Everyone knows there was plenty of hair metal in 1990 and 1991, but what about in 1992-2000? It was pretty dead, but it was still around a little bit. Guns and Roses were around through the early '90s. Bon Jovi and Aerosmith, and Metallica (you could argue they're hair metal) all stuck around through the '90s.  Even Creed have some hair metal qualities to them.

Bon Jovi is still relatively popular in the 2000s as well, so I guess the '00s also have Hair Metal.

Even though it seemingly died in 1991 there were still hits well into 1992 and even '93. In fact a Motley Crue based video game came out in 1992 on the Sega Genesis. Bon Jovi still had hits throught the '90s and as Brian said even in the '00s. Guns and Roses were still very popular at the apex of grunge in 1992/'93 as well.

Everyone knows there was plenty of hair metal in 1990 and 1991, but what about in 1992-2000? It was pretty dead, but it was still around a little bit. Guns and Roses were around through the early '90s. Bon Jovi and Aerosmith, and Metallica (you could argue they're hair metal) all stuck around through the '90s.  Even Creed have some hair metal qualities to them.

Yeah, 1990 and the first half of '91 are still very much '80s in that sense. There were some power ballads in '92 though, I remember "To Be With You" by Mr. Big was unescapable. "More Than Words" by Extreme was like a stripped down/AC power ballad, so in a sense that was '90s too.

Bon Jovi sorta shifted their sound with more accoustic/less anthem rock stuff, but I'd still count them. Aside from Aerosmith, there were some of the more "classic" bands that stuck around or had semi hits (The Scorpions, AC/DC, Cheap Trick, etc).

In short, I think it actually did exist more than some people would've ever admitted at the time. The only things that clearly died with 1991 were the copycat/second rate bands like Winger and Warrant.

Sort of like how most people wouldn't admit Grunge is still around, but you have bands like Nickelback having all these hits.

Sort of like how most people wouldn't admit Grunge is still around, but you have bands like Nickelback having all these hits.


yeah grunge is definitely still around in some form, limited but it's out there.

Sort of like how most people wouldn't admit Grunge is still around, but you have bands like Nickelback having all these hits.


True. When looked at from a future perspective, you could say that even though the grunge years themselves were more like late 1991-1996, the grunge influenced years were 1989-2008 or something.

The "hair metal is cool" years were about 1983-mid 1991, but to expand it as much as possible, I'd say their influence was as wide as 1979-2000.

Yeah, 1990 and the first half of '91 are still very much '80s in that sense. There were some power ballads in '92 though, I remember "To Be With You" by Mr. Big was unescapable. "More Than Words" by Extreme was like a stripped down/AC power ballad, so in a sense that was '90s too.

Bon Jovi sorta shifted their sound with more accoustic/less anthem rock stuff, but I'd still count them. Aside from Aerosmith, there were some of the more "classic" bands that stuck around or had semi hits (The Scorpions, AC/DC, Cheap Trick, etc).

In short, I think it actually did exist more than some people would've ever admitted at the time. The only things that clearly died with 1991 were the copycat/second rate bands like Winger and Warrant.



Yeah, I agree that the second and third wave hair metal bands are the main ones that died out in '91/'92. Alot of the originators of the genre(Motley Crue, Whitesnake, etc.) lasted throught the '90s and still made albums although they weren't nearly as popular as they were in the '80s.

Yeah, I agree that the second and third wave hair metal bands are the main ones that died out in '91/'92. Alot of the originators of the genre(Motley Crue, Whitesnake, etc.) lasted throught the '90s and still made albums although they weren't nearly as popular as they were in the '80s.


I agree. I also think Motley have managed to remain semi popular through the years just because they were the most rebellious/heaviest of all the hair metalers. Same with Van Halen (who had some '90s success too) being the groundwork for the second rate guys, lol.

I agree. I also think Motley have managed to remain semi popular through the years just because they were the most rebellious/heaviest of all the hair metalers. Same with Van Halen (who had some '90s success too) being the groundwork for the second rate guys, lol.



Didn't M.C also try to sound a bit more alternative on one of there late '90s releses? The album flopped though :D

Didn't M.C also try to sound a bit more alternative on one of there late '90s releses? The album flopped though :D


I remember that one - Generation Swine. It had a couple okay songs, but they tried way too hard to sound grungy (and grunge, at least in the sense of being cool and popular, had already passed by '97 anyway, lol).

Their Greatest Hits from a year or two later had "Bitter Pill" which I thought was a better 90s-ification of their sound.

GNR and Metallica were not hair metal.

