Quoting:
No one in the music industry, and certainly not Marilyn Manson himself, ever called Marilyn Manson goth.  That was primarily the result of mainstream news programs, which you rightly railed against later in your post.

The idea that nothing original happened in the 90's is ridiculous and false.

The Columbine incident also upsets me, but for different reasons than the one you listed.

I have never seen an actual Starbucks.  Isn't that weird?  And I don't live in the sticks, either.
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The 90's just seemed completely false to me. I am completely jaded. Can you tell? I lived in a semi ghetto neighborhood in the 90's and there was a Starbucks there. The media in the 90's got out of hand with a bunch of things. The Columbine shootings were an obvious example. I knew somebody that lived near there and she told me that the area is very uptight and not accepting of differences. Did we ever hear about that when it happened? I don't condone the shootings but I can understand why it happened.

Quoting:
 I really couldn't stand most of the nineties. Seriously......Here are my reasons......
1. The music industry tried to cash in on every underground scene and they got everything wrong. Green Day punk? Marilyn Manson goth? Get real you money hungry record execs...Burn in the netherworld you scum!!!
2.Commercial radio sucked every band tried to sound like Nirvana or any other sucsessful band. It was pathetic. Nirvana were not even that great!!!!My opinion of course.
3. Rozz Williams commited suicide. That still pisses me off. There was barely any mention of it in the press even though he was hugely influential in the American goth scene. Go figure......
4.Butt crack pants. Oh yeah..looking like you are walking with a load in your jeans is attractive. ::)
5.No original ideas. There really weren't any. Everything was a rehash of something that happened in another decade.ERRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
6.SUVs. Why does everybody have to have a big huge car to drive around town in. Gas guzzling monstosities...that's what they are!!!!GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
I could go on..........I probably will once I take some deep breaths....... ::) >:(
Here are some more reasons.....
7. The whole Colombine incident. After the media started to portray people who dress in black as serial killers I felt like like a social pariah. Well...I always have but after the media over hyped it I got hateful stares and stupid questions posed at me all of the time. Thanks media for saying that I listen to Marilyn Manson and that I am a satanist. Gee I didn't know I liked that crappy band and followed a religion when I am an atheist.
8. Dot com scum. I lived in the SF Bay Area in the 90's and the dot com scum where everywhere! Driving up the rents and being snobs. I actually laughed when they went bust and had to move away. Yuppie scum die!!!!!! They forced clubs to close down and made living there impossible!!!!!!
9.Starbucks. Corporate scumbags. I mean how many Starbucks does a town need? I have never been there and I never will. In fact corporate scum flourished in the 90's. Double GRRRRR!!
 I think I'm done now.........maybe.......
>:(
End Quote

I'll agree with Number 6 and Number 9 on your list. I don't get why so many people have to drive SUV's. People whine well you bought a foreign car and didn't buy American. Than they people who buy American buy gas guzzling SUV's and people wonder why were in a tussle with Iraq right now. Number 9 I'll agree with because everything is so coorperate. Of course Enron, Tyco, and World com went down. I have a problem with sports players salaries. They get paid too much. It the owners of these team's faults. The owners are the dumb ones. Alex Rodriguez's contract a few years ago: 10 years, 120 million. The owners have gone loco(crazy.)

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i think the nineties were good in retrospect - but only cause the 2000's were even worse >:(
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I think this decade is probably the worst one yet. I am so jaded that nothing impresses me any longer. ::)

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Alex Rodriguez's contract a few years ago: 10 years, 120 million. The owners have gone loco(crazy.)
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Slight correction:
A-Rod's contract was 10 years, 250 million dollars.

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I think this decade is probably the worst one yet. I am so jaded that nothing impresses me any longer. ::)
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Jesus, give it a chance, at least.  It's barely even started yet.  Granted, it's not shaping up very well...

