I think it's 94 or 95 where the "Echo Busters" begin. Somebody like that wouldn't remember the pre-digital days and probably might not accurately remember the pre-DVD days. Also, they are going to be coming of age in the 2010s, and are too young to be part of the teenybopper pop craze (not that I was, but I could've been if I had wanted to.)

And what will they call the generation after Generation Z? They can't be stupid enough to think it will be the last one.

And to think my generation started this by insisting that we were 'Generation X'.

I think it's 94 or 95 where the "Echo Busters" begin. Somebody like that wouldn't remember the pre-digital days and probably might not accurately remember the pre-DVD days. Also, they are going to be coming of age in the 2010s, and are too young to be part of the teenybopper pop craze (not that I was, but I could've been if I had wanted to.)



Yeah somebody born in '94 or '95 probably wouln't have really started bying or renting movies until dvd was pretty much in and with the PS2 which was the hot item back then they had a built in dvd player. And yeah since they'll be coming of age in the late '00's-early '10's they probably wont be part of the current music craze.(for which they should consider themselves lucky)

Yeah somebody born in '94 or '95 probably wouln't have really started bying or renting movies until dvd was pretty much in and with the PS2 which was the hot item back then they had a built in dvd player. And yeah since they'll be coming of age in the late '00's-early '10's they probably wont be part of the current music craze.(for which they should consider themselves lucky)


Yeah I'd say so. 

But, 1994-2002 isn't really a fully different gen from Gen Y.  Their parents are a mix of Gen X and boomers, and those up to 1999 can still be called "Millenials".  But
"MySpace/Emo/Ipod/South Park/50 Cent" Gen Y, as opposed to the transitional Echo Busters, which are a mix of Y and Z rather than fully Z, are fully Y and span from 1985 to 1993, but some even earlier.  Some 1994 and '95ers are probably also part of the Ipod generation, maybe even a few '96ers.  It's not uncommon for a 10-year-old to be into today's music, esp if they have an older sibling.  And really 2006 is pretty much the peak of Gen Y culture, I think it's only down for us from here.

True Gen Z I don't think really starts until 1997, or even as late as 2003.  I don't think the 1995-2001/'02 block will be a totally different generation than this one, especially considering the early and mid 2010s will probably still be Y-dominated.

Yeah I'd say so. 

But, 1994-2002 isn't really a fully different gen from Gen Y.  Their parents are a mix of Gen X and boomers, and those up to 1999 can still be called "Millenials".  But
"MySpace/Emo/Ipod/South Park/50 Cent" Gen Y, as opposed to the transitional Echo Busters, which are a mix of Y and Z rather than fully Z, are fully Y and span from 1985 to 1993, but some even earlier.  Some 1994 and '95ers are probably also part of the Ipod generation, maybe even a few '96ers.  It's not uncommon for a 10-year-old to be into today's music, esp if they have an older sibling.  And really 2006 is pretty much the peak of Gen Y culture, I think it's only down for us from here.

True Gen Z I don't think really starts until 1997, or even as late as 2003.   I don't think the 1995-2001/'02 block will be a totally different generation than this one, especially considering the early and mid 2010s will probably still be Y-dominated.



Yeah I agree that '94 and '95 are still too early to be a fully different generation. I mean somebody born in '94 is or soon will be 12 years old and is probably pretty well into the current cultrue.

Yeah I agree that '94 and '95 are still too early to be a fully different generation. I mean somebody born in '94 is or soon will be 12 years old and is probably pretty well into the current cultrue.


I think that even though core late '80s and early '90s members like us will probably be quick to put them in with '00s kids, they're probably more like a younger subset of us.  Basically there's three parts of Y: 1977-1984 (MTV Generation), 1985-1993 (Echo Boomers), and then 1994-1999/'02 (Echo Busters).  The mid-to-late '90s babies are kind of like what 1958-1963/'64 is to the Boomers + the earliest years of Gen X.  You know, someone born in 1964 might not even remember the Moon Landing but they would have watched Scooby-Doo and probably would have gotten into the Beatles later.  Plus, the '70s are also a Boomer decade.

I think that even though core late '80s and early '90s members like us will probably be quick to put them in with '00s kids, they're probably more like a younger subset of us.  Basically there's three parts of Y: 1977-1984 (MTV Generation), 1985-1993 (Echo Boomers), and then 1994-1999/'02 (Echo Busters).  The mid-to-late '90s babies are kind of like what 1958-1963/'64 is to the Boomers + the earliest years of Gen X.  You know, someone born in 1964 might not even remember the Moon Landing but they would have watched Scooby-Doo and probably would have gotten into the Beatles later.   Plus, the '70s are also a Boomer decade.



Yeah my dad was born in '64 and he never really got into the whole grunge thing in '91.(well he was almost 30). So someone born in '94 could be into the Gen Y scene or whatever becomes big in the years to come.

Yeah my dad was born in '64 and he never really got into the whole grunge thing in '91.(well he was almost 30). So someone born in '94 could be into the Gen Y scene or whatever becomes big in the years to come.


I don't think the '90s was completely Gen X.  Actually, it was made up of latter Gen X and the part of Gen Y that's similar to Gen X.  Basically, anyone born from 1976 to 1985 would be prime '90s, but 1965-1974 born people may or may not have been into '90s stuff.  1986-1994 is more the '00s generation; basically if you're between the Olsen Twins and Dakota Fanning in age, you're a child of the '00s.

