As I've mentioned in a few other threads, Def Leppard released their album Adrenalize in 1992 and it was the number one selling album the week it came out, not to mention that it has gone platinum three times in the US (I understand that it sold 500,000 copies between Canada and the UK). They also had two top-100 songs in 1992 and one in 1993.

Honestly, I am a bit baffled at how they remained popular at a time when glam metal in general hadn't been popular for a few years. What could explain this? I know that Bon Jovi never completely lost their popularity, but they also changed their style considerably. Other groups changed their style in the attempt to remain relevant with the fall of glam metal and weren't well-received (think Mötley Crüe with Generation Swine). However, Def Leppard played the same style of music with the same image they had always had, and it worked for them, at least until about the end of 1993. I look forward to your comments!

Frankly, I think part of this is that the immediate impact of Grunge has, in hindsight, always been a touch overrated. Not totally overrated mind you, as alt rock did no doubt kill off hair metal in the early 90's, just the idea that seems to be constantly pushed by the music press in retrospectives that the second the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" video debuted on MTV, hairbands just ceased to exist.

A look back at the Billboard year-end singles charts certainly proves otherwise.

For example, in 1992, some people (including myself when I first looked it up) might be quite surprised to discover that many groups typically classified as "hair metal" did quite well that year. "To Be With You" by the extra cheesy Mr. Big finished the year at #12, while Guns N' Roses' "November Rain" came in at #17. In addition to two Def Leppard songs, and yet another song by Mr. Big, the very much forgotten glam group FireHouse also had a top 100 hit, "When I Look Into Your Eyes" at #82. Even more shockingly, the highest ranked alternative song of '92 is actually "Under the Bridge" by the RHCP at #8. "Teen Spirit" doesn't come in until #32.

To me, Hair Metal didn't really die off until 1993, where the drop off is quite noticeable compared to '92. Only two songs make the year-end 100 (one by Def Leppard and the other by Bon Jovi who, as you pointed out, had started to move away from pure glam a bit by this point), and neither finished inside the top 50.

Contrary to peoples opinion, hair metal continued into the early 90s. It didn't die the moment it turned 1990 ("Cherry Pie" anyone?), and it didn't die the moment it "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was released. The change was gradual, as it always was.

It takes time to fade away, especially if you have a fairly good reputation and have talent.

Def Leppard and other rock bands stayed popular because of the fans that enjoyed listening to their music during the 1980's, changed their tune and their style.

As others have said, it's very inaccurate to say that hair metal hadn't been popular for a few years. Looking back at the charts, hair metal had a noted presence in 1990, 1991, and 1992 before the alternative switchover in 1993.

Metallica was arguably the biggest band in the world at that point, and they were pretty much a hair band (thrash metal, but definitely not alternative rock).

glam metal changed to grunge after the 80's were over.

This is a good song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuwa4QmjHcw

Thanks for the explanations guys! Anyway, I was aware that hair metal didn't just die the moment Nirvana appeared. I knew about 'Cherry Pie' by Warrant coming out in 1990 (and I know that glam metal had a considerable chart presence in 1991 with Poison making the top 100 for example) and I knew about 'November Rain' by GnR coming out in 1992. However, if I had looked at the charts in 1992, for example, I wouldn't have realized the glam presence beyond GnR and Def Leppard, as FireHouse and Mr. Big were completely unknown to me so I wouldn't have pinned them down as glam bands (Mr. Big sounds more like the name of an alternative rock band to me). I guess I am wondering, why did the latter two tail-end bands have success that year (and the year before, as my subsequent research has shown) but not the classic bands of the genre? For example, Mötley Crüe had a single in 1991 called "Primal Scream" and it has the same energizing hard-rocking sound that made them famous, but I see that it didn't make the top 100. Then again, did they make the top 100 even at their peak?

I suppose I am wondering, why would people choose to listen to late-coming imitators of the classic glam bands when the classic bands themselves were still making music? I suppose that is my source of surprise.

Here's a list of successful glam metal songs of the early '90s as defined by either peaking within the top 10 of the Billboard Hot 100 or ranking among the Year-End Hot 100. It may be a stretch to call some of these glam metal...A lot of them probably actually fit in the broader category of pop metal, but I still see them listed in glam metal retrospectives and compilations.


