I was going through my daughter and son's backpacks the other day when they got home from school and came across a paper stating that all parents who volunteer at school will now have to have a background check. 

I have no problem with having one done, although I do kinda have a problem with having to pay for it out of my pocket.  :D  It doesn't cost much, $7.00 plus the cost of having something notarized.  Maybe $12.00 at the most, I can afford that but I know there are many lower income families and that might not be something they can afford.

I was just curious if this has become a standard procedure in schools across the country and if the schools in you area require it, do you have to pay for it yourself.

I haven't filled out the paper work yet, I guess I need to get it in soon, I don't want them to think that I've been hiding something for the last 5 years that I've volunteered.    :o ;D

I don't know if it is standard, but it is a good idea.  They make us go through one at church to teach sunday school. 

As for paying, I think the school should pay for it but I can see where they might not be able to.  I can see your dilemma.

What a crock that you have to pay for them to check you out. I'm curious as to what they check for, istm like anything else it will start with good intentions then go downhill rapidly from there. You allow the background checks and pay for them, what next? - paying for your own UA to prove you arent on drugs? Paying for your own credit reports? Making volunteers pay for that is an insult. The world is screwed up when freely giving your own time to better someone else's life isnt good enough.

- 1

Ant

I was going through my daughter and son's backpacks the other day when they got home from school and came across a paper stating that all parents who volunteer at school will now have to have a background check. 

I have no problem with having one done, although I do kinda have a problem with having to pay for it out of my pocket.  :D  It doesn't cost much, $7.00 plus the cost of having something notarized.  Maybe $12.00 at the most, I can afford that but I know there are many lower income families and that might not be something they can afford.

I was just curious if this has become a standard procedure in schools across the country and if the schools in you area require it, do you have to pay for it yourself.

I haven't filled out the paper work yet, I guess I need to get it in soon, I don't want them to think that I've been hiding something for the last 5 years that I've volunteered.    :o ;D
I totally agree with having the background check!  In order to be a 4H volunteer I had to have a background check (and yes pay - THE STATE...)  Perhaps the state could make these for free, I do not think many school districts have the funds to pay for them (because of the tightened belts of the state DE's and National DE's ).  It is unfortunate state that we have to do this, but it is for our children's safety.  I would worry if I found out someone (of an unsavory sort) was working in close proximity of my daughters. 

I think I'm with Ant on this... although I do understand the safety concerns... but the school can run their names through the Meghan's Law database without having to inconvenience the volunteer...

but you want me to jump through hoops so that I can have the privilege of doing you a favor?? And you want me to pay for it?   Sorry, you'd best look for another volunteer.

I think I'm with Ant on this... although I do understand the safety concerns... but the school can run their names through the Meghan's Law database without having to inconvenience the volunteer...

but you want me to jump through hoops so that I can have the privilege of doing you a favor?? And you want me to pay for it?   Sorry, you'd best look for another volunteer.
I am in a very small town and a rural county - and even I know of one pedophile who was caught here, who had changed their name and wasn't registered.  There is a use for fingerprints. Everyone wants to think it won't happen there - and it really freaks me out.  :-\\    Problem - city's keep forcing them out of their area - so what makes my child less important because we live in rural america than the child that lives in town...

I was going through my daughter and son's backpacks the other day when they got home from school and came across a paper stating that all parents who volunteer at school will now have to have a background check. 

I have no problem with having one done, although I do kinda have a problem with having to pay for it out of my pocket.  :D  It doesn't cost much, $7.00 plus the cost of having something notarized.  Maybe $12.00 at the most, I can afford that but I know there are many lower income families and that might not be something they can afford.

I was just curious if this has become a standard procedure in schools across the country and if the schools in you area require it, do you have to pay for it yourself.

I haven't filled out the paper work yet, I guess I need to get it in soon, I don't want them to think that I've been hiding something for the last 5 years that I've volunteered.    :o ;D


It has been the norm in Aussie schools for many years now. After checking police records etc they issue you a 'blue card'. If you don't have a 'blue card' you can't even work in the tuck shop (canteen).  I can work on the school grounds (mowing, weeding etc) without a blue card ...but only if it's on the week-end and no other school activity is going on.  We also have to pay for them ourselves...

