You know...aqua net, perms, "mall bangs", etc. I know from my family's home videos and photos that it was still around in '90/'91, maybe even '92, though maybe not on as grand a scale as it was around '86-'88. At what point in the 90s would it have been laughable to still be walking around the mall with hair like this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3376/3237377688_bb773a8030.jpg
http://combatblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Palin-sportscaster.jpg
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/80s-big-bangs-hair-3.jpg?w=700&h=

I put this in the 80s forum because big hair was definitely more of an 80s thing than an early 90s thing.

From what I remember and in reference to family photos, it must have been around 1993 that it became more and more uncommon. But 'laughable' I think from about 1995 on.

"Big Hair" still continues with Brian May (from Queen)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Brian_May_Portrait_-_David_J_Cable.jpg/220px-Brian_May_Portrait_-_David_J_Cable.jpg

"Big Hair" still continues with Brian May (from Queen)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Brian_May_Portrait_-_David_J_Cable.jpg/220px-Brian_May_Portrait_-_David_J_Cable.jpg


It's a hard life for him

It probably stopped after 1989 then after that hairstyles were more different in the 1990's.

Not soon enough.

Back in high school I stumbled across some yearbooks from 1990-93 and everyone still had it in 1990, 91 and 92 but by 1993 it was out.

Yeah I think it was very prevalent in the early 90's, especially in the Midwest and South probably. It probably like many fads died first in California, New York City and New England and over a few years died elsewhere.

I think of big teased hair as lasting roughly from 1983 to 1992 and peaking in 1986, 1987 and 1988. I think up to 1982 you had more straight and feathered hair, a legacy of the 70's, but from 1980-82 and 1993-95 there were still bouffant hairdos here and there.

I think the first picture looks typical 1989 or 1990.

When did girls stop spraying their hair with Aqua Net or do they still do that but not as much as they used to?

I think it died out when the glam rock scene was destroyed by the alternative rock scene.  Around 1991

I have noticed some less extreme forms of "80's hair" are kind of making a comeback, especially among women who are 25 and older.

I think it died out when the glam rock scene was destroyed by the alternative rock scene.  Around 1991


I think it was more of the punk look with lots of different colors.

I think it died out when the glam rock scene was destroyed by the alternative rock scene.  Around 1991

That sounds about right. Kurt Cobain will probably be forever hated by 80's fans everywhere. At least some great bands of the 80's survived the toxic waste flood that was grunge!

Your Pal,
Doc
>:(

I think about about 1989, girls didn't poof up their hair anymore after that.

That sounds about right. Kurt Cobain will probably be forever hated by 80's fans everywhere. At least some great bands of the 80's survived the toxic waste flood that was grunge!

Your Pal,
Doc
>:(


Oh please!  So are you saying that if it wasn't for Nirvana, we'd all be walking around looking exactly the same as we did in the eighties?  That music wouldn't have evolved?  THINGS CHANGE.  THE WORLD CHANGES.  The 80's was great in a lot of ways, but it's over.  Get the net.
 

And I can't believe you smote Ladybug for her post. 

Oh please!  So are you saying that if it wasn't for Nirvana, we'd all be walking around looking exactly the same as we did in the eighties?  That music wouldn't have evolved?  THINGS CHANGE.  THE WORLD CHANGES.  The 80's was great in a lot of ways, but it's over.  Get the net.
 

And I can't believe you smote Ladybug for her post.


I think the Doc types his unhappy faces & gives fudge to people way to easily. Wish he wouldn't do that, but his quizzes are good. He's probably not gonna like what I wrote and he can fudge me if he wants.
Doc, I think you are a nice guy. I liked the 80s, just like you. I disliked Nirvana and the 90s. But try not to fudge someone who maybe just didn't like the same things you did.  :(

I find it hard to give fudges. The only fudge I ever gave out when someone sent me 2 more or less threateting pm's ( and the have been banned subsequently)

No point getting all bunged up about music, hair, fashions or whatever changing or evolving, it just does. Doesn't mean we can't appreciate it for what it was and still is to us now. Everyone has different likes and dislikes. I myself was an 80s teen and enjoyed that music and style, but I also liked some of the 'grunge' music and style as well. Liked them both and still do. Both influenced who I am today.

As to hair-I have seen a some women (and even a few men) still wearing the big hair nowadays!  ;D  ;D

And why not? It's their hair after all. I myself had the big hair thing until 1991 or so.  :D Went through a lot of Aquanet! I can remember girls actually measuring (with a ruler) the height of their hair to see who's was the tallest. LOL

Oh please!  So are you saying that if it wasn't for Nirvana, we'd all be walking around looking exactly the same as we did in the eighties? 


I'd be spotty and weight 98 lbs.  No thanx!
:-\\

That sounds about right. Kurt Cobain will probably be forever hated by 80's fans everywhere. At least some great bands of the 80's survived the toxic waste flood that was grunge!

Your Pal,
Doc
>:(


Grow up and move into this century, please.

By the way, I LOVE grunge!

As to hair-I have seen a some women (and even a few men) still wearing the big hair nowadays!

I still see some afros once in a while.

Oh please!  So are you saying that if it wasn't for Nirvana, we'd all be walking around looking exactly the same as we did in the eighties?  That music wouldn't have evolved?  THINGS CHANGE.  THE WORLD CHANGES.  The 80's was great in a lot of ways, but it's over.

