No, we are not going to talk about the show, or the actors in the show.

That being said, I have recently started watching all of the episodes again, and they have made me question the questions that are asked in each.

Of course, not all of the episode questions can be answered with definite's, but there has to be some sort of answer to them, aside form the answer that the show gave.


So I will post questions, choose to answer whichever one's you want to. ;)

The question from the very first episode:

"Can women have sex like men?"

As in, can women sleep with men without emotions?

Episode 2:

"Exactly how powerful is beauty?"

As in, do some men purely date because of looks, and not because of the person?

Episode 3:

"Is there a secret cold war between marrieds and singles?"

As in, do marrieds view singles as lonely and desolate, outside of the normal world, without hope for love or marriage in the future?

The question from the very first episode:

"Can women have sex like men?"

As in, can women sleep with men without emotions?


Absolutely!







Episode 2:

"Exactly how powerful is beauty?"

As in, do some men purely date because of looks, and not because of the person?



hmmmm this one might require more thought... I think beauty is too powerful- too much emphasis on it. That's why I'm always happy when the average one wins.  Or when I see ugly people in love...it just warms my heart because there is someone for everyone....everyone but me  8-P




Episode 3:

"Is there a secret cold war between marrieds and singles?"

As in, do marrieds view singles as lonely and desolate, outside of the normal world, without hope for love or marriage in the future?




Hellz yeah.  Sorry to the married ladies... (and the mom's) but I can never get my married mommies or single mommies to do anything.
Its always I have to check with him - or what about the kids.

Back in the day there was no planning, no schedule. Someone called and said hey- lets drive 100 miles west
I'd say to do what"
They'd say WHO CARES
I'd say COOL.

And then we hit the road.  None of my friends can do that anymore... the only limitation I have is work...and when I can I always ditch work for play!

Episode 2:

"Exactly how powerful is beauty?"

As in, do some men purely date because of looks, and not because of the person?




hmmmm this one might require more thought... I think beauty is too powerful- too much emphasis on it. That's why I'm always happy when the average one wins.  Or when I see ugly people in love...it just warms my heart because there is someone for everyone....everyone but me  8-P




I get what you are saying Q, and I feel all warm and tingly when I see what some men would deem as a not so pretty person in love.

But the thing that gets me is that I still see it on a daily basis, a man passes a great woman by because she doesn't look like the super model, or she isn't a size zero. Unfortunately, I think that some men put too much emphasis on looks and not enough emphasis on the actual person.

I am thankful that Nasty chose to see me for me, because if he had of been going on looks alone, I honestly do not believe I would be where I am today.

Episode 3:

"Is there a secret cold war between marrieds and singles?"

As in, do marrieds view singles as lonely and desolate, outside of the normal world, without hope for love or marriage in the future?



Hellz yeah.  Sorry to the married ladies... (and the mom's) but I can never get my married mommies or single mommies to do anything.
Its always I have to check with him - or what about the kids.

Back in the day there was no planning, no schedule. Someone called and said hey- lets drive 100 miles west
I'd say to do what"
They'd say WHO CARES
I'd say COOL.

And then we hit the road.  None of my friends can do that anymore... the only limitation I have is work...and when I can I always ditch work for play!




I never really thought about this until I watched the show... again.

I personally would rather hang out with my single friends, because they have what seems like more to offer from the regular hum drum world of married life. Don't get me wrong, I love Nasty and I love being married, but there is just something that is more powerful to me about being single. About not having to worry about telling someone where you are going, what you will be doing, how long you will be gone.

But then again, I love hanging out with my married friends, because we have a different type of bond. Something that you just can't share with your single friends because they really just wouldn't get it.

I guess there is a 'cold war', although I don't view it as a war, I view it more as the difference that friendships need to have. :)

Episode 4:

"Are men in their 20's the new designer drug?"

Episode 6:

"How many of us are having sex with people we are ashamed to introduce to our friends?"

So, not necessarily right now, but has it happened in the past?

I get what you are saying Q, and I feel all warm and tingly when I see what some men would deem as a not so pretty person in love.

But the thing that gets me is that I still see it on a daily basis, a man passes a great woman by because she doesn't look like the super model, or she isn't a size zero. Unfortunately, I think that some men put too much emphasis on looks and not enough emphasis on the actual person.

I am thankful that Nasty chose to see me for me, because if he had of been going on looks alone, I honestly do not believe I would be where I am today.


I don't know what you're talking about... I've seen your pic and you're beautiful! Inside and out....tho I couldn't tell the inside part from the pic...I just know that from getting to know you.  :)

I don't know what you're talking about... I've seen your pic and you're beautiful! Inside and out....tho I couldn't tell the inside part from the pic...I just know that from getting to know you.  :)


Aw thank you - but it is all in how we view ourselves too isn't it?
I am a plain Jane - girl next door. Tomboy to the core. But that's who I am and I won't change it for anyone! ;)

But the thing that gets me is that I still see it on a daily basis, a man passes a great woman by because she doesn't look like the super model, or she isn't a size zero. Unfortunately, I think that some men put too much emphasis on looks and not enough emphasis on the actual person.



Q's right, you are beautiful and he is a smart man to have married you.  And I'm glad you won't change for anyone!!!!  We like you just the way you are.

But I would like to share an experience that kind of sums up what you are talking about when you say guys pass up those who don't look like models, etc.  Let me start by saying that I hung out with this guy because I was going thru a really bad time and he got me out of the house every Saturday night (play pool).  I never had then nor do I have now any feelings for him whatsoever, which is why what he said to me didn't bother me.

We met several years ago.  He is tall, athletic build, smart, an engineer (sporadically unemployed), not great looking but not troll either, though he has a high opinion of his looks, loves anything outdoors, and has been mountain climbing all over the world.  We hung out for quite a while when he lived in MI.  We had a conversation when he was bemoaning his single status (again).  He actually told me that I would be his idea of the perfect woman IF he could put me on a rack to stretch me (I'm 4-11) and I lost about 10-20 pounds (which I hope would have just been redistributed when I was stretched to 5-7).  He told me that I had a great sense of humor, could hold my end of a conversation, and was good company.  He liked that I enjoyed trying new things (I hadn't played pool or ridden a motorcycle before) and we had the same tastes in a few areas.  However, for all the time we spent together, his parents never knew about our friendship (not sure why).  When he met someone (usually on match), she was always the same type, exotic looking, tall, skinny, etc. but she always had some personality flaw and he would come back to hanging out with me because he enjoyed my company.

So I guess I have concrete evidence that there is at least ONE guy out there who does that.....  ::)

The question from the very first episode:

"Can women have sex like men?"

As in, can women sleep with men without emotions?
Sure, been there done that....

Episode 2:

"Exactly how powerful is beauty?"

As in, do some men purely date because of looks, and not because of the person?
Very powerful, sad but true.  It is not all the mens fault though, I watch some of my single girlfriends pass up some good guys because of physical attributes (although the bear you showed TAM ain't ever going to get anyone).  I am just thankful I was thinner and younger when I found my husband, now if I could just fit that again.. 


Episode 3:

"Is there a secret cold war between marrieds and singles?"

As in, do marrieds view singles as lonely and desolate, outside of the normal world, without hope for love or marriage in the future?
No cold war, atleast not in this house.  It just takes us a little bit more planning than it used to (unless you want to take 2 kids with on the road trip).  As long as my single friends don;t mind going with my kids; we can go (I do not need permission from my husband).  Now if I am to go on my own, I of course have to make provisions for the kids (or make sure the husband will be home). 

To that note, I do have married friends that need permission from their significant other on everything.  I can not believe some of the trust issues that go on in some marriages.  It is not an issue with ours, he can do his thing, I can do my thing, and we can do things together.

It is not an issue with ours, he can do his thing, I can do my thing, and we can do things together.


That's how it should be.  When I dated Kevin, we spent weekends together and he took both Micah and I out to dinner on Friday nights.  He would also come over on Monday nights to watch tv.  He still did stuff on his own (like golf) and I did stuff on my own (ok, usually with Micah).  I remember the one time he asked me to go to the golf course with him.  He knew I didn't play, but he was so proud of how he was playing that summer, he wanted me to come ride around in the cart.  When it is just him, he walks, but he was kind enough to get a cart this time around.  I'm sorry to say it was the worst golf he played all summer and the last time he asked me to go with him. ;D

I hope that someday I will have the kind of marriage where we have individual interests as well as "couple" (I also want a weekly date night) :)

Q's right, you are beautiful and he is a smart man to have married you.  And I'm glad you won't change for anyone!!!!  We like you just the way you are.

But I would like to share an experience that kind of sums up what you are talking about when you say guys pass up those who don't look like models, etc.  Let me start by saying that I hung out with this guy because I was going thru a really bad time and he got me out of the house every Saturday night (play pool).  I never had then nor do I have now any feelings for him whatsoever, which is why what he said to me didn't bother me.

We met several years ago.  He is tall, athletic build, smart, an engineer (sporadically unemployed), not great looking but not troll either, though he has a high opinion of his looks, loves anything outdoors, and has been mountain climbing all over the world.  We hung out for quite a while when he lived in MI.  We had a conversation when he was bemoaning his single status (again).  He actually told me that I would be his idea of the perfect woman IF he could put me on a rack to stretch me (I'm 4-11) and I lost about 10-20 pounds (which I hope would have just been redistributed when I was stretched to 5-7).  He told me that I had a great sense of humor, could hold my end of a conversation, and was good company.  He liked that I enjoyed trying new things (I hadn't played pool or ridden a motorcycle before) and we had the same tastes in a few areas.  However, for all the time we spent together, his parents never knew about our friendship (not sure why).  When he met someone (usually on match), she was always the same type, exotic looking, tall, skinny, etc. but she always had some personality flaw and he would come back to hanging out with me because he enjoyed my company.

So I guess I have concrete evidence that there is at least ONE guy out there who does that.....  ::)


Thank you as well Amy!

And you know - I have a best friend who sounds just like your friend. He always ends up with the wrong woman though. If they could see past the outer shell, they will realize so much more. 8)

Sure, been there done that....Very powerful, sad but true.  It is not all the mens fault though, I watch some of my single girlfriends pass up some good guys because of physical attributes (although the bear you showed TAM ain't ever going to get anyone).  I am just thankful I was thinner and younger when I found my husband, now if I could just fit that again.. 
No cold war, atleast not in this house.  It just takes us a little bit more planning than it used to (unless you want to take 2 kids with on the road trip).  As long as my single friends don;t mind going with my kids; we can go (I do not need permission from my husband).  Now if I am to go on my own, I of course have to make provisions for the kids (or make sure the husband will be home). 

To that note, I do have married friends that need permission from their significant other on everything.  I can not believe some of the trust issues that go on in some marriages.  It is not an issue with ours, he can do his thing, I can do my thing, and we can do things together.


That bear is rather disturbing, isn't he? 8-P

I'm with you on being able to do things apart as well as together. Nasty loves working out at the gym and playing basketball and watching sports. I don't mind watching sports, but basketball and the gym are not my forte. So, he goes and enjoys those things, and I enjoy my wii fit, my crochet, my jigsaw puzzles. There is hardly any dtrife over things we do, because ultimately, we always come back to each other. I know where he sleeps at night, and he knows the same. ;)

That bear is rather disturbing, isn't he? 8-P

I'm with you on being able to do things apart as well as together. Nasty loves working out at the gym and playing basketball and watching sports. I don't mind watching sports, but basketball and the gym are not my forte. So, he goes and enjoys those things, and I enjoy my wii fit, my crochet, my jigsaw puzzles. There is hardly any dtrife over things we do, because ultimately, we always come back to each other. I know where he sleeps at night, and he knows the same. ;)
And that is how a good marriage should be!!!

I ask a friend to go to eat or shopping, her husband asks 20 questions and eventually comes up with some lame excuse why he has to call on the cell phone 20 times while we are out...  It drives me crazy, I can not see how anyone can be married and not "trust" their spouse.  The anxiety of it all :-[

I also have another friend who will not let her husband go out with "the boys" or anywhere without her, there has been plenty of times she has been the only wife at the bar, or "event".  Personally I think she likes being the center of male attention ::)  But she will go bullistic if the boys are going to a strip club or playing poker without her.  "She wants to make sure that her man keeps his hands to himself" 

I am grateful that I trust my husband and know that he his coming home to me.  He can window shop all he wants, but the goods are here at home ;D

Thank you as well Amy!

And you know - I have a best friend who sounds just like your friend. He always ends up with the wrong woman though. If they could see past the outer shell, they will realize so much more. 8)



Maybe he will eventually, but make no mistake, I have no interest in him romantically...never have, never will.   ;D  

That bear is rather disturbing, isn't he? 8-P

I'm with you on being able to do things apart as well as together. Nasty loves working out at the gym and playing basketball and watching sports. I don't mind watching sports, but basketball and the gym are not my forte. So, he goes and enjoys those things, and I enjoy my wii fit, my crochet, my jigsaw puzzles. There is hardly any dtrife over things we do, because ultimately, we always come back to each other. I know where he sleeps at night, and he knows the same. ;)


Sounds like a good match.  Does he have a brother? ;)

all fascinating stories.... thanks for sharing  :)





I ask a friend to go to eat or shopping, her husband asks 20 questions and eventually comes up with some lame excuse why he has to call on the cell phone 20 times while we are out...  It drives me crazy, I can not see how anyone can be married and not "trust" their spouse.  The anxiety of it all :-[





okay I really hate this about people.... I mean I know that cheating happens but I don't understand pledging your undying love to someone but not giving them your trust.

I have a friend who was a student at UCSB and we worked together. We became really good friends. I love him like a brother tho and could not even imagine hooking up with him. His girlfriend lived in Fresno and I guess all his stories were TQ and I went to dinner, TQ and I saw a movie, TQ and I...well you get the point.

