I'll post some analysis later...

I love Morrissey the most out of that group. I think he has the greatest dry sense of humor, which is what I love about all the "family" I've been friends with over the years. But although he's always been thought of as gay, when I was a kid in the 80s he was supposedly not out and was calling himself asexual. Has he publicly outed himself?

I love Morrissey the most out of that group. I think he has the greatest dry sense of humor, which is what I love about all the "family" I've been friends with over the years. But although he's always been thought of as gay, when I was a kid in the 80s he was supposedly not out and was calling himself asexual. Has he publicly outed himself?


Nah, not really. He hasn't said if he is or not. It's more the themes of his lyrics that lead me to list him as a "GLBT" artist.

What is GLBT?

What is GLBT?

Gay Lesbian Bi Transsexual

Gay Lesbian Bi Transsexual


ah, then George Michael shouldn't be in the list, because he wasn't Gay until the 90s

   Erasure...

   Why?  Dunno...

   Never knew they were, uh, GLBT...

   go ;) ...

ah, then George Michael shouldn't be in the list, because he wasn't Gay until the 90s


George Michael was gay all along. People don't "become" gay.

George Michael was gay all along. People don't "become" gay.


From the public's point of view, he did.  He had relationships with several women in the 80s

Michael has stated that he was not out to himself in the 80s. The coming out process can include self realization. However, as our young friend Herman has stated, people don't in fact become gay.

Michael has stated that he was not out to himself in the 80s. The coming out process can include self realization. However, as our young friend Herman has stated, people don't in fact become gay.


I'm honestly surprised most people didn't realize George Michael was gay. No straight man is that perfect-looking past the age of 20.

I'm honestly surprised most people didn't realize George Michael was gay. No straight man is that perfect-looking past the age of 20.

Oh, people talked about it, but he wasn't stereotypical. Sadly enough, there was virtually no positive out GLBT presence in pop culture onscreen or in music before about 1993. You, Herman, are lucky to be growing up now!
But yeah, the straight men, not so focused on the ol appearance.  ;D

Back in the day, I never would have guessed that George Michael was gay.  All the girls in my school were crazy over him

Oh, people talked about it, but he wasn't stereotypical. Sadly enough, there was virtually no positive out GLBT presence in pop culture onscreen or in music before about 1993. You, Herman, are lucky to be growing up now!
But yeah, the straight men, not so focused on the ol appearance.  ;D


Well, there was an underground pop cultural gay presence...so it's not quite totally true. John Waters and other gay film-makers were active since the 1970s, and there were people like Truman Capote and Andy Warhol who were major "arts" celebrities who were out.

Culture Club (well, Boy George), Erasure and George Michael (Not Wham since Andrew isn't gay).

Yes, but it was an underground presence. There was no LOGO channel, no Lilith Fair, no Queer Eye, there were not nationally publicized Pride parades in every city in June or Coming Out Day everywhere every Oct 11 (okay that started in 88). Nobody talked about gender dysphoria, they just lumped all transgendered as "transvestites" which is in many cases a misnomer. Life is better now for the community than it was in the 80s. And that is why the general public didn't know George was gay. Hell, have you seen this freakin video? http://youtube.com/watch?v=c1ptqLTYcI4&search=i%20want%20your%20sex
Tame by today's standards, but at the time it was titillating and he was a big ol closet case.

Personally, my vote goes to the late, great Klaus Nomi.

I first saw him perform on 'URGH! A Music War', and I was amazed by his theatrics and music style.
Such a shame he was among the first to fall to AIDS.

Personally, my vote goes to the late, great Klaus Nomi.

I first saw him perform on 'URGH! A Music War', and I was amazed by his theatrics and music style.
Such a shame he was among the first to fall to AIDS.


Did you know that Rush Limbaugh plays him all the time?  One of the spots on his show, he opens with Klaus doing his version of "You Don't Know Me".  Truely erie.

Myself, I did not vote for anybody.  I could not care less what the orientation of a performer is.  It makes no bearing on if I enjoy/do not enjoy their work.

Myself, I did not vote for anybody.  I could not care less what the orientation of a performer is.  It makes no bearing on if I enjoy/do not enjoy their work.


I must applaud your non-discriminatory view, Mushroom.
I didn't vote on if I liked them based on sexual orientation; my vote was simply on an artist who I liked, that just happened to fall in this category.

That being said, I agree with you totally.
I wish more ppl were as objective as you, in their views.

I like stuff from just about all those performers, so I can't pick just one.

I must applaud your non-discriminatory view, Mushroom.
I didn't vote on if I liked them based on sexual orientation; my vote was simply on an artist who I liked, that just happened to fall in this category.

That being said, I agree with you totally.
I wish more ppl were as objective as you, in their views.


Well, mostly when it comes to issues like this, the most correct response is "I don't give a damn".