GNR and Metallica were not hair metal.


Guns'n'Roses was most unequivocably hair metal - not so much Metallica. The 90s wasn't totally berefit of Hair metal, as DD has noticed...some could argue Grunge and its offshoots were just an updated form of hair metal (in the fashion, etc, not the showing off or the music).

Guns'n'Roses was most unequivocably hair metal - not so much Metallica. The 90s wasn't totally berefit of Hair metal, as DD has noticed...some could argue Grunge and its offshoots were just an updated form of hair metal (in the fashion, etc, not the showing off or the music).



I agree. In fact Alice in Chains was a glam metal band before being considered a grunge band in the early '90s.

Guns'n'Roses was most unequivocably hair metal - not so much Metallica. The 90s wasn't totally berefit of Hair metal, as DD has noticed...some could argue Grunge and its offshoots were just an updated form of hair metal (in the fashion, etc, not the showing off or the music).
I would like a list of examples as to why you think they are hair metal(besides Axl's hairdo for a few months in late 86/early 87). I think you need to go listen to Appetite for Destruction again and take a trip down memory lane. GNR were in no way, shape, or form hair metal.

I would like a list of examples as to why you think they are hair metal(besides Axl's hairdo for a few months in late 86/early 87). I think you need to go listen to Appetite for Destruction again and take a trip down memory lane. GNR were in no way, shape, or form hair metal.


Let's see...

Long, wild hair, lots of show off riffage, OTT machismo postering, shrieking vocal - hmmm, what part of that ISN'T Hair metal? Guns and Roses were the very definition of Hair Metal, my friend.

Let's see...

Long, wild hair, lots of show off riffage, OTT machismo postering, shrieking vocal - hmmm, what part of that ISN'T Hair metal? Guns and Roses were the very definition of Hair Metal, my friend.


I think it's somewhere right down the middle. GNR had some hair metal tendencies (like the above ;) ), but their attitude was rougher, and their music was heavier/more raw than, say Whitesnake or Bon Jovi. In that sense, they were sort of a quasi grunge band.

Let's see...

Long, wild hair, lots of show off riffage, OTT machismo postering, shrieking vocal - hmmm, what part of that ISN'T Hair metal? Guns and Roses were the very definition of Hair Metal, my friend.
Go listen to AFD, and then listen to any hair metal band's music. There are no similarities.

I agree. In fact Alice in Chains was a glam metal band before being considered a grunge band in the early '90s.

I disagree.I would not call Alice In Chains a glam metal band,they were/are more like a heavy metal band or hard rock.

I think it's somewhere right down the middle. GNR had some hair metal tendencies (like the above ;) ), but their attitude was rougher, and their music was heavier/more raw than, say Whitesnake or Bon Jovi. In that sense, they were sort of a quasi grunge band.

GNR weren't grunge,remember the Cobain vs. Axl Rose thingie?

Sort of like how most people wouldn't admit Grunge is still around, but you have bands like Nickelback having all these hits.

Nickelback may be grunge influenced but they certainly aren't your typical "grunge-band".
Post-grunge suits them better,and most post-grunge is tripe anyway :P

I think it's somewhere right down the middle. GNR had some hair metal tendencies (like the above ;) ), but their attitude was rougher, and their music was heavier/more raw than, say Whitesnake or Bon Jovi. In that sense, they were sort of a quasi grunge band.


I think GNR had a "toughened up" hair metalesque image, but their music was slightly poppified "heavier" metal. They were a big influence on say, Kid Rock's image, and maybe even Eminem, in a weird way.

IMO, grunge per se was equivalent to punk in terms of having had a large, brief following, but an incalculable influence. There were maybe 10 grunge bands (Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana, Green River, Mudhoney, The Melvins, Screaming Trees, Alice in Chains, a couple others) but there have been several hundred at least vaguely post-grunge groups...everything from Nickelback to The Wallflowers to STP to Everclear to Marcy Playground to Alanis Morisette to Pavement is grunge influenced. The emo/hipster rock/'80s revivalist thing was the first musical movement not to sort of take its inspiration from grunge...The equivalence to punk is that there were a small number of punk bands for a brief period, but the genre spawned new wave and post-punk, which is probably the most numerous of all genres since 1980 in terms of successful groups, with a ton of one hit wonders.

Hmm...yeah, hair metal was still around in the '90s. You still saw more people with the actual hair metal styles, for instance, and it was very much so in the "pop cultural memory" as something fairly recent, even up to 1998. In 1998, hair metal was sort of equivalent to the Ricky Martin stuff from 1999 now...like it was fairly widely disparaged, but not old enough to be revived, at all. It'll probably only start a revival in 2007 or later this year.

