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Subject: Problems with higher learning education centers
What problems did you have with your college or university? Right now I am attending SPC (formerly St. Petersburg Junior College) a community college that just started offering 4 year degrees as of last year. The program looks good and is filling in the gaps of the local university (USF) University of South Florida to which I went to and was highly dissapointed and the reason for this topic.
Yes, I said USF to which you have probably heard since the U has been in the news as of late for the dismissal of Dr. Sami Al-Arian, a tenured professor of computer science and engineering who is currently under federal indictment for being a leader of the terrorist organization, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and specifically for fundraising, policy-making, and co-ordination (via front groups) of the North American activities of the organization.(of which I agree with). If you want to read more on that topic as well as the American Association of University Professors condemming USF's decision to disbar him, click here:
http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/713
Back to my problem. The professors at USF seemed to be more into research or publishing works than thier own classes, are never in thier offices with posted office hours, and the student assistants who end up teaching the class for them, can't teach due to language barriers (not that they didnt know thier subjects, they did, but couldnt put it in terms for the class to understand since most were Arabian, Indian or chinese and could barely speak English.) I and about 50 other students in the computer engineering college complained to the administration, but nothing changed. The Instructors didnt care, the administration didnt care, so I stopped careing as well, and went back to SPC (where I obtained my A.A. from) I am happy for the most part but the upper level courses for my B.S. technology management degree are all offered in modmester courses (8 week courses as opposed to the regular 16 (Fall/Spring) and 10 week (Summer) semesters).
So in my first modmester course I took this summer, along with 9 hours of other courses which are prereqs for other core classes, I am pulling my hair out!!! Our class is divided up into groups of 5, my group is down to 2 allready, so the work is almost tripled for each of us. The prof wont break us up into other groups, he claims that its easier since we dont have to co-ordinate as much. What a load of bull! :P
What problems did you have during your college days?
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
As a History major I had very few problems in college, except with registering for the courses I wanted. I solved that one by becoming friends with the secretaries who controlled the "admit cards".
Your language problems are a very legit gripe, and in part stem from the paucity of science education in this country, which gives Asians especially an advantage for teaching assistantships (my college denied tenure to a brillient mathamatician, after providing her with several language courses, because her students couldn't understand her).
The problem of balancing research and teaching is a difficult one. Big universities require research and publication for tenure - and that's their focus. If you chose to attend such a place, you can expect not to see them much. On the other hand, smaller colleges, like mine which is teaching centered, often can't provide either the advanced hardware, and in some cases even the expertise you might need in highly technical areas. Its a tough choice for both students and faculty. Personally, I dedicate the two semesters during the school year to my teaching - carefully reading papers, preparing classes, meeting with students, advising, etc. The summers are MINE for reading, research and writing (I also get in some sailing and fishing ;D). And this enriches my teaching. Right now I am reading a book that will alter the way I teach comparative slavery in the west. I will include Brazil, Virginia, and now add Cuba to the comparison.
You have some legitimate gripes, but you also need to see the professors' side of things.
Good luck with your education!
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
Thanks Don, sorry I didnt reply to this sooner. This summer semester has me pulling my hair out taking 12 credits!!
I see your points and raise you some. I think that "nitch" colleges are finding the happy medium between the teaching oriented community colleges and the research/publishing universities. One that comes to mind is University of Phoenix. This college caters to the working individual (infact that is a prerequisite of the college is that you must be employed-and I can see why for the cost of tuition is equal that of any ivy league school) Thier classes are 8 weeks long and are one night a week (this was thier schedule back in '01 when I was interested and before St. Petersburg Jr. College became St. Pete College and started to offer 4 year bachelor degrees) U of P started to offer engineering courses as well as usual business, management, networking classes that all small colleges seem to offer. This seems to work for most employed people, and St Petersburg college decided to jump on the bandwagon and offer thier own 8 week courses as well but online. (I for one, prefer a 16 week course instead of an 8 week grueling course.)
I can understand the need of research, since it seems that the large part of many universities funding comes from such, but the requirement for continual publication??? I would like to see funding for U's come from the percentage of students graduating (I know, I know, dream on right?) I think that if all U's concentrated on the amount of learning like the new schools that are cropping up in India and are blowing our major universities out of the water, we would all be better off!
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
My experiance is a class is about as good as the person teaching it. What I would like to see is the student government or student paper keep a running poll of what students had to say about specific teachers, and open these databases to prospective students before registering. We had something like that where I went to school, but the university shut us down and threatened us with disciplinary action. Some of the professors with negative remarks had their classes canceled because of low enrollment. I think that just because someone has a masters or ph.d. does not mean they are qualified to teach. Teachers should like what they are doing and like being around lots of young people. Whenever I walked into a class and saw a professor with a pile of old, dusty overheads and scantron sheets, I knew I was in trouble.
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
Im currently attending UCF, the University of Central Florida, as I have just finished my first year in the fall and the springs and am now taking summer classes and have to agree with some of your complaints especially the one on the language barrier as I am a computer engineering student. I also find some of these less collegiate schools to be boring for someone looking for that collegiate atmosphere. UCF is commonly referred to as a commuter school where hardly anyone, excluding freshmen who still aren't living on campus in drones, lives on campus and after classes are over there is hardly anything to do on campus. Also UCF does not have enough on campus housing so as a freshmen I had to live off campus across the street from the school making it very difficult to make new friends. Also the roomate matching in the apartment complex that became university affiliated during the spring of my first year in college had a terrible roomate matching form which left me with 3 guys that I shared no common interests with. I now live on campus in an apartment for the summer but since I didnt make many new friends during the fall and spring since I didnt live in the dorms I lived with 1 friend and 2 random people in the apartments over the summer. I would highly recommend that if you are looking for a collegiate atmosphere to check out the university and make sure it is a college town and live on campus as you will have much more fun that way. Im transferring to the University of Florida for the fall and will be living on campus so I hope to have more fun there as it is also a college town. I also have to complain about the ease of the cirriculum at UCF as it probably is at alot of other non top 50 colleges in the country. UF is around 50 so it challenge me more in the academic area. Those are my biggest complaints about college as they are non collegiate atmospheres, not enough on campus housing, the academics not being challenging enough, and the language barrier in the technology based classes.
