists, it is OKAY TO KILL anyone who is not of their belief-which they did....Don't believe the errored story that if they murders of infidels they are not forgiven as THEIR BELIEFS state, if an infidel is killed that it is ACCEPTED.

sleep well.....


 



Where to start?  First, we trained at least some of the leaders of the terrist networks we are now struggling against (do the name Bin Laden ring a bell?  Thanks Ronnie).

Before the first Bush war there were acts of "terrorism" (ie actacks on our troops in foriegn countries - what were they doing there?) but nothing like what followed.  This may seem far afield, but you should read some Greek trajedy.  The "hero" always suffers as a result of hubris.  We are, and have been, the most huberistic nation in the history of the world.  Maybe its time for some humility and some healing.

We're probably on the same page of disgust.
I know the clarity of the OTHER terrorist issue is, we supported others inthe past HOWEVER theywere not a threat to us at the time ie.Saddam, when we saw he was misusing his power and possibly could direct it to us...we jumped...but he was given the warning AND chance to admit various times...this time the game went to another level.

Previously I put out the thought head on a talk show: by changing Bush from the power of President,do you feel this is a sign of weakness to the terrorist who WANT HIM OUT? If he remains president it will REALLY tick them off because they thought their actions could topple his control???

(I wouldn't know how they think, but if the reason all this is just to remove  Bush ala Jimmy Carter term, it hasn't been said)...if they are killing because they HATE AMERICANS..who cares who we have in office...so let's get rid of them first...AND PISS them off and keep Bush!!   

We're probably on the same page of disgust.
I know the clarity of the OTHER terrorist issue is, we supported others inthe past HOWEVER theywere not a threat to us at the time ie.Saddam, when we saw he was misusing his power and possibly could direct it to us...we jumped...but he was given the warning AND chance to admit various times...this time the game went to another level.

Previously I put out the thought head on a talk show: by changing Bush from the power of President,do you feel this is a sign of weakness to the terrorist who WANT HIM OUT? If he remains president it will REALLY tick them off because they thought their actions could topple his control???

(I wouldn't know how they think, but if the reason all this is just to remove  Bush ala Jimmy Carter term, it hasn't been said)...if they are killing because they HATE AMERICANS..who cares who we have in office...so let's get rid of them first...AND tick them off and keep Bush!!   


Glad you see something of the error of our ways.  In a post above you suggested "eliminating them" refering to terrorists.  Given that every suicide bomber believes he will be rewarded with seven virgins in heavan, that seems impossible to me.  We can kill thousands, maybe 100s of 1000ands but more will appear.  that's why I have said that the "war on terrorism" is like a war on submarine warfare.  Its a strategy and a tactic, a method, not "cause, issue, movement".  We need better strategies and tactics to defend against it, but we also need to address the reasons why people resort to terrorism and are attracted to terrorist groups.  I don't think there are any easy answers to this problem, and certainly no single answer.  Al Quida needs to be destroyed, but that doesn't solve the problem.

As to the relatrionship between this struggle and domestic politics, all I can say is that our invasion of Iraq has been the best recruitment poster we could have given Bin Laden. I think the Islamic fundamentalists would cheer for another term for Georgie, the "occupation pres".

A question that should be addressed is WHY ARE THEY KILLING US?
Are we doing wrong trying to liberate the democracy of the country-If we kill most of the terrorists how are the others joining forces to take up where the others left off.Someone needs some educating-which the terrorists don't seem to have.
The promise of virgins/ So why don't they all jump in to end their lives for paradise..I can't comperhend that..then wouldn't the average lifespan of the nationality/religion be 25?

Something is not right with someones thinking...

Killing all terroists off would probably come fromthe view that they are cancer and to kill off cancer, you get to its roots and dig them out and destroy them.

I'm no expert, I do see however the difference in thinking and can't understand why their way is so right but I am open to think there could be something to it.

They(the evil of the bunch), said it, they are killing us because we are Americans.
I prefer the alternative..they go first befor they get us. That's why we attacked! 