She was terribly jealous of the time we spent together...no matter how much he tried to convince her otherwise... I mean- if he were cheating on her with me would he really be honest about the amount of time we spent together?  ::)


Anyway- she finally came to visit after about 4 months of TQ and I stories... and once she saw me she actually breathed a sigh of relief... guess I should be offended huh?

;D

SATC is not there to explore questions about human sexuality, it's there to sell sh*t.  Nothing more.  Anybody treating this program like it's some kind of liberation for women, for men, or for anybody or anything does not understand what television is:  A barrel with no bottom.

Come on.  Women have been hoodwinked by TV execs once again.  There is no socially redeeming message of SATC.  They're like pornographers such as Annie Sprinkle and Nina Hartley.  It's the same product as before, except it's not wrapped in a brown paper bag but in some bogus revolutionary statement, such as "sex positive feminism."

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/jerk.gif

SATC is not there to explore questions about human sexuality, it's there to sell sh*t.  Nothing more.  Anybody treating this program like it's some kind of liberation for women, for men, or for anybody or anything does not understand what television is:  A barrel with no bottom.

Come on.  Women have been hoodwinked by TV execs once again.  There is no socially redeeming message of SATC.  They're like pornographers such as Annie Sprinkle and Nina Hartley.  It's the same product as before, except it's not wrapped in a brown paper bag but in some bogus revolutionary statement, such as "sex positive feminism."

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/jerk.gif


Hey Max, did you read the first post? :D

Hey Max, did you read the first post? :D


Yes.  And....
???

Yes.  And....
???


Oh, I thought you hadn't read it because this thread isn't really dealing with the show itself, but with questions from it.  Not sure how that format works since I'd rather poke out my eyeballs than watch it, but some of the questions are thought provoking.

Oh, I thought you hadn't read it because this thread isn't really dealing with the show itself, but with questions from it.  Not sure how that format works since I'd rather poke out my eyeballs than watch it, but some of the questions are thought provoking.


Yes, and I am saying asking asking questions frm SATC is like drinking water drawn from a poisoned well. 

Consequently, I have nothing further to say on this thread.

Yes, and I am saying asking asking questions frm SATC is like drinking water drawn from a poisoned well. 

Consequently, I have nothing further to say on this thread.


So why say anything in the first place?

SATC is not there to explore questions about human sexuality, it's there to sell sh*t.  Nothing more.  Anybody treating this program like it's some kind of liberation for women, for men, or for anybody or anything does not understand what television is:  A barrel with no bottom.

Come on.  Women have been hoodwinked by TV execs once again.  There is no socially redeeming message of SATC.  They're like pornographers such as Annie Sprinkle and Nina Hartley.  It's the same product as before, except it's not wrapped in a brown paper bag but in some bogus revolutionary statement, such as "sex positive feminism."

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/jerk.gif


Thanks Max. Erm... but we aren't viewing the questions on the show as being "the end all that meets all", I personally am asking the same questions of my fellow posters, in regards to their personal experiences. Furthermore, these questions haven't only ever been asked on the show, I can assure you, we have asked ourselves these questions long before the beginning and end of this series.

And I don't believe we have been hoodwinked into anything at all by tv execs. Women explore these questions all the time, whether it is when they are having coffee or drinks with their girlfriends, or whether they are in session with their shrinks. As for "revolutionary statement",  not all women are about feminism.  ::)


Yes, and I am saying asking asking questions frm SATC is like drinking water drawn from a poisoned well. 

Consequently, I have nothing further to say on this thread.


Well, it is a good thing you chimed in to let us know that we are stupid. Funny thing is, when I read your first post I had a 'WTF is Max drinking' moment.

-------------------------------------------------------

So this leads me to question:

"Why do some men think that anything and everything women do is about feminism? And why do they feel the need to make their opinion the only opinion that matters? In a now female dominant society, do men think that in order to be seen and heard, they must make jackasses out of themselves?"

And yes, that is my question - and not from the Poisoned Well. :P

The question from the very first episode:

"Can women have sex like men?"

As in, can women sleep with men without emotions?



Yes..I think it is quite possible...but for a lot of women, there is some degree of attachment to the person they are having sex with. I suppose it depends on the situation..but I know personally, I couldn't just do that and not feel attached in some way or another.

Episode 2:

"Exactly how powerful is beauty?"

As in, do some men purely date because of looks, and not because of the person?



Yes...as crappy as it is...beauty is very important to a LOT of people. Most people are really shallow and let's face it...you get judged on how you look, to a certain extent. Yes, there are men (and women) who truly look at the inside of a person and love them for their inner beauty...but there are still WAY too many that judge people by their outer appearance.

Episode 2:

"Exactly how powerful is beauty?"

As in, do some men purely date because of looks, and not because of the person?



This question intrigued me. In terms of physical beauty, I have never thought of myself as beautiful. In fact, I think of myself as pretty much a Plain Jane (though, when I do dress to the nines... ;D ;D ). But, I do have something that men seem to pick up on. Pheromones? I don't know. Sometimes, without realizing it, I would send out signals to guys-and it isn't intentional. I know I still send out those signals but I try to make it VERY clear that I am taken that no other guy will ever have a chance. I think Carlos senses that other guys pick up on it, too. For instance, yesterday I was talking to Carlos about one consolation with a doc that neither one of us liked. This was one of Carlos' docs and the consolation was for him. Yet, the doc keep staring at me most of the time. I wanted to tell him, "Um, I'm not the patient here. You are talking to the wrong person." I mentioned to Carlos how it may me uncomfortable. We had switch docs. Yesterday, sitting in the new doc's office, we seem to encounter the SAME thing. His doc was looking at me a lot-not as much as the other guy but enough to make me a bit self-conscience about it.



Cat  

-------------------------------------------------------

So this leads me to question:

"Why do some men think that anything and everything women do is about feminism? And why do they feel the need to make their opinion the only opinion that matters? In a now female dominant society, do men think that in order to be seen and heard, they must make jackasses out of themselves?"

And yes, that is my question - and not from the Poisoned Well. :P


Men do not understand the fact that all women do not want to be subservient and "listen to" "men."  Ever since women have grown their own minds, man still does not want to believe that women are free and independent thinkers, and can choose their will of their own accord. So man has created the women's  "movement" (or another cult like fantasy) that is the reasoning that all of the female persuasion have had their mind controlled and forced into joining (jumping up on the bandwagon).  Not that women have just grown into their own.  Men then also have a very serious ego problem (it can be wounded very easily), and they want to be the center of attention no matter how.  Since us women no longer regard men as our sole means of existence, we have not been giving them the attention they feel they need.  So men will revert back to their 2 year old mines, and jump up and down and start crying and throwing a tantrum to get the desired attention.  Mom always gave them attention when they did this (good or bad) and we are supposed to too.  WHICH IS WHY MY FAVORITE SAYING TO MY HUSBAND IS "I AM NOT YOUR MOM!!!" ;D ;D ;D ;D

SATC is not there to explore questions about human sexuality, it's there to sell sh*t.  Nothing more.  Anybody treating this program like it's some kind of liberation for women, for men, or for anybody or anything does not understand what television is:  A barrel with no bottom.

Come on.  Women have been hoodwinked by TV execs once again.  There is no socially redeeming message of SATC.  They're like pornographers such as Annie Sprinkle and Nina Hartley.  It's the same product as before, except it's not wrapped in a brown paper bag but in some bogus revolutionary statement, such as "sex positive feminism."

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/jerk.gif



You know a lot of the questions raised are very real issues for women... what are you afraid you might learn something real about us?

-------------------------------------------------------

So this leads me to question:

"Why do some men think that anything and everything women do is about feminism? And why do they feel the need to make their opinion the only opinion that matters? In a now female dominant society, do men think that in order to be seen and heard, they must make jackasses out of themselves?"

And yes, that is my question - and not from the Poisoned Well. :P






What sami said.... I couldn't have said better my friend!

What sami said.... I couldn't have said better my friend!


Had to modify, I read the post - could barely understand what I said.  Tried to clarify.  ;D

Had to modify, I read the post - could barely understand what I said.  Tried to clarify.  ;D


funny I totally understood it... wonder what that means?  ;D

is this true of satc more than it's true of other t.v. shows that have ad sponsors?

No, it's about the same.  The cliche is "sex sells" and it's always shown to be true. 

Episode 6:

"How many of us are having sex with people we are ashamed to introduce to our friends?"

So, not necessarily right now, but has it happened in the past?


I've only ever had sex with one person and I'm not ashamed to introduce her to friends.  I don't see the point of having sex with someone that I am completely incompatible with nor would I want associated with my friends...y'dig?

But that's just me :D

I've only ever had sex with one person and I'm not ashamed to introduce her to friends.



What did Jess have to say about that  :P

What did Jess have to say about that  :P


???

What did Jess have to say about that  :P




I think she likes my friends :D

I think she likes my friends :D


;D




???



see he got it  :P

Bottle of Caba Moch down - I am a little slow :-[  But enjoying it ;D

is this true of satc more than it's true of other t.v. shows that have ad sponsors?


SATC originally aired on HBO and didn't have any ad sponsors.  Not that it really matters, but since you asked...

I freakin' love the show.  It's hilarious, and it's fun, and yes, it does ask some great questions.  The version on TBS is crap - you want to watch the real version with all the swearing and sex talk.  That's how real women talk - at least my friends anyway.  The heart of the show is the friendship between the women.  That's what always kept me coming back for more.  All of the clothes and shoes and men were just for fun.  I don't think anyone that watched the show actually believed that a single writer in New York could have afforded to buy the number of Manolo's that Carried did.  And I don't think many real women would be caught dead in half the outfits she wore.  It was just fun to fantasize about having her wardrobe, her lovers, and her life.  And don't even get me started on Samantha!

"Can women have sex like men?"
Yes we can!

"Exactly how powerful is beauty?"
Beauty opens a lot of doors but close the really important ones. When we focus too much on how good we look and use that as a free pass we don't develop our intelect and mentally die. Plus one day beauty is just gone, and then they're left with nothing. Plus there's not one definition of beauty, it's all in the eye of the beholder and sometimes the beholder is blind, thank god :D

"Is there a secret cold war between marrieds and singles?"
Yes,yes,yes!
If you are a woman over 30 and unmarried you are a loser 'cause you couldn't find a husband yet. Or you are a shrew who just thinks about your career and money. Married people want everyone to be married 'cause they want everyone to be as miserable as they are. Oh and don't even start about the kiddies ::)

"Are men in their 20's the new designer drug?"
I wouldn't know, i never been with anyone younger than me.

"How many of us are having sex with people we are ashamed to introduce to our friends?"
It happens :-[

So I kinda purposely avoided the questions, but now I shall offer my take...


"Can women have sex like men?"
Yes we can!


I totally agree.  Sometimes I think men can't have sex like men though.  I have had men get totally attached and needy afterward - the stereotypical woman thing, while I was like, "thanks, see ya" - the stereotypical man thing.    ;D


"Is there a secret cold war between marrieds and singles?"
Yes,yes,yes!

If you are a woman over 30 and unmarried you are a loser 'cause you couldn't find a husband yet. Or you are a shrew who just thinks about your career and money. Married people want everyone to be married 'cause they want everyone to be as miserable as they are. Oh and don't even start about the kiddies ::)


While I completely agree that society acts in the above way, I have to say that I am the complete opposite.  I TREASURE my single friends, and sometimes live vicariously through them.  Don't get me wrong, I adore my husband, and wouldn't change a thing about my marital status, but I think it's important for married people to have single friends and vice versa.  But like so many others have said on this thread, it's all about trust.  If you can't trust your spouse, forget it.  My husband and I are all about having separate time.  We totally encourage each other to hang out with friends.  I think it's so important to have your own life and interests.  How boring would it be if you didn't?  We have a pretty good mix of friends, both married and single.  I hope they don't look at us as the lame married people...

"Can women have sex like men?"

Yes we can!


Now that's change we can believe in.

Sorry, but that was like singing "Shave and a haircut" in front of Roger Rabbit.

Obligatory serious commentary:  Back when I cared about sex, yeah, they could.  Perversely enough, I'm still friends (-without-benefits ) with a couple of 'em some 10-20 years later.  They're now happily (more or less) married-with-children, I'm now happily single-with-computers.  I'm sure there was an SATC episode about perpetual bachelors, guys who refuse to grow up, and what-now.  Yeah, I'm one of them.  At first by accident, but as I've watched other people's lives unfold, more by choice.

Now that's change we can believe in.

Sorry, but that was like singing "Shave and a haircut" in front of Roger Rabbit.

Obligatory serious commentary:  Back when I cared about sex, yeah, they could.  Perversely enough, I'm still friends (-without-benefits ) with a couple of 'em some 10-20 years later.  They're now happily (more or less) married-with-children, I'm now happily single-with-computers.  I'm sure there was an SATC episode about perpetual bachelors, guys who refuse to grow up, and what-now.  Yeah, I'm one of them.  At first by accident, but as I've watched other people's lives unfold, more by choice.
\

I've watched my generation get married and divorced--friends and family alike. 

The general attitude seemed to be "Max isn't getting married because he still has a lot of growing up to do."  Maybe so.  As I enter my fifth decade of life, I have no wife; I have no progeny.  On the other hand, I have no ex-wife, I have no custody battles, I have no neurotic children who resent the f**k out of me, and what's most, I have played no role in perpetuating this grievously unhappy family line. 

There's a difference between aging and growing up.  I watched both my sisters' marriages dissolve in the past five years.  The veneer of matrimony stripped from their lives, I could see they aged, but they didn't grow up. 

How do you grow up when your parents didn't grow up themselves?  What do you do when you learned none of the survival skills a father passes to a son?  Hell if I knew.  With a broken compass and a crippled horse, I was sent out to grow up.  I had no spouse in whom to bury my dysfunction.  I'm anything but tough.   I'm no John Wayne.  I would have given anything to have a woman to be the mother I never had and to clear up the mess when I f**ked up.   Life was wretched, full of failure, humiliation, and loneliness.  I was sure I wouldn't make it to my 25th birthday, then my 30th, now my 40th is imminent....and at least I've killed old Leviathan!  Now I am washed up on the beach gasping for air and chased by creditors and still barely able to eke out a living.  I can look at the gray streaks appearing in in my sideburns and say that may be so, but I've still got some growing up to do...and I'm still a bachelor and a bachelor I can remain, no problem.

