Welcome to the archived messages from In The 00s. This archive stretches back to 1998 in some instances, and contains a nearly complete record of all the messages posted to inthe00s.com. You will also find an archive of the messages from inthe70s.com, inthe80s.com, inthe90s.com and amiright.com before they were combined to form the inthe00s.com messageboard.
If you are looking for the active messages, please click here. Otherwise, use the links below or on the right hand side of the page to navigate the archives.
Subject: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
I don't have to tell you there's some awesome talent on this site. Many of us have been placed in the Wierd Al league, so what's stopping us producing and selling albums like him?
I'd like to hear some discussion of the legalities- who we'd have to get permission from, etc.
Chucky- if we could navigate the minefield, what about a best of amiright album?
Spaff- you're probably the most experienced of us in this area. Any thoughts?
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
my limited vocal ability and complete lack of being able to play an instrument are definitely a problem... if only i could find my own Robert Lund.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Haha... yeah, I don't have the first problem but do have the second. You'll notice, therefore, my attempt at a capella ;-). But a capellaing by ones self is rather difficult to get right, and most songs don't acapellaize well anyway.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
I don't play an instrument, but I can sing loud and on-key - in other words, I've got a good voice for musical comedy and rock-'n-roll, but not for serious choral music or operatic-type stuff... I'm basically a loud clown!
So, if a loud and funny voice is called-for, my vocal ego will be delighted to step up to the plate, step onto the plate, and smash the plate into little pieces. ;D ;D ;D
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Well Mari and I have plenty of experience doing recordings. Plus the musical chops to play a lot of styles, we've been doing that for years. What we don't have is business savvy and marketing skills. Anybody wants to visit us here and record is welcome to. (Bob Gomez may do that soon) I have discussed with Phil A. the idea of doing basic tracks to a given song for anyone to download and record over. That would be pretty limiting. We'd be willing to record more Amiright tributes, but we're not sure what would become of it then. Almost everything we do is for our own amusement, not with any schemes of profit. I listen to any ideas people have, and if we can help someone here long distance, let us know.
Subject: RAD and MAD are the REAL DEAL, folks!
Quoting:
Well Mari and I have plenty of experience doing recordings. Plus the musical chops to play a lot of styles, we've been doing that for years. What we don't have is business savvy and marketing skills. Anybody wants to visit us here and record is welcome to. (Bob Gomez may do that soon) I have discussed with Phil A. the idea of doing basic tracks to a given song for anyone to download and record over. That would be pretty limiting. We'd be willing to record more Amiright tributes, but we're not sure what would become of it then. Almost everything we do is for our own amusement, not with any schemes of profit. I listen to any ideas people have, and if we can help someone here long distance, let us know.
End Quote
Rick and Mari did some wonderful long distance musical work with me recently. It was a totally positive experience in every way. I highly and gladly recommend RAD & MAD as musical consultants and collaborators.
Johnny D
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
I have no doubt there is enough talent at the site, to produce a commercial success!
The problem is , without the backing of a record label, and our own limited resources, such as :Need for capitol investments and Business marketing skills in the recording industry. This seems to hinder turning this hobby of ours, into a lucrative business. I think Edison said it best about success " 1% insiration and 99% perspiration" This would take dedication, time and effort to get a collective effort, such as this, off the ground.
In a nut shell ..I think we all can agree that, it could be done.
I think we can all agree, that it would be worth the effort, if it were to be successful. I think that we all can agree that, It would give us one more thing to obsess about. Now.. who's willing to donate lots of money, time, and effort into this campaign. That's the bottom line! :)
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
In a nut shell ..I think we all can agree that, it could be done.
I think we can all agree, that it would be worth the effort, if it were to be successful. I think that we all can agree that, It would give us one more thing to obsess about. Now.. who's willing to donate lots of money, time, and effort into this campaign. That's the bottom line! :)
End Quote
I think that you put your finger on the question, Diva. It would seem to call for a GROUP effort of money, time and effort by anyone wanting to participate. (And I'll sing backup...mediocre-wise)
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
I would so put my voice into any such venture. And I love the idea of you putting out karaoke-type tracks, by the way.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Well.. we do have some wonderful musical Talents in RAD & MAD. And I'm glad Pat, as well as others can do some great background vocals....