I just realized I don't share any of those things you listed as Gen Y. Any of them. And yet, I'm peak Gen Y. I think of the 1977-83 group as being the "Simpsons"/"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Sabrina the Teenage Witch" generation. What else could identify them?

I still hold to my belief people born from roughly 1995/1996 to 2005 will be a different group of people. They aren't part of the whole teen culture craze of the late '90s-'00s, and I think they'll probably be less Y than the 77-83 group of people. I think they'll probably feel a sense of disenfranchisement and relating less to current music. I mean, somebody born in 1966 could've been listening to Aerosmith and Pink Floyd in 1976, but they're still Gen X, probably. I think they'll be more akin to their parents.  My parents were both basically peak boomers, born in 1955. My mom was a Beatlemaniac, the Kennedy assassination was her first memory of world affairs, and she graduated high school in 1973, during Watergate, and discoed in grad school in the late '70s. The time from the mid-60s to the late-70s was basically boomers. She was never a big fan of her part of boomer culture ('70s culture-Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Aerosmith, Captain and Tenille, Norman Lear sitcoms, disco), but was more of a '60s person, though she was too young to be considered a real child of the '60s. I feel more akin to that-I'm not a big '90s person but I'd still prefer it over this decade.

I just realized I don't share any of those things you listed as Gen Y. Any of them. And yet, I'm peak Gen Y. I think of the 1977-83 group as being the "Simpsons"/"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Sabrina the Teenage Witch" generation. What else could identify them?

I still hold to my belief people born from roughly 1995/1996 to 2005 will be a different group of people. They aren't part of the whole teen culture craze of the late '90s-'00s, and I think they'll probably be less Y than the 77-83 group of people. I think they'll probably feel a sense of disenfranchisement and relating less to current music. I mean, somebody born in 1966 could've been listening to Aerosmith and Pink Floyd in 1976, but they're still Gen X, probably. I think they'll be more akin to their parents.  My parents were both basically peak boomers, born in 1955. My mom was a Beatlemaniac, the Kennedy assassination was her first memory of world affairs, and she graduated high school in 1973, during Watergate, and discoed in grad school in the late '70s. The time from the mid-60s to the late-70s was basically boomers. She was never a big fan of her part of boomer culture ('70s culture-Pink Floyd, David Bowie, Aerosmith, Captain and Tenille, Norman Lear sitcoms, disco), but was more of a '60s person, though she was too young to be considered a real child of the '60s. I feel more akin to that-I'm not a big '90s person but I'd still prefer it over this decade.


So you think the 1977-1993 demographic is Gen Y, and possibly up to 1994 or '05?

That makes some sense, but I take the "moderate" view of 1981-1996.  Do you really think 1995ers are "Gen Fat"? 

I think someone born in '94/'95 could very well be into today's music scene but once you get up to 1996/'97+ that becomes a new generation sense someone that's 9 years old may not quite be into music yet but by the beginning of the 2010's they probably will be.

I think someone born in '94/'95 could very well be into today's music scene but once you get up to 1996/'97+ that becomes a new generation sense someone that's 9 years old may not quite be into music yet but by the beginning of the 2010's they probably will be.


Agreed.

Again, 1997 is the magic year.  I do think that 1994 and 1995 kids are more like '96 and '97ers than like late '80s or early '90s kids, but I think 1996 is last year in the Echo Bush that's on the "Y side", if you know what I mean. 

I think the early-to-mid 2010s will be a mix of Y and early/border Z, just like the early/mid '90s were a Gen X/near X/front line Y time period.  The late 2010s will be beyond "my time" completely.

I'll be 23 in 2010 so by the time the '10's culture really gets started my time will pretty much be up(i can see those kids looking at me listning to my Audioslave cd's and saying "what a loser." ;D) But yeah i was born in '87 so I cant really see myself having much in common with a kid born 10 years after me(if he watches nick now I really have nothing to say to him ;D).

I think they're probably closer to Gen Z than people born in 1990-there's probably a greater difference between people born in 1995-1990 than 1990-1985. I think you could draw the mid-90s as a period between the two. Like I think people born in the early '60s are probably, for the most part, closer to people born in the late 50s than the mid-60s. I'm sort of out on the jury between people born in 1977-1983. They're not really "50 Cent/MySpace/Teen Pop/iPod/Emo/Reality TV/9-11" Gen Y, but they're not "MTV/Madonna, Prince, and Michael Jackson/Grunge and Kurt/Challenger Explosion" Gen X either. And I don't really think people born in the mid-90s will have that much in common with me.

Actually, I hope I don't sound anal here, but DVD didn't really supplant VHS until about 2002 or even '03.  The very early '00s were still VHS dominated, but DVD was certainly hot then.


I can attest to this, having worked in BB Video for a few years. I remember hearing about them in '97, but only as a totally high tech thing. When I started there in '99 they were just coming "hot" (we had a few, but not that many). I would say '02 is when they matched VHS.


Anyway, I think generation "Y" probably begins in about 1982, although '81 could count too. I'm born that year, so I've never quite known what to call myself (I actually graduated in 2000 with the "typical" '82ers. Maybe I could occupy both years). ;D

Even though my personality is a few years younger than my biological age, I feel older pop culturally. I have many more things in common with someone born in 1976 or so. Even the Brat Packers born 1968-71ish are very "in my grasp" in that their teenage experience has always been easy for me to understand. Maybe since I was already immersed in pop culture and the world in general by 1988 or so.