As a former teacher, I think it is an excellent idea for background checks. However, I'm not too sure about having the volunteers pay for it. I live in a rural area where there are a lot of low income people. Unfortunately, our school system doesn't have a lot of extra $$$$. There are many times, the budget doesn't pass. (FYI, I ALWAYS for vote "Yes" for whatever budget is on the ballot.) It p!sses me off when people don't want to spend $$$$$ on our future-our kids.


Cat

I work for a school district and we require all parent volunteers to have background checks, but we certainly don't require them to pay for it.  I'm not sure how the process works - I know that the district I work for is the biggest in the state, so I'm sure the process is very streamlined.  I think it's a great practice - like many have said it provides peace of mind for the parents.  But I think the district should foot the bill. 

Thanks for all the replies.  I know it's for the safety of my children and I don't want to sound like it's about the money because God knows that $12.00 is nothing if it helps keep my kids safe. 

I guess I would feel less cynical if I got paperwork from the County, State of Virginia or School Board, but what I got was a piece of paper that I could have printed from my computer.  I'm thinking to myself, what if that school is just going to pocket the money, knowing good and well a person who has a crimial background won't even bother volunteering.  Stupid, huh?

I've volunteered at the school since Meg was in kindergarten and I've always been careful, I will not be alone with a student and would not assist a child with the restroom. One time when Meg was in kindergarten a little boy came out of the bathroom and he couldn't button his jeans, I made him stand and the door of the bathroom while i found his teacher.  I know I would never do anything to a child I just don't want anyone to ever question it.  Know what I mean? 

I think background checks are a great idea! We don't have this at our school district right now, but it would make parents feel a lot safer, however, I think it should be up to the school district to pay for this.

In the UK there are two types of background checks.  If you just volunteer to help at a school event such as a school disco/day trip somewhere then you are List 99'ed.  They need your name, date of birth and home address.  This is then checked on the list of registered sex offenders.

If you are going to work in the school (also scout/guide leaders etc) then you need to be CRB'ed (Criminal Records Bureau).  This costs the school about £10 (it is free for volunteer organisations).  This checking goes into more detail (checking previous addresses, any police investigations even if you were found innocent, collecting references etc)

I volunteer at a Church and I have for years. When I volunteer with children, which I have often, I have to get a police check done. It's abouit $25 here in the Vancouver area.

Your town would have to have its head up its butt not to have a background check as a requirement.  Even it it's creepy to examine another person's past, they can't be in a position of having been offered data and refused it.

I don't have a problem with the background check, but the schools shouldn't complain that they are so short on volunteers when they put all the legwork and expense on the volunteer.


like...


Hey guys, I'm moving in a couple weeks, I need someone to give up their weekend to help me move.  Here's a form if you want to help me, you will need to bring a moving van (and pay for it), so fill this out, and if you're really lucky, you'll be selected!  :D

I don't think I'd get many takers either.

I don't have a problem with the background check, but the schools shouldn't complain that they are so short on volunteers when they put all the legwork and expense on the volunteer.


like...


Hey guys, I'm moving in a couple weeks, I need someone to give up their weekend to help me move.  Here's a form if you want to help me, you will need to bring a moving van (and pay for it), so fill this out, and if you're really lucky, you'll be selected!  :D

I don't think I'd get many takers either.


The big difference being that one of these processes protects our kids.  ;)

Goto a school board meeting, they are open to the public.  Raise your questions, see what the finances are???  Only way something can get changed.  I am sure there are provisions for parents of free and reduced lunch, don't have pay the fee.  I am sorry, but in our school, us teachers, para educators even have to pay for our background checks...  So I really am not understanding your complaint.  People want to help children, in today's day and age this is the way things have to be.  I am sure they just did not implement this over night, something has happened.

Goto a school board meeting, they are open to the public.   Raise your questions, see what the finances are???  Only way something can get changed.  I am sure there are provisions for parents of free and reduced lunch, don't have pay the fee.  I am sorry, but in our school, us teachers, para educators even have to pay for our background checks...  So I really am not understanding your complaint.  People want to help children, in today's day and age this is the way things have to be.   I am sure they just did not implement this over night, something has happened.


I know school board meetings are open to the public, I have been to a few.

I'm not complaining, just curious. It's not about the money for me, it just seemed strange that I was required to pay for it. I wanted to know if other schools around the country have volunteers pay for background checks.  The only thing that seemed strange about it was the form that was sent home, usually if there is a policy change I recieve a letter on the official county letterhead.  Nothing has come home from the county and nothing is on the website about this new policy.

