I know there's a lot of stuff been written about the post-Watergate era and how the American public stopped trusting the government.  But the thing is, and I don't know if this is a recent thing or not, but I don't think people, and certainly not my generation, can even think of politics as anything but a joke, and even the ones who do take politics seriously don't take politicans seriously.  I know Reagan is a very controversial president, but at least he inspires something besides ridicule, unlike every other president of that past thirty-five years.  I read somewhere that a good chunk of people get their news entirely from comedy shows; very few people my age get news from actual news programs, if at all.  The people whose political views we respect aren't pundits on CNN or talk radio, they're Chris Rock, Tina Fey, and Jon Stewart. 

The people whose political views we respect aren't pundits on CNN or talk radio

I'll give you that one, because I think its the direction more and more people are turning.  (I mean look at CNN's ratings, toilet city)



they're Chris Rock, Tina Fey, and Jon Stewart. 


Here's where I have to disagree.

While I do agree that politics is a dirty business and that very little of it can be taken seriously, perhaps you feel the way you do about it because...you are getting your information from comedians?

Re: Have we lost the ability to take politicans seriously?

Did we ever ?? ?? ??  I mean seriously - in any country in the past 100 years ?  Ever ?  They are just puppets who we stupidly pay to be figureheads.

I know there's a lot of stuff been written about the post-Watergate era and how the American public stopped trusting the government.  But the thing is, and I don't know if this is a recent thing or not, but I don't think people, and certainly not my generation, can even think of politics as anything but a joke, and even the ones who do take politics seriously don't take politicans seriously.   I read somewhere that a good chunk of people get their news entirely from comedy shows; very few people my age get news from actual news programs, if at all.  The people whose political views we respect aren't pundits on CNN or talk radio, they're Chris Rock, Tina Fey, and Jon Stewart.

I believe I'm about 8 or 9 years older then you, and I can tell you honestly that a decade ago a lot of 18 and 19 year olds were getting their political news from younger versions of Jay Leno, David Letterman, and Conan O'Brian.  I seem to remember Jon Stewart was around back then too, though at the time he didn't have that "Look at me, I'm proud to be a middle aged man" styled grey hair back in the early-mid 1990's.  It doesn't say much about people though if they don't bother to read or watch the news, and stick to late night comedians for information about the world. So this is nothing new, in America it at least goes back to the 1970's that the majority of the public held a cyncial view of politics, what with Watergate, Vietnam, high crime and unemployment.  Mark Twain also saw the polticians of the 1800's as scumbags not worth trusting.     

I know Reagan is a very controversial president, but at least he inspires something besides ridicule, unlike every other president of that past thirty-five years

He IS controversial. 

It seems like most folks see him in two different lights, with not much grey in beteween.  Some people get really offended if you dare to take issue with Ronald Reagan, he's a sacred cow that should be untouched. It's sacriligious to critisize him because they believe he had tremendous honor and dignity, while ruling with an iron fist that they feel was demanded in the waning years of the Cold War.  These people see an innocent, All-American, "outside the Washington beltway" Jimmy Stewart charm, blended with an old fashioned tough-guy John Wayne persona, and modern (at the time) crack commando Ramboesque macho bravado style in Ronald Reagan.  Like JFK, he'll always have a following because of this mystique.

Then others see him as the Hollywood actor turned politician/President, the ultimate river boat con-man in a sleazy checkered white suit and top hat that used his California charm and charisma to dupe millions with clever misdirection and hokey platitudes.  His election commericials often had a similar style.  To these other folks those commericials that showed supposedly decent middle American farmers toiling away in the fields and then wiping the sweat off their brow and subsequently tipping their hat to Ronald Reagan and "the American way" come across as more laughingly comedic then genuine.

Did we ever ?? ?? ??  I mean seriously - in any country in the past 100 years ?  Ever ?  They are just puppets who we stupidly pay to be figureheads.



Excellent point.

All politicians are the same.  They just say different things.


They say and do what will satisfy their voters to get elected into office.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Did we ever ?? ?? ??  I mean seriously - in any country in the past 100 years ?  Ever ?

I don't know, since I've only taken up about twenty of those years, but you rarely hear people talk smack about, say, Truman.

I will tell you first off that i'm canadian. I've seen the comedy stylings of Dennis Miller and John Stewart. And i'll tell ya, they both have excellent points.

But when it comes to the reasons for invading Iraq, John Stewart makes the most obvious observasions for why the U.S should not have invaded unilaterately.

C'mon people. Are you seriously happy with invading a country, costing you billions of dollars just to liberate a country that celebrated in the streets after 9-11? They don't give a lick about you or your beliefs. And after the whole POW scandal that is now ongoing , they don't see you any different than they saw Saddam.

