What did we like about Reagan as President, and what didn't we like about him as President?

he had balls. 

Pro: His work with Gorbachev on ending the Cold War.
Con: His entire domestic program and its legacy.

Quotes from articles I just read, since I was around and know what it was like when he was president but cant describe it any better myself.

Pro: "making it feel like it was always morning in America"

Con: "tripling the national debt"

One of the only complaints I had about him was that he didn't believe the AIDS epidemic (therefore refusing medical testing) until thousands of people suffered & died from it early on.

Quotes from articles I just read, since I was around and know what it was like when he was president but cant describe it any better myself.

Pro: "making it feel like it was always morning in America"

Con: "tripling the national debt"

Morning in America, before coffee!

Mega Pro: "Mr. Gobachev, tear down this wall"

Con: He outdid his stay in office!



Howard

Pro: The "Just Say No" to drugs campaign.


SmithsGirl

Pro: The "Just Say No" to drugs campaign.


SmithsGirl

Con: Ceding his authority to Lt. Col. North who was selling arms to our enemy, Iran, in exchange for hostages (which they didn't get) to fund an illegal paramilitary war in Nicaragua, which Congress forbade Reagan to support.

Con: declared ketchup as a vegetable in the school lunch program for a short period of time

Was Reagan a Heartless Conservative?

Was Reagan a Heartless Conservative?

No.  I don't believe he was heartless.  I just don't think he understood how poverty effects people.  I think he was out of touch with how the average person lives, and was not curious.  Furthermore, I think he had a fantastical view of Communism, Socialism, Revolution, and the developing world.  He didn't understand the real-world effects of the counter-revolution he was supporting in Central America.  Ronald Reagan didn't see the compassionate way and choose to be heartless.  He was simple-minded and unable to empathize.  This is why I don't believe he was appropriate for the Presidency.  I don't deny the character testimonies of Ed Meese, Peggy Noonan, Dan Quayle, and others.  It's one thing to be a wonderful friend, it's quite another to be a great leader.

Pro: The "Just Say No" to drugs campaign.


SmithsGirl


Unfortunatley, not many people were "saying NO" ::)

Unfortunatley, not many people were "saying NO" ::)


Pop culture Girl, how could you support the assine, "War on Drugs" which is Nothing more than a
Vietnam II

Our Government has become the Enemy of the American People, with it's INSANE "War on Drugs"

Con: declared ketchup as a vegetable in the school lunch program for a short period of time



That was the most stupidest thing he ever did. >:(



Howard

Remember when
Reagan said something like "If an alien extraterrestrial invasion would to befall the people of Earth, how would we Respond"

I read he said something like that.

Pop culture Girl, how could you support the assine, "War on Drugs" which is Nothing more than a
Vietnam II

Our Government has become the Enemy of the American People, with it's INSANE "War on Drugs"


Not coming from America and that, MasterSplinter, but I believe ex-soldiers from Vietnam would find your comparison dismissive at best.

Con: His "trickle down effect" economy.  No money ever trickled down to those who really needed it.

No.  I don't believe he was heartless.  I just don't think he understood how poverty effects people.  I think he was out of touch with how the average person lives, and was not curious.  Furthermore, I think he had a fantastical view of Communism, Socialism, Revolution, and the developing world.  He didn't understand the real-world effects of the counter-revolution he was supporting in Central America.  Ronald Reagan didn't see the compassionate way and choose to be heartless.  He was simple-minded and unable to empathize.  This is why I don't believe he was appropriate for the Presidency.  I don't deny the character testimonies of Ed Meese, Peggy Noonan, Dan Quayle, and others.  It's one thing to be a wonderful friend, it's quite another to be a great leader.


Maxwell,

But look at who he ran against.  Jimmy Carter?  Walter Mondale?  My paperboy would have been a better leader than Carter was.  Carter sucked as a leader, though I think as a person he was/is a fine man.

And look at who Reagan followed up.  Lyndon Johnson?  Richard Nixxon?  Jerry Ford?

Compared to that entire cast of characters he was a TREMENDOUSLY better leader.  By leader, I mean he was able to mobilize people behind his position, and energize the country.  Johnson-Nixxon-Carter basically led the country into a long, downsliding malaise.  This is why for all the carping people may have about Reagan and his programs, he was reelected in a LANDSLIDE.  And mind you, he operated with a Democrat-controlled congress!

That means that the "average person" who votes like him enough to sign him up for another 4 years.  He won 49 of 50 states in 1984.

Sadly, neither the Repubs nor the Dems today can offer up someone with the leadership qualities of Reagan.  If they did, THIS election would be a landslide too, because I think the country desperately wants a guy like that.

I'm not idol-worshipping here.  The guy had his faults.  But to make it look like "average people" did not like him would be to imply that the majority of Americans who vote are somehow not "average", and to deny his landslide reelection.

Remember when
Reagan said something like "If an alien extraterrestrial invasion would to befall the people of Earth, how would we Respond".


Actually Splinter, Reagan had an answer for that question. At a 1985 meeting he confided to Mikhail Gorbachev,
"If aliens attacked Earth, the Superpowers would 'cooperate'."

Just F.Y.I.!

What did we like about Reagan as President, and what didn't we like about him as President?
Pro: Nothing
Con: Everything

Con: Ceding his authority to Lt. Col. North who was selling arms to our enemy, Iran, in exchange for hostages (which they didn't get) to fund an illegal paramilitary war in Nicaragua, which Congress forbade Reagan to support.


....arms and drugs, Oliver North traded drugs.  "Just Say No"  ::)

Pro:  "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Con:  His handling of the AIDS diease when it first appeared during the 80's, the Iran Contra affair, and the "trickle down effect" economy.

