amIright Idle was supposed to be a parody of the American Idol freakfest that airs on Fox in the US.  A group of performers try to compete for a number one slot, with three judges offering commentary.  When we tried the first one, we hadn't run many contests on the site at the time, so I don't think I knew enough about how to run a proper parody contest at the time.  I still don't really know what works well for a contest, since I'm usually too busy to notice what's going on with them.

I was thinking of a somewhat similar scheme as last time, but maybe with more established authors from the site this time as judges.  The last time the biggest problem was with one judge who didn't know anything written before 1999 and another who never wrote the reviews after being picked. I also had the judges picking the person to be eliminated, which I don't think I want to repeat either.  Idol works with people calling in votes despite how the judges think.

It would be cool if we had a handful of recent parody authors on the site that wanted to compete instead of opening enrollment to everyone like last time... say people who haven't made 25 or more parodies yet.

I think I tried to pick a subject matter to write on, and then we tried a round with all the same song or something like that.

so any thoughts?

I was talking to Dave about this earlier, and I agree with running this contest 100%.
The details to how we're going to do this will be difficult, but I'm all for it if you can figure a way of doing. The judges were the biggest problem last time, if we can figure that out then I'll be all in.

As the member who described himself at one time in his signature, "The Simon Cowell of Amiright", I am all for this.  ;)

My first question, is there a certain amount of relatively noob authors who are willing to participate? Would an incentive of a tangible prize (amazon gift card for example) be enough to inspire a competition?

Have a number of categorical competitions to eliminate the contestants...perhaps dusting off a Decathlon round or two?

How would the eliminations be done if the judges are ultimately not the decision-makers? PMing or e-mailing an administrator may or may not be less cumbersome than posting votes on the board. Do we trust the participants who are not regulars in this type of thing to be honorable competitors and voters?

I'm happy to be part of any contest...

I wasn't here the last time you tried this. Could someone fill me in ?

How was it run ? What went right ? What went wrong ? Is there a link to the last contest of this sort ?

Sorry for all the questions...

8)

I'm happy to be part of any contest...

I wasn't here the last time you tried this. Could someone fill me in ?

How was it run ? What went right ? What went wrong ? Is there a link to the last contest of this sort ?

Sorry for all the questions...

8)


The last time, I had picked a couple entries, and had people compete to be the judges by writing sample reviews.  I wanted at least one regular who wasn't a regular writer to be a judge, and I ultimately picked the judges based on their written reviews.

Then everyone who wanted to be in the contest submitted parodies trying for the funniest song they could write.  Then the top 8 were picked, and they had to write a song about Christopher Walken, the next round was about the "upcoming 2nd Iraq War".

http://www.amiright.com/parody/idle/

one judge apparently was unfamiliar with anything written before the 90s, such as "These Boots are Made For Walking", and even then didn't offer much of a review when he did know the songs.  One of the judges stopped submitting results, etc.

I made sure to limit the songs to only songs written fresh for the contest, so if someone happened to have something already it wouldn't give them unfair advantage.


The most important part is to have three effective judges, willing to put in some time writing reviews each week.  If we could figure out who would make great judges, it probably doesn't even matter if we limit who competes in some other fashion.

As for the voting, last time it was the judges.  That would certainly work if the judges are good and people want to respect their choices.  Not sure if we can prevent people from trying to stuff the ballot box.  Either that or we would need to restrict votes to other authors not in the contest, and submitted before the contest starts. Not sure how many people that would leave for voting though.

I already have one person who volunteered to be the "Randy" judge. 


As the member who described himself at one time in his signature, "The Simon Cowell of Amiright", I am all for this.  ;)


if I take that as interest in being a "Simon", then I guess we would just need a "Paula".  Any volunteers?  Red Ant perhaps? >grin<

I already have one person who volunteered to be the "Randy" judge. 

if I take that as interest in being a "Simon", then I guess we would just need a "Paula".  Any volunteers?  Red Ant perhaps? >grin<


*I smite thee!*

I'd love to be in this as a judge. If the contests have at least a two week judging period/run time, then count me in. Anything less (like one week) and I may be out of town and miss the round.