And Material, well ... with almost 20k song parodies on hand.... a wealth of material to choose from.
TALENTED PERFORMERS & MATERIAL ,
I think we've got that part covered... NO SWEAT!
Which brings us to another dilema.
Who gets on the Record??
The people with the most money invested ?
Or a collective vote of all time favorites?
Who will be choosing "The Best of Amiright" anyway?????
Seems to me that, some people could get greedy and petty about the whole idea; And that would take all of the enjoyment right out of it. I'm not predicting fighting or failure, but It is human nature for folks to get real competitive about getting their 15 minutes of fame..
I think It's a superb idea, that has crossed the minds of the
parody authors from time to time. In reality- we need impartial Managament. By that, I mean someone not connected to the site to direct and guide us in the recording industry.
You know, Like a Simon Cowell of parodydom. If it BITES
please tell us so, and If it's really GREAT... go for the gold.
I do think we all need to hear from Spaff.com & Mr. Lund I'm trying to give honest and realistic thoughts to the prompt, which was proposed.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
I don't know how it works in the US but in the UK you need to get permission from the owners of the copyright in the original tune and if you use pre recorded backing tracks there is the question of mechanical rights also. In the UK we have an agency called the Performing rights Society for copyright and the Mechanical Rights Society for the rest .. it's a bit bureaucratic .;. but at least in US law I understand that there is more leeway re the use of parodies .. with regard to the question of moral rights..here in the UK you could get sued for making fun of the original without permisison as a breach of moral rights as well as simply the breach of copyright in the tune. I do occasional one woman shows in London using backing tracks so if anyone out there would like to do a guest slot I'd be delighted.. but I just do it as a hobby not for my day job ..
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded H word)
I could never be like Weird Al. He's got a lot more hair than I do.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Nine observations:
(1) In the US, you don't have to get the original artist's permission to parody their stuff. Parody is protected speech. I've heard that Weird Al chooses to get permission because he wants to stay in the good graces of the original artist. That (alas) is not an issue for us.
(2) As for the royalties due if you're selling your parodies, well, that's a whole nother deal. I'm no expert on the intricacies of this, and neither, I gather, is RL. He works for a radio chain that has in-house lawyers to take care of stuff like that. Being lawyers, you can bet they wouldn't do this for us without a lawyerly price tag. This, to me, is the stickiest issue we'll face in trying to sell a parody CD.
(3) RL records all his own music ("minus tracks") and vocals, so there are no other performers to compensate. (Even the performances on karaoke tracks are owned by somebody.) We would want to do the same.
(4) So let's say we get the legal stuff arranged. We would then need a digital master of all of the recordings and all of the artwork photo-ready. We could then take that stuff to some place (I can probably find out from RL who he uses) to do the manufacturing and packaging of the CDs. They, of course, would need to be paid in advance for their services.
(5) Then there's marketing and selling the thing. The biggest issue there is finding people willing to spend money on this CD. Advertising requires more upfront $$$.
(6) Oh, and then we'd need to have a way to take care of order fulfillment (e.g., shipping the product) and customer service. For the copies of Elves Gone Wild that are sold on my web site, I did/do this all myself, and it's a bit time consuming.
(7) Don't expect to get rich. RL and I have probably broken even on Elves Gone Wild, but I ain't quittin' my day job.
(8) So Kalor is Steven Cavanagh?
(9) And what is the dreaded L word, anyway?
xoxox
Spaff
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
8) Guilty.
9) LEGAL.
Them's quite a lot of hurdles :(
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Thanks Spaffy, for enlightning us!!!
I think the most effective promotional tool would to make a
video! Let's see.......... who could help us with that!
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
I think it's not just the "l" word by the "g" word too. I was in my highschool production of gypsy about 6 years ago and there was a song in there that says "you gotta get a gimmick if you wanna get ahead" and i think that applies as much to parodies as burlesque theater. The music industry doesn't seem to want to support non-serious music very much (as simon cowell admitted was a problem when he let scooter girl into American Idol) so if you wanna slip through the cracks and get promoted by people with influence, you gotta really stand out - a simple flawless, hilarious writing doesn't seem to be enough for that. Weird Al has his polka and also parodying the original artist through dress and dance as well as the song... the other professional parody writers have nothing like that which is why they're nowhere close to Al in terms of fame.
