What years would you say the Grunge and Alt. Rock movement(s) began, both as a mainstream forum of music and as a fashion/cultural trend, and what around what year would you say it fully faded away as a mainstream fad?

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When did the grunge era end?

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Underground, grunge began around 1987 with Malfunkshun and The Melvins, with 1991 the year it transitioned into the mainstream (i.e. MTV airplay and modern rock radio outside of college stations). But like many genres, there is usually a proto-influence that gives rise to it, and in grunge's case, Black Flag's slower songs on its 1984 album is an important influence. However, if you lived in a market that didn't have much coverage such as Flyover Country and Opp North, pretty much confined to 1993 and 1994 as just a "Brief fad", which also coincided with the peak of its popularity in the mainstream. Despite the "Kurt Cobain" theory as when grunge died (though it was the start of its terminal decline), it gradually faded out over the course of the mid-90s and increasingly became more "post-grunge" until 1997. However, 1995 was the first year that Post-Grunge was more prevalent than Grunge.

The first grunge song to garner mainstream attention was actually Alice in Chains' Man in the Box, which was a mild radio hit in the summer of 1991 and helped its original album, Facelift, to earn a gold certification by the end of the year.  Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit, of course, popularized the Seattle sound to the same level as the hair metal and radio rock bands of the time.  The genre did not truly peak, however, until late 1992, when other grunge bands like Pearl Jam began to achieve the same level of international superstardom as Nirvana.

Kurt Cobain's death in April 1994 put a serious damper on the grunge movement, not to mention Collective Soul's Shine, the first gigantic post-grunge hit, spiked up the charts immediately afterwards.  Despite this, grunge still remained quite popular, even without Nirvana, thanks to strong releases that year like Alice in Chain's Jar of Flies and Soundgarden's Superunknown.  While the genre was more experimental in the mid-90s than it had been during its initial breakthrough, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden were generally still just as respected as their post-grunge contemporaries like Bush and Silverchair.  Apparently, Everclear and The Presidents of the United States, both from the Pacific Northwest, were also classified as grunge, even though their music was much less dark and more melodic.

The real death of grunge was in early 1997, when Soungarden disbanded and by which point Layne Staley's heroin addiction forced Alice in Chains to stop touring.  The only surviving representatives of the original movement by that point were Stone Temple Pilots and Pearl Jam, both of which had become so experimental by then that they were no longer really classified as grunge, anyway.  The final grunge song to achieve widespread commercial success was Soundgarden's Blow Up the Outside World, which topped the Mainstream Rock Tracks chart in January 1997.

Around 1991 to 1998. When the millennium era took off, that was when grunge music started to die from the mainstream audience.

Around 1991 to 1998. When the millennium era took off, that was when grunge music started to die from the mainstream audience.


What grunge acts were still popular in 1997 and 1998?  Pearl Jam wasn't classified as grunge by that point.

What grunge acts were still popular in 1997 and 1998?  Pearl Jam wasn't classified as grunge by that point.


Well, the grunge era was associated with dirty looks and 90s rock music. The millennium era was the transistion from the 90s to the 2000s.

Well, the grunge era was associated with dirty looks and 90s rock music. The millennium era was the transistion from the 90s to the 2000s.


Even if you don't consider 1997 a millennial year like I do, there was no grunge on the charts after Blow Up the Outside World, popular in January of that year.  What you had instead was post-grunge, which had been around since 1994 and emulated regular grunge, but with a lighter, more radio-friendly sound.  Post-grunge remained popular until 2010, so there wasn't really any significant shift once 1999 arrived, though that was around the time nu-metal also became popular.

Even if you don't consider 1997 a millennial year like I do, there was no grunge on the charts after Blow Up the Outside World, popular in January of that year.  What you had instead was post-grunge, which had been around since 1994 and emulated regular grunge, but with a lighter, more radio-friendly sound.  Post-grunge remained popular until 2010, so there wasn't really any significant shift once 1999 arrived, though that was around the time nu-metal also became popular.


Okay, maybe grunge music was just significant in the mid 90s, I think.