Title Artist Peak Year-End
"Love Song" Tesla #10 (Jan '90) 67th (1990)
"I Remember You" Skid Row #6 (Feb '90) 72nd (1990)
"Janie's Got a Gun" Aerosmith #4 (Feb '90) 61st (1990)
"Price of Love" Bad English #5 (Mar '90) 68th (1990)
"Forever" Kiss #8 (Apr '90) 92nd (1990)
"Without You" Mötley Crüe #8 (Apr '90) 96th (1990)
"What It Takes" Aerosmith #9 (May '90) 91st (1990)
"Unskinny Bop" Poison #3 (Sep '90) 32nd (1990)
"Blaze of Glory" Jon Bon Jovi #1 (Sep '90) 10th (1990)
"(Can't Live Without Your) Love and Affection" Nelson #1 (Sep '90) 27th (1990)
"Black Cat" Janet Jackson #1 (Oct '90) 59th (1990)
"Cherry Pie" Warrant #10 (Nov '90)
"(I Need You Now) More Than Words Can Say" Alias #2 (Nov '90)
"Something to Believe In" Poison #4 (Dec '90) 78th (1991)
"High Enough" Damn Yankees #3 (Jan '91) 14th (1991)
"Miles Away" Winger #12 (Jan '91) 97th (1991)
"After the Rain" Nelson #3 (Jan '91) 56th (1991)
"I Saw Red" Warrant #10 (Feb '91) 96th (1991)
"Signs" Tesla #8 (Apr '91) 73rd (1991)
"Silent Lucidity" Queensrÿche #9 (Jun '91) 82nd (1991)
"More Than Words" Extreme #1 (Jun '91) 7th (1991)
"Wind of Change" The Scorpions #4 (Aug '91) 39th (1991)
"Love of Lifetime" FireHouse #5 (Sep '91) 43rd (1991)
"Hole Hearted" Extreme #4 (Oct '91) 46th (1991)
"Don't Cry" Guns N' Roses #10 (Nov '91)
"To Be With You" Mr. Big #1 (Feb '92) 12th (1992)
"Everything About You" Ugly Kid Joe #9 (May '92) 72nd (1992)
"Let's Get Rocked" Def Leppard #15 (May '92) 98th (1992)
"November Rain" Guns N' Roses #3 (Aug '92) 17th (1992)
"When I Look Into Your Eyes" FireHouse #8 (Oct '92) 82nd (1992)
"Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad" Def Leppard #12 (Oct '92) 80th (1992)


Notice the songs that experienced their peak in the month of November did not rank on the Year-End charts. That is because their sales and airplay were split between two chart years so they probably just missed the top 100 for both.

Does anyone know the peak dates for "Miles Away", "Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad", or "Let's Get Rocked"? Billboard's archives only show the top 10 of weekly charts for free. These songs managed to place among the top 100 for the year despite never reaching the top 10 of the weekly charts.

Looks like "Miles Away" peaked in January 1991, "Let's Get Rocked" peaked in May 1992, and "Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad" peaked in October 1992.

Thanks for the explanations guys! Anyway, I was aware that hair metal didn't just die the moment Nirvana appeared. I knew about 'Cherry Pie' by Warrant coming out in 1990 (and I know that glam metal had a considerable chart presence in 1991 with Poison making the top 100 for example) and I knew about 'November Rain' by GnR coming out in 1992. However, if I had looked at the charts in 1992, for example, I wouldn't have realized the glam presence beyond GnR and Def Leppard, as FireHouse and Mr. Big were completely unknown to me so I wouldn't have pinned them down as glam bands (Mr. Big sounds more like the name of an alternative rock band to me). I guess I am wondering, why did the latter two tail-end bands have success that year (and the year before, as my subsequent research has shown) but not the classic bands of the genre? For example, Mötley Crüe had a single in 1991 called "Primal Scream" and it has the same energizing hard-rocking sound that made them famous, but I see that it didn't make the top 100. Then again, did they make the top 100 even at their peak?

I suppose I am wondering, why would people choose to listen to late-coming imitators of the classic glam bands when the classic bands themselves were still making music? I suppose that is my source of surprise.


I think it just comes down to catchiness.

Mr. Big's hits were pretty radio friendly and extremely catchy, so naturally they would have caught on a bit more than most songs.

Aerosmith is another example of an established "glam" band that had a bunch of success in the early '90s. Even all the way up until 1994, their singles still sounded like glam metal to me. But like some other bands, they were kind of able to usurp that label somewhat by having a distinctive style and making songs with big hooks that were still going to be radio friendly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMNgbISmF4I

Looks like "Miles Away" peaked in January 1991, "Let's Get Rocked" peaked in May 1992, and "Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad" peaked in October 1992.


Thanks! What website did you use to find this out?

I think it just comes down to catchiness.

Mr. Big's hits were pretty radio friendly and extremely catchy, so naturally they would have caught on a bit more than most songs.

Aerosmith is another example of an established "glam" band that had a bunch of success in the early '90s. Even all the way up until 1994, their singles still sounded like glam metal to me. But like some other bands, they were kind of able to usurp that label somewhat by having a distinctive style and making songs with big hooks that were still going to be radio friendly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMNgbISmF4I

The Get a Grip era didn't quite sound glam metal to me. There was a sort of different attitude/edge. Plus, the videos were pretty 90's.

