I mean, in terms of creativity. I would say that it was about 1984 or 1985...even by the late '80s, the creative aspect of most videos seemed to be declining, despite a few acknowledged classics (Madonna's "Like a Prayer" and all the other ones off her two albums from the last half of the '80s, for example.) Part of it had to be the deaths of new wave, '80s dance-pop, and arena-style pop-rock like Mr. Mister that were the genres most interested in the music video as a creative experience. By 1991, it seemed that there was a perception that creative music videos were an '80s thing, so everything had to be "simple" (though there were some great, interesting '90s videos: "Heart-Shaped Box" by Nirvana, "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden, anything by Tori Amos.)

I know I am only a guest, but do you really need to start so many topics at a time? 

Bumpity bump...

I mean, in terms of creativity. I would say that it was about 1984 or 1985...even by the late '80s, the creative aspect of most videos seemed to be declining, despite a few acknowledged classics (Madonna's "Like a Prayer" and all the other ones off her two albums from the last half of the '80s, for example.) Part of it had to be the deaths of new wave, '80s dance-pop, and arena-style pop-rock like Mr. Mister that were the genres most interested in the music video as a creative experience. By 1991, it seemed that there was a perception that creative music videos were an '80s thing, so everything had to be "simple" (though there were some great, interesting '90s videos: "Heart-Shaped Box" by Nirvana, "Black Hole Sun" by Soundgarden, anything by Tori Amos.)


Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing not too long ago. I realized hair bands tend to actually be kinda boring and repetitive in their videos (i.e. usually stage shots of their performance, with a few "metal chicks" thrown in, lol). Although "Living on a Prayer" and "Here I Go Again" were some of the better pop metal videos.

Many of the "storyline/concept" ones seemed to be, like 1983-86. Phil Collins, Huey Lewis, Tom Petty and ZZ Top are some examples of very creative video bands.

Of course, there also was that early "camcorder look" videos -- also usually stage performances or something done in a single room, with a budget of probably $500 -- such as "Trouble" by Lindsey Buckingham, "1999" by Prince or "Start Me Up" by the Stones.

There were good '90s videos (Paula Abdul is one of the best out of the late 80s/early 90s stars, IMO), but the pre-1988 era was definitely the most creative. ;)

Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing not too long ago. I realized hair bands tend to actually be kinda boring and repetitive in their videos (i.e. usually stage shots of their performance, with a few "metal chicks" thrown in, lol). Although "Living on a Prayer" and "Here I Go Again" were some of the better pop metal videos.

Many of the "storyline/concept" ones seemed to be, like 1983-86. Phil Collins, Huey Lewis, Tom Petty and ZZ Top are some examples of very creative video bands.

Of course, there also was that early "camcorder look" videos -- also usually stage performances or something done in a single room, with a budget of probably $500 -- such as "Trouble" by Lindsey Buckingham, "1999" by Prince or "Start Me Up" by the Stones.

There were good '90s videos (Paula Abdul is one of the best out of the late 80s/early 90s stars, IMO), but the pre-1988 era was definitely the most creative. ;)


Yeah, there were good '90s videos (the aforementioned Nirvana and Soundgarden videos, Paula Abdul, Jody Watley), but overall, I think the interest in the creativity/flashiness of it decreased around 1988. Part of it was that music videos were less important than overall MTV coverage in the '90s. Like Madonna's "Bad Girl" had such an amazing music video that, had it been released in 1985, it would've been huge with the quality of the song. Music videos in the '90s were supposed to be alot "darker" and more back-to-basics, as part of the '80s backlash. Even the late '90s had more recognizable music videos ("Baby One More Time", for example) than the '00s. Most of the really recognizable music videos seem to be 1982-1986, or so, with some stuff after that up through the '90s.

Yeah, there were good '90s videos (the aforementioned Nirvana and Soundgarden videos, Paula Abdul, Jody Watley), but overall, I think the interest in the creativity/flashiness of it decreased around 1988. Part of it was that music videos were less important than overall MTV coverage in the '90s. Like Madonna's "Bad Girl" had such an amazing music video that, had it been released in 1985, it would've been huge with the quality of the song. Music videos in the '90s were supposed to be alot "darker" and more back-to-basics, as part of the '80s backlash. Even the late '90s had more recognizable music videos ("Baby One More Time", for example) than the '00s. Most of the really recognizable music videos seem to be 1982-1986, or so, with some stuff after that up through the '90s.

That's true, isn't it? When I think of general '90s MTV, I think of Road Rules, The Real World and Kurt Loder, lol. So MTV itself did in fact, seem more important than individual videos. Like people of course, still watched it, but it was more of a "Hey, let's watch the whole Top 20 countdown" as opposed to the 1985 sentiment of "Ohmigaawwwwd, we have to see the new Madonna video". (:D)

I think they started to get a second wave, actually around 1996/97. I had alot I liked from around then, such as "1979", "Three Marlenas" "Walking on the Sun", and "Ironic".

