Its something I wouldn't worry too much about. The discussion has merit but, the Hip Hop and R&B label is an undeniably nice definition of black. Toon just put out facts so, labelers are gonna want to see diversity in music genres of definition.

A African American is going to give you a glimpse that he/she is going to be interested in Hip Hop/R&B.
A Asian and European is going to give you a glimpse that he/she is going to be interested in Rock and Pop.

Yup! Not only that but out of Disco both Hip Hop and EDM were birthed. Out of Rythm and Blues (R&B), Rock and Roll was born. Insane the ammount of music genres originating from black Americans!


Yeah, especially when it comes to dance, party, get-together kind of music. A bit of a generalization here, but it is obvious when you realize that blacks tend to create a bunch of different dance moves/styles. Prefer to make things you can get up and move to. 

So many dance styles like the Bus Stop, Hammertime, Jitterbug, Set de flop, Hand stand, the worm, electric slide, moonwalk, running man, KC two step, dougie and a ton more.

Its something I wouldn't worry too much about. The discussion has merit but, the Hip Hop and R&B label is an undeniably nice definition of black. Toon just put out facts so, labelers are gonna want to see diversity in music genres of definition.

A African American is going to give you a glimpse that he/she is going to be interested in Hip Hop/R&B.
A Asian and European is going to give you a glimpse that he/she is going to be interested in Rock and Pop.


I suppose it isn't something to get too worked up about. My issues with the topic are something only I ever really obsess over. My problem is that it feels like black music is just getting a bit too limited. Made so many genres yet now only perform 1 or 2 of the same ones. But I'm sure this may change/evolve as time moves on. Just need a new artist willing to popularize something else which always tends to happen.

I hear what y'all are saying but Jazz, Blues, Disco, etc are not popular in the mainstream world. That's why the word Urban is limited to Hip-Hop and R&B. Those are the most popular genres of music and that is what gets played on the radio. So of course labels are gonna use that term, even if the music of the artist does not fit neatly into that mold. The word Urban connects with a broader audience when it comes to causal listeners of music. Causal listeners of music don't go out of their way to search for jazz or blues acts, they look for "urban" artists. It's marketing.

Furthermore, artists who embrace the urban label, especially when their music is more alternative than Hip-Hop or R&B, may even introduce casual listeners of music to a wider variety of genres because those genres are apparent in the artists' music.

For example, someone who strictly listened to urban radio in 2008 (which would include people like Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, The Game, 50 Cent, etc) might've heard a Kid Cudi song as well because the press puts him into that urban label. Kid Cudi often includes elements of alternative/rock in his music. So hearing his songs on "urban" radio and labeling Cudi as "urban" would've exposed heavy hip-hop/r&b listeners to different genre  of music. In turn, they may even seek out similar music and get put onto rock music. This seems to be true for a couple of people I know

I hear what y'all are saying but Jazz, Blues, Disco, etc are not popular in the mainstream world. That's why the word Urban is limited to Hip-Hop and R&B. Those are the most popular genres of music and that is what gets played on the radio. So of course labels are gonna use that term, even if the music of the artist does not fit neatly into that mold. The word Urban connects with a broader audience when it comes to causal listeners of music. Causal listeners of music don't go out of their way to search for jazz or blues acts, they look for "urban" artists. It's marketing.

Furthermore, artists who embrace the urban label, especially when their music is more alternative than Hip-Hop or R&B, may even introduce casual listeners of music to a wider variety of genres because those genres are apparent in the artists' music.

For example, someone who strictly listened to urban radio in 2008 (which would include people like Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, The Game, 50 Cent, etc) might've heard a Kid Cudi song as well because the press puts him into that urban label. Kid Cudi often includes elements of alternative/rock in his music. So hearing his songs on "urban" radio and labeling Cudi as "urban" would've exposed heavy hip-hop/r&b listeners to different genre  of music. In turn, they may even seek out similar music and get put onto rock music. This seems to be true for a couple of people I know

But are pop music, rock music and even electronic music not also "urban"? :-X

But are pop music, rock music and even electronic music not also "urban"? :-X

They are not currently perceived as urban (even though they originate in urban communities) and are also predominantly white.

They are not currently perceived as urban (even though they originate in urban communities) and are also predominantly white.

Yeah, that's the problem we're (or at least I am) pointing out.

