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I don't think it is an obligation to marry or have kids.  Some people, like my sister, aren't they marrying or parenting type.  I have had people tell me she is selfish for not having kids...her reason is she doesn't want to give up her Saturdays laying around doing nothing so she has no kids.  I think it is better for her not to since she doesn't want to parent.

If people have a problem with others not having kids then they need to get lives.  It is none of their business.

People are great for imposing there own agendas on other people, and thinking less of them if they don't following suit. To say that everyone should strive to marry and have children is counter productive society, and damaging to children born of duty and not of love.

Personally, I don't think that everyone is fit to be parents.

I understand how some people use the Bible as a reference to "be fruitful & multiply." However, at the time when the Bible was written, the population was not very high and infant mortality rates where high. Today, the Earth is WAY over-populated-infant mortality rates are lower and people are living longer. At the rate of growth of the population, we are going to have a hard time feeding everyone. There is only so much food that we can produce.

Way back in the dark ages when I was married to my first husband. We were trying to have kids. I was told (by an eye doctor) that it was selfish of me to try because there was a 50/50 chance that I could give my child RP. Granted RP is NOT a life-threatening disease. I was shocked that he told me this. After a while, I thought about it and thought how dare he say that I was selfish for wanting to have a kid! But, it was not in the cards for me to have one. I don't have a problem with people wanted a couple of kids but I do have a problem with people who have litters. Yeah, I am from a big family-as with many in my generation, but today, some people go over-board IMO.




Cat

I heard it told that single people who neither want to get married or have kids are deemed selfish.  No one or no institution should look down at anyone's decisions in that matter.  Forcing the issue usually leads to irresponsibility and possible misery just to appease society.

I'm married, and my husband and I don't have kids.  We have tried to have them in the past, but weren't able to, and we've decided that we didn't want to resort to extensive fertility treatments.  We've just accepted the fact that we're going to be childless.  We're both fine with it.  Sure there are times that I wish I could have children, but more often than not I am happy with my life.

I have to say however, that I have had countless people ask me if I have children, and when I say no, they always ask me why not.  Literally, hundreds of people have asked me why not.  And it's just mind boggling to me.  Because there are going to be two answers to the question - either I am physically unable to have children, or I don't want them.  And really - either answer is a little uncomfortable.  If I say I can't have children, I automatically get a look of pity.  If I say I don't want them, I automatically get a look of incredulousness.  It's almost like I'm evil because I'm not doing everything possible to have a baby. 

I figure that if I couldn't get pregnant the old fashioned way, maybe it's just not in the cards for me.  Fertility drugs, in vitro fertilization, and other treatments seem to be almost normal these days.  And it seems like if you're not trying every avenue, then there's obviously something wrong with you mentally as well as physically.  And I just don't get that.  The way I look at it, we tried, and it didn't work.  'Nuff said.  Why torture ourselves for the foreseeable future?  I mean, I don't have anything against people who are trying that hard to get pregnant...but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  If I wanted a child that badly, I would adopt.  And obviously, I don't want one that badly.  Maybe I'm just missing the baby gene.

Anyway, I think this is a great topic, Echo Nomad.  It's certainly something that I'm confronted with on an almost daily basis.

I'm married, and my husband and I don't have kids.  We have tried to have them in the past, but weren't able to, and we've decided that we didn't want to resort to extensive fertility treatments.  We've just accepted the fact that we're going to be childless.  We're both fine with it.  Sure there are times that I wish I could have children, but more often than not I am happy with my life.

You can borrow Jason.  Just say the word and I'll ship him out to you. ;)

I have to say however, that I have had countless people ask me if I have children, and when I say no, they always ask me why not.  Literally, hundreds of people have asked me why not.  And it's just mind boggling to me.  Because there are going to be two answers to the question - either I am physically unable to have children, or I don't want them.  And really - either answer is a little uncomfortable.  If I say I can't have children, I automatically get a look of pity.  If I say I don't want them, I automatically get a look of incredulousness.  It's almost like I'm evil because I'm not doing everything possible to have a baby. 