I think GNR had a "toughened up" hair metalesque image, but their music was slightly poppified "heavier" metal. They were a big influence on say, Kid Rock's image, and maybe even Eminem, in a weird way.

IMO, grunge per se was equivalent to punk in terms of having had a large, brief following, but an incalculable influence. There were maybe 10 grunge bands (Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana, Green River, Mudhoney, The Melvins, Screaming Trees, Alice in Chains, a couple others) but there have been several hundred at least vaguely post-grunge groups...everything from Nickelback to The Wallflowers to STP to Everclear to Marcy Playground to Alanis Morisette to Pavement is grunge influenced. The emo/hipster rock/'80s revivalist thing was the first musical movement not to sort of take its inspiration from grunge...The equivalence to punk is that there were a small number of punk bands for a brief period, but the genre spawned new wave and post-punk, which is probably the most numerous of all genres since 1980 in terms of successful groups, with a ton of one hit wonders.

Hmm...yeah, hair metal was still around in the '90s. You still saw more people with the actual hair metal styles, for instance, and it was very much so in the "pop cultural memory" as something fairly recent, even up to 1998. In 1998, hair metal was sort of equivalent to the Ricky Martin stuff from 1999 now...like it was fairly widely disparaged, but not old enough to be revived, at all. It'll probably only start a revival in 2007 or later this year.


How did G'n'R 'toughen up' the Metal image? Like most metal bands, they were more image and style than substance. Even Van Halen were a more authentic metal band than them, along with the likes of Iron Maiden, Judas Priest.etc., which weren't really Hair metallers per se.

I disagree.I would not call Alice In Chains a glam metal band,they were/are more like a heavy metal band or hard rock.



Yeah, there later stuff is defidently grunge influenced, but what I was talking about was, was that when AiC first fromed in the late '80s they were a glam metal band before they changed there name and style in the early '90s. Believe it or not they even used to dress in drag :D

How did G'n'R 'toughen up' the Metal image? Like most metal bands, they were more image and style than substance. Even Van Halen were a more authentic metal band than them, along with the likes of Iron Maiden, Judas Priest.etc., which weren't really Hair metallers per se.

Their lyrics and sound were more "tough" than Def Leppard and Bon Jovi - they had more of a streetwise/dangerous/rebellious vibe to their music, as opposed to the more "fun and party" feel of, say Bon Jovi. It was because of this that they (sorta) survived into the '90s. I think Axl's and everyone else's drug problems (from what I know, and what I recall in Behind the Music) were what stopped them more than the 90s itself. Had they stayed together and put out albums more like the Use Your Illusion's, they probably would've been successful in the latter '90s.

Van Halen were like a classic rock/pop rock/hair metal band, kinda all rolled into one. They had the appeal of a metal band, but weren't exclusively metal either (even if their David Lee Roth era was almost all upbeat hard rock)

Their lyrics and sound were more "tough" than Def Leppard and Bon Jovi - they had more of a streetwise/dangerous/rebellious vibe to their music, as opposed to the more "fun and party" feel of, say Bon Jovi. It was because of this that they (sorta) survived into the '90s. I think Axl's and everyone else's drug problems (from what I know, and what I recall in Behind the Music) were what stopped them more than the 90s itself. Had they stayed together and put out albums more like the Use Your Illusion's, they probably would've been successful in the latter '90s.

Van Halen were like a classic rock/pop rock/hair metal band, kinda all rolled into one. They had the appeal of a metal band, but weren't exclusively metal either (even if their David Lee Roth era was almost all upbeat hard rock)



Yeah, I'd still consider G'n'R to be hair metal, but there sound is defidently alot less poppy than some of the other popular metal bands at that time.

Their lyrics and sound were more "tough" than Def Leppard and Bon Jovi - they had more of a streetwise/dangerous/rebellious vibe to their music, as opposed to the more "fun and party" feel of, say Bon Jovi. It was because of this that they (sorta) survived into the '90s. I think Axl's and everyone else's drug problems (from what I know, and what I recall in Behind the Music) were what stopped them more than the 90s itself. Had they stayed together and put out albums more like the Use Your Illusion's, they probably would've been successful in the latter '90s.