I suppose it isn't something to get too worked up about. My issues with the topic are something only I ever really obsess over. My problem is that it feels like black music is just getting a bit too limited. Made so many genres yet now only perform 1 or 2 of the same ones. But I'm sure this may change/evolve as time moves on. Just need a new artist willing to popularize something else which always tends to happen.


You are exactly right. It will repeatedly evolve over time. Right now, its Trap associated music as far as AA's.

I laugh as there is a LOT of genres that were created or popularized by those who are black. For African American music genres the genres are
Boogie-woogie
Blues
Chicago house
Detroit techno
Disco
Doo-wop
Funk
Jazz
Ragtime
Hip-hop
Trap
Rhythm and blues
Rock and roll
Soul
Spiritual

These genres and some of their subgenres are known to have been created/popularized by blacks. The problem with the "Urban" label in modern music is that it neglects 80% of music with us only have Rap/RnB now. I'm not sure how or why this happened as it's almost like people today have forgotten a majority of black music that was played throughout history. Now I don't expect people to know EVERY black/urban genre, but when all a person can tell me is that black music "is like rap & r&b" it does disappoint me. The "Urban" label can be used to describe for a lot of black genres predating Hip Hop. For example, Jazz/Big Band Swing was played in urban environments and was represented by a lot of blacks. I don't mind the Urban label, but I am upset that nowadays Urban name seems to only relate to rap/RnB and nothing else.

I'm not the biggest fan of modern hip hop since I don't like the idea of all artists trying to give off this image of struggle, money, drugs, sex, crime, gritty/dark tone, Etc all the time. From saying the late 2000s - 2010s I'm mainly into underground (or somewhat obscure) stuff now since they have more fun styles.
hWAJtWpYczoZUPp5YjbSdQ
I get a nice vibe from some of the jazzier Hip Hop.


But hey this is all just me rambling.
Now if you want a full list of genres created by blacks, then Wikipedia gots you covered.



So many genres I didn't even know about. Probably due to a lot of them not being in my region (although I am familiar with British types like UK garage and stuff).
Yeah, this is what I mean. There is much more to black music than just Hip-hop and R&B, and that not every African-American musician is interested in producing those kinds of songs. I mean, here are examples black people producing non-urban music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSD4vsh1zDA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEHsIcsjtdI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWJrPzAUzAs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcwd_Nz6Zog


I hear what y'all are saying but Jazz, Blues, Disco, etc are not popular in the mainstream world. That's why the word Urban is limited to Hip-Hop and R&B. Those are the most popular genres of music and that is what gets played on the radio. So of course labels are gonna use that term, even if the music of the artist does not fit neatly into that mold. The word Urban connects with a broader audience when it comes to causal listeners of music. Causal listeners of music don't go out of their way to search for jazz or blues acts, they look for "urban" artists. It's marketing.

Furthermore, artists who embrace the urban label, especially when their music is more alternative than Hip-Hop or R&B, may even introduce casual listeners of music to a broader variety of genres because those genres are apparent in the artists' music.

For example, someone who strictly listened to urban radio in 2008 (which would include people like Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, The Game, 50 Cent, etc) might've heard a Kid Cudi song as well because the press puts him into that urban label. Kid Cudi often includes elements of alternative/rock in his music. So hearing his songs on "urban" radio and labeling Cudi as "urban" would've exposed heavy hip-hop/r&b listeners to different genre  of music. In turn, they may even seek out similar music and get put onto rock music. This seems to be true for a couple of people I know.
I understand what you mean that the term can introduce people who don't listen to urban music to that type of songs, but the thing is there are a few artists who are African-American who wasn't considered Hip-hop or R&B, and they were MJ, BEP, Rhianna, and Khalid. They are labeled as something else.

Dude. It is easier to market black artists to black audiences and vice versa. It's become pretty clear to me that when media says urban music, they are not necessarily referring to the music itself but are referring to the artists and the audience that listens, just like you said. Urban is not being used to denote the origins of the music.

When Jazz was predominantly black artists with a black audience, it was called black music. When Rock n Roll was predominantly black artists with a black audience, it was called black music. Same goes for the other genres.

Here's how it goes:
1. Genre starts off with black artists and a black audience
2. Said genre begins gaining traction in white communities and becomes mainstream.
3. White audiences begin to outweigh black audiences.
4. Because the white audience is now larger than the black audience, the genre begins seeing more white artists
5. White artists exceed black artists and now the genre is predominantly led by white artists and the black audience leaves the genre to create another.
6. The "urban" label is then dropped from said genre.

