When I think back to my youth (i.e. mid 80s-mid 90s or whatever) I realized that's one of the biggest differences. I kinda resent how rappers began to replace rockers circa 1995 as the "stereotypical cool people" among the mainstream and white suburban kids.

As a kid I remember dudes like Bill & Ted, Spicoli, or Wayne & Garth all the time (albeit more "normal" and not quite that exaggerated! ;D ) and I thought they were so cool. When you'd go into a fast food place, supermarket or a video store, there'd be cute Valley Girl type chicks or surfer/rocker guys working there. By the time I was a teen/adult, the atmosphere was already changing and that can be tough to take.

Sure, there'll always be new generations of rockers (alot of classic rock is pretty timeless), and people who grew up with it during the '60s-90s usually stick with it too (though some ease up on it as they grow older), but its clearly no longer the majority. I feel like its one less thing I'm bound to have in common with people.

Yeah, i guess everything has its end, but it is sad to see it go. The good news is, rap is dying too. :)

Yeah, i guess everything has its end, but it is sad to see it go. The good news is, rap is dying too. :)


Yeah, I've noticed that too luckily. Anyone blatantly acting like a gangsta/wigger now is beginning to look like a silly 90s/00s caricature who can't keep up with the times (kinda like how anyone hanging onto long hair or acting like an 80s rocker did then).

Its just bizarre how I experienced a major change in the world by the time I was only 15 with the rock to rap demographic shift.

http://mulevariations.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/poison_pic.jpg

I miss when rockers sported long hair and makeup.

http://mulevariations.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/poison_pic.jpg

I miss when rockers sported long hair and makeup.


Poison made pretty girls. ;D  I love that genre of music though.  And they are still cool.  Heck, most of them still tour and draw a good sized crowd of all ages.  One of the girls I work with is 24 and she wants to go to the Poison/Def Leppard concert this summer. 

You resent it?  That is strange, they are all fads, like flappers, zoot suits, beatniks, hippies, glam, hip hop.  There isn't anything to resent, it's just fads and fashion pure and simple, something else will come along to replace it.  Always has, always will.

http://mulevariations.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/poison_pic.jpg

I miss when rockers sported long hair and makeup.


Who says they still don't?


Steel Panther, 2009

http://fancore.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/steel-panther.jpg

You resent it?  That is strange, they are all fads, like flappers, zoot suits, beatniks, hippies, glam, hip hop.  There isn't anything to resent, it's just fads and fashion pure and simple, something else will come along to replace it.  Always has, always will.


I think you're missing the point. ;)

You can't deny that in the past 15-20 years, rap and rap-influenced pop music is the main thing that's "cool" among the youth and the mainstream media.

It may not be the more cutting edge, "gangsta" stuff about street life now, and more about partying in the club (stuff like Lil Wayne or kiddie crap like Nicki Minaj or Chris Brown), but its still the standard template for the most music kids (and alot of younger adults in their 20s, even 30s) listen to.

You still hear the thumping bass coming from cars all the time.

My point is.. for many years, rock was the cool youth music and this was reflected in how people looked, acted, talked and even dressed (something pop and rap has now, like all the urban slang people use). It was something I kinda took for granted as a kid, and I don't like how it faded so fast.

See, I only got to experience the last maybe 8-10 years where rock was king, and even that was only as a little kid or tween or at the most, a very young teen. I never got to have any older teenage or adult life where that was popular. I got so sick of wiggers and stuff among my friends or peer groups. Even as an adult I can feel a gap between some people around my age, like if they don't appreciate The Beatles.

Poison made pretty girls. ;D  I love that genre of music though.  And they are still cool.  Heck, most of them still tour and draw a good sized crowd of all ages.  One of the girls I work with is 24 and she wants to go to the Poison/Def Leppard concert this summer.


But why did rockers want to act like girls? Why was it so popular? ???

But why did rockers want to act like girls? Why was it so popular? ???


They didn't act like girls...they just had the big hair and makeup.  I have no idea why it was popular.  All I know is I loved the music.

They didn't act like girls...they just had the big hair and makeup.  I have no idea why it was popular.  All I know is I loved the music.


