Didn't some people get Net access from the library back then?



Yeah, back in the mid-90's the library here used to be filled up with people using the computers to get online esp. in about 1995 and 1996.

Didn't some people get Net access from the library back then?


Do you still have free internet in your public libraries? We still do over here.

Do you still have free internet in your public libraries? We still do over here.


Yeah, 15 minutes free, an hour with a card.

Do you still have free internet in your public libraries? We still do over here.



Yeah, we still do here too but since alot more people have internet acess and computers at home its not as filled up as it once was.

I would agree with this.  However, I think these "Pizza Days" sort of stretched as late as 1997, in the sense of sheer lifestyle.  Little kids didn't really use the Internet much in the '90s, and the Ninja Turtles/Super Mario games, while certainly past their prime were still vaguely around.  But yeah, I think c. 1990 is the most "suburban" era you can get.  It's definitely more '80s than '90s, that 1988-mid 1991 period, but it's like you said more hi tech (I'd say 1991 is when computers really became ubuitiquous, i.e. that's when DJ from Full House got one), and the culture is a little more cutting edge/urban then the early and mid '80s, but not over-the-top like the mid and late '90s.
For instance, you had The Simpsons and Married With Children instead of South Park and Family Guy.


I've lived in my house my whole life. I'd say my first memory is probably tied between going on vacation to the Poconoes when I was 2, going to a mommy and me program when I was 2 and starting Pre-K, and waking up in bed when I was 1. I have a really good memory.

In some ways, the "Pizza" days stretched until 2002. I have alot of memories of being at friends' houses wen I was in "older" elementary school and ordering pizza and watching people play Super Mario games, though we spent some time on the computer. I like the way you put the 1988-mid 1991 period as the most suburban. In most ways it was-the cities were at their most depopulated and there was a baby boom beginning that brought young families to the 'burbs in droves.

1988-1991 is like a "newer" '80s. Certainly, there weren't as many video arcades and there was alt rock, and computers, home video games, VCRs, calculators, cable, etc. became ubiquitous. With this stuff, it seems alot more like a modern version of say 1984-the VERY '80s period. Also, there were alot of things from then that were new and uncommon with the earlier '80s (at least in terms of extreme popularity): hair metal, the very ladylike and ra-ra fashions, R&B and alt rock, a generally darker feel, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, mainstream rap, prime-time animation, etc. But the overall culture was still the '80s. It's the very end of the '80s, but it's still the '80s. That's always the '80s I could get a feel for by being a suburban kid in the mid-late '90s, more than the classic '80s.

Do you think there's credence to saying the '80s was the absolute whitest, most suburban decade? The '60s '70s were very black with funk, soul, and disco, but the only black stars in the '80s were heavily sanitized, like Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston, or totally unique, like Prince. There were just as many suburbanites in the '90s and '00s as '80s, but the white suburban teen then had a total control over culture. Maybe it had something to do with Reagan.

1988-1991 is like a "newer" '80s. Certainly, there weren't as many video arcades and there was alt rock, and computers, home video games, VCRs, calculators, cable, etc. became ubiquitous. With this stuff, it seems alot more like a modern version of say 1984-the VERY '80s period. Also, there were alot of things from then that were new and uncommon with the earlier '80s (at least in terms of extreme popularity): hair metal, the very ladylike and ra-ra fashions, R&B and alt rock, a generally darker feel, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, mainstream rap, prime-time animation, etc. But the overall culture was still the '80s. It's the very end of the '80s, but it's still the '80s. That's always the '80s I could get a feel for by being a suburban kid in the mid-late '90s, more than the classic '80s.



I agree. I'd say 1988-1991 or early 1992 is mostly a transition peroid between the 80's and 90's. There were still alot of 80's trends but things started to tilt toward the 90's. For example power ballads became more acousitc("Every rose has it's thorn" by Poision, "More than words" by Extreme, and "Love song" by Tesla). And Gangsta rap started to pop up in '88 as well.

