How fair is it to not have the films available for fans anymore?  There have been several times where it was announced one of their films is going back into the vault (i.e. taken off the shelves, locked away, no more copies made) and I didn't have the money to get a copy :( I guess it's best to purchase them the moment they're released to avoid being too late.  I understand saving old film reels and not copying them just because they're classic.  However, I would think they can continue making blu-rays/dvds with these films just the same as others from several years ago. 

This may come off as a vent but the real reason for this topic is to get other people's opinions on the Disney Vault.  :P

How fair is it to not have the films available for fans anymore?  There have been several times where it was announced one of their films is going back into the vault (i.e. taken off the shelves, locked away, no more copies made) and I didn't have the money to get a copy :( I guess it's best to purchase them the moment they're released to avoid being too late.  I understand saving old film reels and not copying them just because they're classic.  However, I would think they can continue making blu-rays/dvds with these films just the same as others from several years ago. 

This may come off as a vent but the real reason for this topic is to get other people's opinions on the Disney Vault.  :P



Way back in the dark ages (late '80s-early '90s) when VHS movies were popular. I spent A LOT of $$$ of movies because at the time I lived on a mountain that there wasn't any t.v. reception (cable didn't go that far). Disney had all their classics out and of course they advertised that if you didn't buy them NOW, they were going to go back into the vault. For fear that I would miss out, I bought them on VHS. But then the following year or so, they would come out with "collector's editions" and then it was DVD or Blu-Ray. So, even if these movies go "back into the vault" they always come back out when the next media comes out.

In other words, it is just a marketing ploy to get you to buy. And these movies will always be available other places-Netflix, YouTube, Amazon, eBay, yard sales, Torrents, etc, etc.



Cat

Did someone say...Disney?

http://www.information-facts.com/wp-content/uploads/250px-Snow_White_Disney.jpg

I had several VHS' and I don't know what happend to them.  :(

I am trying to get as many of the classics as I can on the latest format, blu-ray.

I had several VHS' and I don't know what happend to them.  :(


a lot of them of mine are stored in my closet collecting dust.

This is actually not anything special.  And it is something that every major movie company does.  The only difference is that DIsney actually publicizes it, and announces when movies will come out, go away, and come back again.

You have to realize, Disney has well over 200 movies, and it is just impossible to keep them all in distribution at the same time.  Retailers would refuse to dedicate entire rows just to one company, and the administrative and other costs would be through the roof.

But to see what I mean, go to your nearest store, and try to find Citizen Kane.  Or Doctor Strangelove.  Or even Titan A.E.  Just not gonna happen more then likely.  Even movies like Gone With The Wind and The Wizard Of Oz are not constantly on the shelves, and are re-released every 5-10 years when supplies finally dry up and demand rises again.  Or like now, when the release of a sequel renews interest in the originals.

When Disney puts movies back into the vault, that doesn't mean you still can't purchase these movies in physical form.  Pawn shops, even online stores would most likely still have them

Mickey Mouse was supposed to enter the public domain in 1998.  Didn't happen.
If you have a nickel for Disney, Disney will grab it.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/bismaalbum/Mickey-Mouse-6.jpg

Mickey Mouse was supposed to enter the public domain in 1998.  Didn't happen.
If you have a nickel for Disney, Disney will grab it.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy359/bismaalbum/Mickey-Mouse-6.jpg


Actually, this is rather a grey area, and can be hard for people to understand.

Here, you have to realize the difference between copyright and trademark.  Now Mickey Mouse is trademarked, while Steamboat Willie is copyrighted.  It may be hard for some people to understand, but let's see if this makes sense.

Now the title and story of Steamboat Willie has a set time, and while Disney does not have to approve anybody that makes a copy of it, anybody that does copy the story is liable for the company for royalties.  The issue of "fair use" and "derivative works" is to complex to go into in a short description like this, but in general this follows the "derivative works" clause of the copyright laws.  Much like a parody performer.  Weird Al does not have to get the permission of the original artist, he does so out of courtesy.  But he is mandated by law to give them a percentage of his profit as royalties.

Now Mickey Mouse is a trademarked figure.  Much like the Michelin Man or Speedy Alka-Seltzer.  And as such, there are many more restrictions on the use of this figure.  And there is no expiration on the use of a trademarked character (basically the character has to still exist, and continue to be in use).  So even if this law was to expire tomorrow, you would not be able to use Mickey Mouse without the permission of the owning company.

However, you could use the story however you like once it expires.  Because once the copyright to the story or film expires, you could remake it with Bugs Bunny or Bart Simpson, and Disney can't do a thing about it.  And there really is little to no value of those old films.  After all, when was the last time you saw "Steamboat Willie" for sale at the video store?

This is rather new in many ways, because this part of copyright and trademark laws and the public domain are only now coming into play.  But it is really no different then say a piece of music.