Yeah, I think Motley Crue were the first to do it, and they were the hardest rocking of all the LA hair bands imo.

They didn't act like girls...they just had the big hair and makeup.  I have no idea why it was popular.  All I know is I loved the music.


Me too It was enjoyable.

Yeah, I think Motley Crue were the first to do it, and they were the hardest rocking of all the LA hair bands imo.


Nooooooooooo! David Bowie was doing it way back in 1972!  :o :o :o

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/01/article-2068601-01AFDEEA00000578-310_306x433.jpg

I think you're missing the point. ;)

You can't deny that in the past 15-20 years, rap and rap-influenced pop music is the main thing that's "cool" among the youth and the mainstream media.

It may not be the more cutting edge, "gangsta" stuff about street life now, and more about partying in the club (stuff like Lil Wayne or kiddie crap like Nicki Minaj or Chris Brown), but its still the standard template for the most music kids (and alot of younger adults in their 20s, even 30s) listen to.

You still hear the thumping bass coming from cars all the time.

My point is.. for many years, rock was the cool youth music and this was reflected in how people looked, acted, talked and even dressed (something pop and rap has now, like all the urban slang people use). It was something I kinda took for granted as a kid, and I don't like how it faded so fast.

See, I only got to experience the last maybe 8-10 years where rock was king, and even that was only as a little kid or tween or at the most, a very young teen. I never got to have any older teenage or adult life where that was popular. I got so sick of wiggers and stuff among my friends or peer groups. Even as an adult I can feel a gap between some people around my age, like if they don't appreciate The Beatles.


I have no idea what the "cool" music is or isn't.  I like Lil Wayne AND Poison.  Listen to what you like and don't worry about what's cool or not.  Seriously. 

And Danoota didn't miss the point at all.  She hit it right on the head.  Maybe you should re-read her post.

And lastly, hair metal didn't fade away.  It self-destructed. 

Nooooooooooo! David Bowie was doing it way back in 1972!  :o :o :o

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/01/article-2068601-01AFDEEA00000578-310_306x433.jpg


Wasn't that called glam at the time? ???

And lastly, hair metal didn't fade away.  It self-destructed.

along with the drugs booze and hot women.

I have no idea what the "cool" music is or isn't.  I like Lil Wayne AND Poison.  Listen to what you like and don't worry about what's cool or not.  Seriously. 

And Danoota didn't miss the point at all.  She hit it right on the head.  Maybe you should re-read her post.

And lastly, hair metal didn't fade away.  It self-destructed.



I think he meant 'popular music', like the kind of music 15 year olds play at parties and share with their friends. Pretty much 'mainstream' or 'Top 40' music.

You resent it?  That is strange, they are all fads, like flappers, zoot suits, beatniks, hippies, glam, hip hop.  There isn't anything to resent, it's just fads and fashion pure and simple, something else will come along to replace it.  Always has, always will.


What's wrong with not liking a certain type of style of music or fashion that goes with the music? If he doesn't like rap or white guys trying to talk black, what's wrong with that? He can 'resent' what he wants. He can like or dislike anything he wants. I don't understand why you're questioning why he feels a certain way about something. I'm sure there are types of fashion of music you prefer over others and if you happen to 'resent' something then I wouldn't hold it against you.

I have no idea what the "cool" music is or isn't.  I like Lil Wayne AND Poison. Listen to what you like and don't worry about what's cool or not.  Seriously.  And Danoota didn't miss the point at all.  She hit it right on the head.  Maybe you should re-read her post.

And lastly, hair metal didn't fade away.  It self-destructed.


He's just making a thread to share his thoughts and/or ideas. Why are you being so defensive? It's not like he's verbally attacking your mother.  ???

I think he meant 'popular music', like the kind of music 15 year olds play at parties and share with their friends. Pretty much 'mainstream' or 'Top 40' music.


the young kids today listen to a lot of Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars, Adele and all others.

the young kids today listen to a lot of Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars, Adele and all others.


Adele is HUGE right now.  :D

Adele is HUGE right now.  :D


I must listen to her one day when I get the chance.

I do and I don't.

