A recent comment i receieved has made me start this rthread asking you all how you get your pacing on your parodies

I got a load of Bull fomr this guy saying by my pacing was bad when i have  one of the most foolproof ways of beating the pacing.

I drag up the lyrcs on my browser while i'm writing my parody and refer to itwghen ever i'm riting my songs

this way i get all the sylables n paing correct

im shocked this guy had the ordacity to say such a thing and that he should relaly start using his ears,

But just because the syllable count fits does not mean the pacing is correct.  The way some syllables are emphasised in a word changes how they fit into a line when you are singing it.

Why not put a link to the parody in question, then we can all take a look?

http://amiright.com/parody/2000s/greenday169.shtml

also, people have to listen to the song original song a listen to how a beat is sung or the length the artistee puts on it,i often also go along with that aswell

http://amiright.com/parody/2000s/greenday169.shtml

also, people have to listen to the song original song a listen to how a beat is sung or the length the artistee puts on it,i often also go along with that aswell


I DKTOS right now so I can't say if the pacing is off.

The way I do it is download the lyrics onto a Notepad, save, then MODIFY the lyrics while listening to TOS (sometimes in short increments) to make sure they are complete, in the proper order and put commas where breaks are, periods after carried syllables (using more for longer notes) and CAPS for stressed/loud/high pitch words/notes, parentheses for background vocals and include where the instrumental/solo parts are.

After all that is done (which can take considerable time), THEN I open up a second document and start writing the parody. I do not further modify the "Modified Original Lyrics" nor write the parody on the same document.

When I finish the parody I play TOS and make sure the pacing on the parody is close to perfect by karaoking it.

Also, I save the modified lyrics in case I want to parody that OS again.

wat do u mean by a period?, thats a big problem im having (not in that way), ppl keep telling me my pacings off wen a note is held for a longer beat n stuff

wat do u mean by a period?, thats a big problem im having (not in that way), ppl keep telling me my pacings off wen a note is held for a longer beat n stuff


Well, if a certain word is held or carried for a while I put periods after it, the more denoting more time the note is held. I usually put 3 periods but have put several more at times. Like if a singer sings "yeah" and carries that note a while, it might look like this:

Yeah.......

I can't give you a more specific example though unless I know TOS though.

http://amiright.com/parody/2000s/greenday169.shtml

also, people have to listen to the song original song a listen to how a beat is sung or the length the artistee puts on it,i often also go along with that aswell


Um, even from your first line the pacing is off. 'realbigcelebrity' does not pace with 'American Idiot'.
I'm assuming you're a young writer from your mobile-phone-like spelling et al, so persevere, persevere, persevere and eventually pacing will become second nature.

notice that there is no space, it ment to be sed as a fast wohle word

and the whole line mtaches though, it should reall;y be, ARealBigCelebrity

The easiest thing to do is to count the syllables of the OS and of your creation, line by line.

I don't care about how the original singer accented it before, because sometimes that's all a matter of song interpretation (cf. Ella Fitzgerald or Tony Bennett).

THats what I do

I think a big problem for pl giving people giving ppl low oacing marks is that people don't understand how the author was interpreting the song

notice that there is no space, it ment to be sed as a fast wohle word

and the whole line mtaches though, it should reall;y be, ARealBigCelebrity



it's still off though.

Another thing people base pacing on is how well it rhymes with the OS and how much it repeats, etc.

This is a really interesting topic for discussion. I try to make every writer's pacing work, even when it doesn't seem to, because I know that in the head of the writer it must have worked, even if it's not syllable-count perfect. Nobody deliberately puts in a line that doesn't pace - no regular anyway - although some newbies might

If you can get the perfect line with perfect syllable count, that's ideal of course.

But if you can't, which way do you jump? to the less-than-perfect line with perfect syllable count? or to the perfect line with incorrect syllable count (that still paces in a karaoke sense of course, and has the correct number of stressed syllables)

I always go for the latter - my rule is that if you can karaoke it easily, the pacing's fine, so go for the perfect line.

eg. I once parodied "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head" about a dumb-ass whiny kid who's fighting Mike Tyson

I used "Mi-chael keeps Hitting-Me In The Head" over "Mi-chael keeps beating on my head" because it sounded funnier and more pathetic, which was what I was after, although it was the second option that had the correct syllable count.

I know others would've gone for the second one, though, so it's a subjective choice, and I don't think pacing should be docked when it's a subjective choice.

Another example is "50 ways To Leave Your Lover" Everyone knows the tune, so I believe it should be parodied to the tune, not to the syllables of Paul Simon's often-conversationally-rhythmed lines, because writing a syllable-count-perfect line in this case leaves a messy read for those who don't know the OS by heart, and hard for those readers to make work (unless they has the OS in the background as a syllable-stressing guide)

I think giving the majority of readers an easy intuitive read (using ANY tricks: punctuation, capitals, spaces, dots) should be a priority, because it then allows them to enjoy the parody unhindered by pacing stumbles.

