Thanks again, it wiil take practice but I'll get it.

This is another session question. They have the ability to spell out what they are saying. Sometimes I can't hear what they are
saying and other times I can't decipher from sound alike words. I would like to ask them to write it for me because it may help.
This is were I struggle with word usage and sentence structure, what would the proper way to ask. "Could you write it for me?"
I've been mulling it over and came up with,"können Sie es für mich schreiben," but I think I am way off base here.

I've been mulling it over and came up with,"können Sie es für mich schreiben," but I think I am way off base here.


That's not a bad translation actually. Slightly more accurate would maybe be "Können Sie es (bitte) für mich aufschreiben", but your sentence is totally sufficient IMO and everybody should understand it.

That's not a bad translation actually. Slightly more accurate would maybe be "Können Sie es (bitte) für mich aufschreiben", but your sentence is totally sufficient IMO and everybody should understand it.


Great, To me it means I am starting to learn a thing or two.  ;D

I have one more session this month we'll see how it goes. It is good to know I could have used the sentence but
if it was completely wrong the moderator doesn't have the time to correct it or to tell me why it was wrong. There
are only 25 minutes per session and other learners. That is why I like to bring my questions, and sample sentences,
here. You tell me what is wrong, why it is wrong and how to correct it. I can't thank you enough for your help.

PS. My sample sentence almost didn't make it, I was just going to ask how I should phrase it. I wrote the sentence
    and deleted it twice. My 7 year old granddaughter asked me why I kept deleting it, I told her I was pretty sure it
    was wrong. She said, "Don't be afraid to be wrong Pop-Pop, how else are you going to learn new things."
    Out of the mouths of babes.

I have a saying that I tell my children all the time. I do not know how to phrase it. I know all the individual words
and if I was to phrase it it would be be a word for word english translation. I know sometimes that is how it is. is
this one of them? The phrase is....."It is better to have and not need than to need and not have."

This new lesson deals with the past and future and a few other things. Examples before the question.
Gestern bin ich im See geschwommen.
Letzten Mittwoch hat er Fahrkarten gekauft.
Nächstes Jahr werde ich sechs Jahre alt.

These are pretty straight forward, not too hard, my question involves the next two.

Er schenkt seiner Frau eine Halskette.
Ich habe meinem Bruder einer stift gegeben.

My question is about the words, is schenkt used for gifts? Each time it was used a person in
the picture seemed to be getting a gift; an apple, a necklace, etc.. When gibt, geben and gegeben was
used it just seemed to be items; a pen, a newspaper, etc..

Hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread briefly.

In other non-English speaking countries what do you call the opposite sides of a coin.  Do you still use heads and tails?


In The Netherlands, it's "kop" and "munt" (most commonly), or "kruis" and "munt'. "Kop/kruis" being the "head" side, and "munt" (mint) would be the opposite side (the side where the minter's marks used to be, before we converted to the Euro).

Er schenkt seiner Frau eine Halskette.
Ich habe meinem Bruder einer stift gegeben.

My question is about the words, is schenkt used for gifts? Each time it was used a person in
the picture seemed to be getting a gift; an apple, a necklace, etc.. When gibt, geben and gegeben was
used it just seemed to be items; a pen, a newspaper, etc..


Yes, "schenkt" is mostly used for gifts, or just things that are given away free of charge. And "geben" is used for passing items, but it can also be used for immaterial things, e. g. "Er hat ihm Recht gegeben" = "He proved him right".

A little off topic since this thread is mostly focused on the German language, but I am trying to pick up some French again, and I get frustrated since it seems that the grammar rules are always different for every single situation.

Just when I think I have it down pat with a certain concept and try to guess what the translation would be, I am wrong!

For instance, back in the 7th grade, we discussed that the verb "avoir" is used when describing how one feels when used in first person (ie: J'ai froid-I am cold). So when I was practicing a little bit of French recently, I figured that the translation for "I'm very tired" was "J'ai tres fatigue", but apparently it's supposed to be "Je suis fatigue".
WHY?!?

A little off topic since this thread is mostly focused on the German language, but I am trying to pick up some French again, and I get frustrated since it seems that the grammar rules are always different for every single situation.

Just when I think I have it down pat with a certain concept and try to guess what the translation would be, I am wrong!