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Jesus, give it a chance, at least.  It's barely even started yet.  Granted, it's not shaping up very well...
End Quote

But I don't wanna!!!*pouts* ;D

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I guess I'm the only one who liked most of the 90s (1990-1996) ??? Granted, it went downhill really quick. Musicwise, anything that got rid of Hair bands is worthy of my admiration. I'm not a big fan of Nirvana, but, man, was it a breath of fresh air not to have to hear any more of crap from bands like Poison, Winger, and Motley Crue (which is what made the 80s suck in the first place...). This was a time when bands such as Tool, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Radiohead, Collective Soul, Urge Overkill, Soul Asylum, The Catherine Wheel, Sonic Youth, The Afghan Whigs, The Stone Temple Pilots, and Pearl Jam were in heavy rotation... imagine that... (okay, so you guys may not like the bands I listed. There's no need to heckle and hiss).
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I never listened to hair metal bands so that wasn't a problem for me.  ;D As for the other bands you listed...*heckle....heckle....heckle.....* ;D

Quoting:
Hey, there is nothing wrong with those bands!

Except for Collective Soul.  

And Soul Asylum once they got popular.

Can't say I've ever been overfond of Urge Overkill.

Never listened to any Catherine Wheel...
End Quote

LOL!!!!!! ;D

Quoting:
What is wrong with SUV's?  Just because I have 3 kids (2 whom are still required by law to be in car seats), I have to drive a station wagon or minivan?  I have owned a minivan, and my SUV gets almost the same mpg as it did.  Believe me, I have tried to fit 2 carseats and another child in the back seat of a car, and my poor 7 year old is squished like the cream filling of an oreo.   Plus, by the time you get the carseats, diaper bags, strollers, etc into a regular car, you might as well not go anywhere because you can't fit anything else in the car!  

Okay, I'll give you the Starbucks thing, but come on, they have great coffee!!! ;D
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We are going to 'war'with Iraq partially because of their oil. SUV's use more gasoline than any other kind of car. Since more people are buying them we as a nation are using more gas. Hence my hatred......There is better coffee than Starbucks out there. Trust me!!!!

Quoting:

We are going to 'war'with Iraq partially because of their oil. SUV's use more gasoline than any other kind of car. Since more people are buying them we as a nation are using more gas. Hence my hatred......There is better coffee than Starbucks out there. Trust me!!!!
End Quote

Quoting:
There is better out there, but Starbucks is dang good and easily available.  Try there Sumatra beans, good wire coffee and very flavorfull.

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Why support a greedy corporation that exploits its workers when you can support a local place instead? Beleive it or not I can't drink coffee. I get very ill if I attempt to. It's not about coffee as much as it is about corporate responsibility. Same goes for Walmart! I can't stand them! I refuse to shop at either chain. >:(

Quoting:

Why support a greedy corporation that exploits its workers when you can support a local place instead? Beleive it or not I can't drink coffee. I get very ill if I attempt to. It's not about coffee as much as it is about corporate responsibility. Same goes for Walmart! I can't stand them! I refuse to shop at either chain. >:(
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Quoting:
Starbucks doesn't exploit there workers.  They pay over the average  wage for the area, have a 401-k retirement plan, health benefits.  They compensate their workers much better than a small local coffee shop can.

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They also buy their beans from growers that use child labour. They purposely over saturate neighborhoods and drive out local businesses. Their wages aren't enough to live on, and that goes for Walmart also. These mega-corporations don't care about anything but their profits. I understand that companies have to make money...but at the expense of the worker? I don't think so.........

Quoting:

They also buy their beans from growers that use child labour. They purposely over saturate neighborhoods and drive out local businesses. Their wages aren't enough to live on, and that goes for Walmart also. These mega-corporations don't care about anything but their profits. I understand that companies have to make money...but at the expense of the worker? I don't think so.........
End Quote

Quoting:
They pay over the premium of other employers who have similary skilled jobs. It is rediculous to expect working at a Starbucks, corner grocery store, or a fast food restauruant to pay "living" wages, these are low skilled jobs that are mostly staffed by younger workers who don't even wish to work full time to earn a "living" wage.
I live in Seattle, the past 15 years I have seen countless new coffee shops opening up and not all Starbucks, many new copanies are doing very well, the coffee shop that I stop at every day on the way to work is a private owned store.  There really was no market for all these coffee stores to serve before Starbucks.  
What is child labor?  I used to do yard work for the neighbors starting at 6 years, I had a paper route at the age of 11 and used to baby sit some neighborkids and mowed lawns, when I was 14 I worked for a small butcher shop after school wrapping meat and cleaning up, when that closed I went to work at a restraunt at 16 and also bought a pick-up an hauled wood and did some moving for people.  
Was I exploited?  If so by whom?  My mother, who I helped pay the bills with?  The people who employed me?  Myself?


