http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/friends-netflix-sexist-racist-transphobic-problematic-millenials-watch-a8154626.html

The thing nobody catches here is that The Independent took three, count em THREE, obscure tweets with like 10 retweets and likes each, then constructed an entire article around these three obscure tweets saying "Millennials are offended by Friends!" and tried to portray the opinions of millions around the opinions of three, to get more traffic from the outrage police.

Is modern journalism dead?

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/friends-netflix-sexist-racist-transphobic-problematic-millenials-watch-a8154626.html

The thing nobody catches here is that The Independent took three, count em THREE, obscure tweets with like 10 retweets and likes each, then constructed an entire article around these three obscure tweets saying "Millennials are offended by Friends!" and tried to portray the opinions of millions around the opinions of three, to get more traffic from the outrage police.

Is modern journalism dead?


There are two things to be said here.

1) Yes, modern journalism is basically dead  in many ways. "Fake news" is rampant.

2) The Independent may only have taken three tweets, but it underscores a rather prevalent problem, that of PRESENTISM.
The judging of prior things by today's standards. Things considered homophobic, sexist, transphobic, etc today may not have been considered as such during the era "Friends" was in production.  It's like people watching "I Love Lucy" and saying "I can't watch that, it's so sexist! What were they thinking??". It was 1951 for heaven's sake. They were NOT thinking the way people do today. Presentism!

Millennials watched Friends on its original run. We're not that young lol.

I agree with those tweets though. Whenever I rewatch some episodes of Friends, I can't help but cringe. Times have changed since then. It was a really progressive show for its time, though, I won't forget that.

It's interesting this topic is brought up because as another example, it's much easier for me to stomach Martha Reeves and the Vandellas demanding, "every guy grab a girl" in "Dancing in the Street" than it is for me to tolerate Bruno Mars' brand new new-jack swing duet with Cardi B, where he demands, "fellas, grab your ladies if your lady fine" and "ladies, grab your fellas and let's do this right." The former came out way back in 1964, a year in which homosexuality was such a taboo that it wasn't even legal in most of the Western world. As for the latter, however? Come on, it's 2018. Lots and lots of people, especially those outside the conservative christian universe, are openly LGBTQ, and to hear Bruno Mars make such an appallingly heteronormative assumption about all of his listeners, after roughly half a century of massive progress, is just absolutely disgusting and has literally ruined the song for me personally. Martha Reeves was just playing by the normal boundaries of her era; Bruno Mars, on the other hand, is apparently not only backwards in his taste in music, but also disgustingly regressive in his understanding of social context. Songs meant for mass consumption should be in-touch with the time period they were released, so the political implications of "Finesse (Remix)" are far more insulting, in my view, to LGBTQ rights than the contextually benign lyrics in "Dancing in the Street."

Millennials watched Friends on its original run. We're not that young lol.

I agree with those tweets though. Whenever I rewatch some episodes of Friends, I can't help but cringe. Times have changed since then. It was a really progressive show for its time, though, I won't forget that.


That's the important thing to remember.  Friends offended the conservatives of its time.  It was a liberal show for the '90s.  Even a decade later we had stuff like Superbad, which has some very politically incorrect content by today's standards.

This is where I really think the SJWs take things too far.  Some political correctness is a good thing but not everything can be sanitized.  It's destroying the arts.

It's interesting this topic is brought up because as another example, it's much easier for me to stomach Martha Reeves and the Vandellas demanding, "every guy grab a girl" in "Dancing in the Street" than it is for me to tolerate Bruno Mars' brand new new-jack swing duet with Cardi B, where he demands, "fellas, grab your ladies if your lady fine" and "ladies, grab your fellas and let's do this right." The former came out way back in 1964, a year in which homosexuality was such a taboo that it wasn't even legal in most of the Western world. As for the latter, however? Come on, it's 2018. Lots and lots of people, especially those outside the conservative christian universe, are openly LGBTQ, and to hear Bruno Mars make such an appallingly heteronormative assumption about all of his listeners, after roughly half a century of massive progress, is just absolutely disgusting and has literally ruined the song for me personally. Martha Reeves was just playing by the normal boundaries of her era; Bruno Mars, on the other hand, is apparently not only backwards in his taste in music, but also disgustingly regressive in his understanding of social context. Songs meant for mass consumption should be in-touch with the time period they were released, so the political implications of "Finesse (Remix)" are far more insulting, in my view, to LGBTQ rights than the contextually benign lyrics in "Dancing in the Street."


I typically agree with you but I just don't think this is a big deal.  I really don't think the arts should be sanitized period, whether it's left-wing or right-wing political correctness.  If they are out of touch with the culture, they won't sell.  That's how pop culture and music evolves to begin with.

I am not Millennial, I am not offended by "Friends", and I am continuing to watch the series!

I have given up reading into the press reports, I take the world as it is.

I typically agree with you but I just don't think this is a big deal.  I really don't think the arts should be sanitized period, whether it's left-wing or right-wing political correctness.  If they are out of touch with the culture, they won't sell.  That's how pop culture and music evolves to begin with.


