MidWest

I know this sounds weird coming from someone living in Illinois, but what do you think constitutes the MidWest? Does it extend into Canada?




I would think not since Canada is its own country.  I live in MI and have always thought the midwest to be MI, OH, IN, IL, WI (but I understand that it is open to interpretation--CNN defines it as those I listed, plus MN, IA, and MO).  I guess everyone has their own definition of the midwest.  :)

About yea big ;D

About yea big ;D




Funny!

As big as the great outdoors.

from...what. illinois' border to Idaho?

Mid-west.

Illinois, Missouri, Nebraska, Arkansas, Kansas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Colorado, Wyoming, Indiana and.. I guess you could throw in Kentucky, although, that's more southern. There could probably be a case for throwing Utah in there as well, seeing as it's backwards and all religious as opposed to California, Nevada, Oregon etc.. which are actually, ya know.. not part of Jesusland (for the most part.)

I wouldn't include Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota etc, they're northern, hell, they're basically Canadian.

I always thought that parts of western PA and parts of western NY can also be considered the midwest too. (I just associate it with the Great Lakes.)




Cat

I always thought that parts of western PA and parts of western NY can also be considered the midwest too. (I just associate it with the Great Lakes.)

Cat


Nah, as soon as you enter civilization you're out of the mid-west.

I always thought that parts of western PA and parts of western NY can also be considered the midwest too. (I just associate it with the Great Lakes.)




Cat



I always considered them part of the Northeast    :-\\

I always considered them part of the Northeast    :-\\




Yeah, they really are part of the Northeast but the reason why I think of them as part of the midwest is because when I think of the midwest, I think of industry-factories, coal mines, etc. Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and even Wheeling, WV jumps into my head. It is just the way I think about it-not necessarily what the "normal" definition is.



Cat

Yeah, they really are part of the Northeast but the reason why I think of them as part of the midwest is because when I think of the midwest, I think of industry-factories, coal mines, etc. Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and even Wheeling, WV jumps into my head. It is just the way I think about it-not necessarily what the "normal" definition is.



Cat


Coal mines in the Mid-West?

Maybe corn-mines.  ;D

Yeah, they really are part of the Northeast but the reason why I think of them as part of the midwest is because when I think of the midwest, I think of industry-factories, coal mines, etc. Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and even Wheeling, WV jumps into my head. It is just the way I think about it-not necessarily what the "normal" definition is.



Cat



Hey go for it.  It's not my place to say what's right or wrong!!  ;)  (Normal is highly overrated and puts way too much pressure on individuals to conform)

Coal mines in the Mid-West?

Maybe corn-mines.  ;D



Hey, you got a problem with my thinking? If so, I will just have to put a spell on you.  :D ;D ;D ;D



Cat

I'm curious where Davey would put Michigan since it isn't on his list.

I would think not since Canada is its own country.  I live in MI and have always thought the midwest to be MI, OH, IN, IL, WI (but I understand that it is open to interpretation--CNN defines it as those I listed, plus MN, IA, and MO).  I guess everyone has their own definition of the midwest.   :)


I've always wondered why those states are considered the 'Midwest' when they're not even in the west...they're mostly in the central part of the country!  ::)

I've always wondered why those states are considered the 'Midwest' when they're not even in the west...they're mostly in the central part of the country!  ::)



lol Hence the "Mid" part, I guess.   :-\\

That's why I prefer being a "Great Lake State" -- less confusion.  :)

I used to live in Lansing, Mich which still have a lot of farms around it if that's the definition of this region. The reason why I asked was that I've heard of various places refered to themselves as Midwestern. In general though I've heard it refered to the region between the App.mountains and Rockies

North to South. For me I would say it ranges from the Ohio river to the south to a line north of Saint Paul and the most of the lower penn. of Michigan. The south of this would be a semi-Dixie (southern) region and the north a semi-Canadian region.

East to West. I've always heard Ohio refered to as the Mid-West but it seems that Eastern Penn. might be included as well. I would put the western boundry culturally somewhere in Western Nebraska ,the W.Dakota's, and W.Kansas. These western areas have a more rugged  landscape and have played more traditional roles in the Wild West.

The states named in the CNN list seem to be Old Northwest or the Great Lake's region. This area is less defined by farms and more among the industrial rustbelt around the Great Lakes.