No, I don't think we would be going around as we were in the 80's, and yes, music and fashion would have evolved. But it didn't. Because of Nirvana and grunge, it de-evolved, straight into back into drug culture, combined with negativity and a rise in suicide rates, basically the late 60's without the idealism. What exactly was grunge rebelling against? Success? Optimism? LIFE!? In other words, the whole theme of Nirvana's music was get high, complain about how good life is, and kill yourself before you become happy and successful. If that so-called music had not come to prominence, how many members of the grunge bands you may have liked could still be alive? Shannon Hoon(Blind Melon), Layne Staley(Alice In Chains, perhaps not grunge), the one from Smashing Pumpkins, and that one Gin Blossom? Think about it.

Your Pal,
Doc
:(

P.S.: Don't even get me started on Hip-Hop and Gangsta Rap!

No, I don't think we would be going around as we were in the 80's, and yes, music and fashion would have evolved. But it didn't. Because of Nirvana and grunge, it de-evolved, straight into back into drug culture, combined with negativity and a rise in suicide rates, basically the late 60's without the idealism. What exactly was grunge rebelling against? Success? Optimism? LIFE!? In other words, the whole theme of Nirvana's music was get high, complain about how good life is, and kill yourself before you become happy and successful. If that so-called music had not come to prominence, how many members of the grunge bands you may have liked could still be alive? Shannon Hoon(Blind Melon), Layne Staley(Alice In Chains, perhaps not grunge), the one from Smashing Pumpkins, and that one Gin Blossom? Think about it.

Your Pal,
Doc
:(

P.S.: Don't even get me started on Hip-Hop and Gangsta Rap!


1. Rather than assume Nirvana started a drug culture, one would think they only shined a light on a growing epidemic.  To put the blame on one band lets me know that you don't have your finger on the pulse of anything.
2. De-evolve is not a word.
3. It seems as though you are the one who has not evolved.  Hey, we are all nostalgic for our younger years but you seem to have this displaced anger at grunge for taking your good old 80's away from you; what a shame.

No, I don't think we would be going around as we were in the 80's, and yes, music and fashion would have evolved. But it didn't. Because of Nirvana and grunge, it de-evolved, straight into back into drug culture, combined with negativity and a rise in suicide rates, basically the late 60's without the idealism. What exactly was grunge rebelling against? Success? Optimism? LIFE!? In other words, the whole theme of Nirvana's music was get high, complain about how good life is, and kill yourself before you become happy and successful. If that so-called music had not come to prominence, how many members of the grunge bands you may have liked could still be alive? Shannon Hoon(Blind Melon), Layne Staley(Alice In Chains, perhaps not grunge), the one from Smashing Pumpkins, and that one Gin Blossom? Think about it.

Your Pal,
Doc
:(

P.S.: Don't even get me started on Hip-Hop and Gangsta Rap!


Wow, talk about your blanket statements and assumptions, not to mention prejudices. Where to start?

First: Nirvana did not cause a devolvement of anything. They were a band that became popular because they were playing at the right time, in the right place, etc. And it wasn't Nirvana that started the 'grunge' movement-they were just one of the more prominent bands. The 'Seattle Sound' had been around for a while before it hit big, and there were bands that were paying dues for that long before Nirvana. Music only becomes prevalent if quite a few people want to listen to it. So...there must have been a demand for it. They didn't burst into people's homes and demand that folks buy their albums did they? No.
Second: Not everyone who listened to that music did drugs. It is like any other period, where some do them and some don't. Just like 80s bands-some did drugs, some didn't. It isn't the music that makes kids take drugs; so I am calling BS on this one.
Third: If someone is on a self-destructive path and noone steps in to help, it doesn't matter what type of music they listen to OR play, bad things are going to happen. I was fortunate enough to know Shannon at one time; he was a beautiful soul who had a troubled life-if anything music was the brakes that stopped him from going over that cliff sooner.

Blaming the rise of a then-popular type of music and pop culture is a cop-out. That would be like saying that all the people who did drugs and killed themselves in the 80s did it because of hair bands, or punk bands. That all people who dig the reggae scene smoke pot, etc etc etc. That doesn't wash.

And, even hip-hop and gangsta rap has it's place. Angry young men that are speaking out about their world-you don't have to like it; but you do have to admit it is powerful and provocative.

Sorry for the lecture-back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Wow, talk about your blanket statements and assumptions, not to mention prejudices. Where to start?

First: Nirvana did not cause a devolvement of anything. They were a band that became popular because they were playing at the right time, in the right place, etc. And it wasn't Nirvana that started the 'grunge' movement-they were just one of the more prominent bands. The 'Seattle Sound' had been around for a while before it hit big, and there were bands that were paying dues for that long before Nirvana. Music only becomes prevalent if quite a few people want to listen to it. So...there must have been a demand for it. They didn't burst into people's homes and demand that folks buy their albums did they? No.
Second: Not everyone who listened to that music did drugs. It is like any other period, where some do them and some don't. Just like 80s bands-some did drugs, some didn't. It isn't the music that makes kids take drugs; so I am calling BS on this one.
Third: If someone is on a self-destructive path and noone steps in to help, it doesn't matter what type of music they listen to OR play, bad things are going to happen. I was fortunate enough to know Shannon at one time; he was a beautiful soul who had a troubled life-if anything music was the brakes that stopped him from going over that cliff sooner.

Blaming the rise of a then-popular type of music and pop culture is a cop-out. That would be like saying that all the people who did drugs and killed themselves in the 80s did it because of hair bands, or punk bands. That all people who dig the reggae scene smoke pot, etc etc etc. That doesn't wash.

