I'm probably going to open up a can of words with this topic, but I couldn't help myself. I'm not just talking about whenever black people casually call themselves the n-word, because I'm pretty sure they've always been doing that, I'm talking about when people of all races do it. I personally don't like it when anybody uses it, but it especially irks me when people who are not black do it. It just looks so.....wrong.

The only time I may use it and listen to it is while I'm watching Blazing Saddles.

Honestly, I haven't heard it in years here, in Canada, thank God for that.

"When did it become cool for everybody to say the n-word?"

It's never been cool.  It's not cool to use racist words that are attached to years of abuse and discrimination.

Honestly, I haven't heard it on years in Canada, thank God for that.

"When did it become cool for everybody to say the n-word?"

It's never been cool.  It's not cool to use racist words that is attached to years of abuse and discrimination.


Well, it's become "cool" for a lot of people in society, that's for sure, although I agree with you on principle.

Because of general ignorance. I see white girls on facebook taking stupid photos with their friends, making stupid fake "gang" signs with their hands and captioning it "my niggah" (excuse the language). I just think to myself, "Are they stupid?"

Same with "fag". People love to throw that one around. I hear/see it almost daily.

I think My Grandma use to use it when I was about 3 or 4.  She wasn't using it as a bad word.  She was from Texas and I don't know what year.

Who told you it was cool for everybody to use the n-word?
:o

Who told you it was cool for everybody to use the n-word?
:o


I didn't mean to imply that. I guess I should have asked when it started.

I'm probably going to open up a can of words with this topic, but I couldn't help myself. I'm not just talking about whenever black people casually call themselves the n-word, because I'm pretty sure they've always been doing that, I'm talking about when people of all races do it. I personally don't like it when anybody uses it, but it especially irks me when people who are not black do it. It just looks so.....wrong.


That one's a complete surprise to me.

Lemme get this straight, cuz I'm an onion-on-his-belt kinda guy these days: are you suggesting that it's become acceptable for those of the Caucasian persuasion to drop the n-bomb (intending "my peer", not in its traditionally racist sense?)  Because that was never acceptable in my day, and it's still unacceptable amongst my somewhat-wide-age-range (25-and-up) and racially-diverse peer group of co-workers.  To use it as a white dude, even enunciating a "-a" suffix to make it clear that you didn't mean the "-er" suffix, even amongst my peer group of white dudes, would pretty much guarantee a well-justified ass-kicking.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely. But stranger things have happened. For instance:


Same with "fag". People love to throw that one around. I hear/see it almost daily.


That one I can sorta explain.

Amongst my peer group, it's unacceptable in verbal communication, and it's always unacceptable as a derogatory term for homosexuals.  But online, it started showing up in 2007 after The/BoardThatShallNotBeNamed introduced terms like newfag, oldfag, etc., (link goes to SFW explanation) as neutral terms for "newbie", "experienced user" into the 'net's consciousness. They made it deliberately offensive so as to drive away anyone who might have problems with social taboos.  It sorta took off for a while, and it entrenched itself after South Park picked up on the meme in 2009 with the episode about The F Word (in which South Park cast it as "people who ride Harley-Davidson motorcyles").  I can actually see that one possibly becoming neutral in another 5-10 years. 

If "fag" ever becomes acceptable as a slang term for "person", and ceases to refer to the person's sexuality, the start date of that change can be traced back to memes originating between 2007 (You-know-where) and 2009 (South Park).

I wouldn't miss either of the words, but (over the next 20 years) I give the F-word about a 15% chance of becoming neutral/acceptable.  I give the N-word a 1% chance of making it.  The last one's gonna have to wait for a lot of us middle-aged farts to die out, after which time it'll just be a quaint term heard only by geezers who still plug in to the oldies hip-hop neurocasts.


The only time I may use it and listen to it is while I'm watching Blazing Saddles.


For listening, everyone gets to claim the rap music exemption.  For use, Blazing Saddles is the only exception, and only because Mel Brooks did such an epic job not just at skewering racists, but at skewering racism itself.  And it's still funnier if you have a gong or a bell handy.

That one's a complete surprise to me.

Lemme get this straight, cuz I'm an onion-on-his-belt kinda guy these days: are you suggesting that it's become acceptable for those of the Caucasian persuasion to drop the n-bomb (intending "my peer", not in its traditionally racist sense?)  Because that was never acceptable in my day, and it's still unacceptable amongst my somewhat-wide-age-range (25-and-up) and racially-diverse peer group of co-workers.  To use it as a white dude, even enunciating a "-a" suffix to make it clear that you didn't mean the "-er" suffix, even amongst my peer group of white dudes, would pretty much guarantee a well-justified ass-kicking.

I don't know your age, but yes, lots of non-black people are using the n-word in camaraderie with one another. I see it enough on my Facebook wall. Although I'm sure it's still mostly black people, other races have taken to it as well.

Amongst my peer group, it's unacceptable in verbal communication, and it's always unacceptable as a derogatory term for homosexuals.  But online, it started showing up after The/BoardThatShallNotBeNamed worked terms like newfag, oldfag, etc., (link goes to SFW explanation) as neutral terms for "newbie", "experienced user" into the 'net's consciousness - aver having deliberately offensive so as to drive away anyone who might have problems with social taboos - and especially after South Park picked up on the meme with their episode about The F Word (South Park cast it as "people who ride Harley-Davidson motorcyles"), I can actually see that one possibly becoming neutral in another 5-10 years. 