The correct response to these queries is, "It is none of your f*cking business."  I wish I would have said that to the person who asked me why I went and did something stupid like getting pregnant. ::)

I figure that if I couldn't get pregnant the old fashioned way, maybe it's just not in the cards for me.  Fertility drugs, in vitro fertilization, and other treatments seem to be almost normal these days.  And it seems like if you're not trying every avenue, then there's obviously something wrong with you mentally as well as physically.  And I just don't get that.  The way I look at it, we tried, and it didn't work.  'Nuff said.  Why torture ourselves for the foreseeable future?  I mean, I don't have anything against people who are trying that hard to get pregnant...but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  If I wanted a child that badly, I would adopt.  And obviously, I don't want one that badly.  Maybe I'm just missing the baby gene.

My sister doesn't want kids.  As a matter of fact, she wants a tubal ligation, but they won't give her one because she's still too young.  The reason she doesn't want children is because she has a terrible temper and is afraid that she'll do something horrible to any child she does have.  This is what she tells people when they ask her if she's going to have kids or say she'll change her mind eventually about her stance on children.  The only child that she does like and adore is Jason.  Hell, she even got his name tattooed on her arm.

You can borrow Jason.  Just say the word and I'll ship him out to you. ;)



Send him right now! 

I'm married, and my husband and I don't have kids.  We have tried to have them in the past, but weren't able to, and we've decided that we didn't want to resort to extensive fertility treatments.  We've just accepted the fact that we're going to be childless.  We're both fine with it.  Sure there are times that I wish I could have children, but more often than not I am happy with my life.

I have to say however, that I have had countless people ask me if I have children, and when I say no, they always ask me why not.  Literally, hundreds of people have asked me why not.  And it's just mind boggling to me.  Because there are going to be two answers to the question - either I am physically unable to have children, or I don't want them.  And really - either answer is a little uncomfortable.  If I say I can't have children, I automatically get a look of pity.  If I say I don't want them, I automatically get a look of incredulousness.  It's almost like I'm evil because I'm not doing everything possible to have a baby. 

I figure that if I couldn't get pregnant the old fashioned way, maybe it's just not in the cards for me.  Fertility drugs, in vitro fertilization, and other treatments seem to be almost normal these days.  And it seems like if you're not trying every avenue, then there's obviously something wrong with you mentally as well as physically.  And I just don't get that.  The way I look at it, we tried, and it didn't work.  'Nuff said.  Why torture ourselves for the foreseeable future?  I mean, I don't have anything against people who are trying that hard to get pregnant...but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  If I wanted a child that badly, I would adopt.  And obviously, I don't want one that badly.  Maybe I'm just missing the baby gene.

Anyway, I think this is a great topic, Echo Nomad.  It's certainly something that I'm confronted with on an almost daily basis.



I hear ya. There are days when I am perfectly happy not to have any kids and other days.... :-\\  But it really isn't anyone's business why or why not you have any kids. I think the next time someone ask you why you don't have any kids, you can either use Jessica's answer or ask them, "Why do you HAVE kids?" You can go on to say that the world is overpopulated and that food is running out, etc. etc. Make THEM feel guilty about having kids.  http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/sagrin.gif



Cat

You can borrow Jason.  Just say the word and I'll ship him out to you. ;)



  Just make sure you use lots bubble wrap so she can pop 'em later...


  Procreation is the biological imperative.  Everything else is the window dressing...

No way.  I can't manage my own life, let alone somebody else's!
::)

For me I think NOT having children is the moral decision.  This is not self-ridicule, it's just the way it is.

For me I think NOT having children is the moral decision.  This is not self-ridicule, it's just the way it is.



You are the only person who knows if you have it in you to be a good parent.  I think people who try to decide for you should be slapped.

I could be wrong but I figure being able to have and support (without full government support) is a luxury. In a financial sense this is what upsets me about the whole "Octomom thing". But anyway I'm not sure why some people are freaking out about our generation(s) not being responsible, settling down and having children. From what I understand, we've had a babyboom for almost a decade. Add that to the 5 or 6 billion and growing population, we childless people should be getting medals. In effect, we're the most "green" people on the planet.


Ugh, don't even get me started on that Octo-crazy bitch.  That woman disgusts the crap out of me.

I have one child.  I want one more.  Anymore than that, and I don't think I could handle it.