I would say to be a "Y" you'd have to remember the '90s just a little bit. A Generation Z would be completely 2000's. So, I'd put it at 1996. Someone born that year could remember snippets from '99 (the way I have some VERY scattered memories of '84 and the first half of '85 -- the "peak" '80s. Nothing clear, but enough to remember the feel).

So:

Generation Y: 1981-96
Generation Z: 1997-2012ish.

It's really hard to tell yet, but so far I think the mid '90s kids are gen y though they are obviously the later end of gen y and pretty much have little/no memory of the '90s. As for the late '90s born kids, it's hard to tell, they're simply too young yet, though I would think y ends around 1997 or so.

I would say to be a "Y" you'd have to remember the '90s just a little bit. A Generation Z would be completely 2000's. So, I'd put it at 1996. Someone born that year could remember snippets from '99 (the way I have some VERY scattered memories of '84 and the first half of '85 -- the "peak" '80s. Nothing clear, but enough to remember the feel).



Yeah someone born '97+ would have a tough time remembering anything from the '90's

I can attest to this, having worked in BB Video for a few years. I remember hearing about them in '97, but only as a totally high tech thing. When I started there in '99 they were just coming "hot" (we had a few, but not that many). I would say '02 is when they matched VHS.


Anyway, I think generation "Y" probably begins in about 1982, although '81 could count too. I'm born that year, so I've never quite known what to call myself (I actually graduated in 2000 with the "typical" '82ers. Maybe I could occupy both years). ;D

Even though my personality is a few years younger than my biological age, I feel older pop culturally. I have many more things in common with someone born in 1976 or so. Even the Brat Packers born 1968-71ish are very "in my grasp" in that their teenage experience has always been easy for me to understand. Maybe since I was already immersed in pop culture and the world in general by 1988 or so.

I would say to be a "Y" you'd have to remember the '90s just a little bit. A Generation Z would be completely 2000's. So, I'd put it at 1996. Someone born that year could remember snippets from '99 (the way I have some VERY scattered memories of '84 and the first half of '85 -- the "peak" '80s. Nothing clear, but enough to remember the feel).

So:

Generation Y: 1981-96
Generation Z: 1997-2012ish.


Again, right on the mark.  I totally agree with 1981-96 and 1997-2012. 

There's basically three "schools" of Y: the "early" theory of 1976/77 to 93/94, the "middle" theory of 1981/82 to 1996/97, and the "late" theory of 1982 to 2003.  The middle theory sounds closest to me, although 1977-1985 is really transitional between X and Y.

I HATE THE "Y" LETTER
DAMNn!
I'M FROM THE "Y" GENERATION

Does anyone else find the "X", "Y", "Z" names kind of dumb?

Does anyone else find the "X", "Y", "Z" names kind of dumb?



Incredibly dumb. Gen X was one thing buy for Y and Z they've just been to lazy to come up with anything new.

Does anyone else find the "X", "Y", "Z" names kind of dumb?


Yes.

I use "Y" and "Z" more as "code names", since neither gen has earned a name yet.  The name does imply that every generation hence is to be a clone of Gen X, which is prespammersite.

Yes.

I use "Y" and "Z" more as "code names", since neither gen has earned a name yet.  The name does imply that every generation hence is to be a clone of Gen X, which is prespammersite.


What will the gen after z be called? Gen A? That's why it's so dumb. I think the millennial name for Y is probably what should be used, not the dumb gen y name.

My school of thought:

The Vietnam Generation of Baby Boomers: 1946-1953

The Watergate Generation of Baby Boomers: 1954-1958

The Baby Busters: 1959-1963

Generation X/The MTV Generation: 1964-1976

Transitional X-Y: 1977-1981

Generation Y (The iPod and Millennial Generation): 1982-1994/1995

Generation Z: 1995/1996-2008

My ideas probably aren't going to change that much...I'm pretty set in my ways about generational stuff, probably too much. I just have a hard time believing Y and the '00s associations could really go after somebody born in 1994, especially if the 2010s are very different. You could put the end date anywhere in the mid-90s, really, I think.

My school of thought:

The Vietnam Generation of Baby Boomers: 1946-1953

The Watergate Generation of Baby Boomers: 1954-1958

The Baby Busters: 1959-1963

Generation X/The MTV Generation: 1964-1976

Transitional X-Y: 1977-1981

Generation Y (The iPod and Millennial Generation): 1982-1994/1995

Generation Z: 1995/1996-2008

My ideas probably aren't going to change that much...I'm pretty set in my ways about generational stuff, probably too much. I just have a hard time believing Y and the '00s associations could really go after somebody born in 1994, especially if the 2010s are very different. You could put the end date anywhere in the mid-90s, really, I think.


Sounds accurate. The mid '90s is very "borderline" to me. Of course I don't have firsthand knowledge of what most 10 year olds (born 1995/96) today think of the '90s, but most of them probably don't remember or barely remember 1999 and view it as "old" (even if they like some things from then without even realizing it). ;)

Of course when I was 10 in 1991/92 I adored 1984, but that was because I already knew it.