If "fag" ever becomes acceptable as a slang term for "person", and ceases to refer to the person's sexuality, the start date of that change can be traced back to memes originating between 2007 (You-know-where) and 2009 (South Park).


The word "fag," or any variation thereof, is much more common than the n-word (the only reason I spelled out the former is because I didn't want to confuse it with the other f-word). It's quite common for young men to call each other the f-word, mostly in jest, to question the recipient's sexuality. Personally, as a gay man, I find the use of either word a disgrace, and I refrain from using either word.

I think they started using the N word durting the 70's?  ???

I think they started using the N word durting the 70's?  ???


Did you mean 1770's or 1870's? You can't possible mean the 1970s...

Did you mean 1770's or 1870's? You can't possible mean the 1970s...



"cracker" was another word they used but that was more in the 1970's.

That is one of those words that I wish did not exist. It is in the same category as "wop", "spic", "fag" and several other derogatory names. I hate it when people use it.

I have heard some blacks use it as a term of endearment to one another-I guess trying to take the sting out of it but yet they get insulted if anyone else uses it. If it is so offensive WHY do they use it in the first place? It doesn't make sense to me. I just finished listening to (audiobook) "A Time To Kill" by John Grisham. He uses the word in there A LOT and I really didn't like the book because of that reason. I understand that it would have been used-but I still don't like it-in whatever context.



Did you mean 1770's or 1870's? You can't possible mean the 1970s...



Try more like the 1670s or even 1570s.

In the Colonial America of 1619, John Rolfe used negars in describing the African slaves shipped to the Virginia colony. -from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/******  (Auto sensor kicked in-but you can guess what that last word is. )


Cat

Because of general ignorance. I see white girls on facebook taking stupid photos with their friends, making stupid fake "gang" signs with their hands and captioning it "my niggah" (excuse the language). I just think to myself, "Are they stupid?"

Same with "fag". People love to throw that one around. I hear/see it almost daily.


"fag" could also mean that someone might be a wimp.

"fag" could also mean that someone might be a wimp.


That's still offensive, because in that case it's like your equating wimps and gay people.

That is one of those words that I wish did not exist. It is in the same category as "wop", "spic", "fag" and several other derogatory names. I hate it when people use it.

I have heard some blacks use it as a term of endearment to one another-I guess trying to take the sting out of it but yet they get insulted if anyone else uses it. If it is so offensive WHY do they use it in the first place? It doesn't make sense to me. I just finished listening to (audiobook) "A Time To Kill" by John Grisham. He uses the word in there A LOT and I really didn't like the book because of that reason. I understand that it would have been used-but I still don't like it-in whatever context.



Try more like the 1670s or even 1570s.

In the Colonial America of 1619, John Rolfe used negars in describing the African slaves shipped to the Virginia colony. -from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/******  (Auto sensor kicked in-but you can guess what that last word is. )


Cat


That is exactly what I don't understand! I truly wish the word didn't exist.

That's still offensive, because in that case it's like your equating wimps and gay people.


Yeah it is almost the same thing.

I have heard some blacks use it as a term of endearment to one another-I guess trying to take the sting out of it but yet they get insulted if anyone else uses it. If it is so offensive WHY do they use it in the first place? It doesn't make sense to me. I just finished listening to (audiobook) "A Time To Kill" by John Grisham. He uses the word in there A LOT and I really didn't like the book because of that reason. I understand that it would have been used-but I still don't like it-in whatever context.





I don't use it....don't like the use of it. Love rap music, wish the word wasn't a part of it....

having said all that, while I don't condone blacks using it casually between one another I get the difference. It's kind of like talking about your mother... you may think your mom's a bitch, you may say your mom's a bitch but god help anyone else who says that to you.... it's just one of those things that should be there but it is...

btw this post in way is meant to imply that your mother is a bitch.... I was just using it an an analogy  ;)

Yeah it is almost the same thing.




Just because someone is a wimp doesn't make them gay and not all gay people are wimps.

I don't use it....don't like the use of it. Love rap music, wish the word wasn't a part of it....

having said all that, while I don't condone blacks using it casually between one another I get the difference. It's kind of like talking about your mother... you may think your mom's a bitch, you may say your mom's a bitch but god help anyone else who says that to you.... it's just one of those things that should be there but it is...

btw this post in way is meant to imply that your mother is a bitch.... I was just using it an an analogy  ;)



I knew you weren't calling my mother a b!tch. For the record, my mother isn't a b!tch. She is just a flake and I don't mind anyone saying so because she is a flake.  :D ;D ;D ;D



Cat

I knew you weren't calling my mother a b!tch. For the record, my mother isn't a b!tch. She is just a flake and I don't mind anyone saying so because she is a flake.  :D ;D ;D ;D



Cat



well you're the exception to the rule.  ;)  my mother's a nag but I don't like other people talking about how much she nags... not even my father.

I knew you weren't calling my mother a b!tch. For the record, my mother isn't a b!tch. She is just a flake and I don't mind anyone saying so because she is a flake.  :D ;D ;D ;D



I'll bet you my mother's flakier than your mother!
:D

Just because someone is a wimp doesn't make them gay and not all gay people are wimps.