And, even hip-hop and gangsta rap has it's place. Angry young men that are speaking out about their world-you don't have to like it; but you do have to admit it is powerful and provocative.

Sorry for the lecture-back to your regularly scheduled programming.


Bravo!!  Well said in SOOOO many ways!! 

1. Rather than assume Nirvana started a drug culture, one would think they only shined a light on a growing epidemic.  To put the blame on one band lets me know that you don't have your finger on the pulse of anything.
2. De-evolve is not a word.
3. It seems as though you are the one who has not evolved.  Hey, we are all nostalgic for our younger years but you seem to have this displaced anger at grunge for taking your good old 80's away from you; what a shame.

Fine, music did not 'de-evolve'.
But Grunge, by glorifying drug use, caused both music and fashion's devolution into depression, negativity, and fear of success. The early 90's should have been a much more optimistic time than the rise of Grunge allowed it to be. For the first time since before Rock was born, we were living without the spectre of nuclear annihilation or the infiltration of a police state. Plus the nation's entire attitude changed, and upbeat music would have been a balm for the frustration brought on by the recession, but Grunge's message was not to keep fighting our problems, but to flop in the basement and wallow in depression. Perhaps if it hadn't, the recovery would have come about sooner, instead of giving birth to the Slacker Generation(what else can you call Generation X, now that their time has come and gone!?). Want to think this over again, or just re-play "Smells Like Teen Spirit"?

Your Pal,
Doc
:(

You obviously don't understand cause and effect at all.  Grunge was not the cause of the abysmal 90's, it was the effect of the excessive 80's.

Sure, any genre of music may have an effect on culture but you're really blaming our country's inability to bounce back from a recession on a style of music?  Are you serious?!  How about looking at it from another angle, as I stated before, and realize that music is a reflection of what's actually going on. Doing as well as (you must feel) America was doing in the 80's, there was nowhere to go but down.  When the bottom fell out and people were pissed and they sang about the reality they were living.  If they didn't want to tease their hair and wear eyeliner and pretend everything was going to be hunky-dory - good on them.  I, for one, hate sunshine being blown up my ass, and appreciated those who were sharing their truth.  Music doesn't have to be a "balm" for the evil world and it certainly isn't the cause of it. 

Put your big boy undies on. :)

You obviously don't understand cause and effect at all.  Grunge was not the cause of the abysmal 90's, it was the effect of the excessive 80's.

Sure, any genre of music may have an effect on culture but you're really blaming our country's inability to bounce back from a recession on a style of music?  Are you serious?!  Music doesn't have to be a "balm" for the evil world and it certainly isn't the cause of it. 

Just what was so true about Grunge lyrics?

Yes I'm serious, look at the optimism and idealism of 60's and 80's having a positive effect on society's attitude, does it not stand to reason that the fatalism and depressivism(lacking a better word) of 90's music would have a negative effect? And I stand by the fact that music can and should be a balm for the ills of the world. In fact, that is what the negro spiritual was intended for, which evolved into gospel music, which in turn begat Blues(the purest example of music being a balm, the whole point of the genre is a means of overcoming negativity!), Jazz(the greatest art form ever created by Americans), and yes, ultimately, Rock & Roll! Therefore, Grunge is a flat-out contradiction of what Rock and its sister genres are supposed to be. Now who's not thinking like a big girl?

Your Pal,
Doc
8)

Just what was so true about Grunge lyrics?

Yes I'm serious, look at the optimism and idealism of 60's and 80's having a positive effect on society's attitude

Ah yes, the positivity of Jim Hendrix, Janice Joplin,the Sex Pistols, The Ramones, the list goes on and on. Yes, all positive indeed. Come on now, every generation has it's complaint rock. I, in fact love it because it is at least more honest than happy dippy everythings great mentality. And in all of the examples above, these were the musicians who blazed a new trail- and I absolutely love because they had the b@lls to say what they thought was wrong with the world. They were just voicing what some were feeling.

And I stand by the fact that music can and should be a balm for the ills of the world.
no disagreement, sometimes balm is needed-but who makes the decision of what the balm is? It is different for everyone.

Perhaps if it hadn't, the recovery would have come about sooner, instead of giving birth to the Slackers Generation(what else can you call Generation X, now that their time has come and gone!?). Want to think this over again, or just re-play "Smells Like Teen Spirit"?

and now you are generalizing again. If you want to win effective argument, give some solid examples. Generalizing just tends to make a person sound angry..I have been guilty of it myself a time or three.  ;D

I find your logic to be juvenile, short-sighted and skewed beyond comprehension.  If you think 60's music was all happy/skippy and balm for the ills of the time, you were obviously NOT listening to the radio (or would rather have stuck your head in the sand to the anti-war, anti-establishment music of the time).  I cannot even get into the Blues discussion with you, as there is no other form of music that loves to wallow in its' own misery more; hence the name. 

I think of "rock and roll" as being young and rebellious and a sign of the times(as most of the "rock" stars of their day were).  I mean, you can listen to a pretty Brett Michaels sing "Unskinny Bop" and laugh about how how everything's going to be okay just as long as nobody actually mentions that everything's not ok.

