(Sorry guys, I'm just so stressed out and I thought I should share this w/ y'all):

Ok so Mom, Dad, and the little sister are on vacation for 2 weeks.  So my brother, big sister, and I get our Dad's permission to clean out the house, without mom's knowledge.  He says "If it belongs to you, get rid of it!"
Let me tell you though, mother has a little problem called OCD.  She keeps buying books she'll never read, Star Wars figures never to be opened or even seen, (extremely ugly) Christmas decorations never to be used.  Sounds pretty normal, you say?  Ok then, how about the stuff she keeps: plastic bags of plastic bags, boxes of box tops, empty envelopes from junk-mail, "playing pieces" from food and/or drink contests that are long since canceled, every newspaper she's had, EVERY SINGLE HOMEWORK PAPER she can get her hands on, notes from the teachers from when we were in ELEMENTARY!!!, the list goes on and on. 
What sucks is that her books and newspapers and un-opened stuff, oh and her large library of home videos, we can't get rid of it.  However, my brother did buy and put together 3 book shelves for his old room and it was a MIRACLE just to be able to WALK in there. 
Well, at least I've done my duty but oh GOD am I tired and oh I cringe every time I think about this scarring, life-altering experience.

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF SUCH NONSENSE IN YOUR LIFE?!!  Once on TV I saw something about a lady who wouldn't even throw away used bandaids or hair in the drain.  My mom's not that bad...but she's pretty dam close.  :-[

(Sorry guys, I'm just so stressed out and I thought I should share this w/ y'all):

Ok so Mom, Dad, and the little sister are on vacation for 2 weeks.  So my brother, big sister, and I get our Dad's permission to clean out the house, without mom's knowledge.  He says "If it belongs to you, get rid of it!"
Let me tell you though, mother has a little problem called OCD.  She keeps buying books she'll never read, Star Wars figures never to be opened or even seen, (extremely ugly) Christmas decorations never to be used.  Sounds pretty normal, you say?  Ok then, how about the stuff she keeps: plastic bags of plastic bags, boxes of box tops, empty envelopes from junk-mail, "playing pieces" from food and/or drink contests that are long since canceled, every newspaper she's had, EVERY SINGLE HOMEWORK PAPER she can get her hands on, notes from the teachers from when we were in ELEMENTARY!!!, the list goes on and on. 
What sucks is that her books and newspapers and un-opened stuff, oh and her large library of home videos, we can't get rid of it.  However, my brother did buy and put together 3 book shelves for his old room and it was a MIRACLE just to be able to WALK in there. 
Well, at least I've done my duty but oh GOD am I tired and oh I cringe every time I think about this scarring, life-altering experience.

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF SUCH NONSENSE IN YOUR LIFE?!!  Once on TV I saw something about a lady who wouldn't even throw away used bandaids or hair in the drain.  My mom's not that bad...but she's pretty dam close.   :-[


If she really has OCD, this is not "nonsense" but a real, serious problem.

I think that we have some board members here who have O.C.D.  Does anyone care to offer their comments on the above posting?

If she really has OCD, this is not "nonsense" but a real, serious problem.

I think that we have some board members here who have O.C.D.  Does anyone care to offer their comments on the above posting?


We used to just lightly joke about how our mom has OCD, I mean she's never actually been "diagnosed."  But I never realised just how bad it was until seeing EVERYTHING she's kept.

Isn't that just being a "pack rat"? I know of a lot of older people in their 70's and 80's who have similar characteristics. ???

Isn't that just being a "pack rat"? I know of a lot of older people in their 70's and 80's who have similar characteristics. ???
:o :o :oIt sounds like her mom is more of a pack rat,since she doesn't keep gross things like used bandaids.But people have to be careful not to use the term as a prejuicial way to classify people who DON"T have it.,because that can DESTROY relationships.Having a tiny room,and small furniture and closet and a poorly designed shelving system,resulting in having to put some stuff on the floor is NOT OCD.However,obsessing about how much stuff somene has and sneaking into someone's room to throw stuff away,and yelling to someone about how much stuff someone has,IS.Taking away someone else's stuff when they don't want you to is,besides theft and illegal,whatever the reason,is sick behavior,and the person doing it needs to get some help .You cannot justify illegal or immoral behavior with excuses about being able to get around in a room.BTW,I'm not saying Cat has OCD;I was just clarifying the difference.Cheers!

what's O.C.D stand for?

and, my nan was a pack rat. But she kept the best things, like a crystal necklace and a beautiful ballerina with brown hair and blue dress. It's a little statue. It's nice, she kept lots of nice things in her cupboard. Sometimes I think a pack rat can lead you to a load of junk worth a couple of hundred quid. I'd love to collect beautiful old stuff; perhaps something that's already worth something?

