From my impression 1997 was almost purely Gen X but a slightly watered down version of it. There were also specks of Millennial culture.
1998 seemed like a mix of the watered down Gen X culture and Millennial culture to me.

Well...it was SOOO Gen-X, that I forgot to laugh! And I used 90s slang! Woot!


Hahaha rotfl!

From my impression 1997 was almost purely Gen X but a slightly watered down version of it. There were also specks of Millennial culture.

Almost purely Gen-X? ???

I think it can be easily argued that '97 was overall more targeted towards X than Y, but it was also the first full year during which millennial influences were cornerstone to popular culture. Teen pop bands like the Spice Girls, Backstreet Boys, Hanson, and Savage Garden were all dominating the pop charts in addition to Puff Daddy and Mase, who were still pretty retro but we're lyrically much more 21st century than their predecessors. No Limit was also far more popular than Death Row. A lot of the year's biggest r&b and hip hop songs already sounded like they belonged in the 2000s, such as "You Make Me Wanna," "What About Us," and "Up Jumps da Boogie." Rock was quickly moving past grunge, with softer or poppies groups like Smash Mouth, Matchbox 20, and Third Eye Blind replacing R.E.M., the Cranberries, Better Than Ezra, and the like, although there were still a lot of classic 90s alternative groups who remained popular through the end of the decade. To be fair, the teen pop and materialistic syncopated urban was balanced out by a large number of melodious ballads that scored big that year, but I think it's still pretty obvious that there was a lot of music that year targeting a different generation than the one that grew up with Nirvana, 2Pac, and new-jack swing.

Television in 1997 was also quite transitional. While Gen-X staples like Seinfeld, classic Simpsons, and Beavis & Butthead weren't over yet, you already had shows like Sabrina the Teenage Witch, South Park, King of the Hill, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Daria. There was no Dawson's Creek or Sex and the City yet, but the core foundations were definitely there, regardless.

Fashion in 1997 hadn't quite yet fully developed its millennial identity yet, but the dark colors, patchy textures, flannels, and general grunginess of late Gen-X were hardly noticeable anymore. I'm a sense, 1997 was the 90s equivalent to 2009-2011, which also had little identity to its fashion.

All things considered, while 1997 was probably a bit more X than Y, the culture aimed at millennialist certainly had more than a minute presence. Your description is much more fitting of 1996, which was almost entirely X, but the grunge, gangsta rap, Simpsons, pre-Internet vibes were just starting to wind down, not to mention "No Diggity," " If Your Girl Only Knew," and "Pony" were really popular songs towards the end of the year. There were also a ton of significant television premieres in 1996, though they hadn't really established a different general culture yet.

1998 seemed like a mix of the watered down Gen X culture and Millennial culture to me.

That's pretty much how I'd describe 1997 as well, except 1998 was the first full year that overall leaned more towards Y than X.

Why does it matter if 1997 and 1998 was more Gen X than Y? They're barely noticeable, not to mention that they had almost the same culture for crying out loud.

Basically,
1997: X/Y, leaned more towards X
1998: X/Y, leaned more towards Y
and 1999: Beginning of Early Y

Basically,
1997: X/Y, leaned more towards X
1998: X/Y, leaned more towards Y
and 1999: Beginning of Early Y


I agree with that now. 1996 seemed like the last full Gen X year.

Why does it matter if 1997 and 1998 was more Gen X than Y? They're barely noticeable, not to mention that they had almost the same culture for crying out loud.


Because I wanna make comparisons in this era so I can compare when the culture will turn Z

Because I wanna make comparisons in this era so I can compare when the culture will turn Z


But it wouldn't be that noticeable. I feel like this culture has already pandering to Y/Z cusps, so why does it matter to you so much about transitions?

Looking at these, I agree with the viewpoint that 1997 leaned towards X and 1998 with Y. One feature that has not been discussed is the movies released around that time.

Having a good talk with Infinity, I told her that certain movies were for different audiences. For instance, movies like Can't Hardly Wait, Pleasantville, The Hairy Bird, Brink and Halloweentown seem like more for the Millennials than Xers. OTOH, films such as IKWYDLS, Nowhere, Eve's Bayou, Scream 2 and Going All The Way present more of a X generation atmosphere.

Now even though 1999 is not part of the topic, that year is definitely Millennial environment. Everything from TV shows, movies, music and even fashion just screams Echo Boomer.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but my post relates to how Gen X the culture was in 1997 and 1998. I would like to hear your opinion on this, because it's something that I have been thinking about for a few months now and I haven't been able to come to a definitive conclusion over it. We know when Millennial culture began to emerge in mainstream music in the US and UK; how would you describe the split between Gen X and Millennial culture in Australian music between 1996-2000? The videos (which I made) are below:

1994-1996 : Australian Releases which peaked in Top-40 (1996 is from 6:37 onwards)
1997-1999 : Australian Releases which peaked in Top 40
2000-2002: Australian Releases which peaked in Top-40

This is how I would personally break it down:

1996: Mostly Gen X, however the first signs of Millennial music began to emerge, with Savage Garden releasing their first hit single in the year.
1997: Mostly Gen X. I actually think that 1997 was more Gen X than 1996, especially with the greater presence of Grunge compared to the previous year and the "dark" nature of a lot of the music videos.
1998: Mostly Gen X. Grunge had disappeared by this point, however I personally believe that most of the songs, such as "Sway", "Now and Then" and "Save The Day", target Gen X more than Millennials.
1999: Mostly Millennial, but with somewhat of a Gen X influence. This is when things really started to change, in my opinion.
2000: First pure Millennial cultural year in Australian music.