As to coal, Illinois does have a major coal mining industry in both the south and center of the state. 



Thank you and karma.



Cat

Hmm..who'd a thought a state with 12.4 million people and the only state to have universal childcare for children would be considered backward and not even northern. Guess that means all those millions of religious freaks in Chicagoland should be thrown into the death camps as well.



Dude.. I live in Illinois. Apart from the north east part it's very much a mid-western state.

I'm curious where Davey would put Michigan since it isn't on his list.


Hmmm. Well, I've never been through Michigan so I'm not 100% sure what's it's like. I'd group it with Ohio and Pennsylvania I suppose, as those kind of mid-eastern states go.

Nah, as soon as you enter civilization you're out of the mid-west.


Yep, the midwest is pretty substandard. :P

Yep, the midwest is pretty substandard. :P


My issue with the mid-west.. and don't get me wrong, I've lived here and continue to..

It's basically Jesusland. The Mid-west is the voting core of the Christian coalition, which by default makes the vast percentage of the people that live here my mortal enemies.

I've always wondered why those states are considered the 'Midwest' when they're not even in the west...they're mostly in the central part of the country!  ::)


The only logical answer I can come up with is maybe when people first came to this country and they all inhabited the east coast...they just considered everything west?? :-\\

Hmmm. Well, I've never been through Michigan so I'm not 100% sure what's it's like. I'd group it with Ohio and Pennsylvania I suppose, as those kind of mid-eastern states go.


What's great about Michigan is the geographical diversity.  The west side of the state, where I live, has beaches, trees, farmland, etc.  But there are industrial pockets, too, mostly in the metro Detroit area.  The east side is mostly concrete and noise, but to their credit, they do have museums, art institutes, and more things to do than the rural area in which I live.  Then we have a whole other peninsula that is sparsely populated (with a few exceptions, of course)...nature lover's paradise.  This state has something for everyone.  :)

My issue with the mid-west.. and don't get me wrong, I've lived here and continue to..

It's basically Jesusland. The Mid-west is the voting core of the Christian coalition, which by default makes the vast percentage of the people that live here my mortal enemies.




Since I live in the Indiana, I know what your talking about.

I was at work before and when I was collecting carts I seen a truck that had alot of painted Pro-Christian phrases on it, one of the signs said something like "Homosexuals are not welcome here", I'm fairly neutral on debate of Homosexuality myself. I feel that people can have their opinions on whether it's right or wrong, but they shouldn't try forcing them on others around them.

What's great about Michigan is the geographical diversity.  The west side of the state, where I live, has beaches, trees, farmland, etc.  But there are industrial pockets, too, mostly in the metro Detroit area.  The east side is mostly concrete and noise, but to their credit, they do have museums, art institutes, and more things to do than the rural area in which I live.  Then we have a whole other peninsula that is sparsely populated (with a few exceptions, of course)...nature lover's paradise.  This state has something for everyone.  :)


Maybe I oughta pay a visit to my buddy Gary, he moved to Michigan a couple years ago.


Since I live in the Indiana, I know what your talking about.

I was at work before and when I was collecting carts I seen a truck that had alot of painted Pro-Christian phrases on it, one of the signs said something like "Homosexuals are not welcome here", I'm fairly neutral on debate of Homosexuality myself. I feel that people can have their opinions on whether it's right or wrong, but they shouldn't try forcing them on others around them.


Indy is Icky!

Indy is Icky!


Indiana recently tried to pass a new marriage amendment that defines marriage as a union between a man and woman. One big problem with it is that there is a second part of it that is kinda vague.... It could end up ruining domestic violence laws.

I'll go look it up.

Indiana recently tried to pass a new marriage amendment that defines marriage as a union between a man and woman. One big problem with it is that there is a second part of it that is kinda vague.... It could end up ruining domestic violence laws.

I'll go look it up.


That's retarded.. and that's what I'm talking about Jesusland.

How's this for a definition, any state that passes a law banning gay marriage but allows concealed carry is part of the mid-west!  ;D So I guess Illinois ain't.

That's retarded.. and that's what I'm talking about Jesusland.

How's this for a definition, any state that passes a law banning gay marriage but allows concealed carry is part of the mid-west!  ;D So I guess Illinois ain't.


The amendment failed, it didn't get passed....

