The Pop Culture Information Society...
These are the messages that have been posted on inthe00s over the past few years.
Check out the messageboard archive index for a complete list of topic areas.
This archive is periodically refreshed with the latest messages from the current messageboard.
Check for new replies or respond here...
Subject: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: TheMusicdewd on 06/29/15 at 12:53 am
People always act like the 1980's are ancient and antiquated, while the 1990's are still fresh and relevant, and I used to feel that way myself.
But recently I've been looking at photos and videos from the 90's, and listening to 90's music, and I honestly feel most of the 90's was not that different from the 80's. 90's pop music was still full of gated drums and cheesiness, and there wasn't nearly as much rap on the charts as you'd think. Bryan Adams and Michael Bolton were still considered the bees knees from 1990 to 1994, that's how bad it was. Hell, even Britney's debut album is much more similar to a Debbie Gibson album than to any recent pop album I've heard.
Even as late as 1997, you still had tons of people with thick rimmed glasses, mullets, overalls, and turtlenecks! The clothes people wore back in the Early to Mid 90's are much more similar to 70's and 80's clothing, than to clothing from after 2000. The TV was more similar too, sitcoms still dominated the decade. TV didn't start to become raunchier until South Park came out in 1997. The only reality shows from the 90's, I can remember are Blind Date, COPS and The Real World.
Most people would probably peg this video around 1990, but it's actually from 1997:
A81IwlDeV6c
People think that 1989 and before was pre-Internet times and that the 1990's to today is the "Internet era" (the Internet's actually existed since the 70's) and they're like day and night. But, actually the Internet use was surprisingly low even in 1999 - only about 35-40% of Americans were online then (and far lower than that for almost every other country in the world), and fewer than 10 percent in 1994. Hardly anyone was online in 1993 aside from gamers and academics. If you were lucky, you might have had a college email address but that's about it. Most people in western countries didn't even own computers, only a large minority did. The world was still a much bigger place than today and information traveled a lot more slowly even though "globalization" was really starting to kick into gear then.
Or what about this Nickelodeon Commercial Break:
Lm9eHCochIo
Most people would confuse these for being 1993 commercials when they are actually from 1999!
Cell phones were around throughout the 90's, but there wasn't really a "cell phone culture" until the early 2000's. My parents didn't have cell phones until 2002. Most people didn't feel a need to have one because there was a payphone on every corner, the sound quality was inferior, and they were expensive compared to landlines. I do remember many people owned "beepers".
Digital cameras were apparently around, but I don't remember them until the very late 90's and the quality was so terrible and the price so high that everyone still used film, even as late as the early 2000's. The only digital technology that pretty much everyone used was CD players.
People on this site always treat the 1990's as if it was the same as the 2000's and 2010's, but it was much different than those decades. I'll admit the the Late 90's and Early 2000's were similar to the 90's, but the Mid 2000's through now are definitely not anything like the 90's . The 90's were the last decade imo, to have a "vintage" feel to it. Now movies from the 90's are starting to get those flicker specks older movies developed over time. Turner Classic Movies even recently started showing movies from the 90's. Things like grunge, Titanic, Jurassic Park, the Spice Girls, TRL era acts(Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, Nsync, etc) Austin Powers, Beavis and Butt-Head, Clueless, the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, and other 90's pop culture icons certainly don't feel anything like today's pop culture.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: #Infinity on 06/29/15 at 3:25 am
The lack of the Cold War in the 90s is a pretty big friggin' difference from the 80s, geopolitically. Also, 90s fashions, while dated today, weren't as overstated as those of the 80s.
Musically, the two decades are extremely different, aside from the early 90s being a continuation of late 1988-1989 culture. Genres like grunge, gangsta rap, alternative, contemporary r&b, etc. were completely opposite of 80s hair rock, synth pop, hi-nrg, etc. The decade was less flashy, less electronic, and generally more experimental (even though the 80s had a very memorable, distinct sound). Honestly, I think the 90s were more like the 70s musically than the 80s, as there was a lot of acoustic rock in both periods (Eagles, Wings, and Fleetwood Mac for the 70s; Gin Blossoms, Hootie & the Blowfish, R.E.M., etc. for the 90s), and even contemporary 90s pop contains deep Motown influences, as opposed to just experimenting with technology.
In the world of cinema, too, the 90s were a bit more diverse, partially because CGI was much more standard in movies, but also because the decade produced a lot of serious and highly influential films, such as The Shawshank Redemption, Se7en, Forrest Gump, and Pulp Fiction, to name a few. Also, the Disney Renaissance more or less heralded a completely new era for animation in general, and was followed by several fresh, popular TV series in the 90s like the Simpsons, Beavis & Butthead, the original Nicktoons, and the original Cartoon Cartoons. These shows were more rebellious and broke the old, cookie cutter style that had defined Saturday morning cartoons in the past. The 80s were not very different from the 60s in terms of animated features and programs, but the turn of the 90s and beyond very much changed all of that.