For instance, back in the 7th grade, we discussed that the verb "avoir" is used when describing how one feels when used in first person (ie: J'ai froid-I am cold). So when I was practicing a little bit of French recently, I figured that the translation for "I'm very tired" was "J'ai tres fatigue", but apparently it's supposed to be "Je suis fatigue".
WHY?!?


You are not off topic at all. When I started the thread I just wanted to know how hard it for others to learn a second or third
language. It seems to be focused on German because that is the language I am trying to learn and Inlandsvägen1986 has been
helping me, and what a huge help he has been.

I also have trouble with grammar but I am getting it. As far as French goes maybe warped will be able to help you, I believe he
speaks French.

As I stated before, I am always thing of how to say things in everyday life. The only way to learn is to try, correct.
Anyway, in work I fabricate ductwork. This ductwork needs access doors, the doors need handles. The question
is how many. I came up with this, I know this is a bit out of my realm but I am trying.

Sollte ich installieren ein oder zwei Griffe auf der Tür?

As I stated before, I am always thing of how to say things in everyday life. The only way to learn is to try, correct.
Anyway, in work I fabricate ductwork. This ductwork needs access doors, the doors need handles. The question
is how many. I came up with this, I know this is a bit out of my realm but I am trying.

Sollte ich installieren ein oder zwei Griffe auf der Tür?


There again we have the case when the verb has to be at the end.

"Sollte ich ein oder zwei Griffe an der Tür installieren?" :)

A SOV-structure is pretty common in questions which describe activities.

There again we have the case when the verb has to be at the end.

"Sollte ich ein oder zwei Griffe an der Tür installieren?" :)

A SOV-structure is pretty common in questions which describe activities.


That is how I had it written at first, though I still had the wrong preposition. I looked at it over and over,
I didn't thing it was an infinitive but from what I have had in the lessons it just looked right. Then for some
inexplicable reason I changed it.

A new month is starting which means I have a new set of sessions. I've brought up questions and
statements here to help with sessions. I have another, actually I have two issues today. When the
moderators speak, sometimes I can't distinguish between sound alike words. I think they just speak
too fast at times. So I came up with.....

Bitte sprechen Sie etwas langsamer.

The other issue is: The speech meter tells me I am pronouncing two words incorrectly. I don't know why,
I think I am saying it just like the program but apparently I am not. The two words are:

entschuldigen  (Surprising, but the machine says I am incorrect.)
möchte (This one just gives me fits.)

In The Netherlands, it's "kop" and "munt" (most commonly), or "kruis" and "munt'. "Kop/kruis" being the "head" side, and "munt" (mint) would be the opposite side (the side where the minter's marks used to be, before we converted to the Euro).


thanks, learnt something new

The other issue is: The speech meter tells me I am pronouncing two words incorrectly. I don't know why,
I think I am saying it just like the program but apparently I am not. The two words are:

entschuldigen  (Surprising, but the machine says I am incorrect.)
möchte (This one just gives me fits.)


Transcribed into English,

"entschuldigen" would sound a bit like "and shouldee goong" - the "l" may not be silent and the emphasis is on "shouldee". 

"Möchte..." hmm - is it maybe the "ch" what you pronounce wrongly?

Transcribed into English,

"entschuldigen" would sound a bit like "and shouldee goong" - the "l" may not be silent and the emphasis is on "shouldee". 

"Möchte..." hmm - is it maybe the "ch" what you pronounce wrongly?


It is the "ch". The lessons sound like it is an "sh" sound, sort of like mushta or muoshta, yet the pronounciation guides
I have say the "ch" sound is like that in "ich". One other book I have has a harder "ch" sound like that in mocha. Like
I said, it gives me fits.

It is the "ch". The lessons sound like it is an "sh" sound, sort of like mushta or muoshta, yet the pronounciation guides
I have say the "ch" sound is like that in "ich". One other book I have has a harder "ch" sound like that in mocha. Like
I said, it gives me fits.


It's definetly no "sh"-sound. Too bad I don't have an English equivalent in mind, but it's exactly like in "ich".

Here's maybe another sound example - just type in "möchte": http://www.linguatec.de/onlineservices/voice_reader/

It's definetly no "sh"-sound. Too bad I don't have an English equivalent in mind, but it's exactly like in "ich".