Even if you don't consider 1997 a millennial year like I do, there was no grunge on the charts after Blow Up the Outside World, popular in January of that year.  What you had instead was post-grunge, which had been around since 1994 and emulated regular grunge, but with a lighter, more radio-friendly sound.  Post-grunge remained popular until 2010, so there wasn't really any significant shift once 1999 arrived, though that was around the time nu-metal also became popular.


I know we've gone over this many times before, but I honestly think that 1997 as a full year was the transition from core 90's to the millennial late 90's/early 2000's era. If you go by school year, then I'd say that the transition was 1996-1997.

I know we've gone over this many times before, but I honestly think that 1997 as a full year was the transition from core 90's to the millennial late 90's/early 2000's era. If you go by school year, then I'd say that the transition was 1996-1997.


I agree. 1997 was kinda like the last year in the 90s before the millennium era happened. Even though shows like Oz (from HBO) premiered at the time, and later became more popular in the millennium era.

Haven't you already started another thread similar to this? You did the same thing with the '90s nostalgia one!

Anyways, I'm with #Infinity on this one. Real grunge died in early 1997. However, post-grunge's history is kind of complex. It started in 1994, but it seemed to take a break in the late '90s. The post grunge of the mid '90s was closer in style to Nirvana and Stone Temple Pilots than it is to Nickelback and Lifehouse. For instance "Cumbersome" by Seven Mary Three is more like "Smells Like Teen Spirit" than it is like Nickelback's "How You Remind Me". Other songs such as "Possum Kingdom", "Interstate Love Song", "Bitch", "I Alone", "You Oughta Know", "Everything Zen", and "Swallowed" sound more like real grunge than aughts post grunge.

From 1997-1999, radio rock consisted of pop rock, lilith fair rock, rap rock, punk rock, acoustic rock, dance rock, and orchestra rock (Goo Goo Dolls's second album). No post grunge was around in the late 1990's, but there were a lot of other subgenres that took it's place and made the rock scene very diverse IMO.

I don't think aughts style post-grunge really kicked off u til 2001. Songs from 2000 such as "Everything You Want" and "Never Let You Go" still have a '90s vibe.

I know we've gone over this many times before, but I honestly think that 1997 as a full year was the transition from core 90's to the millennial late 90's/early 2000's era. If you go by school year, then I'd say that the transition was 1996-1997.


I can agree with that.  I actually don't think millennial culture was fully established until 1999, but I think most of the significant mid-90s culture died out during the period from September 1996 to January 1997, hence why I consider 1997 as a whole the early stage of the late 90s/millennial era.

From 1997-1999, radio rock consisted of pop rock, lilith fair rock, rap rock, punk rock, acoustic rock, dance rock, and orchestra rock (Goo Goo Dolls's second album). No post grunge was around in the late 1990's, but there were a lot of other subgenres that took it's place and made the rock scene very diverse IMO.

Actually, there were a few post-grunge hits in the late 90s, prior to Creed's Higher and 3 Doors Down's Kryptonite (which really started the "2000s"-style post-grunge that you speak of), among them:

+ Everlong / Foo Fighters
+ My Hero / Foo Fighters
+ Superman's Dead / Our Lady Peace
+ Clumsy / Our Lady Peace
+ What's This Life For / Creed
+ One / Creed
+ Shimmer / Fuel

As a whole, 1997-1999 was definitely a recessionary period for post-grunge's popularity, but the genre never completely faded away until 2010.  The songs above bridged the harder, grungier wave of post-grunge of the mid-90s with the poppy, backlash-attracting style of the 2000s.

+ Everlong / Foo Fighters
+ My Hero / Foo Fighters
+ Superman's Dead / Our Lady Peace
+ Clumsy / Our Lady Peace
+ What's This Life For / Creed
+ One / Creed
+ Shimmer / Fuel


Well, I was talking strictly within the realm of Top 40 hits of the Billboard Hot 100, but I see where you're coming from.

Well, I was talking strictly within the realm of Top 40 hits of the Billboard Hot 100, but I see where you're coming from.


They did excellently on the rock charts, even if their performance on the Billboard Hot 100 was less than stellar or nonexistent.  It's a common trend for rock songs to excel strictly by airplay rather than single sales.  I'm pretty sure most people have at least heard of Everlong and My Hero, even though neither of those songs charted on the Hot 100 at all.  The former even received a gold certification from the RIAA.