On a technical level, the 80s and 90s aren't extremely different, but a lot of subtle factors caused the two decades to have extremely different feng-shuis.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: af2010 on 06/29/15 at 4:08 am
It depends on what part of the decades you're comparing. The early 80s still had a strong late 70s/disco vibe, which was completely different from the late 90s (or any part of the 90s for that matter). I sort of agree that the "look" of the 90s (up until 97 or so) wasn't that different from the latter part of the 80s; of course each decade had distinct sub-cultures like new wave, grunge, etc., but normal everyday people didn't look that different.
But like Infinity said, the pop culture of the two decades was quite different. A big difference I've noticed is that 80s (and very early 90s) pop culture lacked irony for the most part. Look at Rick Astley or Vanilla Ice; they actually took themselves seriously. I think that's a big reason why the 80s became cheesey almost overnight, while the 90s have never really had much backlash.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: anything on 06/29/15 at 4:22 am
Cell phones were around throughout the 90's, but there wasn't really a "cell phone culture" until the early 2000's. I do remember many people owned "beepers".
Yes, collect call ads aired until or after 2003.
People on this site always treat the 1990's as if it was the same as the 2000's and 2010's, but it was much different than those decades.
Yeah.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: tnf on 06/29/15 at 10:54 am
The (core) 80s and the (core) 90s were really different, I don't think it's overrated.
I would divide the eras into 1978-1982, 1983-1987, 1988-1992, 1993-1996, 1997-2002, 2003-2007 and 2008-now (fashion seems to change slower nowadays), btw. Each era has its own style when it comes to clothing, technology and music, different from the era before.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: ArcticFox on 06/29/15 at 5:26 pm
People always act like the 1980's are ancient and antiquated, while the 1990's are still fresh and relevant, and I used to feel that way myself.
No, nobody thinks that way of the '90s. What world are you living in? If that above statement was true, then Lara Croft and Sonic the Hedgehog would still be cool in their original '90s forms.
But recently I've been looking at photos and videos from the 90's, and listening to 90's music, and I honestly feel most of the 90's was not that different from the 80's. 90's pop music was still full of gated drums and cheesiness, and there wasn't nearly as much rap on the charts as you'd think. Bryan Adams and Michael Bolton were still considered the bees knees from 1990 to 1994, that's how bad it was. Hell, even Britney's debut album is much more similar to a Debbie Gibson album than to any recent pop album I've heard.
So have I, but I have actually realized that the '90s are really frickin' different from the '80s and '00s. Before I looked into it I didn't understand the differences, but now I do. Early 1990s pop music (1990-1993) was still loaded with "gated drums" and cheesiness, with not as much rap as people think. It's really from the mid 1990s onwards (1994-1999) that cheese disappeared and gated drums were gone. They were replaced with drum machines (which had very thick sounds), latin percussions, and real drums. Lyrically speaking, the mid and late '90s dealt with more serious themes.
How does Hit Baby One More Time possibly sound like Electric Love?! Cultural periods of time lose relevance after four years, and lose (potential) similarities after seven. That means you can only compare 1998 at the farthest to 1991 and 2005.
Say hello to this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=6AsEAAAAMBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s
Thousands of Billboard magazines are on Google Books. It literally has every weekly issue from the beginning of 1995 to the end of 1999. When you look at this portion, there really was as much Urban music (Hip-hop, R&B, Soul, Rap) as people say there is. As a matter of fact, people overstate the popularity of rock music on the charts, and understate the importance of Black music. The 1990's were The Decade for urban black culture.
Even as late as 1997, you still had tons of people with thick rimmed glasses, mullets, overalls, and turtlenecks! The clothes people wore back in the Early to Mid 90's are much more similar to 70's and 80's clothing, than to clothing from after 2000.
Overalls and turtlenecks were still in fashion as late as 2003. I actually want those two to come back so I can wear them. Only people over the age of 35 had mullets and massive eyeglasses from the mid '90s onwards.
Admittedly, the first half of the 1990s was not that different from the '80s in terms of fashion (with the possible exception of 1994). It was in 1996 where things really changed. Here's proof:
http://www.valdosta.edu/colleges/nursing-and-health-sciences/athletic-training/images/1996.jpg
http://ubuntupictures.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/soul51.jpg?w=1200
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DUbePc2_5Dw/TGokTA0K5AI/AAAAAAAAAOs/UZn1HQvuyYI/s1600/Amber_4_BK.jpg
https://ubuntupictures.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/soul11.jpg?w=1200
http://transform.fairfaxregional.com.au/transform/v1/crop/frm/storypad-35WVUfxfAJ5ewz9B7wdJW9B/77afc043-bb59-4877-919d-070c7531ca28.JPG/r909_515_4151_3165_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg
http://callisto.ggsrv.com/imgsrv/FastFetch/UBER1/afaa_0011_0001_0_img0109
Pre-fame celebrities in the '90s and their fashion:
http://cdn.brobible.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/The-rock.png
http://spazioweb.inwind.it/vampirocripta/set/setstuntscbuffy.jpg
http://www.fanphobia.net/uploads/actors_2/38324/sophia-crawford.jpg
(^ Stunt performer Sophia Crawford in 1995)
http://breatheheavy.com/xray/albums/Candids/1998%20and%20earlier/1996%20-%201998/1997%20-%20In%20Kentwood%20Louisiana%20Picture%20taken%20by%20Reg%20Jones/15yearsOLD.jpg
http://www.starer.ru/images/christina-aguilera/ed-smith-photoshoot-1998/small/4.jpg
http://i.imgbox.com/RZrYR10c.jpg
http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/06/05/45/1595764/6/628x471.jpg
The second half of the 1990's are nothing like the '80s at all. This is especially true among those under the age of 35.
