Does anyone feel like there was a brief "less urban" period to culture, particularly around 1998, after gangsta rap died and before the new "glam rap" stuff took over? I remember that whole time around 1998-1999, in an extended way to the very early '00s, as being sort of a resurgence of the sort of "suburban teenage/pre-teen" culture of the late '80s, in a more "modern sense." Like Dawson's Creek,, Pokemon, the host of teen movies with Melissa Joan Hart, the whole "goth subculture" and Columbine sensibility, nu metal like Korn, South Park, Magic cards, etc. are part of this new suburban culture prevalent towards the end of the '90s.

Does anyone feel like there was a brief "less urban" period to culture, particularly around 1998, after gangsta rap died and before the new "glam rap" stuff took over? I remember that whole time around 1998-1999, in an extended way to the very early '00s, as being sort of a resurgence of the sort of "suburban teenage/pre-teen" culture of the late '80s, in a more "modern sense." Like Dawson's Creek,, Pokemon, the host of teen movies with Melissa Joan Hart, the whole "goth subculture" and Columbine sensibility, nu metal like Korn, South Park, Magic cards, etc. are part of this new suburban culture prevalent towards the end of the '90s.


From about 1998-2000 it was less urban I would say, basically around that Y2K era, then urban music took over again by mid 2001 or so..

Does anyone feel like there was a brief "less urban" period to culture, particularly around 1998, after gangsta rap died and before the new "glam rap" stuff took over? I remember that whole time around 1998-1999, in an extended way to the very early '00s, as being sort of a resurgence of the sort of "suburban teenage/pre-teen" culture of the late '80s, in a more "modern sense." Like Dawson's Creek,, Pokemon, the host of teen movies with Melissa Joan Hart, the whole "goth subculture" and Columbine sensibility, nu metal like Korn, South Park, Magic cards, etc. are part of this new suburban culture prevalent towards the end of the '90s.


America's social focus has been the suburbs since the 1950s, but of course with the influence of Gangsta rap.etc...

The 90s were a very suburban decade (like the 80s), 1990-94 was the early Gangsta rap, hip-hop, Krips/Bloods 'San Andreas' (though of course the game wasn't made back then ,lol) era, while the late 90s seemed a comparatively 'white suburban' era for want of a better word. The 00s cultural focus is again more urban, I think.

America's social focus has been the suburbs since the 1950s, but of course with the influence of Gangsta rap.etc...

The 90s were a very suburban decade (like the 80s), 1990-94 was the early Gangsta rap, hip-hop, Krips/Bloods 'San Andreas' (though of course the game wasn't made back then ,lol) era, while the late 90s seemed a comparatively 'white suburban' era for want of a better word. The 00s cultural focus is again more urban, I think.


Then and again, the urban music this decade is much more targeted at the white suburban teenager (see: Kanye West.)

Then and again, the urban music this decade is much more targeted at the white suburban teenager (see: Kanye West.)


Cos Kanye's a good businessman  ;)

The White Suburban Teenager will - despite immigrant, fears of declining growth rates - will be the predominant group in most parts of the country (of course exceptions would include South Central L.A. or Detroit), hence the most marketable group.

Then and again, the urban music this decade is much more targeted at the white suburban teenager (see: Kanye West.)


That's very true, the reality is that urban music is so popular this decade because of the white surburban teenagers.

That's very true, the reality is that urban music is so popular this decade because of the white surburban teenagers.


Well duh, of course, they kind of outnumber the 'black teenager' by quite some way, if you haven't noticed  ;)

Hip hop was just as popular in the early 90s within its own niches, it just hadn't sold out to such a degree

That's very true, the reality is that urban music is so popular this decade because of the white surburban teenagers.


Yeah, '90s gangsta rap had its white fans, but the culture was mostly black. Stuff like 50 Cent, Ciara, and Kanye West is just as accessible to white kids. Even as late as 2001 or 2002, there were more "wiggers", it was more of a separate subculture of white hip-hop devotees. Though this is still true to an extent, in my area it was associated with the working-class, semi-urban "tough" white teenagers and still to an extent is, though classic rock was and is also popular with that group.

A comparable period was like 1990. Stuff like M.C. Hammer that was popular with the Saved by the Bell kids, for example. Then, gangsta rap came out and diverted the white fanbase.

Yeah, '90s gangsta rap had its white fans, but the culture was mostly black. Stuff like 50 Cent, Ciara, and Kanye West is just as accessible to white kids. Even as late as 2001 or 2002, there were more "wiggers", it was more of a separate subculture of white hip-hop devotees. Though this is still true to an extent, in my area it was associated with the working-class, semi-urban "tough" white teenagers and still to an extent is, though classic rock was and is also popular with that group.