I don't know why people say it anyway. ::)

I'll bet you my mother's flakier than your mother!
:D


Maybe part of the growing use of racially/sexually-charged language is because old standbys like "motherflakier" have lost most of their power to shock and offend anymore. 

Before my day, Lenny Bruce was charged with obscenity for words like that.

Back in the early 80s, you couldn't say the Seven Dirty Words on broadcast TV, but cable TV was a private service and thus not subject to FCC regulation.  My generation's comedy opened up with George Carlin as a pioneer because he was willing to use "bad words" in social satire, Eddie Murphy as edgy because of his deliriously raw cable specials, and regarded Andrew Dice Clay as shocking for his profanity - but not his sexism. 

30 years later, early Carlin still stands up as both satire and comedy, Dice's sexism is rightly regarded as an ugly remnant of mores best left abandoned, and his language registers as an over-the-top attempt to overcompensate.  (Murphy's somewhere in the middle; some of it is still brilliant, and other are as likely to make me cringe as they are to make me laugh.)

In 2001, South Park's It Hits The Fan required 163 instances of eighth-graders using words like "poop!" in order to make the same point that Carlin did in 7. 

With that trend in mind, the only remaining taboo words - in radio, television, politics, or at work, the ones that can still get you fired on the spot and/or your employer sued - are the sorts of words that prompted this thread.  Perhaps it's only natural that they're eking their way into the mainstream as new expletives.  They're the only words left with the power to shock.

Slowly but surely, I like to think we're getting to the point that Lenny Bruce wanted us to be: a world where you could never make some six-year-old black kid cry because of a line from a routine in Swear to Tell the Truth.

When did Huckleberry Finn come out?

Maybe part of the growing use of racially/sexually-charged language is because old standbys like "motherflakier" have lost most of their power to shock and offend anymore. 

Before my day, Lenny Bruce was charged with obscenity for words like that.

Back in the early 80s, you couldn't say the Seven Dirty Words on broadcast TV, but cable TV was a private service and thus not subject to FCC regulation.  My generation's comedy opened up with George Carlin as a pioneer because he was willing to use "bad words" in social satire, Eddie Murphy as edgy because of his deliriously raw cable specials, and regarded Andrew Dice Clay as shocking for his profanity - but not his sexism. 

30 years later, early Carlin still stands up as both satire and comedy, Dice's sexism is rightly regarded as an ugly remnant of mores best left abandoned, and his language registers as an over-the-top attempt to overcompensate.  (Murphy's somewhere in the middle; some of it is still brilliant, and other are as likely to make me cringe as they are to make me laugh.)

In 2001, South Park's It Hits The Fan required 163 instances of eighth-graders using words like "poop!" in order to make the same point that Carlin did in 7. 

With that trend in mind, the only remaining taboo words - in radio, television, politics, or at work, the ones that can still get you fired on the spot and/or your employer sued - are the sorts of words that prompted this thread.  Perhaps it's only natural that they're eking their way into the mainstream as new expletives.  They're the only words left with the power to shock.

Slowly but surely, I like to think we're getting to the point that Lenny Bruce wanted us to be: a world where you could never make some six-year-old black kid cry because of a line from a routine in Swear to Tell the Truth.


I think with swearing it depends somewhat on where you are too. In Utah, for example, it's still pretty frowned upon to swear in public and personally, I find it borderline offensive when someone is f-bombing really loud on the bus. To me it's almost as rude as racism  >:(

You guys know that there's a big difference between "******" and "nigga", right? They have completely different meanings.

You guys know that there's a big difference between "******" and "nigga", right? They have completely different meanings.


Maybe to your generation. But anyone white or black purple or green. Calls me that and says its okay cuz I said it with an "a" better brace themselves for a face full of my fist.

I'm not a fighter but that word brings it out of me.

Apparently some are willing to diiss the historical ramifications of it... I am not one of those people.  >:(

If "fag" ever becomes acceptable as a slang term for "person", and ceases to refer to the person's sexuality, the start date of that change can be traced back to memes originating between 2007 (You-know-where) and 2009 (South Park).


Heh! It's had acceptable use in Britain for years!

Okay, not as a corruption of 'f@ggot' (which is a very tasty meatball in gravy, natch!) but as a standalone word meaning either a lackey in public school circles, or slang for cigarette (the most popular term)...

So really, the word doesn't quite faze us...but I'd bet it still throws some of our American chums!

(And if you require turnabout, then try 'fanny'...)

You guys know that there's a big difference between "******" and "nigga", right? They have completely different meanings.




Maybe to your generation. But anyone white or black purple or green. Calls me that and says its okay cuz I said it with an "a" better brace themselves for a face full of my fist.

I'm not a fighter but that word brings it out of me.

Apparently some are willing to diiss the historical ramifications of it... I am not one of those people.  >:(


You tell him Snoz, and J you better know it.  >:(

I think it is an awful word.  I don't care which spelling you use, it is disrespectful.  It makes the people who throw it around seem uneducated and trashy, IMO. 

I'm thinking we should close this thread because nothing good can result from it.

You guys know that there's a big difference between "******" and "nigga", right? They have completely different meanings.



