I've heard from people who remember the 80's well that even in later 1989, the 80s were ridiculed and uncool even if people still wore the fashion and listened to the music, yet on the other hand, I've also heard that the 80's feeling lasted a couple years into the 90's and didn't really die until well into 1991 or even 1992. Looking at movies and pictures and old yearbooks 1989 seems completely and wholly 80s, it's hard to imagine it literally died in just a few months though I wasn't there.

Was 1989 utterly eighties in every single way and then it was all 'gay' in 1990 and everyone was suddenly ironic and grungy? Or did it take quite a few years and wasn't really a perceptible change, or perhaps was fast but was delayed a bit beyond the 1990 mark?

Well I turned 10 in 1990, and from what I remember the earlier part of 1990 still felt like it was part of the '80s. There was a continuation of '80s fashion/colors, the only thing I felt that had changed right away was music. 1990 was not grungy though, that came much later.

I don't see much difference between 1989 and 1990 when watching my photos. I think they gave me more modern clothes around mid 1991; everything before looks quite (late) 80's.

Music from 1989 on sounds slighly 90's already - I think that even began around 1988. It was more or less a rather smooth transition overall.

I think people were definitely acknowledging that it was a new decade. It's referenced a lot in Roseanne. In an episode that aired in January 1990, Becky is doing a project on "women of the 90s". In another that aired around Halloween 1990, Roseanne makes a joke "This is the 90s Dan, witches are women" (in reference to Dan being worried about DJ wanting to be a witch, saying "witches are girls"). But the aesthetic didn't change much...Darlene wears an acid wash denim jacket and Becky has mall bangs. It's not until 1992 or 93 episodes that you see the grungier fashions show up, like flannel and plainer hair.

As for music, 1990 still had a lot of 80s-sounding songs, Roxette's "It Must Have Been Love" and Bon Jovi's "Blaze of Glory" being solid examples. Bryan Adams's huge hit "(Everything I Do) I Do It For You" from 1991 is right on par with "Heaven" from 1986. Other songs from this era (1989-1991) had a distinct sound, lots of cheesy hip hop and power ballads which are kind of "caught between" 80s and 90s culture. I'd actually say the only thing "90s" about 1990 music was Mariah Carey.

TV was a hybrid, you had new shows like Seinfeld, Roseanne, The Simpsons that premiered in the late 80s that would go on to define the 90s, but then there were also shows still on like The Cosby Show and Johnny Carson that kept the 80s alive.

Movies in the early 90s looked like the late 80s still...the picture quality has that 80s dullness for example.

Also in the movie Heathers, one of the Heathers says, "Grow up Heather, bulimia is so '87!"  This movie was filmed in 1988 and premiered in 1989.  I think by 1990, alot of stuff from 1987-1988 was already dated then. 

Billboard Charts 1987 - 1990

01. Walk Like An Egyptian » Bangles
02. Alone » Heart Heart - Heart
03. Shake You Down » Gregory Abbott
04. I Wanna Dance With Somebody (Who Loves Me) » Whitney Houston
05. Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now » Starship
06. C'est La Vie » Robbie Nevil
07. Here I Go Again » Whitesnake
08. The Way It Is » Bruce Hornsby & The Range Bruce Hornsby
09. Shakedown » Bob Seger
10. Livin' On A Prayer » Bon Jovi Bon Jovi
11. La Bamba » Los Lobos Los Lobos
12. Everybody Have Fun Tonight » Wang Chung Wang Chung
13. Don't Dream It's Over » Crowded House
14. Always » Atlantic Starr
15. With Or Without You » U2
16. Looking For A New Love » Jody Watley
17. Head To Toe » Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam Lisa Lisa & Cult Jam
18. I Think We're Alone Now » Tiffany
19. Mony Mony » Billy Idol
20. At This Moment » Billy Vera & The Beaters