Here's maybe another sound example - just type in "möchte": http://www.linguatec.de/onlineservices/voice_reader/


That one helped a lot. I was able to slow it down and listen how the sounds blended together. I'll work on it and see
how it goes.

I know it has been awhile but I haven't given up. I still do my lessons every night, it just that I've been reviewing
everything I've learned thus far. I did come across a few things I find puzzling. First:

Reflexive verbs: Does this happen with certain types of verbs and does it happen often?

Ich interessiere mich für Bildhaurei.

Second: Do conjunctions always send the verb to the end?

Edit to add: I am noticing that a lot of words are age specific. Schüler (Grundschule), Gymnasiast (Gymnasium), Student (Universität)
               

Reflexive verbs: Does this happen with certain types of verbs and does it happen often?

Ich interessiere mich für Bildhaurei.


They always occur if a person talks about own activities which refer directly to himself:

Some other examples:

Ich freue mich auf Weihnachten.
Ich bekenne mich zu meinem Glauben.
Ich wasche mich.
Ich verlaufe mich.


Second: Do conjunctions always send the verb to the end?


I would say so, yes. There might be exceptions, but I can't think of one at the moment.


Edit to add: I am noticing that a lot of words are age specific. Schüler (Grundschule), Gymnasiast (Gymnasium), Student (Universität)


Schüler is actually any kind of learner beyond the university/college level. A Gymnasiast is also a Schüler, even at age 20 (which is not uncommon in Germany). Gymnasium is only the highest level of school education you can get before university/college. There are some other forms (Realschule (Realschüler) = kind of middle school) and (Hauptschule (Hauptschüler) = very low education after elementary school).

Once you are studying at a university, you are not a "Schüler" anymore, but a "Student".

To make it short:

Age 3-5: Kindergartenkind
Age 6/7-10/11: Grundschüler

Age 10/11-ca. 15/16: Hauptschüler
...or
Age 10/11-ca. 16/17: Realschüler
...or
Age 10/11-ca. 20: Gymnasiast ----> and then maybe "Student" at a university

They are on their way to combine "Haupt- and Realschule" by the way, so different educational school levels start to blur.

In the lessons I've only dealt with the three terms for students, I have written the others down.

I am starting to make a little sense of sentence structure. Your explanation clears things up quite a bit.

The newer lessons are using more of the separable verbs. We've touched on it before with "einkauft" so it sort
of prepared me for it.

Der Zug kommt um vierzehn Uhr an.

My question is, how do I know when to use the separable verb as opposed to the regular verb?

Der Zug kommt um vierzehn Uhr an.

My question is, how do I know when to use the separable verb as opposed to the regular verb?


A verb is often seperable if something has been added to a regular verb. This is the case for example in "einkaufen" or "ankommen", where "ein" or "an" respectively have been added to the verbs as a prefix.

When to use it? I think there is no special rule. It's just practice. Seperable verbs have to be learned like normal vocabularies because the meaning mostly differs significantly from the regular verb.

Buses, trains, planes etc. (public transportation) usually "kommen an" when they arrive at the bus stop, railroad station or airport respectively. "Kommen" without the "an" is a bit more general.

"Einkaufen" means for example that the father of the family drives to the supermarket on purpose to buy groceries etc.
"Kaufen" are more or less all kinds of purchases, also on the stock-market for example.

It's hard, I won't deny that. I am trying to pay more attention to the pictures to see exactly what it is they
are doing. These are some of the words I am dealing with at the moment.

abfahrt, abbiegen, einsteigen and aussteigen.

I also had spelling tonight, I had to do this one strictly from memory. Sometimes they just show a picture and
nothing else. It is up to me to remember from the lesson and spell what is said.

Früher habe ich in einem Büro gearbeitet. Jetzt arbeite ich an einem Gymnasium.

I wonder that if at times I am little too ambitious. I think I should be further along but then I listen to other
learners at the same level and they have the same struggles. I think I may be too ambitious because I go
on youtube and watch videos like these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlGAbms-rqk

I watch them to listen. I try not to read the subtitles I just want to hear the Native speakers and how they
pronounce the words but I must admit, I have trouble distinguishing the words. Words I feel I should know
I can't make out. I don't know, I will just keep slogging through it. It has to get better and easier.....right?

I am just curious. Are you going out to actual courses or are you learning German by yourself at home?