I would love to hear your opinion in regards to it. I apologize for this being Australian related, but i'm interested to know what other people think of the transition between Gen X-Millennials in Australian music, especially seeing as though i'm unsure of it. Obviously the videos aren't entirely reflective on the culture, because of other pop culture such as Dawson's Creek, NSYNC, teen-pop etc. also being popular.

In your opinion, when would you say that the transition happened? I don't mean to be demanding, but I would really like to hear someone else's opinion in regards to it.

My mom (born 1967) thinks the transition was 1997,when Aqua, Hanson, and the Spice Girls invaded the U.S.

1993-1994 school year: Absolutely X
1994-1995 school year: X/Y, mostly X
1995-1996 school year: X/Y, leaning X
1996-1997 school year: X/Y cusp
1997-1998 school year: X/Y, leaning Y
1998-1999 school year: X/Y, mostly Y
1999-2000 school year: Absolutely Y

Roughly the second half of 1996 through the first half of 2000. The threshhold was crossed around mid-late 1998.

I don't claim to be a scientific expert on this type of thing, but here are a few key things that factored into the transition.

August 1996 - Aaliyah releases "If Your Girl Only Knew," Timbaland's breakthrough production and the first distinctly millennial-flavored pop song. There were other, more borderline tracks that immediately preceded it (i.e., the Spice Girls' "Wannabe" in the UK), but this was the first that truly broke ties with most dance-pop at the time and would have sounded fairly at home for a huge chunk of the 2000s.

September 1996 - 2Pac is murdered in Las Vegas. Blackstreet releases "No Diggity," which soon tops the Hot 100 and has much more of a millennial theme to it, being one of the first mainstream hits to use the word 'shorty' (later stylized more frequently as 'shawty'), featuring more hardcore guest rap verses, and having a significantly diminished focus on melody versus syncopation than previous club songs.

December 1996 - Scream hits theaters.

February 1997 - A huge month for musical shifts in America. "Wannabe" kicks off the teen pop craze in America, Puff Daddy and Mase's "Can't Nobody Hold Me Down" starts the trend of mainstream hip hop being hedonostically materialistic instead of rebelliously gangsta, the last hit grunge song ("Blow Up the Outside World" by Soundgarden) falls off the charts, and No Limit Records replaces Death Row as Bad Boy's rival label, solidifying the Dirty South's dominance of rap for yeara to come and evolving gangsta rap into something more repetitive and less melodious.

March 1997 - Biggie is murdered in Los Angeles.

August 1997 - South Park debuts on television.

August 1998 - The iMac is released.

1999 - In general, millennial culture took over the world by storm by this point. The lingering Gen-X music movements were shifted out of the forefront of the mainstream, while distinctly millennial ones assumed their place. Teen pop's peak, nu-metal, Eminem, blink-182, Latin pop, Timbaland-inspired hip hop, etc., were all dominating the charts instead of your classic grungy rock songs, arena ballads, and old school style rap songs (sans Will Smith). TV was mostly populated by newer shows rather than older ones. The Matrix was the most influential film of the year, while American Pie was the biggest comedy.

2000 - There may have been a vaguely 90s echo to this year, but almost everything adolescent-centric was geared towards millennials. It was definitely the age of the Internet, and whatever angsty spirit that specifically began with Gen-X was a faded memory by this point.

Most of the other factors are either blurry or just not that important.

I agree with the points people have raised. However, how would all of you describe the transition in Australian music (as per the videos I shared above)? ;)

I'm genuinely curious to know what other people think of it.

Based off  the videos I shared above, would you still say that 1998 was more Gen X than Millennial in Australian music? How would you describe the transition between Gen X to Millennials? Like I said, i'm genuinely interested to know what other people think of it, because we know what the transition was like in US music and UK music, but it has never been discussed with Australian music. Not only that, but I made those videos as well! :P

To me Gen Y culture began roughly around late 1998.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but my post relates to how Gen X the culture was in 1997 and 1998. I would like to hear your opinion on this, because it's something that I have been thinking about for a few months now and I haven't been able to come to a definitive conclusion over it. We know when Millennial culture began to emerge in mainstream music in the US and UK; how would you describe the split between Gen X and Millennial culture in Australian music between 1996-2000? The videos (which I made) are below:

1994-1996 : Australian Releases which peaked in Top-40 (1996 is from 6:37 onwards)
1997-1999 : Australian Releases which peaked in Top 40
2000-2002: Australian Releases which peaked in Top-40

This is how I would personally break it down:

1996: Mostly Gen X, however the first signs of Millennial music began to emerge, with Savage Garden releasing their first hit single in the year.
1997: Mostly Gen X. I actually think that 1997 was more Gen X than 1996, especially with the greater presence of Grunge compared to the previous year and the "dark" nature of a lot of the music videos.
1998: Mostly Gen X. Grunge had disappeared by this point, however I personally believe that most of the songs, such as "Sway", "Now and Then" and "Save The Day", target Gen X more than Millennials.
1999: Mostly Millennial, but with somewhat of a Gen X influence. This is when things really started to change, in my opinion.
2000: First pure Millennial cultural year in Australian music.