1988

01. Faith » George Michael
02. Need You Tonight » INXS
03. Got My Mind Set On You » George Harrison
04. Never Gonna Give You Up » Rick Astley
05. Sweet Child O' Mine » Guns N' Roses
06. So Emotional » Whitney Houston
07. Heaven Is A Place On Earth » Belinda Carlisle
08. Could've Been » Tiffany
09. Hands To Heaven » Breathe
10. Roll With It » Steve Winwood
11. One More Try » George Michael
12. Wishing Well » Terence Trent d'Arby
13. Anything For You » Gloria Estefan & Miami Sound Machine
14. The Flame » Cheap Trick
15. Get Outta My Dreams, Get Into My Car » Billy Ocean
16. Seasons Change » Expose
17. Is This Love » Whitesnake
18. Wild, Wild West » Escape Club
19. Pour Some Sugar On Me » Def Leppard
20. I'll Always Love You » Taylor Dayne

1989

01. Look Away » Chicago
02. My Prerogative » Bobby Brown
03. Every Rose Has Its Thorn » Poison
04. Straight Up » Paula Abdul
05. Miss You Much » Janet Jackson
06. Cold Hearted » Paula Abdul
07. Wind Beneath My Wings » Bette Midler
08. Girl You Know Its True » Milli Vanilli
09. Baby, I Love Your Way-Freebird » Will To Power
10. Giving You The Best That I Got » Anita Baker
11. Right Here Waiting » Richard Marx
12. Waiting For A Star To Fall » Boy Meets Girl
13. Lost In Your Eyes » Debbie Gibson
14. Don't Wanna Lose You » Gloria Estefan
15. Heavan » Warrant
16. Girl I'm Gonna Miss You » Milli Vanilli
17. The Look » Roxette
18. She Drives Me Crazy » Fine Young Cannibals
19. On Our Own » Bobby Brown
20. Two Hearts » Phil Collins

1990

01. Hold On » Wilson Phillips
02. It Must Have Been Love » Roxette
03. Nothing Compares 2 U » Sinead O'Connor
04. Poison » Bell Biv Devoe
05. Vogue » Madonna
06. Vision Of Love » Mariah Carey
07. Another Day In Paradise » Phil Collins
08. Hold On » En Vogue
09. Cradle Of Love » Billy Idol
10. Blaze Of Glory » Jon Bon Jovi
11. Do Me! » Bell Biv Devoe
12. How Am I Supposed To Live Without You » Michael Bolton
13. Pump Up The Jam » Technotronic
14. Opposites Attract » Paula Abdul
15. Escapade » Janet Jackson
16. All I Wanna Do Is Make Love To You » Heart
17. Close To You » Maxi Priest
18. Black Velvet » Alannah Myles
19. Release Me » Wilson Phillips
20. Don't Know Much » Linda Ronstadt & Aaron Neville

IMO, styles started to change in '88, and by '90 the "90s" started coming in. 

The music changed, It went from old school to hardcore rap after 1990 most likely the early 1990's.

Music in 1990 was nothing like music in 1995 though, other than Mariah Carey, so that's why I have an issue saying that 1988-1991ish stuff has the "90s sound". Roxette, Heart, Bon Jovi, Madonna, Phil Collins, Billy Idol? I'd say those are more reminiscent of 1985 than 1995. So yes, the change was starting, but overall the selection was more like the 80s.

Music in 1990 was nothing like music in 1995 though, other than Mariah Carey, so that's why I have an issue saying that 1988-1991ish stuff has the "90s sound". Roxette, Heart, Bon Jovi, Madonna, Phil Collins, Billy Idol? I'd say those are more reminiscent of 1985 than 1995. So yes, the change was starting, but overall the selection was more like the 80s.


IMO, the 80's was over by the early 90's.  Madonna's Like a Virgin Album and Like a Prayer/Erotica period are very different.  Wham still being popular in 1985 to Paula Abdul by 1989, is very different to me.

I didn't mean to say 1989-1991 were "pure 80s" or identical to 1985, but I just don't think they were stereotypical 90s and clearly had a lot in common with the late 80s. The original question was "did things suddenly change when 1990 hit", and I don't believe they did.

I didn't mean to say 1989-1991 were "pure 80s" or identical to 1985, but I just don't think they were stereotypical 90s and clearly had a lot in common with the late 80s. The original question was "did things suddenly change when 1990 hit", and I don't believe they did.