The first grunge song to garner mainstream attention was actually Alice in Chains' Man in the Box, which was a mild radio hit in the summer of 1991 and helped its original album, Facelift, to earn a gold certification by the end of the year.  Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit, of course, popularized the Seattle sound to the same level as the hair metal and radio rock bands of the time.  The genre did not truly peak, however, until late 1992, when other grunge bands like Pearl Jam began to achieve the same level of international superstardom as Nirvana.

Kurt Cobain's death in April 1994 put a serious damper on the grunge movement, not to mention Collective Soul's Shine, the first gigantic post-grunge hit, spiked up the charts immediately afterwards.  Despite this, grunge still remained quite popular, even without Nirvana, thanks to strong releases that year like Alice in Chain's Jar of Flies and Soundgarden's Superunknown.  While the genre was more experimental in the mid-90s than it had been during its initial breakthrough, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden were generally still just as respected as their post-grunge contemporaries like Bush and Silverchair.  Apparently, Everclear and The Presidents of the United States, both from the Pacific Northwest, were also classified as grunge, even though their music was much less dark and more melodic.

The real death of grunge was in early 1997, when Soungarden disbanded and by which point Layne Staley's heroin addiction forced Alice in Chains to stop touring.  The only surviving representatives of the original movement by that point were Stone Temple Pilots and Pearl Jam, both of which had become so experimental by then that they were no longer really classified as grunge, anyway.  The final grunge song to achieve widespread commercial success was Soundgarden's Blow Up the Outside World, which topped the Mainstream Rock Tracks chart in January 1997.
Yeah Stone Temple Pilots 1996 album "Tiny Music from the Vatican Gift Shop" sounded more like Led Zepplin than it did any 90's Grunge Music Act. The radio songs off that album were "Lady Picture Show", "Big Bang Baby" and "Tumble In the Rough". I think STP's 1999 album "No. 4" was sort of Hard Rock with a little Grunge Tinge Sound to it except for the ballad "Sour Girl" which is one of their biggest known hits. Pearl Jam on the other hand left the "Grunge era" with their 1998 album "Yield" I think.

Yeah Stone Temple Pilots 1996 album "Tiny Music from the Vatican Gift Shop" sounded more like Led Zepplin than it did any 90's Grunge Music Act. The radio songs off that album were "Lady Picture Show", "Big Bang Baby" and "Tumble In the Rough". I think STP's 1999 album "No. 4" was sort of Hard Rock with a little Grunge Tinge Sound to it except for the ballad "Sour Girl" which is one of their biggest known hits.

Yeah, it's amazing the difference in sound between the Tiny Music singles and those from Core.  I feel like I'm listening to two different bands entirely.

Pearl Jam on the other hand left the "Grunge era" with their 1998 album "Yield" I think.

They were evolving into an art rock band as far back as 1994's Vitalogy, although No Code was their first album not to be classified as grunge whatsoever.

I would say the impact of grunge started around 25 years in 1991, for it was on September 24th in 1991 that Nirvana's album Nevermind was released in America, entering the chart at No. 144 on its first week. The album which peaked at No. 1 in January 1992 has now sold over 30m copies world wide. The idea for the now iconic front cover shot of the baby swimming came after Kurt Cobain and drummer Dave Grohl saw a TV documentary on water babies.

Starting Point: Mid '80s
The Year Grunge Started Gaining Ground: 1992
Peak Point: 1993-1994
The Year Grunge Died Out: 1997

Starting Point: Mid '80s
The Year Grunge Started Gaining Ground: 1992
Peak Point: 1993-1994
The Year Grunge Died Out: 1997


The Year Grunge Started Gaining Ground: 1991
Peak Point: 1992-1994

imo

The Year Grunge Started Gaining Ground: 1991
Peak Point: 1992-1994

imo


Grunge broke out in '91, exploded in 1992 and defined the mid '90s (1993-1995) in more ways than one.

Late 80s, mid to late 90s I think...If I remember correctly.

Late 80s, mid to late 90s I think...If I remember correctly.


I never knew somebody else actually thought that grunge was still around during the late 90s. heh

Grunge started in 1984 with Green River. Come on Down is the very first grunge record ever.