Ant

Well I have sent my credentials to be Randy, I am primarily a recording parodist so that tends to be among my judging criteria (how a song sounds as a recording).  I also do have experience as a comedy critic at "Critic's Corner" at Soundclick, at the time I was doing it I was the only 'comedy' oriented critic, I'll probably post some reviews later that I did as further reasoning as to why I'd like to be a judge.  My first parody was "Wind Beneath My Butt" when I was roughly 8 years old :)  (That means I've been technically writing for 17 years, to be 18 years when I turn 26 on April 23rd), but I have grown a lot more in the past year and a half I've been on AmIRight.

I also have suggested making it 12 finalists, with the prior qualifying rounds being done more like the "Hollywood" stages eliminating a roughly even number of contestants per round leading up to that.  If there are less than say 15 entrants, than it'd kinda have to be 8, but I have other ideas to make this contest work too. 

Well I have sent my credentials to be Randy...

We need to send in a résumé for this? lol

Well then:  3+ years on the site, thousands of parodies read, 300+ parodies written, 100+ contests entered and 6 recorded parodies. I'm familiar with most genres of music, and for when I DKTOS I know how to find YouTube. I also successfully auditioned to be a judge in the ill-fated amIright Idle 2.

"Résumé" would make for a killer "Yesterday" title sub...

Ant

LOL Red Ant, Well if You want to be Simon, Agri can be Randy, and I can be Paula--I've got some hockey puck hats that could make me look like her  :)

I am of course completely for this, but I am somewhat concerned about a specific set of requirements resulting in 3 judges that have too much in common to make the competition as fair as possible although that is still better than having judges who neglect certain popular forms of music or the competition altogether. I agree with the AI style elimination process before the finals since going to the finals based primarily on one parody never quite seemed right especially because one shot tryouts greatly increases the likelihood of several finalists finding themselves completely incapable of or unwilling to meet the demands of the later stages of the competition.  As for contestant qualification, anyone and everyone  that isn't judging the competition should be allowed to compete in the audition rounds, and if it's successful then just like in american idol previous finalists wouldn't be allowed back in the competition.

As for working towards a successful competition, I would be happy to participate without any prizes at the end - getting to compete without having judge at the same time is reward enough - but I think participation would rise significantly but not overwhelmingly so if some sort of tangible reward awaited the winner.  A separate site for the contest might help as well.

Are we going to be able to vote on the topics too? Because if we did that last time we really didn't have the luck of the draw... How can you rate 7+ parodies about The 2nd Iraq War, or (Whothehell) Christopher Walken... These two topics I don't think I would be caught dead writing about, simply because these two topics are something I cannot be able to relate to (Except for the first one of course), and even if I could relate to them (the first one for example) how I am supposed to make that work into a good parody. I'm a fan of topic related contests but instead of The 2nd Iraq War you should have went with "Current Events" or instead of Christopher Walken you should have went with "Celebrities", I'm not really asking for much, I just want a contest that I can enjoy and with topics as narrow as that I don't think I'm going to want to participate.

I am of course completely for this, but I am somewhat concerned about a specific set of requirements resulting in 3 judges that have too much in common to make the competition as fair as possible although that is still better than having judges who neglect certain popular forms of music or the competition altogether. I agree with the AI style elimination process before the finals since going to the finals based primarily on one parody never quite seemed right especially because one shot tryouts greatly increases the likelihood of several finalists finding themselves completely incapable of or unwilling to meet the demands of the later stages of the competition.  As for contestant qualification, anyone and everyone  that isn't judging the competition should be allowed to compete in the audition rounds, and if it's successful then just like in american idol previous finalists wouldn't be allowed back in the competition.

As for working towards a successful competition, I would be happy to participate without any prizes at the end - getting to compete without having judge at the same time is reward enough - but I think participation would rise significantly but not overwhelmingly so if some sort of tangible reward awaited the winner.  A separate site for the contest might help as well.


Hmm. . .I do have to ask Ethan, what you mean by three judges with too much in common

Our styles, our song choices, and our opinions are all pretty independent of each other, though we are all friends, but there aren't too many people on the site who I don't consider at the very least on a friendly level. . .