I would love to hear your opinion in regards to it. I apologize for this being Australian related, but i'm interested to know what other people think of the transition between Gen X-Millennials in Australian music, especially seeing as though i'm unsure of it. Obviously the videos aren't entirely reflective on the culture, because of other pop culture such as Dawson's Creek, NSYNC, teen-pop etc. also being popular.
Yeah, a little slower than usual, I mean, I find that a surprising amount of the 1999 songs sounded like they were from 1997. Yes, I know, Savage Garden's songs may have been the first ones in these videos with Gen-Y influence, but it's as if even the cheesy teen pop songs weren't as garishly Millennial as the ones abroad. For example, 10:11 in the second video may be teen pop, albeit of the Hanson kind and less the Britney/*NSYNC kind, and only the song following that one was the first one to sound like it was almost the early '00s, and even that one was when it was almost 2000. BTW, Burn, Buses and Trains, and Sway are still evergreens/karaoke favorites in my country.

Oh, in my country, local music could sound really really old, and not like in a "so 2 years ago'' sort of way, but rather in an "a decade or two or even three late" sort of way, but I think it's more by choice because even after the Internet became popular, it's still like that, mostly because of the Filipino love for love songs. Then again, not everyone here listens to local music, especially if one fancies themselves to be all posh and Westernized. I mean, I've seen your chart recaps of '00s Australian songs and there was no longer a 1 or 2 year delay anymore, probably because of the Internet or something.

Yeah, a little slower than usual, I mean, I find that a surprising amount of the 1999 songs sounded like they were from 1997. Yes, I know, Savage Garden's songs may have been the first ones in these videos with Gen-Y influence, but it's as if even the cheesy teen pop songs weren't as garishly Millennial as the ones abroad. For example, 10:11 in the second video may be teen pop, albeit of the Hanson kind and less the Britney/*NSYNC kind, and only the song following that one was the first one to sound like it was almost the early '00s, and even that one was when it was almost 2000. BTW, Burn, Buses and Trains, and Sway are still evergreens/karaoke favorites in my country.


Thank you for responding. :)

It's interesting to hear that "Burn" is really popular in the Philippines. The only Tina Arena songs which are popular down here are "Chains" and "Sorrento Moon", but even they wouldn't be viewed as being karaoke favourites! I agree that very few of the teen pop songs sound as cheesy as Britney and NSYNC. Apart from the Madison Avenue song you suggested, the only other songs which would fit the same category are 2:45, 5:47 and 7:22 in the third video.


Oh, in my country, local music could sound really really old, and not like in a "so 2 years ago'' sort of way, but rather in an "a decade or two or even three late" sort of way, but I think it's more by choice because even after the Internet became popular, it's still like that, mostly because of the Filipino love for love songs. Then again, not everyone here listens to local music, especially if one fancies themselves to be all posh and Westernized. I mean, I've seen your chart recaps of '00s Australian songs and there was no longer a 1 or 2 year delay anymore, probably because of the Internet or something.


That's interesting to hear, although I guess it's understandable due to the Philippines being a traditional Eastern cultural country. I would be interested to hear what Filipino music has sounded like throughout the past few decades, especially if a lot the songs sound a bit behind the times. :) Personally I think it's interesting to see how popular culture progresses in other countries. It can be intriguing to notice the similarities and differences.

I think the internet has played a part in changing the way mainstream music progresses. Grunge didn't exist in Australian music until Mid 1994, when Silverchair had a breakthrough with their first single "Tomorrow". However, with that said, US Grunge acts (such as Pearl Jam, Nirvana etc.) were popular in the mainstream and they had been since the same time as it broke into the mainstream in the US (Late 1991/Early 1992), but there were no Australian Grunge bands/artists in the Early 90s, at least not in the mainstream. It wasn't until 1995/96 that the "one or two year delay" in mainstream music started to diminish.

The influence of the internet on popular culture would also depend on the cultural values the country has, I think. For instance, Australia has always been a westernised country, so like the US and the UK, the general public would more than likely be more accepting of the influence of the internet and the change in popular culture, as a result of it. Whereas, in eastern countries such as the Philippines and Thailand, where each country's culture dates back to thousands of years respectively, the general public in those countries may be more reluctant to adopt to the changes. 

The influence of the internet on popular culture would also depend on the cultural values the country has, I think. For instance, Australia has always been a westernised country, so like the US and the UK, the general public would more than likely be more accepting of the influence of the internet and the change in popular culture, as a result of it. Whereas, in eastern countries such as the Philippines and Thailand, where each country's culture dates back to thousands of years respectively, the general public in those countries may be more reluctant to adopt to the changes.
I'm not sure about that being the case in the Philippines because of the heavy Spanish and American influences.

Sorry to revive an old thread, but my post relates to how Gen X the culture was in 1997 and 1998. I would like to hear your opinion on this, because it's something that I have been thinking about for a few months now and I haven't been able to come to a definitive conclusion over it. We know when Millennial culture began to emerge in mainstream music in the US and UK; how would you describe the split between Gen X and Millennial culture in Australian music between 1996-2000? The videos (which I made) are below:

1994-1996 : Australian Releases which peaked in Top-40 (1996 is from 6:37 onwards)
1997-1999 : Australian Releases which peaked in Top 40
2000-2002: Australian Releases which peaked in Top-40

This is how I would personally break it down:

1996: Mostly Gen X, however the first signs of Millennial music began to emerge, with Savage Garden releasing their first hit single in the year.
1997: Mostly Gen X. I actually think that 1997 was more Gen X than 1996, especially with the greater presence of Grunge compared to the previous year and the "dark" nature of a lot of the music videos.
1998: Mostly Gen X. Grunge had disappeared by this point, however I personally believe that most of the songs, such as "Sway", "Now and Then" and "Save The Day", target Gen X more than Millennials.
1999: Mostly Millennial, but with somewhat of a Gen X influence. This is when things really started to change, in my opinion.
2000: First pure Millennial cultural year in Australian music.

