It was really in late 1991, but I voted 1992 since that was the first year it beat it overall.

I don't think Grunge had much to do with the fall of New Wave.  In fact, Grunge and New Wave are kind of kindred spirits, both originating from Punk.

Grunge had nothing to do with punk (look, style, sound, etc., etc.). The two genre's are vastly different, like night and day. The only thing they have in common is their anger towards society at large but that can be found in many genre's of music not just those two.

But to answer the original question 1992 would be correct. "Hair" metal died a very fast painful death at the end of 1991. It was probably the quickest any genre' has died from the mainstream music (it still kind of existed, but went underground) in rock history.

Grunge had nothing to do with punk (look, style, sound, etc., etc.). The two genre's are vastly different, like night and day. The only thing they have in common is their anger towards society at large but that can be found in many genre's of music not just those two.

But to answer the original question 1992 would be correct. "Hair" metal died a very fast painful death at the end of 1991. It was probably the quickest any genre' has died from the mainstream music (it still kind of existed, but went underground) in rock history.


Thanks, sounds right 2 me :)

Don't you think New Wave had a much slower death?  Hell, with Depeche Mode and the Cure still being around, it's never really completely died.

I think hair metal was really dying before grunge became popular in 91-92, it was still hanging on, but it wasn't nearly as popular as it had been since before 1989.

You know, that is a very strange one. I remember back in 1985 - 86 or so, back in HS, New Wave was still very popular (mainly with girls). But by the time 1989 on rolled around, I really didn't see ot hear as much in the mainstream from the likes of Duran Duran, The Thompson Twins, etc. They were still around, but it seemed like new style neo R&B such as Bobby Brown and also "hair" metal kind of took the center stage until grunge in '92. So for me it was much less of a perceptible decline than "hair" metal was, which kind of disappeared overnight (quite literally. I mean it felt like it was here one moment and then was gone. Poof, like a ghost town or something). But, while I enjoyed New Wave, I wasn't a "New Waver" being an ex-"hair" metaler myself, so a genuine ex-"New Waver" (or "Waver" as they were also known) would probably be a better person to answer that. I just am going off of what I observed back then and not really being aligned  with that genre' personally.

You know, that is a very strange one. I remember back in 1985 - 86 or so, back in HS, New Wave was still very popular (mainly with girls). But by the time 1989 on rolled around, I really didn't see ot hear as much in the mainstream from the likes of Duran Duran, The Thompson Twins, etc. They were still around, but it seemed like new style neo R&B such as Bobby Brown and also "hair" metal kind of took the center stage until grunge in '92. So for me it was much less of a perceptible decline than "hair" metal was, which kind of disappeared overnight (quite literally. I mean it felt like it was here one moment and then was gone. Poof, like a ghost town or something). But, while I enjoyed New Wave, I wasn't a "New Waver" being an ex-"hair" metaler myself, so a genuine ex-"New Waver" (or "Waver" as they were also known) would probably be a better person to answer that. I just am going off of what I observed back then and not really being aligned  with that genre' personally.


Wouldn't you say New Wave continued to exist (albeit in a very reduced form) into the 1990s and 2000s?  I mean, for crying out loud, a lot of "indie rock" is really New Wave.

Perhaps, except for the fact that the term "New Wave" generally referred to bands (mainly of British origin) that started to hit the mainstream around the lates 70s early 80s with the heyday being 1982-1985 or so. And I think the term "New Wave" was invented because they were the new wave of British pop type bands to hit the market, the last being in the 1960s (Beatles, The Rolling Stones, etc.). They were mainly synth oriented and very well produced (technologically advanced production sound for the time)  as well.

Is there a lot of British synth type bands making the mainstream now? Maybe they are the "New New Wave", LOL.

Perhaps, except for the fact that the term "New Wave" generally referred to bands (mainly of British origin) that started to hit the mainstream around the lates 70s early 80s with the heyday being 1982-1985 or so. And I think the term "New Wave" was invented because they were the new wave of British pop type bands to hit the market, the last being in the 1960s (Beatles, The Rolling Stones, etc.). They were mainly synth oriented and very well produced (technologically advanced production sound for the time)  as well.

Is there a lot of British synth type bands making the mainstream now? Maybe they are the "New New Wave", LOL.