Yeah, right, and I'm gonna stop and ask you..."Are you saying that with a "er" or an "a" because I'm not sure if you are from a region where they drop their r's and I want to know if I should be offended or not."  ::)

I'm thinking we should close this thread because nothing good can result from it.


NO!  I think maybe someone may learn something that could prevent him or her from a serious beat down.


(as Snoz and I wind up for the hit)

Yeah, right, and I'm gonna stop and ask you..."Are you saying that with a "er" or an "a" because I'm not sure if you are from a region where they drop their r's and I want to know if I should be offended or not."  ::)



good point.... there are many regions where they say it with an "a" but most certainly mean it with an "er"

NO!  I think maybe someone may learn something that could prevent him or her from a serious beat down.


(as Snoz and I wind up for the hit)


O0



I'm thinking we should close this thread because nothing good can result from it.



I agree with Danoot... one of the worst things you can do is bury the topic.... not talking about it doesn't make the issue go away. 

It's important for people to KNOW and understand that words have meaning...no matter what your actual intention is...and that using them has consequences...

I agree with Danoot... one of the worst things you can do is bury the topic.... not talking about it doesn't make the issue go away. 

It's important for people to KNOW and understand that words have meaning...no matter what your actual intention is...and that using them has consequences...



NO!  I think maybe someone may learn something that could prevent him or her from a serious beat down.


(as Snoz and I wind up for the hit)



I totally get where both of you are coming from....not talking about it doesn't make the issue go away...that people may learn something to prevent them from a serious beat down...

I just wanted to minimize the hate/anger on here because of what this thread could develop into if people think it's okay to use such kind of words. i.e I just wanted this thread to not go in the gutter.. I know sometimes I have a difficult time explaining myself but...Does that make sense?  :-\\   

To me the use of the word is wrong, disrespectful, and I agree what Dag said here.


I think it is an awful word.  I don't care which spelling you use, it is disrespectful.  It makes the people who throw it around seem uneducated and trashy, IMO. 

I just wanted to minimize the hate/anger on here because of what this thread could develop into if people think it's okay to use such kind of words. i.e I just wanted this thread to not go in the gutter.. I know sometimes I have a difficult time explaining myself but...Does that make sense?  :-\\   





It makes sense but trust me- we've had a thread go that way before...Danoot and I are pretty skilled at holding our own on this particular subject matter....

thanks for looking out tho.  :)

It makes sense but trust me- we've had a thread go that way before...Danoot and I are pretty skilled at holding our own on this particular subject matter....

thanks for looking out tho.  :)


:)

I think it is an awful word.  I don't care which spelling you use, it is disrespectful.  It makes the people who throw it around seem uneducated and trashy, IMO.


agreed           

only time any n word is used or herd around me is Blazing Saddles.  The problem is with the idiots who make up s... and others that choose to believe it.

It is a word that is not in my vocabulary.



Cat

It is a word that is not in my vocabulary.



Cat


Mine, neither.

Like 1998-2000 I remember Jay-Z using it in song titles. Thats when I remember the word starting to be used as typical slang word. Before that nobody would dare use that word unless you were looking for a fight.

The School Kids that I cross(yeah most of them are black) on my weekday job they used the N word a couple times this year at me. The new usage for the word is "your my homie" . I just acknowledge them and saying nothing else.

Like 1998-2000 I remember Jay-Z using it in song titles. Thats when I remember the word starting to be used as typical slang word. Before that nobody would dare use that word unless you were looking for a fight.

The School Kids that I cross(yeah most of them are black) on my weekday job they used the N word a couple times this year at me. The new usage for the word is "your my homie" . I just acknowledge them and saying nothing else.



that's not completely accurate...


I worked with kids in Jr high 1994-96  they were using it then.  When I heard them use I took the opportunity to educate them about the word and why it was derogatory.


I think Richard's Pryor constant use of it in the 70s and  the usage of it in rap music in the 80s lead to the increase in blacks using it in their everyday language.  It may be that white kids started using it around 98 to 2000 tho...


I don't know a lot of black people from my dad's generation who use it amongst themselves so I have to say it's casual use did come about later   


I'm not sure when white kids started thinking it was acceptable  :-\\  I remember an ep of Boston Pubilc that was centered around the subject in 2001 or so... It was a great ep... It's possible it started to cross racial lines as you said late 98-01.

 
I'm not sure when white kids started thinking it was acceptable  :-\\  I remember an ep of Boston Pubilc that was centered around the subject in 2001 or so... It was a great ep... It's possible it started to cross racial lines as you said late 98-01.



The only white kids I know who considered using it knew it was absolutely unacceptable, but wanted an excuse to use it and rappers opened a door for them.  Usually that kind of speech went on(or goes on) at home but the were supposed to pretend it didn't(doesn't). 

The only white kids I know who considered using it knew it was absolutely unacceptable, but wanted an excuse to use it and rappers opened a door for them.  Usually that kind of speech went on(or goes on) at home but the were supposed to pretend it didn't(doesn't).


I've only experienced white kids using it on two occasions. Once I was using twitter for an investigation and this 19 year old punk was using it in his tweets. In context he meant it as "homie" but it still pissed me off reading it.  The other time I was at a karaoke bar and this 20something white chick decided to sing a dr dre song and, call me hyper sensitive, but there was no hesitance when that word came up. She said it strong and proud and seemed to enjoy saying it.