I would love to hear your opinion in regards to it. I apologize for this being Australian related, but i'm interested to know what other people think of the transition between Gen X-Millennials in Australian music, especially seeing as though i'm unsure of it. Obviously the videos aren't entirely reflective on the culture, because of other pop culture such as Dawson's Creek, NSYNC, teen-pop etc. also being popular.
9:15- second video- Do you think it verges on sounding early '00s, or does it sound like it's part of the early part of the teen pop wave? I mean, I do know this 1996 song which gives off a similar vibe to it. mKK32ZB12bA

9:15- second video- Do you think it verges on sounding early '00s, or does it sound like it's part of the early part of the teen pop wave? I mean, I do know this 1996 song which gives off a similar vibe to it. mKK32ZB12bA


Is this the song you are referring too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHeXG4oiGp0

Personally I think it sounds more like Early 2000s pop music. I suppose it technically could be considered a teen pop song, but I wouldn't really categorize it in the same way as Hanson or Britney Spears.

mKK32ZB12bA


I think the song you shared has a lot more similarities with the Late 90s teen pop-wave than "Weir" does.

Is this the song you are referring too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHeXG4oiGp0

Personally I think it sounds more like Early 2000s pop music. I suppose it technically could be considered a teen pop song, but I wouldn't really categorize it in the same way as Hanson or Britney Spears.
Oops, my bad, I mean Sister.

It was still very Gen X then, sure some early Y influences but let's get real the OLDEST gen y were only what 15-16 years old then so just barely getting to be relevant in pop culture. Even 1999-2000 is mostly Gen X OVERALL or at least 50/50, 2001-2002 is probably when Y influence was taking off as they were hitting around 20 and many now in their teens while early Gen X was reaching mid 30s. It's gradual though there's not one specific year that goes from one generation to another.

It was still very Gen X then, sure some early Y influences but let's get real the OLDEST gen y were only what 15-16 years old then so just barely getting to be relevant in pop culture. Even 1999-2000 is mostly Gen X OVERALL or at least 50/50, 2001-2002 is probably when Y influence was taking off as they were hitting around 20 and many now in their teens while early Gen X was reaching mid 30s. It's gradual though there's not one specific year that goes from one generation to another.


What year do you think had the absolute last residual Gen X presence?

What year do you think had the absolute last residual Gen X presence?


Probably as late as like 2003/2004 to be honest. Music was still pretty grungy then even if it was "watered down", it was still sorta Gen Xish. late '90s/early '00 is the "transition" though obviously, just like late '70s/early '80s being the boomer x transition. And many/most Gen X were still in their 20s in the early '00s, by mid '00s most all were over 30, so it was more clearly Gen Y by the mid '00s (2004/2005ish).

Probably as late as like 2003/2004 to be honest. Music was still pretty grungy then even if it was "watered down", it was still sorta Gen Xish. late '90s/early '00 is the "transition" though obviously, just like late '70s/early '80s being the boomer x transition. And many/most Gen X were still in their 20s in the early '00s, by mid '00s most all were over 30, so it was more clearly Gen Y by the mid '00s (2004/2005ish).


I think the rock in 2003 was pretty Gen X but the rest was Gen Y.  The rock had a very rebellious flavor to it at the time.

I think the rock in 2003 was pretty Gen X but the rest was Gen Y.


Yeah 2003 is probably more Gen Y overall, but I mean the year 2000 overall I think is probably still MOSTLY Gen X even if some teen pop stuff was around then. I always thought the year 2000 seemed kinda really old even in like 2006 to be honest (a lot older than 2003 for example even). I mean I was only 12/13 then and just barely aware of pop culture (in 2000) and I'm still one of the OLDER millennials.

Looking back at my old post, I'm beginning to think that 1997 and '98 leaned towards the Millennials for many reasons.

1. Music: Not only was Teen pop targeted for Yers, the other genres were as well. Like Infinity stated, urban music went through a dramatic change. There's no way songs such as You Make Me Wanna, What About Us, Gettin Jiggy With It and Are You that Somebody could have been for Gen X. For Rock, Jumper, Walkin on the Sun, Dammit What's it's Like, Pretty Fly (For a White Guy) and Iris were clearly for Millennials.

2. Movies: Cinema seem to be more in favor of Gen Y than X especially when the traits associated with the latter declined in consideration for teen movies. Good Burger, Spice World, Scream 2, Can't Hardly Wait, Rushmore, and Pleasantville are prime examples of films for Millennials.

3. TV Shows: The vibe for Gen X also dwindled entering a presence for Millennials. The way Sabrina the Teenage Witch, South Park, King of the Hill, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Daria are portrayed don't seem to be programs for Gen X.

I think many people seem to underestimate how much pop culture was targeted for Millennials in the late 90s. For one, the older ones were actually adolescents. Only the younger ones were young children. As for the MTV cohort, it's true that some were in their 20s; however, most of them are out of college by the time the late 90s appeared on the scene.

Looking back at my old post, I'm beginning to think that 1997 and '98 leaned towards the Millennials for many reasons.

1. Music: Not only was Teen pop targeted for Yers, the other genres were as well. Like Infinity stated, urban music went through a dramatic change. There's no way songs such as You Make Me Wanna, What About Us, Gettin Jiggy With It and Are You that Somebody could have been for Gen X. For Rock, Jumper, Walkin on the Sun, Dammit What's it's Like, Pretty Fly (For a White Guy) and Iris were clearly for Millennials.