Would you agree with this:
1979-82/early '83: Camcorder/rough cut early videos
1983-88: Creative peak of "flashy" or concept videos
1989-mid '91: Transitional between above and below. Alot of dance ones, too.
Late '91-96: Grunge/darker, more basic videos.
1997-2000: Second wave of flashy/teen pop/recognizable videos.
2001+: Modern era. Sort of a toned down mix of 97-00 and 91-96.

That's true, isn't it? When I think of general '90s MTV, I think of Road Rules, The Real World and Kurt Loder, lol. So MTV itself did in fact, seem more important than individual videos. Like people of course, still watched it, but it was more of a "Hey, let's watch the whole Top 20 countdown" as opposed to the 1985 sentiment of "Ohmigaawwwwd, we have to see the new Madonna video". (:D)

I think they started to get a second wave, actually around 1996/97. I had alot I liked from around then, such as "1979", "Three Marlenas" "Walking on the Sun", and "Ironic".

Would you agree with this:
1979-82/early '83: Camcorder/rough cut early videos
1983-88: Creative peak of "flashy" or concept videos
1989-mid '91: Transitional between above and below. Alot of dance ones, too.
Late '91-96: Grunge/darker, more basic videos.
1997-2000: Second wave of flashy/teen pop/recognizable videos.
2001+: Modern era. Sort of a toned down mix of 97-00 and 91-96.


Si, I would agree with that. There was a creative mix with the aforementioned videos...and also alot of animated videos, like the ones Korn was famous for, and "concept" videos like Jennifer Lopez's "If I Gave You All My Love." Most of the people who kept doing the flashy music videos (Madonna, Michael Jackson) past 1988 were doing it as a continuation of their older career...like Michael's "Black or White" from 1991 is very flashy that way, as is Madonna's "Vogue" from 1990 and all her 1989 videos.

Si, I would agree with that. There was a creative mix with the aforementioned videos...and also alot of animated videos, like the ones Korn was famous for, and "concept" videos like Jennifer Lopez's "If I Gave You All My Love." Most of the people who kept doing the flashy music videos (Madonna, Michael Jackson) past 1988 were doing it as a continuation of their older career...like Michael's "Black or White" from 1991 is very flashy that way, as is Madonna's "Vogue" from 1990 and all her 1989 videos.


Yeah, I actually remember seeing the World Premiere for "Black or White" in its extended version in '91. I thought it was even better than his Thriller ones, but even at 9-10 years old, I kinda thought to myself that he mastered/got better with the same stuff he'd already been doing.

Speaking of that: You know what I almost never see anymore (not saying it doesn't exist at all, but it has diminished for sure)? Videos with "extra" stuff at the beginning or the end, or "action" going on during the song playing. Phil Collins for instance, did tons of that in his videos.

Yeah, I actually remember seeing the World Premiere for "Black or White" in its extended version in '91. I thought it was even better than his Thriller ones, but even at 9-10 years old, I kinda thought to myself that he mastered/got better with the same stuff he'd already been doing.

Speaking of that: You know what I almost never see anymore (not saying it doesn't exist at all, but it has diminished for sure)? Videos with "extra" stuff at the beginning or the end, or "action" going on during the song playing. Phil Collins for instance, did tons of that in his videos.


Yeah...you don't see that all that much anymore. Like "Material Girl" from 1984 (or was it released as a video in early 1985?) had an extended sequence that made it "mesh" into a storyline. Also, in a video like Duran Duran's "Girls on Film", they would extend an instrumental sequence or solo in the middle to allow for extra action. It goes along with the general decline of the storyline videos. People just put much less effort into them nowadays...

Yeah...you don't see that all that much anymore. Like "Material Girl" from 1984 (or was it released as a video in early 1985?) had an extended sequence that made it "mesh" into a storyline. Also, in a video like Duran Duran's "Girls on Film", they would extend an instrumental sequence or solo in the middle to allow for extra action. It goes along with the general decline of the storyline videos. People just put much less effort into them nowadays...


I think "Material Girl" was early '85. Yeah, I forgot about that too - often times the "video mix" and "album version" were different. I think the reason for not putting too much into them is, nowadays, they (the artists, record companies, etc) know people watch them and it'll make money, but that it's not a novelty or new thing anymore. Like, that people will watch and enjoy it, but won't take their lunch hour off for it, or "kids" won't rush home from school exclusively for it anymore.

The Internet, etc could have something to do with this.

I think "Material Girl" was early '85. Yeah, I forgot about that too - often times the "video mix" and "album version" were different. I think the reason for not putting too much into them is, nowadays, they (the artists, record companies, etc) know people watch them and it'll make money, but that it's not a novelty or new thing anymore. Like, that people will watch and enjoy it, but won't take their lunch hour off for it, or "kids" won't rush home from school exclusively for it anymore.