Here is why it didn't and never should be:

This Consitution or any other Indiana law may not be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents of marriage be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups

This ^ is the second part of the of the amendment. It's pretty vague and as I said could cause problems with domestic violence laws when it comes to unmarried couples. It happened in Ohio, a man got convicted for beating his girlfriend, but was let out later due to their marriage amendment. I think that's ****ing retarded, he should've remained locked up, regardless of what their amendment says. Abuse is abuse.

The dumb thing is that Indiana already has a normal law on what type of couples can be married, it just doesn't have a vague part to it.

The amendment failed, it didn't get passed....

Here is why it didn't and never should be:

This Consitution or any other Indiana law may not be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents of marriage be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups

This ^ is the second part of the of the amendment. It's pretty vague and as I said could cause problems with domestic violence laws when it comes to unmarried couples. It happened in Ohio, a man got convicted for beating his girlfriend, but was let out later due to their marriage amendment. I think that's ****ing retarded, he should've remained locked up, regardless of what their amendment says. Abuse is abuse.

The dumb thing is that Indiana already has a normal law on what type of couples can be married, it just doesn't have a vague part to it.




That is retarded, you're right, abuse is abuse, even if the people doing it to each other are gay!

Yeah, they really are part of the Northeast but the reason why I think of them as part of the midwest is because when I think of the midwest, I think of industry-factories, coal mines, etc. Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and even Wheeling, WV jumps into my head. It is just the way I think about it-not necessarily what the "normal" definition is.



Cat


People try to put PA in the midwest but that was only true before the days of Lewis & Clark.

Wheeling WV is neither geographically or culturally midwest, it is clearly "Easterner" as is Pittsburgh.

Heck, most West Virginians do not even consider the Northern Panhandle to be part of the state.   :P

Let me just say:

Not everyone in the midwest buys into the Christian coalition nonsense.  If you ask me, they don't have very many "traditional Christian" values (you know like, judge not lest ye be judged--they judge everyone and anyone deemed not to be like them is to be treated like crap).

Step, I mean no offense to you personally, but wouldn't you say that historically (and you posted a great example tonight), Hoosiers have never been considered the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.  Again, I don't mean you personally, but as a group....and the state really doesn't have much to offer except as a way to get from Michigan to Chicago.  (No, I'm not a Notre Dame fan, even when I grew up in their backyard.)

And you all are right--abuse is abuse regardless of the sexual orientation.  Just like in the other thread, rape is rape regardless of sex/gender.

Hey Davey, what part of Michigan is your friend Gary in?

Hey Davey, what part of Michigan is your friend Gary in?


Hell if I know. He works sales so travels around a lot, last time I caught up with him was in Milwaukee.

Let me just say:

Not everyone in the midwest buys into the Christian coalition nonsense.  If you ask me, they don't have very many "traditional Christian" values (you know like, judge not lest ye be judged--they judge everyone and anyone deemed not to be like them is to be treated like crap).

Step, I mean no offense to you personally, but wouldn't you say that historically (and you posted a great example tonight), Hoosiers have never been considered the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.  Again, I don't mean you personally, but as a group....and the state really doesn't have much to offer except as a way to get from Michigan to Chicago.  (No, I'm not a Notre Dame fan, even when I grew up in their backyard.)

And you all are right--abuse is abuse regardless of the sexual orientation.  Just like in the other thread, rape is rape regardless of sex/gender.



Heck, I've posted an example back in March, I think it was(with the bus incident.... the redneck jerk that thought I was gay just because the badly impaired peeing himself drunk put his arm around me, causing me to explain to him that I was a man. Then the drunk said something about or asked me if I was gay. That made the redneck jerk assume).

It's definetly easy to see how this state developed such a reputation(no wonder my cousin moved to Ohio, although I don't know how much better that state is).

No offense taken.  ;)

I definetly don't fit into the norms of the Christian coalition(thankfully), considering what quirks and fetishes I have.... They would consider me an abomination if I told any of them(regardless of the fact that I'm hetero).

In a topographical and agricultural sense as well as the basic "feel" (i.e. small town atmosphere, farmlands), I'd say the Midwest starts east of Denver to the Missisippi.

Let me just say:

Not everyone in the midwest buys into the Christian coalition nonsense.  If you ask me, they don't have very many "traditional Christian" values (you know like, judge not lest ye be judged--they judge everyone and anyone deemed not to be like them is to be treated like crap).