My God.  Are we so paranoid that we think that our neighbors, parents of our kids schoolmates, are perverts?  This is the kind of paranoia that perpetuates fear and discord among us.  It seems to me that the first think we must presume is that our neighbors are good people, just as we are, and maybe we shoiuld meet them to find out, like in the old days

My God.  Are we so paranoid that we think that our neighbors, parents of our kids schoolmates, are perverts? 


Yes, we are.

I don't like kids.  That's why I didn't have any.  But until the paranoia went overboard in the early 00s, I'd still have gone out of my way to protect someone else's.  I'm not gonna be Einstein.  I'm not gonna be Hitler.  But a kid's still got the option to be either.  If Hitlers outnumbered Einsteins, we wouldn't be here, so let's roll the dice.  He's got a couple of decades more than I do to make a difference.

But that was then, this is now.  Now?  Now, if I saw a kid screaming in the middle of the railroad tracks with a freight train barreling down on it, I might catch the attention of the nearest female passer-by and direct her to save the kid's life while I called 911. 

A false accusation is as good as a death sentence.  If the helicopter parent can't be around to prevent the kid from getting run over by a train, then I'm under no obligation to pull the kid off the tracks.  If there are no female strangers around who can be directed to grab the kid and haul him to safety, I'll call 911 and tell 'em to send a water tanker to hose down the mess.

A civil suit for negligence isn't a life-ending deal, especially when you can offer "The authorities repeatedly tell everyone they're better equipped to professionally deal with problems than mere civilians, so I, a mere civilian, did my duty and contacted the authorities via 911" as a defense.  If the kid says "yes" when the cop asks "Did the stranger hurt you when he grabbed you", your life ends and there is no defense.  The cop gets a bonus, the DA gets a promotion, and the judge gets re-elected.  So if it's the kid or me, and it ain't gonna be me.  The cops tell me to let them handle stuff, so I call them and let them handle stuff.

I didn't say I was proud of it.  I don't like the rules, in fact, I'm embarassed and sickened by the rules.  But I didn't make the rules, I just play by them.

This is just one example of many, but if you help a kid, you can get arrested, even if you, yourself, are a kid.  Glub help you if you're an adult!

"All bruised and broken, bleeding,
She asked to take my hand.
I turned, just keep on walking,
But you'd do the same thing in the circumstance I'm sure you'll understand."
   - NIN, Survivalism, 2007, Year Zero

(I got my propaganda, I got revisionism / I got my violence in hi-def-ultra-realism / All a part of this great nation / I got my fist, I got my plan, I got survivalism.)

Yes, we are.

I don't like kids.  That's why I didn't have any.  But until the paranoia went overboard in the early 00s, I'd still have gone out of my way to protect someone else's.  I'm not gonna be Einstein.  I'm not gonna be Hitler.  But a kid's still got the option to be either.  If Hitlers outnumbered Einsteins, we wouldn't be here, so let's roll the dice.  He's got a couple of decades more than I do to make a difference.

But that was then, this is now.  Now?  Now, if I saw a kid screaming in the middle of the railroad tracks with a freight train barreling down on it, I might catch the attention of the nearest female passer-by and direct her to save the kid's life while I called 911. 

A false accusation is as good as a death sentence.  If the helicopter parent can't be around to prevent the kid from getting run over by a train, then I'm under no obligation to pull the kid off the tracks.  If there are no female strangers around who can be directed to grab the kid and haul him to safety, I'll call 911 and tell 'em to send a water tanker to hose down the mess.

A civil suit for negligence isn't a life-ending deal, especially when you can offer "The authorities repeatedly tell everyone they're better equipped to professionally deal with problems than mere civilians, so I, a mere civilian, did my duty and contacted the authorities via 911" as a defense.  If the kid says "yes" when the cop asks "Did the stranger hurt you when he grabbed you", your life ends and there is no defense.  The cop gets a bonus, the DA gets a promotion, and the judge gets re-elected.  So if it's the kid or me, and it ain't gonna be me.  The cops tell me to let them handle stuff, so I call them and let them handle stuff.

I didn't say I was proud of it.  I don't like the rules, in fact, I'm embarassed and sickened by the rules.  But I didn't make the rules, I just play by them.

This is just one example of many, but if you help a kid, you can get arrested, even if you, yourself, are a kid.  Glub help you if you're an adult!