Perhaps there are bachelors who *refuse* to grow up.  Often they are bachelors who *don't know how* to grow up.  Then there are the married couples with careers, kids, mortgages, and retirement plans invested.  Society issues them the seal of "grown up," but then they watch SATC and believe it has meaningful questions for married women, and they go to marriage counselors and bellyache about "not getting my needs met," and as the "marriage" dissipates in a miasma of infidelity, name-calling, blame, and "you don't know me's," they hit post-marriage life as the angry adolescent kids they buried from 20 years ago, but they now inhabiting middle-aged, perimenopausal, incipient arthritic, beer-gutted, hair-colored, baggy-eyed bodies.  Now they carry more baggage than the LAX luggage carousels. 

I wonder what they want with me?  After all, I didn't get the house in the suburbs with 2.5 kids, the two-car garage, the 401K plans, and the upper management positions.  I work jobs they would have been embarrassed about 15 years ago!  I've gotta tell 'em, it's not that you're showing your age, that's natural, and I don't have a tap on the fountain of youth myself.  It's just that....I have no interest in spending minute one with your sulky kids...I couldn't care less about your ungrateful ex who abandoned you for a "trophy wife" and he doesn't pay child support on time, and what about Jason's orthodontics and Jenna's tuition.  Even if I wanted to, I couldn't buy you a Caribbean vacation; and I'm certainly not that Drop Dead Fred character from Cosmo who would have you pay for our Caribbean vacation; and even if I could afford the time to go to the Caribbean, I wouldn't got with your whiny disposition and your four fussing kids you believed you had to birth into this world in order to be a complete woman.  Go find hubby's friend, the one you thought was so cute, his perfect wife dumped him, maybe you can do a Brady Bunch with his kids!  Have fun!  Tomorrow you'll be old, old, old and I won't have to deal with you then either!

--The bachelor with the advantage

Yes, and I am saying asking asking questions frm SATC is like drinking water drawn from a poisoned well. 

Consequently, I have nothing further to say on this thread.
^ ??? ??? ???

\

I've watched my generation get married and divorced--friends and family alike. 

The general attitude seemed to be "Max isn't getting married because he still has a lot of growing up to do."  Maybe so.  As I enter my fifth decade of life, I have no wife; I have no progeny.  On the other hand, I have no ex-wife, I have no custody battles, I have no neurotic children who resent the f**k out of me, and what's most, I have played no role in perpetuating this grievously unhappy family line. 

There's a difference between aging and growing up.  I watched both my sisters' marriages dissolve in the past five years.  The veneer of matrimony stripped from their lives, I could see they aged, but they didn't grow up. 

How do you grow up when your parents didn't grow up themselves?  What do you do when you learned none of the survival skills a father passes to a son?  Hell if I knew.  With a broken compass and a crippled horse, I was sent out to grow up.  I had no spouse in whom to bury my dysfunction.  I'm anything but tough.   I'm no John Wayne.  I would have given anything to have a woman to be the mother I never had and to clear up the mess when I f**ked up.   Life was wretched, full of failure, humiliation, and loneliness.  I was sure I wouldn't make it to my 25th birthday, then my 30th, now my 40th is imminent....and at least I've killed old Leviathan!  Now I am washed up on the beach gasping for air and chased by creditors and still barely able to eke out a living.  I can look at the gray streaks appearing in in my sideburns and say that may be so, but I've still got some growing up to do...and I'm still a bachelor and a bachelor I can remain, no problem.

Perhaps there are bachelors who *refuse* to grow up.  Often they are bachelors who *don't know how* to grow up.  Then there are the married couples with careers, kids, mortgages, and retirement plans invested.  Society issues them the seal of "grown up," but then they watch SATC and believe it has meaningful questions for married women, and they go to marriage counselors and bellyache about "not getting my needs met," and as the "marriage" dissipates in a miasma of infidelity, name-calling, blame, and "you don't know me's," they hit post-marriage life as the angry adolescent kids they buried from 20 years ago, but they now inhabiting middle-aged, perimenopausal, incipient arthritic, beer-gutted, hair-colored, baggy-eyed bodies.  Now they carry more baggage than the LAX luggage carousels. 

I wonder what they want with me?  After all, I didn't get the house in the suburbs with 2.5 kids, the two-car garage, the 401K plans, and the upper management positions.  I work jobs they would have been embarrassed about 15 years ago!  I've gotta tell 'em, it's not that you're showing your age, that's natural, and I don't have a tap on the fountain of youth myself.  It's just that....I have no interest in spending minute one with your sulky kids...I couldn't care less about your ungrateful ex who abandoned you for a "trophy wife" and he doesn't pay child support on time, and what about Jason's orthodontics and Jenna's tuition.  Even if I wanted to, I couldn't buy you a Caribbean vacation; and I'm certainly not that Drop Dead Fred character from Cosmo who would have you pay for our Caribbean vacation; and even if I could afford the time to go to the Caribbean, I wouldn't got with your whiny disposition and your four fussing kids you believed you had to birth into this world in order to be a complete woman.  Go find hubby's friend, the one you thought was so cute, his perfect wife dumped him, maybe you can do a Brady Bunch with his kids!  Have fun!  Tomorrow you'll be old, old, old and I won't have to deal with you then either!

--The bachelor with the advantage


My hell.

I can't imagine having your outlook on life, Max.  I am married with a house in the suburbs, and I'm actually gulp] happy.  Is my life perfect?  Of course not.  But it's certainly not a "miasma of infidelity, name-calling, blame, and "you don't know me's," they hit post-marriage life as the angry adolescent kids they buried from 20 years ago, but they now inhabiting middle-aged, perimenopausal, incipient arthritic, beer-gutted, hair-colored, baggy-eyed bodies."

Sorry to disappoint you.  Some marriages are full of love, laughter, talking, friendship, happiness, and having one amazing person that knows every single asinine thing about you and loves you anyway.  I'm one of the lucky and damn grateful people that has one of those, and I'll be damned if I'll let you or anyone else act like my life and my love is some sort of facade.

I like to think that life is short.  And I am determined to enjoy it while it lasts.  And when I watch TV, or God forbid, a romantic comedy, I do it for fun.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Maybe you need to chill the f*ck out and stop analysing every single thing into the ground.  It gets incredibly old.

\

I've watched my generation get married and divorced--friends and family alike. 

The general attitude seemed to be "Max isn't getting married because he still has a lot of growing up to do."  Maybe so.  As I enter my fifth decade of life, I have no wife; I have no progeny.  On the other hand, I have no ex-wife, I have no custody battles, I have no neurotic children who resent the f**k out of me, and what's most, I have played no role in perpetuating this grievously unhappy family line. 

There's a difference between aging and growing up.  I watched both my sisters' marriages dissolve in the past five years.  The veneer of matrimony stripped from their lives, I could see they aged, but they didn't grow up. 

How do you grow up when your parents didn't grow up themselves?  What do you do when you learned none of the survival skills a father passes to a son?  Hell if I knew.  With a broken compass and a crippled horse, I was sent out to grow up.  I had no spouse in whom to bury my dysfunction.  I'm anything but tough.   I'm no John Wayne.  I would have given anything to have a woman to be the mother I never had and to clear up the mess when I f**ked up.   Life was wretched, full of failure, humiliation, and loneliness.  I was sure I wouldn't make it to my 25th birthday, then my 30th, now my 40th is imminent....and at least I've killed old Leviathan!  Now I am washed up on the beach gasping for air and chased by creditors and still barely able to eke out a living.  I can look at the gray streaks appearing in in my sideburns and say that may be so, but I've still got some growing up to do...and I'm still a bachelor and a bachelor I can remain, no problem.


You know Max, I have always been willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but after this little bit, I am 100% positive that you in fact still have some growing up to do. At almost 40, you are still blaming your absent parents for where you are in life? My son is 16 and blames my husband and I all the time - that is part of the territory with teenagers.... but you aren't a teenager so why still blame them? You are refusing to be accountable for yourself, placing blame everywhere but where it should be placed.


Perhaps there are bachelors who *refuse* to grow up.  Often they are bachelors who *don't know how* to grow up.  Then there are the married couples with careers, kids, mortgages, and retirement plans invested.  Society issues them the seal of "grown up," but then they watch SATC and believe it has meaningful questions for married women, and they go to marriage counselors and bellyache about "not getting my needs met," and as the "marriage" dissipates in a miasma of infidelity, name-calling, blame, and "you don't know me's," they hit post-marriage life as the angry adolescent kids they buried from 20 years ago, but they now inhabiting middle-aged, perimenopausal, incipient arthritic, beer-gutted, hair-colored, baggy-eyed bodies.  Now they carry more baggage than the LAX luggage carousels. 

Obviously, there are some who believe the questions in the show are meaningful, but what I started here was a discussion among real people. I wasn't asking "OMG why isn't my husband caring and attentive like Smith Jared on SATC? I am going to leave my husband and go look for my love in the City, because Carrie said it's there - so it has to be right?"  ::)

I wonder what they want with me?  After all, I didn't get the house in the suburbs with 2.5 kids, the two-car garage, the 401K plans, and the upper management positions.  I work jobs they would have been embarrassed about 15 years ago!  I've gotta tell 'em, it's not that you're showing your age, that's natural, and I don't have a tap on the fountain of youth myself.  It's just that....I have no interest in spending minute one with your sulky kids...I couldn't care less about your ungrateful ex who abandoned you for a "trophy wife" and he doesn't pay child support on time, and what about Jason's orthodontics and Jenna's tuition.  Even if I wanted to, I couldn't buy you a Caribbean vacation; and I'm certainly not that Drop Dead Fred character from Cosmo who would have you pay for our Caribbean vacation; and even if I could afford the time to go to the Caribbean, I wouldn't got with your whiny disposition and your four fussing kids you believed you had to birth into this world in order to be a complete woman.  Go find hubby's friend, the one you thought was so cute, his perfect wife dumped him, maybe you can do a Brady Bunch with his kids!  Have fun!  Tomorrow you'll be old, old, old and I won't have to deal with you then either!

--The bachelor with the advantage


I have to wonder the same question. The attitude you possess over the whole relationship thing, actually holds a lot of resentment. Not all women are looking for the rich guy who can provide everything and anything to them. Believe it or not, there are real people out there just looking for someone they can connect with, not get a free ride from. If you have been spurned in the past, then I apologize Max. But because of what one or a few women have done or reacted to you, is not a good excuse to act this way towards all women now. The women here are not the ones who burned you, hurt you, left you - so please don't try and make them feel inferior because of their ideals. We are well aware that SATC is a tv show, make believe, but the questions aren't. So please don't discount our views and feelings. I would never discount yours, and to expect the same thing in return is human nature.

^ ??? ??? ???




I'll second that! ???


My hell.

I can't imagine having your outlook on life, Max.  I am married with a house in the suburbs, and I'm actually gulp] happy.  Is my life perfect?  Of course not.  But it's certainly not a "miasma of infidelity, name-calling, blame, and "you don't know me's," they hit post-marriage life as the angry adolescent kids they buried from 20 years ago, but they now inhabiting middle-aged, perimenopausal, incipient arthritic, beer-gutted, hair-colored, baggy-eyed bodies."

Sorry to disappoint you.  Some marriages are full of love, laughter, talking, friendship, happiness, and having one amazing person that knows every single asinine thing about you and loves you anyway.  I'm one of the lucky and damn grateful people that has one of those, and I'll be damned if I'll let you or anyone else act like my life and my love is some sort of facade.

I like to think that life is short.  And I am determined to enjoy it while it lasts.  And when I watch TV, or God forbid, a romantic comedy, I do it for fun.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Maybe you need to chill the f*ck out and stop analysing every single thing into the ground.  It gets incredibly old.


And this too, except I don't have a house in the 'burbs, but a condo in the city.

You know Max, Foo Bar got his point across about being a happy bachelor without resorting to generalizing (I thought you were better than that....guess not) about a whole group of people.

I'd also like to take issue with line about having children, "...you believed you had to birth into this world in order to be a complete woman."  No, I didn't have to have Jason to be a "complete woman", because I could have easily gotten rid of him and still been a "complete woman".  It was mine and Rice's choice to have him, and that is something I do not regret in the least.  It has been a joy over the past four years to raise an intelligent and inquisitive child, even when he is being a dork.  As a matter of fact, we're thinking of having another in a couple of years, and if that makes me a part of what you think is  "horrible suburban life", so be it.

No Max, I'm not angry at you.  I feel sorry for you, though, and not because you're a bachelor.  Being that bitter about life and other people's lives and interests can't be good for your health.

Season 1, Episode 9

"In a city of great expectations, is it time to settle for what you can get?

Season 1, episode 10:

"Is motherhood a cult?"

Season 1, Episode 9

"In a city of great expectations, is it time to settle for what you can get?


You never settle really, I don't think.  But if something comes your way and feels right and you take it, I don't think that's settling either, it's just you have reached your comfort zone.  And that's okay!

Are we talking about sex, or about material possessions?  Either way I think my simplistic statements apply.

Season 1, episode 11:

"How often is normal?"

~ as in, when it comes to sex and a relationship, how often is normal?

Season 1, episode 11:

"How often is normal?"

~ as in, when it comes to sex and a relationship, how often is normal?


I don't think there's any such thing as normal.  I think you just kinda go through phases.  At least I do.  There are times when I just can't be bothered, and other times where I can't get enough.  I think when you worry too much about it, it becomes a problem.

Season 1, Episode 9

"In a city of great expectations, is it time to settle for what you can get?