Well, the Killers are American, but they sound very British new-wavey. 
Also, the Postal Service have a very-'80s sound to them.  Yeah, it's the Neo-Wave  ;D

I was in high school when this happened..... 1992

One day I drove home from school, happy and content listening to my Guns N Roses and Bon Jovi.......
That night I witnessed "Smells like Teen Spirit" on MTV.....

when i came to school the next day everyone who had once been called Geek,nerd, or dork was wearing flannel...ripped jeans...and colored round glasses like John Lennon....

my world ended....... :-(

1992 was defidently the year for grunge. The albums that started the grunge movement(Nevermind,Ten,etc.) all came out in '91 but that year still had some hair metal hits("To Be With You" by Mr.Big was a pretty big hit that year I think). But by '92 just like you guys said it simply dissappeared.

1991.


The minute Nevermind hit the store shelves, Hair Metal's 15 minutes were sitting at 14:59.

I'd say a basically a decade's worth of music hardly qualifies as "15 minutes of fame". A band with a one hit wonder may, but usually not a musical genre' producing numerous platinum record sales and influencing a whole generation.

But you are accurate about the year 1991. It is when "hair" metal died it's death (in the mainstream, at least).

I'd say a basically a decade's worth of music hardly qualifies as "15 minutes of fame". A band with a one hit wonder may, but usually not a musical genre' producing numerous platinum record sales and influencing a whole generation.

But you are accurate about the year 1991. It is when "hair" metal died it's death (in the mainstream, at least).


Well, when I think "hair metal"  I think more from the 1986-1990 period.  Most pre-1986 metal is arena rock or another type of metal.

Well, when I think "hair metal"  I think more from the 1986-1990 period.  Most pre-1986 metal is arena rock or another type of metal.



Even though hair metal had been around for awhile before that '86-'89 was its absolute peak with the begining of its decline in 1990.

I'd say a basically a decade's worth of music hardly qualifies as "15 minutes of fame". A band with a one hit wonder may, but usually not a musical genre' producing numerous platinum record sales and influencing a whole generation.

But you are accurate about the year 1991. It is when "hair" metal died it's death (in the mainstream, at least).



The whole genre, much like disco and the swing movement in the 90s reeked of commercialization.  That's not to say that other genres don't suffer from that from time to time, but that one in particular seemed most vulnerable.  The music was popular, but vapid and empty.  In saying they only had 15 minutes of fame is saying that they had their time, but it ran out.  Disco produced numerous platinum albums and influenced a whole generation, but it too had it's 15 minutes. 

Even though hair metal had been around for awhile before that '86-'89 was its absolute peak with the begining of its decline in 1990.


Wouldn't you say its popularity was late 1986 to early 1991, but centered in late 1987-early 1989?  Whatever anyone says, it was not dead by 1990.  Look at the charts and you'll see why.  In it's decline, for sure, but it wasn't dead.

Wouldn't you say its popularity was late 1986 to early 1991, but centered in late 1987-early 1989?  Whatever anyone says, it was not dead by 1990.  Look at the charts and you'll see why.  In it's decline, for sure, but it wasn't dead.



No it wasnt dead Slaughter and Mr.Big both had hits in 1990.

No it wasnt dead Slaughter and Mr.Big both had hits in 1990.


Wouldn't you say Bon Jovi broke it in 1986 with Slippery When Wet?

Wouldn't you say Bon Jovi broke it in 1986 with Slippery When Wet?



Yeah that was really the crossover record. I also think Guns N' Roses helped it along in '87 with "Appitite for Destruction".

Yeah that was really the crossover record. I also think Guns N' Roses helped it along in '87 with "Appitite for Destruction".



I don't know if I'd call Guns 'n Roses "hair metal".

I don't know if I'd call Guns 'n Roses "hair metal".



They dont fully sound it but they often get lumped into the genre.

I remember when Bon Jovi released Keep the Faith in 1992 it was a big hit at least in Europe but it wasn't Hair Metal anymore. They had a new look with a bit shorter and styled hair.
I think Metallica and Nirvana became popular in the late 1991. Nirvana started to fade quite soon but Metallica remained the popularity. Personaly I never really liked Grunge. I liked too much 80s music even when it was out of style in the mid nineties. Post Grunge like Creed suited better for me. 

Grunge didn't really take off until 1991.  It's definately a music genre that I'd like to forget  ::)

Yeah that was really the crossover record. I also think Guns N' Roses helped it along in '87 with "Appitite for Destruction".
I was into the whole Glam metal thing from 1984/5 onwards.It was more or less unknown to the masses unti Bon Jovi - Slippery when wet came out.I remember the monsters of rock festival that year suddenly had loads of girlies with big hair in mini skirts and white stilleto's struggling through all the mud and being completely out of their depth when bands like Motorhead came on ! Very, very funny to watch I must say.  ;D
The album that really sent the whole Glam/hair metal thing huge in the U.K along with'Slippery' was definatly' Appitite for destruction' that album was absolutely massive here. Personally I remember it having the same effect that 'Nevermind' did when it came out. 