Three occasions. There was that dust up on these boards with a member who hasn't been around in a while.... I'm still mad at him for that.


I've been called that word enough times in my life the wrong way so I will never experience a positive connotation from it if someone were to use it towards me in the "other" way.....anyone... White or black....(or any colors in between. 

I'm not sure when white kids started thinking it was acceptable  :-\\  I remember an ep of Boston Pubilc that was centered around the subject in 2001 or so... It was a great ep... It's possible it started to cross racial lines as you said late 98-01.



I remember that ep. That was GREAT show. It is a shame they cancelled it.


Ok, back on topic.



Cat

Yeah, right, and I'm gonna stop and ask you..."Are you saying that with a "er" or an "a" because I'm not sure if you are from a region where they drop their r's and I want to know if I should be offended or not."  ::)


Amongst blacks themselves the "a" form of the word is in fact used as a term of endearment. The racist form of the word is distinct from it. This is how language works, words evolve and change over time and this is a fascinating example of it.  I know it is hard for people who grew up in the 50s, 60s, and 70s to understand how this word could be used positively, but the younger generations have a different worldview and understand that a distinction can exist. I'm in college right now and I've noticed that people my age have no problem using the "a" form of the word but anyone over about 35 or 40 still considers it completely taboo.

Maybe to your generation. But anyone white or black purple or green. Calls me that and says its okay cuz I said it with an "a" better brace themselves for a face full of my fist.

I'm not a fighter but that word brings it out of me.

Apparently some are willing to diiss the historical ramifications of it... I am not one of those people.  >:(


My generation being people under 35? This word has been around for awhile now and its usage has actually increased in recent years.

Younger people, both black and white, apply the word very casually now. It is what it is. Just this year there was a major hit song by Kanye West and Jay Z titled "Niggas in Paris". The word continues to change as we move further past the Civil Rights Era and people nowadays make a strong distinction between "er" and "a". I hate to tell you but it's not going to stop any time soon, if anything the word will continue to become more of an everyday slang term than it already is.

My mom told me saying "n*gga please" was popular way back in the 70s when she was a teenager.

My generation being people under 35? This word has been around for awhile now and its usage has actually increased in recent years.

Younger people, both black and white, apply the word very casually now. It is what it is. Just this year there was a major hit song by Kanye West and Jay Z titled "Niggas in Paris". The word continues to change as we move further past the Civil Rights Era and people nowadays make a strong distinction between "er" and "a". I hate to tell you but it's not going to stop any time soon, if anything the word will continue to become more of an everyday slang term than it already is.


And when Gweneth Paltrow tweeted "niggas in Paris for real" she meant it, as you describe, but was lambasted for saying it.  It's still not okay with a lot of people. Particularly black people.

And I think you missed Danoot's point. In some southern regions people say it with an "a" but they mean it with the "er"


Not matter it's meant I find it completely unacceptable.

And when Gweneth Paltrow tweeted "niggas in Paris for real" she meant it, as you describe, but was lambasted for saying it.  It's still not okay with a lot of people. Particularly black people.

And I think you missed Danoot's point. In some southern regions people say it with an "a" but they mean it with the "er"


Not matter it's meant I find it completely unacceptable.


I understood Danoot's point, but I found it a bit of a stretch from my own personal experience. I've never heard the "a" form of it used in a racist context, only the "er" form. There's almost always a pretty obvious contextual distinction so even if someone has an accent  the context in which it is used is probably going to be understood.

Again, I think you need to understand that people who have grown up post Civil Rights Era have grown up in a cultural landscape that is heavily influenced by rap music, and people view the word very differently now than they would have in 1972. It is just not a taboo word anymore among a very large number of people in my generation. It is what it is. Culture changes and slang changes along with it. The "er" form of the word is still completely taboo and that is not likely to change any time soon.

I understood Danoot's point, but I found it a bit of a stretch from my own personal experience. I've never heard the "a" form of it used in a racist context, only the "er" form. There's almost always a pretty obvious contextual distinction so even if someone has an accent  the context in which it is used is probably going to be understood.



Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.



Again, I think you need to understand that people who have grown up post Civil Rights Era have grown up in a cultural landscape that is heavily influenced by rap music, and people view the word very differently now than they would have in 1972. It is just not a taboo word anymore among a very large number of people in my generation. It is what it is. Culture changes and slang changes along with it. The "er" form of the word is still completely taboo and that is not likely to change any time soon.




I listen to rap. I like rap but I detest the fact that that word is part of the vernacular of rap. It should be taboo.

I think the people using the word casually have no idea about the history and venom attached to the word. Of they did they wouldn't be so quick to throw it around.

I don't know your culture or your history but, like I've said, I've been on the wrong end of that word too often to ever be able to see the good side of.  There no justification for it.

You can post all the arguments you want I will never agree with you on this. 

My mom told me saying "n*gga please" was popular way back in the 70s when she was a teenager.


She's fibbing.  I was around in the 70s(and 60s and 50s) and I can assure you it wasn't either "popular" nor acceptable...and my circle of friends and acquaintances was wide ranging.

