It's been my understanding that in Europe, the '90s were a campy, as opposed to grungy decade.  In the States, the '90s began as grungy and then totally cheesed out at the end.

Were the '80s and '90s more similar in Europe, as opposed to polar opposites they were in the States?

I've honestly always gotten that sense. For one, techno was massive in Europe in the '90s, and Britpop (too happy, arguably, for the US in the '90s) uses the same influences (the British Invasion of the mid-'60s) as did British new wave in the '80s. And U2 and Sting were bigger through the '90s there.

Techno really is kind of the update of '80s synth pop.  Happy Hardcore is influenced by stuff like Cyndi Lauper and Haircut 100.

Techno really is kind of the update of '80s synth pop.  Happy Hardcore is influenced by stuff like Cyndi Lauper and Haircut 100.


In Europe, the '90s seemed even more like a redux of the '60s and '70s, with the massive popularity of dance music and ABBA-style cheese.

In Europe, the '90s seemed even more like a redux of the '60s and '70s, with the massive popularity of dance music and ABBA-style cheese.



That's true ... like the A-Teens.

That's true ... like the A-Teens.


It kind of goes along with my theory of British Invasions. Like the US and Britain diverge heavily and come back together again. They collided in the mid-60s with the British Invasion, diverged for the very American "summer of love", got back together again from glam rock, metal, and prog rock in the early '70s, collided briefly with punk, moved away into disco, American new wave/post-punk (Blondie, etc.), hardcore punk, collided big time with British new wave and synthpop in the early mid-'80s, moved away big time in the late '80s-mid '90s period with hair metal, alt rock, college rock, singer-songwriters, etc., sort of (but never that much) got back in touch in the late '90s with techno, Britpop, Radiohead, and the Spice Girls, then told each other to never call back in the '00s, with an occasional fling like Coldplay or the Arctic Monkeys.

I think the Strokes, Franz Ferdinand, and the Killers (even though they're American) are what I'd call "Brit-emo" ... that is the fourth wave of british invasion, which is part of the emo movement. 

I think the Strokes, Franz Ferdinand, and the Killers (even though they're American) are what I'd call "Brit-emo" ... that is the fourth wave of british invasion, which is part of the emo movement. 


And Coldplay, Radiohead, etc. too. The Britishness of the '00s comes from American groups imitating '80s British groups.

And Coldplay, Radiohead, etc. too. The Britishness of the '00s comes from American groups imitating '80s British groups.


Yes... in some ways, the '80s have never died in certain parts of Europe, which also explains some of the influence of brit-emo.

Yes... in some ways, the '80s have never died in certain parts of Europe, which also explains some of the influence of brit-emo.


Other than hair metal, most American rock (noise rock, college rock, hardcore punk, "alt rock") was not very "'80s" in the '80s. It's astonishing to think about what the '80s would've been like without the British Invasion.

Other than hair metal, most American rock (noise rock, college rock, hardcore punk, "alt rock") was not very "'80s" in the '80s. It's astonishing to think about what the '80s would've been like without the British Invasion.


Well yeah ... just like '90s rock that nobody really cares about floats around in the '00s, '60s and '70s rock like Starship that was uber-generic floated around in the '80s.

I'm starting to think that the late '80s/early '90s was not a quick shift at all.  For instance, grunge is some ways really wasn't that different from hair metal.  Guns n Roses for instance were almost both, in a way. I think the change is definitely there, but I'm starting to think it was more similar to the '90s/'00s change.

Well yeah ... just like '90s rock that nobody really cares about floats around in the '00s, '60s and '70s rock like Starship that was uber-generic floated around in the '80s.

I'm starting to think that the late '80s/early '90s was not a quick shift at all.  For instance, grunge is some ways really wasn't that different from hair metal.  Guns n Roses for instance were almost both, in a way. I think the change is definitely there, but I'm starting to think it was more similar to the '90s/'00s change.


I think that it was more a very, very fast stylistic change around 1991-1992 with visual styles stopping being popular. It took way longer for this to happen in the '00s. Something like the Smashing Pumpkins returned more to the '70s roots of classic metal and punk. Like you can tell the difference hugely in visuals between 1990 and 1993, not the case with early 2000 and early 2003 or even early 1980-early 1983.