I never knew somebody else actually thought that grunge was still around during the late 90s. heh


It wasn't lol. I just felt it sounded more accurate.

I wore those 'cool' acid-washed jeans in 1994. Never again!  8-P

It wasn't lol. I just felt it sounded more accurate.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f4/16/0c/f4160ccb2b1c5f7b54258ff0235ad7d4.gif

I wore those 'cool' acid-washed jeans in 1994. Never again!  8-P


Acid wash wasn't very cool in 1994. :P ;D

Acid wash wasn't very cool in 1994. :P ;D


Even though nobody wore in the 90s.

Acid wash wasn't very cool in 1994. :P ;D


I remember it wasn't like the tight 80s acid wash, and not many people wore it.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f4/16/0c/f4160ccb2b1c5f7b54258ff0235ad7d4.gif


Oh dear, now I've done it! Haha

Oh dear, now I've done it! Haha


Well, I just guessed that grunge was probably around during the late 90s. Since I never truly experienced 90s culture.

Even though nobody wore them in the 90s.



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hVU280QLEds/VOF_CbLg6fI/AAAAAAAAEWQ/9PEGpwCwFzg/s1600/slater.jpg

http://ak0.pinimg.com/236x/42/a2/f0/42a2f04b2b9d2d968966581f6af4d829.jpg


I don't think a lot of people even knew they existed though. Even when they came out.

I don't think a lot of people even knew they existed though. Even when they came out.


Acid wash jeans were everywhere in the very late 80s and early 90s.

Acid wash jeans were everywhere in the very late 80s and early 90s.


I could get the early 90s, but not the entire 90s.

Acid wash wasn't very cool in 1994. :P ;D


When did the coolness of acid washed jeans go out?

I remember it wasn't like the tight 80s acid wash, and not many people wore it.


Aside from the hair metal bands, I think most regular people in the 80's wore them fitted rather than super tight.


Acid wash jeans were everywhere in the very late 80s and early 90s.


Acid Wash jeans took off pretty quickly when they were introduced in 1986. Stone wash (which is basically a less crazy acid-wash) had already caught on when Guess introduced them in 1982 so acid wash's success wasn't all that hard to achieve.


When did the coolness of acid washed jeans go out?


Somewhere around 1991-1992.

When did the coolness of acid washed jeans go out?


1994. lol

When did the coolness of acid washed jeans go out?


In the spring of '93.

1994. lol


I'm taking Jordan's words over yours.  ;D

I'm taking Jordan's words over yours.  ;D


Wise choice. ;)

Kurt Cobain's death in April 1994 put a serious damper on the grunge movement, not to mention Collective Soul's Shine, the first gigantic post-grunge hit, spiked up the charts immediately afterwards.  Despite this, grunge still remained quite popular, even without Nirvana, thanks to strong releases that year like Alice in Chain's Jar of Flies and Soundgarden's Superunknown.  While the genre was more experimental in the mid-90s than it had been during its initial breakthrough, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, and Soundgarden were generally still just as respected as their post-grunge contemporaries like Bush and Silverchair.  Apparently, Everclear and The Presidents of the United States, both from the Pacific Northwest, were also classified as grunge, even though their music was much less dark and more melodic.


To be fair, a lot of the Mid-Late 90s post-grunge bands stayed quite true to the original Grunge sound, which may explain why Grunge bands such as Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains were still viewed in a very high regard until the final few years of the decade. Mid 90s post-grunge bands, such as Bush and Collective Soul, shouldn't be categorized with their 2000s post-grunge counterparts, such as Nickelback, Creed and 3 Doors Down. There is a noticeable difference in terms of their commercial appeal and overall sound, in my opinion. In regards to Bush, whilst there's no disputing that they were a post-grunge band, I personally think that "Comedown", a lead single off their Sixteen Stone album, is a Grunge song rather than a post-grunge song. It sounds less commercial friendly than "Glycerine", "The World I Know" and "Lighting Crashes", in my opinion. Not only that, but it definitely has more of a "raw" and "authentic" sound to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kewuzKHZGKo

...just as respected as their post-grunge contemporaries like Bush and Silverchair. 