Are we going to be able to vote on the topics too? Because if we did that last time we really didn't have the luck of the draw... How can you rate 7+ parodies about The 2nd Iraq War, or (Whothehell) Christopher Walken... These two topics I don't think I would be caught dead writing about, simply because these two topics are something I cannot be able to relate to (Except for the first one of course), and even if I could relate to them (the first one for example) how I am supposed to make that work into a good parody. I'm a fan of topic related contests but instead of The 2nd Iraq War you should have went with "Current Events" or instead of Christopher Walken you should have went with "Celebrities", I'm not really asking for much, I just want a contest that I can enjoy and with topics as narrow as that I don't think I'm going to want to participate.


It's supposed to be a challenge, isn't it?  It doesn't make much sense for contestants to pick their own categories...there would never be complete agreement anyway.

Hmm. . .I do have to ask Ethan, what you mean by three judges with too much in common

Our styles, our song choices, and our opinions are all pretty independent of each other, though we are all friends, but there aren't too many people on the site who I don't consider at the very least on a friendly level. . .


Mostly because all 3 of you are writers...in AI despite it being a singing competition only one of the judges has much experience singing.  I think there are a bunch of inthe00s members who know a lot about music and appreciate parodies but don't necessarily write them...but if none of them are willing to judge then 3 writers who are not likely to dismiss parodies of popular songs with DKTOS or abandon the competition might be the best way to go.

It's supposed to be a challenge, isn't it?  It doesn't make much sense for contestants to pick their own categories...there would never be complete agreement anyway.


Is regular AI a challange? No, people pick normal songs and sing them on national TV. We're picking normal parodies and parodying them for a contest. Where's the challange in the real AI anyways? And having a challange is different than picking two horrible topics and having all the contestants write about them, it's still supposed to be fun.

First of all, the Iraq war may be a horrible event but it's not a horrible topic especially back in the days of the original american idle when it was relatively new.  Chris Walken certainly could have been a challenge and may have seemed pointless - but if you ever want to make parody writing more than a hobby which I'm sure quite a few of us here would like to do then writing seemingly pointless parodies would be good practice for when a client wants something written about something that you don't care about.

And yeah, real american idol is very challenging.  Sometimes they get to sing beatles songs or elton john songs, but did you see Stevie Wonder week?  Queen week?  Songs by those artists are not easy to sing well no matter how good you are.

First of all, the Iraq war may be a horrible event but it's not a horrible topic especially back in the days of the original american idle when it was relatively new.  Chris Walken certainly could have been a challenge and may have seemed pointless - but if you ever want to make parody writing more than a hobby which I'm sure quite a few of us here would like to do then writing seemingly pointless parodies would be good practice for when a client wants something written about something that you don't care about.

And yeah, real american idol is very challenging.  Sometimes they get to sing beatles songs or elton john songs, but did you see Stevie Wonder week?  Queen week?  Songs by those artists are not easy to sing well no matter how good you are.


True enough... I guess a few advertising companies will need song parodies at their control (The only one I could remember using them however is TGI Fridays, and doing parodies about food are already easy enough), but I digress... I'll still be willing to participate in this contest, and I agree that there has been problems in the past with topics being too open for debate, and those topics would not be that open for debate because they're very direct. So I guess this could work, and I'll still be able to participate in it, but hopefully the topics are something that I can relate to in the slightest (Like I'm sure that people writing from Austrailia don't give a flip about our American-Iraq war for example, although the might it still wouldn't hit home for them the way it would for Americans or Iraqis, and who the hell is Christopher Walken anyways? That kinda parody you probably wouldn't want to record, because it wouldn't appeal to very many people (The only people it would appeal to are the people who know who Christopher Walken is) So doing a recording of that would be pointless.

I agree with it being challanging, but I also agree with it being for fun (That's why we write parodies right?). So I'm currently pending on entering with topics like these I probably will not enter, but if they're something I can relate to I'll be all for entering in this competition.