Most people would probably peg this video around 1990, but it's actually from 1997:
A81IwlDeV6c
The mom's hairstyle (The Flip, a throwback to the 1960's) didn't become fashionable until 1994. The son's hairstyle became cool in 1992. The whole video looks like 1994 rather than 1990. I actually have pictures of my family from 1990 in my house, and 1990 looks nothing like that.
Lakewood High School, recap of the 1996-1997 school year. This is what '96 and '97 actually looked like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3-bAcgPLI
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 06/30/15 at 9:19 am
No, nobody thinks that way of the '90s. What world are you living in? If that above statement was true, then Lara Croft and Sonic the Hedgehog would still be cool in their original '90s forms.
So have I, but I have actually realized that the '90s are really frickin' different from the '80s and '00s. Before I looked into it I didn't understand the differences, but now I do. Early 1990s pop music (1990-1993) was still loaded with "gated drums" and cheesiness, with not as much rap as people think. It's really from the mid 1990s onwards (1994-1999) that cheese disappeared and gated drums were gone. They were replaced with drum machines (which had very thick sounds), latin percussions, and real drums. Lyrically speaking, the mid and late '90s dealt with more serious themes.
How does Hit Baby One More Time possibly sound like Electric Love?! Cultural periods of time lose relevance after four years, and lose (potential) similarities after seven. That means you can only compare 1998 at the farthest to 1991 and 2005.
Say hello to this:
http://books.google.com/books?id=6AsEAAAAMBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s
Thousands of Billboard magazines are on Google Books. It literally has every weekly issue from the beginning of 1995 to the end of 1999. When you look at this portion, there really was as much Urban music (Hip-hop, R&B, Soul, Rap) as people say there is. As a matter of fact, people overstate the popularity of rock music on the charts, and understate the importance of Black music. The 1990's were The Decade for urban black culture.
Overalls and turtlenecks were still in fashion as late as 2003. I actually want those two to come back so I can wear them. Only people over the age of 35 had mullets and massive eyeglasses from the mid '90s onwards.
Admittedly, the first half of the 1990s was not that different from the '80s in terms of fashion (with the possible exception of 1994). It was in 1996 where things really changed. Here's proof:
http://www.valdosta.edu/colleges/nursing-and-health-sciences/athletic-training/images/1996.jpg
http://ubuntupictures.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/soul51.jpg?w=1200
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DUbePc2_5Dw/TGokTA0K5AI/AAAAAAAAAOs/UZn1HQvuyYI/s1600/Amber_4_BK.jpg
https://ubuntupictures.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/soul11.jpg?w=1200
http://transform.fairfaxregional.com.au/transform/v1/crop/frm/storypad-35WVUfxfAJ5ewz9B7wdJW9B/77afc043-bb59-4877-919d-070c7531ca28.JPG/r909_515_4151_3165_w1200_h678_fmax.jpg
http://callisto.ggsrv.com/imgsrv/FastFetch/UBER1/afaa_0011_0001_0_img0109
Pre-fame celebrities in the '90s and their fashion:
http://cdn.brobible.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/The-rock.png
http://spazioweb.inwind.it/vampirocripta/set/setstuntscbuffy.jpg
http://www.fanphobia.net/uploads/actors_2/38324/sophia-crawford.jpg
(^ Stunt performer Sophia Crawford in 1995)
http://breatheheavy.com/xray/albums/Candids/1998%20and%20earlier/1996%20-%201998/1997%20-%20In%20Kentwood%20Louisiana%20Picture%20taken%20by%20Reg%20Jones/15yearsOLD.jpg
http://www.starer.ru/images/christina-aguilera/ed-smith-photoshoot-1998/small/4.jpg
http://i.imgbox.com/RZrYR10c.jpg
http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/06/05/45/1595764/6/628x471.jpg
The second half of the 1990's are nothing like the '80s at all. This is especially true among those under the age of 35.
The mom's hairstyle (The Flip, a throwback to the 1960's) didn't become fashionable until 1994. The son's hairstyle became cool in 1992. The whole video looks like 1994 rather than 1990. I actually have pictures of my family from 1990 in my house, and 1990 looks nothing like that.