Getting married and having chilluns is a voluntary thing.  Anyone else who thinks otherwise is cracked in the head.

I had a child before I should have (I was a college graduate but only a temp job lined up then ended up not getting accepted to grad school).  It has been a financial hardship and early on I often wondered if I made the right choice, but I look at how she is turning out and know that for all the rough times, I woudn't trade it for the world.  As you know, I was adopted and love my parents very much.  However, there is still that small piece of me that wonders....  I couldn't do it to her.

FTR, I was on welfare for a short amount of time right after I went back to college.  I was getting no child support and had no car, no job.  I was on it for less than/almost a year and then just had subsidized housing, but no welfare.  It didn't take long to see why women who couldn't afford to have more children kept having them.  Every time I would work a little harder to get a few bucks in my pocket, they would decrease my food stamps or aid.  It's like they were penalizing people who were trying to get out of the system.  It made it easy for me to see why women made the choice they did...the state was paying them more to not work than they would have made at a min. wage job.

I had a child before I should have (I was a college graduate but only a temp job lined up then ended up not getting accepted to grad school).  It has been a financial hardship and early on I often wondered if I made the right choice, but I look at how she is turning out and know that for all the rough times, I woudn't trade it for the world.  As you know, I was adopted and love my parents very much.  However, there is still that small piece of me that wonders....  I couldn't do it to her.

FTR, I was on welfare for a short amount of time right after I went back to college.  I was getting no child support and had no car, no job.  I was on it for less than/almost a year and then just had subsidized housing, but no welfare.  It didn't take long to see why women who couldn't afford to have more children kept having them.  Every time I would work a little harder to get a few bucks in my pocket, they would decrease my food stamps or aid.  It's like they were penalizing people who were trying to get out of the system.  It made it easy for me to see why women made the choice they did...the state was paying them more to not work than they would have made at a min. wage job.


It sounds to me like you were very brave and did your best to provide for your child.

There's a difference between deciding not to have children and saying a child in this world should not have been born.  Neither of us are saying the latter, of course.  However, it's hard to legislate responsibility.  I'm not talking just about the mothers of children born into indigence but the fathers as well.  In the '80s it got trendy thanks to dear sweet Ronald Reagan to demonize the women as "welfare queens," but it takes two to tango.

There's a difference between deciding not to have children and saying a child in this world should not have been born.  Neither of us are saying the latter, of course.  However, it's hard to legislate responsibility.  I'm not talking just about the mothers of children born into indigence but the fathers as well.  In the '80s it got trendy thanks to dear sweet Ronald Reagan to demonize the women as "welfare queens," but it takes two to tango.


  There was definately a tremendous slump in father's day card sales...

Not everyone is cut to be a parent, and as far as marriage only a select few can take it.

That fantasy of babies and marriage bliss is still sold to us but now it became a choice and it complicates things because sometimes is just easier to do what everyone else is doing, even when deep inside we know it's not what we want. Women from all over the world who lack the mother instinct are still judged and pressured by their families, by their firends to the point where they feel something must be wrong with them to feel that way.
By now it should be clear what this mentality raises, it explains why there are so many sheeshty parents out there, it explains why there are so many unhappy families around.

But at the same time if we think of the big picture, having children and raising them it's also a necessity for human kind so let's just hope there are a lot of couples making babies right now ;)

Is marriage (and having children) a privilege or an obligation of being a human? 


We don't ask our friends or co-workers "So, when are you going to get your cat?" or follow up with "That's cool, so you're getting a dog instead of a cat?".  Not because it could be impolite to cat people or dog people, but because it's a silly question, to which the answer might just as well be "a bird", "a houseplant", or "neither".

I know you asked it rhetorically, but if anyone seriously asked me that question, I'd answer Mu.  The question cannot be answered because it depends on incorrect assumptions.

Because it's neither a privilege nor a duty; it's a hobby. 

Karma to both the childfree and the childless...

(wait, what?  By "childfree", I mean someone who doesn't have kids because they don't want 'em; they're free of children; child-free.  I restrict the word "childless", to people who wants kids but doesn't have 'em.  Those people lack children; they're child-less.  Back in the dark ages, "everyone" had kids, therefore anyone who didn't, was child-less.  Hopefully this ain't the dark ages.)