That's the catch, those great expectations are not really our own. We have to learn to find what makes us happy, screw others expectations.
Walt Whitman once said: "Reexamine all that you have been told in school,or in church or in any book.Dismiss whatever insults your soul" That should be our motto always.


Season 1, episode 11:

"How often is normal?"

~ as in, when it comes to sex and a relationship, how often is normal?


How often you both want it. And when sex is the issue, normal is a no word ;)

Season 1, episode 11:

"How often is normal?"

~ as in, when it comes to sex and a relationship, how often is normal?



Um...I don't think I should answer that question.  ;) :D ;D ;D ;D



Cat

Um...I don't think I should answer that question.  ;) :D ;D ;D ;D



Cat


The Bad Touch -Bloodhound Gang

Ha-Ha! Well now, we call this the act of mating
But there are several other very important differences
Between human beings and animals that you should know about

I'd appreciate your input

Sweat baby sweat baby sex is a Texas drought
Me and you do the kind of stuff that only Prince would sing about
So put your hands down my pants and I'll bet you'll feel nuts
Yes I'm Siskel, yes I'm Ebert and you're getting two thumbs up
You've had enough of two-hand touch you want it rough you're out of bounds
I want you smothered want you covered like my Waffle House hashbrowns
Come quicker than FedEx never reach an apex just like Coca-Cola stock you are inclined
To make me rise an hour early just like Daylight Savings Time

Do it now
You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Do it again now
You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Gettin' horny now

Love the kind you clean up with a mop and bucket
Like the lost catacombs of Egypt only God knows where we stuck it
Hieroglyphics? Let me be Pacific I wanna be down in your South Seas
But I got this notion that the motion of your ocean means "Small Craft Advisory"
So if I capsize on your thighs high tide, B-5 you sunk my battleship
Please turn me on I'm Mister Coffee with an automatic drip
So show me yours I'll show you mine "Tool Time" you'll Lovett just like Lyle
And then we'll do it doggy style so we can both watch "X-Files"

Do it now
You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Do it again now
You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Gettin' horny now

You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Do it again now
You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Do it now
You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Do it again now
You and me baby ain't nothin' but mammals
So let's do it like they do on the Discovery Channel
Gettin' horny now

;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTW8oUV8Aq0

Alright, alright, alright, let's just take a deeeeeep breath now!

See, you feel better already.

I was just riffing on some dark humor last night while listening to Soft Cell. 

I mean, did you guys really think I was seeeerious?  C'mon! Lighten up, Francis!

:D

As for who resents who for what...well, that's a matter of perspective, and I thought anybody in happy marriage with a functional family wouldn't be irritated by those remarks.  I'm obviously not talking about you, you, you, or you!

Alright, alright, alright, let's just take a deeeeeep breath now!

See, you feel better already.

I was just riffing on some dark humor last night while listening to Soft Cell. 

I mean, did you guys really think I was seeeerious?  C'mon! Lighten up, Francis!

:D

As for who resents who for what...well, that's a matter of perspective, and I thought anybody in happy marriage with a functional family wouldn't be irritated by those remarks.  I'm obviously not talking about you, you, you, or you!


That's nice.

That's nice.


Yeah!
:P

Season 1, episode 10:

"Is motherhood a cult?"


In what sense?  I've been thinking about this question for awhile, but I need to know what aspects the show was referring to (childbirth, nurturing, hanging out with other mothers, etc.).

In what sense?  I've been thinking about this question for awhile, but I need to know what aspects the show was referring to (childbirth, nurturing, hanging out with other mothers, etc.).


Thing about mothers is, everybody's got one!

Alright, alright, alright, let's just take a deeeeeep breath now!

See, you feel better already.

I was just riffing on some dark humor last night while listening to Soft Cell. 

I mean, did you guys really think I was seeeerious?  C'mon! Lighten up, Francis!

:D

As for who resents who for what...well, that's a matter of perspective, and I thought anybody in happy marriage with a functional family wouldn't be irritated by those remarks.  I'm obviously not talking about you, you, you, or you!


I really thought you'd do better than that.

I really thought you'd do better than that.

Weeeeellll, you know what they say, 'Can't win 'em all.  So's I s'pose I'll just take my lumps and move along down the line.
;)

I hate this show with a passion I reserve normally for those that dare question Roger Clemens or anybody who tells me that "Used to could" (As in I used to could be able to go a complete paragraph without the necessity for parenthesis) isn't correct grammar, but I was dragged to see this movie and thought Tam's questions were of mild interest, so I shall answer as follows:



The question from the very first episode:

"Can women have sex like men?"

As in, can women sleep with men without emotions?


Yes. Of course. I'm a morally bankrupt degenerate. I don't necessarily consider women that I sleep with 'trophies' but I certainly don't worry about whether I'll see them again or how we feel about things. I've met women who behave like this and I like them. In fact, if I was to become emotionally attached to somebody, the irony of life would dictate that it would be somebody with this sort of attitude. So yes, women can indeed have sex simply to enjoy having sex. As a recreational activity as it were.



Episode 2:

"Exactly how powerful is beauty?"

As in, do some men purely date because of looks, and not because of the person?


I think you've confused this one slightly. I think most men try and sleep with women based on their looks. It's not often you have a one night stand with somebody because of their undying love for Descartes. However, if one is talking about actually doing your best to form a substantive relationship then of course there is some interest in the person. You are spending time with them and if they're infuriatingly annoying or tormentingly dull then you aren't going to want to spend time with them. Simple as. I went out with this one woman for about 2 months and finally broke it off because she simply too incomprehensibly dull and vacant for me to keep seeing her. She was good looking, not just in my estimation, she just WAS good looking, but she had the personality of a bullfrog.



Episode 3:

"Is there a secret cold war between marrieds and singles?"

As in, do marrieds view singles as lonely and desolate, outside of the normal world, without hope for love or marriage in the future?


I don't know about this. Not all of my friends have got married off yet, although the invitations seem to be increasing exponentially. That being said, those of my friends that have got married, automatically become very distant and certainly seem more 'couple oriented'.

I hate this show with a passion I reserve normally for those that dare question Roger Clemens or anybody who tells me that "Used to could" (As in I used to could be able to go a complete paragraph without the necessity for parenthesis) isn't correct grammar, but I was dragged to see this movie and thought Tam's questions were of mild interest, so I shall answer as follows:


Yes. Of course. I'm a morally bankrupt degenerate. I don't necessarily consider women that I sleep with 'trophies' but I certainly don't worry about whether I'll see them again or how we feel about things. I've met women who behave like this and I like them. In fact, if I was to become emotionally attached to somebody, the irony of life would dictate that it would be somebody with this sort of attitude. So yes, women can indeed have sex simply to enjoy having sex. As a recreational activity as it were.


I think you've confused this one slightly. I think most men try and sleep with women based on their looks. It's not often you have a one night stand with somebody because of their undying love for Descartes. However, if one is talking about actually doing your best to form a substantive relationship then of course there is some interest in the person. You are spending time with them and if they're infuriatingly annoying or tormentingly dull then you aren't going to want to spend time with them. Simple as. I went out with this one woman for about 2 months and finally broke it off because she simply too incomprehensibly dull and vacant for me to keep seeing her. She was good looking, not just in my estimation, she just WAS good looking, but she had the personality of a bullfrog.


I don't know about this. Not all of my friends have got married off yet, although the invitations seem to be increasing exponentially. That being said, those of my friends that have got married, automatically become very distant and certainly seem more 'couple oriented'.



I really thought you'd do better than that.

I hate this show with a passion I reserve normally for those that dare question Roger Clemens


For he's a jolly good fellow
For he's a jolly good fellow
For he's a jolly good fehehehelooooooo....

And so says Maxwell Smart!

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_sunny.gif

 
No Max, I'm not angry at you.  I feel sorry for you, though, and not because you're a bachelor.  Being that bitter about life and other people's lives and interests can't be good for your health.


Max can speak for himself (Dude, that was an epic rant!  Karma for rant as an art form!), but I'll throw in my two bits' worth.

I used to be almost as bitter as him.  Different reasons - had a good home life, and a good career, but my potential dating pool was heavily limited by the fact that I'm childfree (I have nothing against parents; I just don't wanna be one, sorta like how cat people don't wanna own a dog, and dog people don't wanna own a cat), so anyone who said as much as "I don't know, maybe someday" was instantly off the list.  Most of my relationships ended up with her leaving me for someone "more interesting", "who understood her", and one "changed my mind about not wanting kids", etc. 

Needless to say, that was pretty frustrating for me.

Eventually I just gave up on the whole mess to concentrate on my job, but followed it from afar, as an anthropologist might.  We've learned a lot about the mechanisms behind human mating behavior in the past 10-15 years.

I could go on about studies regarding testosterone's effect on male facial features, and correlations between those features, and female-rated "attractiveness" as a function of the menstrual cycle.  (SATC's "Mr. Big" has precisely the features that look "better" when women are ovulating)  Or why human males seem to be endlessly entranced by large hip-to-waist ratios (birth canals that can safely accomodate the large human cranium) and big boobs (nutritional surplus).  About how initial attraction is influence by the degree to which the two partners' major histocompatibility complexes differ (differing immune systems permits hybrid vigor).

I'll just suggest that the oxytocin-induced "madly in love" feeling typically lasts about two years, and point out that this is about the right length of time for two humans, having regular unprotected sex, to conceive, birth, and wean an offspring.  (And if no offspring result after two years of regular unprotected sex, both partners' genes will be more likely to propagate if the pair bond dissolves and they find other partners.)  Which was about as long as it took my partners to completely get over me -- and about as long as it took me, after the end of the relationships, to completely get over them. 

It's all just neurochemistry.  There's no magic to it.

Interestingly, about 10% of humans appear to have a different regulatory process, and can apparently keep that oxytocin high going permanently.  After getting dumped a few (dozen?) times, they eventually encounter someone else with the similar mutation, and the resulting pair bond is (obviously!) stable for life.  So yeah, for some couples, that awesome romantic love stuff can, and does, last forever.

But that's also just neurochemistry.  No magic to that either.

I don't regret my past relationships, but now that I understand the basics of how the brain works, I've found better things to do with my time.  I never wanted kids, nor do I want the hassles that come with relationships, so the parts of my brain that pertain to forming pair-bonds aren't useful to me.  "Horny" is trivially fixed via pr0n.  "Lonely" goes away all by itself once you get off - and stay off - your own brain's capability to secrete oxytocin for a few years.  We're all oxytocin addicts; kisses are like pickles; the first one is hard to get out of the jar, but nobody stops at just one.  It's genetic programming - firmware, not software - so although I can't delete it, I can at least make sure the offending code never runs. 

Zero regrets about my past relationships.  But zero desire to play again.  Frankly, I prefer a good game of chess.  Or Pac-Man.  Or finding the best beer in the world.  Or Tempest.  Or trying to cook the perfect steak.  Or Robotron.  Or posting on a message board for the lulz.  So many games, so little time...

Max can speak for himself (Dude, that was an epic rant!  Karma for rant as an art form!)


See, that's what these gals didn't get!  I took an Ambien, went into a semi-trance, and put on Soft Cell "Non-Stop Erotic Cabaret," which became my muse for that post!  You're one of a few on this board who might be familiar with that record.  Anyway, I was so inspired to a cathartic stream of consciousness rather than a rational analysis. 

http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/S/soft_cell_nonf.jpg

And then the SATC women charged at me like gangbusters about how I knew nothing about there lives, their families, and their marriages.  I never said I did...but I struck some sort of chord.  Thought one of them was digging my Marc Almond-inspired rant when she started her reply, "My hell...."

Youth has gone
I heard you say
It doesn't matter
Anyway
Don't hide the photos
Or turn off the lights
I'm quite sure we've both seen
Funnier sights
Chorus:
Youth
Sleep in a deep deep deep
Beauty is skin deep
Youth has gone
Though we're still young
It's hard I know to believe
That I was somebody's son
The memories
Of what you once were
The memories of what
We both were
Chorus
Youth has gone
Though don't think
I don't cry
We let ourselves slip
And now
I ask myself why
I'm on my own
And don't think I really mind
When after all
The years have been fairly kind
Youth
Sleep in a deep deep deep
Beauty is skin deep
Sleep in a deep deep deep
Beauty is skin deep
Youth...Youth...Sleep

And certainly, Foo Bar, I was not speaking for you, though others implied I was!

I've also heard an earful of "alpha male how to pick up college girls" unsolicited lectures from my former brother-in-law over Manhattans at the pub and as much as I told the guy he was F.O.S., he wouldn't shut TF up!  Finally, he did get with some hottie grad student 20 years his junior...and he's totally enthralled to her...and after he told me about "supplication," he's shown himself to be a p*ssy slave.  We don't see him unless she leaves town without him.  It's pathetic.  That's just one example...I've seen socially retarded modern mating doctrine and rites pushed by both sexes and it's a sorry-ass sight if I ever saw one!
::)

Misery, complaints, self-pity, injustice!
Misery, complaints, self-pity, injustice!
Misery, complaints, self-pity, injustice!

Chips on my shoulder!
Chips on my shoulder!

Chips on my shoulder,
For as I get older,
I owe a debt for the things I don't get....

And I get the finger-wagging about how I have some growing up to do.  Yes, indeed, I said so in that rant.  I do.  So I deal.  However, when somebody tells you you have some growing up to do, it's often a euphemism for "Get with the program and agree with me!"
:P

And I get the finger-wagging about how I have some growing up to do.  Yes, indeed, I said so in that rant.  I do.  So I deal.  However, when somebody tells you you have some growing up to do, it's often a euphemism for "Get with the program and agree with me!"
:P


Max, I never once suggested that you needed to agree with me.

Whether or not you became enthralled/inspired, the way your post(s) came across from the beginning was that women are idiots for watching or even believing anything that has to do with SATC. Remember? They are selling us sh*t right?