I agree with the posters here.

Grunge was just in the right place in the right time.  If anything killed Hair Metal, it was itself.  What came afterwards could have been anything. 

The Get a Grip era didn't quite sound glam metal to me. There was a sort of different attitude/edge. Plus, the videos were pretty 90's.


Agreed. 

Aerosmith literally had a series of hits in the late 80s and the early 90s, and they were still popular all the way to the late 90s.  They were not glam at any way.

I agree with the posters here.

Grunge was just in the right place in the right time.  If anything killed Hair Metal, it was itself.  What came afterwards could have been anything.


Hair Metal would have never survived the 90's.

Agreed. 

Aerosmith literally had a series of hits in the late 80s and the early 90s, and they were still popular all the way to the late 90s.  They were not glam at any way.


Aerosmith was a rock band.

I think hair metal (especially power ballads) were still charting up to early 1993. I'd say that Adrenalize was popular (that was how I first knew about them as a kid, "Let's Get Rocked" was a pretty big hit) because Def Leppard weren't just a hair band, even if they popularized that sound. They were more straight up poppy hard rock/metal and they had a huge fanbase already, as opposed to the cheesier, late period hair bands like Winger and Warrant.

Van Halen and Aerosmith, while they also had the pop oriented party style hard rock that the hair bands did, they were more classic rock imo. Some people would lump them in, but I wouldn't. By 1993-94, Aerosmith's songs were more straight ahead rock or ballads anyway, so it sounded more timeless.

And I also agree that the common idea that every hair band and 80s styled rock song went away five minutes after "Smells Like Teen Spirit" first aired on MTV is overrated and exaggerated.

There are songs from 1990 and 1991 that sound like they came from 1989.

There are songs from 1990 and 1991 that sound like they came from 1989.


Oh absolutely. I'd even go further and say the adult contemporary pop sounded 80s-y even as later as 1995 (i.e. "You Are Not Alone").

Oh absolutely. I'd even go further and say the adult contemporary pop sounded 80s-y even as later as 1995 (i.e. "You Are Not Alone").


It's strange how in the 90s, for adults things remained 80s like until 1995 but for teenagers the 90s feeling started in late 91
In the 00s, the 00s feeling for adults started in late 01 and for teenagers/kids things had somewhat of a 90s feeling until 05.
My early 90s experience was quite 80s in some ways because I heard a lot of the adult contemporary then.

It's strange how in the 90s, for adults things remained 80s like until 1995 but for teenagers the 90s feeling started in late 91
In the 00s, the 00s feeling for adults started in late 01 and for teenagers/kids things had somewhat of a 90s feeling until 05.
My early 90s experience was quite 80s in some ways because I heard a lot of the adult contemporary then.


Shoot that's true, isn't it! Never even thought about that before, but I think (for the 00s) politically and socially of course 9/11 and Iraq really pushed us into another era and made the 90s start seeming awhile ago. But like a 20 year old of 2003 would find that much more noticeable than an 8 year old of 2003 who could've been listening to post-grunge or pop/punk hits. :)

Funny how I had the "adult 90s" experience despite being an older child/very early teen. I mostly got my new music from VH1 or the Hot AC kinda radio stations.

Agreed. 

Aerosmith literally had a series of hits in the late 80s and the early 90s, and they were still popular all the way to the late 90s.  They were not glam at any way.


Incorrect, stuff like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBTOGVb_cQg

and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nqcL0mjMjw

is pretty much glam metal.  What's the significant differences?

Shoot that's true, isn't it! Never even thought about that before, but I think (for the 00s) politically and socially of course 9/11 and Iraq really pushed us into another era and made the 90s start seeming awhile ago. But like a 20 year old of 2003 would find that much more noticeable than an 8 year old of 2003 who could've been listening to post-grunge or pop/punk hits. :)

Funny how I had the "adult 90s" experience despite being an older child/very early teen. I mostly got my new music from VH1 or the Hot AC kinda radio stations.


I had a lot of the adult 90s experience but in my area the stations were even more over the top 80s up through 1994 then it changed in 1995. I mean over the top 80s as in playing new wave hits from as early as 1982 from bands like Human League. As a teenager in 2003, I found the adults reactions annoying and over the top. I lived life like it was normal but it seemed the adults weren't ready to.

Shoot that's true, isn't it! Never even thought about that before, but I think (for the 00s) politically and socially of course 9/11 and Iraq really pushed us into another era and made the 90s start seeming awhile ago. But like a 20 year old of 2003 would find that much more noticeable than an 8 year old of 2003 who could've been listening to post-grunge or pop/punk hits. :)

Funny how I had the "adult 90s" experience despite being an older child/very early teen. I mostly got my new music from VH1 or the Hot AC kinda radio stations.