Van Halen were like a classic rock/pop rock/hair metal band, kinda all rolled into one. They had the appeal of a metal band, but weren't exclusively metal either (even if their David Lee Roth era was almost all upbeat hard rock)


The essence of peak '80s hard rock, like Van Halen or Survivor, was combining a tough but not "streetwise" image with music that had hard rock influence but certainly wasn't raw. That also includes most hair metal. GNR were a "grittier" (at least comparatively) take on rock music. Some of this is comparative, remember...people were used to Bon Jovi and Whitesnake. Even up to 1992 or 1993, they had fair success, and I agree they could've even gone into the early '00s without the issues involving the band.

im not gonna debate who was hair metal. i think from around 90-92 metal/hair metal was still pretty big. metallica and guns n roses were huge at this point. skid row was the first ever metal band to debut at #1 on the billboard charts with slave to the grind in 92. alot of the fringe metal bands were still doing pretty good but after 92 is where alot of the bands started to change there sound to accomodate a more 90s grunge/alternative approach(priest, metallica, motley crue, megadeth all changed there sound and image after they realised metal was no longer what it was just 4 or 5 years ago). people think that only bands like poison and warrant sufffered throughout the 90s but so did all types of other metal as well, it was not a good decade for this form of music and its fans, grunge completely took over at this point.

im not gonna debate who was hair metal. i think from around 90-92 metal/hair metal was still pretty big. metallica and guns n roses were huge at this point. skid row was the first ever metal band to debut at #1 on the billboard charts with slave to the grind in 92. alot of the fringe metal bands were still doing pretty good but after 92 is where alot of the bands started to change there sound to accomodate a more 90s grunge/alternative approach(priest, metallica, motley crue, megadeth all changed there sound and image after they realised metal was no longer what it was just 4 or 5 years ago). people think that only bands like poison and warrant sufffered throughout the 90s but so did all types of other metal as well, it was not a good decade for this form of music and its fans, grunge completely took over at this point.


Yeah, Warrant and Winger tried to "go grunge" in 1993 too, which completely failed. Probably because they were the newer hair metal bands, so it made it look like they were bandwagon jumpers. Some of the more veteran hair bands like Bon Jovi, managed to change their sound more successfully.

From personal memory, I'd say mid-1992 or so is when the hair metal image was almost totally out. I used to watch VH1 all the time back then, and that summer I distinctly remember thinking things were "changing" (I honestly didn't pay that much attention to Nirvana, even though I knew about them and liked it a little).

Yeah, Warrant and Winger tried to "go grunge" in 1993 too, which completely failed. Probably because they were the newer hair metal bands, so it made it look like they were bandwagon jumpers. Some of the more veteran hair bands like Bon Jovi, managed to change their sound more successfully.

From personal memory, I'd say mid-1992 or so is when the hair metal image was almost totally out. I used to watch VH1 all the time back then, and that summer I distinctly remember thinking things were "changing" (I honestly didn't pay that much attention to Nirvana, even though I knew about them and liked it a little).



ya i agree metal died out big time around mid 92. the fringe metaller's like the warrant's and winger's changed there sound but they failed cause there audience was not neccessarily that big to begin with while metallica, priest, crue, bon jovi were able to still go on because they had a big fanbase who was willing to buy the music no matter how poor it was. the 80s were much better as far rock/metal music was concerned, you had a bit of everything and you could find anything that suited your taste while in the 90s it was all grunge and alternative being pushed down our throats.

I would like a list of examples as to why you think they are hair metal(besides Axl's hairdo for a few months in late 86/early 87). I think you need to go listen to Appetite for Destruction again and take a trip down memory lane. GNR were in no way, shape, or form hair metal.

God I HATE the phrase 'Hair metal', however...... Oh yes they were, absolutely no question of it. As a huge, huge fan of Glam metal who lived through those years they were most definatly, 100% in that catagory. It had it's own 'sub groups' within the genre, for example Bon Jovi,Warrant etc were the bubblegum pop rock,while Guns and Roses were the grittier/heavier end of the glam metal spectrum but they are absolutely of that genre of music. You are the one who needs to go away and re-listen to some music from that time but try things like Faster Pussycat, Vain, Rock City Angels or La Guns then you will see *exactly* where Guns and Roses fitted in to the Glam Metal genre. 

Back on subject Metal' has always been there in it's various forms, it goes underground for a while, becomes sudenly huge and then goes underground again.