I as a canadian would have been behind you 100% if I had of believed that Iraq was an imminent threat to you or anyone else in the world. But unfortunately there are greater evils in this world that are a greater threat to you and us as well. And they (Osama) should have been dealt with first.

I don't think there would've been a problem in Iraq if it would've been handled by the U.N. Yes I know that the U.N is corrupt , but it would have been easier for the people of Iraq to take if it would have been handled by the world and not just the U.S. They don't trust you, accept that. Wheter or not it is justified admit it. 

Excellent point.

All politicians are the same.  They just say different things.


They say and do what will satisfy their voters to get elected into office.  Nothing more, nothing less.
Unless you include "Slick-Willy" with his glass-top desk so he could see who he was having sex with....oh wait, that wasn't real sex.....or how he recieved all those illegal campaign contributions, though he's not alone I'm sure....and lest we forget how he freed a bunch of criminals on his last day in office....the comedians certainly don't want to talk about that, much less anyone else....especially Hollyweird ::)

I couldn't take a politician seriously if I tried...

Strange beasts, too - you can easily tell when they're lying...their lips move...!

Unless you include "Slick-Willy" with his glass-top desk so he could see who he was having sex with....oh wait, that wasn't real sex.....or how he recieved all those illegal campaign contributions, though he's not alone I'm sure....and lest we forget how he freed a bunch of criminals on his last day in office....the comedians certainly don't want to talk about that, much less anyone else....especially Hollyweird

There is no way you can honestly believe that Clinton got a pass from comedians.  My God, everyone became a comedian when Clinton took office.

I couldn't take a politician seriously if I tried...

Strange beasts, too - you can easily tell when they're lying...their lips move...!


I can't speak for anywhere else but in Britain, they all seem either tedious, eccentric or up themselves.  :(

Unless you include "Slick-Willy" with his glass-top desk so he could see who he was having sex with....oh wait, that wasn't real sex.....or how he recieved all those illegal campaign contributions, though he's not alone I'm sure....and lest we forget how he freed a bunch of criminals on his last day in office....the comedians certainly don't want to talk about that, much less anyone else....especially Hollyweird ::)



Yes, Clinton lied about sex. But look what Bush lied about. Where are those WMD that Iraq was supposed to have? He was SURE they were there, so he said considering all the reports pointed to the fact that were none. The fact is that the neocons wanted to invade Iraq and would use any excuse to do it. How many people have died because of THAT lie? How many people died because of Clinton's lie?


As for the commedians view of politicians, I think they are a little freer with their opinions than the commentaries of CNN or Fox News because they can present things as satire where the news networks are owned by big business who basically owns Washington also. Look at what happened to ABC's Nightline last week. The fact is that the Media is censored. The only places I have seen (or heard) news that isn't quite as bias are NPR and C-Span.



Cat

I know Reagan is a very controversial president, but at least he inspires something besides ridicule, unlike every other president of that past thirty-five years.

He does?  I thought Reagan's main attribute as president was a bit like Zaphod in HHGTTG: not so much to wield power as to distract attention from it.  When he was elected, nobody this side of the Atlantic could believe it...


I read somewhere that a good chunk of people get their news entirely from comedy shows; very few people my age get news from actual news programs, if at all. 

Rory Bremner (an impressionist who's become much more satirical over the years, and loads better for it) does an incredible job at showing how ridiculous they are, some of the things we take as "normal" - his "Between Iraq and a hard place" episode, where he talked about the run-up to the war in Iraq, is satirical news-reporting at its very best, and should be compulsory viewing, IMO. You can still download it (in Real Video, plusthe transcript) from the Channel 4 website


They say and do what will satisfy their voters to get elected into office.  Nothing more, nothing less.

That's the problem with democracy: we get the people we vote for.  It's our own idiocy which means we vote for people we wouldn't trust to wash our car let alone run a country - what it means is the selection criteria become not "who is best at running the country", but "who is best at making people believe it" - a political system which rewards the ability to tell lies over the ability to do what's right.  Democracy sucks.

Yes, Clinton lied about sex. But look what Bush lied about. Where are those WMD that Iraq was supposed to have? He was SURE they were there, so he said considering all the reports pointed to the fact that were none. The fact is that the neocons wanted to invade Iraq and would use any excuse to do it. How many people have died because of THAT lie? How many people died because of Clinton's lie?