Step, I mean no offense to you personally, but wouldn't you say that historically (and you posted a great example tonight), Hoosiers have never been considered the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.  Again, I don't mean you personally, but as a group....and the state really doesn't have much to offer except as a way to get from Michigan to Chicago.  (No, I'm not a Notre Dame fan, even when I grew up in their backyard.)

And you all are right--abuse is abuse regardless of the sexual orientation.  Just like in the other thread, rape is rape regardless of sex/gender.

Hey Davey, what part of Michigan is your friend Gary in?



I, having lived in both the Midwest (Indiana) and the East (Western PA) never bought in to the whole "do not judge people" thingie.

OF COURSE we should judge people.  How else do we learn to avoid bad influences and tell our kids who to not hang out with?

If anybody on the face of the earth actually "did not judge" they'd be sopping up all the cheap real estate in the slums and build themselves mansions.  Why don't they?  Because they accurately JUDGE that those are dangerous areas, filled with many dangerous people.  Does not matter the REASONS for the danger, or WHY there are lots of criminals in the slums, just judging that it is, in fact, dangerous and so they stay the heck out.

Mothers counsel their sons to stay away from sluts.  Mothers counsel their daughters to stay away from hosers.  That is all JUDGEMENT and that's life.

When people complain about people who "judge", that i itself is a "judgement".

I, having lived in both the Midwest (Indiana) and the East (Western PA) never bought in to the whole "do not judge people" thingie.

OF COURSE we should judge people.  How else do we learn to avoid bad influences and tell our kids who to not hang out with?

If anybody on the face of the earth actually "did not judge" they'd be sopping up all the cheap real estate in the slums and build themselves mansions.  Why don't they?  Because they accurately JUDGE that those are dangerous areas, filled with many dangerous people.  Does not matter the REASONS for the danger, or WHY there are lots of criminals in the slums, just judging that it is, in fact, dangerous and so they stay the heck out.

Mothers counsel their sons to stay away from sluts.  Mothers counsel their daughters to stay away from hosers.  That is all JUDGEMENT and that's life.

When people complain about people who "judge", that i itself is a "judgement".



Point taken.  I have a problem sometimes with clearly communicating what I'm thinking.  When I posted that, I was actually thinking about the Christians who tell gay people that they are immoral (which I find hypocritical when it surfaces that they are having affairs, etc.) or that they are going to hell for something that they perceive as a lifestyle choice even when there is emerging evidence that it is something biological or chemical.  I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer.

My issue with the mid-west.. and don't get me wrong, I've lived here and continue to..

It's basically Jesusland. The Mid-west is the voting core of the Christian coalition, which by default makes the vast percentage of the people that live here my mortal enemies.


Yeah, but other than Cook County, it's mostly Republican so you fit right in ;)

Then I take back my response then since you're a Chicagoan. As to the area's support of the Christian Coalition I'm not sure why the Midwest is getting all the attention though. Both the west and south give just as much support. In fact isn't the core of that movement headquatered on Virginia's coast? 

As to why this area is called Midwest I think it maybe a reference to being in the middle of the Western Hemisphere or World. If we're just looking at the US then really Utah, Arizona & Idaho is the real midwest. 

I wondered if Canada had a part in it since Northern Mexico could be considered the southwest and both Western Canada and Western US make up the Pacific Northwest. When I think of Canada's inland proviences such as Saskatawahan or Manitoba I imagine something like southern Minnesota. 


Chicago and St. Louis my friend.

Here's the thing.

When I travel around in the mid-west, I see.. personally.. the real Christian Militants, this is baptist land through and through, look how many of the major evangelicals are located here.

Yeah, but other than Cook County, it's mostly Republican so you fit right in ;)


Kane county was pretty Red if I remember correctly.

My issue with the mid-west.. and don't get me wrong, I've lived here and continue to..

It's basically Jesusland. The Mid-west is the voting core of the Christian coalition, which by default makes the vast percentage of the people that live here my mortal enemies.





I thought most people in the Mid-West practiced the religion of Football.




Cat

I figure anything west of Worcester, until you get to San Francisco

http://www.searchus.com/maps/mamain.gif

I thought most people in the Mid-West practiced the religion of Football.




Cat


That's The Mid South.  ;) Texas, Oklahomo etc.