Even if we're not quite up to weird al level in the non-writing aspects... i think advertising agencies and radio stations (for sunday morning shows) should be recruiting here we just need a way to make them find out about amiright
As for making an amiright album the best way to do that is have an amiright convention and record one there and possible a video of performances
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Yes, a gimmick is a very good idea!
How about some skits or characters:
Think? SNL... MAD TV Shows.. Get creative!
Let's brainstom about this gimmick idea ;D
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
Them's quite a lot of hurdles :(
End Quote
Yeah, but hurdles exist to be hurdled. I posted my thoughts not to discourage anyone but rather to list some of the stuff we gotta do to make this happen.
And we don't have to do everything I said. Marketing/advertising, for example, is optional; eliminating that would reduce our expenses. And I didn't say anything about getting the CD into stores, because that pretty much requires a distributor - more expense.
We could simply produce the CD for ourselves and our loved ones (and anyone else we can force it onto) and bask in the warm self-important glow of being on a CD (which does, in fact, feel good). And we could plug the CD mercilessly on this site (Chucky willing) in hopes of drawing in an audience larger than ourselves. And, of course, we would send copies to Dr. Demento and any friendly DJs we know, in hopes of getting airplay (which also feels good).
Anyhoo, it will require some money and a lot of work. But please don't dismiss the idea. It's do-able.
xoxox
Spaff
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
We could simply produce the CD for ourselves and our loved ones (and anyone else we can force it onto) and bask in the warm self-important glow of being on a CD (which does, in fact, feel good).
End Quote
Yeah, it would... I'm still a bit annoyed that my dad recorded all the vocals on his himself, instead of asking me to do any of them with me :'(.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
We could simply produce the CD for ourselves and our loved ones (and anyone else we can force it onto) and bask in the warm self-important glow of being on a CD (which does, in fact, feel good).
xoxox
Spaff
End Quote
I agree, just the CD for ourselves does give a very good feeling. Our choir was on a CD of our music which we sang in Rome and the CD's were just produced for the choir members. Unfortunately, I don't know what all went into it. I remember the husband of a choir member taping us, but I don't know what they had to do from there.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
To ease the distribution and (physical) production burdens, it might be worth looking at Cafe Press's "press on demand" deal for CDs. It's probably more expensive per disc than self published, which would price the disc higher, but I would assume it's a lot easier. However, it requires putting someone in charge of the financial end of things -- setting up an account that receives cafe press payments and seeing to it that any bills (like songwriter/composer royalties) are paid and divvying up any profits.
Advertising: Someone (or a committee of someones) would have to contribute the artwork for the jewel cases. (I do know someone who designs covers for some bands in North Carolina, I could ask about giving a quote, but graphics designers don't work cheap.) If the "art department" works with the person(s) contributing copy to produce some web graphics & text & html for a promotional page, some banners, one liner promo links for mailing list tag lines, paragraph ads for forum posts, etc., those of us who host entertainment related websites and/or forums could contribute some ad space.
Anyone with good promotional "text byte" contacts (like one of the guys/gals who sang lead on one of the original songs being parodied on the disc) could ask those contacts to have a listen and give a short review for use on the promotional website.
I can't sing (well, I can, if you're looking to torture someone by forcing them to listen, but I assume that's not the goal, here) and the only instrument I play is the radio. But, if I have any lyrics anyone might want to use, I could contribute that and I can definitely contribute some advertising space.
Remember to be careful with the gimmick -- gimmicks have the power to catapult you either direction. Think about what sells music, not just novelty music. Unfortunately, over-exposure and teeny-bopper tits won't be options for us.
But, (just brainstorming here) if any of you happened to be somewhat hefty gentlemen, with nice floppy man-boobs and a really good sense of humor about it, happened to have a wife, gf or female pal who wouldn't mind playing along in the photo and we managed to recreate a man-sized version of the famous outfit, a campy reverse gender spoof a Janet's magic moment might make for some good parody-album cover art and if you really wanted to drive that gimmick home, you could call the collective group of contributers "The Rip-Offs" (one giant "band" with artists/authors credited individually, per track, instead of it being a compilation album made up of tracks contributed by several individual bands) title the album "OOPS!"