Finally, you may use words such as begat, however, I still believe you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Ah yes, the positivity of Jim Hendrix, Janice Joplin,the Sex Pistols, The Ramones, the list goes on and on. Yes, all positive indeed. Come on now, every generation has it's complaint rock. I, in fact love it because it is at least more honest than happy dippy everythings great mentality. And in all of the examples above, these were the musicians who blazed a new trail- and I absolutely love because they had the b@lls to say what they thought was wrong with the world. They were just voicing what some were feeling.

no disagreement, sometimes balm is needed-but who makes the decision of what the balm is? It is different for everyone.

and now you are generalizing again. If you want to win effective argument, give some solid examples. Generalizing just tends to make a person sound angry..I have been guilty of it myself a time or three.  ;D


Love this!  You were typing as I was...

Just what was so true about Grunge lyrics?

Yes I'm serious, look at the optimism and idealism of 60's and 80's having a positive effect on society's attitude, does it not stand to reason that the fatalism and depressivism(lacking a better word) of 90's music would have a negative effect? And I stand by the fact that music can and should be a balm for the ills of the world. In fact, that is what the negro spiritual was intended for, which evolved into gospel music, which in turn begat Blues(the purest example of music being a balm, the whole point of the genre is a means of overcoming negativity!), Jazz(the greatest art form ever created by Americans), and yes, ultimately, Rock & Roll! Therefore, Grunge is a flat-out contradiction of what Rock and its sister genres are supposed to be. Now who's not thinking like a big girl?

Your Pal,
Doc
8)


1. Grunge was one genre of music.  You act like Grunge was the only music available in the 90's!  There was plenty of upbeat music - pop and hip hop were full of happy tunes! 

2. Why is Blues the purest example of being a balm, but Grunge is a soul sucking earth destroyer?  Aren't they, in fact, very similar?  (Maybe not in style, but in substance.) 

3.  Rock and Roll has glorified drug use for 40 years.  Get real.

4. I am a member of generation x.  I'm not a slacker.  I never chose to wallow in anyone's basement.  I have an excellent job, am educated, and am a very upward and mobile member of society, as are most of my friends from that time. 

Sounds to me like you never quite got out of the 80's.  Glam rock was on its way out long before Grunge came into play. 

1. Grunge was one genre of music.  You act like Grunge was the only music available in the 90's!  There was plenty of upbeat music - pop and hip hop were full of happy tunes! 

2. Why is Blues the purest example of being a balm, but Grunge is a soul sucking earth destroyer?  Aren't they, in fact, very similar?  (Maybe not in style, but in substance.) 

3.  Rock and Roll has glorified drug use for 40 years.  Get real.

4. I am a member of generation x.  I'm not a slacker.  I never chose to wallow in anyone's basement.  I have an excellent job, am educated, and am a very upward and mobile member of society, as are most of my friends from that time. 


I never intended to generalize or say that all music of any one time was the same. However, I am stating these points:

1. Grunge was the dominant genre of the early-to-mid-90's, at least once the holdovers of the 80's began to slow down, and often grunge fans acted like no other music had any merit. Not even the Punks and New Wavers of a decade before so arrogantly mocked all preceding genres that way, they only announced the end of the 70's by shouting "DISCO SUCKS!" And hip-hop was hardly an acceptable alternative genre, its only theme often seemed to be male promiscuity and female objectification.

2. The overall theme of Blues is to use their performance as a force for overcoming adversity. By contrast, Grunge's overall theme was not to fight adversity, but to simply give up. Note that the Blues came from the Mississippi Delta and the segregated South, where former slaves and those denied right by Jim Crow laws and the like had actual, deep-seated problems to complain about in their music. None of this fits with life in late-20th-Century Seattle, so except for the recession, which did not befall America until 1990, what exactly did these teenagers have to gripe about? That's the difference.

3. Drugs have been around for centuries(Alcohol, Opium, Tobacco, Heroin, Marijuana, have all been commodities as long as there has been international trade.), as opposed to Rock & Roll, which has barely been in existence for half of one. The stars and fans using drugs is not a symbol of Rock, but of rebellion, which is what Rock became the soundtrack of in the 60's.

4. While the 1960's had plenty of upbeat songs(The Beach Boys and other groups were even classified, at times, into a genre called 'Sunshine Pop'), I do concede that there was plenty of protest music, but unlike grunge, it was designed to send a message to its audience to stand up and fight for change, which Grunge does not. The legacy of protest groups like Jefferson Airplane, The Edwin Starr, and CSNY carried into the 70's and 80's in the recordings of The Eagles, Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band, John(Cougar) Mellencamp, and especially U2. Furthermore, I do not discount the tormented psychedelic howls of Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and Jim Morrison(although not all of their songs sounded that way). But bear in mind, their music was very often Blues-Based, and the message was mostly the same as the protest music, simply written in a different genre.

JFTR, Ash, I am glad you did not turn out a slacker like so many others of your generation. I am not in that age group, but the one who came just before it, the high-tech generation of the 80's, so yes, I do love the music and will not apologize for it. To me, the music of my decade had a variety that I found very much missing from that of the 90's, which I hope explains why it remains my favorite music to this day. I trust my point of view is much clearer now.

Your Pal,
Doc
;)

My take on all this:

1.) Kurt Cobain did not kill 1980's hair metal. 1980's hair metal died because by 1991 it had become so bloated and excessive that it was utterly ridiculous by that point.

IMO, these two things, more than anything, killed hair metal:

Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjyZKfdwlng

I mean really. Does that not sound like a nursery rhyme? ::)


Exhibit B:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_CPu9nbMj0

Yeah, nice hair, CC. I never liked Poison, not even back then, and why they have an almost iconic status today is a complete mystery to me. It's probably because, while Bret Michaels may be a bad singer and an even worse songwriter, he's also a stone-cold genius when it comes to marketing himself (and his band).