Is it weird that I do not understand this thread ;D

Very sketchy:

1900-1919 World War 1 Generation
1920-1945 World War 2 Generation
1945-1954 Post War Generation
1955-1966 Baby Boomers
1967-1969 Early X
1970-1982 X - MTV Generation
1983-1999 Y - Millennial Generation - considered last ever born in last millennium
2000-2015? Z (considered first born in the new millennium)

Very sketchy:

1940-1959 BB
1960-1979 X
1980-1999 Y (Millennial - considered last ever born in last millennium)
2000-2019 Z (considered first born in the new millennium)


I think cultural generations tend to be 15 years, rather than 20.  25 is about a biological generation.

I would say:

Silent: 1929-1939
Silent/Boomer cusp: 1939-1945
Boomer: 1946-1957
Buster: 1958-1967
Xer: 1968-1975
MTVer: 1976-1985
Yer: 1986-1996
Echo Buster: 1997-2002
Zer: 2003-2012

I think cultural generations tend to be 15 years, rather than 20.  25 is about a biological generation.

I would say:

Silent: 1929-1939
Silent/Boomer cusp: 1939-1945
Boomer: 1946-1957
Buster: 1958-1967
Xer: 1968-1975
MTVer: 1976-1985
Yer: 1986-1996
Echo Buster: 1997-2002
Zer: 2003-2012
You quoted my post after I did some serious thinking and edited it.  ;D

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

You quoted my post after I did some serious thinking and edited it.  ;D


;D

The new list seems better.  Although I don't think Gen Y is 1983-2000, I think it's a little earlier and a little shorter.

I think cultural generations tend to be 15 years, rather than 20.  25 is about a biological generation.

I would say:

Silent: 1929-1939
Silent/Boomer cusp: 1939-1945
Boomer: 1946-1957
Buster: 1958-1967
Xer: 1968-1975
MTVer: 1976-1985
Yer: 1986-1996
Echo Buster: 1997-2002
Zer: 2003-2012


That sounds pretty accurate, even if they're cutting some of the "generations" in half(after all, 1946-64 -- what many experts call the true "Baby Boomers" -- is a VERY wide gap).

I definitely agree people born in the first half of the '40s have some Baby Boomer-ness in them. It was this age that actually "created" much of the "60s" culture (Mick Jagger, the Beatles, etc).

I never thought of roughly my age as an "MTV-er" but it makes sense. We're old enough to remember the golden/80s age of MTV, and just hitting my teen years when it was culturized by Beavis & Butthead, etc in the early/mid '90s.

That sounds pretty accurate, even if they're cutting some of the "generations" in half(after all, 1946-64 -- what many experts call the true "Baby Boomers" -- is a VERY wide gap).

I definitely agree people born in the first half of the '40s have some Baby Boomer-ness in them. It was this age that actually "created" much of the "60s" culture (Mick Jagger, the Beatles, etc).

I never thought of roughly my age as an "MTV-er" but it makes sense. We're old enough to remember the golden/80s age of MTV, and just hitting my teen years when it was culturized by Beavis & Butthead, etc in the early/mid '90s.


Yeah, that's more half gens.  If I were to make full gens, it would be:

Silent: 1929-1945
Boomer: 1946-1963 (I think '63 to '64 is big)
Xer: 1964-1980
Yer: 1981-1996
Zer: 1997-2012

Yeah, that's more half gens.  If I were to make full gens, it would be:

Silent: 1929-1945
Boomer: 1946-1963 (I think '63 to '64 is big)
Xer: 1964-1980
Yer: 1981-1996
Zer: 1997-2012


Agree.

A 1964-er would be the oldest person to still clock in more than half of their high school experience in the '80s (assuming they graduated in '82 at age 17 or 18). This is like Spicoli from Fast Times. They've got alot of '70s in them, but really the first to be "80s teens" in the truest sense. They were relatively young for the whole decade (still only 25 in 1989) and probably enjoyed alot of the pre-Grunge pop culture.

Whereas a typical 63-er would graduate in 1981, when that was still fairly "70s-ish".

Agree.

A 1964 person would be the oldest person to still clock in more than half of their high school experience in the '80s (assuming they graduated in '82 at age 17 or 18). This is like Spicoli from Fast Times. They've got alot of '70s in them, but really the first to be "80s teens" in the truest sense. They were relatively young for the whole decade (still only 25 in 1989) and probably enjoyed alot of the pre-Grunge pop culture.



Sorry to hijack the thread, but was "Fast Times" kind of '70ish in a sense?  I haven't seen it, but it seems to me like it looked sort of '70s but the mindset and culture were embryonic '80s.  1981 and 1982 really have that feeling, even 1979 and 1980 do in some respects.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but was "Fast Times" kind of '70ish in a sense?  I haven't seen it, but it seems to me like it looked sort of '70s but the mindset and culture were embryonic '80s.  1981 and 1982 really have that feeling, even 1979 and 1980 do in some respects.


Even though there's alot of "mall culture" in it, I'd definitely say so. Not 1971, but it shares stuff in common with 1978-ish or thereabouts. Alot of the characters smoke weed, which in the "main" 80s was looked at as kind of a burnout/loser thing to do.

The main song from the movie, "Somebody's Baby" from Jackson Browne (great pop/rock song, btw) is alot like this too. It fits with Duran Duran and Journey just as much as it could with Lynyrd Skynard and disco.