That's The Mid South.  ;) Texas, Oklahomo etc.



I don't know. You also have Ohio, Iowa, and host of other states, too.



Cat

The only logical answer I can come up with is maybe when people first came to this country and they all inhabited the east coast...they just considered everything west?? :-\\


Perhaps... :-\\

I think a lot of Christains or believers of any other faiths (including Athiesm) shouldn't be labeled fundlementalist simply because they believe in what they believe. To me a fundlementalist is a person who uses power to force their views on others. Each person is responsible for their own spiritual (or non-spiritual) life. It's all about respecting others. You can totally disagree with someone's choices or lifestyle but still treat them as a human being.


I'm wasn't refering to all Christians as fundamentalists. There are just a certain amount that are like that. My mom and my grandfather don't agree with homosexuality but they don't force their opinions on anyone.

I actually believe there is a god myself(just to let ya know, I'm not an Atheist).

I, having lived in both the Midwest (Indiana) and the East (Western PA) never bought in to the whole "do not judge people" thingie.

OF COURSE we should judge people.  How else do we learn to avoid bad influences and tell our kids who to not hang out with?

If anybody on the face of the earth actually "did not judge" they'd be sopping up all the cheap real estate in the slums and build themselves mansions.  Why don't they?  Because they accurately JUDGE that those are dangerous areas, filled with many dangerous people.  Does not matter the REASONS for the danger, or WHY there are lots of criminals in the slums, just judging that it is, in fact, dangerous and so they stay the heck out.

Mothers counsel their sons to stay away from sluts.  Mothers counsel their daughters to stay away from hosers.  That is all JUDGEMENT and that's life.

When people complain about people who "judge", that i itself is a "judgement".


Of course, the "Judge me not, lest ye be judged" is more on the grounds of judging others without probable reasoning or basing judgement upon rumors or stereotypes that are not called for. That's the difference between judgement that's justified(like whether or not a place is safe enough to put houses in, knowing someone is not a good boyfriend or girlfriend by experience for example) and judgement that is incorrect(like what happened to me on the bus back in March, PM me if you don't know about it).

Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Missouri, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Iowa, Nebraska

I think that's all of them. That's the Midwest as defined by the US Census bureau. States like North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas can also be said to be part of the Great Plains.

The amendment failed, it didn't get passed....

Here is why it didn't and never should be:

This Consitution or any other Indiana law may not be construed to require that marital status or the legal incidents of marriage be conferred upon unmarried couples or groups

This ^ is the second part of the of the amendment. It's pretty vague and as I said could cause problems with domestic violence laws when it comes to unmarried couples. It happened in Ohio, a man got convicted for beating his girlfriend, but was let out later due to their marriage amendment. I think that's ****ing retarded, he should've remained locked up, regardless of what their amendment says. Abuse is abuse.

The dumb thing is that Indiana already has a normal law on what type of couples can be married, it just doesn't have a vague part to it.



I was reading that this could happen under that amendment if we passed it, but of course most people voting here have absolutely no idea what they're voting for so all they cared about was no gay marriage/civil unions, etc.

I was reading that this could happen under that amendment if we passed it, but of course most people voting here have absolutely no idea what they're voting for so all they cared about was no gay marriage/civil unions, etc.


I didn't know you were from Indiana.

I've never voted(or registered to vote) myself, for good reason.

These elections and stuff is just a shuffle of the same ol' stuff anyway.

I thought most people in the Mid-West practiced the religion of Football.




Cat


I know I'm not part of that group.

I didn't know you were from Indiana.

I've never voted(or registered to vote) myself, for good reason.

These elections and stuff is just a shuffle of the same ol' stuff anyway.


I was talking about my state Ohio which you mentioned, but yeah I knew that issue with domestic violence was going to happen with this amendment.

I was talking about my state Ohio which you mentioned, but yeah I knew that issue with domestic violence was going to happen with this amendment.


Oh, okay.

Misread.

Of course, the "Judge me not, lest ye be judged" is more on the grounds of judging others without probable reasoning or basing judgement upon rumors or stereotypes that are not called for. That's the difference between judgement that's justified(like whether or not a place is safe enough to put houses in, knowing someone is not a good boyfriend or girlfriend by experience for example) and judgement that is incorrect(like what happened to me on the bus back in March, PM me if you don't know about it).