Depending on the context you use, I think you could make a case for Silverchair being a grunge or a post-grunge band. If you were to compare them with other acts at the time, they are indisputably post-grunge. Their first single, "Tomorrow", was released in September 1994, about five months after Kurt Cobain's death. Not only was "Tomorrow" and their debut album released at a time when acts such as Bush, Collective Soul and Candlebox were finding success in the mainstream, the band was signed by the record company purely due to their commercial appeal. The sound and lyrical content of bothFrogstomp and Freak Show were also heavily influenced by Nirvana and Pearl Jam, which suggests that they can't possibly be considered "grunge".

However, with all that said, they could very well be considered a "grunge" band, when you take into account the history of the genre in their native Australia. Silverchair really were the first Australian band of their kind to achieve mainstream success. Grunge acts, such as Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains, had all found mainstream success on the Top-40 charts, but there were no Australian "grunge" acts in the mainstream prior to the release of "Tomorrow". In many ways, Silverchair created and spurred a movement within the Australian music scene, which resulted in other Australian grunge influenced bands achieving success in the Top-40, such as Spiderbait, Ammonia and The Superjesus. Personally I think Silverchair are a "grunge" band, however in the greater context, they are a post-grunge band.

I always saw Grunge's hey day as 1991 to 1995!

Beginnings: 1985-1991, with Green River's Come on Down usually being considered the first grunge record.
Popularity Plateau: 1991-1994, with Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit", marking the breakthrough.
Decline: 1994-1997, after Kurt Cobain died.
Death: 1997, when Soundgarden broke up and "Blow Up the Outside World" fell off the charts.

Beginnings: 1985-1991, with Green River's Come on Down usually being considered the first grunge record.
Popularity Plateau: 1991-1994, with Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit", marking the breakthrough.
Decline: 1994-1997, after Kurt Cobain died.
Death: 1997, when Soundgarden broke up and "Blow Up the Outside World" fell off the charts.


100% right, Zelek! You could say 80's grunge started with Come on Down and ended around the time either Facelift or Ten came out. 

100% right, Zelek! You could say 80's grunge started with Come on Down and ended around the time either Facelift or Ten came out.


Was Grunge's peak, in the mainstream, 1991 to 1995?

Was Grunge's peak, in the mainstream, 1991 to 1995?


1991 to 1993 was the absolute peak of grunge. 1994 and 1995 had lots to offer but it was also after pop punk like Dookie and Smash hit the scene and sent grunge to the sidelines as the "new edgy" thing. Once Kurt died, the movement was steadily waning.

Was Grunge's peak, in the mainstream, 1991 to 1995?


Its mainstream span was the second half of 1991 ("Man in the Box" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit") to very early 1997 ("Blow Up the Outside World"). Its popularity was more grassroots during Cobain's lifetime, with hair metal still appearing on mainstream radio instead; even Poison's "Stand" charted on the then-new Mainstream Top 40 in early 1993, while nothing from Ten, Dirt, or Nevermind did. Eventually, grunge became less of a symbolic rebellion against the 80s and more the status quo; excluding "Smells Like Teen Spirit," which came out before the Mainstream Top 40, Stone Temple Pilot's "Plush" was the first grunge song to be popular not just with the angsty counterculture but also the mainstream crowd, as it peaked at #18 on the Mainstream Top 40 in mid-late 1993. After Cobain's death, the Seattle bands and Stone Temple Pilots were still at the forefront of the alternative scene, frequently topping the Alternative charts while occasionally scoring mainstream success as well, but they were now in the company of several other sub genres of alternative, including post-grunge bands like Bush and Silverchair.

The lifespan of grunge using the Plot Diagram

Exposition: 1984-1987
"Rising" moment: 1988-1991
Peak/Climax: 1992-1993 and very early 1994
"Falling" moment: Most of 1994-1997
Death/Resolution: The 1997-1998 school year

Its mainstream span was the second half of 1991 ("Man in the Box" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit") to very early 1997 ("Blow Up the Outside World"). Its popularity was more grassroots during Cobain's lifetime, with hair metal still appearing on mainstream radio instead; even Poison's "Stand" charted on the then-new Mainstream Top 40 in early 1993, while nothing from Ten, Dirt, or Nevermind did. Eventually, grunge became less of a symbolic rebellion against the 80s and more the status quo; excluding "Smells Like Teen Spirit," which came out before the Mainstream Top 40, Stone Temple Pilot's "Plush" was the first grunge song to be popular not just with the angsty counterculture but also the mainstream crowd, as it peaked at #18 on the Mainstream Top 40 in mid-late 1993. After Cobain's death, the Seattle bands and Stone Temple Pilots were still at the forefront of the alternative scene, frequently topping the Alternative charts while occasionally scoring mainstream success as well, but they were now in the company of several other sub genres of alternative, including post-grunge bands like Bush and Silverchair.