I've lived in my house my whole life. I'd say my first memory is probably tied between going on vacation to the Poconoes when I was 2, going to a mommy and me program when I was 2 and starting Pre-K, and waking up in bed when I was 1. I have a really good memory.

In some ways, the "Pizza" days stretched until 2002. I have alot of memories of being at friends' houses wen I was in "older" elementary school and ordering pizza and watching people play Super Mario games, though we spent some time on the computer. I like the way you put the 1988-mid 1991 period as the most suburban. In most ways it was-the cities were at their most depopulated and there was a baby boom beginning that brought young families to the 'burbs in droves.

1988-1991 is like a "newer" '80s. Certainly, there weren't as many video arcades and there was alt rock, and computers, home video games, VCRs, calculators, cable, etc. became ubiquitous. With this stuff, it seems alot more like a modern version of say 1984-the VERY '80s period. Also, there were alot of things from then that were new and uncommon with the earlier '80s (at least in terms of extreme popularity): hair metal, the very ladylike and ra-ra fashions, R&B and alt rock, a generally darker feel, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, mainstream rap, prime-time animation, etc. But the overall culture was still the '80s. It's the very end of the '80s, but it's still the '80s. That's always the '80s I could get a feel for by being a suburban kid in the mid-late '90s, more than the classic '80s.

Do you think there's credence to saying the '80s was the absolute whitest, most suburban decade? The '60s '70s were very black with funk, soul, and disco, but the only black stars in the '80s were heavily sanitized, like Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston, or totally unique, like Prince. There were just as many suburbanites in the '90s and '00s as '80s, but the white suburban teen then had a total control over culture. Maybe it had something to do with Reagan.


I definitely think the '80s were the "whitest" decade.  The '60s and '70s were very black, the '90s and moreso the '00s are very black, but the '80s were very white.  Even a lot of the black people in the '80s liked white music.

1988-1991 is more the end of the '80s, like you said, than the beginning of the '90s.  Very weak '80s, but '80s nonetheless. It's more like 1984 than 1994 overall.  MC Hammer, the B-52s, even early Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men tracks seem more tail-end '80s than primitive '90s.  The '90s (and in some ways, the '00s) really began with two albums: Nevermind and The Chronic.

I agree. I'd say 1988-1991 or early 1992 is mostly a transition peroid between the 80's and 90's. There were still alot of 80's trends but things started to tilt toward the 90's. For example power ballads became more acousitc("Every rose has it's thorn" by Poision, "More than words" by Extreme, and "Love song" by Tesla). And Gangsta rap started to pop up in '88 as well.


Yeah, it's more the end of the '80s than the beginning of the '90s, even if some (very) primitive '90s things were around.

Do you think there's credence to saying the '80s was the absolute whitest, most suburban decade? The '60s '70s were very black with funk, soul, and disco, but the only black stars in the '80s were heavily sanitized, like Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston, or totally unique, like Prince. There were just as many suburbanites in the '90s and '00s as '80s, but the white suburban teen then had a total control over culture. Maybe it had something to do with Reagan.


I just don't get how some people can remember things from when they were 1 or 2. The earliest I remember was aged 3 or 4...

But anyway, you raise a good point about the 80s being the 'whitest, most suburban decade.' I think, in some aspects, this relates to not so much culture but urban geography. The 80s were the height of Urban blight/delapidation - in other words, the cities were at their worst in the 80s with crime problems.etc, so the social nexus - which had shifted to the suburbs nearly 30 years before - was consolidated. Mainstream American culture has always predominantly been 'white', but the sheer dominance of suburban culture was probably the defining feature of the 70s and 80s. The cause of the increase influence of 'black' artists was in part caused by the adoption of a more 'urban lifestyle.'

I remember around 1993 and 1994 seeing a few '80s gems sticking around at some stores like K-Mart and Roses.

I definitely think the '80s were the "whitest" decade.  The '60s and '70s were very black, the '90s and moreso the '00s are very black, but the '80s were very white.  Even a lot of the black people in the '80s liked white music.