Anyways, karma to both types on this thread, and for reinforcing my observation that there's been a real cultural/generational shift these past 10 years.  For the first time since the concept arose, the two groups are learning how to be civil towards each other.  I'm mature enough to understand that my childed friends/co-workers really do get a great reward out of raising their kids, and they're mature enough to understand that I'm not some kind of alien weirdo out to render the human race extinct, I'm just the kind of person who'd rather tinker with computers than diapers. 

I don't have kids for the same reason they don't have a pet Patagonian Saber-Toothed Meerkat.  There's nothing wrong with having a living room full of meerkats, just as long as it ain't my living room.  They'd chew on the wiring, causing the computers to fail.  There's nothing wrong with having a living room full of computer equipment, just as long as it ain't the living room of a family with small kids.  They'd chew on the wiring, which wouldn't be healthy or safe. 

And thus, the two monks achieved enlightenment.

Well that's why I'm not against certain measures that give financial and other advantages to families in order to help them raise their children. Recently though I did come across something that to me can only be caused by discrimination to those not in a relationship. I'm looking at booking a 2 day, riverboat cruise package that I've want to take for 10 years now. It is not a casino based trip or any other deal designed to get people to spend extra money. Yet a single occupancy ticket is charged 30 dollars more than a double occupancy. How does one person cost more than two? Considering that I'm only taking one seat and one plate for the same price, I'm actually saving the company money. No I think I'm being fined or penalized simply for not being in a relationship.

On another point one reason that people chose to remain single is that they belong to a sexual identity called A-sexuals that was identified by both the Kinsley and Johnson & Master reports. There's a debate as to who or what belongs to this group, but the general idea are those people who don't feel compelled to enter either a heterosexual or homosexual relationship.


Ah that is true, single rooms are always pricier too. I will go with you if you want, in a totally asexual way of course ;)

Not everyone is cut to be a parent, and as far as marriage only a select few can take it.



Everybody I know who got married since got divorced.  The one couple I thought would stay together 'till death due them part, I found out this week from a mutual friend, are now separated and splitting time with their son.

With those odds, I'm glad I didn't bother.
:(

Not everyone is cut to be a parent, and as far as marriage only a select few can take it.





Ain't that the truth!!!!!  All my life I was content with the decision to be single as long as I want, maybe get married, but NOT have kids.  I saw way too many natural childbirths on tv and said that's NOT for me!!!!  :o

I lived the carefree, "Carrie Bradshaw" single life til I was the ripe old age of 27.  Then got married and had Matthew.  Now I am divorced and have Matthew.  For never planning to have kids, I got the best one ever born and I love every minute of being a Mom.  The marriage was what was not meant to be!  :)

Not everyone who gets married gets divorced, but many do. We've been married almost 20 years. So far, so good.

That's awesome!!!  :) 

And true, there are still a few marriages that I see that have lasted a long time, it's just that marriage these days doesn't seem to be as serious a commitment as it was, say 30 or 40 years ago.  Today people look at it as a disposable situation.  I had a friend tell me "If it doesn't work, I'll just get a divorce."  Kind of like "Well, tomorrow I'll take out the garbage.".  I declined her request to be Maid of Honor.  She was surprised that I couldn't stand behind that philsosophy, but I wasn't surpised when she annulled 5 months later.  ::) If you don't have hope that it will work and don't plan to try, it won't.

I'm not against marriage at all, and I gave it more than a fair try, I just know I did what was best for my child and me by getting a divorce.  My parents have been together 46 years.  I love seeing couples that have been happy for years.  Both of my sets of Grandparents were married 60 years before passing away.

I also think I've done pretty well as a divorced Mom, you gotta do what ya gotta do.  Being a parent is the smartest thing I ever did!  :)

The last time we went to the beach there was this couple there and they were both in their 80's, in their swimsuits, holding hands.  I watched them for awhile-they walked way out into the water, swam some, then came back to the shore holding hands and walked on down the beach.  I wondered what kinds of ups and downs they may have had over their years together, but they really looked like they were still in love.  Too cute.