Sorry, I probably have gone off topic there.

My gramma is a total pack-rat.  She hordes everything in her house waiting for the bomb to drop or something. ::)  I duuno, she still has Good Housekeeping magazines from the 50's because she's worried she'll run out of recipe or decorating ideas.... ;D

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is when you do something repeatedly without control. A Pack Rat is when you keep useless items to the point of over doing it.

Isn't Obsessive Compulsive Disorder more to do with the way you do things? Like washing hands continuously etc . . .

Isn't Obsessive Compulsive Disorder more to do with the way you do things? Like washing hands continuously etc . . .
:oYes it is.Very few people accused of having it when it comes to the amount of "stuff' they have actually have it.It usually has to do with the accuser being intolerant of someone else's beliefs and not listening to an opinion which differs from their own.A neighbor with a "junky" looking yard doesn't necessarily qualify,nor may someone who is "always" working on junk cars.Cheers!

:o :o :oIt sounds like her mom is more of a pack rat,since she doesn't keep gross things like used bandaids.But people have to be careful not to use the term as a prejuicial way to classify people who DON"T have it.,because that can DESTROY relationships.Having a tiny room,and small furniture and closet and a poorly designed shelving system,resulting in having to put some stuff on the floor is NOT OCD.However,obsessing about how much stuff somene has and sneaking into someone's room to throw stuff away,and yelling to someone about how much stuff someone has,IS.Taking away someone else's stuff when they don't want you to is,besides theft and illegal,whatever the reason,is sick behavior,and the person doing it needs to get some help .You cannot justify illegal or immoral behavior with excuses about being able to get around in a room.BTW,I'm not saying Cat has OCD;I was just clarifying the difference.Cheers!


Look,first of all it wasn't theft because it was OUR stuff that we threw away that she thought she needed to keep.  Why the hell is there something wrong with US for throwing away LOLLIPOP WRAPPERS!!!  Or CEREAL THAT WAS FIVE YEARS PAST THE EXPIRATION DATE!!!  And it's not like we were "breaking in" the house, I still live there, sort of...it still counts as my house cuz I'm still a dependant.  And besides, we had our father's permission (yes it's HIS HOUSE too) as to what we could do.  So there is nothing wrong with us. 
By the way, maybe my mom doesn't keep "gross" things like used bandaids, but she DOES try to keep the leftover grease from the grill to FEED THE DOGS!!! Isn't that called animal cruelty? Oh man, and we also found a partially eaten lollipop that's like 15 years old.  I guess we're pretty sick for throwing that away too. 
The point is, so my mom does get a little too attached to things like TRASH and she keeps buying things she doesn't need, and even if that can't be "classified" as OCD, it doesn't mean she doesn't need help.

It sounds like her mom is more of a pack rat,since she doesn't keep gross things like used bandaids.


Isn't Obsessive Compulsive Disorder more to do with the way you do things? Like washing hands continuously etc . . .


Hoarding can be related to a form of OCD, but it is probably a different form of OCD from the type shown in As Good As It Gets...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-02-18-hoarding-usat_x.htm
"Brain scans show a difference in brain abnormalities between people with non-hoarding OCD and hoarding OCD..."



Having a tiny room,and small furniture and closet and a poorly designed shelving system,resulting in having to put some stuff on the floor is NOT OCD.However,obsessing about how much stuff somene has and sneaking into someone's room to throw stuff away,and yelling to someone about how much stuff someone has,IS.

And here I thought you were trying to educate us on the real symptoms of OCD... AmenRa's not obsessively cleaning out multiple homes, now, is she?

The cleaning spree is frustration, not OCD.



Taking away someone else's stuff when they don't want you to is,besides theft and illegal,whatever the reason,is sick behavior,and the person doing it needs to get some help .You cannot justify illegal or immoral behavior with excuses about being able to get around in a room.

You don't understand the family dynamic. They went in to clear out things they have been telling her for years to throw away. You probably don't understand what it's like to grow up in a house like that. Can you imagine the paranoia that would keep you from inviting friends over, because they would see just how much junk was cluttering the rooms and hallways and would think your family was crazy?

How about a Christmas celebration where you had to bring your guest in through the side door because the front door couldn't be opened - because it was blocked by all the junk that had been moved to make way for the tree?

How about returning home after a few years away at school and realizing that not only had it been a bigger problem than you remembered, it was steadily getting worse?