I am just curious. Are you going out to actual courses or are you learning German by yourself at home?


Right now I am using Rosetta Stone at home, I figured an online course is a good starting point.
I am thinking of taking classes at a Community College though.

Let me clarify, I am learning by myself at home. The Rosetta Stone Program and a couple of books and
your tutelage are my only learning tools. Rosetta Stone does have sessions with native speakers, I am
able to have 4 per month - more if I pay for it. There are usually 3 to 4 other people in the sessions, they
help but it is only 25 minutes long and the moderators don't really correct anything. The Program also has
a chat room but there are no moderators there and it is more like a bunch of people writting out gibberish
than a chat room. I am having a blast, every night I try and learn something. My goal is to come here and
post completely in German. I'm not close yet but I will get there.

When it comes to the prefixes I want to make sure I am getting this right.

by adding an to kommt the words then becomes arrives? kommt (comes), ankommt (arrives).
Nein. Er ist pünktlich, er kommt um Neun Uhr dreißig an.


Another question would be about the word "anruf", is ther ever a case where "ruf" would be used by itself?
Sie ruft die Polizei an. I guess my question is, is "anruf" used strictly for telephone calls?

by adding an to kommt the words then becomes arrives? kommt (comes), ankommt (arrives).
Nein. Er ist pünktlich, er kommt um Neun Uhr dreißig an.


Yes, exactly!


Another question would be about the word "anruf", is ther ever a case where "ruf" would be used by itself?
Sie ruft die Polizei an. I guess my question is, is "anruf" used strictly for telephone calls?


Yes, "anrufen" or "anruf" is only used for telephone calls. This is very different from English. However there is "rufen" (ich rufe, du rufst, er/sie/es/ihr ruft, wir/sie rufen). This verb is used if you for example cry for somebody how is upstairs...

I have been practicing my pronunciation, I'm getting better. When I walk I constantly repeat three sentences
that have the sounds I've been struggling with.

Ich habe
Ich brauche
Ich möchte

I have a rather strange question about everyday speaking. Here it is very common to leave letters off of words:
"Give it to 'em." "Let 'em have it." "You wanna go wit' me?" Does this type of slang appear in the German language?

I have been practicing my pronunciation, I'm getting better. When I walk I constantly repeat three sentences
that have the sounds I've been struggling with.

Ich habe
Ich brauche
Ich möchte

I have a rather strange question about everyday speaking. Here it is very common to leave letters off of words:
"Give it to 'em." "Let 'em have it." "You wanna go wit' me?" Does this type of slang appear in the German language?


Yes, this is definetly not uncommon. It actually appears in the terms you have listed above:

Ich hab' das nicht.
Ich brauch' das nicht.
Ich möcht' das nicht.

It can even be shorter:

Ich hab's nicht.
Ich brauch's nicht.
Ich möcht's nicht.

It is of course also possible with other verbs, e. g. "können".

I thought as much. I am not going to worry myself about it though, I have enough trouble trying to learn to speak
the language the correct way.

I am not going to worry myself about it though, I have enough trouble trying to learn to speak
the language the correct way.


Certainly. Using colloqial speech is a thing which you can worry about if you have high proficiency. I was not aware of such things in English during my first learning years...

I've had this question since I started but for some reason I haven't asked. Let me give the example first.

Renne nicht! In der Schule musst du laufen.

In the program I know this means "Don't run! In school you must walk."

My other material contradicts this. Laufen = Run....Which is it?

I also have a personal question: Your English is quite well, how long did it take for you to master it, and while
I am asking, was it harder to learn English or French?

I've had this question since I started but for some reason I haven't asked. Let me give the example first.

Renne nicht! In der Schule musst du laufen.

In the program I know this means "Don't run! In school you must walk."

My other material contradicts this. Laufen = Run....Which is it?


This is a bit confusing - I can understand that since it is not that clear for Germans, too.

On the one hand, "laufen" is used for "to run" like in athletic sports. "Laufen" can furthermore be just "walking".

If somebody says: "Ich bin von der Schule nach Hause gelaufen", it can either mean that the guy walked home or that the guy ran home from school. In most cases, the "walk" would apply here and a lot of people would actually understand it like that.

A more specific term for "walking (slowly)" is "gehen", but not everybody uses it - just look at your program. It is not wrong what the program suggested though!