Edited to add Def Leppard - Hysteria. Which was another huge breakthrough album.

I still have to add one particular breakthrough song: Europe - The Final Countdown. In fall 1986 that and Bon Jovi's You give love a bad name were the songs I listed over and over again. I still think they are extremely good example of glam&hair metal.

1991.  But grunge killed hair metal once and for all, when Nirvana' album Nevermind came out.

"15 minutes of fame" denotes a very short time period of say 1-2 years of success. Such as a "one hit wonder" band that doesn't have a successful comeback album. Or someone like William Hung who just was in the spotlight for his "15 minutes" or so.

To get back on topic, I believe what is now referred to as "hair" metal or  "glam" metal really got it's start in 1981 with Motley Crue's "Too Fast For Love". It didn't take long for them to get signed to a major record company label after that and the rest is history. The genre' really started to gain momentum in 1983 with Quiet Riot's "Metal Health" (now there is a prime example of "15 minutes of fame", although they existed in another incarnation prior to that record for some years back), Def Leppard's "Pyromania" (there is some debate on whether DL should be lumped together with your typical "hair" band, but we will here just for arguement's sake) and Motley Crue's "Shout At The Devil" (stupid title, BTW). And in 85-86 the "hair" band genre' became mainstream and totally commercial with "cookie cutter" bands surfacing everywhere for their "15 minutes of fame" also which lasted the rest of the "ride" until it's demise in '91-92.

So let's count the years. 1981-1991. Sounds like basically a full decade to me. Let's take the Disco example. Maybe 1975 or 76 to around '81 (yes, Donna Summer had a hit in '83, but I am not going to count that one as it could be considered "pop" "Top 40" also and not just straight Disco). Sounds like "hair" (remember the term was a '90s invention. It was just considerd "Heavy Metal" or plain "Metal" back in it's day) metal was around a little longer than "15 minutes".

"New Wave" I recall as being bands such as Blondie, The Cars, The Police, Sniff N' The Tears, Gary Numan (or was he more properly described as Punk?), etc, as well as all the aforementioned bands. Some of my all-time favorite songs are from that genre.

Hair metal peaked, I think, from about 86-88, it was in serious decline until 1991 when it abruptly died. According to en.wikipedia.org, it had ceased to be commercially viable starting in 1989. Not to say that it wasn't still widely popular, but it was an aging trend, certainly.

The whole genre, much like disco and the swing movement in the 90s reeked of commercialization.  That's not to say that other genres don't suffer from that from time to time, but that one in particular seemed most vulnerable.  The music was popular, but vapid and empty.


As they say, hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think many hair metal fans would have agreed with your assertion in, say, 1988.  ;) I don't know. Like so many things that were hot at the time, I didn't have a personal connection with most glam stuff, so I could have cared less. Whitesnake and the like didn't seem like "rock and roll" to me. Classic rock was more my speed, but I was an oddball, so my observations may or may not hold any water. All I know is that I didn't see many grunge or punk/new wave fans at school prior to Nirvana. Bon Jovi was about as hip as it got.

I do know that the tide had turned big time by early '92 after "Nevermind" had taken hold of the collective conciousness of my classmates. Suddenly (or so it seemed), Alice In Chains t-shirts were everywhere. You get the picture. Looking back, it was a massive shift in the "cool" factor. 









 

I do know that the tide had turned big time by early '92 after "Nevermind" had taken hold of the collective conciousness of my classmates. Suddenly (or so it seemed), Alice In Chains t-shirts were everywhere. You get the picture. Looking back, it was a massive shift in the "cool" factor.   



Yep and there hasn't been another massive shift in such a short peroid of time since.

Yep and there hasn't been another massive shift in such a short peroid of time since.


I think 1997 and 1999 changed a lot, but they didn't really get rid of old stuff, but rather brought in new stuff.

I think 1997 and 1999 changed a lot, but they didn't really get rid of old stuff, but rather brought in new stuff.



Yeah there were alot of changes in the late-90's but nothing has ever been as massive as 1991.

Yeah there were alot of changes in the late-90's but nothing has ever been as massive as 1991.


I second that.

Wow, the power of the media and the willingness of the masses.....

Yeah there were alot of changes in the late-90's but nothing has ever been as massive as 1991.