This was how early 2003 culture was like for early 00s teens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTvu1Yr3Ohk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHXCyc279Cc
Much more 90s like than what the adults were experiencing
I even recall a post from here in 2003 asking why the teenagers were still acting like it was the 90s.
For high schoolers people still acted like it was the 90s/very early 2000s in the first half of 2003 especially, at least people from class of 05 and below. Class of 04 and class of 05 were infamous for taking 2001 culture through their graduation dates whereas class of 06 and later moved with the times. Any idea why? It was like class of 04 and class of 05 had an isolated type of teen experience.

Incorrect, stuff like this...
is pretty much glam metal.  What's the significant differences?


Oh yeah, I sort of agree songs like Angel and Livin' On The Edge are VERY hair metal power ballad influenced.  :D The 1987-1994 Aerosmith could've been a hair band on songs like those, but even their album tracks from back then had traces of their bluesier classic rock roots too.

This was how early 2003 culture was like for early 00s teens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTvu1Yr3Ohk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHXCyc279Cc
Much more 90s like than what the adults were experiencing
I even recall a post from here in 2003 asking why the teenagers were still acting like it was the 90s.
For high schoolers people still acted like it was the 90s/very early 2000s in the first half of 2003 especially, at least people from class of 05 and below. Class of 04 and class of 05 were infamous for taking 2001 culture through their graduation dates whereas class of 06 and later moved with the times. Any idea why? It was like class of 04 and class of 05 had an isolated type of teen experience.


Oh yeah, I think of that pop/punk stuff like AAR, Jimmy Eat World, Good Charlotte and Bowling For Soup as VERY 2002-2005. Even though some of it was derivative at the time, I really miss it now. That was my favorite kind of mainstream music; that and early Avril scream 2003 to me.

Even though I was never headstrong into teen culture even when I was in middle or high school, I feel like I can still relate to the teen pop culture of the first half of the 00s, even up to 2006 maybe. I wasn't huge into the 9/11 paranoia and fearmongering with Iraq because I'm not a Republican either.  ;D

This was how early 2003 culture was like for early 00s teens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTvu1Yr3Ohk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHXCyc279Cc
Much more 90s like than what the adults were experiencing
I even recall a post from here in 2003 asking why the teenagers were still acting like it was the 90s.
For high schoolers people still acted like it was the 90s/very early 2000s in the first half of 2003 especially, at least people from class of 05 and below. Class of 04 and class of 05 were infamous for taking 2001 culture through their graduation dates whereas class of 06 and later moved with the times. Any idea why? It was like class of 04 and class of 05 had an isolated type of teen experience.


How old are you? Were you born in 1985 or 1986? Because I'm guessing you're part of "The 2000s Generation". I presume you're 28 years old?

Oh yeah, I sort of agree songs like Angel and Livin' On The Edge are VERY hair metal power ballad influenced.  :D The 1987-1994 Aerosmith could've been a hair band on songs like those, but even their album tracks from back then had traces of their bluesier classic rock roots too.


Agreed.  Aerosmith has been doing this type of music before all those hair bands came into the scene.  Their is some hair influence, but honestly I chalked this up with the production in the 80s being much more fuller than in the 70s.  For example, many heavy metal bands in the 70s would not be considered heavy in later years...

BTW, I love Livin On The Edge. 

Didn't hair bands want to move towards an edgier sound?

Didn't hair bands want to move towards an edgier sound?


Well, curiously, the majority of the glam metal songs that made it onto the year-end top 100 during the first years of the 90's were ballads. Does anyone have an idea why this might have been the case?

Well, curiously, the majority of the glam metal songs that made it onto the year-end top 100 during the first years of the 90's were ballads. Does anyone have an idea why this might have been the case?


I've noticed that too about 1990-92 and even 1993 (songs like "To Be With You" by Mr Big), that most hair metal hits were ballads. I think once any genre has been around awhile it starts to go more pop, or softer as it gets super mainstream.

I've noticed that too about 1990-92 and even 1993 (songs like "To Be With You" by Mr Big), that most hair metal hits were ballads. I think once any genre has been around awhile it starts to go more pop, or softer as it gets super mainstream.


That could be. I noticed that out of all the singles that Def Leppard released in 1992 and 1993, 'Let's Get Rocked' was the only non-ballad that made the year end top 100. For example, check out this video that did not make the year end top 100 (released as a single in early 1993). Are there any 90's elements at all in this video? I wonder if this song was popular among rock fans at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATdJlkCOIYk

I've noticed that too about 1990-92 and even 1993 (songs like "To Be With You" by Mr Big), that most hair metal hits were ballads. I think once any genre has been around awhile it starts to go more pop, or softer as it gets super mainstream.



I also think that hair bands wanted a more softer sound. They must've been tired of the hard rock of the 80's.