As for the commedians view of politicians, I think they are a little freer with their opinions than the commentaries of CNN or Fox News because they can present things as satire where the news networks are owned by big business who basically owns Washington also. Look at what happened to ABC's Nightline last week. The fact is that the Media is censored. The only places I have seen (or heard) news that isn't quite as bias are NPR and C-Span.



Cat
Okay, Bush has us over there....Clinton released a bunch of criminals back into society....I hate politics from either side anymore, Cat :-\\

I have never taken politicians seriously, and probably will never.  IMO, they are all "spin doctors", just saying what their constituents want to hear, putting their own spin on any situation to make it seem acceptable by the general public.  Republicans bash Democrats and vice versa;  personally, I'm tired of it, it's getting old.  I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them, and I really shouldn't be throwing anyone with my bad knee ;)
I'm tired of this also.  If I bring up Clinton, people bring up Bush...before Bush they brought up Reagan...so I brought up LBJ....I think I'll leave the arguing to the people with the passion for politics...I've all but lost mine....sorry about you knee, 80s_cheerleader :-\\

@Catwoman:   I wholeheartedly agree. 

Yes, Clinton lied about sex. But look what Bush lied about. Where are those WMD that Iraq was supposed to have? He was SURE they were there, so he said considering all the reports pointed to the fact that were none. The fact is that the neocons wanted to invade Iraq and would use any excuse to do it. How many people have died because of THAT lie? How many people died because of Clinton's lie?


As for the commedians view of politicians, I think they are a little freer with their opinions than the commentaries of CNN or Fox News because they can present things as satire where the news networks are owned by big business who basically owns Washington also. Look at what happened to ABC's Nightline last week. The fact is that the Media is censored. The only places I have seen (or heard) news that isn't quite as bias are NPR and C-Span.

I don't think I will ever take politicians seriously.  How could I???  Look at our history...it speaks for itself.  Right now...we are experiencing "Bush 2:  The Sequel  (Weapons of Mass Destruction)".  Yikes!!!! :o

Who needs Bruce Willis when we have Dubya....LOL?

Maybe the whole thing simply has to do with how the human mind is evolving in this day and age. Maybe it's not just one or a few politicians we can't seem to like or trust but humans in general.  For example, Boston Rob plays Survivor to win, he loses but cuts his loss by marrying the winner. I look in his eyes and can't tell what's there.  OJ's situation is similar in some aspects, if he's actually guilty, the case boiled down to just winning, using the system against itself, no emotion, feelings, truth??, etc.  We humans created the system, so we can defeat it.  Anyone know what I'm talking about? Probably not but I'm just trying to figure it all out :D

Okay, Bush has us over there....Clinton released a bunch of criminals back into society....I hate politics from either side anymore, Cat :-\\



So do I. Unfortunately it is an evil necessity. Most of them (VERY few exceptions) on BOTH sides of the isle are only out for their own interests. It doesn't matter what party they say they belong to. That is why with most elections we have to vote for the lesser of two evils and not for a candidate who will do what he/she promises, and basically makes life better for us little people down here on Earth instead of just making things better for people in that ivory tower called Capital Hill or the White House (and the corperations who put them there).



Cat

So do I. Unfortunately it is an evil necessity. Most of them (VERY few exceptions) on BOTH sides of the isle are only out for their own interests. It doesn't matter what party they say they belong to. That is why with most elections we have to vote for the lesser of two evils and not for a candidate who will do what he/she promises, and basically makes life better for us little people down here on Earth instead of just making things better for people in that ivory tower called Capital Hill or the White House (and the corperations who put them there).



Cat
I totally agree with you, Cat....Politics ::)

I can't speak for anywhere else but in Britain, they all seem either tedious, eccentric or up themselves.  :(


Just the same here, Bobby.  Most of our politicians (and there are far too many of them) are just in it for the money and the lurks and perks. >:(

So do I. Unfortunately it is an evil necessity. Most of them (VERY few exceptions) on BOTH sides of the isle are only out for their own interests.


And what is really sad is that the public keeps electing these guys.  It drives me insane.  I live in a state with a "Senator for life" who ran on the platform that his predecessor had been in office too long and they needed a fresh outlook.  Well he has been in office longer than the previous guy now and had no intention of leaving.  "His" work isn't done yet.  I can't stand the man.

He does?  I thought Reagan's main attribute as president was a bit like Zaphod in HHGTTG: not so much to wield power as to distract attention from it.  When he was elected, nobody this side of the Atlantic could believe it...


Bingo, Philbo!  There is such a thicket of lies surrounding the Reagan presidency, you'd have to use Agent Orange to cut through it.  However, I'm not going to go on one of my anti-Reagan screeds, tempting though it is.