I remember other kids thinking rockers were the cool people in the seventies, but to me rock -- as in classic rock -- was too familiar to enchant me.  My family had Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Janis Joplin, Doors, Pink Floyd, and all those kinds of records.  I heard it constantly in my house. 

New Wave came along and that was "cool" because it was edgy and new. 

Before MTV a lot of this stuff didn't get much airplay outside the big cities.  Your brother would come home from college in Boston with Elvis Costello, the B-52's, Talking Heads, Devo, X-Ray Spex or what have you.  Wow!  This is...different!
8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SigRPr7OS84

(It also gave fat girls and nerds a home in rock 'n roll!)

rockers are still cool people, they just don't dress up in makeup anymore.

I think he meant 'popular music', like the kind of music 15 year olds play at parties and share with their friends. Pretty much 'mainstream' or 'Top 40' music.


Thanks man, yeah that's what I meant. Hope there's no hard feelings. :)

Rock just hasn't been cool in the mainstream for the last 15 years or so (even if many people still listen to it). Rap wouldn't be so bad (and I actually like a couple songs) if it didn't dominate everything. Thankfully it seems to be fading away with more electropop now though!

Thanks man, yeah that's what I meant. Hope there's no hard feelings. :)

Rock just hasn't been cool in the mainstream for the last 15 years or so (even if many people still listen to it). Rap wouldn't be so bad (and I actually like a couple songs) if it didn't dominate everything. Thankfully it seems to be fading away with more electropop now though!


Right, rap seems to be more mainstream now.

Thanks man, yeah that's what I meant. Hope there's no hard feelings. :)

Rock just hasn't been cool in the mainstream for the last 15 years or so (even if many people still listen to it). Rap wouldn't be so bad (and I actually like a couple songs) if it didn't dominate everything. Thankfully it seems to be fading away with more electropop now though!


'Cool' music is something kids age 12 to 25 usually try to play at parties. Of course that's just a generalization.  :D

I think rap and rock are at about the same level really...Both are more just ingrained parts of culture now than being anything rebellious. Rock/Rock culture is not dead, nor is Rap or Rap culture...Actually I think with the comeback of early 90s trends you could more easily get away dressing like an early 90s rocker (IE denim or plaid) than you could get away with dressing like a mid 00s "wigger". I find that RAP--Of the 50 Cent variety--seems to be now on par with where Heavy Metal was after Grunge...Still around in circles that love it, but not the raw, rebellious trend.

Am I the only person that thinks the word "wigger" is offensive?

Because it is.

I know it means a white person trying to act like a black person, but it is using the N-word in a round about way.  And it isn't flattering to either race. 

It is rather offensive.

Am I the only person that thinks the word "wigger" is offensive?

Because it is.

I know it means a white person trying to act like a black person, but it is using the N-word in a round about way.  And it isn't flattering to either race.


I've heard of the word "wigger" but wasn't sure what it meant.  ???

Poison made pretty girls. ;D  I love that genre of music though.  And they are still cool.  Heck, most of them still tour and draw a good sized crowd of all ages.  One of the girls I work with is 24 and she wants to go to the Poison/Def Leppard concert this summer.


I've seen Poison twice in 2006 and 2009 and they were good both times.

rockers always are cool

for example in the soundtrack of any new movie almost always there are a rock song from decades ago but almost never put a pop or hip hop song from 5 or 6 years ago.

rockers always are cool

for example in the soundtrack of any new movie almost always there are a rock song from decades ago but almost never put a pop or hip hop song from 5 or 6 years ago.


I agree. Classic rock from the 60s, 70s and even the 80s stands the test of time.

I think rockers are still the cool people. BTW,KISS once in a while still wears makeup.

I've seen Poison twice in 2006 and 2009 and they were good both times.


I saw them in 2009 too - with Def Leppard and Cheap Trick.  AWESOME show.

Am I the only person that thinks the word "wigger" is offensive?

Because it is.

I know it means a white person trying to act like a black person, but it is using the N-word in a round about way.  And it isn't flattering to either race.


Very offensive.  White trying to act black, black trying to act white, that is assuming that all whites "act" a certain way and all blacks "act" a certain way.  WTF. 