2. Movies: Cinema seem to be more in favor of Gen Y than X especially when the traits associated with the latter declined in consideration for teen movies. Good Burger, Spice World, Scream 2, Can't Hardly Wait, Rushmore, and Pleasantville are prime examples of films for Millennials.

3. TV Shows: The vibe for Gen X also dwindled entering a presence for Millennials. The way Sabrina the Teenage Witch, South Park, King of the Hill, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Daria are portrayed don't seem to be programs for Gen X.

I think many people seem to underestimate how much pop culture was targeted for Millennials in the late 90s. For one, the older ones were actually adolescents. Only the younger ones were young children. As for the MTV cohort, it's true that some were in their 20s; however, most of them are out of college by the time the late 90s appeared on the scene.


Daria was more of a Gen X show for sure, not to mention that it was a spinoff for one of the Beavis and Butthead characters.

Daria was more of a Gen X show for sure, not to mention that it was a spinoff for one of the Beavis and Butthead characters.
I think Beavis and Butthead was more of the Gen X show. When Daria hit, the pop culture was already leaning Millennial.

I think Beavis and Butthead was more of the Gen X show. When Daria hit, the pop culture was already leaning Millennial.


It was an XY cusper show. Daria and Jane seemed like Gen X characters in an early Millennial high school. It could be interpreted as Gen X reacting to the changing culture.

It was an XY cusper show. Daria and Jane seemed like Gen X characters in an early Millennial high school. It could be interpreted as Gen X reacting to the changing culture.


And Trent Lane was obviously Gen X, right?

Oops, my bad, I mean Sister.


Sorry for my late response. :( I would personally consider Sister to be early teen-pop.

Sorry for my late response. :( I would personally consider Sister to be early teen-pop.
You mean it's closer to 1997 than 2001 in style?

You mean it's closer to 1997 than 2001 in style?


Yep. I think it would have sounded a bit outdated by 2001.

Sorry for my late response. :( I would personally consider Sister to be early teen-pop.

Do you agree that it's similar in style to the 1996 Finnish song I posted?

Pretty much this:

Late 1994 - Mid 1997: Late X Culture (Main Late X Youth: b. Late 77'-Mid 80')

Late 1997 - Mid 1998: Ultimate X/Y Culture (Main X/Y Cuspers: b. Late 80'-Mid 81')

Late 1998 - Mid 2001: Early Y Culture (Main Early Y Youth: b. Late 81'-Mid 84')

Looking back at my old post, I'm beginning to think that 1997 and '98 leaned towards the Millennials for many reasons.

1. Music: Not only was Teen pop targeted for Yers, the other genres were as well. Like Infinity stated, urban music went through a dramatic change. There's no way songs such as You Make Me Wanna, What About Us, Gettin Jiggy With It and Are You that Somebody could have been for Gen X. For Rock, Jumper, Walkin on the Sun, Dammit What's it's Like, Pretty Fly (For a White Guy) and Iris were clearly for Millennials.

2. Movies: Cinema seem to be more in favor of Gen Y than X especially when the traits associated with the latter declined in consideration for teen movies. Good Burger, Spice World, Scream 2, Can't Hardly Wait, Rushmore, and Pleasantville are prime examples of films for Millennials.

3. TV Shows: The vibe for Gen X also dwindled entering a presence for Millennials. The way Sabrina the Teenage Witch, South Park, King of the Hill, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and Daria are portrayed don't seem to be programs for Gen X.

I think many people seem to underestimate how much pop culture was targeted for Millennials in the late 90s. For one, the older ones were actually adolescents. Only the younger ones were young children. As for the MTV cohort, it's true that some were in their 20s; however, most of them are out of college by the time the late 90s appeared on the scene.


I agree that 1997 and 1998 were when pop culture started to tilt heavily Millennial. There was certainly a shift in 1997 pop culturally, looking back on it now. You already mentioned the shows that debuted that year (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, King of the Hill, South Park, Sabrina the Teenage Witch) that had a decidedly more Gen Y "vibe" to them. Plus, the musical groups that broke into the mainstream in 1997 (Backstreet Boys, Limp Bizkit, Spice Girls) were all clearly aimed more at a Gen Y audience.

On top of that, 1997 and 1998 were the years when I really started to get into following pop culture, and it's really hard to think of any year that had late '80s babies getting heavily into pop culture as a "Gen X year".

I agree that 1997 and 1998 were when pop culture started to tilt heavily Millennial. There was certainly a shift in 1997 pop culturally, looking back on it now. You already mentioned the shows that debuted that year (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, King of the Hill, South Park, Sabrina the Teenage Witch) that had a decidedly more Gen Y "vibe" to them. Plus, the musical groups that broke into the mainstream in 1997 (Backstreet Boys, Limp Bizkit, Spice Girls) were all clearly aimed more at a Gen Y audience.

On top of that, 1997 and 1998 were the years when I really started to get into following pop culture, and it's really hard to think of any year that had late '80s babies getting heavily into pop culture as a "Gen X year".
Yeah, I have seen those shows from time to time. Just looking at how the vibe is portrayed, there's no way they could have been geared towards Gen X. I mean just look at these clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOEZAHexacA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hERjPRxt2js

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or_hWzxH9vc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYSJjEAoW4I

Oh, that's also when I got into pop culture considering that I remember the popular songs played around that time.

Oh, and one last thing. Another show that's not frequently mentioned, but I know it's definitely a Millennial show is 7th Heaven especially since it lasted well into the 00s.   