Well, that's what is sounded like to me.  So thanks for clearing that up  ::).  Well there are different parts of the 90's, early, mid, and late.  And please don't reiterate that question for me I heard it the first time.  ::)

The point I'm trying to get at is that the transition was overall pretty seamless...music wasn't "suddenly 90s". If that offended you then I'm sorry, no need to roll your eyes at me.

The point I'm trying to get at is that the transition was overall pretty seamless...music wasn't "suddenly 90s". If that offended you then I'm sorry, no need to roll your eyes at me.


Sorry Mark, you make alot of very good points.  Yes most transitions are seamless, but at one point or another they come to a border or mixing period, that's why I draw the line at around '88 since that's when alot of "1990" things in the 80's started emerging.  It was different than 1990 was different from 1995 because the 80's had influenced what came after, although alot of totally 80's things were no longer in vogue, there was still enough 80's to a degree, but it was already the time most people were getting over it.  ;)

Glad we cleared that up and you make good points too -- there are definitely blending periods, I guess the real debate is when it becomes more one than the other.

I think overall, 1990 was just a really bland, uneventful year. I'm not even just talking about music, but in all aspects...I can think of major turning points that happened in 1989 (Fall of Berlin Wall, Bush 1.0 becoming president, beginning of the Disney Renaissance) and a ton in 1991 (debut of the WWW, release of Nirvana's Nevermind, SNES, Nicktoons, collapse of the Soviet Union), but nothing for 1990. The only thing I can really think of is German reunification. And the Gulf War, but that only lasted couple months and I'm not really sure it was a turning point. All things considered (music, world events, technology) the Bush 1.0 presidency was like an era unto itself.

Music in 1990 was nothing like music in 1995 though, other than Mariah Carey, so that's why I have an issue saying that 1988-1991ish stuff has the "90s sound". Roxette, Heart, Bon Jovi, Madonna, Phil Collins, Billy Idol? I'd say those are more reminiscent of 1985 than 1995. So yes, the change was starting, but overall the selection was more like the 80s.


and they came out with another album.

Glad we cleared that up and you make good points too -- there are definitely blending periods, I guess the real debate is when it becomes more one than the other.

I think overall, 1990 was just a really bland, uneventful year. I'm not even just talking about music, but in all aspects...I can think of major turning points that happened in 1989 (Fall of Berlin Wall, Bush 1.0 becoming president, beginning of the Disney Renaissance) and a ton in 1991 (debut of the WWW, release of Nirvana's Nevermind, SNES, Nicktoons, collapse of the Soviet Union), but nothing for 1990. The only thing I can really think of is German reunification. And the Gulf War, but that only lasted couple months and I'm not really sure it was a turning point. All things considered (music, world events, technology) the Bush 1.0 presidency was like an era unto itself.


And yet you have 1990 in your username. Were you BORN in 1990? That would explain why you don't remember MC Hammer, Home Alone or Super Mario Land (released 1989, but popular in 1990)

Only 1 thing changed:  Instead of writing 1989, you had to write 1990

And yet you have 1990 in your username. Were you BORN in 1990? That would explain why you don't remember MC Hammer, Home Alone or Super Mario Land (released 1989, but popular in 1990)


You took my post way too literally...of course I know about those things (I even own Super Mario Land) as well as other things that came along in 1990, but I don't view any of the ones you mentioned as being on the same level of significance or being culturally pivotal. Well actually MC Hammer is a good one, but wasn't he famous a bit before 1990?

You took my post way too literally...of course I know about those things (I even own Super Mario Land) as well as other things that came along in 1990, but I don't view any of the ones you mentioned as being on the same level of significance or being culturally pivotal. Well actually MC Hammer is a good one, but wasn't he famous a bit before 1990?


Yes somewhat but "U Can't Touch This" and "Pray" were his big songs. Wingdings are also from 1990.

Only 1 thing changed:  Instead of writing 1989, you had to write 1990


O0

In 1989 I worked at a compaay and we had to use these type of vouchers that had automatically printed "198_ "  as the year( the form was used for years, just fill in the 1 missing digit and you'd get the year you wanted within the 80s decade.)