In 2018, we're having a conversation about why "urban" is synonymous with Hip-Hop and R&B and how it limits black artists, but in 50 years those genres won't even be considered  urban anymore. This process has already begun for rap music. It is the most popular genre in the western world and it's largest audience is white. The only thing that keeps rap urban right now is the fact that most artists of this genre are black. Once these rap artists get replaced, it will no longer be urban or black anymore and Hip-Hop's 40+ years of history will be forgotten.  So this conversation won't even matter anymore.

As far as other black artists being labeled as something other than hip-hop/r&b, that's also a marketing strategy. MJ wasn't always referred to the King of Pop. If I remember correctly, he was first called the King of R&B or something. It was changed to appeal to white audiences. It's all very calculated.

It is easier to market black artists to black audiences and vice versa. It's become pretty clear to me that when media says urban music, they are not necessarily referring to the music itself but are referring to the artists and the audience that listens, just like you said. Urban is not being used to denote the origins of the music.

When Jazz was predominantly black artists with a black audience, it was called black music. When Rock n Roll was mostly black artists with a black audience, it was called black music. Same goes for the other genres.

Here's how it goes:
1. Genre starts off with black artists and a black audience
2. Said genre begins gaining traction in white communities and becomes mainstream.
3. White audiences start to outweigh black audiences.
4. Because the white audience is now more substantial than the black audience, the genre begins seeing more white artists
5. White artists exceed black artists, and now the style is predominantly led by white artists, and the black audience leaves the genre to create another.
6. The "urban" label is then dropped from said genre by the music business.

In 2018, we're having a conversation about why "urban" is synonymous with Hip-Hop and R&B and how it limits black artists, but in 50 years those genres won't even be considered urban anymore. This process has already begun for rap music. It is the most popular genre in the western world and it's the largest audience is white. The only thing that keeps rap urban right now is the fact that most artists of this genre are black. Once these rap artists get replaced, it will no longer be urban or black anymore and Hip-Hop's 40+ years of history will be forgotten.  So this conversation won't even matter anymore.

As far as other black artists being labeled as something other than hip-hop/r&b, that's also a marketing strategy. MJ wasn't always referred to the King of Pop. If I remember correctly, he was first called the King of R&B or something. It was changed to appeal to white audiences. It's all very calculated.
I think I'm starting to see your point. I should have known that before the pre-hip-hop genres became mainstream, they were classified as black music by the music industry. I mean, Jazz, Rock N Roll (and even Hip-hop) were presented as the devil's music at one point, but that's most likely because those people were either haters or proud racists. I agree with hip-hop though. I have a feeling it will be no longer be considered urban in the 2030s or possibly in the next decade.

It's still strange how most non-black musicians are considered pop though by the music industry. There are tons I can name off where their music sounds urbaner than what they're branded as in their genres. I'll link a few examples.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph54wQG8ynk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_ub7Etch2U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycy30LIbq4w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vv-BfVoq4g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJuWlMFToNo

I never'd quite understood the label since a lot of Blacks live in rural and suburban areas as well. When it comes to African Americans society and most Blacks make a cookie cutter mold of what "being Black" is. I'm into a lot of mainstream Black culture, but I also have a huge interest in other things from other cultures that aren't normally seen as Black. I'm into anime,  pop music, Latian music, Nintendo, Geography and Poetry.

IMO "Urban" could imply any form of popular music that isn't considered "Country", which implies music that tends to gear towards rural and small town audiences and contains lyrics that are often more whiny or repetitive. Unfortunately, "Country" is seen as nearly exclusively white and tends to get a lot of flail towards non-whites, and in many places where country is popular, gospel is the only choice for them, which is the least urban of all black-oriented genres and isn't very popular in the mainstream. Then you have "Folk" often blurs the lines between the two and is generally the more grass-roots side of pop music.

As far as "too old", the proper term should be "too simple", as vocal dynamics were a lot less prior to advancements in modern mixing technology, even though there are some wonderfully written compositions, though of course if with lyrics, the slang used could be completely out of touch or too much of a straight path like many love songs, along with the fact that vocal styles change over time in addition to the instrumentation, production mixing, and lyrical content, and the "urban" genres tend to see the most rapid changes out of all of these combined. That's why most classic hits stations have dropped most of the '60s and early '70s, due to not bad music but a generation that feels that it being before their time isn't for them. Keep in mind that the first Generation Xers were born by many definitions after Beatlemania, and the first Millennials before their parents heard about what MTV is. 