I also have a personal question: Your English is quite well, how long did it take for you to master it, and while
I am asking, was it harder to learn English or French?


I am learning English since age 11 and it took at least 10 years to get this kind of proficiency. I was only learning in my home country and have only been abroad in English-speaking countries for shorter travel trips. It might work a lot faster if you spend some longer time in the country of the respective language you are learning.

French was a bit harder. I started at 13 and stopped at 19 when I changed school. It was interesting to learn the basics, but it was never my language. Just this morning there was a French TV show on and I tried to understand something... it was ... nearly impossible after so many years without direct confrontation. My old French however always "comes back" when visit France - it always takes some time, but the basics are still there.

I am learning English since age 11 and it took at least 10 years to get this kind of proficiency. I was only learning in my home country and have only been abroad in English-speaking countries for shorter travel trips. It might work a lot faster if you spend some longer time in the country of the respective language you are learning.


I will be retirement eligible in 4 years. I hope to spend some time in Germany, that's the plan anyway. I was thinking about
spending some time in church. Not that I am religious but there is a Lutheran Church in Philadelphia, PA that has it's service
strictly in German. It can only help right! It makes harder when there is no one to speak to.

I've scheduled a session for Friday. The last few sessions the Moderator had we, as learners, ask each other
and the Moderator questions. Pictures from the lessions are shown and we ask questions about what we see.
I've went over the lesson and came up with some questions, basic questions but after all we are all new at this.
I don't know what pictures will be shown so these are questions I've come up with dealing with what might be
shown. Are they okay?

Wie viele Leute sind auf dem Bus/der Zug?
Wie viele Leute sind im Auto?
Wie viele Leute sind s t e h e n?
Wie viele Leute sind Männer/Frauen?
Was ist der Mann tragen?
Welches Farbe hat der zweite Mantel?

1.Wie viele Leute sind auf dem Bus/der Zug?

This is probably due to the English translation "on the bus". In German, we use "in" for people who are using public transportation: "Wie viele Leute sind in dem Bus/in dem Zug?"

2.Wie viele Leute sind im Auto?

That's correct.

3.Wie viele Leute sind s t e h e n?

This one has to be used without the "sind". We do not have a special construction for present progressive.
Some people say "Wie viele Leute sind am s t e h e n?", but this is not good German.

4.Wie viele Leute sind Männer/Frauen?

That's correct again.

5.Was ist der Mann tragen?

Same as in 3. You have to write it like the simple present form: "Was trägt der Mann?"

6.Welches Farbe hat der zweite Mantel?

Nearly correct, but it's just "Welche" without the "s".

Grammar continues to be my bane. I will put the corrections in my notebook. I will look over the lesson again and
see if I can come up with a few more questions. We'll see how it goes.

I know "auf" is one of those words with multiple meanings but is it safe to say when "auf"
is used to mean "on" it actually means on top of something? as in...

Sie legen Handtücher auf den Stuhl.

Which leads me to another question, why is the s added to the end of "auf" in this sentence?

Wir legen die Decken aufs Bett.

Is this one of the contractions we've discussed earlier?

I know "auf" is one of those words with multiple meanings but is it safe to say when "auf"
is used to mean "on" it actually means on top of something? as in...

Sie legen Handtücher auf den Stuhl.


Yes, in most cases, "auf" means "on top" of something. "Auf" can also mean "open" in casual speech BTW!


Wir legen die Decken aufs Bett.

Is this one of the contractions we've discussed earlier?


Yes, this is a contraction. It is the short form of "auf das Bett". However in conrast to the examples in the other posting, "aufs" - as well as "ins" (in das), "ums" (um das) or "ans" (ans) are more accepted in written German because no apostrophe is needed here.

The questions I have today are more about protocol than antything else.

I've mentioned before about the chat room in the program and the reason I don't really go there.
I read the post but seldom do I submit posts. Here are a couple of post that will lead to my questions.

Hallo! Wie geht´s alles. Ich lebe in Indiana, Tschuss.

Wie geht es du?

First: Shouldn't the greetings be a little bit more formal?
Second: In the first post, my understanding is leben means to exist whereas wohnen means to reside. Am I correct?

I know one of my biggest problems is knowing which word to use and when. I am building my vocabulary but right now it
is very limited.