As 1990 rolled around, a new form had to be created.

Even Mariah Carey's music in 1990, I don't see what makes it fundamentally different from say Whitney Houston at that time. Same with MC Hammer, I'd say he's closer to Run DMC than to Snoop Doggy Dogg.

Probably because Mariah actually debuted after 1990 dawned and went on to be the one of the decade's biggest music icons. But you're right, "Vision of Love" sounds like it could have easily come from Whitney's 1987 album.

Probably because Mariah actually debuted after 1990 dawned and went on to be the one of the decade's biggest music icons.


That's the same reason people see Britney's Baby One More Time as being a '00s album' even though it has a very 90's sound to it. Vision of Love to me isn't that different from a lot of late 80's R&B, it's still full of echoey snares, I think Mariah's later albums though are extremely 90's sounding.

mhmm, I actually edited my last post to mention Vision of Love.

Speaking only of music, if I recall right, there seemed to be a distinct shift around mid-1988.  It wasn't very gradual at all.  After that point the dominant sound took on characteristics I associate more with the early 90's than the 80's. 

Speaking only of music, if I recall right, there seemed to be a distinct shift around mid-1988.  It wasn't very gradual at all.  After that point the dominant sound took on characteristics I associate more with the early 90's than the 80's.


I actually think 'Never Gonna Give You Up' sounds a bit 90s-leaning. Still pretty 80's but in some ways, more 1993 than 1983. I believe Rick had another hit in 1991 as well if I'm not mistaken, Cry For Help was it called?

Yes somewhat but "U Can't Touch This" and "Pray" were his big songs. Wingdings are also from 1990.


What are wingdings?  ???

Probably because Mariah actually debuted after 1990 dawned and went on to be the one of the decade's biggest music icons. But you're right, "Vision of Love" sounds like it could have easily come from Whitney's 1987 album.


and she had so many hits in the early 90's.

I actually think 'Never Gonna Give You Up' sounds a bit 90s-leaning. Still pretty 80's but in some ways, more 1993 than 1983. I believe Rick had another hit in 1991 as well if I'm not mistaken, Cry For Help was it called?


Wasn't it "She Wants to Dance With Me"?  ???

Wasn't it "She Wants to Dance With Me"?  ???


One of them yes.  Rick Astley was not a one hit wonder.  He was a 16 hit wonder ...

YEAR 19871987198719881988 1988 1988 1989 1989 1989 1991 1991 1991 1993 1993 2010

SONG TITLE Never Gonna Give You Up Whenever You Need Somebody When I Fall in Love Together Forever It Would Take A Strong Strong Man She Wants to Dance With Me Take Me to Your Heart Hold Me in Your Arms Giving Up on Love Ain't Too Proud to Beg Cry For Help Move Right Out Never Knew Love The Ones You Love Hopelessly Lights Out

UK #1 #3 #2 #2 - #6 #8 #10 - - #7 #58 #70 #48 #33 #97

AUS #1#3#5#19 - #15 - #80 - - #13 - - - - -

USA #1--#1 #10 #6 - - #38 #89 #7 #81 - - #28 -

NL #1#2#3#12 - #8 #11 #35 - #11 - #66 - - - -

CAN #1--#1 #1 #1 - - #29 - #3 #36 - #53 #8 -

How about television programming? That changed when 1990 hit. A lot of of the 80's sitcoms had their finales then you had 1990's sitcoms after that.

I was thinking about this today. George Michael wasn't as popular in 1990 as he was in 1987-1988 when the "Faith" album was a huge success. He was still somewhat popular in 1990-1991. "Fastlove" was a semi-hit in 1996 then after that he flamed out popularity wise. I actually like some of his music even with "Wham!" even if its not cool to admit it.

I was thinking about this today. George Michael wasn't as popular in 1990 as he was in 1987-1988 when the "Faith" album was a huge success. He was still somewhat popular in 1990-1991. "Fastlove" was a semi-hit in 1996 then after that he flamed out popularity wise. I actually like some of his music even with "Wham!" even if its not cool to admit it.