IMO "Urban" could imply any form of popular music that isn't considered "Country", which implies music that tends to gear towards rural and small town audiences and contains lyrics that are often more whiny or repetitive. Unfortunately, "Country" is seen as nearly exclusively white and tends to get a lot of flail towards non-whites, and in many places where country is popular, gospel is the only choice for them, which is the least urban of all black-oriented genres and isn't very popular in the mainstream. Then you have "Folk" often blurs the lines between the two and is generally the more grass-roots side of pop music.

As far as "too old", the proper term should be "too simple", as vocal dynamics were a lot less prior to advancements in modern mixing technology, even though there are some wonderfully written compositions, though of course if with lyrics, the slang used could be completely out of touch or too much of a straight path like many love songs, along with the fact that vocal styles change over time in addition to the instrumentation, production mixing, and lyrical content, and the "urban" genres tend to see the most rapid changes out of all of these combined. That's why most classic hits stations have dropped most of the '60s and early '70s, due to not bad music but a generation that feels that it being before their time isn't for them. Keep in mind that the first Generation Xers were born by many definitions after Beatlemania, and the first Millennials before their parents heard about what MTV is.

There are only very few country songs that I like and 95% of them are "pop country" lol.

I just can't relate to country music because:

*Most of the songs sound the same.
*I'm not from a rural area. I'm a city boy.
*A lot of country songs are boring, IMO.
*I'm not White (let's be honest, 90% of country music fans are White).

There are only very few country songs that I like and 95% of them are "pop country" lol.

I just can't relate to country music because:

*Most of the songs sound the same.
*I'm not from a rural area. I'm a city boy.
*A lot of country songs are boring, IMO.
*I'm not White (let's be honest, 90% of country music fans are White).


I'm white and from a rural area, but I also can't relate to country music. I actually despise it tbh.

I agree about most sounding the same and being boring, bro country in particular is pretty awful imo. The only country I like is Marty Robbins and a few old songs like "Big Iron" by Marty Robbins, he's probably more 'western' than 'country' though and is an exception.

999RqGZatPs

There are only very few country songs that I like and 95% of them are "pop country" lol.

I just can't relate to country music because:

*Most of the songs sound the same.
*I'm not from a rural area. I'm a city boy.
*A lot of country songs are boring, IMO.
*I'm not White (let's be honest, 90% of country music fans are White).


Country is not the genre I focus on mostly either, but here's some country songs I actually enjoy. It just has a dreamy vibe just like some hip hop music where I care about the sound/beat more than the lyrics. Being an SEC college football fan has helped me out with a lot of this music too.

0ggKe409_F4

rf7GfUORHtw

8PvebsWcpto

zDo0H8Fm7d0

I love Florida Georgia line btw; and their group name makes me think of the World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party rivalry in college football, go search that on google and you'll see what I mean! Now once again like I mentioned before, race is so irrelevant when it comes to my taste in music. America is supposed to be a free country with so much diversity I could care less about that. As I explained before it's sad this country has been so divisive and worried about racial stereotypes these days. I'm gonna just be me and participate in what I feel is comfortable. I don't give AF what the majority of the black crowd or white crowd does.

I'm white and from a rural area, but I also can't relate to country music. I actually despise it tbh.
Well, that must be torture then :D.

BTW, where are you from?


I agree about most sounding the same and being boring, bro country in particular is pretty awful imo. The only country I like is Marty Robbins and a few old songs like "Big Iron" by Marty Robbins, he's probably more 'western' than 'country' though and is an exception.

999RqGZatPs

Yeah, that song is not bad. I prefer that over the country music of today.

Some old country music songs that I like are:

LwDMFOLIHxU

byQIPdHMpjc

0zDjnDAwmig

However, I guess that these are considered to be more "Rockabilly" than country.

Country is not the genre I focus on mostly either, but here's some country songs I actually enjoy. It just has a dreamy vibe just like some hip hop music where I care about the sound/beat more than the lyrics. Being an SEC college football fan has helped me out with a lot of this music too.