I do not care if somebody is gay, straight, bisexual, omnisexual, metrosexual, black, white, yellow, red, brown, green, purple, athiest, agnost, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, Wiccan, Male, Female, Young, Old, or anything else.

I view all people (famous, infamous, and nobodies) as only one thing, people.  TO me, the only people who are not "people" are those that have done things so horrible that I feel fit to exclude them from the human race, like Hitler.  Otherwaise, everybody is equal in my eyes.

Although I probably would not listen to somebody who felt it was their duty to shove their preferences in my face either.  Somebody can love farm animals all they want, but I do not want to have to listen to love songs written for a cow.  :D

Well, mostly when it comes to issues like this, the most correct response is "I don't give a damn".

I do not care if somebody is gay, straight, bisexual, omnisexual, metrosexual, black, white, yellow, red, brown, green, purple, athiest, agnost, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist, Wiccan, Male, Female, Young, Old, or anything else.

I view all people (famous, infamous, and nobodies) as only one thing, people.  TO me, the only people who are not "people" are those that have done things so horrible that I feel fit to exclude them from the human race, like Hitler.  Otherwaise, everybody is equal in my eyes.

Although I probably would not listen to somebody who felt it was their duty to shove their preferences in my face either.  Somebody can love farm animals all they want, but I do not want to have to listen to love songs written for a cow.  :D



Then you probably shouldn't listen to "Relax" by Frankie Goes To Hollywood.  While not about sex with a cow, it's definitely not about just chilling with a book.

Erasure...

Why?  Dunno...

Never knew they were, uh, GLBT...


Andy Bell, the singer from Erasure, happens to be gay, in case you didn't know.

Not that it matters, of course.

Yes, but it was an underground presence. There was no LOGO channel, no Lilith Fair, no Queer Eye, there were not nationally publicized Pride parades in every city in June or Coming Out Day everywhere every Oct 11 (okay that started in 88). Nobody talked about gender dysphoria, they just lumped all transgendered as "transvestites" which is in many cases a misnomer. Life is better now for the community than it was in the 80s. And that is why the general public didn't know George was gay. Hell, have you seen this freakin video? http://youtube.com/watch?v=c1ptqLTYcI4&search=i%20want%20your%20sex
Tame by today's standards, but at the time it was titillating and he was a big ol closet case.


There are drawbacks to that, too. The GLBT community, once a wonderful haven for creativity in the '60s-early '90s, has become a corporate bonanza, and stuff like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy is more of a drawback than an aide for gay guys. Gay men have been turned into some sort of wimpy corporate logo for hairspray, not a powerful and formidable force. Ever wonder why gay culture started declining around 1994? Now every gay man thinks they have to be Will from Will and Grace or some girl's "gay best friend" or be a Queer Eye advisor. It's as much a detriment to the community as an aide, moreso a detriment. I see the "long struggle for acceptance" within the gay community as being about 1969-1993, from Stonewall to the end of the AIDS epidemic and Clinton's inauguration. The '80s were in between the two, they were a massive decade of change for the gay community, as were the '70s. Gays were becoming increasingly mainstream in the music and creative communities and on urban streets, with the Reaganite forces and corporate forces disapproving. Gays have had what acceptance in America means-corporatization and a lack of underground vitality. Some young gay men don't know all the rich legacy of gay culture anymore, I pride myself that I've been into that stuff for years.

Personally, I think gay culture reached its peak in the late '70s-mid '80s, before AIDS decimated it. Disco, John Waters, Tales of the City, Edmund White's A Boys Own Story, new romanticism, Boy George, the Castro Clone, the B-52s, and really all the aforementioned entertainers.

What I was talking about more, Mushroom, was not the performer's sexual orientation themselves but the thematic importance of their work to the gay community and its relation to gay culture. For example, the Smiths were loved by many gay teenagers for their depiction of depression, and the song "How Soon Is Now?" relates to the impersonality of the gay experience. Erasure's "A Little Respect" and "Chains of Love" are cries for respect and acceptance, Bronski Beat's "Smalltown Boy" and "Why?" are chronicles of the gay experiences in the big city. The B-52s encapsulate the gay idea of camp and historical referencing. PSB's "West End Girls" can be interpreted as a story of the gay pick-up scene in London, and "rough trade."

I'm not going to vote, since of the artists listed above, I can't decide on just one. I happen to be a big fan of a bunch of them.

I'm a HUGE fan of both George Michael/Wham! and the Pet Shop Boys, so my pick would probably be a tie between the two.

And I also really enjoy listening to Erasure and Culture Club, as well.

I'm not going to vote, since of the artists listed above, I can't decide on just one. I happen to be a big fan of a bunch of them.

I'm a HUGE fan of both George Michael/Wham! and the Pet Shop Boys, so my pick would probably be a tie between the two.

And I also really enjoy listening to Erasure and Culture Club, as well.