Even though there's alot of "mall culture" in it, I'd definitely say so. Not 1971, but it shares stuff in common with 1978-ish or thereabouts. Alot of the characters smoke weed, which in the "main" 80s was looked at as kind of a burnout/loser thing to do.

The main song from the movie, "Somebody's Baby" from Jackson Browne (great pop/rock song, btw) is alot like this too. It fits with Duran Duran and Journey just as much as it could with Lynyrd Skynard and disco.


Would you include 1980 with the '70s?  It does seem of anything more '70s than truly '80s, but not quite to the extent of 1990.  1980 seemed sort of like "dead '70s", whereas 1990 fits right in with 1987, 1988, and 1989.

Would you include 1980 with the '70s?  It does seem of anything more '70s than truly '80s, but not quite to the extent of 1990.  1980 seemed sort of like "dead '70s", whereas 1990 fits right in with 1987, 1988, and 1989.


I see what you're saying. I do get the feeling from all I've seen, that 1980 and to a lesser extent '81, were sort of "let's sit around and wait for the next big thing to come along"-mentality. Even '79 was too (Disco was dying that year, and new wave started taking off).

1982 and '83 were basically '80s but had some signs of the '70s left. Disco was a joke by then, but the decade still had some influence (kind of an "80s-ified 70s" if you know what I mean).

I see what you're saying. I do get the feeling from all I've seen, that 1980 and to a lesser extent '81, were sort of "let's sit around and wait for the next big thing to come along"-mentality. Even '79 was too (Disco was dying that year, and new wave started taking off).

1982 and '83 were basically '80s but had some signs of the '70s left. Disco was a joke by then, but the decade still had some influence (kind of an "80s-ified 70s" if you know what I mean).


I'd agree.  Like the Gap Band and Superfreak, for instance.  Even Journey is "eighties-fied" '70s music, and also Foreigner's later stuff (didn't Foreigner seem like a huge hair metal influence?).

Whereas 1990 seemed to fit with the late '80s better, even if it wasn't cool to talk about the '80s then.  In fact, I think the "It's the '90s now" thing is in a way an '80s thing because although 1986 was dated in 1990, 1982 was dated in 1986, but both years are very '80s.  1991 is transitional, sort of "waiting for the '90s" until they came with Grunge in late 1991 and 1992.

It wasn't until 1992 that liking stuff from three years ago began to be acceptable (as in, in 1995 liking 1992 was perfectly fine).

In fact, if the '80s happened to have occured a year later, their stereotypes would probably be almost exactly the same, if not more accurate.

I'd agree.  Like the Gap Band and Superfreak, for instance.   Even Journey is "eighties-fied" '70s music, and also Foreigner's later stuff (didn't Foreigner seem like a huge hair metal influence?).

Whereas 1990 seemed to fit with the late '80s better, even if it wasn't cool to talk about the '80s then.  In fact, I think the "It's the '90s now" thing is in a way an '80s thing because although 1986 was dated in 1990, 1982 was dated in 1986, but both years are very '80s.  1991 is transitional, sort of "waiting for the '90s" until they came with Grunge in late 1991 and 1992.

It wasn't until 1992 that liking stuff from three years ago began to be acceptable (as in, in 1995 liking 1992 was perfectly fine).

In fact, if the '80s happened to have occured a year later, their stereotypes would probably be almost exactly the same, if not more accurate.


I think Foreigner was like a somewhat more hard rock Journey. Not quite as lyrically limited as hair metal and not quite as heavy, but I can definitely hear similarities. On the rocker side, "Urgent" for example has hair band type lyrics, and "I Wanna Know what Love is" is like an early power ballad.

Anyway, I agree about the rest, too. I get the feeling even as early as 1987, people were kinda waiting for the '90s to come along, and were sick of the '80s even if they were still going on.

If grunge hadn't come along in 1991/92, I think the extent of 80s backlash would've been the 1989-ish "Hey, the 80s were pretty silly, weren't they?" mindset.

Nobody says "Hey it's the 2000s!" or "It's the 21st Century" now. ;D

I think Foreigner was like a somewhat more hard rock Journey. Not quite as lyrically limited as hair metal and not quite as heavy, but I can definitely hear similarities. On the rocker side, "Urgent" for example has hair band type lyrics, and "I Wanna Know what Love is" is like an early power ballad.

Anyway, I agree about the rest, too. I get the feeling even as early as 1987, people were kinda waiting for the '90s to come along, and were sick of the '80s even if they were still going on.

If grunge hadn't come along in 1991/92, I think the extent of 80s backlash would've been the 1989-ish "Hey, the 80s were pretty silly, weren't they?" mindset.

Nobody says "Hey it's the 2000s!" or "It's the 21st Century" now. ;D



I'd agree. Even as early as 1986, new wave was beginning to fall out of favor to hair metal and "alternative rock", whatever the hell that is!  ;D

Based on my experience with the '90s, I think 1987-1990 sort of felt a little "less '80s" than 1981-1986.  1997 was the last year that really felt like the '90s, in 1998 and 1999 the Nineties only existed in the media and in leftover form like they do today.

I wonder if the 21st Century will be truly distinct from the 20th, or just continuing the same trends.  Hmm.

I'd agree. Even as early as 1986, new wave was beginning to fall out of favor to hair metal and "alternative rock", whatever the hell that is!  ;D

Based on my experience with the '90s, I think 1987-1990 sort of felt a little "less '80s" than 1981-1986.  1997 was the last year that really felt like the '90s, in 1998 and 1999 the Nineties only existed in the media and in leftover form like they do today.