Grunge came along because it was time for a change. There was a word for bands like Poison and Warrant (which was one of the best slang terms of the 1980's and it's a shame it's not still in wide use today): poseur. Hair metal always seemed so phony and manufactured to me, and what attracted me to grunge (at least the first wave) was that it seemed so much more real and honest.


2.) GOOD 1980's metal bands did not all die out in the '90s. Metallica and Megadeth had much greater commercial success throughout the 1990's then they ever did in the 1980's.


3.) Kurt Cobain is such a bastard. After all, not only did he go around ordering kids to use drugs but he also stole the spotlight from such paragons of virtuous, clean living as Motley Crue and Guns N' Roses and teetotalers like Metallica and Megadeth. ::)

Nice weather we are having, huh?



Cat

Nice weather we are having, huh?

Cat

Oh yes, mostly sarcastic and high condescension with a 50% chance of scattered thought and eloquence!
I will never understand why my analytical and expressive posts are constantly met with mockery and derision. Plus I never claimed to be a rabid fan of hair metal, why they focus on that, when I stated that ALL genres of pre-Nirvana music were verbally routed to the trash by Grunge-lovers, is beyond my reasoning. No band except the Clash ever had such a narcissistic streak(The ONLY Band That MATTERS!?), yet Grunge seemed to be ridiculously over-glorified by those who listened to it.

Your Pal,
Doc
8)

Oh yes, mostly sarcastic and high condescension with a 50% chance of scattered thought and eloquence!
I will never understand why my analytical and expressive posts are constantly met with mockery and derision. Plus I never claimed to be a rabid fan of hair metal, why they focus on that, when I stated that ALL genres of pre-Nirvana music were verbally routed to the trash by Grunge-lovers, is beyond my reasoning. No band except the Clash ever had such a narcissistic streak(The ONLY Band That MATTERS!?), yet Grunge seemed to be ridiculously over-glorified by those who listened to it.

Your Pal,
Doc
8)


I hear what you are saying. You don't like Nirvana and grunge. As I said earlier, neither do I. So I chose not to listen to it. No need to trash and insult those who like it (over various posts). No need to fudge people who didn't like "hair bands". That's not the way to make friends, is it? I think you over estimate Nirvana's effect on music, really.  It was the style at that time. You can either chose to listen to it, or not, that's all really. What if someone would have posted this (basically using your words):

"when I stated that ALL genres of 70s music were verbally routed to the trash by 80s music lovers, is beyond my reasoning. No band except the The Beatles ever had such a narcissistic streak(The ONLY Band That MATTERS!?), yet 80s music seemed to be ridiculously over-glorified by those who listened to it."

Would you like that?  (And yes, I know the Beatles were in the 60s, not the 70s)
(At least you aren't using unhappy faces now. An improvement). :)

I am not trashing any people, warped, simply the attitude I saw and experienced firsthand. BTW, I am certainly not here to make enemies, although others seem to be.

Besides, not all genres of 70's music were told to drop dead by early 80's music fans, only the overbloated genre of Disco suffered that fate, as possibly hair metal became overblown. And the Beatles were never narcissistic that I know of. John's "bigger than Jesus" quote was merely a comment on the attitudes of society at that time, and anti-rock bigots in America printed it light-years out of context. But I can't say for certain, for I did not join the party until the mid-70's.

Thank you for understanding my POV and sparing me the usual sarcasm.

Your Pal,
Doc
;)

2. The overall theme of Blues is to use their performance as a force for overcoming adversity. By contrast, Grunge's overall theme was not to fight adversity, but to simply give up. Note that the Blues came from the Mississippi Delta and the segregated South, where former slaves and those denied right by Jim Crow laws and the like had actual, deep-seated problems to complain about in their music. None of this fits with life in late-20th-Century Seattle, so except for the recession, which did not befall America until 1990, what exactly did these teenagers have to gripe about? That's the difference.


Y'know, I can buy the first part of that argument.  But as an Xer myself, I'll argue that what the kids of the 90s did have to gripe about was their yuppie parents.  Hippies became yuppies.  Their spawn were the Preppies.  I'll segue to this 1982 video game (or the 1984 sequel):

At $30 1982 dollars, that game probably cost $75-90 in 2012 dollars, and "people who owned personal computers with disk drives instead of cassette drives" in 1982 had already had their parents drop the $2000-5000 in 2012 dollars on the underlying computer.

http://www.ivy-style.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/preppie_ai_k7.jpg

I wasn't a preppie, and I wasn't a big fan of grunge either.  But the yuppie-parent/preppie-child was so prevalent in 1982 that people were making parodies of Frogger to make fun of it.  For anyone who grew up against cultural backdrop, simply giving up (as you put it) was by 1992 a profoundly rebellious act.

BTW, I am certainly not here to make enemies, although others seem to be.


Your Pal,
Doc
;)


I'm afraid you don't understand, doc. As someone who has read the posts here and is a bystander, it's you who is pushing people away with your posts. From my point of view, you seem to be the one trying to "not make" friends but push people away. Maybe that was not your intention, but that's the way it happened. It happened when you fudged ladybug for reason I (and others) cannnot understand.