I used "Mi-chael keeps Hitting-Me In The Head" over "Mi-chael keeps beating on my head" because it sounded funnier and more pathetic, which was what I was after, although it was the second option that had the correct syllable count.

I think giving the majority of readers an easy intuitive read (using ANY tricks: punctuation, capitals, spaces, dots) should be a priority, because it then allows them to enjoy the parody unhindered by pacing stumbles.


I agree with using punctuation to assist in the reading process. However, I am a pacing fiend and would rather not do the parody than do a 'Hitting-Me In The Head' one. Don't get me wrong, it sounds funny when singing it, but... I dunno, mispacing so blatantly just grates my nerves like when a shovel hits rock. Or corrugated iron is dragged across cement. Or you see someone directly bite into a frozen paddle pop. Or reciving the same damn forwarded 'sympathy spam'-for-two-little-boys-who-were-murdered-this-time-last-year-so-forward-this-on-in-their-memory-or-you're-a-heartless-swine from twelve different people in your address book.

...but by all means, to each his own.

bad pacing grates on me also (although not as much as someone biting into a frozen paddle-pop) - which is why I chose that example.  In the OS of Raindrops, "fall-ing" is drawn out, so there's easily enough time to squeeze "hitting-me" (note the hyphen tells you to say it as one quick word) in, and there's only one stressed syllable in both, so it works karaoke-style

but you're not alone in your dissent and I remember suffering badly with my pacing score for that parody, and admittedly I try to avoid finding myself in the "do I turn right or do I turn left?" dilemm  (although I'd still turn left if I had to)

Good point Stu about the karaoke ability of a piece; last month in a contest there was one entry I couldn't get to scan right to TOS but it paced perfectly to the MIDI, so they got the 555 instead of 455.

Josh, all of the tricks mentioned take some time to get the hang of, and since lyrics sheets almost never include such notations as periods, hyphens, parentheses, caps, etc the only way I know is to do it by ear and write down a close approximation of what you hear. You might not want to mess with all of that for now, just write the words and hope the reader can follow them.


I think giving the majority of readers an easy intuitive read (using ANY tricks: punctuation, capitals, spaces, dots) should be a priority, because it then allows them to enjoy the parody unhindered by pacing stumbles.


Agreed. It just takes some practice.

I don't know, I've gotten much tighter pacing my own parodies recently though I have to remember my first ones that I THOUGHT were perfect-lol- they are awful compared to what I would do now with the same OS.

Of course, humor might override me docking pacing; I don't want to read pacing exercises all of the time (not that I think that is all authors try to do, mind you), I want to laugh (or see something thought-provoking, heartfelt etc).

Some things just cannot work though, putting in a 2 or 4 syllable word as the opening line for "Yesterday" won't work, neither would a word like "Demonic", all 3 syllable stresses are bass ackwards from "Yesterday".

I agree with using punctuation to assist in the reading process. However, I am a pacing fiend and would rather not do the parody than do a 'Hitting-Me In The Head' one. Don't get me wrong, it sounds funny when singing it, but... I dunno, mispacing so blatantly just grates my nerves like when a shovel hits rock. Or corrugated iron is dragged across cement. Or you see someone directly bite into a frozen paddle pop. Or reciving the same damn forwarded 'sympathy spam'-for-two-little-boys-who-were-murdered-this-time-last-year-so-forward-this-on-in-their-memory-or-you're-a-heartless-swine from twelve different people in your address book.

...but by all means, to each his own.


Or sitting by, idly, while someone misspells "receiving."

I. HATE. THAT.

Anyway, back the subject. Pacing is IT to me. If something doesn't pace well...it's just not as funny. There is no such thing, in my opinion, as a 354 parody. A three on pacing brings that funny score down, kids. I've done a 455 before. But it's rare.

And it's pretty clear now, that Stuart is a nicer person than I am. I don't believe in "trying" too hard to make someone's pacing work. If I have to try...(at least in cases where I know the song very well...perhaps I may even have it on my Billboard Hits of 1981 CD)...it's not working.

And that's great if it works for the author...but it still doesn't work for me. And I'm not going to 5 it and say that it does.

NONE OF THIS, however, means that I'm knocking anyone as a writer. It just means that I couldn't pace that particular song. It happens every once in a while. I think, to all of us. I always think my pacing is perfect...I won't submit it if it isn't...but sometimes there are people who can't pace the parody...and they give it a 4 or a 3...and that's that. I might whine about it...(because I'm really good at whining)...but I know it's reality.

In this case, I don't know the OS...so I can't file an opinon on Josh's parody...but it's pretty likely (having read the opinions of those who do know the OS) that if I DID know it, I'd be one of the ballsy beasts who dared to challenge his pacing. It's just kind of what I do.