0ggKe409_F4

rf7GfUORHtw

8PvebsWcpto

zDo0H8Fm7d0

Yeah, those last two songs are among the few country songs that I like ;D

Well, that must be torture then :D.

BTW, where are you from?


;D I try to avoid hearing it when I can, but I've been hearing more often since I've been getting out more. I don't mind if other people like it, I just personally don't.

I'm from a small town in Central Texas, from the Waco area.


Yeah, that song is not bad. I prefer that over the country music of today.

Some old country music songs that I like are:

LwDMFOLIHxU

byQIPdHMpjc

0zDjnDAwmig

However, I guess that these are considered to be more "Rockabilly" than country.


I think the first song is decent, I like the last one, but all the second song makes me think of is Hannah Montana, lol.

;D I try to avoid hearing it when I can, but I've been hearing more often since I've been getting out more. I don't mind if other people like it, I just personally don't.

I'm from a small town in Central Texas, from the Waco area.
Gotcha! O0


I think the first song is decent, I like the last one, but all the second song makes me think of is Hannah Montana, lol.

Well, of course, it's Miley Cyrus's father ;D.

Well, of course, it's Miley Cyrus's father ;D


;D Yeah, that's why it makes me think of it. I never heard of that song before watching Hannah Montana, so it just reminds me of the show. :P

I hate most country music with a passion.

;D Yeah, that's why it makes me think of it. I never heard of that song before watching Hannah Montana, so it just reminds me of the show. :P

Same here. The song came out in 1992 so it makes sense.

I hate most country music with a passion.

Welcome to the club!

There are only very few country songs that I like and 95% of them are "pop country" lol.

I just can't relate to country music because:

*Most of the songs sound the same.
*I'm not from a rural area. I'm a city boy.
*A lot of country songs are boring, IMO.
*I'm not White (let's be honest, 90% of country music fans are White).

Wait, what? I seriously thought you were.  :o

Wait, what? I seriously thought you were.  :o

LOL, what made you think that? :P

Wait, what? I seriously thought you were.  :o



If you've known his posts and avatars as TheReignMan99 and Black Panther. He's definitely black (correct me if I'm wrong ReignMan) His posts always remind me of the younger brother of Eric (or Eazy-E-1995). I don't think you were on this site when Eric was on here more regularly. He's been very busy in his personal life lately. The Lion and the Panther.

If you've known his posts and avatars as TheReignMan99 and Black Panther. He's definitely black (correct me if I'm wrong ReignMan) His posts always remind me of the younger brother of Eric (or Eazy-E-1995). I don't think you were on this site when Eric was on here more regularly. He's been very busy in his personal life lately. The Lion and the Panther.

You got it!

If you've known his posts and avatars as TheReignMan99 and Black Panther. He's definitely black (correct me if I'm wrong ReignMan) His posts always remind me of the younger brother of Eric (or Eazy-E-1995). I don't think you were on this site when Eric was on here more regularly. He's been very busy in his personal life lately. The Lion and the Panther.

I know that his old username used to be TheReignMan99. But I seriously thought he was white this whole time for some reason. My life is a lie.  ;D

I know that his old username used to be TheReignMan99. But I seriously thought he was white this whole time for some reason. My life is a lie.  ;D

Like I asked earlier, why?

Like I asked earlier, why?

I don’t know, that’s why I said “for some reason” ;D

About the urban label:
To be honest, I've personally never associated the urban label with black people or "black things". Living in Brooklyn, I associate it with the vibe of the city, the club scene. Most of the stuff (music, clothes) which tend to be labelled urban is generally liked by the White, Hispanic, and Arab populations of my neighborhood. Fades? Tons here have them. A lot of white/hispanic/arab people here go to "urban" barbershops. They listen to hip hop, trap or reggaeton. I live in south Brooklyn, the "white bearded hipster" in plaid doesn't exist around here. The only times I've ever met people who could be described as hipsters aesthetically was when I was in College. Over here, you see girls going out in their stretch pants or even PJ pants, white guys, hispanic, or arab guys with baggy pants, a fade (or, in the case of most hispanic guys), a ponytail (not a man bun - just a regular pony tail). There's not very many Black people in my particular section of Brooklyn, but that doesn't stop the neighborhood from liking "urban" stuff.