Pro:  "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"




I tell you, sometimes I wish they would just put it up again.  Then again, they moved it to Texas, and I wish they would take that one down.

Pros-He was president in the 80's! He was an actor! He had experience!

Cons-Iran-Contra.

Seemed like a likeable guy, and a great speaker, but not big on most of his policies.

Cons that many seem to forget.

Fired the air traffic controllers and banned them from ever being hired by the FAA.

Laid off thousands of ship yard workers and ordered the closing of many Naval bases.
None of the ship yards in California were affected by this order.

Even though he was President of the SAG, Reagan was an antiunion President.

Cons that many seem to forget.

Fired the air traffic controllers and banned them from ever being hired by the FAA.



People always leave out the part where the Air Traffic Controller strike was illegal.  PATCO rolled the dice and they came up snake eyes.

Side note... Interesting to see that a "Master Splinter" initiated thread still has legs on this board !  8) I wonder what Andrew is up to these days? ???

Pro - inspiring economic growth through tax reforms
Con - the arms race, eliminating funding for mental health, the War on Drugs, supporting Pinochet, supporting apartheid, turning the GOP into a religious nutcase party, etc.

People always leave out the part where the Air Traffic Controller strike was illegal.  PATCO rolled the dice and they came up snake eyes.



legal or not it could have, and should have, been handled differently. In any event, the way Reagan handled the PATCO
employees paved the way for companies like Hyatt to treat it's employees the way they do today.

Pro - He boosted everyone's pride in America.

Con - Reganomics

legal or not it could have, and should have, been handled differently. In any event, the way Reagan handled the PATCO
employees paved the way for companies like Hyatt to treat it's employees the way they do today.


Companies have been treating people like dirt for centuries, it has nothing to do with the Patco incident.

Besides, Reagan approached the Patco strike fully within the rule of law.  Which is exactly how Unions like to approach their employers.

People in the labor movement like to point to the Patco/Reagan incident in order to make an excuse for their own failure to organize labor in the USA.

I grew up in Pennsylvania, one of the cradles of the labor movement.  Way back when, the labor movement succeeded in organizing plants, in a legal environment that was VASTLY more hostile to labor than it is today.  Unions have lost power in the United States over the past 40 years because they got lazy and bureaucratic.

legal or not it could have, and should have, been handled differently. In any event, the way Reagan handled the PATCO
employees paved the way for companies like Hyatt to treat it's employees the way they do today.


Abso right.  It is telling that 20 years after Patco the scabs who took the jobs were irate about the same conditions.



People in the labor movement like to point to the Patco/Reagan incident in order to make an excuse for their own failure to organize labor in the USA.

I grew up in Pennsylvania, one of the cradles of the labor movement.  Way back when, the labor movement succeeded in organizing plants, in a legal environment that was VASTLY more hostile to labor than it is today.  Unions have lost power in the United States over the past 40 years because they got lazy and bureaucratic.


90% on that one.  The union leaders were as treacherous as the government when it came to selling out the rank and file. During the Patco strike there was a big union convention in Florida, the heads of the major unions all flew. 

Pro - inspiring economic growth through tax reforms
Con - the arms race, eliminating funding for mental health, the War on Drugs, supporting Pinochet, supporting apartheid, turning the GOP into a religious nutcase party, etc.
I have to argue Mac, the trickle-down economics and tax reforms are what enabled us to afford the arms race, but our enemy couldn't, and by the end of Reagan's presidency the Soviet Union was bankrupt and falling from power. Ergo, thanks to the arms race, Reagan ended the Cold War for us without firing a shot!

As for the War on Drugs, maybe it wasn't well-thought-out, but with drug-related crime and deaths escalating, something had to be done. And the only reason we lost that war came in 1992 with the election of America's favorite pothead, Bill Clinton! Clearly by then, the public just didn't care anymore.

Your Pal,
Doc
8)

I have to argue Mac, the trickle-down economics and tax reforms are what enabled us to afford the arms race, but our enemy couldn't, and by the end of Reagan's presidency the Soviet Union was bankrupt and falling from power. Ergo, thanks to the arms race, Reagan ended the Cold War for us without firing a shot!

A lot of people make that argument, and while that might have been true in the short run, in the long run, it helped start the growth of a massive amount of government debt that we still deal with today.

America has a very real chance of going bankrupt as well, and part of that stems from cutting taxes while increasing spending.

As for the War on Drugs, maybe it wasn't well-thought-out, but with drug-related crime and deaths escalating, something had to be done. And the only reason we lost that war came in 1992 with the election of America's favorite pothead, Bill Clinton! Clearly by then, the public just didn't care anymore.

The War on Drugs was escalated in the 80s because of mandatory drug sentencing.  This has led to the crowding of prisons with drug offenders and the lessening of sentences for much more serious crimes like rape and murder.  Overall, the War on Drugs also costs us a lot of money as well.

It would be much wiser to legalize pot and end mandatory drug sentencing than take a hardline approach.

I have to argue Mac, the trickle-down economics and tax reforms are what enabled us to afford the arms race, but our enemy couldn't, and by the end of Reagan's presidency the Soviet Union was bankrupt and falling from power. Ergo, thanks to the arms race, Reagan ended the Cold War for us without firing a shot!

As for the War on Drugs, maybe it wasn't well-thought-out, but with drug-related crime and deaths escalating, something had to be done. And the only reason we lost that war came in 1992 with the election of America's favorite pothead, Bill Clinton! Clearly by then, the public just didn't care anymore.

Your Pal,
Doc
8)


Trickle down?  Trickled on is what we call it.

The war on drugs?  What war?  There are too many people making too much money.  If Reagan was serious about the war on drugs why wasn't Ollie North put away, being a major player in the arms, drugs, and money triangle?  They have a habit of leaving the drugs part out of the equation.