A question that should be addressed is WHY ARE THEY KILLING US?
Are we doing wrong trying to liberate the democracy of the country-If we kill most of the terrorists how are the others joining forces to take up where the others left off.Someone needs some educating-which the terrorists don't seem to have.
The promise of virgins/ So why don't they all jump in to end their lives for paradise..I can't comperhend that..then wouldn't the average lifespan of the nationality/religion be 25?

Something is not right with someones thinking...

Killing all terroists off would probably come fromthe view that they are cancer and to kill off cancer, you get to its roots and dig them out and destroy them.

I'm no expert, I do see however the difference in thinking and can't understand why their way is so right but I am open to think there could be something to it.

They(the evil of the bunch), said it, they are killing us because we are Americans.
I prefer the alternative..they go first befor they get us. That's why we attacked!   


As long as powerless people feel outraged by injustice, you will never stop terrorism.  You can keep killing, and killing, and killing, and killing, and terrorism will keep coming back.  It's like fighting fire with gasoline.  I'm not saying those who turn to terrorism are right, I'm just observing the dynamic that keeps terrorism alive.

A question that should be addressed is WHY ARE THEY KILLING US?
Are we doing wrong trying to liberate the democracy of the country-If we kill most of the terrorists how are the others joining forces to take up where the others left off.Someone needs some educating-which the terrorists don't seem to have.
The promise of virgins/ So why don't they all jump in to end their lives for paradise..I can't comperhend that..then wouldn't the average lifespan of the nationality/religion be 25?

Something is not right with someones thinking...

Killing all terroists off would probably come fromthe view that they are cancer and to kill off cancer, you get to its roots and dig them out and destroy them.

I'm no expert, I do see however the difference in thinking and can't understand why their way is so right but I am open to think there could be something to it.

They(the evil of the bunch), said it, they are killing us because we are Americans.
I prefer the alternative..they go first befor they get us. That's why we attacked!   



They are killing us because we invaded their countres, desicrated their holy places, and humiliated their people.  It's that simple.  Osama Bin Laden was our friend, trained by the CIA during the Reagan admin. until George 1st sent troops to Saudi Arabia (read MECCA!!!). 

Look, I'm not trying to defend these A**holes or justify what they did or are doing.  My point is that if we want to extricate ourselves from this mess, not simply by flying the last U.S.ians off the embassy roof (as in Vietnam), we are going to have to get a lot more sophisticated, a lopt smarter about who they are, and a hell of a lot more subtle.  Killing those who are willing to commit terrorist acts might be necessary in the short term, but if that is the overall stategy, and not the immediate tactic, it is bound to fail.  I remember a line from Casablanca between Victor Lazlo and the German Major, something like "you can kills use off, but for every one you kill, more will emerge.  Even Germans can't kill that fast".  Nor can we.  Nor should we try.  These people believe that they have grivances against us - right or wrong.  Those are what we need to address, not through military power, but through dialogue.  I'm not suggesting that Talban-like solutions are, or should be acceptable, and there's the rub.  How do we reconcile their fundamentalist values with our secular values?  I would also point out that, to a lesser degree to be sure, we face the same issue here between (c)hristian fundamentalism and secular humanism.  I raise the question.  I have no answer.

Which makes me cringe when gang violence erupts in America...they know there are gangs and sme who are in them but cannot cut off the heads to stop their growth...they say education is what's needed but we are culturally different with our neighbors, so how does one reach agreement?

Someone found a way to put out a fire of gasoline...we need that solution. :-\\

Which makes me cringe when gang violence erupts in America...they know there are gangs and sme who are in them but cannot cut off the heads to stop their growth...they say education is what's needed but we are culturally different with our neighbors, so how does one reach agreement?

Someone found a way to put out a fire of gasoline...we need that solution. :-\\


After Normandy, my dad's ship was tied up at Cherbourg, and he and his buddies flicked lit cigarettes into open gasoline cans to douse them - GO FIGURE.  I have no idea how to reverse the trends of hopelessness, violence, etc. that we are seeing.  If I did, maybe I'd be Secretary of St... No, not in this admin.  We DO need a solution, but a president who doesn't read newspapers, or evan the briefing papers he gets, believes that somehow he was "anointed" to the job, and sees the world in good and evil term is NOT going to find that solution.