Which is why I contest that 1993 is the real beginning of the 21st Century.  I mean 9/11 was huge, but to most people it means little more than a really bad day and a different thing on CNN when you come down to it.

There've been a few really big shifts in the "cool" factor, I think '81 or '82 was a big shift. '92 was another big one, and I think '02 or '03 was a minor shift. The biggest shift was definitely in '64, what was cool in '64 was pretty damn big in difference from what was in '63, and I think '73 or '74 was the one that got rid of the '60s. I think we had been shifting into the 21st century slowly since the 1980s, the very early digital age and the outphasing of 20th century late industrial age stuff began then. The shift accelerated rapidly in the late '90s.

I think we had been shifting into the 21st century slowly since the 1980s


Which is why '80s tech is so laughable.  People accept that the '60s and '70s had crappy technology, but the fact that the '80s actually did have really crappy computers, games, even Internet makes it extremely laughable and cheesy.

Which is why I contest that 1993 is the real beginning of the 21st Century.  I mean 9/11 was huge, but to most people it means little more than a really bad day and a different thing on CNN when you come down to it.



1993 was the year that we shifted to the 21st Century from a technological stand point without a doubt. Things began to rapidly advance in that year and by 9/11 all the tech we use today was pretty much well in place.

I've always said it takes two things for a trend of any kind to die -- (1) for that stuff to fade away on its own, and (2) something else to take its place.

The former started happening around 1989 to hair metal (by then, it was mostly power ballads, and crops of - while certainly not BAD - definitely soundalike bands). The initial wave of success by Bon Jovi, Whitesnake and Def Leppard was dying down.

However it was still a big enough draw in 1990 and most of '91. I do wonder how long it would've lasted had grunge not exploded. I still think it would've been gone by '93 or '94 at the latest.

BTW, does anyone think Guns & Roses and maybe Skid Row were like a pathway to what became grunge? They fit the hairband scene, but were rougher in a streetwise sense, and less glammy/poppy. Maybe "November Rain" type stuff is what '90s hard rock without grunge would've been.

I've always said it takes two things for a trend of any kind to die -- (1) for that stuff to fade away on its own, and (2) something else to take its place.

The former started happening around 1989 to hair metal (by then, it was mostly power ballads, and crops of - while certainly not BAD - definitely soundalike bands). The initial wave of success by Bon Jovi, Whitesnake and Def Leppard was dying down.

However it was still a big enough draw in 1990 and most of '91. I do wonder how long it would've lasted had grunge not exploded. I still think it would've been gone by '93 or '94 at the latest.

BTW, does anyone think Guns & Roses and maybe Skid Row were like a pathway to what became grunge? They fit the hairband scene, but were rougher in a streetwise sense, and less glammy/poppy. Maybe "November Rain" type stuff is what '90s hard rock without grunge would've been.


Probably. Although really, all the hair bands were kind of controversial in nature; grunge was more pc.  But Grunge is "dirtier" sounding, like G&R, so they definitely paved the way, along with Jane's Addiction-type stuff.  1988-1991 was sort of a mix of hair metal and this kind of stuff.

I've always said it takes two things for a trend of any kind to die -- (1) for that stuff to fade away on its own, and (2) something else to take its place.

The former started happening around 1989 to hair metal (by then, it was mostly power ballads, and crops of - while certainly not BAD - definitely soundalike bands). The initial wave of success by Bon Jovi, Whitesnake and Def Leppard was dying down.

However it was still a big enough draw in 1990 and most of '91. I do wonder how long it would've lasted had grunge not exploded. I still think it would've been gone by '93 or '94 at the latest.

BTW, does anyone think Guns & Roses and maybe Skid Row were like a pathway to what became grunge? They fit the hairband scene, but were rougher in a streetwise sense, and less glammy/poppy. Maybe "November Rain" type stuff is what '90s hard rock without grunge would've been.


Yeah, 1989 was sort of like 2005 to nu metal.  Stuff like "Scars" by Papa Roach is really analogous to songs like "Heaven" by Warrant.

The absolute peak of raw hair metal was like late 1986 to early 1989.

^True. I'd actually say hair metal had three stages.

1983 or so to mid '86 was the real "raw" stage - stuff like Twisted Sister, Scorpions and Ratt. Toward the end of '86, 1987 and probably '88 too (though that's borderline) was the "Bon Jovi" era when it was really commercial but before it went to the splitoff of power ballads and copycat bands, versus more "tough" GNR metal.

