Do you think the 90s music scene as a whole was more 'alternative'/influenced by 'altern/indie rock' than today? I'd argue yes, the general sound was more explorative and creative. I mean, since when has such a classic as 'Paranoid Android' reached U.S. No. 1? So called 'alternative' like Maroon 5 and James Blunt is so unoriginal it's not funny. I swear I've heard the melody of 'Sunday Morning' in another song before. Anyway, I feel the mainstream scene was 'most indie' in the late 90s - about 1997 I'd say.

Without a doubt.  Today EVERYONE is alternative, so it's not even alternative anymore.

James Blunt and Maroon 5 are not alternative.

Yeah, I think it's much more mainstream now. Like "indie" artists like the Killers, My Chemical Romance, and Bright Eyes getting multimillion dollar promotion deals and such. However, alot of people around 1994 or so thought alternative was getting too commercialized with The Smashing Pumpkins, Pearl Jam, even R.E.M, and so Pavement, Guided by Voices, Beck, Liz Phair, and such originated as more of hipster music. When alternative wasn't mainstream at all was pre-1991, pre-Nevermind, or even pre-Green. Stuff like Husker Du, the Smiths, and the Replacements was the original alternative.

Yes it's more mainstream because of the emo stuff being so popular.

I mean, the 90s charts were also alot more diverse than today. Sure, they went through faddish periods like the late 90s boy band/boy and boy-girl pop groups, the 1996 obsession with dance music, brit-pop, but overall you had so many vibrant styles just mixing together. I think the worst part of the 00s for the charts were 2002-2004 when 9 of the top 10 were hip-hop or rap. Not much for variety. Not to bag 'black' music (alot of it is pretty good), but it seemed the black charts had virtually taken over the top 40.

I mean, the 90s charts were also alot more diverse than today. Sure, they went through faddish periods like the late 90s boy band/boy and boy-girl pop groups, the 1996 obsession with dance music, brit-pop, but overall you had so many vibrant styles just mixing together. I think the worst part of the 00s for the charts were 2002-2004 when 9 of the top 10 were hip-hop or rap. Not much for variety. Not to bag 'black' music (alot of it is pretty good), but it seemed the black charts had virtually taken over the top 40.


2002 wasn't that bad in america actually compared to 2003 when hip-hop made real big gains, and 04 when hip-hop/r&b was probably 70-75 % of the hot 100. Slightly less in 2005, and probably even more less in 2006, now I think hip-hop/r&b is down to about 50 % of the hot 100. I like hip-hop, but I also like diversity in the charts.

2002 wasn't that bad in america actually compared to 2003 when hip-hop made real big gains, and 04 when hip-hop/r&b was probably 70-75 % of the hot 100. Slightly less in 2005, and probably even more less in 2006, now I think hip-hop/r&b is down to about 50 % of the hot 100. I like hip-hop, but I also like diversity in the charts.


Yes, rock is re-conquering the charts. Perhaps it's because the novelty of 'urban culture' and wiggerism is wearing off the collective mainstream (read: white teens in suburbia  :D) and the bling bling image is seen as cheesy, because it was so plastified and taken out of its original context. There were so many plastic gangsters walking around with huge gold chains who probably wouldn't know what to do if a 9-year old girl jumped 'em. That's what I suspect anyway. The image (on skinny white kids from the burbs at least) sort of became laughable.

Yes, rock is re-conquering the charts. Perhaps it's because the novelty of 'urban culture' and wiggerism is wearing off the collective mainstream (read: white teens in suburbia  :D) and the bling bling image is seen as cheesy, because it was so plastified and taken out of its original context. There were so many plastic gangsters walking around with huge gold chains who probably wouldn't know what to do if a 9-year old girl jumped 'em. That's what I suspect anyway. The image (on skinny white kids from the burbs at least) sort of became laughable.


Yea it's starting to wear off slowly, but hip-hop here anyway is still dominates top 40 radio though I am seeing more and more songs I would have thought of as top 40 no-nos becomming very big (James Blunt, Daniel Powter, The Fray). I think the transition to something else is beginning, but it's a process and really the new era so to speak won't begin probably until the early 2010s.

Yea it's starting to wear off slowly, but hip-hop here anyway is still dominates top 40 radio though I am seeing more and more songs I would have thought of as top 40 no-nos becomming very big (James Blunt, Daniel Powter, The Fray). I think the transition to something else is beginning, but it's a process and really the new era so to speak won't begin probably until the early 2010s.


Yeah, we're still in a transition period. Hopefully, without such a saturation good hip-hop/dance music will start to improve and become less commercialised (Kanye West is alright, 50-cent is just crap). HOPEFULLY, 'big' artists will value creativity, and try to push themselves artistically not only commercially. The 60s (though alot of 60s top40 was sh*te) proved you could be very commercial and still produce good music.

Yeah, we're still in a transition period. Hopefully, without such a saturation good hip-hop/dance music will start to improve and become less commercialised (Kanye West is alright, 50-cent is just crap). HOPEFULLY, 'big' artists will value creativity, and try to push themselves artistically not only commercially. The 60s (though alot of 60s top40 was sh*te) proved you could be very commercial and still produce good music.