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Do you think that picking beans ALL DAY is equivelent to mowing a lawn? Oh jeeze!!! ::) I am never going to go to Starbucks...and that is that. By the way, there are actually quite a few people  that work at low wage jobs and have to live off of that money. Not everybody can afford to go to college, and some people don't choose to go.There is nothing wrong with that.

Quoting:

Do you think that picking beans ALL DAY is equivelent to mowing a lawn? Oh jeeze!!! ::) I am never going to go to Starbucks...and that is that. By the way, there are actually quite a few people  that work at low wage jobs and have to live off of that money. Not everybody can afford to go to college, and some people don't choose to go.There is nothing wrong with that.
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Quoting:
Is that what you got out of my post, that I mowed a lawn?
Jesus, you are the most blindly ignorant person posting today.  Do some research, I did after you posts and Starbucks in doing "free trade" coffee buying and has started a program investing $ to assisting the farmers in costa rica.  You want something to stand on a soap box and denounce?  Look in to chocolate out of Africa.


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No...I am not ignorant. Just opinionated....Sorry you don't like that. I am dropping the subject.....

Quoting:

No...I am not ignorant. Just opinionated....Sorry you don't like that. I am dropping the subject.....
End Quote

Quoting:

We are going to 'war'with Iraq partially because of their oil. SUV's use more gasoline than any other kind of car. Since more people are buying them we as a nation are using more gas. Hence my hatred......There is better coffee than Starbucks out there. Trust me!!!!
End Quote

Sorry, we are going to war with Iraq because of Saddam Hussein being an @$$, not because of their oil.  Only 20% of  our oil comes from the ENTIRE Persian Gulf (mostly from Saudi Arabia).  AND, more people are buying cars in general, that is why we as a nation are using more gas.  

Also, I am soooo tired of hearing people complain about foreign labor.  They throw around statistics like "they earn 26 cents an hour..."  That is based on OUR economy.  In THEIR economy, (most of the time) it is a pretty good wage.  I don't hear people complain about prisoners in our country who earn 26 cents an hour.  I don't have a college degree, but at my last job, I was earning $16/hour.  And, I have a small amount of respect for Wal-Mart.  I mean, what other store has "greeters"?  All of them I have ever seen are senior citizens, who get paid the same wage as other employees, and basically stand around and don't do much except say "Hi!"  They deserve a little bit of credit for that.  

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Sorry, we are going to war with Iraq because of Saddam Hussein being an @$$, not because of their oil.  Only 20% of  our oil comes from the ENTIRE Persian Gulf (mostly from Saudi Arabia).  AND, more people are buying cars in general, that is why we as a nation are using more gas.  

Also, I am soooo tired of hearing people complain about foreign labor.  They throw around statistics like "they earn 26 cents an hour..."  That is based on OUR economy.  In THEIR economy, (most of the time) it is a pretty good wage.  I don't hear people complain about prisoners in our country who earn 26 cents an hour.  I don't have a college degree, but at my last job, I was earning $16/hour.  And, I have a small amount of respect for Wal-Mart.  I mean, what other store has "greeters"?  All of them I have ever seen are senior citizens, who get paid the same wage as other employees, and basically stand around and don't do much except say "Hi!"  They deserve a little bit of credit for that.  
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Quoting:
Thank you 80's Cheeleader for a bit of levity to this conversation.  Big business is important to the US, it's the bigger companies that pay the highest wages, offer the medical and dental insurance, retirement plans, and of course a lot of employment.  This is not a cry to eat every meal at McDonals, and have 5 cup of coffee a day at Starbucks but don't bash what is good for your neighborhood.  
Seattle was the home of Boeinig Aircraft, Seattle took it for granted that they would always be her with there 100,000 good income jobs, plus all the business's that worked locally to support Boeing, coffee shops, restaraunts, high tech parts manufacterurs, etc.  Boeing moved it's headquarters to Chicago 2 years ago and the jobs locally have been dissaperaing, this year along 30,000 people have been layed off, about 50,000 total.  Is boeing to blame?  I know they would have preferred to stay, but business smarts said to go to an area that was more willing to work with them.  Darn business all you like, but others who enjoy the good "living wages" provided will not appreciate it.