Take hot sauce. Apparently hot sauce is a "black thing." I always thought it was just a city thing. I was turned onto it by my Italian/Mexican ex in 2012, who put it on everything, and now I do. So when in 2016 the whole Hillary hot sauce incident happened and you had people saying she was co-opting "black culture" I was a bit shocked. You go to a restaurant around here, even back in '12, and you hear people ask for it, of all races.

Then again, I view Brooklyn as the great unifier.

Take hot sauce. Apparently hot sauce is a "black thing." I always thought it was just a city thing. I was turned onto it by my Italian/Mexican ex in 2012, who put it on everything, and now I do. So when in 2016 the whole Hillary hot sauce incident happened and you had people saying she was co-opting "black culture" I was a bit shocked. You go to a restaurant around here, even back in '12, and you hear people ask for it, of all races.

Then again, I view Brooklyn as the great unifier.


Growing up I was always taught first that hot sauce or spicy things was considered so "Mexican", "Hispanic", or "Latino" long before I started hearing it being a "black thing". Either way, it's all a bunch of BS stereotypes. It doesn't matter who you are.

When Jazz was predominantly black artists with a black audience, it was called black music. When Rock n Roll was predominantly black artists with a black audience, it was called black music. Same goes for the other genres.

Here's how it goes:
1. Genre starts off with black artists and a black audience
2. Said genre begins gaining traction in white communities and becomes mainstream.
3. White audiences begin to outweigh black audiences.
4. Because the white audience is now larger than the black audience, the genre begins seeing more white artists
5. White artists exceed black artists and now the genre is predominantly led by white artists and the black audience leaves the genre to create another.
6. The "urban" label is then dropped from said genre.


This is pretty much how it's always been since the start of the 20th century. Jazz was birthed in the 1900s in New Orleans, by the late 1920s it had already spawned many regional subgenres, one of which would later become mainstream with white people in the 1930s. By the 1940s, Black musicians (and later the black audience) had already abandoned mainstream swing music, preferring R&B, Bebop Jazz, Gospel, or Rock & Roll. Eventually the same thing happened to Rock & Roll, and many people think the same will happen to Hip Hop.

One thing that many people often forget is that White people will one day not be the majority of the population, and Gen Z is already close to a 50/50 white/non-white population. The future of hip hop maybe completely different because of how America's demographics has dramatically changed, and with streaming, the playing level is much more even. Black artists don't have to "whiten" their music to thrive anymore.

I think Hip Hop is already approaching the 5th stage, but with a twist to it. We're now seeing Latino hip hop artists reach go mainstream (Cardi B, Lil Pump, 6IX9INE, Princess Nokia, Smokepurpp, etc.) as well as white hip hop artists(Post Malone, Bhad Bhabi, G-Eazy, Eminem, Iggy Azalea, Macklemore,...), and Asian artists are now becoming relevant too (NAV and Rich Brian). The question is, will young Black people still abandon hip hop?

About the urban label:
To be honest, I've personally never associated the urban label with black people or "black things". Living in Brooklyn, I associate it with the vibe of the city, the club scene. Most of the stuff (music, clothes) which tend to be labelled urban is generally liked by the White, Hispanic, and Arab populations of my neighborhood. Fades? Tons here have them. A lot of white/hispanic/arab people here go to "urban" barbershops. They listen to hip hop, trap or reggaeton. I live in south Brooklyn, the "white bearded hipster" in plaid doesn't exist around here. The only times I've ever met people who could be described as hipsters aesthetically was when I was in College. Over here, you see girls going out in their stretch pants or even PJ pants, white guys, hispanic, or arab guys with baggy pants, a fade (or, in the case of most hispanic guys), a ponytail (not a man bun - just a regular pony tail). There's not very many Black people in my particular section of Brooklyn, but that doesn't stop the neighborhood from liking "urban" stuff.

Take hot sauce. Apparently hot sauce is a "black thing." I always thought it was just a city thing. I was turned onto it by my Italian/Mexican ex in 2012, who put it on everything, and now I do. So when in 2016 the whole Hillary hot sauce incident happened and you had people saying she was co-opting "black culture" I was a bit shocked. You go to a restaurant around here, even back in '12, and you hear people ask for it, of all races.

Then again, I view Brooklyn as the great unifier.
Oh intresting, Brooklyn has changed a lot in the last decade with the rapid genterfication going on, but you guys in South Brooklyn still preserve the the classic Brooklyn vibe. Most people think of Brooklyn as being hipster or straight hood.