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
Anyhoo, it will require some money and a lot of work. But please don't dismiss the idea. It's do-able.
End Quote
"They said it couldn't be done!
...so we didn't do it." ;D
Yes, I've toyed with the idea of a CD for a while (I'm on quite a few net compilations people have made themselves), and fans keep hassling me about producing an album.
I have a couple of songs that I think are real killers that I've held off submitting here because I want to record them (even if it's just with my PC and mike). But if I record a couple, put them on a CD and send them to Dr Demento, will people in suits take my house? Even if I'm not selling anything?
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
(just brainstorming here) if any of you happened to be somewhat hefty gentlemen, with nice floppy man-boobs End Quote
I think you're on to something here. The CD booklet could include naked photos of all the contributors. There's our gimmick.
xoxox
Spaff
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
if I record a couple, put them on a CD and send them to Dr Demento, will people in suits take my house?
End Quote
People in suits may take your house whether you do this or not, but it won't be for copyright violation. In the US, parodies are protected speech. Write, record, and broadcast 'em all you want.
And hop to it, dude. A bunch of us are anxious to brag that we knew you when.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
what about unlicensed midi files used for parodies? are they legal too? i've made CDs on my computer using midi files most of which i didn't pay for
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
what about unlicensed midi files used for parodies?
End Quote
I suppose I should point out here that I'm not a copyright lawyer. So take my opinion as that of someone who's just read up a bit on the issue (which you are all welcome to do too - there's plenty of stuff online about it).
So here you go. Parody is protected speech. As long as people aren't gonna confuse your parody with the original, and it's therefore not gonna hurt the market for the original, the light is green. Go for it.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
There are ways to make basic tracks of songs without midi files that can be sung over. Just ask Johnnie. We do it all the time.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Here is an extract from a judgement on the extent of the fair use exception to breach of copyright with regard to song lyrics.
"AIn Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music , the Court addressed parody as fair use. 2 Live Crew made a rap parody version of Roy Orbison's song, 'Pretty Woman.' By changing the lyrics and music somewhat, they inverted the viewpoint of the song. Their version was a cutting commentary on both the music and world view of Orbison's original. The lower court rejected fair use, relying on the commercial nature of the use and the fact that the parody had used substantial amounts of the original. The Supreme Court reversed and remanded for a more nuanced analysis. A parody must borrow some from the original to make its point. The parody at issue was a criticism and commentary on the original 'Pretty Woman,' so was more likely to be fair use than a parody that simply took material to free-ride on the efforts of others. In addition, parody is a transformative use, meaning that defendants added independent creative material to the work. The nature of the work was a highly protected creative work, but such would normally be the case where parody is at issue. The amount taken was no more than necessary for the favored use of commentary, especially as the parody version departed from the original in both words and music. The Court held that on remand a key factual issue would be whether there was a showing of market harm, whether the rap parody version had decreased any potential licensing revenue for other versions that plaintiff would have authorized. [FN818"
Dont forget the music as well as the words even ....if your words fall into the fair use exception if you record a tune belonging to a copyright owner without permission that will be a breach of copyright also. ( I think ....I am not a copyright lawyer....)
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Very intriguing idea! I'm interested. Right now I have time and some $ ($ part is contingent on some feasible looking plan being put together). Let's keep the ideas flowing! I should have my new PC and on-line connection at home by the 1st week of March so it will be easier for me to communicate at that point.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Is there any way that we can make a compilation CD? The songs that are picked could be sung by a person of that author's choice, sent to one person that knows how to put them together, then we figure out the marketing from there.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Would a compilation CD be as simple as voting on the "performances" section?
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
Would a compilation CD be as simple as voting on the "performances" section?
End Quote
What I meant was that the authors who were already picked, probably by an objective party, could ask someone of their choice to perform the song, and tape it. Then it and the others that were picked could send their songs to whoever is in charge of putting it all together.
Subject: Re: So What's stopping us? (the dreaded L word)
Quoting:
There are ways to make basic tracks of songs without midi files that can be sung over. Just ask Johnnie. We do it all the time.
End Quote
Yup, RAD and MAD are highly skilled and experienced at just this kind of musical thing. They sent me copies of "They Flew Beyond The Sky" both with their vocals and with no vocals...both versions sound great.
John(ny D)