"All bruised and broken, bleeding,
She asked to take my hand.
I turned, just keep on walking,
But you'd do the same thing in the circumstance I'm sure you'll understand."
   - NIN, Survivalism, 2007, Year Zero

(I got my propaganda, I got revisionism / I got my violence in hi-def-ultra-realism / All a part of this great nation / I got my fist, I got my plan, I got survivalism.)


This is the paranoid bull crap I'm talking about.  Did you ever hear of good Samaritan laws?  I don't know about other states but we have them in VT.  Sure. call 911, but if you can pull that kid off the tracks and not get killed yourself, how could you live with yourself if you just turned away?  I know I couldn't, but then, I have kids, whom I love dearly, and grandkids, ditto.  And that love for my own forces me to love the kids of others, and want the same for them as I want for mine.  Good thing you don't have kids.  My suggestion is keep it that way, and join the Tin Man.

This is the paranoid bull crap I'm talking about.  Did you ever hear of good Samaritan laws?


The Good Samaritan laws are for defending oneself against personal injury lawsuits, in which the concept of "reasonable man" applies, and in which the preponderance of evidence is what matters.  Those are civil issues, settled by reasonable people in courts of law.

I'm not talking about pulling an adult out of a burning car.  (Or supervising and comforting an adult in an otherwise-stable wreck until someone shows up with the jaws of life.)  

I'm talking about this and this.  These are symptoms of a paranoid culture, and are settled by witch hunts in the court of public opinion.  That 14-year-old kid who tried to help another kid find its parents?  Just by being charged, and even if the charges are dropped, his life is over.

That's the kind of paranoid crap I'm talking about.  Did you ever hear about reality?

Some co-workers of mine and I had this debate over beers last week, and even parents aren't immune.  One of my male co-workers got the hairy eyeball from the females at the park for nothing more than holding his daughter's hand while taking her for a walk.  Everything was OK when his wife showed up 5 minutes later (having found a place to park) but for a few moments that day, he knew where I was coming from.

Helicopter parents have created a world in which everyone's out to get their kid - so as a non-parent, the only rational response is to respond accordingly: find a parent (who, by virtue of being a parent, is allowed to help), but failing that, to ignore their kids.  "Stranger danger" never goes away, no matter how old you get.  It's just that we non-parents live in a world in which we have to assume that every parent is out to find some excuse for their own failure as a parent to protect their own offspring.  

if you can pull that kid off the tracks and not get killed yourself, how could you live with yourself if you just turned away?

Honestly, it wouldn't be easy.  I'd be damn tempted to help.

But look at the odds: a 100% proability of spending the next 20 years of living in my own apartment, eating my own food, drinking my own beer, making wisecracks on the Internet to distract myself from the memory of the gibs flying through the air as the train smacks the kid into the next dimension?  Sucky.  But that beats even a 1% chance of "20 years of prison rape and a lifetime on The List".

Plenty of things suck about this world, this is just one of 'em.  I didn't write the rules, I hate the rules.  I'd rewrite them if I could, but I don't get to write the rules, and for non-parents, those are the rules.  I just live by 'em.  

Anyways, that's why schools have problems finding legitimate volunteers.  The only people who want to apply are the dwindling pool of high-minded idealists and the growing pool of ex-Catholic priests.  That demographic shift makes more stringent background checks necessary, further shrinking the pool of legitimate volunteers, and increasing the odds that only the sickest of the sick get through.  Catch-22.

The Good Samaritan laws are for defending oneself against personal injury lawsuits, in which the concept of "reasonable man" applies, and in which the preponderance of evidence is what matters.  Those are civil issues, settled by reasonable people in courts of law.

I'm not talking about pulling an adult out of a burning car.  (Or supervising and comforting an adult in an otherwise-stable wreck until someone shows up with the jaws of life.)  

I'm talking about this and this.  These are symptoms of a paranoid culture, and are settled by witch hunts in the court of public opinion.  That 14-year-old kid who tried to help another kid find its parents?  Just by being charged, and even if the charges are dropped, his life is over.

That's the kind of paranoid crap I'm talking about.  Did you ever hear about reality?

Some co-workers of mine and I had this debate over beers last week, and even parents aren't immune.  One of my male co-workers got the hairy eyeball from the females at the park for nothing more than holding his daughter's hand while taking her for a walk.  Everything was OK when his wife showed up 5 minutes later (having found a place to park) but for a few moments that day, he knew where I was coming from.

