The group Public Enemy has always been known for songs that protest racial injustice and contain biting social commentary. They're widely respected as groundbreakers in the world of hip hop music and many people admire the social awareness conveyed in their songs, but there's some messages contained in their lyrics that I feel are wrong. In their song "Fight the Power" from 1989, there's a few lines that criticize Elvis Presley for having been a racist.

Here's the lines:

Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant sh** to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother f*** him and John Wayne

And here's the full lyrics to the song:

http://www.publicenemy.com/index.php?page=page5&item=3&num=74

I was just wondering, is it fair to accuse Elvis of having been a racist in this way? I've never heard anything about him that would indicate he was a racist. Considering that most of the musical styles he performed originally came from the black community, you could probably argue just the opposite about him.

When Elvis started his career in the 1950s, he used musical styles that were pioneered in the black community but weren't yet popular with mainstream society. Because Elvis was white, he was able to capitalize on these musical styles in a way that black performers could not have done because of the prejudicial nature of society at the time. While it's true that black musicians were prevented from realizing the same level of success as Elvis because of racism, that wasn't Elvis' fault.

According to the Wikipedia article on Elvis Presley, there have been a few allegations of him having been a racist, but it also says there is no evidence to support this. The article goes on to list several examples that strongly counter this claim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis#Allegations_of_racism

It even contains a strong denunciation of people who would accuse Elvis of racism:

'The idea of Elvis being racist was fabricated by black racists who don't accept how a white boy helped a part of their culture. These black racists also lack the the education or natural common sense to make the transition between race and support. Elvis supported black people. He is a hero to black people but a great deal of black people are not attempting to look beneath the surface or find some depth in the actions that took place. As Little Richard said, "Elvis opened the door for black people".'


So what's everyone think? Are Public Enemy justified in calling Elvis Presley a racist, or are they way off base?

The group Public Enemy has always been known for songs that protest racial injustice and contain biting social commentary. They're widely respected as groundbreakers in the world of hip hop music and many people admire the social awareness conveyed in their songs, but there's some messages contained in their lyrics that I feel are wrong. In their song "Fight the Power" from 1989, there's a few lines that criticize Elvis Presley for having been a racist.

Here's the lines:

Elvis was a hero to most
But he never meant sh** to me you see
Straight up racist that sucker was
Simple and plain
Mother f*** him and John Wayne

And here's the full lyrics to the song:

http://www.publicenemy.com/index.php?page=page5&item=3&num=74

I was just wondering, is it fair to accuse Elvis of having been a racist in this way? I've never heard anything about him that would indicate he was a racist. Considering that most of the musical styles he performed originally came from the black community, you could probably argue just the opposite about him.

When Elvis started his career in the 1950s, he used musical styles that were pioneered in the black community but weren't yet popular with mainstream society. Because Elvis was white, he was able to capitalize on these musical styles in a way that black performers could not have done because of the prejudicial nature of society at the time. While it's true that black musicians were prevented from realizing the same level of success as Elvis because of racism, that wasn't Elvis' fault.

According to the Wikipedia article on Elvis Presley, there have been a few allegations of him having been a racist, but it also says there is no evidence to support this. The article goes on to list several examples that strongly counter this claim:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis#Allegations_of_racism

It even contains a strong denunciation of people who would accuse Elvis of racism:

'The idea of Elvis being racist was fabricated by black racists who don't accept how a white boy helped a part of their culture. These black racists also lack the the education or natural common sense to make the transition between race and support. Elvis supported black people. He is a hero to black people but a great deal of black people are not attempting to look beneath the surface or find some depth in the actions that took place. As Little Richard said, "Elvis opened the door for black people".'


So what's everyone think? Are Public Enemy justified in calling Elvis Presley a racist, or are they way off base?



Because many people call Elvis the king of rock, but Chuck Berry & Little Richard was around before Elvis. Therefore he was the guy who made rock mainstream for the white audience.


Then again, Flavor Flav might've been part of a pioneering  gangsta rap group, but he's a reality show loser to me  :D

Well...Public Enemy did say Jews were responsible for most of the evil in the world. Whereas some of their opinions may've been valid, I'm not going to take them seriously after that.

Well...Public Enemy did say Jews were responsible for most of the evil in the world. Whereas some of their opinions may've been valid, I'm not going to take them seriously after that.


Yeah, one of the subordinate members of Public Enemy, Professor Griff, made some anti-semitic comments to the press. The rest of the group disagreed with his views and they parted ways with him shortly afterwards.

Yeah, one of the subordinate members of Public Enemy, Professor Griff, made some anti-semitic comments to the press. The rest of the group disagreed with his views and they parted ways with him shortly afterwards.


Thank god...now I won't rag on Public Enemy as much.

Well...Public Enemy did say Jews were responsible for most of the evil in the world. Whereas some of their opinions may've been valid, I'm not going to take them seriously after that.


Were Public Enemy in any way affiliated with the Black Muslim/Black Power movement? Because one of the tenets of the more extremist elements of the movements is an ingrained anti-semiticism.

Were Public Enemy in any way affiliated with the Black Muslim/Black Power movement? Because one of the tenets of the more extremist elements of the movements is an ingrained anti-semiticism.