Pretty much this:

Late 1994 - Mid 1997: Late X Culture (Main Late X Youth: b. Late 77'-Mid 80')

Late 1997 - Mid 1998: Ultimate X/Y Culture (Main X/Y Cuspers: b. Late 80'-Mid 81')

Late 1998 - Mid 2001: Early Y Culture (Main Early Y Youth: b. Late 81'-Mid 84')


Late 1996 to mid 1997 was also XY culture. That's when the oldest (supposedly) Millennials entered high school. It's also why 1979ers (them being in their senior year at the time) are true XY cusps as opposed to being just very young X.

Cutoffs for Gen X and why you'd see them

1974 - Last to vote in Bush 41 vs Clinton election, last to be born in the first half of the 70's, last to graduate under Bush 41, last to be at middle school when the Challenger explodes (4 arguments)

1975 - Last to be born before end of Vietnam War (some of them), last to be at elementary school when John Lennon was assassinated, last to be at high school when the Berlin Wall fell, last to spend peak youth before the end of the Cold War, last to graduate HS before the 1994 Gun Free School Zone law got enacted (5 arguments)

1976 - Last to be born in the mid 70's, last to graduate in the first half of the 90's, last to graduate HS before the X/Y transition begins, last to be teenagers in the 80's, last to graduate HS before the Oklahoma City Bombing takes place, last to be able to vote in the 1994 midterms (6 arguments)

1977 - Last to graduate high school before Windows 95 came out, last to graduate college in the 90's, last to enter their thirties before the Recession, last to be at HS by the time Nevermind got released (4 arguments)

1978 - Last to graduate HS in the mid 90's, last to graduate HS in a X-leaning culture, last to be able to vote in the 1996 election, last to me at middle school when the Berlin Wall falls, last to legally consume alcohol in the 90's, last to enter middle school in the 80's, last to spend peak youth before the X/Y transition begins (7 arguments)

1979 - Last to be born in the 70's, last to enter double digit age in the 80's, last to enter high school in the early 90's, last to be at HS by the time Kurt Cobain committed suicide, last to graduate HS before Princess Diana's death, last to graduate college before 9/11 (6 arguments)

1980 - Last to enter peak youth before the culture leans Y instead of X, last to enter high school in the first half of the 90's, last to graduate HS before the X/Y transition ends, last to graduate HS before the Columbine shooting takes place, last to be at elementary school when the Challenger explosion takes place, last to be at middle school prior to the 1991 kid culture shift, last to vote in the 1998 midterm election, last to be teenagers in the early 90's (some will argue 1979), last to enter HS before the Oklahoma City Bombing (8 arguments)

1981 - Last to graduate HS in the 90's, last to become adults in the 90's, last be at high school when Windows 95 got released, last to be at middle school before Clinton becomes president (4 arguments)

1982 - Last to graduate HS during Clinton's peesidency, last to be able to vote in the Bush 43 vs Gore election, last to graduate HS in the 20th century, last to graduate HS in the 2nd millennium, last to enter peak youth during the X/Y transition (5 arguments)

1983 - Last to graduate HS before 9/11 (1 argument)

Most will probably agree that 1984 is undeniably Millennial, so I stopped at 1983.

Cutoffs for Gen X and why you'd see them

1974 - Last to vote in Bush 41 vs Clinton election, last to be born in the first half of the 70's, last to graduate under Bush 41, last to be at middle school when the Challenger explodes (4 arguments)

1975 - Last to be born before end of Vietnam War (some of them), last to be at elementary school when John Lennon was assassinated, last to be at high school when the Berlin Wall fell, last to spend peak youth before the end of the Cold War, last to graduate HS before the 1994 Gun Free School Zone law got enacted (5 arguments)

1976 - Last to be born in the mid 70's, last to graduate in the first half of the 90's, last to graduate HS before the X/Y transition begins, last to be teenagers in the 80's, last to graduate HS before the Oklahoma City Bombing takes place, last to be able to vote in the 1994 midterms (6 arguments)

1977 - Last to graduate high school before Windows 95 came out, last to graduate college in the 90's, last to enter their thirties before the Recession, last to be at HS by the time Nevermind got released (4 arguments)

1978 - Last to graduate HS in the mid 90's, last to graduate HS in a X-leaning culture, last to be able to vote in the 1996 election, last to me at middle school when the Berlin Wall falls, last to legally consume alcohol in the 90's, last to enter middle school in the 80's, last to spend peak youth before the X/Y transition begins (7 arguments)

1979 - Last to be born in the 70's, last to enter double digit age in the 80's, last to enter high school in the early 90's, last to be at HS by the time Kurt Cobain committed suicide, last to graduate HS before Princess Diana's death, last to graduate college before 9/11 (6 arguments)

1980 - Last to enter peak youth before the culture leans Y instead of X, last to enter high school in the first half of the 90's, last to graduate HS before the X/Y transition ends, last to graduate HS before the Columbine shooting takes place, last to be at elementary school when the Challenger explosion takes place, last to be at middle school prior to the 1991 kid culture shift, last to vote in the 1998 midterm election, last to be teenagers in the early 90's (some will argue 1979), last to enter HS before the Oklahoma City Bombing (8 arguments)

1981 - Last to graduate HS in the 90's, last to become adults in the 90's, last be at high school when Windows 95 got released, last to be at middle school before Clinton becomes president (4 arguments)

1982 - Last to graduate HS during Clinton's peesidency, last to be able to vote in the Bush 43 vs Gore election, last to graduate HS in the 20th century, last to graduate HS in the 2nd millennium, last to enter peak youth during the X/Y transition (5 arguments)

1983 - Last to graduate HS before 9/11 (1 argument)

Most will probably agree that 1984 is undeniably Millennial, so I stopped at 1983.