Am I the only person that thinks the word "wigger" is offensive?

Because it is.

I know it means a white person trying to act like a black person, but it is using the N-word in a round about way.  And it isn't flattering to either race.


I was JUST thinking this, as I read this post. Seriously, who uses that term anymore? I haven't heard that in many years (thankfully), that is, until now. ::)

I was JUST thinking this, as I read this post. Seriously, who uses that term anymore? I haven't heard that in many years (thankfully), that is, until now. ::)


Nobody.  Thankfully.  I won't defend the term, but for the record I'll point out it was intended to be more offensive to "white guys listening to NWA because they think it makes them hardcore" than it was to "black guys listening to NWA because NWA expressed - in even more brutally honest language unfit for radio - just how lousy life was in the ghetto".

Nobody.  Thankfully.  I won't defend the term, but for the record I'll point out it was intended to be more offensive to "white guys listening to NWA because they think it makes them hardcore" than it was to "black guys listening to NWA because NWA expressed - in even more brutally honest language unfit for radio - just how lousy life was in the ghetto".


The word did seem to apply to rich suburban kids all done up in mall-bought bling with sideways Yankees caps and Public Enemy 'tude. 

Yeeeeahhh Boyeeeezzz!!!

James Carrington Hepplewhite IV, your mother wants you in the limousine this instant and home for your French horn lesson!

Sorry, Homes, gotta go.  Chill.

:P

Yes, but there was already a word for that: Poser.

And it didn't end in "igger."

::)

Yes, but there was already a word for that: Poser.

And it didn't end in "igger."


"Poser" was more like "Hipster".  Calling someone a poser was too ambiguous.  The guy wearing brand-new leather was a poser at a metal or punk show.  The chick who faceplanted into a box of talcum powder and eyeliner was a poser to the goths.  Any yuppie pretending to be cool could be a poser.  The "W" word referred to a yuppie pretending to be a specific type of poser. 

(And as long as this thread's going the way of Richard Pryor vs Chevy Chase in their SNL word association skit, they kinda did earn themselves an epithet stronger than "Honky" :)

The dirty truth about Goth is it was all pose...and we all kinda knew it!

8)

http://www.clanofxymox.com/images/COX1by%20Ed

The dirty truth about Goth is it was all pose...and we all kinda knew it!

8)

http://www.clanofxymox.com/images/COX1by%20Ed


So is the Rocker, the Gangsta, or the hippie  At the end of the day, most people ARE posers, just trying to find a box to fit into.

So is the Rocker, the Gangsta, or the hippie  At the end of the day, most people ARE posers, just trying to find a box to fit into.


Ah, but that's just it.  Rockers, gangstas, hippies, could all be posers.  But only one subgroup could be so self-absorbed as to confuse Ice Cube for Vanilla Ice.  (or "listening to Ice Cube" for actually growing up in an environment in which driving past this intersection means getting hassled for being in another gang's turf, and driving past that intersection means getting hassled by the cops for driving-while-black.)  Ditto for not knowing how the tattoo artist just saved his life with Baskin-Robbins. :)

ui1tUS6Ho-c
  - Offspring, Pretty Fly For A White Guy, from 1994's Smash.

The lyrics and video summarize the phenomenon, but not everybody has three minutes every time they want to explain the concept, so they went with the two-syllable version.

(If you must have a justification, the point of the epithet was to differentiate between the mere poser and a guy who goes out in the modern equivalent of blackface because he's too clueless to see the difference.)

So is the Rocker, the Gangsta, or the hippie  At the end of the day, most people ARE posers, just trying to find a box to fit into.


and one category.

Ah, but that's just it.  Rockers, gangstas, hippies, could all be posers.  But only one subgroup could be so self-absorbed as to confuse Ice Cube for Vanilla Ice.  (or "listening to Ice Cube" for actually growing up in an environment in which driving past this intersection means getting hassled for being in another gang's turf, and driving past that intersection means getting hassled by the cops for driving-while-black.)  Ditto for not knowing how the tattoo artist just saved his life with Baskin-Robbins. :)

ui1tUS6Ho-c
  - Offspring, Pretty Fly For A White Guy, from 1994's Smash.