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I never said 'darn business' I said damn corporate giants who are greedy and evil. Walmart has hundreds of lawsuits pending against it because of unfair business practices. Look it up...tis true. Also Walmart just lost a big lawsuit here in Portland cause they made people work off the clock without getting paid. Does that sound like a company that cares about it's workforce? Funny...it doesn't to me. Oops....I posted again....silly me. ::)

Quoting:

I never said 'damn business' I said damn corporate giants who are greedy and evil. Walmart has hundreds of lawsuits pending against it because of unfair business practices. Look it up...tis true. Also Walmart just lost a big lawsuit here in Portland cause they made people work off the clock without getting paid. Does that sound like a company that cares about it's workforce? Funny...it doesn't to me. Oops....I posted again....silly me. ::)
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Quoting:
The only thing good that came from the 90s is the Internet so now we can bash the nineties with it LOL!
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LOL!!!!!!!! ;D Quite right!!!!!

Quoting:
OK, I'll give you some credit for Wal Mart, I know of some stores havning people working off the clock.  I don't belive this is company policy, it's the reaction of some stores to keep there costs down and look good to the corporate office. That is not a "corporate" evil, that is supervisors and managers putting their budgets ahead of managing there people well.  Speeking as a manager it is just as important to protect the interests of the workers as it is corporate overhead.  I'm sure WalMart has learned this lesson deservadly the hard way.


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I agree with the Wal-Mart thing, I know of many people who work at Wal-Mart stores nearby and none of them have ever been asked to work overtime off the clock.  And, I agree, some stores DO try to keep costs down by doing such things, but it is not necessarily the "corporate" office mandating this.  And, like it or not, it IS big business that keeps this country running.

Quoting:
   And you all can thank me for taking the initiative and creating the internet... ;D
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Quoting:


I agree with the Wal-Mart thing, I know of many people who work at Wal-Mart stores nearby and none of them have ever been asked to work overtime off the clock.  And, I agree, some stores DO try to keep costs down by doing such things, but it is not necessarily the "corporate" office mandating this.  And, like it or not, it IS big business that keeps this country running.
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Oh, and the economy is doing SO well right now..... ::)

Quoting:

Oh, and the economy is doing SO well right now..... ::)

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Quoting:
Exactly!  The economy isn't doing so well right now, is that not a strong illustration how important the health of business is to us?  Is it not a great argument towards supporting big business?

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My point exactly. :)

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I'm surrounded by conservative people on this board.End Quote

Don't judge by appearances. LOL!!!  ;D

Well, I'm glad we got all that negative stuff out of our systems.

I find the 1990's worst aspect to be in the artistic world. Style, TV and Radio just began their rapid descent down the toilet.  :P ::)  It's still overflowing!!!  :o :-/ :-X :-[ >:(

Quoting:


Sorry, we are going to war with Iraq because of Saddam Hussein being an @$$, not because of their oil.  Only 20% of  our oil comes from the ENTIRE Persian Gulf (mostly from Saudi Arabia).  AND, more people are buying cars in general, that is why we as a nation are using more gas.  

Also, I am soooo tired of hearing people complain about foreign labor.  They throw around statistics like "they earn 26 cents an hour..."  That is based on OUR economy.  In THEIR economy, (most of the time) it is a pretty good wage.  I don't hear people complain about prisoners in our country who earn 26 cents an hour.  I don't have a college degree, but at my last job, I was earning $16/hour.  And, I have a small amount of respect for Wal-Mart.  I mean, what other store has "greeters"?  All of them I have ever seen are senior citizens, who get paid the same wage as other employees, and basically stand around and don't do much except say "Hi!"  They deserve a little bit of credit for that.  
End Quote

Well spoken.  I'll add too, an annoying issue I've noticed.  The same people who complain about SUVs (for gas) are usually the same 1s now driving 90mph down the highway in their little cars.  People tend to think they can make up the difference.  So, your mileage improvement in little cars (or any) hasn't lessened the use of gas anyway.