Late reply, but very interesting comment you have there.

Its mainstream span was the second half of 1991 ("Man in the Box" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit") to very early 1997 ("Blow Up the Outside World"). Its popularity was more grassroots during Cobain's lifetime, with hair metal still appearing on mainstream radio instead; even Poison's "Stand" charted on the then-new Mainstream Top 40 in early 1993, while nothing from Ten, Dirt, or Nevermind did. Eventually, grunge became less of a symbolic rebellion against the 80s and more the status quo; excluding "Smells Like Teen Spirit," which came out before the Mainstream Top 40, Stone Temple Pilot's "Plush" was the first grunge song to be popular not just with the angsty counterculture but also the mainstream crowd, as it peaked at #18 on the Mainstream Top 40 in mid-late 1993. After Cobain's death, the Seattle bands and Stone Temple Pilots were still at the forefront of the alternative scene, frequently topping the Alternative charts while occasionally scoring mainstream success as well, but they were now in the company of several other sub genres of alternative, including post-grunge bands like Bush and Silverchair.
"Smells Like Teen Spirit" hit #6 on the Billboard Hot 100. The last Hair Metal Song that I remember being popular was "To Be With You" By "Mr. Big" in 1992 and that song hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for 3 weeks from February 29, 1992-March 14th, 1992 according to Wikipedia.

Even if you don't consider 1997 a millennial year like I do, there was no grunge on the charts after Blow Up the Outside World, popular in January of that year.


I know that this an old post now, but you could actually make a case for Marcy Playground's "Sex and Candy" as being the final grunge song to appear on the charts. It was released as a single in November 1997 and peaked at #8 on the Billboard Hot 100 in Early 1998.

I know that this an old post now, but you could actually make a case for Marcy Playground's "Sex and Candy" as being the final grunge song to appear on the charts. It was released as a single in November 1997 and peaked at #8 on the Billboard Hot 100 in Early 1998.


No, "Sex and Candy" is post-grunge. Even compared to a lot of mid-90s post-grunge, it's super radio-friendly.

If you want to focus specifically on, well, 90s-style post-grunge, then Oleander's "Why I'm Here" was probably the last song of that style to become a hit. After that, you had Creed's "Higher," which inaugurated the infamous 2000s era of post-grunge.

No, "Sex and Candy" is post-grunge. Even compared to a lot of mid-90s post-grunge, it's super radio-friendly.


It may be radio-friendly, but it's meaningless lyrics (e.g "disco lemonade"), drawn out vocals and overall sound makes it an ideal candidate for it to be a Grunge song. To be fair, Grunge is such a loose label as it is. I think you could make a case for several Mid-90s post-grunge songs (e.g "Comedown", "Tomorrow") as being Grunge.

I consider all those mid 90s bands like Bush, Collective Soul, Live, The Verve Pipe, and Silverchair to be grunge bands. The "post-grunge" label is more of a subjectively and elitist one aimed at reducing their contributions to the genre as "too mainstream" or "radio friendly", but it's clearly the same style of music. In other words, grunge was alive and well from 1994-2002 even if the big Seattle bands were going in different directions by that time.

"Smells Like Teen Spirit" hit #6 on the Billboard Hot 100. The last Hair Metal Song that I remember being popular was "To Be With You" By "Mr. Big" in 1992 and that song hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for 3 weeks from February 29, 1992-March 14th, 1992 according to Wikipedia.


The last hair metal hit in the 1990s was probably Firehouse's "I Live My Life For You" which hit the Billboard top 20 in early 1995. 1992 actually had a number of hair metal acts that were still charting well (Mr. Big, Firehouse, Def Leppard, Damn Yankees, Saigon Kick, Guns N'Roses).