1988-1991 is more the end of the '80s, like you said, than the beginning of the '90s.  Very weak '80s, but '80s nonetheless. It's more like 1984 than 1994 overall.  MC Hammer, the B-52s, even early Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men tracks seem more tail-end '80s than primitive '90s.  The '90s (and in some ways, the '00s) really began with two albums: Nevermind and The Chronic.


It's a "modern" '80s with alot of proto-'90s stuff, or trends that began around 1988 and peaked c. 1994-1996.

It's a "modern" '80s with alot of proto-'90s stuff, or trends that began around 1988 and peaked c. 1994-1996.


Definitely. Just like 1998-9/10/01 is a more modern '90s.

I definitely think the '80s were the "whitest" decade.  The '60s and '70s were very black, the '90s and moreso the '00s are very black, but the '80s were very white.  Even a lot of the black people in the '80s liked white music.

1988-1991 is more the end of the '80s, like you said, than the beginning of the '90s.  Very weak '80s, but '80s nonetheless. It's more like 1984 than 1994 overall.  MC Hammer, the B-52s, even early Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men tracks seem more tail-end '80s than primitive '90s.  The '90s (and in some ways, the '00s) really began with two albums: Nevermind and The Chronic.


I think the main difference between say 1984 and 1991, even 1988 is that the 1988-1991 period was somewhat "blacker." For example, stuff like Whitney Houston, Boyz II Men, and true hip-hop and freestyle were becoming popular around 1988. The 1982-1987 period in some ways was PAINFULLY white suburban John Hughes teenager. Maybe it had something to do with having very white, old, suburban presidents like Reagan and Bush Sr. around, who had a very '50s view of America to an extent that lent itself well to the '80s. I also think the '10s will be very dominated by white music but give way to a new kind of black music, like the '50s and '80s did. Maybe part of it was a backlash against the extremely black '70s. The '50s-early '60s and '80s-early '90s together are probably the most suburban, whitest periods. The '20s-'40s period was black compared to the '50s, ultimately. I also think traditional black music hit a standstill in the early '80s after disco and funk died, after the blues, doo-wop, trad soul (a la Otis Redding) did. The 1986ish period saw the development of R&B (Whitney Houston typifies this) and rap into black cultural phenomenons.

I think the main difference between say 1984 and 1991, even 1988 is that the 1988-1991 period was somewhat "blacker." For example, stuff like Whitney Houston, Boyz II Men, and true hip-hop and freestyle were becoming popular around 1988. The 1982-1987 period in some ways was PAINFULLY white suburban John Hughes teenager. Maybe it had something to do with having very white, old, suburban presidents like Reagan and Bush Sr. around, who had a very '50s view of America to an extent that lent itself well to the '80s. I also think the '10s will be very dominated by white music but give way to a new kind of black music, like the '50s and '80s did. Maybe part of it was a backlash against the extremely black '70s. The '50s-early '60s and '80s-early '90s together are probably the most suburban, whitest periods. The '20s-'40s period was black compared to the '50s, ultimately. I also think traditional black music hit a standstill in the early '80s after disco and funk died, after the blues, doo-wop, trad soul (a la Otis Redding) did. The 1986ish period saw the development of R&B (Whitney Houston typifies this) and rap into black cultural phenomenons.


I agree.  The late '80s were definitely more urban.  Even really white music like Rick Astley had a "jungle" early '90s type beat to it.

I agree.  The late '80s were definitely more urban.  Even really white music like Rick Astley had a "jungle" early '90s type beat to it.



Yeah, probably because of rap reaching mainstream auidences in the late 80's.

They say Disco sort of helped break down barriers of sex, race.etc, whereas Punk/New Wave was a distinctly 'white phenomena' (especially Punk). Maybe that was part of the reason?

They say Disco sort of helped break down barriers of sex, race.etc, whereas Punk/New Wave was a distinctly 'white phenomena' (especially Punk). Maybe that was part of the reason?