Helicopter parents have created a world in which everyone's out to get their kid - so as a non-parent, the only rational response is to respond accordingly: find a parent (who, by virtue of being a parent, is allowed to help), but failing that, to ignore their kids.  "Stranger danger" never goes away, no matter how old you get.  It's just that we non-parents live in a world in which we have to assume that every parent is out to find some excuse for their own failure as a parent to protect their own offspring.  

Honestly, it wouldn't be easy.  I'd be damn tempted to help.

But look at the odds: a 100% proability of spending the next 20 years of living in my own apartment, eating my own food, drinking my own beer, making wisecracks on the Internet to distract myself from the memory of the gibs flying through the air as the train smacks the kid into the next dimension?  Sucky.  But that beats even a 1% chance of "20 years of prison rape and a lifetime on The List".

Plenty of things suck about this world, this is just one of 'em.  I didn't write the rules, I hate the rules.  I'd rewrite them if I could, but I don't get to write the rules, and for non-parents, those are the rules.  I just live by 'em.  

Anyways, that's why schools have problems finding legitimate volunteers.  The only people who want to apply are the dwindling pool of high-minded idealists and the growing pool of ex-Catholic priests.  That demographic shift makes more stringent background checks necessary, further shrinking the pool of legitimate volunteers, and increasing the odds that only the sickest of the sick get through.  Catch-22.


As a parent and grand Parent, yes,  I was, and do encourage me kids to be cautious, but good lord, you are absolutely paranoid.  I'm really not sure where you get these "rules" that you don't like, but I never heard them.  I don't know where you live, but where I live, we look out for each other.  We have a "Kid Safe"  decal on our window.  I feel sorry for you and your paranoia.  Pete said it best, Seeger that it "if we could love another child as our own..."  I'm sure there is no way I can convince you to give up your cynicism, but as a very intelligent person, I really find it disappointing that you seem to have difficulty linking your intelligence with compassion

I don't know where you live, but where I live, we look out for each other.  We have a "Kid Safe"  decal on our window.


The key word in your post is "we".  You have a spouse and at least one child who will act as character references.

If it was just you - no spouse, no kids - would you be so confident?  (If you didn't have such a sticker as a bachelor, why not?)

As a parent and grand Parent, yes,  I was, and do encourage me kids to be cautious, but good lord, you are absolutely paranoid.  I'm really not sure where you get these "rules" that you don't like, but I never heard them.  I don't know where you live, but where I live, we look out for each other.  We have a "Kid Safe"  decal on our window.  I feel sorry for you and your paranoia.  Pete said it best, Seeger that it "if we could love another child as our own..."  I'm sure there is no way I can convince you to give up your cynicism, but as a very intelligent person, I really find it disappointing that you seem to have difficulty linking your intelligence with compassion


You are quoting Pete Seeger to a guy who likes Sigue Sigue Sputnik.  I don't think he's going to be convinced!

I trace the problem back to cheap fossil fuels.

That's right.  Cheap fossil fuels made the suburbs possible.  The automobile suburbs allowed us to go from our jobs to our homes to our places of worship in three different towns without having to meet anybody from any of the three towns.  We pay dearly for the luxury of estrangement. 

I'm not idealizing the old days.  Salem village in 1692 was not an automobile suburb.  However, the automobile suburb seemed to create a distinct paranoia perhaps reminiscent of strange people on rural farmsteads in times gone by.  When people go off by themselves too much, they start imagining things.  It provokes anxiety.  Anxiety invites speculation on the worst thing in the world happening right under your nose.  In 1692 Massachusetts it was witchcraft.  In late 20th century America, it was child molestation.  No community, no mental health.
::)

You are quoting Pete Seeger to a guy who likes Sigue Sigue Sputnik.


*coffeespew* :)  WIN!  If I hadn't already Karma'd you in the past 24 hours...


That's right.  Cheap fossil fuels made the suburbs possible.  The automobile suburbs allowed us to go from our jobs to our homes to our places of worship in three different towns without having to meet anybody from any of the three towns.  We pay dearly for the luxury of estrangement.  


I'll buy that.  One of the few things upon which I actually agree with the leftie folks is that notion of alienation.  (Coming from the minarchist right, I've got no problem with alienation per se, in that I think the Commie Pinko notion of "community" and the Fundie Whackjob's notion of "community" is even worse.)

