I recently got rid of most of my album collection....about 1,500 of the 2,000 I had.  Here is my question. I paid for those records over the years, the money went to the record companies with whatever they decided, if any, to give the artist...SO is it stealing if I download the same songs from the internet and burn them to a CD...for MY own use and not to sell ???

I'm sure evryone's got their opinions on this subject...I know I have...!!

Techically...

YES - because the songs (I should imagine) are still in copyright - copyright rule differs between the US & UK...in the UK it's 50 years from date of issue, and 75 years in the US...so if the songs are still bound by copyright, it's a steal...

POSSIBLY NO - because (and I can only go by European law here) you are permitted to make no more than five (possibly) six CD's of copyrighted material for your own use...a very 'grey' ruling which is open to much misinterpretation...

Personally, I do the 'naughty' method for many reasons which I won't go into here...

I'm sure evryone's got their opinions on this subject...I know I have...!!

Techically...

YES - because the songs (I should imagine) are still in copyright - copyright rule differs between the US & UK...in the UK it's 50 years from date of issue, and 75 years in the US...so if the songs are still bound by copyright, it's a steal...

POSSIBLY NO - because (and I can only go by European law here) you are permitted to make no more than five (possibly) six CD's of copyrighted material for your own use...a very 'grey' ruling which is open to much misinterpretation...

Personally, I do the 'naughty' method for many reasons which I won't go into here...


I just figured worst case scenario would be a chance to meet Lars Ulrich of Metalicca, then I could tell him to his face, what a jerk he really is :P

RockAndRollFan,

My response here will be with regard to the "moral" issue, rather than "legal" or "proveable" issue.

My opinion is that if I have already bought the recording on vinyl or cassette, and I want to download a copy to run on my MP-3 player, I do not see that as "theft" at all.  I've paid the recording artist and record company for a legal "copy" of the work.  Morally I see no problem.

But... did you THROW OUT those 1500 albums, or did you GIVE THEM TO SOMEBODY?  if you gave them away, then you transferred your recording-ownership rights to the giftee.  In that case, in my opinion subsequently downloading those songs IS a moral crime.  Because now TWO PEOPLE have copies of that recording, but only ONE OF THEM paid.

Now as to the LEGAL aspect, I do not know if downloading a work that you already have legally paid for is a LEGAL crime or not.  I suspect that the RIAA would not have a big problem with that, on the other hand I doubt that much of the downloading that we see is of that type!

RockAndRollFan,

My response here will be with regard to the "moral" issue, rather than "legal" or "proveable" issue.

My opinion is that if I have already bought the recording on vinyl or cassette, and I want to download a copy to run on my MP-3 player, I do not see that as "theft" at all.  I've paid the recording artist and record company for a legal "copy" of the work.  Morally I see no problem.

But... did you THROW OUT those 1500 albums, or did you GIVE THEM TO SOMEBODY?  if you gave them away, then you transferred your recording-ownership rights to the giftee.  In that case, in my opinion subsequently downloading those songs IS a moral crime.  Because now TWO PEOPLE have copies of that recording, but only ONE OF THEM paid.

Now as to the LEGAL aspect, I do not know if downloading a work that you already have legally paid for is a LEGAL crime or not.  I suspect that the RIAA would not have a big problem with that, on the other hand I doubt that much of the downloading that we see is of that type!
Thanks, LyricBoy :) I actually did throw them out...most of them were worn beyond use :-\

Personally, I do the 'naughty' method for many reasons which I won't go into here...


Me too - If only I could find the stuff I want in a shop or music store. I don't like using the internet to buy stuff. I don't feel safe with the idea of giving away personal details in this manner.

I have wrestled with this issue for a long time, and after downloading about 600 songs, I have decided to sign up with a music service and pay for my downloads. For a buck a song, it's really not bad. I used to buy 45's in the 70's for a buck apiece, so you could say the price hasn't gone up in 30 years...that's not too shabby.

I understand your reasoning when you say you have already bought the songs, and I would not condemn you for downloading something which technically you have already paid for. I mean, the record company and the artist have already been monetarily compensated by you for the songs. Butt I'm not so sure the RIAA would be so understanding.