Oh intresting, Brooklyn has changed a lot in the last decade with the rapid genterfication going on, but you guys in South Brooklyn still preserve the the classic Brooklyn vibe. Most people think of Brooklyn as being hipster or straight hood.

Only Williamsburg and Downtown Brookyln is hipster and basically "mini-Manhattan".

The rest of Brooklyn is completely different. Also, many of the "hoods" are pretty safe nowadays. East NY didn't even have a single murder until a few weeks ago.

Only Williamsburg and Downtown Brookyln is hipster and basically "mini-Manhattan".

The rest of Brooklyn is completely different. Also, many of the "hoods" are pretty safe nowadays. East NY didn't even have a single murder until a few weeks ago.


Eh, it depends on where in East NY. My current girl grew up in the Starrett City projects and she said in the last few years of her living there (she moved out in 2013 or 2014) it was becoming unsafe.

Where I am though, I've never witnessed any major crime. It's generally a quiet part of Brooklyn. The only major violence I knew about was back when I was in HS there was a lot of fights between the Arab groups and Hispanics at Fort Hamilton, and there was always feuds over 13th Avenue around that time too. Certain people weren't allowed to go to 13th Avenue without there being a big fight. That's really the only crap I've ever seen. Nowadays all those crews are gone.

Lately, the past year or so, I've noticed a MASSIVE influx of the homeless, particularly of the disturbed variety. I've been living at my current residence for two years and there weren't nearly as many homeless people as there are now. One girl, she's pregnant, and she's set up camp for the past few months on the block. Sad. I've also noticed a LOT of stores - even ones that had been around for DECADES - shutting down or moving in the past six months because of the high rents. One store had been like, a landmark of this area from at least the 80s and then whoosh, couple of months ago, went out of business. I do believe the city may begin to get "bad" again in the next decade.

Eh, it depends on where in East NY. My current girl grew up in the Starrett City projects and she said in the last few years of her living there (she moved out in 2013 or 2014) it was becoming unsafe.

Where I am though, I've never witnessed any major crime. It's generally a quiet part of Brooklyn. The only major violence I knew about was back when I was in HS there was a lot of fights between the Arab groups and Hispanics at Fort Hamilton, and there was always feuds over 13th Avenue around that time too. Certain people weren't allowed to go to 13th Avenue without there being a big fight. That's really the only crap I've ever seen. Nowadays all those crews are gone.

Lately, the past year or so, I've noticed a MASSIVE influx of the homeless, particularly of the disturbed variety. I've been living at my current residence for two years and there weren't nearly as many homeless people as there are now. One girl, she's pregnant, and she's set up camp for the past few months on the block. Sad. I've also noticed a LOT of stores - even ones that had been around for DECADES - shutting down or moving in the past six months because of the high rents. One store had been like, a landmark of this area from at least the 80s and then whoosh, couple of months ago, went out of business. I do believe the city may begin to get "bad" again in the next decade.
Yea true, I grew up in Queens, but all of my family was raised in Brooklyn so I'm mostly in the Black neighborhoods in Brooklyn. I visted neighborhoods like Bed-stuy, East New York, Brownsville, Crown Heights, Bushwick, Flatbush, Carnise and I also visted neighborhoods like Park Slope, Bay Ridge and Dumbo. Brooklyn gets a tough repuation mainly because of the war on drugs, Italian Mobsters of the 20s and 30s and with rappers like Jay-Z and Biggie being from there. From my experience, if you tell somebody your from Brooklyn you automaticly get street-cred hence why so many hipsters want to live there.

Not sure I agree.  I don't recognize this phenomenon of supposed miscategorization.  Beyonce is one of the biggest artists out there, and she's considered more pop than r&b; same wih John Legend, even old schoolers like Stevie Wonder. Same with the late Michael Jackson.  Are they all "black music"?  I'd say so.  "Urban"?  Stupid term, but as a proxy for "not country"  or, again, "black" - sure, why not...  but of course those are even more nebulous terms than the other more traditional categories.  From what I see, artists who do more traditional R&B stuff tend to be considered R&B; those whose music tends more towards pop, or jazz, or hip-hop, or whatever, are labeled that way.  You mention exceptions in your post, but don't actually reference examples of the miscategorization you're asserting is rampant, so hard to discuss further...