Lakewood High School, recap of the 1996-1997 school year. This is what '96 and '97 actually looked like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF3-bAcgPLI
You should listen to tnf. The mid '90s were from 1993 to 1996.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: winteriscoming on 06/30/15 at 10:55 pm
Early 1990s pop music (1990-1993) was still loaded with "gated drums" and cheesiness, with not as much rap as people think. It's really from the mid 1990s onwards (1994-1999) that cheese disappeared and gated drums were gone. They were replaced with drum machines (which had very thick sounds), latin percussions, and real drums. Lyrically speaking, the mid and late '90s dealt with more serious themes.
How does Hit Baby One More Time possibly sound like Electric Love?! Cultural periods of time lose relevance after four years, and lose (potential) similarities after seven. That means you can only compare 1998 at the farthest to 1991 and 2005.
I don't think Hit Me Baby One More Time sounds like Electric Love, but I do think it sounds much closer in time to it than it does to something like "Shake It Off" by Taylor Swift. Hell, it even sounds more similar to late 80s pop than it does to Britney's own third album!
There was still plenty of gated-drum/cheesy non-ironic music in the middle and later 90s. Savage Garden is a great example. AC and R&B music in general had that sound throughout the 90s. I actually think a lot of the "fempop" like Jewel and Alanis Morrissette is extremely cheesy by today's standards too.
The end of the Cold War is a big difference of course, but keep in mind there is also a huge similarity that is related. In that the 80s began the trend of globalization and the movement towards free markets, and this actually accelerated in the 90s. In a way, you could say the 90s was even more "80s" in its political and economic values than the 80s itself!
Not to mention the USSR and China were already inching away from planned economies and opening themselves up to the world even before the USSR went kaput. And the nuclear threat still remains very real.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: #Infinity on 06/30/15 at 11:42 pm
There was still plenty of gated-drum/cheesy non-ironic music in the middle and later 90s. Savage Garden is a great example. AC and R&B music in general had that sound throughout the 90s. I actually think a lot of the "fempop" like Jewel and Alanis Morrissette is extremely cheesy by today's standards too.
They weren't really gated-drum songs, even though they definitely have a lot of melodic similarity to late 80s artists like Taylor Dayne and Belinda Carlisle. Cheesy, non-ironic music has pretty much always existed though, from the disco anthems of the 70s, to the snap rap of the 2000s, to the EDM of today. Thus, instrumentation and technology are really the only major distinguishers between different eras of manufactured pop. Britney Spears, BSB, Spice Girls, etc. had a much sleeker production style than Belinda Carlisle, Tiffany, Debbie Gibson, etc., who had louder drums and sharper synths, giving their songs a less synthetic feel, imo.
The end of the Cold War is a big difference of course, but keep in mind there is also a huge similarity that is related. In that the 80s began the trend of globalization and the movement towards free markets, and this actually accelerated in the 90s. In a way, you could say the 90s was even more "80s" in its political and economic values than the 80s itself!
Not to mention the USSR and China were already inching away from planned economies and opening themselves up to the world even before the USSR went kaput. And the nuclear threat still remains very real.
Communism was definitely on its way out by the 80s, but the United States had always been aggressively promoting free market policies since the beginning of the Cold War. The 80s were pretty much just a restatement of the 50s in that regard. It wasn't until the 90s that the anti-Communist movements in the Eastern bloc states truly began to materialize, since there was no USSR to simply mark the continued establishment of Communism as a globally accepted form of government. The 80s looked back to the past, whereas the 90s looked primarily towards the future.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: bchris02 on 06/30/15 at 11:50 pm
Things settled into a status quo pretty early on in the '80s and evolved slowly through about 1992. The '90s were revolutionary because of how changeful they were. Somebody compared them to the 1970s but I think the 1960s is a better comparison. The 1960s started out as an extension of the 1950s and then things really amped up going into mid-decade. By 1969, society had completely changed.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 07/01/15 at 12:20 am
Things settled into a status quo pretty early on in the '80s and evolved slowly through about 1992. The '90s were revolutionary because of how changeful they were. Somebody compared them to the 1970s but I think the 1960s is a better comparison. The 1960s started out as an extension of the 1950s and then things really amped up going into mid-decade. By 1969, society had completely changed.
It was quite changeful like the 60s but I think the 00s were like the 60s and the current era is like the 70s! ArcticFox even talked about it in a thread motnhs ago!
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 07/01/15 at 9:19 am
People think that 1989 and before was pre-Internet times and that the 1990's to today is the "Internet era" (the Internet's actually existed since the 70's) and they're like day and night. But, actually the Internet use was surprisingly low even in 1999 - only about 35-40% of Americans were online then (and far lower than that for almost every other country in the world), and fewer than 10 percent in 1994. Hardly anyone was online in 1993 aside from gamers and academics. If you were lucky, you might have had a college email address but that's about it. Most people in western countries didn't even own computers, only a large minority did. The world was still a much bigger place than today and information traveled a lot more slowly even though "globalization" was really starting to kick into gear then.