This is a great analysis. Although, I don't see 1974 or '75 being the cutoffs for Gen X. 1976, 1978 and 1980 are good contenders though. Post-1980 are pretty much Millennials despite the denials.

Just going back to the school years, the 1996-97 seems to be the very first one where the culture is somewhat millennial influenced. This is because the older Millennials were already adolescents by that time.

This is a great analysis. Although, I don't see 1974 or '75 being the cutoffs for Gen X. 1976, 1978 and 1980 are good contenders though. Post-1980 are pretty much Millennials despite the denials.

Just going back to the school years, the 1996-97 seems to be the very first one where the culture is somewhat millennial influenced. This is because the older Millennials were already adolescents by that time.


I'd say looking at the chart, 1980 seems to be the most reasonable and balanced cutoff. Here's a few more things I'd like to add:

-Those born in 80' were the last to have had their childhoods peaked (ages 7-8) during Ronald Reagan's Presidency (1987-88' school year)

-They were the last to have been in their youthful stage (ages 9-24) during the fall of the Berlin Wall

-They were the last to have entered their 20's during the 20th century/the Clinton Era of Politics (in 2000)

Cutoffs for Gen X and why you'd see them

1974 - Last to vote in Bush 41 vs Clinton election, last to be born in the first half of the 70's, last to graduate under Bush 41, last to be at middle school when the Challenger explodes (4 arguments)

1975 - Last to be born before end of Vietnam War (some of them), last to be at elementary school when John Lennon was assassinated, last to be at high school when the Berlin Wall fell, last to spend peak youth before the end of the Cold War, last to graduate HS before the 1994 Gun Free School Zone law got enacted (5 arguments)

1976 - Last to be born in the mid 70's, last to graduate in the first half of the 90's, last to graduate HS before the X/Y transition begins, last to be teenagers in the 80's, last to graduate HS before the Oklahoma City Bombing takes place, last to be able to vote in the 1994 midterms (6 arguments)

1977 - Last to graduate high school before Windows 95 came out, last to graduate college in the 90's, last to enter their thirties before the Recession, last to be at HS by the time Nevermind got released (4 arguments)

1978 - Last to graduate HS in the mid 90's, last to graduate HS in a X-leaning culture, last to be able to vote in the 1996 election, last to me at middle school when the Berlin Wall falls, last to legally consume alcohol in the 90's, last to enter middle school in the 80's, last to spend peak youth before the X/Y transition begins (7 arguments)

1979 - Last to be born in the 70's, last to enter double digit age in the 80's, last to enter high school in the early 90's, last to be at HS by the time Kurt Cobain committed suicide, last to graduate HS before Princess Diana's death, last to graduate college before 9/11 (6 arguments)

1980 - Last to enter peak youth before the culture leans Y instead of X, last to enter high school in the first half of the 90's, last to graduate HS before the X/Y transition ends, last to graduate HS before the Columbine shooting takes place, last to be at elementary school when the Challenger explosion takes place, last to be at middle school prior to the 1991 kid culture shift, last to vote in the 1998 midterm election, last to be teenagers in the early 90's (some will argue 1979), last to enter HS before the Oklahoma City Bombing (8 arguments)

1981 - Last to graduate HS in the 90's, last to become adults in the 90's, last be at high school when Windows 95 got released, last to be at middle school before Clinton becomes president (4 arguments)

1982 - Last to graduate HS during Clinton's peesidency, last to be able to vote in the Bush 43 vs Gore election, last to graduate HS in the 20th century, last to graduate HS in the 2nd millennium, last to enter peak youth during the X/Y transition (5 arguments)

1983 - Last to graduate HS before 9/11 (1 argument)

Most will probably agree that 1984 is undeniably Millennial, so I stopped at 1983.

1974-1978 borns to me aren't even close to being Millennials. 1979 borns....eh. 1980 and 1981 borns is were you can end Gen X in my opinion.

However, still a solid post bro. Veey detailed and I know it took a long time to type out.

I'd say looking at the chart, 1980 seems to be the most reasonable and balanced cutoff. Here's a few more things I'd like to add:

-Those born in 80' were the last to have had their childhoods peaked (ages 7-8) during Ronald Reagan's Presidency (1987-88' school year)

-They were the last to have been in their youthful stage (ages 9-24) during the fall of the Berlin Wall

-They were the last to have entered their 20's during the 20th century/the Clinton Era of Politics (in 2000)
I agree that it's the most balanced, and I can see that year being the end for Gen X; however, let's not forget the others with 1978 being #2 and 1976 being #3. They could be the cutoffs, and we wouldn't even know it. In fact, there are two folks so far who see themselves as Millennials. They are Kanye and Jason Dorsey.

I agree that it's the most balanced, and I can see that year being the end for Gen X; however, let's not forget the others with 1978 being #2 and 1976 being #3. They could be the cutoffs, and we wouldn't even know it. In fact, there are two folks so far who see themselves as Millennials. They are Kanye and Jason Dorsey.

To me, neither Kanye West or Jason Dorsey are Millennials. I can only slightly relate to my sister who was born in 1983...much less someone born 5 years BEFORE her.....no way (IMO).

Also, if Gen X ends at 1977....then that means that Gen Y would be 1978-1995/1996/1997/1998....that's just too funky for me.

To me, neither Kanye West or Jason Dorsey are Millennials. I can only slightly relate to my sister who was born in 1983...much less someone born 5 years BEFORE her.....no way (IMO).