To get serious for a moment, I'm biased - I'm not alienated from my work: Yeah, I have a boss, but he basically gives me money and doesn't care how I get the job done, as long as I get something done.  And my work isn't (yet!) something that can be done by a machine.  I have to coordinate the actions of a lot of machines to produce anything.  Sometimes that's annoying, but it's fundamentally a creative task.  The means of production are my brains, and the day they stop paying me is the day I stop working for 'em.  I live in a world in which I, and my co-workers, really do own the means of production :)  Sure, I could take those brains to any other employer - and my current employer could hire another set of brains to replace mine - but the products of both companies would be different.  Although we're replaceable, we're not interchangeable, and as such, we're not alienated from the work that we do.

But that doesn't apply to suburbia.  I'll buy that part of the alienation concept - I don't know my neighbors, don't care to.  There's no social intersection between my world and theirs, and there's no reason to get to know them - and I'm sure they feel the same way about me.  I go weeks without even seeing them.  So if they - or one of their kids - disappeared, sure, it'd suck for them, but it wouldn't really change my life except to remind me that it cuts both ways: anything happens to me, nobody'll notice until someone downwind of my place smells something funny.  

Oh, and just for you, Max - I live in a country in which even the poorest of us have problems with obesity.  That beats the hell out of being one of the "multimillions still unfed" (F1-11 Love Missile), and I'm grateful for the taste I got of the "space-age party that's never gonna stop" (Rio Rocks), even though I'll never make enough money to Buy EMI, let alone turn get to star in a real-live version of the video for...

"Rolex Rolls-Royce Romeo
Say hello to Saville Row,
Take a cheque from Coutts and Co.
Limousines, all systems go!

Sex! Fun! Success!
Sex! Fun! Success!"
- Sigue Sigue Sputnik, Success

...well, that's just something I'm gonna have to live with.  Is This The Future??  Well, yeah, but it's better than the Mutual Assured Destruction or Massive Retaliation that I expected when the music was first created.  Welcome to the 21st Century, so glad we made it, even if I now have to figure out how to track down DJ Clive$ter's Sigue Sigue Sputnik vs. Beasties mashups...

Damn.  I love it when everything I worry about is a (OK, here's one that isn't a Sigue Sigue Sputnik reference!) First World Problem. :)

Sorry to interupt guys, but Carol - I was in our HR office the other day, and saw a sign that says that all new employees, substitutes, and PARENT VOLUNTEERS now have to pay $40.00 to be fingerprinted and have background checks run.

If you are a new employee you can have it deducted from your first check.

So yeah...that might make you feel better!  ;D

Sorry to interupt guys, but Carol - I was in our HR office the other day, and saw a sign that says that all new employees, substitutes, and PARENT VOLUNTEERS now have to pay $40.00 to be fingerprinted and have background checks run.

If you are a new employee you can have it deducted from your first check.

So yeah...that might make you feel better!   ;D
That is exactly what we had to do, when I was hired as a teacher - I was "conditional" until the background check came back clear.

*coffeespew* :)  WIN!  If I hadn't already Karma'd you in the past 24 hours...

Oh, and just for you, Max - I live in a country in which even the poorest of us have problems with obesity.  That beats the hell out of being one of the "multimillions still unfed" (F1-11 Love Missile), and I'm grateful for the taste I got of the "space-age party that's never gonna stop" (Rio Rocks), even though I'll never make enough money to Buy EMI, let alone turn get to star in a real-live version of the video for...

"Rolex Rolls-Royce Romeo
Say hello to Saville Row,
Take a cheque from Coutts and Co.
Limousines, all systems go!

Sex! Fun! Success!
Sex! Fun! Success!"
- Sigue Sigue Sputnik, Success

...well, that's just something I'm gonna have to live with.  Is This The Future??  Well, yeah, but it's better than the Mutual Assured Destruction or Massive Retaliation that I expected when the music was first created.  Welcome to the 21st Century, so glad we made it, even if I now have to figure out how to track down DJ Clive$ter's Sigue Sigue Sputnik vs. Beasties mashups...