How about realizing that the only thing stemming the tide was the fact that people still lived in the bedrooms, and that they would be overflowing as soon as the last child left home?

Tossing things out and taking things away was maybe more confrontational than the ideal, but it's also probably better than calling some TLC program to come force her to clean out her house on national TV (as some families have).



I know of a lot of older people in their 70's and 80's who have similar characteristics.

In this case, we're not talking about someone quite that old, but I think that a lot of people who lived through the Great Depression or whose parents lived through it are more affected by it than others. Those reminders to save up and not waste anything probably exacerbated people's natural obsessive tendencies, bringing it out in people that may not have become hoarders if they'd enjoyed a wealthier lifestyle.

The problem probably gets worse as people age, for a number of reasons: the behavior is reinforced over time, there is a comfort in the routine and an emotional attachment to much of the stuff they are hoarding, and they are more likely to live alone as they get older.

Hoarding is a problem, and it's best to address it when there's still a chance of achieving some reasonable results in reversing it. Once you have floor-to-ceiling junk, even if you can get the person to admit they have a problem, no one will want to deal with it.

...that said, it would have been interesting to see old teachers' notes. The little bit of nostalgic humor they'd bring is not a good enough excuse for keeping everything, though.  :P

  My Greatgranny had a small apartment with two rooms a bath and a kitchen in the middle of Los Angeles as early as the mid 40s, early 50s. By the time i was hatched in the mid 70's she had wall to wall stuff, including a lovely piano no one could get across the piles to play.  So she had a trail. from the front door to the kitchen to the bath and to the bedroom she used and that was it. No chairs were visible in the living area. it was all papers, news clippings, old memoriabilia from her time on the Vaudeville stage. I tell you in 1988 when she died there were costume jewelery, scarves, shoes, desk sets, china, tea pots, purses and the like that were so out of style they were in fashion again!!
And after removing all that stuff from her apertment we kids finally got to see the other room which had an entry door to the front of the complex and a bed in the wall (Murphy bed) with lovely glass doors in front of it.  Her daughter, my grandmother is almost the same way.  At granny;s house, which great granny also owned at one time, We went thru the garage one time and we were sorry we even started.  There was evidence of possums, rodents, spiders all invading this boxed up stuff.  And most of it Granny couldn't actually identify! I mean identify as to who it came from or who it belonged to. We had a large garage sale, filled a trash bin many times, and sent some of it to charity.  But the kitchen and garage are still deplorable.  In my case i think it was a matter of no closet space, medium sized family overgrowing the small living quarters.  But that makes no difference if the family in question does not take up arms against the visible trash and attempt to eliminate it in another sector of the city. piece by piece. It doesn't solve the problem of why or what  purpose keeping it held for someone, but it reduces what needs to be gone thru in the end.
    I have to do dishes at granny's house before I eat because there is no space for more dishes and the lack of cleaning up goes unchecked until someone gets totally disgusted or really wants to eat or drink and not use disposable paper plates or plastic glasses.  I am fighting the collecting of stuff 2.

And then comes the problem of intermittent reinforcement:

If a few of the hoarded items turn out to be valuable, it reinforces the hoarding behavior. So, if you start clearing out the house and find old collectibles that are worth a little money, it makes it easier for the hoarder to justify their behavior.

(Psychology teaches that intermittent reinforcement can be more powerful than consistent reinforcement. As a simplified example: If a person collects 10 random things, and 2 happen to be valuable, they see a good reason to collect 10 more. If a person collects 10 random things, and the first 5 were valuable but the last 5 were worthless, they may abandon the behavior.)

I was diagnosed with a mild case of OCD but this symptom I pluck my eyebrows and repeat myself when I get a bit nervous! :-[



Howard

Isn't Obsessive Compulsive Disorder more to do with the way you do things? Like washing hands continuously etc . . .


Yes,Bob I believe so! :)



Howard

I understand your gripe, and a rightious one it may be.  Your mom may have a compulsion or something - I'm no shrink.  Let me try to give you some perspective, and something to think about.

About 15 years ago, while visting my family from their home in Puerto Rico, my mom suffered a ceriberal hemorage.  After serveral months in the hospital and in physical therapy she recovered, I guess 98%.  Over the years she had more hemorages, and each time she lost more of her facilities.  At the end, she was blind, could not swallow (feeding tube), and could not move out of a wheel chair.  During all this time her mind became confused.  Past, present, and future blended together for her.  She spoke to me of a brother I never had.  She saw her long dead parants etc.  She died 4 years ago, and I miss her very much.  My message to you is that your mother is precious, whatever her idiocincracies.  She will not be with you always.  Revel in her, respect her, love her now.  No matter how annoying or frustrating she may seem now, you will miss her when she is gone.  And your father too, I guess.