SATC is not there to explore questions about human sexuality, it's there to sell sh*t.  Nothing more.  Anybody treating this program like it's some kind of liberation for women, for men, or for anybody or anything does not understand what television is:  A barrel with no bottom.

Come on.  Women have been hoodwinked by TV execs once again.  There is no socially redeeming message of SATC.  They're like pornographers such as Annie Sprinkle and Nina Hartley.  It's the same product as before, except it's not wrapped in a brown paper bag but in some bogus revolutionary statement, such as "sex positive feminism."

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/jerk.gif


Not once did I ever say in the beginning post of this thread that this program was a liberation for women, or that there was any truth in the programming whatsoever. You jumped in and basically told us that our discussions we ridiculous, our views on the questions were ridiculous, and pretty much that we were being treated like the idiots we apparently are by TV execs for watching or believing anything to do with the show.

And you expect us to sit back and let you say these things? It doesn't matter what you took, or what you smoked, or what you drank - at the heart of it is the truth, and your little rant did exactly what you wanted it to - you got attention from women.

Wow!  What a post, Foo Bar!  Let me break it down so I can answer it better. :D


Max can speak for himself (Dude, that was an epic rant!  Karma for rant as an art form!), but I'll throw in my two bits' worth.

True, Max can speak for himself, but when he's resorting to generalizing a whole group of people based on his experiences, it is really the suck.  However, after further reading, I will applaud his use of not stepping back and taking a break from his rant.  If he would have been talking, he would have ran out of breath.

I used to be almost as bitter as him.  Different reasons - had a good home life, and a good career, but my potential dating pool was heavily limited by the fact that I'm childfree (I have nothing against parents; I just don't wanna be one, sorta like how cat people don't wanna own a dog, and dog people don't wanna own a cat), so anyone who said as much as "I don't know, maybe someday" was instantly off the list.  Most of my relationships ended up with her leaving me for someone "more interesting", "who understood her", and one "changed my mind about not wanting kids", etc.

Needless to say, that was pretty frustrating for me.

And that's understandable.  An example (albeit, a weird example), my SISTER is exactly like you.  She doesn't want kids at all (mainly because she's a really angry bitch and she knows that she might not control herself if she gets in a rage).  She has DUMPED guys because they want children.  I do applaud you though for not acting like a dick about people with children, though.  I have had comments (like the beautiful comment from a former coworker when I was pregnant....."Why'd you go and do something stupid like that?" ::)) about Jason in the past, and why we had him, etc.

As for the women saying you're not interesting....well, that's a matter of opinion.  From what you post on here, I think you're one of the more interesting characters on this board.  And no, I'm not just kissing your ass. ;D

Eventually I just gave up on the whole mess to concentrate on my job, but followed it from afar, as an anthropologist might.  We've learned a lot about the mechanisms behind human mating behavior in the past 10-15 years.

I could go on about studies regarding testosterone's effect on male facial features, and correlations between those features, and female-rated "attractiveness" as a function of the menstrual cycle.  (SATC's "Mr. Big" has precisely the features that look "better" when women are ovulating)  Or why human males seem to be endlessly entranced by large hip-to-waist ratios (birth canals that can safely accomodate the large human cranium) and big boobs (nutritional surplus).  About how initial attraction is influence by the degree to which the two partners' major histocompatibility complexes differ (differing immune systems permits hybrid vigor).

Surprisingly, we actually covered some of this in my old college art history class (I think when we were studying the "Venus of Willendorf").  I found it intriguing, and if I had had the money, I would have started anthropology classes.

I'll just suggest that the oxytocin-induced "madly in love" feeling typically lasts about two years, and point out that this is about the right length of time for two humans, having regular unprotected sex, to conceive, birth, and wean an offspring.  (And if no offspring result after two years of regular unprotected sex, both partners' genes will be more likely to propagate if the pair bond dissolves and they find other partners.)  Which was about as long as it took my partners to completely get over me -- and about as long as it took me, after the end of the relationships, to completely get over them.

I'm not sure if I agree with all of that though.  Yes, there is the period of, "OMGI'MSOINLOVEWITHHIM/HERNEVERLETTHEMGO", and yes, it usually mellows out after a couple of years.  I think it's referred to as "the honeymoon period".  That doesn't mean that people will automatically give up on their partner though.  I wouldn't say it is so much a lessening of the "love", but more of a "get comfortable" phase, where you do and say whatever you want, and the partner still loves and respects you.

It's all just neurochemistry.  There's no magic to it.

That may be, but many people still like to refer to the "magic" of falling "in love".  Why ruin their good time? ;)

Interestingly, about 10% of humans appear to have a different regulatory process, and can apparently keep that oxytocin high going permanently.  After getting dumped a few (dozen?) times, they eventually encounter someone else with the similar mutation, and the resulting pair bond is (obviously!) stable for life.  So yeah, for some couples, that awesome romantic love stuff can, and does, last forever.

But that's also just neurochemistry.  No magic to that either.

I read that article!  I feel so speshul now! :D

Seriously though, you can have a stable and loving bond without the freakishly in love aspect of it.  Not saying it is for everyone, but it does happen.  My grandparents were married for over 50 years, and while I know they went through some rough times in their early marriage, they never left each other.  When my grandfather was diagnosed with Parkinson's, my grandmother never wavered in caring for him.  When he had to go to a nursing home, my grandmother was there every day.  When he died, her health started going downhill.  She's still alive, but each year brings her new medical problems to cope with.  But I'm rambling....

My parents have also been together for almost 30 years.  Yes, they fight, and yes, they get on each other's nerves, but the second anyone threatens their family or their marriage, it's on.

I don't regret my past relationships, but now that I understand the basics of how the brain works, I've found better things to do with my time.  I never wanted kids, nor do I want the hassles that come with relationships, so the parts of my brain that pertain to forming pair-bonds aren't useful to me.  "Horny" is trivially fixed via pr0n.  "Lonely" goes away all by itself once you get off - and stay off - your own brain's capability to secrete oxytocin for a few years.  We're all oxytocin addicts; kisses are like pickles; the first one is hard to get out of the jar, but nobody stops at just one.  It's genetic programming - firmware, not software - so although I can't delete it, I can at least make sure the offending code never runs. 

Zero regrets about my past relationships.  But zero desire to play again.  Frankly, I prefer a good game of chess.  Or Pac-Man.  Or finding the best beer in the world.  Or Tempest.  Or trying to cook the perfect steak.  Or Robotron.  Or posting on a message board for the lulz.  So many games, so little time...


Once again, that is your choice, and I respect you for it.  Despite what Max said in the post after you (which I'll get to in a minute), no one is forcing the "marriage, children, suburbia" thing on anyone.  I'd rather have people know their own minds and what they want than be shanghaied into something that is completely wrong for them.


See, that's what these gals didn't get!  I took an Ambien, went into a semi-trance, and put on Soft Cell "Non-Stop Erotic Cabaret," which became my muse for that post!  You're one of a few on this board who might be familiar with that record.  Anyway, I was so inspired to a cathartic stream of consciousness rather than a rational analysis. 

Taking meds doesn't excuse you from what you say.  If that were the case, I could call you every name in the book and blame it on being uninhibited by my Xanax prescription.  See? Doesn't work!

And then the SATC women charged at me like gangbusters about how I knew nothing about there lives, their families, and their marriages.  I never said I did...but I struck some sort of chord.  Thought one of them was digging my Marc Almond-inspired rant when she started her reply, "My hell...."

To quote my almost four year old, "YOU started it."  You came into this thread based on the title of it and started up on your, "Evil corporation/networks/whatever is influencing all of you into being mindless drones!" bullsh*t.  And even AFTER saying you were through with this thread, you came back and started up with your, "Families are crap, you suck if you have a family/suburban existence!" bullsh*t.  No, I don't care if you were on Ambien or listening to Soft Cell.  Cheap assed excuses for a rant that did not even have to be started.

And certainly, Foo Bar, I was not speaking for you, though others implied I was!

Nobody said you were.  I said:

You know Max, Foo Bar got his point across about being a happy bachelor without resorting to generalizing (I thought you were better than that....guess not) about a whole group of people.



I've also heard an earful of "alpha male how to pick up college girls" unsolicited lectures from my former brother-in-law over Manhattans at the pub and as much as I told the guy he was F.O.S., he wouldn't shut TF up!  Finally, he did get with some hottie grad student 20 years his junior...and he's totally enthralled to her...and after he told me about "supplication," he's shown himself to be a p*ssy slave.  We don't see him unless she leaves town without him.  It's pathetic.  That's just one example...I've seen socially retarded modern mating doctrine and rites pushed by both sexes and it's a sorry-ass sight if I ever saw one!
::)

Sorry, you lost me on that one, except the last bit.  No one, NO ONE, in this thread has pushed "mating doctrines" on you.  We are all taking exception to your rants about how we suck because we're married and live in suburbia and have children.

And I get the finger-wagging about how I have some growing up to do.  Yes, indeed, I said so in that rant.  I do.  So I deal.  However, when somebody tells you you have some growing up to do, it's often a euphemism for "Get with the program and agree with me!"
:P

Wrong again.  I suggest you go back and read Tam's post and what she said.

I for one don't want you to agree with me, I just wanted you to know that I thought your rant was really uncalled for, even if it is impressive in the way you didn't stop to take a breather.

Max, I never once suggested that you needed to agree with me.

Whether or not you became enthralled/inspired, the way your post(s) came across from the beginning was that women are idiots for watching or even believing anything that has to do with SATC. Remember? They are selling us sh*t right?
i'll probably regret jumping in the middle of this but i was thinking about this a bit and i read maxwell's post as meaning more that television in general is meaningless, and to the extent that SatC is meaningless it's meaningless in the way that television itself is. i disagree vehemently, of course, i think television is often quite intelligent and meaningful, but it's hard to read a gender-specific focus to maxwell's comments except insofar as he's talking, in this instance, about a show that's aimed toward women as a target demographic.

as for the relationship/marriage stuff, he also seems to be calling out both genders. women are desperate to procreate/gold-dig and men are desperate for social stature, trophy wives and... to procreate. of course this isn't true of all marriages/relationships but it does seem to be true of quite a few, and if i don't share MS's bitterness on the subject, i don't, but that's only because of women i've met recently who've disabused me of some life-long misperceptions i had about women. just about all my life my attitude was that most women enter relationships for shallow, self-interested or other ulterior motives and, unfortunately, i found it easy to hold that attitude for years because evidence to support it is just not difficult to come by. men have ulterior motives for entering romantic relationships too, but since i don't enter romantic relationships with me, i just don't care as much.

i meant "since i don't enter romantic relationships with men." i enter romantic relationships with me more-or-less constantly.

i'll probably regret jumping in the middle of this but i was thinking about this a bit and i read maxwell's post as meaning more that television in general is meaningless, and to the extent that SatC is meaningless it's meaningless in the way that television itself is. i disagree vehemently, of course, i think television is often quite intelligent and meaningful, but it's hard to read a gender-specific focus to maxwell's comments except insofar as he's talking, in this instance, about a show that's aimed toward women as a target demographic.

as for the relationship/marriage stuff, he also seems to be calling out both genders. women are desperate to procreate/gold-dig and men are desperate for social stature, trophy wives and... to procreate. of course this isn't true of all marriages/relationships but it does seem to be true of quite a few, and if i don't share MS's bitterness on the subject, i don't, but that's only because of women i've met recently who've disabused me of some life-long misperceptions i had about women. just about all my life my attitude was that most women enter relationships for shallow, self-interested or other ulterior motives and, unfortunately, i found it easy to hold that attitude for years because evidence to support it is just not difficult to come by. men have ulterior motives for entering romantic relationships too, but since i don't enter romantic relationships with men, i just don't care as much.


Don't regret it - you made a valid point. You interpretation of his comment is completely different from mine. Now, when I read his post, had he said something to the effect of "Television .... is there to sell sh*t" I most likely would not have said a word to him. However, he didn't say that. He said "SATC is not there to explore questions about human sexuality, it's there to sell sh*t.  Nothing more.  Anybody treating this program like it's some kind of liberation for women, for men, or for anybody or anything does not understand what television is:  A barrel with no bottom."

So, Jess asked if he read the first post - because Max's rant seemed oblivious to what was being said in the creation of the thread. He then said he wasn't going to say anything further on the subject, so we went about our business. Of course, people are going to reply to his comments. If he didn't want the replies he could have easily had his comments removed. But instead he came back in, guns blazing, and now apparently blaming the ambien and other outside influences for his latest rant. It doesn't work that way. He can dish pretty good, but when questioned about what he has said, he tries to turn it around on all the women, jumping down his throat. That was hardly the case.

I'd be a bit maudlin if I listened to Soft Cell too.