Sorry.

What in the HELL is up with all the nbsp stuff?

the nbsp comes in when you double space - I just figured it out today

and when you modify it by deleting one of the spaces, it seems to depend on which one you delete

the nbsp comes in when you double space - I just figured it out today

and when you modify it by deleting one of the spaces, it seems to depend on which one you delete




Thanks for the head's up. Basically, in order to avoid nbsps, I'm going to have to type grammatically incorrectly all the time? It's never going to work.

I feel like crying.

I feel like crying.



we're talking "fighting the good anti-nbsp fight" sweetheart - no place for tears 8)

I agree with Arwen.  I always use a doubel space after a full stop - in fact I just used one

??? hmm - and no nsbp - the plot thickens - maybe deleting the second space in a modification corrects a problem not to do with the second space

the nbsp comes in when you double space - I just figured it out today

and when you modify it by deleting one of the spaces, it seems to depend on which one you delete




I wondered if that's what it was

Josh...I read your parody, and Luke's right; the pacing' off from the first line:

I wa/nna be an A/MER/i/can i/di/ot (12 syllables with stress on MER)
I wa/nna be a real/big/ce/leb/ri/ty (11 syllables)
What you could have done is this:
I wa/nna be a rea/LLY big ce/le/bri/ty (right number of syllables, but a bit awkward)
or even
I wa/nna be an e/NORM/ous ce/le/bri/ty (perfect pacing)

If I have a word i want to use, but it has too few or too many syllables to fit, I go to rhymezone.com, put in my word, and go to "find synonyms"...more often than not it will bring up a word that means the same thing but fits better e.g. enormous for realbig
Hope this helps

perfect Kristof - well done

Now all we need is for josh to say that it's really celeberity

;)

Single spacing is grammatically incorrect?


It is grammatically correct to space twice after a period.

It is grammatically correct to space twice after a period.



yes, but is it grammatically correct to say "Your's made me cry" ?

hmm?

j/k ;)

yes, but is it grammatically correct to say "Your's made me cry" ?

hmm?

j/k ;)




Did I honestly type that?

sheesh!

Did I honestly type that?

sheesh!

Josh...I read your parody, and Luke's right; the pacing' off from the first line:

I wa/nna be an A/MER/i/can i/di/ot (12 syllables with stress on MER)
I wa/nna be a real/big/ce/leb/ri/ty (11 syllables)
What you could have done is this:
I wa/nna be a rea/LLY big ce/le/bri/ty (right number of syllables, but a bit awkward)
or even
I wa/nna be an e/NORM/ous ce/le/bri/ty (perfect pacing)

If I have a word i want to use, but it has too few or too many syllables to fit, I go to rhymezone.com, put in my word, and go to "find synonyms"...more often than not it will bring up a word that means the same thing but fits better e.g. enormous for realbig

sopz

but now this is just mean

http://www.amiright.com/parody/2000s/greenday172.shtml

ok i admit that it wasnt all that great and that i was seriously tired and thathe dude wasnt in my head when i wrote it. but giving me 1's, anyone know this guy?
Hope this helps


*various fit of bad words that can't be put on here. NOW I REMEMBER WHAT I DID DAMNIT.  A FREKIN PAUSE AFTER BIG. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH

This is a really interesting topic for discussion. I try to make every writer's pacing work...

blah, blah, blah...]



What he said. Good post, StuMc. More art than science, this pacing thing.  That's why one often can't legitimately claim they've been unfairly scored. It's your responsibility as a writer to basically make it idiot-proof or suffer the consequences.

Another example is "50 ways To Leave Your Lover" Everyone knows the tune, so I believe it should be parodied to the tune, not to the syllables of Paul Simon's often-conversationally-rhythmed lines, because writing a syllable-count-perfect line in this case leaves a messy read for those who don't know the OS by heart, and hard for those readers to make work (unless they has the OS in the background as a syllable-stressing guide)

As it happens, I have parodied "50 Ways" a few times, but there are songs I've decided not to parody precisely because the rambling or conversational pacing of the OS might make it difficult for the reader to know how the stresses should fall. In fact, I might go so far as to say that anytime I find that I need to meticulously count the number of syllables in each line of the OS in order to write the parody, I can't really expect the reader to be able to easily make sense of it. I realize that some people (bless their hearts) actually take the time to compare the text of the OS to the text of the parody in order to judge the parody 'fairly' -- that's either extraordinarily conscientious of them or extraordinarily anal, I'm not sure which. ;) To me, the reader really shouldn't have to do any 'work' in order to 'get' it. If you're writing a parody for performance purposes, that's a whole other ballgame, but when you're expecting it to be fully appreciated just as written, the burden on you as a writer is greater. But hey, we thrive on challenge, right?