This is an excellent point that I think often gets overlooked. I sometimes see the rise of the internet in the '90s compared to that of television in the '50s, and I do think that's a pretty fair comparison, but people seem to forget that even by 1959 there were still large swaths of the civilized world that did not yet have access to television. Same with the internet in the '90s. By the end of 1999 less than 5% of the world's population had internet access. Among the 95% that didn't was my family which, as I've mentioned before, didn't get connected to the net until the Spring of 2000. And, of course, even if you did have the internet in 1999, there wasn't really that much you could do on it compared to today, as slow dial-up connection speeds made watching a video, or even downloading a song, damn near impossible.
As for the difference between the '80s and '90s, it's somewhat hard for me to judge, since I was only alive for two-and-a-half years in the '80s. By the time you get to 1999 there had obviously been some pretty large cultural changes, but, generally though, I do think that the difference between the later half of the '80s and the first half of the '90s is a bit overstated at times.
I mean, sure, music changed, fashion styles changed, etc., but if you were, say, a 45-year-old soccer mom in 1994 that had been out of touch with pop culture for fifteen years, would things really have seemed that different to you than 1988? I would say no. I mean, you likely still hadn't heard of the internet yet, cell phones were still a luxury item for the well-off, and the more vulgar entertainment of the late '90s that you would have worried about your kids seeing (like South Park, WWF Attitude, Limp Bizkit, etc.) was still a few years away. Take a look at this block of commercials from 1994 and tell me, reasonably, how many of them could have aired back in 1988 and no one would have noticed a difference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tif4OvcflrM
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: #Infinity on 07/01/15 at 5:02 pm
the more vulgar entertainment of the late '90s that you would have worried about your kids seeing (like South Park, WWF Attitude, Limp Bizkit, etc.) was still a few years away.
Actually, most of the really controversial media started in 1992. Musically, that year saw the release of Body Count's notorious Cop Killer, Rage Against the Machine's self-titled debut, and eventually Dr. Dre's game-chanigng The Chronic. In the gaming world, 1992 was the first year in which parents truly began to fear for what their kids were exposed to, eventually leading to the creation of the video game rating system. Some of 1992's landmark titles include Wolfenstein 3D (arguably the first mainstream FPS), Mortal Kombat, and Night Trap. In a sense, you can say that a lot of the family values innocence of the 80s really died out in 1992, causing the 90s as a whole to feel much more rebellious.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: ArcticFox on 07/01/15 at 10:54 pm
Oops. I meant to say "Electric Youth", not Electric Love. The Debbie Gibson song I mean.
I guess I kind of understand the early Britney Spears/Debbie Gibson time similarities. Of course "Baby One More Time" is not going to sound like a modern pop song, it's been almost 20 years since that song came out.
I have to say, I think OutKast's Stankonia album sounds more like LL Cool J's late '80s/early '90s work than it does SpeakerBoxxx/The Love Below. Hip-Hop changed a lot in a few years (although they've never been trend followers to begin with).
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: 80sfan on 07/02/15 at 12:30 am
Actually, most of the really controversial media started in 1992. Musically, that year saw the release of Body Count's notorious Cop Killer, Rage Against the Machine's self-titled debut, and eventually Dr. Dre's game-chanigng The Chronic. In the gaming world, 1992 was the first year in which parents truly began to fear for what their kids were exposed to, eventually leading to the creation of the video game rating system. Some of 1992's landmark titles include Wolfenstein 3D (arguably the first mainstream FPS), Mortal Kombat, and Night Trap. In a sense, you can say that a lot of the family values innocence of the 80s really died out in 1992, causing the 90s as a whole to feel much more rebellious.
Madonna also had her Sex book in 1992. And her Erotica album. Boy oh boy! :o
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: 80sfan on 07/02/15 at 12:32 am
I don't think it's overrated how different they are at all.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: 80sfan on 07/02/15 at 12:32 am
Funny. Some people found the Simpsons vulgar in 1990, when it started to blow up in popularity.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: #Infinity on 07/02/15 at 3:56 am
Funny. Some people found the Simpsons vulgar in 1990, when it started to blow up in popularity.
Pretty sure Bush made his comment about wanting American families to be "more like the Waltons and less like the Simpsons" in 1992, when he was running for reelection.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: 80sfan on 07/02/15 at 9:28 am
Pretty sure Bush made his comment about wanting American families to be "more like the Waltons and less like the Simpsons" in 1992, when he was running for reelection.
Oh yeah, now that makes your 1992 theory even more plausible.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: #Infinity on 07/02/15 at 9:51 am
Ren & Stimpy can be easily categorized with this period of change, as well. It premiered in 1991, but its peak was in 1992, after which John Kricfaluci got fired due to the show's controversy but the series had already left its mark on 90s youth culture.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 07/02/15 at 10:44 am
Actually, most of the really controversial media started in 1992. Musically, that year saw the release of Body Count's notorious Cop Killer, Rage Against the Machine's self-titled debut, and eventually Dr. Dre's game-chanigng The Chronic. In the gaming world, 1992 was the first year in which parents truly began to fear for what their kids were exposed to, eventually leading to the creation of the video game rating system. Some of 1992's landmark titles include Wolfenstein 3D (arguably the first mainstream FPS), Mortal Kombat, and Night Trap. In a sense, you can say that a lot of the family values innocence of the 80s really died out in 1992, causing the 90s as a whole to feel much more rebellious.