This is not to mention that SUVs are a natural progression from the little-truck and minivan crazes of the '80s.  Surely older kids who loved the little trucks liked the idea of combining them w/Mom's nerdy minivan for their own family convenience.  Not that the Suburban, Bronco and Jeep Cherokee didn't exist before; just wasn't a phenomenon until people got more and more squeezed (literally) by little cars since the big boys were "out".

Quoting:


Now now, there's no need to insult others by using the "C" word :) :D ;D
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;D ;D ;D

Quoting:


Well spoken.  I'll add too, an annoying issue I've noticed.  The same people who complain about SUVs (for gas) are usually the same 1s now driving 90mph down the highway in their little cars.  People tend to think they can make up the difference.  So, your mileage improvement in little cars (or any) hasn't lessened the use of gas anyway.

This is not to mention that SUVs are a natural progression from the little-truck and minivan crazes of the '80s.  Surely older kids who loved the little trucks liked the idea of combining them w/Mom's nerdy minivan for their own family convenience.  Not that the Suburban, Bronco and Jeep Cherokee didn't exist before; just wasn't a phenomenon until people got more and more squeezed (literally) by little cars since the big boys were "out".
End Quote

Let's not forget the BMW's, Mercedes', Lexus' (basically any car that is overpriced because of a brand name) that seem to think that the rules of the road don't apply to them. ;D  

There is nothing more satisfying than being in my Ford Expedition not letting someone in a little sportscar (who is trying to merge at the last possible moment or jumped out of line to get 3 cars ahead of where they were) cut in. ;)

Quoting:
The 90's were just boring, uncreative and non-original to me, artistically speaking.

End Quote

I TOTALLY agree with you!

Quoting:
I liked the very early 90's.  1990-'92 was cool.

Everything from 1993 and onwards has just been garbage, or at best,.....just OK.  So that is 10 years now of terrible to at best simply OK music/pop culture.
End Quote

Doesn't sound too far off from a description of the 80s. From 1980-1984 pop culture ruled in every aspect and then Hair bands took over at around 1985. For the most part, the 80s began to suck right mid-decade. Of course, nothing will suck more than the late 90s ;D

Quoting:
I don't understand why everybody hated the 90's so much. The 80's had their ups and downs too. I just go with the flow. I don't go by decade. I liked the music scene from 1982-1998. I like some songs now but not as much as I used to like music. The music industry is mostly targeting high school kids and leaving ages 20 year olds on up out in the cold. There is nothing you can do about it. That is who the music industry is targeting.
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True, very true.  If you're over the age of 20, (21 at the most) then you are too old for the music industry.  Therefore anyone over 20 will automatically resent the current music/pop culture.

But hey I'm CERTAIN that in 4-6 years, by the late 00's, everyone will be saying kinder words about the 90's.  Every decade was condemed, even the almighty 80s.  People said that the 80's were nothing but glitzy MTV goofiness and manufactured synth music that was all style but lacked any real substance.  The question often asked back then was anyone even playing instruments anymore?  Or was it all done on soulless syntheziers/keyboards?   But time has passed, and now the 80s are looked back at very fondly.

Also keep in mind that I think a lot of people could never get used to the change in style that happened back in late 1991/early 1992.  One day it was power ballads, the next it was folky alternative/grunge and gangsta rap.  Stuff that was never part of the mainstream.  It's been 11-12 years now, but I still think some people never got used to the change.

Quoting:
considering this was originally an 80's site and so its 80's lovers that will be in the majority here, its no wonder the 90's gets bashed a lot. With that said, it does get a little tiring of hearing all the 80s teens and preteens always coming through on 50% of the topics and talk about how stupid this and that were in the 90s, the 90s were boring, the 90s werent about anything, 80s forever, blah blah blah, wah wah wah. Hush  :P
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Point taken, but people do have that right to express their opinion as long as it falls within the Forum Guidelines.

No one bashes the 90's fans here, just the decade. Though I think "bash" is a little strong of a word.

If it annoys you so much to see 90's bashing by 80's fans, then stand-up for the 90's instead of complaining about it.

Do you think you'll find more 90's lovers elsewhere?

Don't tell others to "hush" about their own opinions.

Everyone has a right to their opinions and we don't have to like them.

Quoting:
blah blah blah, wah wah wah. Hush  :PEnd Quote

That's where.  ;)

Ok.

Glad we got that outta the way.  ;D

Post on, folks.