Have we lost the ability to take politicians seriously?  No.
Can we elect politicians for their abilities, rather than how much money the can raise, if we don't reform the campaign finance system? No.
Why should I respect the Bush Administration?
THEY STOLE THE 2000 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.
Why should I respect the U.S. Supreme Court?
THEY HELPED BUSH STEAL THE 2000 ELECTION.
Why should I respect Congress?
THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY TO BRING ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT AGAINST THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES AND GEORGE W. BUSH, even though they were caught red handed.

I haven't lost my abilities to take politicians seriously, but we need a drastic overhaul of our campaign finance and electoral systems before I can.

As the 2004 election approaches, I recommend two books:
Greg Palast: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy
Vincent Bugliosi: The Betrayal of America

Lest we forget what happened in the last Presidential election, and who we are dealing with once again in this Presidential election.

Just the same here, Bobby.  Most of our politicians (and there are far too many of them) are just in it for the money and the lurks and perks. >:(


Has there ever been a president/prime minister who selflessly tried to put his citizens first for the good of the country?

Has there ever been a president/prime minister who selflessly tried to put his citizens first for the good of the country?

I'd say that Blair is probably as close as it comes... but it doesn't mean that he does the right things, or that what he does actually works out best for the country; but he's definitely not doing it for himself, and equally not for his party (which seemed to be Major's major motivation - keeping his party in power).  And he's still 100x more trustworthy than Michael Howard.  Not that that is saying very much  :(

So do I. Unfortunately it is an evil necessity. Most of them (VERY few exceptions) on BOTH sides of the isle are only out for their own interests. It doesn't matter what party they say they belong to. That is why with most elections we have to vote for the lesser of two evils and not for a candidate who will do what he/she promises, and basically makes life better for us little people down here on Earth instead of just making things better for people in that ivory tower called Capital Hill or the White House (and the corperations who put them there).



Cat




I agree wholeheartedly Cat. 

The Bush administration has done nothing but set this country back years, govern the biggest deficit in history, continue to pollute our environment by turning a blind eye to corporations that dump into our sky and oceans, give major corporations hefty tax breaks for sending jobs overseas, plus run just about the most currupt administration we've seen in a long time.  So John Kerry starts to look pretty good.  Then you find out things about him that are very questionable.  I think it is very sad that we have been at the point of voting for the worst of two evils for a long time now.  But we've all learned to take whatever lies these politicians like to tell us with a grain of salt, so what choice do we really have?  I wonder if they actually think we believe a word they say?

The scary thought that comes from this is do they actually believe a word they say? :o


They say whatever they think will get them elected, no matter how outlandish it sounds, along with what they think we want to hear.  I seriously doubt any of them believe their own hype.

I don't know why anyone would ever take a politician seriously, or believe for a second that they're not acting out of pure self-interest at all times.  It's what human beings do, like it or not.  A politician's job is to get elected and the ones that get elected are the ones that will say and do whatever it takes to make it happen.  Most people are capable of being very cynical about politicians who don't share their views and completely trusting of those who claim they do.  It's maddening.

I'd say that Blair is probably as close as it comes... but it doesn't mean that he does the right things, or that what he does actually works out best for the country; but he's definitely not doing it for himself, and equally not for his party (which seemed to be Major's major motivation - keeping his party in power).  And he's still 100x more trustworthy than Michael Howard.  Not that that is saying very much  :(


I guess so, Philbo. He comes across as an idealist which is much better than Howard, who IMO, is working too hard trying to capitalise on his formidable reputation.

Yes, Clinton lied about sex. But look what Bush lied about. Where are those WMD that Iraq was supposed to have? He was SURE they were there, so he said considering all the reports pointed to the fact that were none. The fact is that the neocons wanted to invade Iraq and would use any excuse to do it. How many people have died because of THAT lie? How many people died because of Clinton's lie?


Cat


Cat don't give me that.  They can still find WMD's.  Also the UN, CIA, Germany, France, and even your democrat John F. Kerry said they had WMD's.  You want to throw it all on Bush?  France and Germany and the UN cannot be trusted because of this oil for food scandal.  If you want to blame it all on Bush fine, i'll mix up some kool-aid too.

Okay no one trusts any politician.  Here is a good question.  Does anyone even bother to vote?  IF SO, WHY?  It doesn't seem like anyone should care either way.

Okay none of y'all like/trust any politician.  Here is a good question.  Do y'all even bother to vote?  IF SO, WHY?  It doesn't seem like none of you should care either way.


Yes, I vote.  Unfortunately, once these candidates get into office, it is soon forgotten by the elected official exactly why he or she was voted in.
They all have their own agenda.