Oh sure, there was still plenty of "vulgar" media for moral guardians to complain about back in the early '90s (1992 was the year of Pat Buchanan's infamous "Culture War" speech after all). The Simpsons, Gangsta Rap, video games and all of that were huge targets for social conservative types back then. Heck, even the '80s had Tipper Gore and her one woman crusade against rock music.
It just seems to me, from my recollections of the time period, that after 1997 (when South Park, Marilyn Manson, Jerry Springer and "Trash TV" really exploded) the amount of hand wringing and pearl clutching over violent and sexually explicit media increased to levels not seen since the '60s. This was especially true after the Clinton Impeachment saga and Columbine, when all that the talking heads on cable news could seem to talk about was America being in a state of unprecedented "moral decline", and what government could do (though censorship naturally) to combat the problem. That kind of talk, of course, continues today, but I do think it died down a little bit after September 11th, when the focus in both the media and in Washington began to shift towards terrorism.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 07/02/15 at 12:21 pm
Oh sure, there was still plenty of "vulgar" media for moral guardians to complain about back in the early '90s (1992 was the year of Pat Buchanan's infamous "Culture War" speech after all). The Simpsons, Gangsta Rap, video games and all of that were huge targets for social conservative types back then. Heck, even the '80s had Tipper Gore and her one woman crusade against rock music.
It just seems to me, from my recollections of the time period, that after 1997 (when South Park, Marilyn Manson, Jerry Springer and "Trash TV" really exploded) the amount of hand wringing and pearl clutching over violent and sexually explicit media increased to levels not seen since the '60s. This was especially true after the Clinton Impeachment saga and Columbine, when all that the talking heads on cable news could seem to talk about was America being in a state of unprecedented "moral decline", and what government could do (though censorship naturally) to combat the problem. That kind of talk, of course, continues today, but I do think it died down a little bit after September 11th, when the focus in both the media and in Washington began to shift towards terrorism.
People started to focus less on personal issues after 9/11, then people started focusing on serious political issues!
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Howard on 07/02/15 at 2:13 pm
Actually, most of the really controversial media started in 1992. Musically, that year saw the release of Body Count's notorious Cop Killer, Rage Against the Machine's self-titled debut, and eventually Dr. Dre's game-chanigng The Chronic. In the gaming world, 1992 was the first year in which parents truly began to fear for what their kids were exposed to, eventually leading to the creation of the video game rating system. Some of 1992's landmark titles include Wolfenstein 3D (arguably the first mainstream FPS), Mortal Kombat, and Night Trap. In a sense, you can say that a lot of the family values innocence of the 80s really died out in 1992, causing the 90s as a whole to feel much more rebellious.
and that's when audiences wanted change, They wanted stuff with attitude and that's what we got during the mid to late 1990's.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Howard on 07/02/15 at 2:15 pm
Madonna also had her Sex book in 1992. And her Erotica album. Boy oh boy! :o
Don't forget her video "Justify My Love" which was banned.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Howard on 07/02/15 at 2:16 pm
Funny. Some people found the Simpsons vulgar in 1990, when it started to blow up in popularity.
and they've been on the air for over 25 years. :o
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Howard on 07/02/15 at 2:17 pm
Ren & Stimpy can be easily categorized with this period of change, as well. It premiered in 1991, but its peak was in 1992, after which John Kricfaluci got fired due to the show's controversy but the series had already left its mark on 90s youth culture.
You can also put Beavis And Butthead in that category.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: #Infinity on 07/02/15 at 5:37 pm
You can also put Beavis And Butthead in that category.
Well, it premiered in 1993 (though Frog Baseball is from 1992), but it certainly added fuel to the fire.
It just seems to me, from my recollections of the time period, that after 1997 (when South Park, Marilyn Manson, Jerry Springer and "Trash TV" really exploded) the amount of hand wringing and pearl clutching over violent and sexually explicit media increased to levels not seen since the '60s. This was especially true after the Clinton Impeachment saga and Columbine, when all that the talking heads on cable news could seem to talk about was America being in a state of unprecedented "moral decline", and what government could do (though censorship naturally) to combat the problem. That kind of talk, of course, continues today, but I do think it died down a little bit after September 11th, when the focus in both the media and in Washington began to shift towards terrorism.