Mostly because all 3 of you are writers...in AI despite it being a singing competition only one of the judges has much experience singing.  I think there are a bunch of inthe00s members who know a lot about music and appreciate parodies but don't necessarily write them...but if none of them are willing to judge then 3 writers who are not likely to dismiss parodies of popular songs with DKTOS or abandon the competition might be the best way to go.


I see what you are saying BUT, Simon is a producer and Co-Founder of a dance group, and Randy is also a bassist singer and producer, Paula is just the most famous singer, but all three have expierience in the field singing, producing and in the music biz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Jackson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Cowell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Abdul

So by having non-parodist, we'd actually be different from AI as all three were involved in actual groups.

As for voting, I think that like american idol it should be up to the judges up until the finals and then voting should be open to all inthe00s members who are active members of the site and not just recent members who don't do anything except vote for a friend that recruited them. But making that distinction seems potentially time consuming so maybe there's another way to make sure votes are legit.

As for voting, I think that like american idol it should be up to the judges up until the finals and then voting should be open to all inthe00s members who are active members of the site and not just recent members who don't do anything except vote for a friend that recruited them. But making that distinction seems potentially time consuming so maybe there's another way to make sure votes are legit.


I'm pretty sure Red Ant, Below Average Dave, and Agrimorfee are pretty much the most honest voters we have in the contests. There are a few (not mentioning any names) people who you know can't really be voting accuratly, because they usually vote the same way whether or not the song actually deserves it. While I'm friends with both Red Ant, and Below Average Dave over the phone and have meet both of them already in person I know that they're honest enough not to give me points when I don't deserve them. Agrimorfee too is a very honest person when it comes to voting. Sure we're going to have our "favorite" parodists, but when it comes down to it, and knowing the basis of the contest I have faith in all 3 of these people to give honest feedback, and accurate pointage.

The Christopher Walken subject was picked in hopes Fark.com might want to link to it (which would bring a bunch of traffic to the site).  Also I knew there weren't any parodies about him on the site, so no one would have an unfair advantage.

As for comparisons to the real AI, well, I kind of think the show stinks and think we can do something better for the website, more oriented to parodies.  So we don't need to look too hard at what they do.  The basic structure is close enough.  I think there should be some theme or challenge for most rounds.  Maybe not a particular subject, but at least a particular performer.  You think Weird Al really listens to hip hop on a regular basis?  Or the current AI folks even know who the Beatles are (considering how badly they butchered their songs, I doubt it).  My only suggestions would maybe be a round where a well known performer is picked and used, and then a round where you pick one of the amIright big 7 to write.

As for a non-parody author judge, I would only consider someone if they wrote a lot of comments on the site for existing parodies.  After what happened last time I don't want a repeat performance.

I don't think the contests are going to be all planned out in advance, I'm thinking one week to write it once it's revealed.  I'm also going to let the judges run everything once we determine who the judges should be.  I'm fine with the first three volunteers for the judge positions if you guys all want to do it.  I seem to have the touch of death when it comes to contests, so I'm going to totally remove myself from the process once you guys agree to do it.

Another thought: as a reward, someone could record the winning parody so the writer has his work really come to life. The only problem I see with that is for a recording to work, the pacing has to be a solid 5, and having those who do not judge parodies everyday vote for their favorite may result in a winning parody that is unsingable, or has to be somewhat rewritten to perform well, which defeats the whole point of the competition.

I do like Ethan's idea of getting non-parodists to vote and/or participate. There are quite a few inthe00s.com members that like parodies and have extensive knowledge of music. Having non-parodists judge also eliminates any backlash for giving less than glowing reviews.  ;D Getting them to participate may be difficult, as will be drawing in new participants.

As for Dave, Aggy and I having too much in common, I don't see it. Sure, we all write, but our music tastes, sense of humor and parody direction are usually quite different from one another. Our voting consistency (as far as not being DQed) is nearly flawless between the three of us. Even though I frequently rag on new music (and the old), I still listen to it and give it a chance. Much of Dave's catalog is of newer music and especially hits, and I believe Aggy also is quite fond of newer music as well.