Thanks for the head's up. Basically, in order to avoid nbsps, I'm going to have to type grammatically incorrectly all the time? It's never going to work.

I feel like crying.


Double-spacing after a period is not a 'grammar' issue -- it's a typesetting convention.  Duh.
::)

yes, but is it grammatically correct to say "Your's made me cry" ?

hmm?

j/k ;)



No. Eliminate the apostrophe and you would be gramatically correct.

wats dis nbsp malarcy?

and is it just my opinion, or should 1's get there IP blocked from now-on or for at least a few days or week or sumin

i spent ages writing a aprody of Jesus of SUburbia (seriously long, 9 mins). n this guy gives me 1's

if he dont like my work then thats ok, ubt ones just houldnt be accepted

http://www.amiright.com/parody/2000s/greenday172.shtml

wats dis nbsp malarcy?

and is it just my opinion, or should 1's get there IP blocked from now-on or for at least a few days or week or sumin

i spent ages writing a aprody of Jesus of SUburbia (seriously long, 9 mins). n this guy gives me 1's

if he dont like my work then thats ok, ubt ones just houldnt be accepted

http://www.amiright.com/parody/2000s/greenday172.shtml


It's just you.

I don't like 1s any more than the next person, but if you eliminate them, then 2s would just be new 1s, and you'd be upset about getting them. You'd really not be eliminating any kind of problem.

And you really need to stop taking the votes you receive so seriously. If you're happy with what you've written, then that's what is really important. You'll never be able to please everyone...and if you got 5s all the time, how would you know that people were really being sincere?

I love my stuff. I wouldn't submit it if I didn't think it deserved 5s...(trust me, I have a lot of unsubmitted stuff)...but humor is so subjective...and apparently, so is pacing to some people...so I can't expect everyone to agree with me all the time.

What he said. Good post, StuMc. More art than science, this pacing thing.  That's why one often can't legitimately claim they've been unfairly scored. It's your responsibility as a writer to basically make it idiot-proof or suffer the consequences.




Warning: essay follows (the opinions expressed herein are only those of the author)

exactly right, Leo, and you nailed it with the art/science thing.  Obviously we all agree bad pacing ruins a parody (and the parody that this thread originated from does contain bad pacing, as Luke pointed out)

But the point of perfect pacing is to give the reader an effortless read (an art) not a syllable-perfect one (a science).

This is so the reader’s brain can enjoy the words undistracted, and sometimes, contradictorily, this may actually require an INcorrect syllable count.

It’s not hard to write lines with the right amount of syllables, but that doesn’t ensure good pacing.  Kristof demonstrated that beautifully above by writing a syllable-correct line, that needed the second syllable of “really” to be stressed, which is bad pacing, because intuitively the reader would never stress that syllable.  If stressing the LY is the only way of getting an otherwise perfect line to work, the writer should throw the reader a bone by capitalising the LY, or using a hyphen, or a line break, etc.

Good pacing requires that 99% of readers correctly stress each syllable intuitively, and don’t notice pacing.  (a bit like how good refereeing means the referees aren’t noticed)

There are 3 types of readers: the DKTOSes, the KTOSes out for enjoyment, and the KTOSes out to syllable-count.

With a song like “50 Ways” if you satisfy the third group you risk losing the first group, and vice versa, which is why it’s a hard song to do.

To please all three groups (which we’re all trying to do) sometimes you have to phrase a line sneakily so it reads well for the DKTOSes without raising the shackles of the KTOSes(syllables)

Spaff always seems to be able to do it  -  for a good example of bullet-proof pacing see http://www.amiright.com/parody/60s/julieandrewsmarypoppins6.shtml                 

And by “sneakily” I mean tricks have to be used, like replacing a leading unstressed, syllable-correct, “but” with "...." just to prevent the 25% of readers from incorrectly emphasising “but” and throwing the rest of the line out.

And 25% WILL stress it wrongly because stressing is certainly subjective   

eg. take a line like “And Just Go There...”
If those words are read on their own, equal numbers of readers would intuitively emphasise Just, Go, or There.  But when you finish the line with  “...to the Y.M.C.A” people who know the OS realise the 'Go' has to be emphasised, although people who DKTOS wouldn’t

The point of pacing is to remove ALL ambiguity from how the line is stressed, and hopefully this will also mean correct syllable count. 

One syllable rule is definitely unbreakable though – the amount of stressed syllables, and trailing syllables must ALWAYS be exact to the OS.

Also Leo, I take your point that written parodies must keep the reader in mind, while performed parodies keep the listener in mind, so I admit I chose a bad example in my previous post.  My “Hitting-Me/Falling” sub WAS written with listeners in mind, not readers, and so deserved to be shafted on pacing by readers.

thankyou readers, thankyou ballboys :)