New Wave is an extremely white thing, and MTV didn't help that.

Prince's Dirty Mind was a new wave-ish album by a black artist, so it really crossed boundaries. Other distinctively white movements include hair metal and indie rock (though it's gotten whiter since the mid-'90s.) Most popular '80s genres, like new wave and hair metal, are oh-so-white.

Prince's Dirty Mind was a new wave-ish album by a black artist, so it really crossed boundaries. Other distinctively white movements include hair metal and indie rock (though it's gotten whiter since the mid-'90s.) Most popular '80s genres, like new wave and hair metal, are oh-so-white.


The most urban decade, I'd say is the '70s, followed by the '00s.

The most urban decade, I'd say is the '70s, followed by the '00s.


The '90s were very urban in a more "raw" way, though. '00s urban culture picks up so much of the white suburban glam-rap version of urban culture now mass-produced among 17 year olds. But the '70s were by far the blackest and most urban decade. It's funny how people are influenced by their parents, most "urban-loving" suburban teens of the '00s have parents who are children of the '70s.

The '90s were very urban in a more "raw" way, though. '00s urban culture picks up so much of the white suburban glam-rap version of urban culture now mass-produced among 17 year olds. But the '70s were by far the blackest and most urban decade. It's funny how people are influenced by their parents, most "urban-loving" suburban teens of the '00s have parents who are children of the '70s.


Yeah, the '90s urban seemed more authentic.  Personally the decade seemed more suburban to me.  The '00s seem like the decade of the smaller city.

Yeah, the '90s urban seemed more authentic.  Personally the decade seemed more suburban to me.  The '00s seem like the decade of the smaller city.


It's hard to classify decades like that, though. It's more where the culture is coming from...this decade it's coming from smaller cities. The '80s it was coming from suburban areas.

The 90s were the decade of gangsta-rap...but they also saw a renewed interest in the city cities as vibrant, cosmpolitan centres of culture (this was mainly in suburbanised countries like Australia, Canada, NZ, the US). Everything city became 'chic'...the 'gangsta-rap' movement was in a way the flip-side to that. I think in the coming years we'll see a more inner city orientated, neo-Bohemian movement...

The 90s were the decade of gangsta-rap...but they also saw a renewed interest in the city cities as vibrant, cosmpolitan centres of culture (this was mainly in suburbanised countries like Australia, Canada, NZ, the US). Everything city became 'chic'...the 'gangsta-rap' movement was in a way the flip-side to that. I think in the coming years we'll see a more inner city orientated, neo-Bohemian movement...


That's called gentrification, sweetie, and I despise it.

Don't tell me, a semi-expert in the subject what it's called. I know it's called gentrificaition...not everyone else does anyway. Don't mind me, I can get quite defensive over things like this  ;D.

Yes, it's not to everyone's taste. But in cases I think it's a positive. Living in NJ you pbly see quite a few urban slums, and you realise it takes money to repair them, make them haif-decent...like it or not, that money has to come from rich yuppies. Though I support the move to integrate more public housing/affordable housing into these inner city estates, for it is often the more disadvantaged who require inner-city housing. The land values in those places are often unnaturally low due to the poor quality of the housing.

But in traditional communities, if the money etc. is available, and the community can get enough support, it is usually preferable to try and restore the decaying tenements as housing for locals.

Don't tell me, a semi-expert in the subject what it's called. I know it's called gentrificaition...not everyone else does anyway. Don't mind me, I can get quite defensive over things like this  ;D.

Yes, it's not to everyone's taste. But in cases I think it's a positive. Living in NJ you pbly see quite a few urban slums, and you realise it takes money to repair them, make them haif-decent...like it or not, that money has to come from rich yuppies. Though I support the move to integrate more public housing/affordable housing into these inner city estates, for it is often the more disadvantaged who require inner-city housing. The land values in those places are often unnaturally low due to the poor quality of the housing.