Don't regret it - you made a valid point. You interpretation of his comment is completely different from mine. Now, when I read his post, had he said something to the effect of "Television .... is there to sell sh*t" I most likely would not have said a word to him. However, he didn't say that. He said "SATC is not there to explore questions about human sexuality, it's there to sell sh*t.  Nothing more.  Anybody treating this program like it's some kind of liberation for women, for men, or for anybody or anything does not understand what television is:  A barrel with no bottom."

well, sure, only he's bending over backward to not use gender-specific language (women, men or anybody or anything) and yet his comments are being received in a very gender-specific way. instead he seems to be calling all of us stupid for watching television and looking to it for life wisdoms, which though maybe also a bit annoying, is a much more minor infraction. (hell, though i love television i really don't mind if people give me a hard time for watching it; it's probably healthy to hear that from time to time.) however, in the reaction to him we have, for example, this


Men do not understand the fact that all women do not want to be subservient and "listen to" "men."  Ever since women have grown their own minds, man still does not want to believe that women are free and independent thinkers, and can choose their will of their own accord. So man has created the women's  "movement" (or another cult like fantasy) that is the reasoning that all of the female persuasion have had their mind controlled and forced into joining (jumping up on the bandwagon).  Not that women have just grown into their own.   Men then also have a very serious ego problem (it can be wounded very easily), and they want to be the center of attention no matter how.  Since us women no longer regard men as our sole means of existence, we have not been giving them the attention they feel they need.   So men will revert back to their 2 year old mines, and jump up and down and start crying and throwing a tantrum to get the desired attention.  Mom always gave them attention when they did this (good or bad) and we are supposed to too.  WHICH IS WHY MY FAVORITE SAYING TO MY HUSBAND IS "I AM NOT YOUR MOM!!!" ;D ;D ;D ;D
which is quite free with total facile generalizations about the male gender, and was eagerly agreed to as far as i could tell. do all men really seek women who are subservient? do we really all resent and fear free and independent thinking women? do we really all have a serious ego problem? i really find this stuff pretty objectionable and yet i'm not seeing much protest over it here.

i have a few stories that i could tell that indicate that sometimes a bit of a "gang" mentality does arise among many women when the subject of gender comes up. a female co-worker who gave me the following joke email in the office once

http://skirsch.com/humor/man_jokes.htm

i hasten to add the gender ratio in the office was probably like four women to one man.

now imagine if these were jokes about women. giving them to someone in the office would probably not only get you fired, it might get you arrested. but my co-worker was able to hang this up on her desk with no negative consequences.

also, i was in a women's studies class in college and we were reading "the handmaid's tale," a feminist novel that involves, among other things, the systematic use of rape for procreation. in the story the men, along with the women, were basically being forced to participate in this system whether they wanted to or not, which raised the question of whether it was physically possible for a man to commit rape when he didn't want to. so a bunch of the female students turned to me, as the only man in the class -- well, there was another guy, as i recall, but he wisely sat in the back of the class and kept his mouth shut -- and asked me point blank if i would be capable of getting an erection in order to commit a rape. i actually had to point out that that was an incredibly invasive and inappropriate question and i refused to answer it. i think any individual person would have known better than to ask the question in the first place but because of the co-enabling environment in the classroom they felt perfectly comfortable asking me that because i was a man and therefore, apparently, not a human being but merely a subject of study.

so basically i have to admit i AM kinda seeing some piling on here, particularly with 2kid's post but also with a lot of the other exchanges going on here. consider that there was a confessional aspect to maxwell's post that would make it hard for him to rebut arguments against him; he's talking a lot about his, apparently dysfunctional, family history and that's going to put him at a decided disadvantage in any flame war that subsequently arises. i'm not sure that's occurred to anybody here. it didn't really occur to me until this morning when i went over this thread again.

Taking meds doesn't excuse you from what you say.  If that were the case, I could call you every name in the book and blame it on being uninhibited by my Xanax prescription.  See? Doesn't work!



I didn't say it was an excuse, I said it was inspiration. 
:)

Wrong again.  I suggest you go back and read Tam's post and what she said.
Wrrrong again, honey, wrong again!

--Firesign Theatre


I for one don't want you to agree with me, I just wanted you to know that I thought your rant was really uncalled for, even if it is impressive in the way you didn't stop to take a breather.


Uncalled for, eh?  Come on, please.

The entire thread is based on a TV show about fornication, adultery, and screwing in public...I mean, I mean, bliiiimey!  Blimey fuggin' 'ell!  I've been around the block a few times, and I decided to just stay home 'coz all these "rebels" out there; all these kinky edgy people who who love to be bad boys and girls (if not by their own hands, at least vicariously) always turn out to be so touchy and neurotic that they start making up rules of etiquette and telling others what they should or shouldn't do.  Yeah, that's right from the punks to the sadomasochists to the swingers turn out to be as uptight as a Puritan minister (and they dress like one too!)  It's freedom for me to be as irreverent as I please, but you better not be irreverent to MY irreverence! 

I'm not saying this is how you are; I just heard a hint of it there.

I'd be a bit maudlin if I listened to Soft Cell too.


I only know one song :(

I only know one song :(
actually, me too. i didn't know they even MADE albums. 

well, sure, only he's bending over backward to not use gender-specific language (women, men or anybody or anything) and yet his comments are being received in a very gender-specific way. instead he seems to be calling all of us stupid for watching television and looking to it for life wisdoms, which though maybe also a bit annoying, is a much more minor infraction. (hell, though i love television i really don't mind if people give me a hard time for watching it; it's probably healthy to hear that from time to time.) however, in the reaction to him we have, for example, this
which is quite free with total facile generalizations about the male gender, and was eagerly agreed to as far as i could tell. do all men really seek women who are subservient? do we really all resent and fear free and independent thinking women? do we really all have a serious ego problem? i really find this stuff pretty objectionable and yet i'm not seeing much protest over it here.

i have a few stories that i could tell that indicate that sometimes a bit of a "gang" mentality does arise among many women when the subject of gender comes up. a female co-worker who gave me the following joke email in the office once

http://skirsch.com/humor/man_jokes.htm

now imagine if these were jokes about women. giving them to someone in the office would probably not only get you fired, it might get you arrested. but my co-worker was able to hang this up on her desk with no negative consequences.

also, i was in a women's studies class in college and we were reading "the handmaid's tale," a feminist novel that involves, among other things, the systematic use of rape for procreation. in the story the men, along with the women, were basically being forced to participate in this system whether they wanted to or not, which raised the question of whether it was physically possible for a man to commit rape when he didn't want to. so a bunch of the female students turned to me, as the only man in the class -- well, there was another guy, as i recall, but he wisely sat in the back of the class and kept his mouth shut -- and asked me point blank if i would be capable of getting an erection in order to commit a rape. i actually had to point out that that was an incredibly invasive and inappropriate question and i refused to answer it. i think any individual person would have known better than to ask the question in the first place but because of the co-enabling environment in the classroom they felt perfectly comfortable asking me that because i was a man and therefore, apparently, not a human being but merely a subject of study.

so basically i have to admit i AM kinda seeing some piling on here, particularly with 2kid's post but also with a lot of the other exchanges going on here. consider that there was a confessional aspect to maxwell's post that would make it hard for him to rebut arguments against him; he's talking a lot about his, apparently dysfunctional, family history and that's going to put him at a decided disadvantage in any flame war that subsequently arises. i'm not sure that's occurred to anybody here. it didn't really occur to me until this morning when i went over this thread again.


I believe Mike, that you and I might be at an impasse.

I do agree that you make very valid points, but I can't say that I understand them. Not because I am an ignorant person - but because I am female. I will not pretend to understand the male psyche, just as I would expect a male to not understand the female one. You 'get' what Max has said, imho, because you are male. You read it the way he might have intended it, because you are male. It is sad, but as soon as a woman feels they have been belittled - they get their backs up. I'm not saying that this is justification, I am just saying that's how some women are.

The joke you posted - I agree that it is inappropriate. I personally find them to be from a feminist point of view, which I do not hold.

So it comes down to interpretation. Some men see his initial post to be gender unbiased, but by the same token, some women see it as being completely gender biased. Will you give that to a person?

And you brought up an very interesting question:
"Do all men really seek women who are subservient? Do we really all resent and fear free and independent thinking women? Do we really all have a serious ego problem?"
This in fact would be the type of question that the female lead of the show would be asking her column readers, and then she would go out into the City, in order to find her answer. What it all boils down to are the questions that are being asked. For anyone who has seen the show, they would know that the questions aren't always asked just from the female point of view. They are quite literally asked from the 'human' point of view, which is why I started the thread in the first place.

It is to ask the questions and get answers from both perspectives - not for women to be ridiculed and made to feel like idiots because the show prompted us to ask questions. His posts might have been received differently if he had approached them from a different angle.

actually, me too. i didn't know they even MADE albums. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_Cell

Soft Cell made stygian records exploring the sleaze, disease, crime, grime, and loneliness.  Their career as Soft Cell lasted barely five years, really from about 1979 to about 1984.  Marc Almond is a prolific songwriter who continued Soft Cell's themes as "Marc Almond & the Willing Sinners," "Marc and the Mambas," and as a solo artist.  Dave Ball, the other guy, drifted in and out of the experimental/electronica scene with such acts as Psychic TV and The Grid.  Soft Cell did reunite early this decade for a tour and an album, "Cruelty Without Beauty," but it wasn't very interesting.  For me, at least, Marc's style after the initial Soft Cell run didn't offer the same infernal catharsis.  Kids who popped their fingers to "Tainted Love" were often appalled by songs like "Sex Dwarf" and "Bedsitter."

Most pop culture sleaze doesn't appeal to me unless there's some kind of brains behind it as with William S. Burroughs, or Soft Cell!
8)

I could certainly address Ms. Tam's questions about SATC, but even without the spit-in-your-eye sarcasm--especially without it--neither she nor the others would want to hear my point of view. 

well, sure, only he's bending over backward to not use gender-specific language (women, men or anybody or anything) and yet his comments are being received in a very gender-specific way. instead he seems to be calling all of us stupid for watching television and looking to it for life wisdoms, which though maybe also a bit annoying, is a much more minor infraction. (hell, though i love television i really don't mind if people give me a hard time for watching it; it's probably healthy to hear that from time to time.) however, in the reaction to him we have, for example, this
which is quite free with total facile generalizations about the male gender, and was eagerly agreed to as far as i could tell. do all men really seek women who are subservient? do we really all resent and fear free and independent thinking women? do we really all have a serious ego problem? i really find this stuff pretty objectionable and yet i'm not seeing much protest over it here.

You'll hear it from me.  I missed 2kidsami's post the first time around, but I have to agree with you on it.  There has only been one man who has expected me to be subservient and stroke his ego.  He didn't last long in my life, once I wised up.  So yes, I do agree that the post was heavy handed.

i have a few stories that i could tell that indicate that sometimes a bit of a "gang" mentality does arise among many women when the subject of gender comes up. a female co-worker who gave me the following joke email in the office once

http://skirsch.com/humor/man_jokes.htm

i hasten to add the gender ratio in the office was probably like four women to one man.

now imagine if these were jokes about women. giving them to someone in the office would probably not only get you fired, it might get you arrested. but my co-worker was able to hang this up on her desk with no negative consequences.

I've heard those jokes before, but some were changed to be from a man's point of view.  Either way, I don't care.  They're all so old that I'm surprised to even see them.

also, i was in a women's studies class in college and we were reading "the handmaid's tale," a feminist novel that involves, among other things, the systematic use of rape for procreation. in the story the men, along with the women, were basically being forced to participate in this system whether they wanted to or not, which raised the question of whether it was physically possible for a man to commit rape when he didn't want to. so a bunch of the female students turned to me, as the only man in the class -- well, there was another guy, as i recall, but he wisely sat in the back of the class and kept his mouth shut -- and asked me point blank if i would be capable of getting an erection in order to commit a rape. i actually had to point out that that was an incredibly invasive and inappropriate question and i refused to answer it. i think any individual person would have known better than to ask the question in the first place but because of the co-enabling environment in the classroom they felt perfectly comfortable asking me that because i was a man and therefore, apparently, not a human being but merely a subject of study.

First off, I LOVE that book, minus all the bullsh*t themes they throw at you in school.  Second, you should have asked them if they'd get turned on if they were holding a man hostage, just like they were doing to you in that class by asking such a question.

so basically i have to admit i AM kinda seeing some piling on here, particularly with 2kid's post but also with a lot of the other exchanges going on here. consider that there was a confessional aspect to maxwell's post that would make it hard for him to rebut arguments against him; he's talking a lot about his, apparently dysfunctional, family history and that's going to put him at a decided disadvantage in any flame war that subsequently arises. i'm not sure that's occurred to anybody here. it didn't really occur to me until this morning when i went over this thread again.

No, I do feel sympathy for Max because of all he dealt with when he was growing up.  He sort of knocked me for a loop though when he started up about how all families are going to end up in bad ways.  However, it was all "inspired" by an Ambien and Soft Cell binge, so I guess it doesn't matter, right?


The entire thread is based on a TV show about fornication, adultery, and screwing in public...I mean, I mean, bliiiimey!  Blimey fuggin' 'ell!  I've been around the block a few times, and I decided to just stay home 'coz all these "rebels" out there; all these kinky edgy people who who love to be bad boys and girls (if not by their own hands, at least vicariously) always turn out to be so touchy and neurotic that they start making up rules of etiquette and telling others what they should or shouldn't do.  Yeah, that's right from the punks to the sadomasochists to the swingers turn out to be as uptight as a Puritan minister (and they dress like one too!)  It's freedom for me to be as irreverent as I please, but you better not be irreverent to MY irreverence! 

I'm not saying this is how you are; I just heard a hint of it there.


LAY OFF THE F*CKING AMBIEN!!!!

No, I do feel sympathy for Max because of all he dealt with when he was growing up.  He sort of knocked me for a loop though when he started up about how all families are going to end up in bad ways.  However, it was all "inspired" by an Ambien and Soft Cell binge, so I guess it doesn't matter, right?

LAY OFF THE F*CKING AMBIEN!!!!


I hain't askin' for sympathy or advice on my med regimen. 

First off, I LOVE that book, minus all the bullsh*t themes they throw at you in school.  Second, you should have asked them if they'd get turned on if they were holding a man hostage, just like they were doing to you in that class by asking such a question.

yeah, it was cool. i read a couple of other atwood books because of it but none of the others were as good.

and i'm kicking myself now. i should have totally said that; instead all i could think of is to cry and be scared of girls and say "my mom told me i don't have to answer questions like that."  :\'(

as an aside, i'm gonna have to lock all the doors and windows from the outside and try some ambien sometime. that must be some good sheesh!

yeah, it was cool. i read a couple of other atwood books because of it but none of the others were as good.

and i'm kicking myself now. i should have totally said that; instead all i could think of is to cry and be scared of girls and say "my mom told me i don't have to answer questions like that."  :\'(


I haven't read any other books by her, but that one I own and read like every couple of months.  When Dubya was president, it just seemed like something that could happen.  Totally scarier than any horror flick.