1)  First, Ladybug  posted "not soon enough" when the question was posed to her about "When did the big hair era end". So, you fudged her. That makes friends?  And just like Ash, I can't believe you fudged ladybug for her post.
2) You posted "i]That sounds about right. Kurt Cobain will probably be forever hated by 80's fans everywhere. At least some great bands of the 80's survived the toxic waste flood that was grunge!"  I'm an 80s fand, don't hate Cobain. Didn't even know who he was until after he died. And then you pretty much insult anyone who likes grunge. That makes friends?
3) You posted" instead of giving birth to the Slacker Generation(what else can you call Generation X, now that their time has come and gone!?). ]"    So now you have lumped all of generation x as slackers. That makes friends?
4) "JFTR, Ash, I am glad you did not turn out a slacker like so many others of your generation. I am not in that age group, but the one who came just before it, the high-tech generation of the 80's, so yes, I do love the music and will not apologize for it. To me, the music of my decade had a variety that I found very much missing from that of the 90's, which I hope explains why it remains my favorite music to this day. I trust my point of view is much clearer now.

Other than Ash, you just insulted the whole generation X again.  :-[

Your approach could have been what I have added in bold. You can love the 80s music, yes, it was different from the 90s. And it can remain your favorite music to this day.  That's all good. You have told people why you like 80s music. You could have stopped there and I guess everyone would be happy with your post. What you could have avoided is shooting down, (IMO in an emotional way); grunge, nirvana and Generation x. And fudging ladybug because she's not fond of big hair (or the big hair days). 

I hope this helps a bit.

I am not trashing any people, warped, simply the attitude I saw and experienced firsthand. BTW, I am certainly not here to make enemies, although others seem to be.

Besides, not all genres of 70's music were told to drop dead by early 80's music fans, only the overbloated genre of Disco suffered that fate, as possibly hair metal became overblown. And the Beatles were never narcissistic that I know of. John's "bigger than Jesus" quote was merely a comment on the attitudes of society at that time, and anti-rock bigots in America printed it light-years out of context. But I can't say for certain, for I did not join the party until the mid-70's.

Thank you for understanding my POV and sparing me the usual sarcasm.

Your Pal,
Doc
;)




No Doc, Warped is correct.  I posted what I considered to be a funny quote about big awful hair but you took it to this really deep place in your head.  I would apologize, as I am a compassionate person, but I said nothing to offend, so you'll have to file it under "tough noogies for you".

The irony of all of your 90's hating is that YOU are the one who seems to have become disenfranchised and are living in a bubble of what once was.  You are blaming America's inevitable downswing on one genre of music and then blather on about other eras to baffle me with bullsh*t that I'm not buying.  Tough noogies for you.

Lastly:  2 fudges!  Really?  Good thing I'm all drugged up (as it says I should be in the Grunge handbook), or those smites would really hurt.  Luckily, my fleeting moments of clarity and the fact that Soundgarden are back together have kept me from killing myself (as it says I should in the Grunge handbook).  Tough noogies for you!

I always thought the impact of Grunge was over-stated compared to the equally strong and longer-enduring influence of Hip Hop anyways.

Well damn. I've constructed 15 different responses and subsequently forgotten them all since getting to the end.

I'm not sure why grunge has to be the end all be all of the 90s. I for one never heard a Nirvana song until they played one in Cold Case.  I don't blame the music for the decline of civilization or the devolution of society. I blame parenting....always have/always will. Not saying all parents ruin their kids just saying that at some point this everyone has to win, let's not teach kids self sufficient attitude is what's breaking America. It's worse now more than ever but that's a different issue. I think 80s children felt smothered by their parents and 90s teens wanted to break as far away from their parents as the could. They found Grunge, grunge did not find them. As someone said it filled a need.  Basic rule of supply & demand....

I find it interesting that not once did doc reply to meesa's posts. They were spot on. Hard to refute a solid argument eh?  Oh wait....Ash & Ladybug had solid arguments but you jumped all over them. I'm with warped on this one...you, doc, definately seek out enemies. You invite them into your world through your posts. Then, when they step up and show themselves you throw up your hands and say 'what did I do?'  From my pov you've been the primary instigator not the innocent victim you profess to be.

Oh, and since you can follow the trail of evolution from the negro spiritual to rock & roll how can you hate on the rap I mean rap is great grandson of blues & r&b. I'm not talking about booty rap. Booty rap is the 80s hair bands of rap. It's a bunch of noise about nothing important.

I always thought the impact of Grunge was over-stated compared to the equally strong and longer-enduring influence of Hip Hop anyways.


This may be the only thing we ever agree on.

Oh yes, mostly sarcastic and high condescension with a 50% chance of scattered thought and eloquence!
I will never understand why my analytical and expressive posts are constantly met with mockery and derision. Plus I never claimed to be a rabid fan of hair metal, why they focus on that, when I stated that ALL genres of pre-Nirvana music were verbally routed to the trash by Grunge-lovers, is beyond my reasoning. No band except the Clash ever had such a narcissistic streak(The ONLY Band That MATTERS!?), yet Grunge seemed to be ridiculously over-glorified by those who listened to it.

Your Pal,
Doc
8)



You TOTALLY missed the purpose of my post. Most people around here KNOW that I usually post that when there is an argument going. Why do I post it? I am hoping that it will give people a laugh so they will LIGHTEN UP!!! It was NOT directed at ANYONE!


As for the argument, I have not jumped in because the truth be known, I do not like heavy metal, grunge, hip hop, or rap. I do not listen to it and do not know anything about it to add to the argument. If people like that music, that is their right.  But my question is....