Ant

Ok, I'm convinced that it may be best in this case to have 3 parody writers as judges, you just have to be thorough enough with your elimination round critiques to make it clear that no one is getting preferential treatment due to friendship or potential future contest voting. I agree with the recording for the winner - real musician (robert lund?) treatment - with some sort of reward for the other finalists as well although a professional recording would probably be too much to ask on a virtually (if not completely) nonexistent budget.  But finalists should definitely get top priority for recordings by BADave or anyone else here willing to record songs written by other people.

Ok, I'm convinced that it may be best in this case to have 3 parody writers as judges, you just have to be thorough enough with your elimination round critiques to make it clear that no one is getting preferential treatment due to friendship or potential future contest voting. I agree with the recording for the winner - real musician (robert lund?) treatment - with some sort of reward for the other finalists as well although a professional recording would probably be too much to ask on a virtually (if not completely) nonexistent budget.  But finalists should definitely get top priority for recordings by BADave or anyone else here willing to record songs written by other people.


I dunno, I'm sure that Dave will be willing to record the winner, but I highly doubt we can get Robert Lund to do it, and if I say so myself some of Dave's recordings are equal in greatness to Robert Lund's collection. I also agree with the recording, but we got to work with what we can. The Robert Lund thing would be cool, but I highly doubt that we're going to get that, because I don't know him to do anything except for Spaff's work. I don't think the runner's up should get anything unless we're talking about a Top 3 recorded parody work here.

If it hasn't already be inferred, I'd be willing to sit in as a judge. :)

It sounds like a good idea for a comp. I thought it could run something like this:-

AUDITIONS:- Anyone who is eligable can enter their Parody, to a basic very comercial song (a couple of verses and a couple of choruses)
Then the judges could pick the ones they think are good enough (your going to Hollywood dog!)

1rst round The Judges set a song they all agree on. Then the remaining contestants submit their parody by the dead-line.
The Judges pass comment and give them a mark out of five (as in SOTM), they don't have to agree. As in AI the judges say what they think. Then open up the voting to who ever would like to vote (the public), providing they leave a comment  on each Parody. The lowest scoring parody being eliminated.
Carrying on till there are three contestants left.

The Final The Judges pick One of the more difficult songs to parody (Be our Guest, Bohemian Rhapsody). The contestants do their business.
Then the voting for the final. The Judges make their comments and give their marks, but they have to agree a final order 1rst, 2nd and 3rd.
1rst=5pts, 2nd=3pts and 3rd=1pt.
Then the public vote and the parody that gets the best point total gets 5, 2nd gets 3 and 3rd gets 1.
If it's a tie then either the Judges vote will be the winner or the parody that got the most 5s in the public vote.

What do think?
Feel free to pick as many holes as you would like to. :)

It sounds like a good idea for a comp. I thought it could run something like this:-

AUDITIONS:- Anyone who is eligable can enter their Parody, to a basic very comercial song (a couple of verses and a couple of choruses)
Then the judges could pick the ones they think are good enough (your going to Hollywood dog!)

1rst round The Judges set a song they all agree on. Then the remaining contestants submit their parody by the dead-line.
The Judges pass comment and give them a mark out of five (as in SOTM), they don't have to agree. As in AI the judges say what they think. Then open up the voting to who ever would like to vote (the public), providing they leave a comment  on each Parody. The lowest scoring parody being eliminated.
Carrying on till there are three contestants left.

The Final The Judges pick One of the more difficult songs to parody (Be our Guest, Bohemian Rhapsody). The contestants do their business.
Then the voting for the final. The Judges make their comments and give their marks, but they have to agree a final order 1rst, 2nd and 3rd.
1rst=5pts, 2nd=3pts and 3rd=1pt.
Then the public vote and the parody that gets the best point total gets 5, 2nd gets 3 and 3rd gets 1.
If it's a tie then either the Judges vote will be the winner or the parody that got the most 5s in the public vote.

What do think?
Feel free to pick as many holes as you would like to. :)



According to Round 1's rules the number of rounds is proportionate to the number of contestants... If we have a lot of people involved this could be a really long contest if we just get rid of one person per round. I think we should get rid of two per round in case a lot of people are interested in this, if we don't have a big turn out I'll still say one per round. And "Be Our Guest" is one of the easiest of the Big 7... I would rather see the final contestants show their power with "Blinded By The Light" or "Major-Modern General" (Much harder songs from The Big 7) Or some songs from the Epic 40 like "One Week", or "It's The End Of The World As We Know It". 