Again, I think you need to understand that people who have grown up post Civil Rights Era have grown up in a cultural landscape that is heavily influenced by rap music, and people view the word very differently now than they would have in 1972. It is just not a taboo word anymore among a very large number of people in my generation.



May I ask what your social circle encompasses?  I would be very surprised to know that, if you are white, you use the n-word among blacks without having been confronted more than once about it. 

She's fibbing.  I was around in the 70s(and 60s and 50s) and I can assure you it wasn't either "popular" nor acceptable...and my circle of friends and acquaintances was wide ranging.


The only time I ever heard it in the 70s was in movies. I knew no black people who said it in everyday conversation either.  Richard Pryor was the biggest offender (in my book) and even he changed his tune.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltWj4iAmno&sns=em



My YouTube links don't always work from my phone so if it doesn't work search on YouTube for Richard Pryor on the n word.  And watch it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AltWj4iAmno&sns=em

In my country the n-word with -er at the end is actually wide used instead of "black person" or "African" and "African-American" and it doesn't have any negative connotations (usually) whatsoever.

In my country the n-word with -er at the end is actually wide used instead of "black person" or "African" and "African-American" and it doesn't have any negative connotations (usually) whatsoever.


Maybe to you........what country?

Maybe to you........what country?
Bulgaria. Well, there are one a few black people over here (and with 'few' I mean really only a bunch of them -- we have other minorities though, e.g. the Roma people) BTW, I want to mention that we never enslaved anyone in my country, black or white, unlike white Americans. And probably that's why white guilt is unheard of over here.

There is a girl in my office that used the word quite frequently whether she was describing her friends or even strangers walking by.  Honestly, it just made her sound ridiculous and people were embarrassed by and for her. She doesn't use the word anymore, and I have to wonder if something was said to her about it by HR or a fellow worker who was offended.

Saying that it is ok to use the word now that 'time has gone by' is like saying it is ok to call a lesbian a dyke, or a Jewish person a kike, or someone from the middle east a camel-jockey, etc because 'time has gone by'. What does that even mean, time has gone by? Does it matter? ? No. Of course not. Has nothing to do with age or where you grew up. It has to do with being respectful or at least mindful of other people's feelings. Here is a good rule of thumb:

Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
And if you are using the word because you think it is daring, or you want shock value, or you think it makes you cool, or whatever, it really isn't flattering to you (although, I suspect that the caucasians that do use it want attention more than anything, no matter what kind of attention they may receive). It just makes a person sound ignorant to me.

Bulgaria. Well, there are one a few black people over here (and with 'few' I mean really only a bunch of them -- we have other minorities though, e.g. the Roma people) BTW, I want to mention that we never enslaved anyone in my country, black or white, unlike white Americans. And probably that's why white guilt is unheard of over here.


Well, if you ever go somewhere where there is a sizable black population and you use the word you could find yourself in quite a bit of trouble. 

Well, if you ever go somewhere where there is a sizable black population and you use the word you could find yourself in quite a bit of trouble.

Well, I never use that word anyway. ;)

Well, I never use that word anyway. ;)


:)

Amongst blacks themselves the "a" form of the word is in fact used as a term of endearment. The racist form of the word is distinct from it. This is how language works, words evolve and change over time and this is a fascinating example of it.  I know it is hard for people who grew up in the 50s, 60s, and 70s to understand how this word could be used positively, but the younger generations have a different worldview and understand that a distinction can exist. I'm in college right now and I've noticed that people my age have no problem using the "a" form of the word but anyone over about 35 or 40 still considers it completely taboo.


Interesting...where do you go to college? What is the racial/ethnic makeup of the student population?

I'm in college right now, too - a racially/ethnically diverse college at that. I hear the word used casually on occasion, but 99% of the time I've heard it, it was from black students. I've noticed that a lot of Latinos seem to like to use it as well, but it's mostly the ones who went to my high school, and I went to a ghetto-ass high school, so that could be one reason for it. The only time I ever hear white people use it is if they're either gangster/thug/punk-wannabes, or otherwise like to act "black," so to speak.

Amongst blacks themselves the "a" form of the word is in fact used as a term of endearment. The racist form of the word is distinct from it.



No, it isn't not.  It's meaning is more of "fool" not endearment.  Where do you get this stuff?

Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.





I listen to rap. I like rap but I detest the fact that that word is part of the vernacular of rap. It should be taboo.

I think the people using the word casually have no idea about the history and venom attached to the word. Of they did they wouldn't be so quick to throw it around.

I don't know your culture or your history but, like I've said, I've been on the wrong end of that word too often to ever be able to see the good side of.  There no justification for it.

You can post all the arguments you want I will never agree with you on this.


But I'm not asking for your opinion on the word, I'm simply stating a fact. For many people nowadays there is a difference between "nigga" and "******". Regardless of whether you would ever care to hear it, there are many people today that use it very casually.

May I ask what your social circle encompasses?  I would be very surprised to know that, if you are white, you use the n-word among blacks without having been confronted more than once about it.


College aged kids mostly. I hear it from whites and blacks alike.

Interesting...where do you go to college? What is the racial/ethnic makeup of the student population?