A comparable period was like 1990. Stuff like M.C. Hammer that was popular with the Saved by the Bell kids, for example. Then, gangsta rap came out and diverted the white fanbase.


The main subjects of 90s hip-hop seemed to be race relations - if not a 'them against us' then a sort of peaceful call for harmony (e.g. Cyprus Hill), and also the subject matter had more relevance to kids growing up in these gritty inner city communities. Songs were about drive-bys, gang warfare, drug use.etc. Whereas today most hip hop is about getting down in the club, and boasting about how much bling you have. lol

The main subjects of 90s hip-hop seemed to be race relations - if not a 'them against us' then a sort of peaceful call for harmony (e.g. Cyprus Hill), and also the subject matter had more relevance to kids growing up in these gritty inner city communities. Songs were about drive-bys, gang warfare, drug use.etc. Whereas today most hip hop is about getting down in the club, and boasting about how much bling you have. lol


Yeah, it's sort of a soundtrack to life for white teen parties...

The main subjects of 90s hip-hop seemed to be race relations - if not a 'them against us' then a sort of peaceful call for harmony (e.g. Cyprus Hill), and also the subject matter had more relevance to kids growing up in these gritty inner city communities. Songs were about drive-bys, gang warfare, drug use.etc. Whereas today most hip hop is about getting down in the club, and boasting about how much bling you have. lol


Today's hip-hop songs do focus too much on "booty shaking" "bling", etc. Most of it is all the same. There's some decent hip-hop still left, but hip-hop is nowhere near as good as it once was.

Today's hip-hop songs do focus too much on "booty shaking" "bling", etc. Most of it is all the same. There's some decent hip-hop still left, but hip-hop is nowhere near as good as it once was.


Yeah it's all so phony. Maybe hip-hop need's a Grunge-like shakeup? Whaddaya think?

Yeah it's all so phony. Maybe hip-hop need's a Grunge-like shakeup? Whaddaya think?


Yeah it needs something soon.

Yeah it needs something soon.


Yeah, hip-hop really needs some grunge-y shaking-up. It's mostly crap now.

Yeah, hip-hop really needs some grunge-y shaking-up. It's mostly crap now.


It's sad because I think hip-hop could be really good, but it unfortunately evolved into a lot of crap over the years.

It's sad because I think hip-hop could be really good, but it unfortunately evolved into a lot of crap over the years.


I just hope it's not going to be influenced by Kanye West. He's a full of himself, pretentious glam rapper pretending to be something else.

But, back to the main topic...I think things started to get less urban than the whole gangsta rap, 1995 or 1996ish period when teen pop got really big in 1997.

But, back to the main topic...I think things started to get less urban than the whole gangsta rap, 1995 or 1996ish period when teen pop got really big in 1997.


Yeah for a few years in the late '90s and very early part of this decade it was less somewhat less urban, didn't last too long though.

If you have to put a year onto it the period 1997-98 seemed the 'least' suburban in all respects  ;D

Yeah for a few years in the late '90s and very early part of this decade it was less somewhat less urban, didn't last too long though.


When do you think it ended? When Eminem got really popular, around 2001? I think the Macarena was the beginning of the end of '90s urbanness, in the summer of 1996, and then the Spice Girls. Also, nu metal and post-grunge seem like quite suburban things.

When do you think it ended? When Eminem got really popular, around 2001? I think the Macarena was the beginning of the end of '90s urbanness, in the summer of 1996, and then the Spice Girls. Also, nu metal and post-grunge seem like quite suburban things.


The end was in mid 2001 or so.

When do you think it ended? When Eminem got really popular, around 2001? I think the Macarena was the beginning of the end of '90s urbanness, in the summer of 1996, and then the Spice Girls. Also, nu metal and post-grunge seem like quite suburban things.


Of course we might be talking absolute sheesh  ;D, as this is just going by pretty vague memories, and a vague 'feeling'...

Of course we might be talking absolute sheesh  ;D, as this is just going by pretty vague memories, and a vague 'feeling'...


What's with all the smilies tonight?

What's with all the smilies tonight?


That's Mac for you  ;D

That's Mac for you  ;D


;D

What's with all the smilies tonight?