Oh, and by commercial song are you actually talking about Commercial Jingles? Or a song that has got plenty of radio time and is short and sweet like Green Day's "Time Of Your Life" for example.

These type of details will be worked out when the contest gets ready to start.

Song choice will also depend a lot on what the prizes are going to be.

Some of the "Epic 7" would be very difficult to be recorded, I saw my name mentioned for that--there are details that would have to be worked out with me and Chucky for that to happen, though I would be willing to do it if those details can be worked out.  The Big 7 includes some pretty ancient songs, and I'm not looking to make everyone do the same song in any round (Even my favorite songs can get boring)

And again the Hollywood rounds would narrow it down to the finalists (I mean if there are a lot of people)  The one elimination per round is pretty much the goal here no matter how many people join in, but the first few rounds if there are a lot of people will be multi-elimination rounds.

Agri, it has been inferred, and from the looks of it you are playing Randy dawg:)  I'm Paula and Ant's Simon.

I am kinda excited to do this, but some details about how it will work do have to be worked out.

As we kinda determined, opening to public voting when we aren't really heavily visited by public could result in a winner that is not-recordable.  What people find funny may not pace or work as a recording, and if a collection wins because of public votes that can't be recorded, that could create a problem. . .but these are things that could and should be discussed at length, as we form the rules and awards and such. . .like I said on the prospect of me recording the winner's songs that brought him/her to the Idol podium would be something that would have to be worked out between me and Chucky.

I think this is going to be big regardless of these little details if we stick to it and come up with a good, but reasonable prize.

That's a good point... If we're going to have a recording as the main prize a few of the Big 7 won't work due to the lack of backing tracks. We're probably going to have to go with mostly commercial songs if that's what the Big Prize will be. I know that I haven't found a "Major-Modern General" backing track or a "Fitzgerald" backing track anywhere.

And when exactly are we going to run this competition?

and who the hell is Christopher Walken anyways?
To be honest, I had no real idea of who he was when Chucky came up with the subject, but ended up writing three about the chap (at the time, he had ninety-three parts listed in IMDb).. not knowing much about a subject shouldn't be a limiting factor.  But the stuff I found out about his career I gained in researching has been great, especially when I've seen him in something like Hairspray (when I can sound all knowledgeable).

While part of me quite fancies being a judge, I'm not sure I'd have the time to do it properly; and I reckon Dave, Agrimofee and Red Ant would be an ideal triumvirate (unless someone can convince Merry, Arwen and/or one of the other female authors: the various TV Idol shows always seem to manage to have one or more)

I reckon Dave, Agrimofee and Red Ant would be an ideal triumvirate (unless someone can convince Merry, Arwen and/or one of the other female authors: the various TV Idol shows always seem to manage to have one or more)


Absolutely...we need a Paula!  ;D  (thanks for the compliment, Phil  8))

That's a good point... If we're going to have a recording as the main prize a few of the Big 7 won't work due to the lack of backing tracks. We're probably going to have to go with mostly commercial songs if that's what the Big Prize will be. I know that I haven't found a "Major-Modern General" backing track or a "Fitzgerald" backing track anywhere.

And when exactly are we going to run this competition?


I think I have an edmund fitzgerald backing track on my father's computer but I don't think it's very good.  I think that once the choices for judges are finalized and Chucky makes a prominent announcement on amiright so that writers who may not visit the bards often have a chance to join, the competition should start in a week.

Can any updates about this be expected in the near future?

The contest rules and prizes have been worked out - Dave will post the first entry thread on Monday.

Ant

The contest rules and prizes have been worked out - Dave will post the first entry thread on Monday.

Ant


I hope you're right...Monday's close to over

I hope you're right...Monday's close to over


I have faith in Dave to post the thread

(Simply because... I have his phone number and I can bother him into posting it!)  ;D

For those who have been waiting with antici..................
pation,  :)

please see http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=32272.0.