Anyway, I saw this Dilbert a couple of days ago and thought it may be good for a laugh here...it's too big to put on this post so click here:Dilbert

Lol. Great Dilbert strip, Gamblefish.

You are certainly right about the RIAA. They are unsympathetic to everybody because that is their job. Understandably so, imagine if everybody said they threw away their old vinyl because it has worn out, regardless of whether it is true or not. Everybody would be let off the hook with the same excuse.  :)

Considering I have 3000+ mp3s (although a good majority of them are legal - downloaded legally or copied from CDs I purchased), it would be quite hypocritical of me to say that you shouldn't. Irregardless, I would say it's perfectly fine. I've downloaded full albums from the internet if I've had trouble uploading music from a purchased CD for one reason or another, and it's really just a moral issue. Whatever you feel is right. :D

Considering I have 3000+ mp3s (although a good majority of them are legal - downloaded legally or copied from CDs I purchased), it would be quite hypocritical of me to say that you shouldn't. Irregardless, I would say it's perfectly fine. I've downloaded full albums from the internet if I've had trouble uploading music from a purchased CD for one reason or another, and it's really just a moral issue. Whatever you feel is right. :D


I think the issue, Junior, is whether they will sue or not. Morally, I have no problem with the issue. ;)

I have wrestled with this issue for a long time, and after downloading about 600 songs, I have decided to sign up with a music service and pay for my downloads. For a buck a song, it's really not bad. I used to buy 45's in the 70's for a buck apiece, so you could say the price hasn't gone up in 30 years...that's not too shabby.

I understand your reasoning when you say you have already bought the songs, and I would not condemn you for downloading something which technically you have already paid for. I mean, the record company and the artist have already been monetarily compensated by you for the songs. Butt I'm not so sure the RIAA would be so understanding.

Anyway, I saw this Dilbert a couple of days ago and thought it may be good for a laugh here...it's too big to put on this post so click here:Dilbert




;D

It's still legal to download music here in Canada. But if it's just a moral issue than I would say go ahead and download. You paid for the original albums and you're downloading for your own collection, it's not like you'll be distributing the music for profit.

On a side note. I download music, but I usually end up buying the original in stores because I believe in supporting the bands that I like.

Considering I have 3000+ mp3s (although a good majority of them are legal - downloaded legally or copied from CDs I purchased), it would be quite hypocritical of me to say that you shouldn't. Irregardless, I would say it's perfectly fine. I've downloaded full albums from the internet if I've had trouble uploading music from a purchased CD for one reason or another, and it's really just a moral issue. Whatever you feel is right. :D


I think the issue, Junior, is whether they will sue or not. Morally, I have no problem with the issue. ;)


Oh. My bad. Still, there's less than a 1 percent chance that they'll even find him - much less sue - anyway.

Considering I have 3000+ mp3s (although a good majority of them are legal - downloaded legally or copied from CDs I purchased), it would be quite hypocritical of me to say that you shouldn't. Irregardless, I would say it's perfectly fine. I've downloaded full albums from the internet if I've had trouble uploading music from a purchased CD for one reason or another, and it's really just a moral issue. Whatever you feel is right. :D


I think the issue, Junior, is whether they will sue or not. Morally, I have no problem with the issue. ;)


Oh. My bad. Still, there's less than a 1 percent chance that they'll even find him - much less sue - anyway.


That was my overall way of looking at the issue of downloading files, not RocknRollfan's perspective - My bad instead, Junior. :D

I'm not sure RocknRollfan has decided on his moral take on the matter. What is your moral take on the matter, RocknRollfan? 

Considering I have 3000+ mp3s (although a good majority of them are legal - downloaded legally or copied from CDs I purchased), it would be quite hypocritical of me to say that you shouldn't. Irregardless, I would say it's perfectly fine. I've downloaded full albums from the internet if I've had trouble uploading music from a purchased CD for one reason or another, and it's really just a moral issue. Whatever you feel is right. :D
Naturally I think it's okay...like reinchaser has stated, I paid for the vinyl so I don't feel it's wrong. Lars and the big companies would be hopping mad if they knew about a non Clear Channel station out here that plays entire LPs with no interuption....and they also don't talk over ANY of the songs, ever.....I record a lot of stuff off of the radio and yet that is alright ???