What do all of these genres have to do as to WHEN the Big Hair era ended? I totally don't understand how the start of a genre leads to fashion. To me, that is comparing apples and oranges. 



Cat

You TOTALLY missed the purpose of my post. Most people around here KNOW that I usually post that when there is an argument going. Why do I post it? I am hoping that it will give people a laugh so they will LIGHTEN UP!!! It was NOT directed at ANYONE!

As for the argument, I have not jumped in because the truth be known, I do not like heavy metal, grunge, hip hop, or rap. I do not listen to it and do not know anything about it to add to the argument. If people like that music, that is their right.  But my question is....


What do all of these genres have to do as to WHEN the Big Hair era ended? I totally don't understand how the start of a genre leads to fashion. To me, that is comparing apples and oranges. 

Cat

You may be right, Cat. But one does often seem to influence the other. Young people have been dressing like their favorite rockstar since one kid wanted to be Elvis for Halloween!

And warped is correct, I never set out to trash anyone or make enemies, let alone have to post analysis after reworded analysis trying to clarify my view of things. So my apologies to ladybug. I do agree with snoz(this is rare, but not a first), because even I hear the echoes of James Brown and Bob Marley in Old-School Rap like Run-DMC and M.C. Hammer. However, Gangsta Rap disgraced the good name of R&B the way it glorifies violence, as does booty rap, a.k.a. Hip-Hop, does the same with its degradation of women. So frankly, those two are no better than Grunge in my book.

Still, look at the philosophy of Grunge. Your parents were so successful and wanted you to have a better life(as hippies and yuppies), that you rebelled by taking drugs you knew were deadly and gambling with your future by starting a band instead of going to college? Didn't any of them notice that the youth revolution back in the 60's mostly began in COLLEGES? It simply does not seem very thought-out to me. That's my final word on why I don't like Grunge, and I hope we all can now agree to disagree and discuss other topics on friendlier terms.

Your Pal,
Doc
8)

My take on all this:

1.) Kurt Cobain did not kill 1980's hair metal. 1980's hair metal died because by 1991 it had become so bloated and excessive that it was utterly ridiculous by that point.

IMO, these two things, more than anything, killed hair metal:

Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjyZKfdwlng

I mean really. Does that not sound like a nursery rhyme? ::)


Exhibit B:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_CPu9nbMj0

Yeah, nice hair, CC. I never liked Poison, not even back then, and why they have an almost iconic status today is a complete mystery to me. It's probably because, while Bret Michaels may be a bad singer and an even worse songwriter, he's also a stone-cold genius when it comes to marketing himself (and his band).

Grunge came along because it was time for a change. There was a word for bands like Poison and Warrant (which was one of the best slang terms of the 1980's and it's a shame it's not still in wide use today): poseur. Hair metal always seemed so phony and manufactured to me, and what attracted me to grunge (at least the first wave) was that it seemed so much more real and honest.


2.) GOOD 1980's metal bands did not all die out in the '90s. Metallica and Megadeth had much greater commercial success throughout the 1990's then they ever did in the 1980's.


3.) Kurt Cobain is such a bastard. After all, not only did he go around ordering kids to use drugs but he also stole the spotlight from such paragons of virtuous, clean living as Motley Crue and Guns N' Roses and teetotalers like Metallica and Megadeth. ::)


I don't think Warrant killed hair metal, I think they rocked at the time. hair metal was still cool.

My take on all this:

1.) Kurt Cobain did not kill 1980's hair metal. 1980's hair metal died because by 1991 it had become so bloated and excessive that it was utterly ridiculous by that point.

IMO, these two things, more than anything, killed hair metal:

Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjyZKfdwlng

I mean really. Does that not sound like a nursery rhyme? ::)


Exhibit B:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_CPu9nbMj0

Yeah, nice hair, CC. I never liked Poison, not even back then, and why they have an almost iconic status today is a complete mystery to me. It's probably because, while Bret Michaels may be a bad singer and an even worse songwriter, he's also a stone-cold genius when it comes to marketing himself (and his band).

Grunge came along because it was time for a change. There was a word for bands like Poison and Warrant (which was one of the best slang terms of the 1980's and it's a shame it's not still in wide use today): poseur. Hair metal always seemed so phony and manufactured to me, and what attracted me to grunge (at least the first wave) was that it seemed so much more real and honest.


2.) GOOD 1980's metal bands did not all die out in the '90s. Metallica and Megadeth had much greater commercial success throughout the 1990's then they ever did in the 1980's.


3.) Kurt Cobain is such a bastard. After all, not only did he go around ordering kids to use drugs but he also stole the spotlight from such paragons of virtuous, clean living as Motley Crue and Guns N' Roses and teetotalers like Metallica and Megadeth. ::)


I don't think Warrant killed hair metal anymore than I think Kurt Cobain went around ordering kids to use drugs.  And Megadeth were a bunch of drunks back in the day.  That was a major reason why Dave Mustaine  was fired from Metallica.  So were Guns "N Roses.

I attended a concert in 2009, that completely sold out, and was totally awesome.

Who were the artists?

Poison
Def Leppard
Cheap Trick

Hair metal never really went away.  Times change.  People change.  Music evolves.  Just because I liked grunge doesn't mean I don't like other genres as well.  I just think that making a blanket statement about anything or anyone is a bad idea.

Times change.  People change.  Music evolves.

You got that right.