His 1990 album Listen Without Prejudice Vol. 1 was highly anticipated based on the success of Faith, and outsold Faith in the UK, but despite starting off the decade with a US #1 hit (Praying For Time), the album didn't perform as expected in North America and was considered a commercial disappointment. 

His 1990 album Listen Without Prejudice Vol. 1 was highly anticipated based on the success of Faith, and outsold Faith in the UK, but despite starting off the decade with a US #1 hit (Praying For Time), the album didn't perform as expected in North America and was considered a commercial disappointment.

You are totally right, I remember that.

His 1990 album Listen Without Prejudice Vol. 1 was highly anticipated based on the success of Faith, and outsold Faith in the UK, but despite starting off the decade with a US #1 hit (Praying For Time), the album didn't perform as expected in North America and was considered a commercial disappointment.
I just looked at George Michael's discography on wikipedia and "Freedom(90)" was a big hit on the US charts in 1990 following "Praying For Time" hitting #8 on the US Hot 100 Chart. "Don't Let The Sun Go Down on Me" with Elton John hit #1 on the US Hot 100 in 1991 and "Jesus To a Child" was a top 10 hit in 1996.

I was thinking about this today. George Michael wasn't as popular in 1990 as he was in 1987-1988 when the "Faith" album was a huge success. He was still somewhat popular in 1990-1991. "Fastlove" was a semi-hit in 1996 then after that he flamed out popularity wise. I actually like some of his music even with "Wham!" even if its not cool to admit it.


He was more popular between 1985-1990.

What a great question!  I think the changes only become obviously when you start to look back upon them.  I was 18 turning 19 from 1989  to 1990 and it was a BIG change for me as I went from finishing high school to university and so a very distinct time of change for me. But in reference to music, I don't think the changes become too obvious until we were well and truly into the decade.  The synthesized pop sound of the 80s began to disappear and rave/dance music began to become popular-along with the grunge/rock Seattle sound in the US and the 'cool Britannia' sound of the UK - with bands like Blur, Oasis etc.  Boy bands changed from New Kids On The Block to N'Sync, Girl bands from Banananarama to Spice Girls.  Even 80s icons like Madonna changed into the "Vogue" sound and look and then moved towards Ray Of Light Madonna.

In terms of television, Twin Peaks appeared in 1990 and television was changed forever. It paved the way for shows such as the X-Files and, much later down the track, Lost. Television was never the same after Laura Palmer washed up on the shores "wrapped in plastic".

The short answer is no - like anything in life, the changes are only obvious in retrospect.

He was more popular between 1985-1990.
He got to technical musically in 1990 and not appearing in music video's might have been part of his downfall. Although "Freedom(90)" with the super models in the video wasn't a bad deal!

He got to technical musically in 1990 and not appearing in music video's might have been part of his downfall. Although "Freedom(90)" with the super models in the video wasn't a bad deal!


with songs like "Faith" and "Father Figure".

How about television programming? That changed when 1990 hit. A lot of of the 80's sitcoms had their finales then you had 1990's sitcoms after that.


Most of the big 80s sitcoms ended in 1992 and 1993 actually. Growing Pains, MacGyver, Who's the Boss, The Golden Girls, Cheers, The Wonder Years etc. I think 1993 was the actual finale of 80s culture in a lot of ways.

Speaking only of music, if I recall right, there seemed to be a distinct shift around mid-1988.  It wasn't very gradual at all.  After that point the dominant sound took on characteristics I associate more with the early 90's than the 80's.


Exactly.  It was mid-1988 when my interest in alternative pop began to wane.  Grunge was on the rise.  It wasn't until the early nineties that Nirvana and Pearl Jam went platinum, but if you were listening to college/indie radio, the Seattle sound was already big.
::)

How about as to what people were wearing after 1990?

with songs like "Faith" and "Father Figure".
Yeah "Father Figure" was a personal song from him but it did well in '88. "Faith" actually didn't sound like anything on the radio at the time now that I think about it. 1990 he started to take himself too seriously artistically.