Overfed and undernourished.  It is the sign of a society in decline.  We don't recognize it because the classic symptom is mass famine.    The one-time shot-in-the-arm hydrocarbon-induced green revolution gave us more corn than we knew what we knew what to do with it, and, unlike Pharaoh, we all got our fair share and we pigged out!  We could shuffle papers at school and we could shuffle papers at work and never have to till the land.  You might grow some tomatoes or squashes outback but that's about the extent of it.  We are never going to replicate what we had with cheap fossil fuels under any regimen of solar, wind, biodiesel, gasahol, and nukes.  I agree with James Howard Kunstler.  And with a name like Kunstler, he'd better be right!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/15/thumbsup.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Zg_Nb-3bA

He's one of a few outside that cyber-punk dystopian genre who has the sacks to say we're not going to get to live like we did in the 20th century by the end of the 21st century.  The future was always coming to a climax.  Maybe we're at the peak right now and technology is NOT going to save our sorry asses from ourselves!

Maybe we're at the peak right now and technology is NOT going to save our sorry asses from ourselves!


I've argued that since I saw The Matrix.  Hey, I got to see the peak of my culture.  Not many people have gotten to say that since the days of ancient Rome.

On the other hand, nobody ever made any real money betting against (long-term) success of the species.  Even if you won, from whom would you collect the winnings?

Sorry to interupt guys, but Carol - I was in our HR office the other day, and saw a sign that says that all new employees, substitutes, and PARENT VOLUNTEERS now have to pay $40.00 to be fingerprinted and have background checks run.

If you are a new employee you can have it deducted from your first check.

So yeah...that might make you feel better!   ;D


Thanks, Ash.

Like I said I have no problem having a background check done, I just wanted to know if it was the norm and if people had to pay.

Meanwhile, the UK takes the hysteria beyond even America's levels of silly:

"Ma'am, we know you work serving lunch at the school, but put down the cookie and back away from the lunch counter."

(Back in the day, I just wanted a Pepsi.  But at least I know why she wouldn't give it to me.)

Meanwhile, the UK takes the hysteria beyond even America's levels of silly:

"Ma'am, we know you work serving lunch at the school, but put down the cookie and back away from the lunch counter."

(Back in the day, I just wanted a Pepsi.  But at least I know why she wouldn't give it to me.)


Why wouldn't she give it to you?

Why wouldn't she give it to you?


Because he wasn't thinking.  He was on drugs.  Normal people don't act that way!

Because he wasn't thinking.  He was on drugs.  Normal people don't act that way!


Max, I'm not on drugs, I was just thinking. 

(OK, maybe a couple of cups of coffee this morning and a couple of beers this evening, but those are the drugs that normal people use.  What are you trying to say?)

Max, I'm not on drugs, I was just thinking. 

(OK, maybe a couple of cups of coffee this morning and a couple of beers this evening, but those are the drugs that normal people use.  What are you trying to say?)


What I'm trying to say is, it doesn't matter, I'll probably just get hit by a car anyway.

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/02/buck.gif

You two and your damn tangents!  ::)

And I STILL don't get the Pepsi reference!  :P

You two and your damn tangents!   ::)

And I STILL don't get the Pepsi reference!   :P


Original, with lyrics, and cover band's video that's better than the real thing.

You'll figure it out.  We'll leave you alone, y'know, you'll just work it out yourself...

Holy effing schitt.

I haven't heard that song since I was 17.

I forgot about it.

Completely and utterly.

When you said you only wanted a pepsi there was something familiar about it.  Really familiar.  But I just couldn't place it.  And I was thinking "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest?"  Which was actually pretty close.  So I was getting there.

I used to listen to this ALL the time. 

Man.  Thanks for that.  I'm reading Brave New World right now...and this song is really tying in to that whole theme and my thought process...wow.

Man.  Thanks for that.  I'm reading Brave New World right now...and this song is really tying in to that whole theme and my thought process...wow.


If I were an Alpha, I'd be working now.  Instead, I click on the Bloomberg futures, see that the G20 has accomplished nothing more than posturing, and that the dollar is down and commodities are up, crack open a beer, and head over here, knowing that I can sleep soundly.  I'm really awfuly glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard!

(Max, you wanna go Huxley on this tangent, or do you wanna break out the Rage Against the Machine?)

If I were an Alpha, I'd be working now.  Instead, I click on the Bloomberg futures, see that the G20 has accomplished nothing more than posturing, and that the dollar is down and commodities are up, crack open a beer, and head over here, knowing that I can sleep soundly.  I'm really awfuly glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard!

(Max, you wanna go Huxley on this tangent, or do you wanna break out the Rage Against the Machine?)


You know what I keep thinking?  No damn soma has ever sent me on a holiday like that! 