I think the issue, Junior, is whether they will sue or not. Morally, I have no problem with the issue. ;)


Oh. My bad. Still, there's less than a 1 percent chance that they'll even find him - much less sue - anyway.


That was my overall way of looking at the issue of downloading files, not RocknRollfan's perspective - My bad instead, Junior. :D

I'm not sure RocknRollfan has decided on his moral take on the matter. What is your moral take on the matter, RocknRollfan? 

You mention Lars from Metallica a lot, Rocknrollfan. Was he really such an idiot about the matter?

You mention Lars from Metallica a lot, Rocknrollfan. Was he really such an idiot about the matter?


He was a real pain in the Lars about it  :o

You mention Lars from Metallica a lot, Rocknrollfan. Was he really such an idiot about the matter?


He was a real pain in the Lars about it  :o


Ha, Ha!!!

And to think I used to love Metallica....after the big deal with Napster I just can not look/listen to them the same way. 

RnRF, It's not stealing....it is sharing.   ;)  I don't understand why it is legal in Canada and in the US they are making such a big deal about it. 

So, if I go to the record store and take every cd I used to own on vinyl but threw away, is that REALLY stealing?

So, if I go to the record store and take every cd I used to own on vinyl but threw away, is that REALLY stealing?


:) My thoughts exactly Claude. If I have a Toyota, and it claps out, then should I be able to just go and get another one without having to pay for it, because I've already given them their money once? If my favourite PSX game gets a scratch on it, and I can't play it anymore, should I be able to download it from somewhere for free, because I've already bought it and I'm just replacing one that I paid for that doesn't work anymore. It's the same thing. Believe me, as someone who has lots of friends in the music industry (that's one of them in my avatar), I'm very touchy about this issue. As for Lars, he did the wrong thing for the right reasons. Most recording artists get little or no money from the sales of their records. If people are just downloading them, they get even less. That Dilbert strip is genius. Everyone who thinks that bands and recording artists get it easy, and that stealing music is okay, should read this:

http://www.bmusic.com.au/links/industry/archives/ararchiv/salbini.htm

There's some strong language in this article. If you can't be bothered reading it all, at least scroll to the bottom and read the part about how much a band makes from their records.

Ah, the dilemma, is it legal or not?  The big issue seems to be the RIAA doesn't care alot if you are downloading songs, but they get their panties in a twist if you try to burn them on CD or other type of media.

I download songs for my own personal use.  I primarily listen to them on my computer.  I do, on occasion, make compilation CDs for my own use, and to share with friends who do not have the same luxury that I have.  To me, it's the same principal.  I have downloaded those songs to listen to.  Not to sell, or make money off of.  That is no different than listening to it on the radio.  The only difference is I get to choose what I listen to instead of having someone choose for me.

The bottom line is this:  The songs I download I would not buy at a store anyway.  If the whole CD is good, I will buy it.  If it is not good, I will not buy a full CD for one lousy song.  If file sharing was completely done away with, I would still not buy Good Charlotte's CD just because I like "Hold On."  I would just skip it.

And the $1.00 I would pay to purchase a downloadable song only hits the artist for about a nickel or less anyway.  So Lars can just shove his nickel because I would never download any of Metallica's crap anyway!

There.  I feel much better now.  I'm going to go listen to some music of my choice!   8)

My opinion is that if I have already bought the recording on vinyl or cassette, and I want to download a copy to run on my MP-3 player, I do not see that as "theft" at all. I've paid the recording artist and record company for a legal "copy" of the work. Morally I see no problem.


OK, what if you could download automobiles?  The one I own is a piece of junk, but it's paid for.  If I throw it away am I entitled to a new vehicle just cuz I already paid for one?

Not saying downloading is right or wrong, just food for thought.