  :):):)  :)    :)        :)    JUST SO      :)          :)          :) :)            :)  :)          :)  :)          :)        :)
    :)          :) :)      :):)                      :)          :)        :)      :)        :)      :)        :)    :)        :)      :)
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    :)        :)    :):)      :)                  :)          :)      :)        :)        :)                :)                  :)
  :):):)      :)      :)        :)                  :)          :)      :)        :)        :)                :)                  :)

(Don't I desert a karma point for all the work I put into that!  ;))

  :):):)  :)    :)        :)    JUST SO      :)          :)          :) :)            :)  :)          :)  :)          :)        :)
    :)          :) :)      :):)                      :)          :)        :)      :)        :)      :)        :)    :)        :)      :)
    :)          :)  :)    :)  :)                    :) :) :) :) :)      :)        :)        :)      :)      :)      :)          :)  :)
    :)        :)    :)  :)    :)                    :)          :)      :) :) :) :)        :) :) :)          :) :) :)              :)
    :)        :)    :):)      :)                  :)          :)      :)        :)        :)                :)                  :)
  :):):)      :)      :)        :)                  :)          :)      :)        :)        :)                :)                  :)

(Don't I desert a karma point for all the work I put into that!  ;))


>:( All that effort and it turned out all wrong...

>:( All that effort and it turned out all wrong...


Ok I gave you one, lol.

Ok I gave you one, lol.


I just karma'ed you as well. Now you have a nice round 50!

I just karma'ed you as well. Now you have a nice round 50!


8)

I'm nearly at 100  :)

Bump (back to original topic)...

What do people think the reasons were for this change, like in terms of the way people were thinking? Part of it was definitely the prosperous economy and the number of prosperous teenagers and kids, Gen Y being the "echo boom", and the break in rap culture.

Bump (back to original topic)...

What do people think the reasons were for this change, like in terms of the way people were thinking? Part of it was definitely the prosperous economy and the number of prosperous teenagers and kids, Gen Y being the "echo boom", and the break in rap culture.


Part of it had to do with the lack of crime.

Part of it had to do with the lack of crime.


Also, people could buy their kids alot of stuff at that point. It's different than that 1990 "first suburban" period, because then there was crime in the cities, so that's why people were staying out.

Also, people could buy their kids alot of stuff at that point. It's different than that 1990 "first suburban" period, because then there was crime in the cities, so that's why people were staying out.


Would you say the inner-city decline is why the '80s and '90s were so suburban?

Would you say the inner-city decline is why the '80s and '90s were so suburban?


Probably. Though, really, the suburban period started in the '50s or '60s, it got really epidemic in the '80s as even middle-class inner city communities devolved.

Probably. Though, really, the suburban period started in the '50s or '60s, it got really epidemic in the '80s as even middle-class inner city communities devolved.


The '00s is a step back to urbaness.

The '00s is a step back to urbaness.


I think the first signs of that happening were in the '80s with the yuppies, but the '00s are seeing more urban families, albeit rich ones. I think that'll all change when the real estate market crashes in the next year or so and crime comes roaring back.

Probably. Though, really, the suburban period started in the '50s or '60s, it got really epidemic in the '80s as even middle-class inner city communities devolved.


Yes, the decline of inner cities began in the 50s with the beginning of the automobile-driven suburban sprawl in most developed countries. The inner city areas reached a real low in the late 70s/early 80s - before experiencing a resurgence with gentrification.etc from the early to mid-90s.

I think the first signs of that happening were in the '80s with the yuppies, but the '00s are seeing more urban families, albeit rich ones. I think that'll all change when the real estate market crashes in the next year or so and crime comes roaring back.


Do you think higher crime rates actually make suburbia more appealing and popular? From what I've gathered, this was the perspective in the '80s - inner cities had gangs, shootings, drug dealers, prostitutes, ghettoes and slums and were a place to be avoided at all costs. Sure, it's an exaggeration, but watch almost any John Hughes or Hughes-like movie, and it'll depict downtown Chicago as a freakin' battlefield (Adventures in Babysitting comes to mind ;) ).

New York City seems to have gone this route (I'm not from there, so I can't say personally, but many would say Giuliani cleaned it up really well, so 1985 NYC would be actually more crime ridden than 1995 NYC).


If crime does go up noticeably, do you think that'll lead to another suburban increase? Right now, I think inner cities have that "Starbucks/small shop" appeal because crime is (comparitively) lower than, say 20 years ago.

As for the original question though, I agree with you.

Not just "urbania" (is that even a word? LOL) on the decline, but it seems rap was definitely less popular circa 1998 too. It was more R&Bish stuff like R. Kelly and Brian McKnight that was appealing.

By then, most people seemed to know rap was here to stay, but I remember talking about it in, I believe the Summer of '98 with a few guys at school where I said I thought it had passed its peak. For instance, 1995 and most of '96 had a "dark" urban feel to them, but late 1996-mid '99 or so was more "happy/suburban kid-esque". Probably the Boy Bands helped make this the case.

Do you think Tupac and Biggie Smalls' murders had anything to do with its temporary decline? Perhaps it took something new (i.e. Eminem, nu metal, especially in the second half of '99) to shake it back up again? Heck, maybe that was what made nu metal popular in the first place!