"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans. "
John Lennon


I have a magnet with this quote on my fridge.  I put it up there the day I found out I was expecting Matthew.  I still have it up and it makes me smile every time I see it.  Next time you think you have your life all figured out, look out.  Because you don't.  And it may all turn out nothing like you think it will.  :)

It seems like most of the married couples I know have stayed together, and there have been a few divorces, but more are still married and they seem happy and content. most have kids and there are quite a few that have been married for a long time and never had kids and so their friends children become like nieces and nephews to them. my good friend at work has a brother & sis-in-law that could not have their own kids, so they adopted 2 wonderful boys.


Not everyone who gets married gets divorced, but many do. We've been married almost 20 years. So far, so good.
way to go Frank.


as for me and Lady Di, we've been married a good long time. the first 7 years were the hardest, we almost quit...the last 7 the best. our 25th anniversary is coming up this month  8)  and I've plotted some fun plans to celebrate it.

Well put................Enough People don't" do what they gotta do" and stay in bad situations or share custody with someone who shouldn't be allowed to own a Dog...............I fought in Court a long time for Custody {My Ex fought Me only because She thought I'd want Child Support}....now My Daughter lives with Me.......(and instead of skipping School,hanging with the wrong crowd & barely passing...when with Her Mother} She's on the Honor Roll and doing great.


What an awesome Dad you are!!!  There should be more like you out there!!!  If your daughter doesn't know that now, trust me, she'll thank you later.

Thanks, that's a nice thing to say.
There's nothing quite like making one of Her favorite foods and having Her comment on how good it smells,and Her getting impatient to eat......
Like last night She asked Me "When are You going to make Your chili again?" So.........I guess I'll be making it this week.

What an awesome Dad you are!!!  There should be more like you out there!!!  If your daughter doesn't know that now, trust me, she'll thank you later.

My first husband and I tried to get pregnant for 4 years and finally succeeded. I then had my son 22 months later and my third child 6 years later.
I don't regret having any of them. My first husband and I divorced after 12 years. The only child we didn't plan was #3. He was with my second husband.

I always wanted children since I can remember, but don't question why other choose not to. It is a personal choice, no one has the right to make people feel guilty about whether to have or not have children, or get married either for that matter.

Marriage and child rearing are hard jobs and one can't just walk away when times get tough.

Monday is my 19th anniversary, and there have been some rough times along the way, but also more great times as well.

As for firearms everyone should have one, they are cheaper than divorce!!!!! http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/06/mgwhore2.gif

Although my wife and I have been married a long time, some couples we know got divorced and I think it's important that when couples go through a hard time, do NOT ignore them as if they were carrying Anthrax coz you don't know what to say. They need people. Just be there and listen.

So many times we've tried to help others by just listening, and talking when it was appropriate. Some couples have gone back together, some have not.

We also both have many single friends in their 40's who are VERY datable, but because of what they see around them, they just rather remain single and not even try to date others or even meet others. I can't say I blame them tho. But I just wish everyone would find love, at least once.

We also both have many single friends in their 40's who are VERY datable, but because of what they see around them, they just rather remain single and not even try to date others or even meet others. I can't say I blame them tho. But I just wish everyone would find love, at least once.


Disclaimer:  Don't know you, don't know them.

But as a permabachelor who might as well be 40, lemme put it this way.  Some of them probably have; they just don't care to repeat the experience, even if it was a good one.  I've experienced it, it's crazy stuff.  Still on good terms with a couple of 'em.  But having seen how badly it can work out, I'm not fool enough to play again.

I've had a few co-workers suggest that they're aware of a potential mating opportunity, and I invariably joke that there's a time and a place for everything, and that time and place is called "college". 

If they don't get it the first time, I give 'em the adult version of the joke:  In the long term, the only way to come out ahead in Vegas is to get lucky on your first couple of visits, and to walk past the casino on future visits, preferably on your way to the steakhouse, the Star Trek museum, the Fremont Street video-ceiling, the Atomic History museum, the Bellagio butterfly conservatory... 

Sometimes the best games in the arcade are the ones on free play. 

I don't regret my time at the casino, I was (and am) happier as a non-dating nerd than I ever was as a guy with a girlfriend.

I was (and am) happier as a non-dating nerd than I ever was as a guy with a girlfriend.


I hear you loud and clear, brother!
;)