The lyrics and video summarize the phenomenon, but not everybody has three minutes every time they want to explain the concept, so they went with the two-syllable version.

(If you must have a justification, the point of the epithet was to differentiate between the mere poser and a guy who goes out in the modern equivalent of blackface because he's too clueless to see the difference.)


I KNOW what the term "wigger" means. 
I am quite familiar with the concept AND the formentioned song.
And I still disagree with you.

What I'm saying, is that it's racist.  To both races.  It's B.S.  A person who "fakes" being something else is a poser.  Period.   

And I'm also a little annoyed that you assume that white people can't fathom black culture.  Of course we can never completely understand other people, but most of my boyfriends, and lots of friends, and their families, have been black.  I listen to hip hop and wear Apple Bottom jeans.  I have a "black family" in South Side Chicago, that I love like they are my blood.  And yes, they life in the worst of the worst part, and yes, I know which areas to avoid and even had to get a "pass" because I'm white.  So does that make me a Wigger?  Or does that make me a human being that embraces my American culture - all of it.  So-called "black stereotypes" are about as American as you can get.  So if someone is fake and phony, I will continue to call them a poser.  And I will continue to find the term "wigger" offensive. 

So is the Rocker, the Gangsta, or the hippie  At the end of the day, most people ARE posers, just trying to find a box to fit into.


The hippie movement encompassed everything from fashion to diet to philosophy.  There were plenty of hippie posers, but there were also hippies living off the grid, growing their own food, making their own clothes, and meditating three times a day.

What I'm saying, is that it's racist.  To both races.


Actually, on that, I'm willing to agree.  I think it was intended (amongst overprivileged white guys speaking of their fellow overprivileged white guys) to be more offensive to the white guy, but I can respect the counterargument.  Thanks for your patience in explaining it until I started to figure it out.


And I'm also a little annoyed that you assume that white people can't fathom black culture.  Of course we can never completely understand other people, but most of my boyfriends, and lots of friends, and their families, have been black.  I listen to hip hop and wear Apple Bottom jeans.  I have a "black family" in South Side Chicago, that I love like they are my blood.  And yes, they life in the worst of the worst part, and yes, I know which areas to avoid and even had to get a "pass" because I'm white.  So does that make me a Wigger? 


No, it makes you the opposite.  You're not trying, you're not posing, you actually have contact with another culture - it's not even "another culture"; it's just part of life.  You've actually experienced the "wrong" part of town as something other than a slum tourist.  Anyone who attempts to refer to you as a wannabe does deserve to be corrected.  I'm talking about the stereotypical overprivileged fratboy who's probably never so much as spoken to a black person outside of a DMV office (e.g., the sort of person who doesn't recognize that the implication in my last sentence is the most racist thing in this thread.)

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_zGnH6HWaAi0/TMo7xTLkc8I/AAAAAAAAIPg/JJa0R6Jx43k/preppy_look.jpg

"When you grow up, son, you will rebel by listening to NWA, the same way I rebelled against Grandma by listening to Elvis and Pat Boone!"

People like that really do exist.  In another age and in race-neutral terms, imagine a preppie (who normally dresses like this) inviting you to a dorm room with "GeeYo, Mizuffy, here's something they won't play on the radio!  We are so fashionably hardcore for listening to it!  Shall we go to the thrift store and get something for the costume party?"  Whatever you chose to call him, you'd be right to charge him with aggravated douchebaggery :)

It probably doesn't look like it, but I actually think we're probably closer to agreement than disagreement here.

No matter how much I loved reggae in the nineties I never grew dreds, I never wore the flag of Jamaica, nor did I talk about "life down de ghett'o, mun!"  That would be silly, especially for a man in his twenties.  On the other hand, I knew white kids in the eighties who did just that.  In your teens, you're looking for identity and when you get infatuated with a cause and a style, be it punk, hip-hop, Rastafarian, or what have you, it's tempting  to adopt it as an image even if -- ESPECIALLY IF -- it will confuse your parents!
:D