I guess you can say that the 90s in general were defined by popular media controversy, although I'd personally argue that 9/11 only expanded upon this foundation, rather than undermining it. Just think about how many types of media were suddenly banned for even the vaguest reminders of the attacks. Songs as random as Alanis Morissette's Ironic and John Lennon's Imagine appeared on the Clear Channel memorandum's list of inappropriate songs to play on the radio, not to mention movies and television episodes with somewhat dark themes got postponed or cancelled. It feels like during those months following 9/11, you were expected to be more on your best behavior than anytime since the 50s, and displaying any kind of rebellious attitude put a target on your back for suspicious activity.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: 80sfan on 07/02/15 at 6:13 pm
and they've been on the air for over 25 years. :o
1989 to now is.....how many years?? :D
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 07/02/15 at 6:19 pm
1989 to now is.....how many years?? :D
26!!!!!
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: 80sfan on 07/02/15 at 11:22 pm
26!!!!!
Yeah!!!
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: winteriscoming on 07/03/15 at 1:17 am
Ren & Stimpy can be easily categorized with this period of change, as well. It premiered in 1991, but its peak was in 1992, after which John Kricfaluci got fired due to the show's controversy but the series had already left its mark on 90s youth culture.
The 80s reboot of the Twilight Zone was pretty edgy and creepy too.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Eazy-EMAN1995 on 07/03/15 at 1:49 am
To answer the poster's question, no people do not overrate how different the 90s were to the 80s! I mean comparing the look and feel of the music, tv shows, and politics from mid 90s to that of the mid 80s is just mind blowing if you think of it! Cartoons of the 90s looked and felft brand new and edgy looking compared to the typical Saturday morning over the top cheesy 80s cartoons! The age of Clinton was far more liberal than the old school cold war conservatism of the Ronald Reagan era! The crazy violent ECW and WWF Attitude type wrestling was a MASSIVE change from the classic good guys and bad guy super hero from the WWF Rock n Wrestling Hulk Hogan era of the 80s and even early 90s! The Internet and the 3D era of video gaming(N64 and PS1) were all new as well! Compare Once Upon A time in America to Casino, The Untouchables to LA Confidential, Jurassic Park to Return of the Jedi Also Compare Batman 89 to the Matrix from 1999!!!!!! :o :D
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Howard on 07/03/15 at 7:19 am
1989 to now is.....how many years?? :D
26.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 07/03/15 at 9:26 am
I guess you can say that the 90s in general were defined by popular media controversy, although I'd personally argue that 9/11 only expanded upon this foundation, rather than undermining it. Just think about how many types of media were suddenly banned for even the vaguest reminders of the attacks. Songs as random as Alanis Morissette's Ironic and John Lennon's Imagine appeared on the Clear Channel memorandum's list of inappropriate songs to play on the radio, not to mention movies and television episodes with somewhat dark themes got postponed or cancelled. It feels like during those months following 9/11, you were expected to be more on your best behavior than anytime since the 50s, and displaying any kind of rebellious attitude put a target on your back for suspicious activity.
That's a good point about the early post-9/11 days. Censorship did intensify in many ways, but the reasoning for it shifted away from the "Think of the children!" mentality that dominated '90s culture, to more of the "You're either with us, or with the terrorists!" rationale of the Bush Doctrine era. I remember Bill Maher's show "Politically Incorrect" being taken off the air not long after 9/11 because of some comments he and a guest made about the attacks, and I even recall some movies (like the one where Jackie Chan was supposed to play a window washer at the World Trade Center) being outright cancelled.
And yeah, the Clear Channel song banning stuff was too stupid for words. They actually tried to take "Tuesday's Gone" by Lynyrd Skynyrd off classic rock station playlists because September 11th just happened to fall on a Tuesday. :P
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: winteriscoming on 07/03/15 at 2:41 pm
The age of Clinton was far more liberal than the old school cold war conservatism of the Ronald Reagan era!
Actually, hardly. The 90s was the era of the "End of History" and Washington Consensus and the dereg and libertarianism that went along with it. Gay rights was still not supported by a majority, and while interracial marriage was more acceptable than it was in the 80s that's largely due to older people dying off. The death penalty saw its absolute peak in public support in the US with a whopping 80 percent in favor of it in 1994. Fascist and right-wing parties started to make a comeback in Europe and the anti-government movement really started kicking into gear.
I don't buy the idea that the 90s was a liberal or left wing time for America. Indeed in the whole world it continued (and accelerated) the march towards the Right, especially economically.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Emman on 07/03/15 at 5:48 pm
Things settled into a status quo pretty early on in the '80s and evolved slowly through about 1992. The '90s were revolutionary because of how changeful they were. Somebody compared them to the 1970s but I think the 1960s is a better comparison. The 1960s started out as an extension of the 1950s and then things really amped up going into mid-decade. By 1969, society had completely changed.
This is largely not true, although the spark was lit in the late '60s society truly changed by most measures during the 1970s.
I would never consider the '90s as a "revolutionary" decade in the same sense when comparing it to what happened in the 1960s.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: bchris02 on 07/03/15 at 9:15 pm
Well, it premiered in 1993 (though Frog Baseball is from 1992), but it certainly added fuel to the fire.