Like, Hi,

I turned 18 during 1997, and, today, I am nostalgic for both the 1980s AND the 1990s.  I want to have Mall Bangs, but I want to take them to an entirely new, shocking level by tweaking their style slightly.  I also want to be just slightly Goth.  I feel as though I sort of missed out on the most extreme aspects of both the 1980s and the 1990s, and I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with glorifying certain aspects of the past.

For one thing, I feel as though ever since the 2000s hit, Americans have been rehashing past fashion trends, and that the rehashes have never lived up to their original incarnations. 

During college, I used to buy clothes from Goodwill, and I used to wear them, too (Ie: A heavy, red, cheerleading-type skirt and high-heeled, black boots with fake fur at the top, etc.).  I won a Disco dancing contest during college. I memorized Moon Unit Zappa's entire "Valley Girl" speech, and I'd recite it for all who would care to listen to me.  I could actually call myself "The Disco Valley Goth", because I am in love with certain aspects of the 1970s, the 1980s, and the 1990s!  Then again, one of my college hobbies was collecting advertisements from past eras!
8)

Times change.  People change.  Music evolves.

Yup you're definitely right about that.  :)

The hair was the biggest in 1987. Go further out from the year, and it becomes increasingly less prevalent.

Hair was still huge in 1990 and 1991. It was also still prevalent in 1992. By '93 it was on its way out. And by 1994 was pretty much out of style!

As for why big hair went out of fashion, I think people wanted a change. Don't forget people had been styling their hair in the 60s, 70s, AND the 80s. So my guess is because people just wanted a more natural look. A look that will last for a long time in my opinion.

and now we're all balding.

and now we're all balding.


Not all of us :P

and now we're all balding.


http://www.photoshoppix.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/bald-man2.jpg

Like, Hi, Fer Shurr, 80sfan,

OMG!  LOL!  I may never stop laughing!
;D



http://www.photoshoppix.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/bald-man2.jpg

Not all of us :P


Ok, should I say "thinning"?  ::)

;D

There is no more "big hair", It's rare now if you could find it in some communities.

http://www.photoshoppix.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/bald-man2.jpg


;D

Ok, should I say "thinning"?  ::)




Again, not all of us.  I still have the same thickness of hair as I did in high school. 

Ok, should I say "thinning"?  ::)

;D

There is no more "big hair", It's rare now if you could find it in some communities.


Not me. If anything my hair is "thicker"




Again, not all of us.  I still have the same thickness of hair as I did in high school.


O0

I had a chance to look at yearbooks once from the early 90s and I did a bit of research.

In 1993, about 70% of people had straight hair. There were a few who had big and I'm thinking they just needed time to 'catch up'.

The pictures from 1994 though, pretty much EVERYONE had straight hair. I'm sure there were a few big haired people in there, but at least 98% of people looked like they could come from 2013.

Again, not all of us.  I still have the same thickness of hair as I did in high school.


I don't have much myself on top.

http://www.photoshoppix.com/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10008/bald-man2.jpg



;D

When did the "no hair" era end?

Probably about 1992, around the same time the hot-pink faze of the 80's ended.

P.S. I think decadist should be banned, more so than Decadeologist.

It never ended in Texas  :P

It never ended in Texas  :P


;D

I'm going to have to say about 1991.

Wild 80's big hair: It was much less common in the mainstream by the early 90's. It was still common for average people, though. By the mid-90's, it was mostly totally gone mainstream wise, dying down elsewhere. By the late 90's, almost no one had it.

With men, I'd say mullets were on the way out by 1994 or so. With women, big poofy hair was pretty much dead by 1995.

Here's a bunch of old Cowboys cheerleaders photos, you'll notice that most of the hairstyles in the 1990-93 pics were still pretty big.

http://www.dallascowboyscheerleaders.com/squad/2012-squad/

Wild 80's big hair: It was much less common in the mainstream by the early 90's. It was still common for average people, though. By the mid-90's, it was mostly totally gone mainstream wise, dying down elsewhere. By the late 90's, almost no one had it.



Weren't they worried about losing their hair in the 90's? ???

With men, I'd say mullets were on the way out by 1994 or so. With women, big poofy hair was pretty much dead by 1995.

Here's a bunch of old Cowboys cheerleaders photos, you'll notice that most of the hairstyles in the 1990-93 pics were still pretty big.

http://www.dallascowboyscheerleaders.com/squad/2012-squad/


Cool link, thanks.

Looking at those pics:

Some big hair, but really started taking over in 1984. By 1988, it's completely out of control.

1993, things start to pull back. 1996, the 80's hair is totally gone.

The hair starts to get really flat around 2000.

2005, especially 2006 is when the wavy and wavy curls look comes in.

Cool link, thanks.

Looking at those pics:

Some big hair, but really started taking over in 1984. By 1988, it's completely out of control.

1993, things start to pull back. 1996, the 80's hair is totally gone.

The hair starts to get really flat around 2000.

2005, especially 2006 is when the wavy and wavy curls look comes in.


I can see by the photos that during the late 70's big hair was in (around 1979-1980) then the early to mid 80's, it slowly ended.

With men, I'd say mullets were on the way out by 1994 or so. With women, big poofy hair was pretty much dead by 1995.

Here's a bunch of old Cowboys cheerleaders photos, you'll notice that most of the hairstyles in the 1990-93 pics were still pretty big.

http://www.dallascowboyscheerleaders.com/squad/2012-squad/


Cool find!

I would say by late 1989 or 1990 it was out of fashion for actresses and models, but was still very common among everyday women as late as 1994. Based on what I've seen in movies and pictures not from personal memory.