It's just that I feel it's been several years since there was last really a new pop hit that had that type of exclusionary presumptuousness in its lyrics, so it really came out of the blue for me. As a woman who happens to harbour attraction towards other women (I've disowned the "lesbian" label because it just feels wrong and confining to me), I get sick of queer people like myself getting casually erased so easily, particularly when general attitudes have evolved enough to the point where it's unnecessary. I don't know. I just don't understand why I'm seemingly the only person so bothered by this.

I am not Millennial, I am not offended by "Friends", and I am continuing to watch the series!

I have given up reading into the press reports, I take the world as it is.


I watch Friends on TBS when it's in repeats.

Millennials watched Friends on its original run. We're not that young lol.

I thought maybe it's just another case of Millennials being lumped with kids/teens, but the person writing one of those tweets is 25 according to their Twitter, so the article was technically right.

Also another Tweeter they cited said he was in uni in the 90s, so that probably makes him in his 40s (i.e. not Millennial). But people in their 40s getting lumped with Millennials isn't new either; to grumpy older people who write thinkpieces, anyone under 50 is a Millennial.

I thought maybe it's just another case of Millennials being lumped with kids/teens, but the person writing one of those tweets is 25 according to their Twitter, so the article was technically right.

Also another Tweeter they cited said he was in uni in the 90s, so that probably makes him in his 40s (i.e. not Millennial). But people in their 40s getting lumped with Millennials isn't new either; to grumpy older people who write thinkpieces, anyone under 50 is a Millennial.


The subheading says the "show offends a new generation" and the whole article assumes it's  Millennials' first exposure to the show, even though the 25 year old said she was rewatching it. It was the most popular show when I was in middle school (and people would NOT shut up about Ross and Rachel) so I wouldn't be surprised if she caught it in its original run. Friends isn't some old TV show our parents watched, it's partly ours! ;D

And yeah that 40something isn't even millennial. Ironically he seemed to be the most upset about the show. The other said the jokes made them uncomfortable but the Gen Xer was the only one who said they straight up couldn't watch it.


That's the important thing to remember.  Friends offended the conservatives of its time.  It was a liberal show for the '90s.  Even a decade later we had stuff like Superbad, which has some very politically incorrect content by today's standards.

This is where I really think the SJWs take things too far.  Some political correctness is a good thing but not everything can be sanitized.  It's destroying the arts.


Well, no one in the tweets said the show was evil. It's understandable that a crude gay joke worthy of a roaring laugh track in 1994 would make people wince in 2018, that's what the tweets are about. I don't think the SJWs have gone too far. I actually hear all the time people saying they and their group of friends or their city/country wasn't homophobic in the '90s, but Friends is a good reminder as to what passed for "not homophobic" in the '90s even among progressive circles. It's still very casually homophobic by today's standards. It's good to know history is not being whitewashed.

I'm a fat guy. Fat jokes will always be at least half funny to me!  :-X  :-X  :-X

I'm a fat guy. Fat jokes will always be at least half funny to me!  :-X  :-X  :-X


Yeah, when did fat jokes become taboo? Left wingers make fun of Trump's obesity all the time. Even I have commented on his frog throat on occasion. He's become Pepe.

2) The Independent may only have taken three tweets, but it underscores a rather prevalent problem, that of PRESENTISM.
The judging of prior things by today's standards. Things considered homophobic, sexist, transphobic, etc today may not have been considered as such during the era "Friends" was in production.  It's like people watching "I Love Lucy" and saying "I can't watch that, it's so sexist! What were they thinking??". It was 1951 for heaven's sake. They were NOT thinking the way people do today. Presentism!


I mean you say that, but let's look at The Birth of a Nation (1915) for a moment. At the time it was lauded as a cinematic marvel and basically invented a lot of conventions we take for granted nowadays. On the other hand, there are really strong white supremacist themes, not even stopping short of the KKK, who are framed as the heroes of the film.

To some extent I agree with what you're saying, but I also believe there are works that are so abhorrent that we shouldn't give them the benefit of the consideration of their coming from their particular time.

Yeah, when did fat jokes become taboo? Left wingers make fun of Trump's obesity all the time. Even I have commented on his frog throat on occasion. He's become Pepe.


According to the article, someone wasn't fond of the fat Monica jokes. So.....

According to the article, someone wasn't fond of the fat Monica jokes. So.....


cause she was pregnant, she wasn't fat.

cause she was pregnant, she wasn't fat.
No spoilers please!

cause she was pregnant, she wasn't fat.


She wasn't pregnant :o

I don't know if you remember, but she is infertile (or it's very difficult for her to get pregnant). That's why she and Chandler went for adoption.
In the show's finale, they finally get to see their baby (although the audience doesn't grr).

She was fat because she was fat as a teenager. That's why Chandler (or any guy) didn't like her back then. ;D

cause she was pregnant, she wasn't fat.


Yes, I'm not overweight, I'm just pregnant.  :(  :(  :(

She wasn't pregnant :o

I don't know if you remember, but she is infertile (or it's very difficult for her to get pregnant). That's why she and Chandler went for adoption.
In the show's finale, they finally get to see their baby (although the audience doesn't grr).

She was fat because she was fat as a teenager. That's why Chandler (or any guy) didn't like her back then. ;D
Thank you!

No spoilers please!


Sorry Phil.

Sorry Phil.
I'll let you know when I reach episode 236.