I guess you can say that the 90s in general were defined by popular media controversy, although I'd personally argue that 9/11 only expanded upon this foundation, rather than undermining it. Just think about how many types of media were suddenly banned for even the vaguest reminders of the attacks. Songs as random as Alanis Morissette's Ironic and John Lennon's Imagine appeared on the Clear Channel memorandum's list of inappropriate songs to play on the radio, not to mention movies and television episodes with somewhat dark themes got postponed or cancelled. It feels like during those months following 9/11, you were expected to be more on your best behavior than anytime since the 50s, and displaying any kind of rebellious attitude put a target on your back for suspicious activity.
I agree with this. Looking back, it seems that era was around the time that goth culture started to disappear. I remember the religious right loved the early post-9/11 era because for a short period political correctness was placed on the backburner and the black-and-white, moral absolute attitude of the 1950s was resurrected.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: 80sfan on 07/05/15 at 9:18 pm
26.
That's how old I am. :o
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: 80sfan on 07/05/15 at 9:26 pm
Actually, hardly. The 90s was the era of the "End of History" and Washington Consensus and the dereg and libertarianism that went along with it. Gay rights was still not supported by a majority, and while interracial marriage was more acceptable than it was in the 80s that's largely due to older people dying off. The death penalty saw its absolute peak in public support in the US with a whopping 80 percent in favor of it in 1994. Fascist and right-wing parties started to make a comeback in Europe and the anti-government movement really started kicking into gear.
I don't buy the idea that the 90s was a liberal or left wing time for America. Indeed in the whole world it continued (and accelerated) the march towards the Right, especially economically.
Can you explain this? What does the 'end of history' mean?
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 07/05/15 at 10:03 pm
Funny. Some people found the Simpsons vulgar in 1990, when it started to blow up in popularity.
'90 was only five years after The Satanic Panic. Let that sink in, for a minute.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 07/05/15 at 10:07 pm
Actually, most of the really controversial media started in 1992. Musically, that year saw the release of Body Count's notorious Cop Killer, Rage Against the Machine's self-titled debut, and eventually Dr. Dre's game-chanigng The Chronic. In the gaming world, 1992 was the first year in which parents truly began to fear for what their kids were exposed to, eventually leading to the creation of the video game rating system. Some of 1992's landmark titles include Wolfenstein 3D (arguably the first mainstream FPS), Mortal Kombat, and Night Trap. In a sense, you can say that a lot of the family values innocence of the 80s really died out in 1992, causing the 90s as a whole to feel much more rebellious.
Aside from Cop Killer, none of the items you mentioned caught on until 1993 or after.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: Emman on 07/08/15 at 8:18 pm
Can you explain this? What does the 'end of history' mean?
Basically "the end of history" was supposed to be an era where western liberal democracy would be the endpoint of our sociopolitical evolution, it would be like a historical "singularity". Francis Fukuyama wrote a book in 1992 called 'The End of History and The Last Man', it reflected the post cold war optimism of the time, Francis Fukuyama projected a long, endless roaring '90s basically.
The end of history was supposed to be an era of growing global peace and free market prosperity, but the idea has come into question following the 911 attacks, The Great Recession, and now the renewed tensions between the US and Russia.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: ArcticFox on 07/16/15 at 3:59 pm
I would divide the eras into 1978-1982, 1983-1987, 1988-1992, 1993-1996, 1997-2002, 2003-2007 and 2008-now (fashion seems to change slower nowadays), btw. Each era has its own style when it comes to clothing, technology and music, different from the era before.
Considering you're from Europe, I'm not surprised at all by your pairings. Here is what was going on in 1982 in Europe!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ZNxyuly00
In the USA that was completely uncool by then!
I'll do one similar to yours but only for America: 1976-1981, 1982-1985, 1986-1990/1991-1993, 1994-1997/1998-2001, 2002-2005, 2006-2010/2011-present (I'm pretty sure 2015 will be the last year of this era). This time, however, I incorporated politics into the mix. The slashes mean some eras are more similar to each other than the ones that immediately preceded or succeeded them.
Subject: Re: Do people overrate how different the 90's were from the 80's?
Written By: TheEarly90sGuy on 07/20/15 at 12:22 am
Considering you're from Europe, I'm not surprised at all by your pairings. Here is what was going on in 1982 in Europe!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68ZNxyuly00
In the USA that was completely uncool by then!
I'll do one similar to yours but only for America: 1976-1981, 1982-1985, 1986-1990/1991-1993, 1994-1997/1998-2001, 2002-2005, 2006-2010/2011-present (I'm pretty sure 2015 will be the last year of this era). This time, however, I incorporated politics into the mix. The slashes mean some eras are more similar to each other than the ones that immediately preceded or succeeded them.
1990,1991 and 1992 are the only years that make up the early '90s.
Here's my proof:
1990
https://nickshell1983.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/ray-fillet.jpg
1991
http://www.tortueman.com/images/tatoo.jpg
1992
http://www.tortueman.com/images/merdude.jpg
1993
https://gsaleheaven.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/scratchmosc1a.jpg
Check for new replies or respond here...
Copyright 1995-2020, by Charles R. Grosvenor Jr.