But in traditional communities, if the money etc. is available, and the community can get enough support, it is usually preferable to try and restore the decaying tenements as housing for locals.


It's also a different case in Jersey than down under...

Gentrification around here means you kick out the people who originally live in disadvantaged areas, put them in worse housing, and add a Starbucks and a bunch of yuppies and totally sanitize the area. And a bunch of hipsters and "nice" boutiques, and destroy all the area's character. And then build condos. Lots and lots of condos.

It's also a different case in Jersey than down under...

Gentrification around here means you kick out the people who originally live in disadvantaged areas, put them in worse housing, and add a Starbucks and a bunch of yuppies and totally sanitize the area. And a bunch of hipsters and "nice" boutiques, and destroy all the area's character. And then build condos. Lots and lots of condos.


Yes, I have heard the term 'gentrification' has a different meaning over in the States, and it's largely negative. What then, in your opinion, would be the best alternative to gentrification?

Yes, I have heard the term 'gentrification' has a different meaning over in the States, and it's largely negative. What then, in your opinion, would be the best alternative to gentrification?


Add jobs to the poor areas and make them middle-class.

Add jobs to the poor areas and make them middle-class.


How could you just magically 'add' jobs to make a place middle class? The first thing you have to do is actually make it amiable and attractive to ATTRACT businesses to the place...that's where you have to start. It's a bit like that here in Perth; it took gentrification - or I prefer the term 'Urban Renewal', to start up businesses in these areas. And as you know the service sector is becoming increasingly important. So it's easy and well to say just 'add' jobs, but it often has to come at a cost.

How could you just magically 'add' jobs to make a place middle class? The first thing you have to do is actually make it amiable and attractive to ATTRACT businesses to the place...that's where you have to start. It's a bit like that here in Perth; it took gentrification - or I prefer the term 'Urban Renewal', to start up businesses in these areas. And as you know the service sector is becoming increasingly important. So it's easy and well to say just 'add' jobs, but it often has to come at a cost.


Service sector jobs are what keep these people impoverished.

How so?

It's the changing nature of the economy...you can't help that.

How so?

It's the changing nature of the economy...you can't help that.


Yes, you can. The McDonald's jobs that have kept them down have been doing so for like 50 years.

Yes, you can. The McDonald's jobs that have kept them down have been doing so for like 50 years.


I think you're getting confused with the chicken and the egg. It's not working at below minimum wage jobs like Maccas which is keeping them down, but they are also so down they have no other choice. Before it might have been working at a sweat-shop or a factory, now it happens to be at a fast food restaurant. What probably needs to be done is public education, awareness of the opportunities, and more opportunities for these people.

I think you're getting confused with the chicken and the egg. It's not working at below minimum wage jobs like Maccas which is keeping them down, but they are also so down they have no other choice. Before it might have been working at a sweat-shop or a factory, now it happens to be at a fast food restaurant. What probably needs to be done is public education, awareness of the opportunities, and more opportunities for these people.


Actually, they were honestly better off previously working in the factories when they first came north. And have been impoverished for like forty years.

Actually, they were honestly better off previously working in the factories when they first came north. And have been impoverished for like forty years.


Though it's not stated explicity, I assume we are referring mainly to African Americans. In which case, in many ways the poverty has been more obvious because other socio-economic groups have progressively improved their lot, while many black neighbourhoods like Harlem or Trenton, NJ remained a stand-still. But believe me, a large proportion of these communities have been impoverished since they migrated to the factories.

Hate to break into it like this, but I started this topic to talk about 1989 and not political arguments.

As for 1989, I wish I were around for most of the '80s. I lived in the '80s, but only for about a month.

Hate to break into it like this, but I started this topic to talk about 1989 and not political arguments.

As for 1989, I wish I were around for most of the '80s. I lived in the '80s, but only for about a month.


That's better than being born in January 1990  ;)

Not my favorite 80's year as I had a bad teacher experience, but nostalgic nontheless as I was entering third grade.