God I HATE the phrase 'Hair metal', however...... Oh yes they were, absolutely no question of it. As a huge, huge fan of Glam metal who lived through those years they were most definatly, 100% in that catagory. It had it's own 'sub groups' within the genre, for example Bon Jovi,Warrant etc were the bubblegum pop rock,while Guns and Roses were the grittier/heavier end of the glam metal spectrum but they are absolutely of that genre of music. You are the one who needs to go away and re-listen to some music from that time but try things like Faster Pussycat, Vain, Rock City Angels or La Guns then you will see *exactly* where Guns and Roses fitted in to the Glam Metal genre. 
Here's some GNR albums for you to go listen to:

Appetite for Destruction
Lies
Use Your Illusion I
Use Your Illusion II

After listening to those albums, and watching videos of the singles, go listen to any album from that era(including bands you listed). There are no comparisons. Anyone who claims GNR to be hair metal has clearly never listened to their albums, and is just going by what they have heard other people who never listened to them try and pidgeonhole them into that category.

If you are only into downloading, and have no interest in buying albums, I will recommend a variety of material from the albums I mentioned:

It's So Easy
Out Ta Get Me
Nightrain
You're Crazy(Acoustic version from Lies)
Patience
Civil War
Double Talkin Jive
The Garden
November Rain
Estranged
Coma
Back off Bitch



If you still consider them hair metal after hearing that sample of their discography, then you are clinically deaf.

I think GNR had a "toughened up" hair metalesque image, but their music was slightly poppified "heavier" metal. They were a big influence on say, Kid Rock's image, and maybe even Eminem, in a weird way.

IMO, grunge per se was equivalent to punk in terms of having had a large, brief following, but an incalculable influence. There were maybe 10 grunge bands (Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana, Green River, Mudhoney, The Melvins, Screaming Trees, Alice in Chains, a couple others) but there have been several hundred at least vaguely post-grunge groups...everything from Nickelback to The Wallflowers to STP to Everclear to Marcy Playground to Alanis Morisette to Pavement is grunge influenced. The emo/hipster rock/'80s revivalist thing was the first musical movement not to sort of take its inspiration from grunge...The equivalence to punk is that there were a small number of punk bands for a brief period, but the genre spawned new wave and post-punk, which is probably the most numerous of all genres since 1980 in terms of successful groups, with a ton of one hit wonders.


As far as hair metal playing a part in Kid Rock's image I could agree you with there and Limp Bizkit definately. Eminem-he took more from Marylin Mansons image in terms of having a shock value image if you will in what he said about people in his songs.

No STP is not post grunge they were more hard rock influenced in my opinion(on their first album anyway.) STP's 3rd album "Tiny Music from a Vatican Gift Shop" was not a grunge record to the least(at least the singles released to radio didn;t seem the least bit grunge.). Everclear was never grunge or post grunge they can classified as punk/ska. Wallflowers no way they are post grunge I say they are more pop-rock. Marcy Playground-they're more pop-rock than post grunge. I think bands  like Creed, Nickleback, and Days of The New are definately post grunge. A band like "Godsmack" straddles the line between post grunge, metal, and even nu-metal a little bit. Even a band like "Staind" they straddle the line between post grunge and nu-metal.

EMO is not grunge influenced. In my opinion the EMO genre combines 2 90's genre's(pop-punk like Green Day) and late 90's Teen-pop ike Britney Sprears which made the EMO sound. Remember 90's grunge(92-96) is a totally different sound than 90's pop-punk(1994-1997) in my opinion anyway.

Here's some GNR albums for you to go listen to:

Appetite for Destruction
Lies
Use Your Illusion I
Use Your Illusion II

After listening to those albums, and watching videos of the singles, go listen to any album from that era(including bands you listed). There are no comparisons. Anyone who claims GNR to be hair metal has clearly never listened to their albums, and is just going by what they have heard other people who never listened to them try and pidgeonhole them into that category.

If you are only into downloading, and have no interest in buying albums, I will recommend a variety of material from the albums I mentioned:

It's So Easy
Out Ta Get Me
Nightrain
You're Crazy(Acoustic version from Lies)
Patience
Civil War
Double Talkin Jive
The Garden
November Rain
Estranged
Coma
Back off Bitch



If you still consider them hair metal after hearing that sample of their discography, then you are clinically deaf.
As I said very clearly in my post, I was, and still am a huge Glam metal fan. I don't need to go away and download these albums I already own them! As I said they were the grittier end of Glam metal but 'Appetite' is absolutely 100% of that genre, because the Glam Metal title covered a wide spectrum of the rock music that was around at the time.ie; late 80's early 90's. Jesus when I saw Guns and Roses live it was supported by the Quireboys and Fatser Pussycat how more glam do you want to get?? Besides I was talking about when they first came onto the scene, by the time Lies came out they were already evolving.