I think Culture Club were a very "transgressive" group, to use a buzz word. They showed you could put an androgynous drag queen (Boy George used that term) at the top of the charts and become youth cultural icons. No mainstream top 40 performer before had worn a dress in concert or on posters.

There are drawbacks to that, too. The GLBT community, once a wonderful haven for creativity in the '60s-early '90s, has become a corporate bonanza, and stuff like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy is more of a drawback than an aide for gay guys. Gay men have been turned into some sort of wimpy corporate logo for hairspray, not a powerful and formidable force. Ever wonder why gay culture started declining around 1994? Now every gay man thinks they have to be Will from Will and Grace or some girl's "gay best friend" or be a Queer Eye advisor. It's as much a detriment to the community as an aide, moreso a detriment. I see the "long struggle for acceptance" within the gay community as being about 1969-1993, from Stonewall to the end of the AIDS epidemic and Clinton's inauguration. The '80s were in between the two, they were a massive decade of change for the gay community, as were the '70s. Gays were becoming increasingly mainstream in the music and creative communities and on urban streets, with the Reaganite forces and corporate forces disapproving. Gays have had what acceptance in America means-corporatization and a lack of underground vitality. Some young gay men don't know all the rich legacy of gay culture anymore, I pride myself that I've been into that stuff for years.

Personally, I think gay culture reached its peak in the late '70s-mid '80s, before AIDS decimated it. Disco, John Waters, Tales of the City, Edmund White's A Boys Own Story, new romanticism, Boy George, the Castro Clone, the B-52s, and really all the aforementioned entertainers.



I respectfully disagree. I don't believe marginalization helps the political cause of the gay community. GLBT people have trouble betting benefits from partners' jobs, are all but forbidden to adopt, still lose their own jobs and in some cases their own natural children due to their sexuality and in many cases are not protected by hate crime laws. Higher visibility can only help everyone understand that the odds are that someone they love is gay, bi or transgendered.

I respectfully disagree. I don't believe marginalization helps the political cause of the gay community. GLBT people have trouble betting benefits from partners' jobs, are all but forbidden to adopt, still lose their own jobs and in some cases their own natural children due to their sexuality and in many cases are not protected by hate crime laws. Higher visibility can only help everyone understand that the odds are that someone they love is gay, bi or transgendered.


I'm not going to say marginalization, I'm going to say "corporatization" and the adoption of an identity that is programmed by mega-media corporations like NBCUniversal or Viacom and not by an independent gay culture. You misunderstood what I was saying. That has only harmed the gay community, "corporatization" and stupid shows like Queer Eye that project implicitly negative, dumbed-down gay stereotypes. It's like the stereotypes that Asians and Jews are academic wizzes and have good business acumen. They're good, but implicitly bad if you don't live up to them, and do force you to be a certain way.

Anyway, the adoption issue is sort of marginal and is mostly for upper middle-class urban gay people. The target groups the gay rights movement should be focusing on are poor gays who get kicked out by their families and can't work or are subjects of violence because they're gay, not well-to-do urban gays in the Village, the Castro, Lakeview, and West Hollywood. Those communities may've come along way, but that isn't so much the case outside big cities. The first issues that should be focused on are reducing hate crimes (particularly in the transgendered community) and tolerance outside of these areas. This also applies for the marriage issue. Most of the people pushing for it are the upper echelon of gay men and lesbians, income-wise and education-wise. Not the people who have to work on surviving, who should be helped first. The situation for thme is still pitiful.

The Smiths by far...not too interested in the others. And it's debatable whether the Smiths would fit into that mould either (and I don't just mean because their music was so different).

Then you probably shouldn't listen to "Relax" by Frankie Goes To Hollywood.  While not about sex with a cow, it's definitely not about just chilling with a book.


Relax is one of those songs where the meaning can be taken many different ways, depending on who is listening to the song.

Another good example of this is "Father Figure".  It was not until after his arrest in the Will Rogers State Park bathroom that he admitted that it was written to a boyfriend of his.  Many other songs by groups like Queen, Village People, even The Beatles disguised same sex relationships in their songs.

If "In The Navy" was not written the way it was, and contained outright gay inuendo ("bend over in the shower sailor"), nobody would have listened to it outside of the gay community, and it never would have been a hit.  Since nothing was outright spoken about being about gay sailors, most people just ignored the subtle inuendo and enjoyed what they did hear.  And even some of the most homophobic people I know will sing along whenever "Lola" or "Talk a walk on the wild side" comes on the radio.

When I listen to Father Figure now its obvious, but when it was a hit I was clueless. However, I didn't become submerged knowingly in gay culture til 95.

The Smiths by far...not too interested in the others. And it's debatable whether the Smiths would fit into that mould either (and I don't just mean because their music was so different).


Hmm, I do think they explore GLBT issues, arguably in a more sensitive and realistic way than groups like Frankie Goes to Hollywood. "How Soon Is Now?" can be taken as being about the gay club scene and how unfulfilling it is, for example.