Don't you hate when that happens?  You think of all the best lines after it's all over with. :P


as an aside, i'm gonna have to lock all the doors and windows from the outside and try some ambien sometime. that must be some good sheesh!


Xanax is better.  It stops you from feeling fear.

i'll probably regret jumping in the middle of this but i was thinking about this a bit and i read maxwell's post as meaning more that television in general is meaningless, and to the extent that SatC is meaningless it's meaningless in the way that television itself is. i disagree vehemently, of course, i think television is often quite intelligent and meaningful, but it's hard to read a gender-specific focus to maxwell's comments except insofar as he's talking, in this instance, about a show that's aimed toward women as a target demographic.

as for the relationship/marriage stuff, he also seems to be calling out both genders. women are desperate to procreate/gold-dig and men are desperate for social stature, trophy wives and... to procreate. of course this isn't true of all marriages/relationships but it does seem to be true of quite a few, and if i don't share MS's bitterness on the subject, i don't, but that's only because of women i've met recently who've disabused me of some life-long misperceptions i had about women. just about all my life my attitude was that most women enter relationships for shallow, self-interested or other ulterior motives and, unfortunately, i found it easy to hold that attitude for years because evidence to support it is just not difficult to come by. men have ulterior motives for entering romantic relationships too, but since i don't enter romantic relationships with me, i just don't care as much.


I am grateful for the people out there who can get married, stay married, and maintain functional families for their children.  Over the past few generations we have underestimated how much divorce--even amicable divorce--harms children.  Unfortunately, the loudest advocates of marriage and family are the Christian Right and nobody wants to listen to them except their own flocks.  I see it as a utilitarian question--what works and what doesn't.  Pop culture for forty years has been advocating easy divorce and casual sex as liberating.  I see no empirical evidence that it is.  That's all.  It's got nothing to do with what the church says.  

I haven't read any other books by her, but that one I own and read like every couple of months.  When Dubya was president, it just seemed like something that could happen.  Totally scarier than any horror flick.

Don't you hate when that happens?  You think of all the best lines after it's all over with. :P

Xanax is better.  It stops you from feeling fear.


But if you take a bunch of Ambien and they try and stay up and fu...

as an aside, i'm gonna have to lock all the doors and windows from the outside and try some ambien sometime. that must be some good sheesh!


Ambien's is a mild hypnotic.  I'm more sensitive to psychoactive substances than most people.  Ambien can be habit-forming.  For me, the little buzz is just a prelude to eight hours of sleep, which is what it's for.  A friend of mine said Ambien did nothing for him, but he's into speed, so he needs something like Seconal to break the insomnia.  These combinations can kill you if you don't know what you're doing, but my friend's in his sixties and he's been doing this stuff for decades!

I prefer Klonopin to Xanax.  Xanax makes me kind of muddy-headed.  It all depends on the individual when it comes to meds. 

But if you take a bunch of Ambien and they try and stay up and fu...


A few years ago Rep. Patches Kennedy crashed his car into Jersey barriers on his way from Providence to DC.  He was loaded on Ambien.  You can play loosey-goosey with some label warnings, but "Do not drive on Ambien" is not one of them!

i'm googling ambien now. apparently crushing and snorting it is a very intelligent thing to do.

among its side-effects: "Decreased libido"!

sold!

i remember when viagra came out i was like, ok, don't need it, but do you have, like, an anti-viagra? cuz i could really use that.

I don't even know where to start...

To Tia, i.e. Reverse Sexism:  Tia, I think you know I pretty much worship you.  But you coming in here and saying that women are ganging up on men is just bullocks.  Men have ruled the world since the begining of freaking time.  Men have had their way for the last couple of thousand years.  We've had what?  30?  I think there are many many many men that have their egos in a twist in this day and age.  It's almost like now that women are making their way in the world, they have no idea how to handle it.  I think Hillary's campaign for President was a perfect example of this.  There were countless jokes about her being a woman.  Now I'm the first to admit that a lot of this might have to do with my perspective and where I'm from.  I think most people know that I'm from Utah - the Mormon state.  The Mormon church is a male-dominated church - the men are the bosses, the women pretty much keep their traps shut.  They were insturmental in voting down the women's movement back in the 70's.  I realize that this isn't the norm in the rest of the country, but it is my reality, and it's also the reality of most of the men in my life, both Mormon and non.  So I'm a little bitter.  Anyway, I don't think 2kidsami's post was that far off the mark.  You guys might not experience that in your lives, but I most certainly feel it in mine.  I can absolutely relate to where she is coming from.


I am grateful for the people out there who can get married, stay married, and maintain functional families for their children.  Over the past few generations we have underestimated how much divorce--even amicable divorce--harms children.  Unfortunately, the loudest advocates of marriage and family are the Christian Right and nobody wants to listen to them except their own flocks.  I see it as a utilitarian question--what works and what doesn't.  Pop culture for forty years has been advocating easy divorce and casual sex as liberating.  I see no empirical evidence that it is.  That's all.  It's got nothing to do with what the church says.  


Wow.  Why couldn't you have said this in the first place?  I completely agree with this.

Max, I don't think you're a bad guy.  But (and I'm just being honest here) sometimes you just come off as the biggest d!ck.  I felt like you were just trying to stick it to all of us stupid chicks in your original posts.  You can have such an air of superiority.  You had to have known we weren't going to take that lying down.  I mean...you got on here and pretty much said that my entire life was schitt.  I realize you weren't aiming it at me personally, but it still pissed me off.  Of course it did. 

And you guys, of course marriage isn't for everyone.  I never thought I was going to get married.  My husband and I lived together happily for a really long time, and then one day out of the blue he just said "wanna get married?"  I think I was more surprised than anyone.  And I'm also pretty surprised to be living in the suburbs too.  We used to live in a really cool condo in the middle of a kind of industrial area.  Like Jess said, you just sort of mellow out.  And I have to say, my house rocks.  But my husband and I are both super liberal, pierced and tattooed and childless partiers living in the middle of playdate central.  We SOOO don't fit in.  And we couldn't be happier.  Go figure...

Oh, and for the record, I take Ambien too.     

I think most people know that I'm from Utah - the Mormon state.  The Mormon church is a male-dominated church - the men are the bosses, the women pretty much keep their traps shut.  They were insturmental in voting down the women's movement back in the 70's.  I realize that this isn't the norm in the rest of the country, but it is my reality, and it's also the reality of most of the men in my life, both Mormon and non.  So I'm a little bitter.



Oh yeah.  Remember how they got their panties in a wad when Gov Leavitt went to DC and that would make his Lt Gov the Governor...and the LT was a female.  **gasp**  It took them forever to swear her in because it couldn't be legal for a girl to be in charge. ::) Utah is very backwards.

I don't even know where to start...

To Tia, i.e. Reverse Sexism:  Tia, I think you know I pretty much worship you.  But you coming in here and saying that women are ganging up on men is just bullocks.  Men have ruled the world since the begining of freaking time.  Men have had their way for the last couple of thousand years.  We've had what?  30?  I think there are many many many men that have their egos in a twist in this day and age.  It's almost like now that women are making their way in the world, they have no idea how to handle it.  I think Hillary's campaign for President was a perfect example of this.  There were countless jokes about her being a woman.  Now I'm the first to admit that a lot of this might have to do with my perspective and where I'm from.  I think most people know that I'm from Utah - the Mormon state.  The Mormon church is a male-dominated church - the men are the bosses, the women pretty much keep their traps shut.  They were insturmental in voting down the women's movement back in the 70's.  I realize that this isn't the norm in the rest of the country, but it is my reality, and it's also the reality of most of the men in my life, both Mormon and non.  So I'm a little bitter.  Anyway, I don't think 2kidsami's post was that far off the mark.  You guys might not experience that in your lives, but I most certainly feel it in mine.  I can absolutely relate to where she is coming from.
well, i readily agree with all you've said about the history of sexism and "men ruling the world" and all that, but i don't think any of that justifies wild generalizations or makes insults anything other than insulting. when i read 2kid's post i felt personally insulted, just as i assume you feel insulted when you encounter sexism in your life. i dont think either excuses the other, i wouldn't use 2kid's post to justify ragging on hillary clinton (and i agree with you there too, she definitely caught a lot of unfair sheesh during the campaign, and the whole stuff with judging the dress michelle obama wore to the inauguration was ridiculous; i didn't hear anybody talking about obama's friggin' scarf  ::) ) but i just see those as separate things. i guess if you felt insulted by maxwell's post i'm just going to say that i was insulted by 2kid's and will continue to be, whether someone insists i shouldn't feel insulted by it because of historical sexism. the post still makes assumptions about me that aren't warranted because of my gender, and because of that i reject it. not to be presumptuous but i actually think it's probably harmful for the person harboring the stereotype nearly as much as the person it's directed to. i wouldn't want to go through life thinking that all men are immature, egotistical two-year-olds and i'm thankful that i can reject that view out of hand.

as for mormons, i got nothin' for ya.  'fraid i'm prepared to defend mormonism in exactly zero ways, shapes or forms. :D

Oh yeah.  Remember how they got their panties in a wad when Gov Leavitt went to DC and that would make his Lt Gov the Governor...and the LT was a female.  **gasp**  It took them forever to swear her in because it couldn't be legal for a girl to be in charge. ::) Utah is very backwards.


I just realized that Utah spelled backwards is HATU, which is the acronym for a reagent I use in my peptide synthesis reactions. 

I just realized that Utah spelled backwards is HATU, which is the acronym for a reagent I use in my peptide synthesis reactions. 
dude, you just now noticed that?  ::) i can't even look at a mormon without thinking peptide synthesis... reagent... thingies.

well, i readily agree with all you've said about the history of sexism and "men ruling the world" and all that, but i don't think any of that justifies wild generalizations or makes insults anything other than insulting. when i read 2kid's post i felt personally insulted, just as i assume you feel insulted when you encounter sexism in your life. i dont think either excuses the other, i wouldn't use 2kid's post to justify ragging on hillary clinton (and i agree with you there too, she definitely caught a lot of unfair sheesh during the campaign, and the whole stuff with judging the dress michelle obama wore to the inauguration was ridiculous; i didn't hear anybody talking about obama's friggin' scarf  ::) ) but i just see those as separate things. i guess if you felt insulted by maxwell's post i'm just going to say that i was insulted by 2kid's and will continue to be, whether someone insists i shouldn't feel insulted by it because of historical sexism. the post still makes assumptions about me that aren't warranted because of my gender, and because of that i reject it. not to be presumptuous but i actually think it's probably harmful for the person harboring the stereotype nearly as much as the person it's directed to. i wouldn't want to go through life thinking that all men are immature, egotistical two-year-olds and i'm thankful that i can reject that view out of hand.

as for mormons, i got nothin' for ya.  'fraid i'm prepared to defend mormonism in exactly zero ways, shapes or forms. :D


I think we're looking at it in completely different ways.  I didn't think Max was being sexist.  As I said earlier, I just thought he was being a dick.  And I'm not defending sexism against men.  Of course I think sexism is wrong, no matter who it's against.  Once again, it's all a matter of perspective.  I looked at 2kid's post more as defending women than attacking men.  I can see why you would have seen it as attacking men though.  Some of the things she said were pretty harsh, but sometimes when you're mad or fed up, you say harsh stuff.  I said it before and I'll say it again, I can see where she is coming from.  

I don't think we are ever going to agree on this, and that's ok.  We don't have to agree on everything.  

I think we're looking at it in completely different ways.  I didn't think Max was being sexist.  As I said earlier, I just thought he was being a dick.  And I'm not defending sexism against men.  Of course I think sexism is wrong, no matter who it's against.  Once again, it's all a matter of perspective.  I looked at 2kid's post more as defending women than attacking men.  I can see why you would have seen it as attacking men though.  Some of the things she said were pretty harsh, but sometimes when you're mad or fed up, you say harsh stuff.  I said it before and I'll say it again, I can see where she is coming from.  

I don't think we are ever going to agree on this, and that's ok.  We don't have to agree on everything.  


Huh.  I wondered if I could say "dick."

Now everyone take some drug of your choice and STFU. :-*

i still think girls have cooties >:(

i still think girls have cooties >:(


*flings cooties towards Tia*

Oh yeah.  Remember how they got their panties in a wad when Gov Leavitt went to DC and that would make his Lt Gov the Governor...and the LT was a female.  **gasp**  It took them forever to swear her in because it couldn't be legal for a girl to be in charge. ::) Utah is very backwards.


Word.  And I thought she did a really good job, but then lost by a landslide when she ran for election.  So lame.



i still think girls have cooties >:(


That was SO SEXIST.   ::)

After years of elementary school, I have acquired enough cootie shots to be properly vaccinated against that dastardly cootie.

I don't even know where to start...

To Tia, i.e. Reverse Sexism:  Tia, I think you know I pretty much worship you.  But you coming in here and saying that women are ganging up on men is just bullocks.  Men have ruled the world since the begining of freaking time.  Men have had their way for the last couple of thousand years.  We've had what?  30?  I think there are many many many men that have their egos in a twist in this day and age.  It's almost like now that women are making their way in the world, they have no idea how to handle it.  I think Hillary's campaign for President was a perfect example of this.  There were countless jokes about her being a woman. 
Agreed, yes.  And I despised the sexist jokes about Hillary.  That was just distraction from the fact that Hillary was smarter than the whole slate of Republican candidates put together, and they didn't like it!  Then there were the inevitable menstruation jokes that pop up around the question of a woman president.  Hillary is 61 years old.  She a bit past that!  Anyway, I'm getting to political for TTT.
::)

Now I'm the first to admit that a lot of this might have to do with my perspective and where I'm from.  I think most people know that I'm from Utah - the Mormon state.  The Mormon church is a male-dominated church - the men are the bosses, the women pretty much keep their traps shut.  They were insturmental in voting down the women's movement back in the 70's. 
I'm not a big fan of the Mormon church.  Massachusetts had Mitt the Mormon as governor.