Yeah, Public Enemy was affiliated with the "black power" security group S1W, and Public Enemy's Professor Griff was also a member of S1W:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S1W

Because many people call Elvis the king of rock, but Chuck Berry & Little Richard was around before Elvis. Therefore he was the guy who made rock mainstream for the white audience.


As an example, here's Elvis Presley's Hound Dog, 1956.  It's a cheery up-tempo rock-and-roll track, and while we can figure out that he's singing about something more than a species of hunting dogs, that's about all we get.


You ain't nothin' but a hound dog, cryin' all the time.
You ain't nothin' but a hound dog, cryin' all the time.
Well, you ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine.

When they said you was high classed, well, that was just a lie.
When they said you was high classed, well, that was just a lie.
You ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine.


Here's the original.  Big Mama Thornton: Hound Dog, 1953.  Big Mama Thornton's vocals are gravelly, it's a solid rhythm and blues track with Johnny Otis on drums, it's gritty, it's raw, and you know exactly what she thinks of the guy she's kicking to the curb, and exactly why. 


You ain't nothin' but a hound dog, been snoopin' round my door.
You ain't nothin' but a hound dog, been snoopin' round my door.
You can wag your tail, but I ain't gonn' feed you no more.

You told me you was high classed, but I could see through that.
You told me you was high classed, but I could see through that.
And Daddy, I know, you ain't no real cool cat.

You made me feel so blue, you made me weep and moan,
You made me feel so blue, you made me weep and moan,
'Cause you ain't lookin' for a woman, all you's lookin' is for a home.


That last line probably couldn't have been performed live on TV by any woman in the early '50s, much less a black woman.  Therein lies the difference between blues and pop.

More reading:

http://theguyswhowroteem.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/page4.html

My take:  They're both good tracks, but for completely different reasons.  The story of "Hound Dog" is a good example of the sort of thing that PE might have been referring to.  It's by no means the only example.

Elvis is not as much loved in the black community b/c it's one thing to be influenced by a group, appreciate those influences and most importantly, CREDIT these influences (e.g. most of the British Invasion groups like the Stones and the Beatles, Eminem) and it's another thing to act as if you created everything yourself (e.g. Elvis). It took a style that was completely derivative and sold it as his; thus, the b.s. title of "King of Rock" which is insulting to Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and many other African-American musicians who truly pioneered the sounds and styles.

Now does that make him racist per se? No, it makes him an unoriginal thief. He's not the only one to do such things, which makes it tirelessly frustrating to see white artists take a style from any group of color and gain acceptance. I guess many white audiences prefer, excuse the pun, the whitewashed version over the authentic, overwhelmingly better style from the original groups.

However, there have been many tales about him being racist and trying to amend this behavior. For example, he gave a brand new pink cadillac to some random Black lady walking down the street. Does that truly amend him? Nope, but I'm sure the lady got a kick out the car.

You can cop out by saying it's not his fault. But there were plenty of artists who refused to play segregated audiences (e.g The Beatles) and took a stand against such behavior. He benefited from it immensely without any apparent shame or stance against it.

I guess the vindication came from his death upon a toilet!

Flavor Flav vs. Elvis on "Celebrity Death Match" would be funny  :D


Though I like to see TuPac against him, though he was a gangster in real life...unless Mills Lane take away his guns, which would make him a wuss  :D

Elvis Costello?

Only  new wave fans and hipsters like his stuff  ???

Elvis Costello?

Only  new wave fans and hipsters like his stuff  ???


Elvis Presley, not Costello.

Besides, Elvis C. came out before the New Wave movement.

Elvis is not as much loved in the black community b/c it's one thing to be influenced by a group, appreciate those influences and most importantly, CREDIT these influences (e.g. most of the British Invasion groups like the Stones and the Beatles, Eminem) and it's another thing to act as if you created everything yourself (e.g. Elvis). It took a style that was completely derivative and sold it as his; thus, the b.s. title of "King of Rock" which is insulting to Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and many other African-American musicians who truly pioneered the sounds and styles.

Now does that make him racist per se? No, it makes him an unoriginal thief. He's not the only one to do such things, which makes it tirelessly frustrating to see white artists take a style from any group of color and gain acceptance. I guess many white audiences prefer, excuse the pun, the whitewashed version over the authentic, overwhelmingly better style from the original groups.

However, there have been many tales about him being racist and trying to amend this behavior. For example, he gave a brand new pink cadillac to some random Black lady walking down the street. Does that truly amend him? Nope, but I'm sure the lady got a kick out the car.

You can cop out by saying it's not his fault. But there were plenty of artists who refused to play segregated audiences (e.g The Beatles) and took a stand against such behavior. He benefited from it immensely without any apparent shame or stance against it.

I guess the vindication came from his death upon a toilet!


I hate to let the air out of your balloon Tanya, but you're way off the mark on virtually every point.