I wonder if the 21st Century will be truly distinct from the 20th, or just continuing the same trends.  Hmm.


Yeah, '97 was the last year there were dramatic changes in fashion, music and such. I sort of see everything since then as, there's still popular stuff, but none that really emerge above the others as "THE" thing. You can listen to Third Eye Blind's "Semi charmed Life" with today's Billboard chart. It might seem a little dated, but similar enough that you'll not get laughed at or anything.

Of course '99 was the really big teenpop/Britney Spears/Ricky Martin stuff, but that was in its early stages in 1997 and '98. Much like the "80s" was in 1979-81. Not fully developed but "there".

97-98 was like a "less grungified" 1992-96.

Yeah, '97 was the last year there were dramatic changes in fashion, music and such. I sort of see everything since then as, there's still popular stuff, but none that really emerge above the others as "THE" thing. You can listen to Third Eye Blind's "Semi charmed Life" with today's Billboard chart. It might seem a little dated, but similar enough that you'll not get laughed at or anything.

Of course '99 was the really big teenpop/Britney Spears/Ricky Martin stuff, but that was in its early stages in 1997 and '98. Much like the "80s" was in 1979-81. Not fully developed but "there".

97-98 was like a "less grungified" 1992-96.



Do you think South Park is the reason that culture changed around 1997 and never did again?  Theoretically, they probably could have aired it as far back as 1994 or 1995, but after South Park came on no show could ever really top it in edginess without being cancelled instantly.  It made "Beavis and Butt-head" look like the moniker of Good, for Pete's sake! 

Of course, it could have been pure coincidence, as the Spice Girls began in January of '97.

Even today, 8 1/2 years after it's release people aren't quite over South Park.

Do you think South Park is the reason that culture changed around 1997 and never did again?  Theoretically, they probably could have aired it as far back as 1994 or 1995, but after South Park came on no show could ever really top it in edginess without being cancelled instantly.  It made "Beavis and Butt-head" look like the moniker of Good, for Pete's sake! 

Of course, it could have been pure coincidence, as the Spice Girls began in January of '97.

Even today, 8 1/2 years after it's release people aren't quite over South Park.


Maybe not the sole reason, but it sure played a part.

My first exposure to it actually was the movie, in 1999. I was 17 and thought I couldn't really be shocked anymore, but I was. I wasn't offended (even if it was gross/semi disturbing in places), just surprised that could actually pass the sensors.

There does seem to be less "rebellion for the sake of rebellion" nowadays. In other words, a kid won't try to shock/p_ss off their parents on purpose. If their music/TV/lifestyle has that effect, they're okay with it, but they don't really try to, if that makes sense.

Maybe not the sole reason, but it sure played a part.

My first exposure to it actually was the movie, in 1999. I was 17 and thought I couldn't really be shocked anymore, but I was. I wasn't offended (even if it was gross/semi disturbing in places), just surprised that could actually pass the sensors.

There does seem to be less "rebellion for the sake of rebellion" nowadays. In other words, a kid won't try to shock/p_ss off their parents on purpose. If their music/TV/lifestyle has that effect, they're okay with it, but they don't really try to, if that makes sense.




Agreed.  Maybe it's a good thing that trends are dead, but I sure miss them.

As for "South Park", it might even be one of my favorite shows if there wasn't gross and disturbing stuff on there.  It is hilarious often, but is juvenile and stupid just as often and generally conservative-biased. Most of the time it's really not that bad, but occasionally they'll throw a really disturbing idea or image at you and it will shock you.  It actually makes it more shocking, because if they did it all the time you would get used to it.

I would say about 1997. That would seem reasonable to me, because people born after then won't have any or very little memory of the 1990's, where as people born before then(who are part of gen y) would have memories of the 1990's.  Generation y are the youngest people who can remember the 1990's. We wern't born with the technologies we have now. One thing that is unique to this generation(gen y) is that we are the last generation to ever live in a world where computures wern't household items, where the only phones were home phones(lanldine) and payphones, video games where only pixelated, we didn't have the internet, public schools actually celebrated christmas and put up a christmas tree(no-offence to people of other religions), half-the cartoons weren't anime, the suburban streets ACTUALLY had kids playing in them, Most pop music was much less offencesive and discrete as it is now and kids were actually kids. The list gose on. 

Well, ok, you get the point, the world was very different when we were young. The world view for generation Z, will be heaps different to the veiw of generation Y. It's like two different worlds, generation Z, was born in the information age, and generation Y were/are the last generation to be born in the world just before that. Generation Y is the last generation to appriciate the change in technology over the last 10-12 years. Thats how I'd divide generation Y from Z.

Agreed.  Maybe it's a good thing that trends are dead, but I sure miss them.

As for "South Park", it might even be one of my favorite shows if there wasn't gross and disturbing stuff on there.  It is hilarious often, but is juvenile and stupid just as often and generally conservative-biased. Most of the time it's really not that bad, but occasionally they'll throw a really disturbing idea or image at you and it will shock you.  It actually makes it more shocking, because if they did it all the time you would get used to it.


Yeah. I think I'm more into when they lampoon something going on, either politically or culturally, or make fun of a celebrity. Even if I like the person, I still get a kick out of it.