It may be radio-friendly, but it's meaningless lyrics (e.g "disco lemonade"), drawn out vocals and overall sound makes it an ideal candidate for it to be a Grunge song. To be fair, Grunge is such a loose label as it is. I think you could make a case for several Mid-90s post-grunge songs (e.g "Comedown", "Tomorrow") as being Grunge.


"Disco lemonade?" "Why I'm Here" easily out-cheeses that line with "everyone I know considers me a clown." :P

But the technical definition of post-grunge is basically rock music that mimics the Seattle bands, usually with a radio-friendly bent. I agree that not much distinguishes "Comedown" and "Tomorrow" from genuine grunge songs, but on the other hand, stuff like "Shine," "Plowed," "Good," "Far Behind," and "I Alone" fits pretty snugly into the post-grunge category. It's just that all of these tracks sound like they came directly out of Seattle when compared to 2000s post-grunge hits like "Lips of an Angel," "How You Remind Me," and "My Sacrifice."


The last hair metal hit in the 1990s was probably Firehouse's "I Live My Life For You" which hit the Billboard top 20 in early 1995. 1992 actually had a number of hair metal acts that were still charting well (Mr. Big, Firehouse, Def Leppard, Damn Yankees, Saigon Kick, Guns N'Roses).


If you want to stretch it even further, Def Leppard's "When Love & Hate Collide" did decently on the Mainstream Top 40 in the US and actually hit #2 in the UK in late 1995.

"Disco lemonade?" "Why I'm Here" easily out-cheeses that line with "everyone I know considers me a clown." :P

But the technical definition of post-grunge is basically rock music that mimics the Seattle bands, usually with a radio-friendly bent. I agree that not much distinguishes "Comedown" and "Tomorrow" from genuine grunge songs, but on the other hand, stuff like "Shine," "Plowed," "Good," "Far Behind," and "I Alone" fits pretty snugly into the post-grunge category. It's just that all of these tracks sound like they came directly out of Seattle when compared to 2000s post-grunge hits like "Lips of an Angel," "How You Remind Me," and "My Sacrifice."



That's my main strife with the definition of post-grunge. It's based solely on the notion of a more commercial friendly "grunge" sound, but you could argue that many of the Seattle Grunge bands themselves released songs that were just as radio friendly. One song that instantly comes to mind is Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit". The only thing that really sets it apart from post-grunge songs such as "Comedown" and "Tomorrow", is the fact that Nirvana originated from Seattle and were apart of the original Grunge movement. Generally speaking, it isn't stylistically different from the latter songs and all three have the same characteristics (e.g "raw" sound, drawn out vocals) which define Grunge. 

I agree, songs such as "I Alone", "Shine" and "Good" are quite clearly post-grunge. There actually is a stylistic difference between those songs and the songs produced by the original Seattle bands. Most post-grunge songs do fit into the post-grunge category quite easily, however with that said, I think you could make a case for the more "Grunge" sounding Mid-90s post-grunge songs (such as "Comedown" and "Tomorrow") as being labelled Grunge. They may have been released after the original Grunge movement, but they have the same stylistic sound and aesthetics as the Seattle Grunge bands. Besides, the Grunge label isn't solely reserved for the Seattle bands that emerged into the mainstream. Stone Temple Pilots are viewed as being a Grunge band, but they originate from San Diego.

It may be radio-friendly, but it's meaningless lyrics (e.g "disco lemonade"), drawn out vocals and overall sound makes it an ideal candidate for it to be a Grunge song. To be fair, Grunge is such a loose label as it is. I think you could make a case for several Mid-90s post-grunge songs (e.g "Comedown", "Tomorrow") as being Grunge.


Grunge is known for nonsense lyrics but it's rather unfair. It was mainly Nirvana's popular songs that led to this impression, but most of the early grunge bands had rather normal lyrics in the sense that they are figurative but not nonsense. For example, most of Pearl Jam's songs, Soundgarden's, Alice in Chains', and even Stone Temple Pilots' have pretty normal lyrics. Also, nonsense lyrics are not exclusive to grunge.