If we want the "Pax Americana" to last as long as the Pox Romana or the Pax Bitanica of previous centuries we will have to learn to base it on recognition of those we seek to dominate.  I say this out of both self interest and patriotism - I like my life style.  I think others could be induced (seduced?) to like it too.  I want more control over it - SO DO THEY. 

These are very complex issues, domestic and international.  The last thing we need, though, is Wiatt Earp at the OK corral.  Who, by the way, if I have this right, was accuised of murdeering the Clantons after the shootout.

Yet one of the most recent men to take over (with a religious take), was 'knock down this wall" Reagan...riding in on his big white horse and by the outpouring of fondness..he rolled in and over the resistors....

I guess the planets have to line up to get in the mood for someone acceptable by the majority....

They are killing us because we invaded their countres, desicrated their holy places, and humiliated their people.  It's that simple.  Osama Bin Laden was our friend, trained by the CIA during the Reagan admin. until George 1st sent troops to Saudi Arabia (read MECCA!!!). 

Look, I'm not trying to defend these A**holes or justify what they did or are doing.  My point is that if we want to extricate ourselves from this mess, not simply by flying the last U.S.ians off the embassy roof (as in Vietnam), we are going to have to get a lot more sophisticated, a lopt smarter about who they are, and a hell of a lot more subtle.  Killing those who are willing to commit terrorist acts might be necessary in the short term, but if that is the overall stategy, and not the immediate tactic, it is bound to fail.  I remember a line from Casablanca between Victor Lazlo and the German Major, something like "you can kills use off, but for every one you kill, more will emerge.  Even Germans can't kill that fast".  Nor can we.  Nor should we try.  These people believe that they have grivances against us - right or wrong.  Those are what we need to address, not through military power, but through dialogue.  I'm not suggesting that Talban-like solutions are, or should be acceptable, and there's the rub.  How do we reconcile their fundamentalist values with our secular values?  I would also point out that, to a lesser degree to be sure, we face the same issue here between (c)hristian fundamentalism and secular humanism.  I raise the question.  I have no answer.


It was the Taliban that DESTRYED the states of Buddah, wiping out the oldest relics of that sects history!

We need to go after the terrorist..tell them/or not,we're coming after them and scare the  **** out of them.
Dialogue doesn't work- Saddam had 16 or more sanctions against him and he scoffed at it...mass bombing doesn't work, too many innocents injured. Go in attack chop their heads off and they'll learn!

When you do that,as proven so far, the leaders head for the hills(Osama), they hide in holes in the ground(Saddam), and they cower knowing-we are gonna get them..sooner or later!

Look at them run!
If a head does grow back,it will not be as big or we cut it off as necessary.
Come on people!

It was the Taliban that DESTRYED the states of Buddah, wiping out the oldest relics of that sects history!

We need to go after the terrorist..tell them/or not,we're coming after them and scare the  **** out of them.
Dialogue doesn't work- Saddam had 16 or more sanctions against him and he scoffed at it...mass bombing doesn't work, too many innocents injured. Go in attack chop their heads off and they'll learn!

When you do that,as proven so far, the leaders head for the hills(Osama), they hide in holes in the ground(Saddam), and they cower knowing-we are gonna get them..sooner or later!

Look at them run!
If a head does grow back,it will not be as big or we cut it off as necessary.
Come on people!





I very much understand this attidude.  The problem is, that the more b***rds you kill, the more emerge.  Have you ever seen Mel Gibson's The Patriot?  He fought because he was personally harmed.  From what I read, so do the terrorists.  And there is also the 80 some years of "western domination" of their lands, which, by the way created Iraq.  Much of this "blowback" is not of our contemporary making, but a good deal of it is.  Reagan funded the Mujhadine that led to the Taliban and trained Osama.  Our support of the Saudis (and the Bush connections with the Bin Ladens who invested in jr's Arbusto oil company) must give us pause.

We tried to "just kill them off" in Vietnam and should have learned that it just doesnt work - unless you are advocating genocide, and even THAT will not work.

These are complex issues that reqire complex long term solutions.  The OK corral gunfight is often the conclusion of western movies, but there was an aftermath.  Iraq is no different.