The "You killed Kenny!" violence and the overblown sex-related humor can get old sometimes, but it's still funny in limited amounts.

I would say about 1997. That would seem reasonable to me, because people born after then won't have any or very little memory of the 1990's, where as people born before then(who are part of gen y) would have memories of the 1990's.  Generation y are the youngest people who can remember the 1990's. We wern't born with the technologies we have now. One thing that is unique to this generation(gen y) is that we are the last generation to ever live in a world where computures wern't household items, where the only phones were home phones(lanldine) and payphones, video games where only pixelated, we didn't have the internet, public schools actually celebrated christmas and put up a christmas tree(no-offence to people of other religions), half-the cartoons weren't anime, the suburban streets ACTUALLY had kids playing in them, Most pop music was much less offencesive and discrete as it is now and kids were actually kids. The list gose on. 

Well, ok, you get the point, the world was very different when we were young. The world view for generation Z, will be heaps different to the veiw of generation Y. It's like two different worlds, generation Z, was born in the information age, and generation Y were/are the last generation to be born in the world just before that. Generation Y is the last generation to appriciate the change in technology over the last 10-12 years. Thats how I'd divide generation Y from Z.


I agree.

I'm early '90s born, and even I get kind of annoyed when people act like I was "born under a computer" or "never knew a world before the Ipod".  That's ridiculous; it's not like memory starts at age 10.   It's really more like age 3.  The 1990s still had enough pre-digital technology that someone who can remember them would have an idea of what life was like before it.

I'll admit, I never knew vinyl or typewriters (aside from them being old!), but I knew payphones, what it's like to not have Internet (even though my parents had it through the second half of the '90s), the final age of TV, etc.  When I was a little kid (like 1994-1999) cell phones were something for the rich and for businesspeople.  Teenagers used payphones.

Yeah. I think I'm more into when they lampoon something going on, either politically or culturally, or make fun of a celebrity. Even if I like the person, I still get a kick out of it.

The "You killed Kenny!" violence and the overblown sex-related humor can get old sometimes, but it's still funny in limited amounts.


I'd agree. For instance, the "Douche or Turd" episode is brilliant, but the episode where they go to Canada is funny, but also just kind of weird and gross.

I agree.

I'm early '90s born, and even I get kind of annoyed when people act like I was "born under a computer" or "never knew a world before the Ipod".  That's ridiculous; it's not like memory starts at age 10.   It's really more like age 3.  The 1990s still had enough pre-digital technology that someone who can remember them would have an idea of what life was like before it.

I'll admit, I never knew vinyl or typewriters (aside from them being old!), but I knew payphones, what it's like to not have Internet (even though my parents had it through the second half of the '90s), the final age of TV, etc.  When I was a little kid (like 1994-1999) cell phones were something for the rich and for businesspeople.  Teenagers used payphones.


The same thing happened to me too. I used to get kinda annoyed if someone in 1996 told me they thought I wouldn't remember/be into the '80s, or didn't know what an 8-track was, etc.

That might be why, even though I liked alot of the current pop culture, I had an equal resentment for it at the same time. I didn't want to be "supposed" to like it instead of something from 1978 or 1984.

I like the post 1994 '90s alot more now than I did then. ;)

The same thing happened to me too. I used to get kinda annoyed if someone in 1996 told me they thought I wouldn't remember/be into the '80s, or didn't know what an 8-track was, etc.

That might be why, even though I liked alot of the current pop culture, I had an equal resentment for it at the same time. I didn't want to be "supposed" to like it instead of something from 1978 or 1984.

I like the post 1994 '90s alot more now than I did then. ;)


I'm lucky not to get so much peer pressure, although I have a hard time admitting my love for New Wave to my older brother, although I'm no longer a closet Devo fan to him.  He also like Tears for Fears, so I've been thinking about admitting my like for Talking Heads.

I'm lucky not to get so much peer pressure, although I have a hard time admitting my love for New Wave to my older brother, although I'm no longer a closet Devo fan to him.  He also like Tears for Fears, so I've been thinking about admitting my like for Talking Heads.


I've always said you can't really hide what you love. ;)

In other words, just in typical conversations, or in hanging out with someone, you're bound to reveal something about yourself. It also shows when you're knowledgeable on something and when you're not, so unless someone is a d*mn good actor, you'll end up dropping hints intentionally or not. ;D

That's what's happened with me and the '80s with everyone.

Talking Heads have some good songs. Not a big overall fan, but I love "Burning Down the House" and "Wild Wild Life" (the latter is VERY new wave).

I've always said you can't really hide what you love. ;)

In other words, just in typical conversations, or in hanging out with someone, you're bound to reveal something about yourself. It also shows when you're knowledgeable on something and when you're not, so unless someone is a d*mn good actor, you'll end up dropping hints intentionally or not. ;D

That's what's happened with me and the '80s with everyone.

Talking Heads have some good songs. Not a big overall fan, but I love "Burning Down the House" and "Wild Wild Life" (the latter is VERY new wave).


One thing about New Wave is that while when done best, it's sonically more appealing than anything, but I'm only into a few bands and then a bunch of singles from various bands.  Most New Wave albums are the singles + throwaway stuff.

One thing about New Wave is that while when done best, it's sonically more appealing than anything, but I'm only into a few bands and then a bunch of singles from various bands.  Most New Wave albums are the singles + throwaway stuff.