If I were an Alpha, I'd be working now.  Instead, I click on the Bloomberg futures, see that the G20 has accomplished nothing more than posturing, and that the dollar is down and commodities are up, crack open a beer, and head over here, knowing that I can sleep soundly.  I'm really awfuly glad I'm a Beta, because I don't work so hard!

(Max, you wanna go Huxley on this tangent, or do you wanna break out the Rage Against the Machine?)


Why would somebody want to be an Alpha?  I've been a happy Epsilon ever since the tube.  Now pass me another stick of that pheromone gum, there's gonna be a lot of hot Epsilon babes at the sock hop tonight!
:)

Why would somebody want to be an Alpha?  I've been a happy Epsilon ever since the tube.  Now pass me another stick of that pheromone gum, there's gonna be a lot of hot Epsilon babes at the sock hop tonight! :)


Oh, you Epsilons (Sorry dude, you're at least a Gamma whether you like it or not.  Way too articulate for Delta or Epsilon), always going on with their prospective mating ceremonies.  You should be playing more video games.  It's like virtual soma.  You get completely immersed in something like New Vegas, and it takes you the rest of the day to pull yourself back to reality.  Good Ford, I'm taking next Friday off just to start playing early.

I was the annoying kid in class who thought Brave New World sounded like a lot more fun than 1984, and that if I had any say in how things turned out, then bring on the soma.  They said I was crazy, I said I was just a minority of one.  And our rulers still haven't made up their minds how best to pacify us.  Geez, guys, make up your minds and get it together already!

Oh, you Epsilons (Sorry dude, you're at least a Gamma whether you like it or not.  Way too articulate for Delta or Epsilon), always going on with their prospective mating ceremonies.  You should be playing more video games.  It's like virtual soma.  You get completely immersed in something like New Vegas, and it takes you the rest of the day to pull yourself back to reality.  Good Ford, I'm taking next Friday off just to start playing early.

I was the annoying kid in class who thought Brave New World sounded like a lot more fun than 1984, and that if I had any say in how things turned out, then bring on the soma.  They said I was crazy, I said I was just a minority of one.  And our rulers still haven't made up their minds how best to pacify us.  Geez, guys, make up your minds and get it together already!


I for one would prefer not to be pacified, for once I agree with lyric boy, "often agitated, never medicated".  Go figure

I for one would prefer not to be pacified, for once I agree with lyric boy, "often agitated, never medicated".  Go figure


I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to change my sig line to "Always medicated, still irritated."  ;)

I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to change my sig line to "Always medicated, still irritated."   ;)


;D ;D ;D ;D

I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to change my sig line to "Always medicated, still irritated."   ;)


"I'd rather have this bottle in front of me,
Than have to have a frontal lobotomy...
I might be drunk, but at least I'm not insane."
  - Randy Hanzlick, ca. 1980, aired over 60 times on the Dr. Demento Show...

Obligatory Serious Comment:  We've made lots of progress in understanding mental illness since then, but sometimes I have my doubts about our notions of progress.  For example, in 1980, only a comedian would describe drinking as a self-medicating behavior.  Today, you see it in the literature all the time.  It's technically correct, and well-grounded in science, but it still makes me laugh every time I read it.

"I'd rather have this bottle in front of me,
Than have to have a frontal lobotomy...
I might be drunk, but at least I'm not insane."
  - Randy Hanzlick, ca. 1980, aired over 60 times on the Dr. Demento Show...

Obligatory Serious Comment:  We've made lots of progress in understanding mental illness since then, but sometimes I have my doubts about our notions of progress.  For example, in 1980, only a comedian would describe drinking as a self-medicating behavior.  Today, you see it in the literature all the time.  It's technically correct, and well-grounded in science, but it still makes me laugh every time I read it.



I remember that song. And yes, I heard it on the Dr. D. Show.



Cat

Oh dear......I only know it from a Faster Pussycat song lyric  :-[

'a bottle in front of me is like a frontal lobotomy'

"I'd rather have this bottle in front of me,
Than have to have a frontal lobotomy...
I might be drunk, but at least I'm not insane."
  - Randy Hanzlick, ca. 1980, aired over 60 times on the Dr. Demento Show...



"I'd rather have this full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy."

--Tom Waits (attributed, I never heard him say it)

My relatives think there's no problem you can't blot out if you just drink enough.  They know it doesn't really work like that.  So they drink even more to numb the despair!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_bounce.gif