Wow.  Why couldn't you have said this in the first place?  I completely agree with this.
You'll agree with me sometimes.  You'll disagree with me other times.  I feel about SATC the same way as I feel about shows/movies that celebrate men using women as sex objects.  Women doing the same to men isn't any better.  Please, I'm not saying anybody SHOULDN'T watch SATC, just that it's erroneous to pretend it has something to teach.

Max, I don't think you're a bad guy.  But (and I'm just being honest here) sometimes you just come off as the biggest d!ck.  I felt like you were just trying to stick it to all of us stupid chicks in your original posts.  You can have such an air of superiority.  You had to have known we weren't going to take that lying down.  I mean...you got on here and pretty much said that my entire life was schitt.  I realize you weren't aiming it at me personally, but it still pissed me off.  Of course it did.
What goes around comes around.  It is obvious to anyone that SATC piques my insecurities.  The wise choice would have been to ignore the thread.  But I didn't.  Then I said I was going to, but I still didn't.  Instead, I went off on a rant that piqued your insecurities, and perpetuated a negative cycle.  Then I tried to back off from it, which everyone saw was kinda lame.  So I gotta take my lumps, as it were.  I know I can be a horrendous little sh!t.  It might be cold comfort to you, but I'm much more self-disciplined than I used to be.  I let the little sh!t have his say now and again but I know I have to pay for it.  For instance,  I made one guy so mad with stuff I said to him that his brother tried to beat me up for it two years later.  The guy's brother was falling-down drunk and had just stumbled out of a bar, so he just hit me feebly a few times and stumbled down the sidewalk.  My friends said I should press charges because he committed assault and battery.  True, but nobody got hurt in the incursion, so I just let it go.  If I hadn't been a dick to his brother, he wouldn't have had a reason to jump me.  What goes around comes around.

Nice weather we are having, huh?



Cat

dude, you just now noticed that?  ::) i can't even look at a mormon without thinking peptide synthesis... reagent... thingies.

Peptide synthesis reactions are all the rage this year.  Of course, I was doin' 'em way before those raver kids made 'em chic!
:D

Nice weather we are having, huh?



Cat


Oh, you think you're so clever with your mean snide remarks, well, lemme tell you I can see through you like a book!
>:(

ok everybody gang up on catwoman now. on three...

My weather's lousy.  It's so lousy that naked people are everywhere.

Episode 4:

"Are men in their 20's the new designer drug?"


Being that I am no longer in my 20s, I still think I can be a designer drug if I desired 8)

My weather's lousy.  It's so lousy that naked people are everywhere.




Is this in real life, or just on your computer?

ok everybody gang up on catwoman now. on three...


Yeah!  She hates weather!


My weather's lousy.  It's so lousy that naked people are everywhere.




I'm surprised no one touched this remark.


Is this in real life, or just on your computer?


There we go. 8)

Actually they are doing something called "The Polar Bear Run" where everyone strips and runs across campus for whatever reason...in the cold.  They were going to do it last week but it was like minus-cold out.

And ironically, most of the naked people will be men, although there are some brave girls 8)

Is this in real life, or just on your computer?


What this "real life" thing of which you speak?

And ironically, most of the naked people will be men, although there are some brave girls 8)


I'm gonna try and start that here in my neighboorhood.



Agreed, yes.  And I despised the sexist jokes about Hillary.  That was just distraction from the fact that Hillary was smarter than the whole slate of Republican candidates put together, and they didn't like it!  Then there were the inevitable menstruation jokes that pop up around the question of a woman president.  Hillary is 61 years old.  She a bit past that!  Anyway, I'm getting to political for TTT.
::)
I'm not a big fan of the Mormon church.  Massachusetts had Mitt the Mormon as governor.
You'll agree with me sometimes.  You'll disagree with me other times.  I feel about SATC the same way as I feel about shows/movies that celebrate men using women as sex objects.  Women doing the same to men isn't any better.  Please, I'm not saying anybody SHOULDN'T watch SATC, just that it's erroneous to pretend it has something to teach.
What goes around comes around.  It is obvious to anyone that SATC piques my insecurities.  The wise choice would have been to ignore the thread.  But I didn't.  Then I said I was going to, but I still didn't.  Instead, I went off on a rant that piqued your insecurities, and perpetuated a negative cycle.  Then I tried to back off from it, which everyone saw was kinda lame.  So I gotta take my lumps, as it were.  I know I can be a horrendous little sh!t.  It might be cold comfort to you, but I'm much more self-disciplined than I used to be.  I let the little sh!t have his say now and again but I know I have to pay for it.  For instance,  I made one guy so mad with stuff I said to him that his brother tried to beat me up for it two years later.  The guy's brother was falling-down drunk and had just stumbled out of a bar, so he just hit me feebly a few times and stumbled down the sidewalk.  My friends said I should press charges because he committed assault and battery.  True, but nobody got hurt in the incursion, so I just let it go.  If I hadn't been a dick to his brother, he wouldn't have had a reason to jump me.  What goes around comes around.




I'd suggest a group hug after this, but it might make me vomit.  So I'd just like to say that for my part, I think this is a great post, and that we're more than cool.

And ironically, most of the naked people will be men, although there are some brave girls 8)
oh i see how it is now, the men are men but the women are "girls."

that's it, i'm doin' it...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/87/231285009_38157a0633_t.jpg

:\'( :\'( :\'(


Nobody likes me, everybody hates me. Think I'll eat some worms.



Cat

oh i see how it is now, the men are men but the women are "girls."

that's it, i'm doin' it...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/87/231285009_38157a0633_t.jpg


You know, I would never burn one of my bras.  Bras are expensive.

Actually they are doing something called "The Polar Bear Run" where everyone strips and runs across campus for whatever reason...in the cold.  They were going to do it last week but it was like minus-cold out.


The used to do that in the spring at UMass.  I went down tot he Central Quad where it was one year--not to drop trou but to see if I could see any naked girls.  Whether there were or not, I don't know, because the majority descending on the Quad were there like me to gawk and as for the participants, there were more wieners than an Oscar Meyer factory, so I just went back to my dorm and watched the tube (that's the TV, to you and me!).
:P

What this "real life" thing of which you speak?


It's that....thing....that...yeah.



I'm gonna try and start that here in my neighboorhood.


I'd suggest a group hug after this, but it might make me vomit.  So I'd just like to say that for my part, I think this is a great post, and that we're more than cool.


The Mormons would beat you.

No group hugs, but I suggest a mutual sharing of prescription drugs.


:\'( :\'( :\'(


Nobody likes me, everybody hates me. Think I'll eat some worms.



Cat


*insert dirty joke about worms*

You know, I would never burn one of my bras.  Bras are expensive.


I once told some womyn on campus that I was all in favor of women being allowed to walk around topless.  Then I realized that too made me a male chauvinist pig, so I hung my head and walked away.
:(

I once told some womyn on campus that I was all in favor of women being allowed to walk around topless.  Then I realized that too made me a male chauvinist pig, so I hung my head and walked away.
:(


The Mormons would beat them.

I'd suggest a group hug after this, but it might make me vomit.  So I'd just like to say that for my part, I think this is a great post, and that we're more than cool.


Agreed on both counts!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/13/icon_thumright.gif

Season 1, episode 10:

"Is motherhood a cult?"


I don't think it's a cult but it's eerie how similar maternal instincts from different families are...they make you eat, clean up, brush your teeth, go to school, etc...at least if they're halfway competent mothers.

My mother was like the Grand High Wizard Master of Mothercult, she didn't let me get away with crap :P

The Mormons would beat them.




Oh, wait a minute, "womyn" is singular; "wimmin" is plural, I think.  One time one of the "Riot Grrrrls" on campus was hanging a flyer that said "Right now a womyn is being raped, and she didn't ask for it!"  I asked her, "Tell me, you take the 'man' out of 'woman,' but why do you leave the 'he' in 'she'?"  I got the evilest evil eye I ever got!
http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/08/redbite.gif

Word.  And I thought she did a really good job, but then lost by a landslide when she ran for election.  So lame.




Pissed me off.  It's like most of the men around here, especially in the legislature, are afraid of a woman in charge. ::)


Tia, boys have cooties, not girls.  :P

Pissed me off.  It's like most of the men around here, especially in the legislature, are afraid of a woman in charge. ::)




My dad and I saw her at the Pagoda not long after the election, and he just marched right up to her and told her that he thought she did a wonderful job and she should have won.  She was very gracious, and I know his heart was in the right place, but man it was awkward.  I was totally embarrassed! 

My dad and I saw her at the Pagoda not long after the election, and he just marched right up to her and told her that he thought she did a wonderful job and she should have won.  She was very gracious, and I know his heart was in the right place, but man it was awkward.  I was totally embarrassed! 


That would be embarrassing.  He was right, though.  I would have loved to see her elected.

because this thread is the most horrific and disturbing thread about prescription drugs and i simply cannot let it go, i will now post a terrifying youtube video about meds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7aVEJ2O_ms

you're welcome. take the blue one! no, take the red one. jesus, which one was i supposed to take?

I've just read the last pages and...damn that was intense :o

Sometimes i really think you americans are just so paranoid :D

you're welcome. take the blue one! no, take the red one. jesus, which one was i supposed to take?


Red and yellow kill a fellow, green and white up all night...

http://www.inthe00s.com/smile/05/flash.gif

I've just read the last pages and...damn that was intense :o

Sometimes i really think you americans are just so paranoid :D

nah, it's just, we're all freezing!  :o january and february most of the country goes stir crazy.

Season 1, episode 10:

"Is motherhood a cult?"



In what sense?  I've been thinking about this question for awhile, but I need to know what aspects the show was referring to (childbirth, nurturing, hanging out with other mothers, etc.).


Sorry Jess, I missed this question. ;)

Basically, the question was brought up because Carrie went to a baby shower for a woman she used to hang out with, but now that the women is pregnant, she "poo ppo's" on everything that Carrie does now. Jokes are also made at Carrie's expense, and it was said that Carrie will never understand the expectant mother's new crowd because she doesn't have children - she will never fit in.

I personally, think the question is more like "Once pregnancy and child rearing begin, are singles thought of as the enemy?" Kind of like singles will never understand so why even bother including them... :-\\

Season 2, episode 14:

"Are there certain things in a relationship that one should never say?"

Season 2, episode 16:

"Is it better to 'fake it' than to be alone?"

Season 2, episode 19"

"Is it still possible to believe in love at first sight?"

Episode 4:

"Are men in their 20's the new designer drug?"
CATCHING UP ON PAST QUESTIONS



Not interested in a 20's man - I finally have my man housebroke and I do not want to train another ;D

Episode 6:

"How many of us are having sex with people we are ashamed to introduce to our friends?"

So, not necessarily right now, but has it happened in the past?
Not sure if I was ever "ashamed" of introducing anyone to my friends - I just did not see the need.  It was a one night stand (or a couple) but I knew it was not a lasting relationship - so I never felt it was worth the effort of introducing them.  If they would bump into one another, so be it.  Such and such this is my friend ------.  Over and done with.

CALL ME SHALLOW :-[

Season 1, Episode 9

"In a city of great expectations, is it time to settle for what you can get?
Never settle!  But when it is the one, you will know.  I did not get the tall, dark and handsome (metrosexual type - very conscientious of their appearance)- that I always thought I wanted (and I would spend hours prepping for).  I found a guy that I was comfortable with and we could have a good time doing anything (our first "real" date - we put together an entertainment center for my apartment)- I knew he was the one.  We got married 10 months later, and now have now been together 10 years


Maybe I shouldn't have gotten someone I was soo comfortable with - I have left myself goooooo :-\\  OH WELL I LOVE HIM ;D.

Season 1, episode 10:

"Is motherhood a cult?"
Not a "cult" but definitely a "social gathering."  I am not going to expect my single friends to go with me to park to play on the jungle jim (unless they love to be around kids - but some of my single friends have no desire to ever have kids - it would be like pulling their toe nails out) for a play date.  Being a parent, I can not just drop everything to go to a bar, now I can drop everything to go shopping (as long as no one minds that I bring the kids); I can try and get a babysitter, but I may have to turn the offer down if I can not find one (it has nothing to do with me not going, but that I physically cannot leave my children home alone).  With planning I can do anything anyone else can do, or if one does not mind children we can get together.  My children know how to behave in public and they love starbucks, sushi, Chinese, and seafood  ;D

Season 1, episode 11:

"How often is normal?"

~ as in, when it comes to sex and a relationship, how often is normal?
As often as it happens - sometimes not very often, other times not very often, but maybe a year from now - not very ofter ;D ;D ;D

No really, we do it as often as the mood strikes.

Season 2, episode 14:

"Are there certain things in a relationship that one should never say?"
YES!!!!

I can not comment on my husbands terrible knack of gift giving (my first gift on our first christmas - a cheap over the door shoe rack )  Since then a kitchenaid mixer we had no room for, a deep fat fryer - again no room for (the kitchen we were in only had 1 cabinet to put pots and pans and etc... in and a 4 foot counter).  Scrapbooking gift certificate (I do not scrapbook, and I do not have time to - or the kids would mess up my organization and that would bother my OCD). 
I now try and pick out my own - but for once I would love to have a great surprise that he actually thought about.

I made the mistake of commenting on my husbands laundry skills  (I have OCD laundry problems - I HATE STAINS, and I am the master of getting them out).  He does not seperate clothes sufficiently (I seperate into about 9 different groups - whites, pinks/reds, blue jeans, browns, blacks/darks, blues, purples, lights, towels, and bedding) and the colors end up muddled and faded. I read all clothes labels, he does not.  My husband does not even try to do laundry now, as I have "ruined" him. 

Sometimes I just have to keep my mouth shut and take what I get, or he will stop all together. 

I do not talk of past conquests, they were past and it is over, never saw a reason to bring them up (although he was more of a player than I  ;D)...

Yes