Also, if Gen X ends at 1977....then that means that Gen Y would be 1978-1995/1996/1997/1998....that's just too funky for me.


To them, they see themselves too young for Gen X. OTT, I agree that the length is somewhat funky; however, if 1978 was the start, then 1996/97+ would most likely be considered the Zeds.

As for generations, the spans circle around events, demographics and other misc that impacted Millennials as a whole. They include: Y2K, 9/11, rise of the internet/Web 1.0, the recession, 2008 election, Iraq, Columbine, and so on.

To me, neither Kanye West or Jason Dorsey are Millennials. I can only slightly relate to my sister who was born in 1983...much less someone born 5 years BEFORE her.....no way (IMO).

Also, if Gen X ends at 1977....then that means that Gen Y would be 1978-1995/1996/1997/1998....that's just too funky for me.


Well you were born in 1999 though, that is very close to being generation Z. But yeah I don't think 1977 is Gen Y, if you could graduate college in the '90s you're not millennial. Once you get to people who graduated high school in the 21st century (i.e. born around '82/'83) then you're into Gen Y. 1980 is borderline.

To them, they see themselves too young for Gen X. OTT, I agree that the length is somewhat funky; however, if 1978 was the start, then 1996/97+ would most likely be considered the Zeds.

As for generations, the spans circle around events, demographics and other misc that impacted Millennials as a whole. They include: Y2K, 9/11, rise of the internet/Web 1.0, the recession, 2008 election, Iraq, Columbine, and so on.

BTW, I just had to search who is Jason Dorsey (don't know who he is).

So that definition of Gen X is 1965-1977 and Gen Y is 1978-1995...yeah that's too weird for me (but what do I know :P). I know that the 1977-1994 Gen Y definition (which is similar to the 1978-1995 Gen Y definition) exists but that's also weird to me.


Well you were born in 1999 though, that is very close to being generation Z. But yeah I don't think 1977 is Gen Y, if you could graduate college in the '90s you're not millennial. Once you get to people who graduated high school in the 21st century (i.e. born around '82/'83) then you're into Gen Y. 1980 is borderline.

Well you were born in 1999 though, that is very close to being generation Z. But yeah I don't think 1977 is Gen Y, if you could graduate college in the '90s you're not millennial. Once you get to people who graduated high school in the 21st century (i.e. born around '82/'83) then you're into Gen Y. 1980 is borderline.

Personally, in my opinion:

Gen X is 1965-1980/1981.
Gen Y is 1981/1982-2000.

But yeah I don't think 1977 is Gen Y, if you could graduate college in the '90s you're not millennial. Once you get to people who graduated high school in the 21st century (i.e. born around '82/'83) then you're into Gen Y. 1980 is borderline.
Well the late 70s folks' college years were around the millennium, thus making them somewhat part of the generation. Plus by the late 90s, the pop culture was pretty much geared towards Gen Y anyway.


BTW, I just had to search who is Jason Dorsey (don't know who he is).

So that definition of Gen X is 1965-1977 and Gen Y is 1978-1995...yeah that's too weird for me (but what do I know :P). I know that the 1977-1994 Gen Y definition (which is similar to the 1978-1995 Gen Y definition) exists but that's also weird to me.
Well if 1977 was the cutoff of Gen X, then the cohort would begin much earlier. A fact about them is that they are one of the shortest current generations so far.

BTW, I just had to search who is Jason Dorsey (don't know who he is).

So that definition of Gen X is 1965-1977 and Gen Y is 1978-1995...yeah that's too weird for me (but what do I know :P). I know that the 1977-1994 Gen Y definition (which is similar to the 1978-1995 Gen Y definition) exists but that's also weird to me.

Personally, in my opinion:

Gen X is 1965-1980/1981.
Gen Y is 1981/1982-2000.


Yeah I basically agree actually.

Well the late 70s folks' college years were around the millennium, thus making them somewhat part of the generation. Plus by the late 90s, the pop culture was pretty much geared towards Gen Y anyway.
Well if 1977 was the cutoff of Gen X, then the cohort would begin much earlier. A fact about them is that they are one of the shortest current generations so far.


Yeah I agree moreso for 1979 than 1977. 1977 to me (born in 1987) has always been pretty much late Generation X, while 1979 I see as more cuspy.

Yeah I agree moreso for 1979 than 1977. 1977 to me (born in 1987) has always been pretty much late Generation X, while 1979 I see as more cuspy.
Well they all could be both. I mean, they were jamming to late 90s pop culture (excluding teen pop) during their college years.

I see 1981 as the first birth year with major Millennial influence. They are 50/50 not pure Gen X by any means. 1983 as the first firmly Millennial birth year.

This is a great analysis. Although, I don't see 1974 or '75 being the cutoffs for Gen X. 1976, 1978 and 1980 are good contenders though. Post-1980 are pretty much Millennials despite the denials.

Just going back to the school years, the 1996-97 seems to be the very first one where the culture is somewhat millennial influenced. This is because the older Millennials were already adolescents by that time.


IMO, 1974 is a cutoff point only in the sense that it's the last of core X. Beyond 1974ers being the last ones old enough to have voted for Clinton in the 1992 election, they're also the last ones who can claim themselves to be true teenagers of the 80s and 80s-influenced early 90s (1990-1991).

I see 1981 as the first birth year with major Millennial influence. They are 50/50 not pure Gen X by any means. 1983 as the first firmly Millennial birth year.


Personally, I'd peg 1982 as the 50/50 year. I totally agree about 1983, though. That's the last year with any traces of XY influence, but they're so slight that it doesn't even really matter.