The Internet, etc could have something to do with this.


Even in the '90s, I think this was happening, though the internet hasn't helped...it was the novelty wearing off along with the associations of the form with new wave and '80s pop-rock like Mr. Mister, which were backlashed. It came back briefly '96-'00, but still didn't totally come back. Also, MTV stopped showing them and devoting time to it starting in the '90s, which obviously contributed.

Even in the '90s, I think this was happening, though the internet hasn't helped...it was the novelty wearing off along with the associations of the form with new wave and '80s pop-rock like Mr. Mister, which were backlashed. It came back briefly '96-'00, but still didn't totally come back. Also, MTV stopped showing them and devoting time to it starting in the '90s, which obviously contributed.


Yeah, I agree. The "early reality TV" of MTV c. 1992 probably started it too.

You know, (obviously this will never happen, but) I always wondered what the reception would be, if MTV were to suddenly show exclusive music videos for, let's say 2 hours a day, or even '80s/90s video blocks. Would that change the course of things? I think people would at least like it if they were more exposed to it.

Yeah, I agree. The "early reality TV" of MTV c. 1992 probably started it too.

You know, (obviously this will never happen, but) I always wondered what the reception would be, if MTV were to suddenly show exclusive music videos for, let's say 2 hours a day, or even '80s/90s video blocks. Would that change the course of things? I think people would at least like it if they were more exposed to it.


I think it would be very well received if they showed music videos for like, 3 hours a day and '80s-'90s blocks. I know alot of people are starting to get sick of the constant extremely stupid, pointless, materialistic (and "VERY '00s") reality TV shows...maybe part of the '00s backlash will be reintroducing music videos to MTV?

I think it would be very well received if they showed music videos for like, 3 hours a day and '80s-'90s blocks. I know alot of people are starting to get sick of the constant extremely stupid, pointless, materialistic (and "VERY '00s") reality TV shows...maybe part of the '00s backlash will be reintroducing music videos to MTV?


In the words of Butthead, "That would be co-ol." ;)

Really though, I wonder if MTV and the networks know that stuff like that is getting tiring, but they know "what works", so they don't want to change it until it totally runs ouf of steam.

Have you also noticed, the Reality Shows often seem to try purposely to be stupid and materalistic? It would be one thing if it just kinda happened to end up that way, but it seems to be a purposeful effort, lol.

In the words of Butthead, "That would be co-ol." ;)

Really though, I wonder if MTV and the networks know that stuff like that is getting tiring, but they know "what works", so they don't want to change it until it totally runs ouf of steam.

Have you also noticed, the Reality Shows often seem to try purposely to be stupid and materalistic? It would be one thing if it just kinda happened to end up that way, but it seems to be a purposeful effort, lol.


Well, that is the '00s, lol...I think MTV will change and be totally different in the '10s, maybe more focus on music or something a little, you know, intriguing... ;) Those shows do it on purpose to attract people to it, most people in the '00s are sort of fascinated by it.

Yeah, entertainment corporations never get tired of something until it's absolutely unprofitable, they never try anything new (this is what happened with hair metal and arguably grunge and teen pop, and stuff like reality TV.)

Well, that is the '00s, lol...I think MTV will change and be totally different in the '10s, maybe more focus on music or something a little, you know, intriguing... ;) Those shows do it on purpose to attract people to it, most people in the '00s are sort of fascinated by it.

Yeah, entertainment corporations never get tired of something until it's absolutely unprofitable, they never try anything new (this is what happened with hair metal and arguably grunge and teen pop, and stuff like reality TV.)

Yeah, I think things have to come out of nowhere to really change execs and corporations' minds. The way Elvis did c. 1956 and Nirvana/grunge did in late '91.

For some reason, I think reality TV will take the longest to die on MTV than it will in the mainstream. The Survivor-type "main channel" shows will probably lose their appeal first, but MTV will keep plugging along until something new comes and proves that RTV is "uncool". That's sorta how TRL is/was.

Yeah, I think things have to come out of nowhere to really change execs and corporations' minds. The way Elvis did c. 1956 and Nirvana/grunge did in late '91.

For some reason, I think reality TV will take the longest to die on MTV than it will in the mainstream. The Survivor-type "main channel" shows will probably lose their appeal first, but MTV will keep plugging along until something new comes and proves that RTV is "uncool". That's sorta how TRL is/was.


Yeah, I agree...despite MTV being the "young" network, it takes awhile for it to prove things are uncool. And VH1 always sort of follows MTV, so it'll follow suit when MTV does something. I also think all the hour-long dramas will start to go away sometime c. 2009 or 2008. Was grunge's success largely due to MTV, though?