Very good point, DC!  :)

I also tend to wash my hands 20 million times. :(



Howard

Look,first of all it wasn't theft because it was OUR stuff that we threw away that she thought she needed to keep.  Why the hell is there something wrong with US for throwing away LOLLIPOP WRAPPERS!!!   Or CEREAL THAT WAS FIVE YEARS PAST THE EXPIRATION DATE!!!  And it's not like we were "breaking in" the house, I still live there, sort of...it still counts as my house cuz I'm still a dependant.  And besides, we had our father's permission (yes it's HIS HOUSE too) as to what we could do.  So there is nothing wrong with us. 
By the way, maybe my mom doesn't keep "gross" things like used bandaids, but she DOES try to keep the leftover grease from the grill to FEED THE DOGS!!! Isn't that called animal cruelty? Oh man, and we also found a partially eaten lollipop that's like 15 years old.  I guess we're pretty sick for throwing that away too. 
The point is, so my mom does get a little too attached to things like TRASH and she keeps buying things she doesn't need, and even if that can't be "classified" as OCD, it doesn't mean she doesn't need help.
:o :oOh,I didn't mean YOU were doing anything wrong!!!!!I was just trying to clarify the difference between OCD and being a simple pack rat.If you "know" me you know i didn't mean any offense.Sorry.But some people ARE obsessed with labeling people--they stamp a label on someone in order to try to get others to see things their way.A lot of people do use the term casually kind of as a putdown.You didn't say she had gross things there before(I don't like stale cereal and candy either ;) ;) ;))But labeling can be an obsession in itself,and when too many people use them,the terms can lose their true meaning.Oh,and just tell your mother you ate the cereal--you were hungry from all the work you did. :P ;DBTW,my cats and dogs all like grease,from the barbeque and whatnot--when the grill is taken off the barbeque to light it,the cats come lick it!But hey,don't get mad,ok?Cheers!

I understand your gripe, and a rightious one it may be.  Your mom may have a compulsion or something - I'm no shrink.  Let me try to give you some perspective, and something to think about.

About 15 years ago, while visting my family from their home in Puerto Rico, my mom suffered a ceriberal hemorage.  After serveral months in the hospital and in physical therapy she recovered, I guess 98%.  Over the years she had more hemorages, and each time she lost more of her facilities.  At the end, she was blind, could not swallow (feeding tube), and could not move out of a wheel chair.  During all this time her mind became confused.  Past, present, and future blended together for her.  She spoke to me of a brother I never had.  She saw her long dead parants etc.  She died 4 years ago, and I miss her very much.  My message to you is that your mother is precious, whatever her idiocincracies.  She will not be with you always.  Revel in her, respect her, love her now.  No matter how annoying or frustrating she may seem now, you will miss her when she is gone.  And your father too, I guess.


I do love my parents and this act of cleaning was also done out of love for the family.  Like, every time my dad comes home (which is only every other weekend because he works in Texas) he and mom get into an argument about "the stuff."  And even though we didn't even TOUCH the master bedroom, hopefully this will make things...at least a little better.

As for "labeling," I understand the term OCD gets used way too much, but I do have a little theory: I am convinced that everybody has at least a very VERY mild form of it.  For instance, some people won't eat brown or yellow M&M's, even though they taste no different from the rest, some people always have to keep their money facing the same direction, some people have to keep all their CDs or books alphabetized or in some other order.  All these behaviors ARE made of obsessive thoughts and compulsive acts, but they are very mild and the person doing it may lightly joke "Yeah, I guess I have OCD."
However, if the compulsive behavior becomes so extreme that it frustrates and upsets the family, like womberty (my sister) mentioned, it is a very serious problem.
Sorry I didn't at first clarify how bad the problem was, but I don't like to mention the things she does and all the disgusting things we found.  :-[    Again, it's most likely because of how she grew up and so she does obsess about saving things and not wasting (oh yeah, looking back she always freaked out if we used the "good" things, like we couldn't use "good" dishes, which weren't even all that great, and we couldn't bring our "good" toys to school because she was convinced they would get stolen or broken, and there were A LOT of clothes that were handed down through ALL the kids- and the oldest kid is 14 YEARS OLDER than the youngest) but anyway it IS a problem and we just started to help by clearing out our things and the things we knew were absolutely unnecessary and we did a good deed by giving a lot of our old clothes and toys to the Salvation Army.