Thanks, Step.  Well said.

Point taken.  I have a problem sometimes with clearly communicating what I'm thinking.  When I posted that, I was actually thinking about the Christians who tell gay people that they are immoral (which I find hypocritical when it surfaces that they are having affairs, etc.) or that they are going to hell for something that they perceive as a lifestyle choice even when there is emerging evidence that it is something biological or chemical.  I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer.


No reason to apologize.  This is a forum for idea exchange.  :)

The "do not judge" mantra is beat into peoples' head and it is a great platform for people to sound high and mighty.  You are not one of those people (well, at least that is my judgement based on your posts).  ;)

We had a guy who worked in my plant who was convicted in court of molesting his 14 year old step daughter.  And he woulda gotten sent to the slammer except his boss (at our plant) intervened and got him some sort of work release program.  The plant manager was irate and nearly fired the manager.

Amazingly all sorts of people stepped up to defend the molestor and said "you can't judge him thats not right".  I was like "WTF?  The guy just got convicted by a jury of his peers for buggaring his step daughter.  You're darned right I judge him.  He is a dirt bag.  Judge THIS"

So some people judge that homosexuality is immoral.  As long as they do not commit (or incite) violence or other illegal actus upon homosexuals, what's the problem.  Freedom of speech and free association, I say.

Somebody does not like blacks or catholics, or whatever?  So what, as long as they do not commit violence or other illegal acts upon them.  True, these poeple may be bigoted and I might not like their value system, but it is their right, as long as they do not cross the line into illegal activity.

The problem in today's society is that people want you to think that ANYTHING IS OK, ANY BEHAVIOR IS OK.  And that flat out is against the concept of "diversity".  If everybody has to THINK THE SAME THOIGHTS then, in fact, there is NO diversity.

Bottom line is that nobody can "prove" that homosexuality, heterosexuality, christianity, judaism, witchcraft, etc etc are RIGHT or WRONG.  So anybody claiming to possess the moral high ground on EITHER side of these debates is on thin ice.  But it is their right to judge and thery are not wrong for judging.  Just don;t start turning your judgements into illegal actions.

No reason to apologize.  This is a forum for idea exchange.  :)

The "do not judge" mantra is beat into peoples' head and it is a great platform for people to sound high and mighty.  You are not one of those people (well, at least that is my judgement based on your posts).  ;)

We had a guy who worked in my plant who was convicted in court of molesting his 14 year old step daughter.  And he woulda gotten sent to the slammer except his boss (at our plant) intervened and got him some sort of work release program.  The plant manager was irate and nearly fired the manager.

Amazingly all sorts of people stepped up to defend the molestor and said "you can't judge him thats not right".  I was like "WTF?  The guy just got convicted by a jury of his peers for buggaring his step daughter.  You're darned right I judge him.  He is a dirt bag.  Judge THIS"

So some people judge that homosexuality is immoral.  As long as they do not commit (or incite) violence or other illegal actus upon homosexuals, what's the problem.  Freedom of speech and free association, I say.

Somebody does not like blacks or catholics, or whatever?  So what, as long as they do not commit violence or other illegal acts upon them.  True, these poeple may be bigoted and I might not like their value system, but it is their right, as long as they do not cross the line into illegal activity.

The problem in today's society is that people want you to think that ANYTHING IS OK, ANY BEHAVIOR IS OK.  And that flat out is against the concept of "diversity".  If everybody has to THINK THE SAME THOIGHTS then, in fact, there is NO diversity.

Bottom line is that nobody can "prove" that homosexuality, heterosexuality, christianity, judaism, witchcraft, etc etc are RIGHT or WRONG.  So anybody claiming to possess the moral high ground on EITHER side of these debates is on thin ice.  But it is their right to judge and thery are not wrong for judging.  Just don;t start turning your judgements into illegal actions.



Thanks, Lyric.  And you are right (thank you for the compliment), I do not feel I am better than anyone else.  I am very easygoing and would rather spend my time trying to get my own life right rather than worry about how someone else is living his/hers.  And you're right, there is nothing we can do about hate groups, shame that.  I agree that you (not you specifically) are entitled to your opinions, but as soon as those opinions threaten the safety and well-being of anyone I care about, we have issues (i.e., my daughter is multiracial and we are fighting a huge battle about the confederate flag with the administration at her school).