Beethoven's 5th Symphony is in the public domain.  But a recording of such by the New York Philharmonic is not, because it is their own recording of it, which they hold the copyright to.  Anybody else is free to record it, in whatever way they want.  But if they use that particular recording, they need either permission first, or pay royalties for it.

Actually, this is rather a grey area, and can be hard for people to understand.

Here, you have to realize the difference between copyright and trademark.  Now Mickey Mouse is trademarked, while Steamboat Willie is copyrighted.  It may be hard for some people to understand, but let's see if this makes sense.

Now the title and story of Steamboat Willie has a set time, and while Disney does not have to approve anybody that makes a copy of it, anybody that does copy the story is liable for the company for royalties.  The issue of "fair use" and "derivative works" is to complex to go into in a short description like this, but in general this follows the "derivative works" clause of the copyright laws.  Much like a parody performer.  Weird Al does not have to get the permission of the original artist, he does so out of courtesy.  But he is mandated by law to give them a percentage of his profit as royalties.

Now Mickey Mouse is a trademarked figure.  Much like the Michelin Man or Speedy Alka-Seltzer.  And as such, there are many more restrictions on the use of this figure.  And there is no expiration on the use of a trademarked character (basically the character has to still exist, and continue to be in use).  So even if this law was to expire tomorrow, you would not be able to use Mickey Mouse without the permission of the owning company.

However, you could use the story however you like once it expires.  Because once the copyright to the story or film expires, you could remake it with Bugs Bunny or Bart Simpson, and Disney can't do a thing about it.  And there really is little to no value of those old films.  After all, when was the last time you saw "Steamboat Willie" for sale at the video store?

This is rather new in many ways, because this part of copyright and trademark laws and the public domain are only now coming into play.  But it is really no different then say a piece of music.

Beethoven's 5th Symphony is in the public domain.  But a recording of such by the New York Philharmonic is not, because it is their own recording of it, which they hold the copyright to.  Anybody else is free to record it, in whatever way they want.  But if they use that particular recording, they need either permission first, or pay royalties for it.


That's a concise explanation.  Thanks.
:)

That's a concise explanation.  Thanks.
:)


No problem, I have run into such issues myself in the past.  And this really is "no man's land" legally.

While most conventional movies go public domain and nobody cares, animated films are a totally different matter that is causing some issues in the legal community.

Take this example, Mickey Mouse.  He is trademarked, which does not expire (unless the property is abandoned).  But he is in a movie, which has a copyright which does expire.  So when that movie should theoretically fall into public domain, does the protection still stand because of trademark issues?

This is not a problem, when say the artist is Fatty Arbuckle, who is a real person and long dead.  There is no lawyer for a company that holds the trademark for "Fatty Arbuckle Suspenders", who can claim that somebody selling "Fatty Arbuckle Belts" will impact his business (how many even remember who Fatty Arbuckle is?).  But Mickey Mouse is still "alive and well" as far as a trademark.  And so a lot of that bill you cited is more or less "passing the buck" until more time can be spent researching it and trying to see what the fall-out is in other countries where that does not apply.

When Disney puts movies back into the vault, that doesn't mean you still can't purchase these movies in physical form.  Pawn shops, even online stores would most likely still have them


Like Ebay or Amazon.

Way back in the dark ages (late '80s-early '90s) when VHS movies were popular. I spent A LOT of $$$ of movies because at the time I lived on a mountain that there wasn't any t.v. reception (cable didn't go that far). Disney had all their classics out and of course they advertised that if you didn't buy them NOW, they were going to go back into the vault. For fear that I would miss out, I bought them on VHS. But then the following year or so, they would come out with "collector's editions" and then it was DVD or Blu-Ray. So, even if these movies go "back into the vault" they always come back out when the next media comes out.

In other words, it is just a marketing ploy to get you to buy. And these movies will always be available other places-Netflix, YouTube, Amazon, eBay, yard sales, Torrents, etc, etc.



Cat


You're surprisingly tech-savvy for your age

You're surprisingly tech-savvy for your age


What does age have to do with being tech-savvy?

You're surprisingly tech-savvy for your age


WTF are you talking about?



Cat

What does age have to do with being tech-savvy?


I know they aren't necessarily related, but it's not that typical is all.


WTF are you talking about?

Cat

I didn't mean to offend you. I was simply surprised, that is if I have your age right. But it's more a compliment.

I would like to move this topic from something that could be seen as age-ism (from this end of the telescope, anyway) back to what it was originally intended-

SO, to get back on topic, is there a list of the movies that have been placed back in the vault, does anyone know? One that I have not been able to find is Tarzan 2 for my youngest. He had it on DVD and now we can't find it..  :(

A friend of mine said he just got "Song of the South" on Japanese laser disc!
8)

A friend of mine said he just got "Song of the South" on Japanese laser disc!
8)


It has also been released in Germany and England.  But never in the US.

Interestingly enough, in Japan it is already in the Public Domain.  I used to have a copy I got online several years ago, but the quality was horrible.