I'm in college right now, too - a racially/ethnically diverse college at that. I hear the word used casually on occasion, but 99% of the time I've heard it, it was from black students. I've noticed that a lot of Latinos seem to like to use it as well, but it's mostly the ones who went to my high school, and I went to a ghetto-ass high school, so that could be one reason for it. The only time I ever hear white people use it is if they're either gangster/thug/punk-wannabes, or otherwise like to act "black," so to speak.


Washington state. Blacks are a pretty small minority here.Mostly white and Asian. I too notice people of all creed and color using it. Most of the time it's very casual, and used in a rap oriented context or used to describe someone who someone is friends with.

But I'm not asking for your opinion on the word, I'm simply stating a fact. For many people nowadays there is a difference between "nigga" and "******". Regardless of whether you would ever care to hear it, there are many people today that use it very casually.


As meesa stated earlier in the thread, just because you can use it doesn't mean you should use it.  Just because some people use it casually doesn't make it right.  It is a very offensive word and people should not use it. 


Honestly, I feel more and more like a prude every day.  I remember when the "f" word was the mother of all bad words.  Now it is almost just another adjective.  What is it about swearing? (and I equate the N word with swearing.)  Any of those words don't make you sound cool at all.  It just makes someone look like a punk.

**grabs cane and goes out to chase the kids off lawn**

Washington state. Blacks are a pretty small minority here.Mostly white and Asian. I too notice people of all creed and color using it. Most of the time it's very casual, and used in a rap oriented context or used to describe someone who someone is friends with.


Well, that's where your area differs from mine. The majority of people I notice using it often and casually are black and Latino. I seldom hear white and Asian people regardless of age use it. Like I mentioned before, usually the only time I'd be aware of a white person using it is if they're the wannabe-gangster/punk types, or occasionally it might be used sarcastically, but I've noticed that lighter-skinned people seem to avoid its usage most of the time. 

Oh, and I live in the Dallas-Fort Worth area of Texas, which is very racially diverse.

Honestly, I feel more and more like a prude every day.  I remember when the "f" word was the mother of all bad words.  Now it is almost just another adjective.  What is it about swearing? (and I equate the N word with swearing.)  Any of those words don't make you sound cool at all.  It just makes someone look like a punk.

**grabs cane and goes out to chase the kids off lawn**


I'm barely half your age and I feel the same. Nothing turns a beautiful person ugly faster than a foul mouth.

But I'm not asking for your opinion on the word, I'm simply stating a fact. For many people nowadays there is a difference between "nigga" and "******". Regardless of whether you would ever care to hear it, there are many people today that use it very casually.


And if it were just me I'd say fine but its not just me. I'm telling you many blacks don't want to hear the word and most blacks don't want to hear it coming out of white mouths.




Washington state. Blacks are a pretty small minority here.Mostly white and Asian. I too notice people of all creed and color using it. Most of the time it's very casual, and used in a rap oriented context or used to describe someone who someone is friends with.


By your own admission there's not a lot of diversity where you're experiencing this anomaly. I guarantee you if those white college kids found themselves in LA, NY, Chicago, ATL or Detroit they'd go home missing some important body parts.

You've been asked casually several times and you haven't really answered but I'm going to assume you're white (or Asian). If you are you just been told by various people (a few of them of color) that usage of the word is vile and unacceptable.  Yet you chose to argue with is. The only examples you can give are rap music and the misguided principles of kids not exposed to large black populations in a small town

I've even countered your rap argument voting the large number of hate tweets Gwyneth Paltrow got for using that word, spelled with an a in the exact manner you deemed is seen as acceptable now. Obviously, it is not acceptable otherwise she would not have come under fire.


That word is not acceptable by the majority of people no matter how much you want to argue the point with us.
No one else is standing up and saying its okay because they know its ignorant.

I know jay and Oprah have talked about this topic at length. But you look at the rappers using the word it's still a small portion of the population.

Walk away with this. If you are white and you use the word you better know your audience really well or heed the consequences

If you are black and use the word them i implore learn your history

If you don't use the word at all why are you arguing so hard for the idiots...white and black...who do.


.

I'm barely half your age and I feel the same. Nothing turns a beautiful person ugly faster than a foul mouth.


Agreed.  :)

Honestly, I feel more and more like a prude every day.  I remember when the "f" word was the mother of all bad words.  Now it is almost just another adjective.  What is it about swearing? (and I equate the N word with swearing.)  Any of those words don't make you sound cool at all.  It just makes someone look like a punk.

**grabs cane and goes out to chase the kids off lawn**


That reminds me, does anyone remember The Cocky Sticks? (SFW link, NSFW audio MP3s available from IUMA via archive.org)

I mention them here for My N-Word (NSFW MP3), which features every naughty word in the book except the N-word, which should give you an idea of how taboo the word was as recently as 1999, even to an act who's sole album was titled Catholic Girls Do Swallow.  I can date them back to 1999 as one of the first artists on mp3.com (back when Michael Robertson's mp3.com was a revolutionary idea.)  Finding their songs has brought back some early garage-techno lulz, but I can't find the damndest thing about the history of the group.  Whatever happened to the Cocky Sticks?

Catholic Girls Do Swallow communion wine.

fixt that 4 u

fixt that 4 u


"That wasn't wine!" :)

And if it were just me I'd say fine but its not just me. I'm telling you many blacks don't want to hear the word and most blacks don't want to hear it coming out of white mouths.