Quoting:
The 1990's are over. It's best to be focused towards the present & future.  8)  Not all of the music was THAT bad in the 1990's like Soundgarden,Matchbox Twenty,Alanis Morissette,The Fugees,STP,Nirvana,Red Hot Chili Peppers,etc. TV may had some turkies like "Friends","Blossom", "Jerry Springer","Barney", & "The Nanny". Such shows like: "Sienfeld","The Fresh Prince of Bel Air","pARKER Louis Can't Lose", "South Park" (trashy,but well written), and "Beavis & Butt-Head" were great! And I'm not a "hip" person.  :D Heck, I know people who grew up in the 1980's who doesn't like their generation. (no offense) :-X
I'm not trying to say that the '90's were great. I'm more focused with the present. The past is the past.
Atleast Deborah Gibson sounds better & look even more beautiful than she was in 1987. And the internet was around.
Heck, "Sienfeld" is the only NBC sitcom I like...until "Just Shoot Me" came along in 1997. Since the 2000 season,it gotten worse..."The Flying Nun" last season worst!!!
The 1990's weren't THAT bad...atleast it wasn't like the turbulant 1960's. (No offense to those who grew up in the '60's.) If I grew up in the 1980's,I would feel the same way. "Oh, Too materialistic!,too greedy,where's folk?,etc..."
(NO OFFENSE TO THOSE...WELL,A HUGE MAJORITY...WHO GREW UP IN THE 1980'S) OK,I maybe a "post PC"/over sensitive person,but...ah nev'mind. Can't we all just get along!
This reminds me of myself trying to watch a "Sienfeld" rerun &
a younger relative wants to watch "TRL"...ah, a generation gap!!!
End Quote

ERROR:"The Fresh Prince of Bel Air" was an NBC sitcom!!!
Well, Deborah Ann Marie Gibson still looks great & sounds even better. The only reason why I like "V.I.P." is because of Molly Culver & Natalie Ritiano. Pamela Anderson is just...NO TALENT!

Quoting:
 I really couldn't stand most of the nineties. Seriously......Here are my reasons......
1. The music industry tried to cash in on every underground scene and they got everything wrong. Green Day punk? Marilyn Manson goth? Get real you money hungry record execs...Burn in the netherworld you scum!!!
2.Commercial radio sucked every band tried to sound like Nirvana or any other sucsessful band. It was pathetic. Nirvana were not even that great!!!!My opinion of course.
3. Rozz Williams commited suicide. That still pisses me off. There was barely any mention of it in the press even though he was hugely influential in the American goth scene. Go figure......
4.Butt crack pants. Oh yeah..looking like you are walking with a load in your jeans is attractive. ::)
5.No original ideas. There really weren't any. Everything was a rehash of something that happened in another decade.ERRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
6.SUVs. Why does everybody have to have a big huge car to drive around town in. Gas guzzling monstosities...that's what they are!!!!GRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!
I could go on..........I probably will once I take some deep breaths....... ::) >:(
Here are some more reasons.....
7. The whole Colombine incident. After the media started to portray people who dress in black as serial killers I felt like like a social pariah. Well...I always have but after the media over hyped it I got hateful stares and stupid questions posed at me all of the time. Thanks media for saying that I listen to Marilyn Manson and that I am a satanist. Gee I didn't know I liked that crappy band and followed a religion when I am an atheist.
8. Dot com scum. I lived in the SF Bay Area in the 90's and the dot com scum where everywhere! Driving up the rents and being snobs. I actually laughed when they went bust and had to move away. Yuppie scum die!!!!!! They forced clubs to close down and made living there impossible!!!!!!
9.Starbucks. Corporate scumbags. I mean how many Starbucks does a town need? I have never been there and I never will. In fact corporate scum flourished in the 90's. Double GRRRRR!!
 I think I'm done now.........maybe.......
>:(
End Quote

I definitely agree with most of that.  I pretty much was fed up with the 90's after 1994.  I don't know, I think that pop culture just turned into a big ugly collage of rehashed, unimaginitive shite.  

I turned 20 in December of 95 so I really began to see the world with different eyes too.  But there I'm starting to get too deep.  

The #1 biggest reason the 90's sucked was that Def Leppard stopped ruling the airwaves!  ;)