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
Quoting:
My experiance is a class is about as good as the person teaching it. What I would like to see is the student government or student paper keep a running poll of what students had to say about specific teachers, and open these databases to prospective students before registering. We had something like that where I went to school, but the university shut us down and threatened us with disciplinary action. Some of the professors with negative remarks had their classes canceled because of low enrollment. I think that just because someone has a masters or ph.d. does not mean they are qualified to teach. Teachers should like what they are doing and like being around lots of young people. Whenever I walked into a class and saw a professor with a pile of old, dusty overheads and scantron sheets, I knew I was in trouble.
End Quote
And to Arcfire too.
John, you are absolutely right. The professor makes or breaks the course. One who is interested in the material, and commited to student learning can make any material interesting, even if you start out thinking "this is going to s...". As some students do, especially in required courses. But "old notes"? I base my lectures on the Declaration of Independence, for example, on Gary Wills"s book Inventing America and on the methodology of documentary analysis. Nothing that I have read has convinced me that this approach should change, so those notes are old. I change my lectures when new research suggests that I should. Readings this summer have lead to updating (new notes) for several subjects in a few classes. My point is, don't pre-judge by the apparent age of the notes or overheads etc. DO judge on the coherence of your professor's analysis, command of the material, and ability to encourage and deal with student input. I see my role as a guide, not as a fount of all wisdom. That means that students need to take an active part in their education.
Arcfire, I teach at a small 4 year college that is student centered, not research oriented. Not to disparage community colleges, but their standards are sometimes lower than ours for faculty. But as John points out, it's not the letyters after ones name that makes a great teacher. I have more than the Ph.D (also ABD in sociology) but I am NOT a degree snob. You do address several problems in higher education that need to be addressed. I don't know what solutions might be, but hope my posts help you understand the situation from the faculty perspective. Mostly, I think, we want the same things - to learn on your part, and to facilitate learning on ours.
Again, good luck in your education.
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
Um...
The, uh, the visitation policy at my college says I can't have a girl in my room after midnight on weekdays. That really bugs me.
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
Quoting:
Um...
The, uh, the visitation policy at my college says I can't have a girl in my room after midnight on weekdays. That really bugs me.
End Quote
A religious school?
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
Quoting:
Um...
The, uh, the visitation policy at my college says I can't have a girl in my room after midnight on weekdays. That really bugs me.
End Quote
And even if it was a religious school, or any school for that matter, how the heck do they expect to enforce it unless they Big Brother you?
I remember visiting Oral Roberts (VERY conservative religious school) and waiting in the lobby of my friend's dorm. There was a huge enclosed glass bubble that was the "communal area" but then there were signs that said "No men beyond this point" at the girl's section and vice versa on the other section. It was like God would strike you down with a mutant death ray if you crossed that line. Crazy.
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
Quoting:
Arcfire, I teach at a small 4 year college that is student centered, not research oriented. Not to disparage community colleges, but their standards are sometimes lower than ours for faculty. But as John points out, it's not the letyters after ones name that makes a great teacher. I have more than the Ph.D (also ABD in sociology) but I am NOT a degree snob. You do address several problems in higher education that need to be addressed. I don't know what solutions might be, but hope my posts help you understand the situation from the faculty perspective. Mostly, I think, we want the same things - to learn on your part, and to facilitate learning on ours.
Again, good luck in your education.
End Quote
Thanks for the reply DC! I will say this for SPC, when it was SPJC it was in the top 10 in the nation constantly and is #1 in FL. I would like to think that our program here is pretty good and consistant when compared to other colleges (both 4 year colleges and Universities). As I have stated before that I think that SPC made the move to a 4 year college was to fill the nitch needed by a good 4 year school (like yours I am sure) since places like University of Pheonix are booming (at least before 911) An institution that will concentrate on its students rather than chasing the elusive need to publish or the right to research for funding. But enough about those complaints, what is your (or anyone's) view on the U of Michigan's stand on its entry policy?
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
My view of affirmative action is that it is a good thing, if implemented correctly. First, people of color have historically been left out of higher education more than any other group. Second, diversity in the classroom, with students of different backgounds (racial, cultural, ethnic, whatever) enriches everyone's experience - including mine. I do oppose quotas, but I favor preferential admissions. Those who have been disadvantaged should get a break, and that includes white working class kids.
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
Quoting:
A religious school?
End Quote
No. God, no.
Quoting:And even if it was a religious school, or any school for that matter, how the heck do they expect to enforce it unless they Big Brother you?End Quote
The RA's hear a non-male voice coming from a guy's room, they knock, and if they see a girl in there when the door opens, you get written up. Or, if you're hanging out in a female friend's room with a group of friends, and it gets time to leave but it's past midnight, and one of you goes to check to make sure there are no RA's but then another friend -- the pity friend who no one really likes because he's a stupid idiot -- barges past and yanks open the door right in front of an RA, everyone gets written up.
Subject: Re: Problems with higher learning education center
There is a latin phrase - en locus parenti - which applies here. You are living in the college's space, and the college has the right to set the rules under which you are suppose to behave. If you don't like the rules, move off campus. Simple as that.