The 1960s were the formative days of modern music.  Most of the psychedelic stuff was crap, and that's coming from a semi-hippie.

People will eventually get tired of crunk and the "dirty south", some crunk is actually alright but by now a lot of it is getting old (like Lil Jon, every one of his songs is the exact same crap) The Ying Yang twins keep putting out the same crap as well. Chamillionaire is cool though. Ciara is also consider crunk, even though she isn't a rapper, she's cool as well. The Pussycat Dolls/ Rihanna dance-pop style now dominates pop music and you have a number of artists coming out with a similiar sound to them.

The 1960s were the formative days of modern music.  Most of the psychedelic stuff was crap, and that's coming from a semi-hippie.


Yes, alot of Pschy-stuff was crap. As alot of New Wave/Folk - in fact alot of music in general is what you'd call 'crap.'

But alot if it was brilliant; Kaleidoscope, Quiksilver Messenger Service, Jefferson Airplane, Love, The Turtles, Elephants Memory - they rank among my favourite bands.

You're a semi-hippie aye? What are your credentials?  ;)

Come on, I thought this thread would turn out like two cats in a Datsun! Discussion people! I command you to discuss this topic!  ;D

As many of you have observed more mainstream stuff has been CLASSIFIED as 'Alternative or even Indie', like James Blunt, Maroon 5, Coldplay than the 90s, so ironically the CLASSIFICATION for 'alternative' has changed and broadened, while less music is true 90s alternative. That's where the paradox lies, IMO.

Yes, rock is re-conquering the charts. Perhaps it's because the novelty of 'urban culture' and wiggerism is wearing off the collective mainstream (read: white teens in suburbia  :D) and the bling bling image is seen as cheesy, because it was so plastified and taken out of its original context. There were so many plastic gangsters walking around with huge gold chains who probably wouldn't know what to do if a 9-year old girl jumped 'em. That's what I suspect anyway. The image (on skinny white kids from the burbs at least) sort of became laughable.


I think the peak of true wiggerism was like 2002, with Eminem peaking. That's when I remember seeing the most of it.

I think the peak of true wiggerism was like 2002, with Eminem peaking. That's when I remember seeing the most of it.


Yes, from an American standpoint. I think when Eminem and Sir Elton did a duet of 'Stan' his credibility among his 'hard-core' supporters took a beating. Ah, it was a publicity stunt anyway, so who really nows. Eminem's career, surprisingly, never really slumped. He was smart enough to pack his bags before no one liked him.

Yes, from an American standpoint. I think when Eminem and Sir Elton did a duet of 'Stan' his credibility among his 'hard-core' supporters took a beating. Ah, it was a publicity stunt anyway, so who really nows. Eminem's career, surprisingly, never really slumped. He was smart enough to pack his bags before no one liked him.


I personally always thought he was a good businessman, that was the center of his popularity. So he faded away, instead of crashing.

James Blunt and Maroon 5 are not alternative.


I was just about to say that. You can't get more pop than those two.

As many of you have observed more mainstream stuff has been CLASSIFIED as 'Alternative or even Indie', like James Blunt, Maroon 5, Coldplay than the 90s, so ironically the CLASSIFICATION for 'alternative' has changed and broadened, while less music is true 90s alternative. That's where the paradox lies, IMO.


James Blunt, Maroon 5, and Coldplay are all usually in the "soft rock" category, definitely not alternative though Coldplay gets alternative airplay.

Alternative is nowhere near as mainstream as it was in the 90's.  Nirvana's Nevermind and Pearl Jam's Ten sold over 10 million copies each  and Pearl Jam's Vs. held the record for most albums sold in one week for several years.  Now, if you mean more commercialized, then yes, it is.  However, it is nowhere near as popular as it was in the 90's.

What we need is for more mainstream artists to be more musically adventurous. We need something to just blow everything else away. We've had many false 'habringers' or 'Saviours of Rock 'n' Roll' as they often call them, some made a dent, but not a big one. E.g. the Strokes, the Scissors Sisters, now the Yeah Yeah Yeah's (notice the NY connection? Aren't New York bands the most hyped of all?). Still seems to be the centre of hip.

Alternative is nowhere near as mainstream as it was in the 90's.  Nirvana's Nevermind and Pearl Jam's Ten sold over 10 million copies each  and Pearl Jam's Vs. held the record for most albums sold in one week for several years.  Now, if you mean more commercialized, then yes, it is.  However, it is nowhere near as popular as it was in the 90's.



I agree. It's not as popular as in the 90's just more commercial.

When Alternative becomes mainstream, maybe people will begin to recognise 'true' alternative music.

Alternative is nowhere near as mainstream as it was in the 90's.  Nirvana's Nevermind and Pearl Jam's Ten sold over 10 million copies each  and Pearl Jam's Vs. held the record for most albums sold in one week for several years.  Now, if you mean more commercialized, then yes, it is.  However, it is nowhere near as popular as it was in the 90's.

well said.  8)

James Blunt and Maroon 5 are not alternative.

True, but they are an alternative to popular hip hip/rap.
Still they can't be categorised as "alternative".