As for the original question though, I agree with you.

Not just "urbania" (is that even a word? LOL) on the decline, but it seems rap was definitely less popular circa 1998 too. It was more R&Bish stuff like R. Kelly and Brian McKnight that was appealing.

By then, most people seemed to know rap was here to stay, but I remember talking about it in, I believe the Summer of '98 with a few guys at school where I said I thought it had passed its peak. For instance, 1995 and most of '96 had a "dark" urban feel to them, but late 1996-mid '99 or so was more "happy/suburban kid-esque". Probably the Boy Bands helped make this the case.

Do you think Tupac and Biggie Smalls' murders had anything to do with its temporary decline? Perhaps it took something new (i.e. Eminem, nu metal, especially in the second half of '99) to shake it back up again? Heck, maybe that was what made nu metal popular in the first place!


I think "Tha Crossroads" was one of the last big urban hits in the '90s. After that things in the "Unbreak My Heart" genre of R&B seemed to dominate the charts, along with A/C pop and teen-pop, and things like country-pop crossover. Gangsta rap really peaked in late 1995 and early 1996, and the murders killed it.

Late 1996 to mid 1999, even up to mid 2000 as I remember, definitely had that "happy suburban air" to it, with all the fads like Pokemon focused on 10-year olds, innocuous teen pop and general pop/alt-pop, dance music, Ricky Martin blonde spiked hairdos, etc. It had a very "bright, happy" feel to it, as opposed to the gaudy oughties. Like everything seemed to be designed to appeal to preteens at that point. The way I see nu metal is as the replacement for grunge, honestly. I think the whole period ended definitively by mid 2001 with more stuff like Eminem rising. Nu metal and the goth/"trenchcoat mafia"-esque subcultures were like the dark side of that whole 1998ish period, nu metal having begun its precipitous rise with Korn's Follow the Leader in fall 1998.

I think "Tha Crossroads" was one of the last big urban hits in the '90s. After that things in the "Unbreak My Heart" genre of R&B seemed to dominate the charts, along with A/C pop and teen-pop, and things like country-pop crossover. Gangsta rap really peaked in late 1995 and early 1996, and the murders killed it.

Late 1996 to mid 1999, even up to mid 2000 as I remember, definitely had that "happy suburban air" to it, with all the fads like Pokemon focused on 10-year olds, innocuous teen pop and general pop/alt-pop, dance music, Ricky Martin blonde spiked hairdos, etc. It had a very "bright, happy" feel to it, as opposed to the gaudy oughties. Like everything seemed to be designed to appeal to preteens at that point. The way I see nu metal is as the replacement for grunge, honestly. I think the whole period ended definitively by mid 2001 with more stuff like Eminem rising. Nu metal and the goth/"trenchcoat mafia"-esque subcultures were like the dark side of that whole 1998ish period, nu metal having begun its precipitous rise with Korn's Follow the Leader in fall 1998.


Yeah, Nu-metal and Korn-esque metal was particularly group among my age group in the period 1998-2001 (1986 in particular), which was sort of a counter-balance to the innocuous teen pop you speak about. Teen-pop and boy bands were the music you loved to hate, but secretly listened in your bedroom when no one was listening. It may be derided so much now, but back alot of people listened to n'sync.etc. Even people you wouldn't expect to.

I have to take a piss.  There is already a thread for that, but this thread was closer

Yeah, Nu-metal and Korn-esque metal was particularly group among my age group in the period 1998-2001 (1986 in particular), which was sort of a counter-balance to the innocuous teen pop you speak about. Teen-pop and boy bands were the music you loved to hate, but secretly listened in your bedroom when no one was listening. It may be derided so much now, but back alot of people listened to n'sync.etc. Even people you wouldn't expect to.


Yeah, alot of people used to listen to that stuff. Actually, in my math class the other day, a bunch of people were talking about how into the Backstreet Boys they were c. 1999-2000 when they were young preteens, and these are like male wrestlers and baseball players.

Yeah, alot of people used to listen to that stuff. Actually, in my math class the other day, a bunch of people were talking about how into the Backstreet Boys they were c. 1999-2000 when they were young preteens, and these are like male wrestlers and baseball players.


At least I've always hated those boy bands with an unquenchable venom! lol

At least I've always hated those boy bands with an unquenchable venom! lol


I used to sort of like some of the Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears songs c. 1999, though. Like I enjoyed them when they were on the radio.

I used to sort of like some of the Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears songs c. 1999, though. Like I enjoyed them when they were on the radio.


I used to like then too, Britney really never had much talent, but Christina is really good.

^ Confessions of ex-teenyboppers...  ;D

'I used to dance to Britney in my pink baby elephant jam-jam's with pals!'