As to the broader point, I agree with Infinity that there's a big difference between mid-90s grunge/post-grunge and Marcy Playground's "Sex and Candy." Yes, the songs off Bush's "Sixteen Stone" album are hard to distinguish from earlier 90s grunge hits just based on how they sound, so whether to call them grunge or post-grunge is a distinction that doesn't go very far. Noting that Bush, however, and other "post-grunge" bands weren't from Seattle remains important, though, since the grunge scene was so associated with Seattle in the public mind.

So it seems the main distinctions are between early/Seattle grunge, mid-90s grunge or non-Seattle grunge, and grungy music from the later 90s and 2000s. It's not too important what each is called as long as the distinctions are recognized, and of course there's finer distinctions to be made in each category.

"Disco lemonade?" "Why I'm Here" easily out-cheeses that line with "everyone I know considers me a clown." :P

But the technical definition of post-grunge is basically rock music that mimics the Seattle bands, usually with a radio-friendly bent. I agree that not much distinguishes "Comedown" and "Tomorrow" from genuine grunge songs, but on the other hand, stuff like "Shine," "Plowed," "Good," "Far Behind," and "I Alone" fits pretty snugly into the post-grunge category. It's just that all of these tracks sound like they came directly out of Seattle when compared to 2000s post-grunge hits like "Lips of an Angel," "How You Remind Me," and "My Sacrifice."

If you want to stretch it even further, Def Leppard's "When Love & Hate Collide" did decently on the Mainstream Top 40 in the US and actually hit #2 in the UK in late 1995.


Also, I agree that it's important to distinguish mid-90s songs like "I Alone" and "Far Behind" from Bush's "Sixteen Stone" album. The latter are much closer in style to early-90s grunge songs, and the dividing line here, "radio friendliness," has something to do with how aggressive or unforgiving the songs sound. However, Pearl Jam had a less aggressive sound than Soundgarden or Alice in Chains even in the early 90s.

1990s Grunge began in 1991, and died out around 1995.

I love that Marcy Playground song! 1997/1998, great times.  8)  8)  8)  8)  8)

As to what grunge really is, that's a huge question. Heavy distortion, a grungy look, and a nihilistic attitude filled with despair and angst are part of it. I've heard it said that among the early major Seattle bands, Nirvana was more like punk, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains were like metal, and Pearl Jam was like alternative rock. Of course I can hear these distinctions; anyone could who listens to them. But this point is often used to argue that there's not much of a grunge style just in terms of the sound, but rather it's a combination of look and attitude and origination in Seattle or else having been influenced by the Seattle bands.

But Soundgarden and Alice in Chains don't sound like metal from their time. They lack the symphonic quality heard in everything from hair metal to Metallica to black metal, Soundgarden moreso than Alice in Chains, although Alice in Chains songs like "Would" don't have a symphonic quality at all, whereas "Down in a Hole" has something of the sort. Also, Nirvana doesn't sound like punk music, though the influence is there.

So maybe there is some common thread between them in terms of their sound, beyond just the distorted guitars.

Anyone have ideas? Infinity, do you know?

The last hair metal hit in the 1990s was probably Firehouse's "I Live My Life For You" which hit the Billboard top 20 in early 1995. 1992 actually had a number of hair metal acts that were still charting well (Mr. Big, Firehouse, Def Leppard, Damn Yankees, Saigon Kick, Guns N'Roses).


You could even make the case that Bon Jovi's "It's My Life" was the last hair metal hit. Granted the band had moved away from the glam image, but the song itself still has the classic hair metal sound.

...Nirvana was more like punk


There's no doubting that Nirvana were heavily influenced by punk, but I don't think they ever sounded like punk at any point. If you listen to Nirvana's Bleach album, a lot of the songs have more of a garage-rock or alternative rock sound. There are elements of grunge on the album, however it wasn't the well renowned sound of the band's breakthrough into the mainstream.

You could even make the case that Bon Jovi's "It's My Life" was the last hair metal hit. Granted the band had moved away from the glam image, but the song itself still has the classic hair metal sound.


Do you think that it had that sound for the glam metal revival, which started circa 1997?

Do you think that it had that sound for the glam metal revival, which started circa 1997?


It has some modern synths, but parts of it (like the chorus) sound like something from 1987. Compared to The Darkness' "I Believe in a Thing Called Love," it sounds closer to classic hair metal.