We walked around EVERY single day, saying "this is 1989!", or "these are the late 80s!!"

;)


I know for me, not a day goes by that I don't stop someone and remind them that these are the '00s.  "hey dude, this is 2006!"

I swear I remember seeing a thread like this before, but I guess I'll talk a bit on here about 1989.

I can't pinpoint a lot of things that I remember about 1989, but some things stick out. Of course, as a California resident, the Loma Prieta Earthquake in October was very memorable. I have never forgotten that day. I was in roller skating that year. I started 2nd grade that fall. I remember being sick a lot. I always got tonsillitis, strep or scarlet fever. I think that year I got all three - esp. tonsillitis. I almost had to get my tonsils out due to my 3rd and actually last bout of it. Whew :0)

Hmmm, let's see ...

Here are some major events of 1989:

Japan's Emperor Hirohito dies
George Bush Sr. is inaugurated president of the USA
The tanker "Exxon Valdez" runs aground at Prince William Sound, creating possibly the worst oil spill ever
More than a thousand pro-democracy demonstrators are killed by Chinese troops at Beijing's Tienanmen Square, after days of protests
Hurricane Hugo strikes southeastern United States, killing at least 71 people and around $8 billion in damages
Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini dies
An earthquake near San Francisco claims 62 lives and around $7 billion in damages
Hockey star Wayne Gretzky of the L.A. Kings becomes the leading scorer in N.H.A. history
Communist leaders in East Germany, Czechoslovakia and Bulgaria resign after weeks of pro-democracy demonstrations
The Berlin Wall opens and is eventually dismantled
The USA invades Panama and installs a government headed by Guillermo Endara


The top 20 movies of 1989:

1 Batman $251.190
2 The Last Crusade $197.172
3 Lethal Weapon 2 $147.254
4 Look Who's Talking $140.089
5 Honey, Shrunk The Kids $130.724
6 Back To The Future 2 $118.500
7 Ghostbusters 2 $112.495
8 Little Mermaid $111.500
9 Driving Miss Daisy $106.593
10 Parenthood $100.050
11 Dead Poets' Society  $95.86
12 When Harry Met Sally  $92.82
13 War Of The Roses  $86.89
14 Steel Magnolias  $83.76
15 Christmas Vacation  $71.32
16 Turner & Hooch  $71.08
17 Born On The Fourth Of July  $70.00
18 Uncle Buck  $66.76
19 Field of Dreams  $64.43
20 Harlem Nights  $60.87

Source.

The top 20 songs of 1989:

1.  LOOK AWAY - Chicago
2.  MY PREROGATIVE - Bobby Brown
3.  EVERY ROSE HAS ITS THORN - Poison
4.  STRAIGHT UP - Paula Abdul
5.  MISS YOU MUCH - Janet Jackson
6.  COLD HEARTED - Paula Abdul
7.  WIND BENEATH MY WINGS - Bette Midler
8.  GIRL YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE - Milli Vanilli
9.  BABY, I LOVE YOUR WAY c/w FREEBIRD MEDLEY - Will To Power
10.  GIVING YOU THE BEST THAT I GOT - Anita Baker
11.  RIGHT HERE WAITING - Richard Marx
12.  WAITING FOR A STAR TO FALL - Boy Meets Girl
13.  LOST IN YOUR EYES - Debbie Gibson
14.  DON'T WANNA LOSE YOU - Gloria Estefan
15.  HEAVEN - Warrant
16.  GIRL I'M GONNA MISS YOU - Milli Vanilli
17.  THE LOOK - Roxette
18.  SHE DRIVES ME CRAZY - Fine Young Cannibals
19.  ON YOUR OWN - Bobby Brown
20.  TWO HEARTS - Phil Collins

Source.

I'm starting to think 80s and even 90s pop charts were as bad as the 00s...

I'm starting to think 80s and even 90s pop charts were as bad as the 00s...




Even oldies has bad pop charts.