Yeah, rock n roll was derivative. But the genres that it came from - blues, country and gospel, was music that Elvis was thoroughly steeped in from childhood - he didn't steal a damned thing. Or put it this way, if he stole the blues, did Chuck Berry steal country music when he sang "Maybellene'? (Chuck's update of an old country tune called "Ida Red" - betcha didn't know that)

For the record, Elvis credited all his influences in the 50's, black and white, publicly and privately, at a time when it was positively dangerous for a white southerner to go round saying he was influenced by black music and culture. It's well documented if you care to look.

Lastly, the title "King of Rock'n'Roll" was originally bestowed on Elvis by showbiz bible "Variety" magazine in 1956 and it stuck. Elvis himself had nothing to do with it.

I suggest you take a look at this article to read what people like James Brown, BB King, Muhummud Ali and civil rights photographer Ernest Withers had to say about Elvis before you casually toss allegations of racism his way.

http://www.elvis-express.com/racist.html

I agree that Elvis' music owes all to African-American artists who paved his way...the songs, the vocal style, the stage presence, but I don't think Elvis was harmful to black music.  First of all, black people invented rock 'n' roll, and anybody who doesn't know that is an ignoramous. Secondly, we have to bear in mind the segregation of music in the 1950s. Stores in white neighborhoods wouldn't carry "Negro records," so it behooved Col. Tom Parker to downplay the black origins of the music.  Thirdly, and most importantly, Elvis' sound helped get white kids interested in black artists.*  Thus, Elvis was beneficial to racial integration.

I like Public Enemy, but in the '80s, they were angry young men.  Angry young men usually get a few things wrong.  And yes, Big Mama Thornton did record "Hound Dog" a few years before Elvis, but the song itself was written by Jerry Lieber and Mike Stoller....JEWS!  So, sorry "Professor Griff."
:P


*They could segregate the record stores, and they could segregate the venues, but they couldn't segregate the airwaves.  My mother says she first got turned on to pop music when she heard Ruth Brown singing "Mama He Treats Your Daughter Mean" on one of those "Negro radio stations" in Boston!  That's how it happened.  White kids from the suburbs would hear these great songs on the the black stations, and then go into the city to the record shops that carried the "Negro records," and buy 'em up!

A better choice for Public Enemy's ire would have been Pat Boone...but replacing Elvis with Pat Boone in those lyrics would have been a little too comical!
"Pat Boone never meant sh*t to me, the racist motherf**ker!"
;D

I think it had something to do with that alleged comment about how he wouldn't even let a black man shine his shoes.

hey all just remember the old saying that all the old blues folks used to say.. The Blues had a baby and it was called Rock&Roll....

I don't think Elvis was a racist, but anyhow, there was a lot of interesting points of view here.

I don't think Elvis was a racist, but anyhow, there was a lot of interesting points of view here.


Elvis wasn't the racist, it was the music industry, and a huge chuck of the listeners, who were racist.  Until Elvis rock and roll was called n****r music, just as rap is, or was, called the same thing until it was co-opted and cleaned up.

Hey!  It's 2012, not 2006, and that means we can actually listen to these songs!


As an example, here's Elvis Presley's Hound Dog, 1956.  It's a cheery up-tempo rock-and-roll track, and while we can figure out that he's singing about something more than a species of hunting dogs, that's about all we get.


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  - Elvis Presley, TV broadcast, Hound Dog, 1956.  Not the recording you probably remember, it's the same lyrics. 

Elvis' hip gyrations were almost too scandalous for broadcast, but I guess the bowdlerized lyrics were OK.


Here's the original.  Big Mama Thornton: Hound Dog, 1953.  Big Mama Thornton's vocals are gravelly, it's a solid rhythm and blues track with Johnny Otis on drums, it's gritty, it's raw, and you know exactly what she thinks of the guy she's kicking to the curb, and exactly why. 


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  Willie Mae, "Big Mama" Thornton: Hound Dog, 1953, 78 RPM single.

That song couldn't have been aired on 1950s TV even if she was white.

Elvis was there BEFORE Chuck Berry (That's All Right Mama 1954/ Maybeline 1955) and Little Richard was thre before, OK, but only started "Wild Rock'n'Roll" in 1955 to !

Now Elvis picked up a lot of Rythm and Blues songs, but he always admitted he did !

http://photos.elvispresleymusic.com.au/images/celebrities/bobby_blue_bland_elvis_presley_december_7_1956.jpg


Elvis honestly said : " A lot of people seem to think I started this "business", he told Jet. "But rock n roll was here a long time before I came along". "Nobody can sing that kind of music like colored people".
"Let's face it: I can't sing like Fats Domino can. I know that."


For Hound Dog, Elvis could hardly sing the words of a woman deceived by a "stud", now could he ???


http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/uploads/2/fats_domino_elvis_presley.jpg


And Little Richard and Fats Domino always calimed they were grateful to Elvis for " Opening the Door" to the Balck artists, so what's the fuss  all about ???




"Elvis came to see me before he got a record deal," Fats Domino says. "I liked him. I liked to hear him sing. He was just starting out, almost. I loved his music. He could sing anything. And he was a nice fellow, shy. His face was so pretty, so soft. I'm glad we took a picture together."


Little Richard. "He was an integrator, Elvis was a blessing. They wouldn't let black music through. He opened the door for black music."