True. I like some full length albums, but those tend to be from the "new wave sounding" bands that aren't fully new wave (The Cars, Billy Idol, Romantics, etc).

P.S. I really do think if someone had never heard a given new wave song before and didn't know it was '80s, they could mistake it for a modern song. At least some of them.

True. I like some full length albums, but those tend to be from the "new wave sounding" bands that aren't fully new wave (The Cars, Billy Idol, Romantics, etc).

P.S. I really do think if someone had never heard a given new wave song before and didn't know it was '80s, they could mistake it for a modern song. At least some of them.


I think New Wave (real New Wave, like Devo, Waitresses, The Police, etc., not new wave pop like a-ha or Cyndi Lauper) is actually pretty similar in spirit to '90s and '00s grunge and alternative.  Hell, sometimes even the Gorillaz will venture into new wave territory, and No Doubt were able to become popular as soon as grunge went away.

When done best, New Wave imo sounds better than any other type of music.  The synthesizers, when used best, sound extremely melodic and pleasant, unlike say a trance or drum n bass track from the past 15 years.

I think New Wave (real New Wave, like Devo, Waitresses, The Police, etc., not new wave pop like a-ha or Cyndi Lauper) is actually pretty similar in spirit to '90s and '00s grunge and alternative.  Hell, sometimes even the Gorillaz will venture into new wave territory, and No Doubt were able to become popular as soon as grunge went away.

When done best, New Wave imo sounds better than any other type of music.  The synthesizers, when used best, sound extremely melodic and pleasant, unlike say a trance or drum n bass track from the past 15 years.


I've always had a hard time categorizing The Police. They have traces of '80s arena rock/pop rock, but in some ways, would seem more at home next to the Foo Fighters than they would to Journey, if you know what I mean?

Of course they started out as a punk band, so that could explain their multi appeal.

I've always had a hard time categorizing The Police. They have traces of '80s arena rock/pop rock, but in some ways, would seem more at home next to the Foo Fighters than they would to Journey, if you know what I mean?

Of course they started out as a punk band, so that could explain their multi appeal.


The Police are unclassifiable.  In some ways they sound like a '90s band, even though "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic" sounds like an '80s or possibly early '90s track.  I would call them New Wave simply because it's such a vast term.

The Police are unclassifiable.  In some ways they sound like a '90s band, even though "Every Little Thing She Does Is Magic" sounds like an '80s or possibly early '90s track.  I would call them New Wave simply because it's such a vast term.


I heard it on their Behind the Music, that they're one of the few bands who really could regroup and "pick up where they left off" and it would still be received well. I'd agree with that.

You know what? I think they're an "80s-ified" version of '90s alternative/grunge rock.

I heard it on their Behind the Music, that they're one of the few bands who really could regroup and "pick up where they left off" and it would still be received well. I'd agree with that.

You know what? I think they're an "80s-ified" version of '90s alternative/grunge rock.



I'd agree, even though that's technically impossible. I would also put REM in that category, and maybe the Smiths and Cure too.

I think that the '70s was really dead by 1979. Disco was old and most of '70s culture was gone by then, and I don't think that the '80s could be said to have started kicking off until 1981, when alot of the big musical artists and trends popularized. Anyway, I still hold to my belief that somebody born after the mid-90s or even '95 couldn't remember a pre-digitalized world too well...I still remember typewriters, we used them up into the mid-'90s and I used to play with an old electric.

I think that the '70s was really dead by 1979. Disco was old and most of '70s culture was gone by then, and I don't think that the '80s could be said to have started kicking off until 1981, when alot of the big musical artists and trends popularized. Anyway, I still hold to my belief that somebody born after the mid-90s or even '95 couldn't remember a pre-digitalized world too well...I still remember typewriters, we used them up into the mid-'90s and I used to play with an old electric.


I'd agree that 1995 is the digital cutoff, but I think them and 1996 could just squeeze in, since they could probably recall 1999.

Maybe...I think Gen Y per se could be said to have ended '93, '94 though. People to about '96 probably will pick up Y characteristics, but I think they'll be more like Gen Z and won't identify as much with the mid-80s to early-90s crop of people.

Maybe...I think Gen Y per se could be said to have ended '93, '94 though. People to about '96 probably will pick up Y characteristics, but I think they'll be more like Gen Z and won't identify as much with the mid-80s to early-90s crop of people.


I agree to some extent.  People born in 1994 and onwards seem to have a different world view than me, and I'm also a 1990er.

How would you say it's different, just out of curiosity?

How would you say it's different, just out of curiosity?



I feel that they don't have a comprehensive memory of things that happened before 1999.  They can't remember those very late old school days of 1996-1998 like someone born from 1989-1993 would.  Also, unlike someone born in 1990 or 1992, a person born in 1994 actually would pretty much be immersed in a digital world, considering that even VHS tapes became obsolete by the time they were 8.

I agree.

I'm early '90s born, and even I get kind of annoyed when people act like I was "born under a computer" or "never knew a world before the Ipod".  That's ridiculous; it's not like memory starts at age 10.   It's really more like age 3.  The 1990s still had enough pre-digital technology that someone who can remember them would have an idea of what life was like before it.



I totally agree with that. I didnt get on the internet till I was 10 or get a computer at home till I was 12 thats almost my entire pre-teenage years yet people make the same assumption about me.