No reason to apologize.  This is a forum for idea exchange.  :)

The "do not judge" mantra is beat into peoples' head and it is a great platform for people to sound high and mighty.  You are not one of those people (well, at least that is my judgement based on your posts).  ;)

We had a guy who worked in my plant who was convicted in court of molesting his 14 year old step daughter.  And he woulda gotten sent to the slammer except his boss (at our plant) intervened and got him some sort of work release program.  The plant manager was irate and nearly fired the manager.

Amazingly all sorts of people stepped up to defend the molestor and said "you can't judge him thats not right".  I was like "WTF?  The guy just got convicted by a jury of his peers for buggaring his step daughter.  You're darned right I judge him.  He is a dirt bag.  Judge THIS"

So some people judge that homosexuality is immoral.  As long as they do not commit (or incite) violence or other illegal actus upon homosexuals, what's the problem.  Freedom of speech and free association, I say.

Somebody does not like blacks or catholics, or whatever?  So what, as long as they do not commit violence or other illegal acts upon them.  True, these poeple may be bigoted and I might not like their value system, but it is their right, as long as they do not cross the line into illegal activity.

The problem in today's society is that people want you to think that ANYTHING IS OK, ANY BEHAVIOR IS OK.  And that flat out is against the concept of "diversity".  If everybody has to THINK THE SAME THOIGHTS then, in fact, there is NO diversity.

Bottom line is that nobody can "prove" that homosexuality, heterosexuality, christianity, judaism, witchcraft, etc etc are RIGHT or WRONG.  So anybody claiming to possess the moral high ground on EITHER side of these debates is on thin ice.  But it is their right to judge and thery are not wrong for judging.  Just don;t start turning your judgements into illegal actions.


QFT! Well said, and Karma to you.

Hi Step-Chan

I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone but rather explaining something in general. I apologize if it seemed that I was targeting anyone. Basically I think we're all agreed that everyone has the right to believe or think how they want to as long as it doesn't interfere with others basic human rights. 


Different strokes for different folks.

No reason to apologize.  This is a forum for idea exchange.  :)

The "do not judge" mantra is beat into peoples' head and it is a great platform for people to sound high and mighty.  You are not one of those people (well, at least that is my judgement based on your posts).  ;)

We had a guy who worked in my plant who was convicted in court of molesting his 14 year old step daughter.  And he woulda gotten sent to the slammer except his boss (at our plant) intervened and got him some sort of work release program.  The plant manager was irate and nearly fired the manager.

Amazingly all sorts of people stepped up to defend the molestor and said "you can't judge him thats not right".  I was like "WTF?  The guy just got convicted by a jury of his peers for buggaring his step daughter.  You're darned right I judge him.  He is a dirt bag.  Judge THIS"

So some people judge that homosexuality is immoral.  As long as they do not commit (or incite) violence or other illegal actus upon homosexuals, what's the problem.  Freedom of speech and free association, I say.

Somebody does not like blacks or catholics, or whatever?  So what, as long as they do not commit violence or other illegal acts upon them.  True, these poeple may be bigoted and I might not like their value system, but it is their right, as long as they do not cross the line into illegal activity.

The problem in today's society is that people want you to think that ANYTHING IS OK, ANY BEHAVIOR IS OK.  And that flat out is against the concept of "diversity".  If everybody has to THINK THE SAME THOIGHTS then, in fact, there is NO diversity.

Bottom line is that nobody can "prove" that homosexuality, heterosexuality, christianity, judaism, witchcraft, etc etc are RIGHT or WRONG.  So anybody claiming to possess the moral high ground on EITHER side of these debates is on thin ice.  But it is their right to judge and thery are not wrong for judging.  Just don;t start turning your judgements into illegal actions.



The Wicca Rede: An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will


(Karma to you, Sir.)



Cat

Hi Step-Chan

I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone but rather explaining something in general. I apologize if it seemed that I was targeting anyone. Basically I think we're all agreed that everyone has the right to believe or think how they want to as long as it doesn't interfere with others basic human rights. 


Well, I wasn't sure if what you were implying was toward me or not(being online is little different than face to face). I just wanted to make sure things were clear is all.

;)

Is the MidWest what can be called John Ford country?

Is the MidWest what can be called John Ford country?


I honestly don't know myself.

But sometimes it feels like a tornado alley.

Very big?