I think you're still missing the point. What constitutes "offensive language" is totally subjective. You say many other blacks feel offended by the word and that is no doubt true. But many blacks also use the word liberally and take no issue with it. So who are you to say what is and isn't correct for people to feel when the issue of its offensiveness is in fact so subjective? We're talking about "nigga" here, not "******". The latter is considered offensive under nearly every circumstance, while the former's offensiveness is clearly a divided issue.

The same could be said for words like "b*tch" and f*ck", while they are always offensive to many people their widespread slang usage belies that and shows that there are many people who simply aren't that offended by the word's usage in certain contexts. Regardless of whether you or I choose to use these words, you also have to understand that there is nothing unequivocal about their offensiveness since these words are hardly culturally taboo anymore.

By your own admission there's not a lot of diversity where you're experiencing this anomaly. I guarantee you if those white college kids found themselves in LA, NY, Chicago, ATL or Detroit they'd go home missing some important body parts.

You've been asked casually several times and you haven't really answered but I'm going to assume you're white (or Asian). If you are you just been told by various people (a few of them of color) that usage of the word is vile and unacceptable.  Yet you chose to argue with is. The only examples you can give are rap music and the misguided principles of kids not exposed to large black populations in a small town

I've even countered your rap argument voting the large number of hate tweets Gwyneth Paltrow got for using that word, spelled with an a in the exact manner you deemed is seen as acceptable now. Obviously, it is not acceptable otherwise she would not have come under fire.


This is silly logic to use in my opinion, to argue that Gwyneth Paltrow legitimately came "under fire" because there were a few people that tried to call her out. A few people criticized her on Twitter and then there is a massive bunch of people that happened to see it and not care. We're talking about something that was essentially seen as a non issue by most. Just because a handful of people thought otherwise that does not suddenly prove that any meaningful majority of people took offense to it. It's like with many other could-be-offensive slang terms, comedians come "under fire" from family groups all the time for their saucy jokes yet obviously they find plenty of people who are accepting or just plain indifferent.

And again, you're coming across as someone who is trying to project their own individual views onto everyone else. Yes, it offends you personally but surely you cannot force anyone else, white or black, to feel offended by a word that may just not happen to offend them. I'm not saying you are wrong to feel offended by the word, but I am saying that it is impossible for you to get everyone else thinking the same way.



That word is not acceptable by the majority of people no matter how much you want to argue the point with us.
No one else is standing up and saying its okay because they know its ignorant.

I know jay and Oprah have talked about this topic at length. But you look at the rappers using the word it's still a small portion of the population.

Walk away with this. If you are white and you use the word you better know your audience really well or heed the consequences

If you are black and use the word them i implore learn your history

If you don't use the word at all why are you arguing so hard for the idiots...white and black...who do.
.


I accept the fact that we live in a society where language is ever changing, and while I understand the other side of the issue, I personally chose to put more stock in context than anything else. I acknowledge that the application of the word's usage has changed with today's culture and that the vast majority of people who use the word mean no harm by it. Beyond that acknowledgement there isn't anything that I can do, I obviously can't change the culture of the word. Culture today is what it is. You're certainly entitled to disagree with it on your own.

If it were 'just me' feeling this way then yeah I'd say have a problem that is solely mine. I'm not alone. I'm not the only one who finds use of the word with an 'a' equally offensive as when it's used with an 'er'

I'm not going to debate the numbers with you because it's impossible to measure unless we polled every person on the planet there's no way to discern who's argument - yours or mine- is more in tune with the the majority on this issue.

As i said before ive seen many discussions on this topic so i know where a lot of people stand however, I speak in terms of 'I' because I can ultimately only speak for myself

I think people who take the stance you continue to lay out, regardless of their race, are ignorant.

I refuse to budge in this point of view. I refuse to acknowledge that use of the word is okay in any setting.
I find comfort in the fact that I  live in a civilized environment where this is not common practice.  I have never been called that word with an 'a' and I stand by my initial post that I would not hesitate to resolve that conversation physically, no matter how it was intended.  I'm not a violent person but I will make exceptions under particular circumstances.

"That wasn't wine!" :)


You're the kid who turned the O into a U, I'm telling Sister!
>:(

If it were 'just me' feeling this way then yeah I'd say have a problem that is solely mine. I'm not alone. I'm not the only one who finds use of the word with an 'a' equally offensive as when it's used with an 'er'

I'm not going to debate the numbers with you because it's impossible to measure unless we polled every person on the planet there's no way to discern who's argument - yours or mine- is more in tune with the the majority on this issue.

As i said before ive seen many discussions on this topic so i know where a lot of people stand however, I speak in terms of 'I' because I can ultimately only speak for myself

I think people who take the stance you continue to lay out, regardless of their race, are ignorant.

I refuse to budge in this point of view. I refuse to acknowledge that use of the word is okay in any setting.
I find comfort in the fact that I  live in a civilized environment where this is not common practice.  I have never been called that word with an 'a' and I stand by my initial post that I would not hesitate to resolve that conversation physically, no matter how it was intended.  I'm not a violent person but I will make exceptions under particular circumstances.






The kid doesn't get it, won't get it, won't hear it. 

The kid doesn't get it, won't get it, won't hear it.


You're right. I'm just wasting my time.