I've always said it takes two things for a trend of any kind to die -- (1) for that stuff to fade away on its own, and (2) something else to take its place.

The former started happening around 1989 to hair metal (by then, it was mostly power ballads, and crops of - while certainly not BAD - definitely soundalike bands). The initial wave of success by Bon Jovi, Whitesnake and Def Leppard was dying down.

However it was still a big enough draw in 1990 and most of '91. I do wonder how long it would've lasted had grunge not exploded. I still think it would've been gone by '93 or '94 at the latest.

BTW, does anyone think Guns & Roses and maybe Skid Row were like a pathway to what became grunge? They fit the hairband scene, but were rougher in a streetwise sense, and less glammy/poppy. Maybe "November Rain" type stuff is what '90s hard rock without grunge would've been.


That's definitely true about the two stages of trends dying...

BTW, does anyone think Guns & Roses and maybe Skid Row were like a pathway to what became grunge? They fit the hairband scene, but were rougher in a streetwise sense, and less glammy/poppy. Maybe "November Rain" type stuff is what '90s hard rock without grunge would've been.


G&R, yes. Skid Row, no.

G&R brought back the more "rock n roll" 70s type sound and look (some liken them to '70s era Aerosmith) with some '80s flavor mixed in, of course, since it was the 80s when they were introduced. But I have always said that G&R brought about their own demise with what they did with their sound and style. It basically paved the way for the rest of the "hair" bands to stop using as much hairspray, grow their bangs out, put on more jeans and t-shirts and that made the grunge look to take hold that much easier when it did.

On the other hand, Skid Row is definitely a "hair" band and I don't put them in the same category as G&R.

^True. I'd actually say hair metal had three stages.

1983 or so to mid '86 was the real "raw" stage - stuff like Twisted Sister, Scorpions and Ratt. Toward the end of '86, 1987 and probably '88 too (though that's borderline) was the "Bon Jovi" era when it was really commercial but before it went to the splitoff of power ballads and copycat bands, versus more "tough" GNR metal.


That sounds aboot right.

1989 to the summer of 1991 is the wane stage, but hair metal did not become truly unpopular until fall of 1991 or even early 1992.  By 1994, there were no traces of it left.

G&R, yes. Skid Row, no.

G&R brought back the more "rock n roll" 70s type sound and look (some liken them to '70s era Aerosmith) with some '80s flavor mixed in, of course, since it was the 80s when they were introduced. But I have always said that G&R brought about their own demise with what they did with their sound and style. It basically paved the way for the rest of the "hair" bands to stop using as much hairspray, grow their bangs out, put on more jeans and t-shirts and that made the grunge look to take hold that much easier when it did.

On the other hand, Skid Row is definitely a "hair" band and I don't put them in the same category as G&R.


Even by heavy metal standards, Axl Rose was pretty destructive (heck, the whole band was). I do believe the very late '80s/early '90s (certainly by '92) was when people in general started realizing AIDS was no joke and it became a real threat. Enough to change people's lifestyles.

I think that might've played at least some part in rock not being about sex nearly as much - which of course was a big thing in hair metal anyway. Odd to think a disease might've inadvertantly made music take a shift.

P.S. Skid Row were pretty hair metal, but I still thought they were harder (lyrically and imagewise) than, say Winger and Poison.

Even by heavy metal standards, Axl Rose was pretty destructive (heck, the whole band was). I do believe the very late '80s/early '90s (certainly by '92) was when people in general started realizing AIDS was no joke and it became a real threat. Enough to change people's lifestyles.

I think that might've played at least some part in rock not being about sex nearly as much - which of course was a big thing in hair metal anyway. Odd to think a disease might've inadvertantly made music take a shift.

P.S. Skid Row were pretty hair metal, but I still thought they were harder (lyrically and imagewise) than, say Winger and Poison.


You know what's funny?  The '90s was generally very non-sexual, because of AIDS.  Until the end of the decade (maybe 1999ish, perhaps '97 or '98), girls dressed less "slutty" then in the '80s or now.  Maybe that's why the '90s had such a masculine feel to them.

The '90s was the lowpoint for gay culture because of AIDS, alot of older people were dying and younger people weren't coming out onto the party scene as much...the '00s has been a revival of that and HIV infection rates have been rising again, but nothing like the '70s, the most sexualized decade in human history and the most there probably ever will be.

There've been a few really big shifts in the "cool" factor, I think '81 or '82 was a big shift. '92 was another big one, and I think '02 or '03 was a minor shift.

In the 21st century there haven't been any shifts in the music scene - It's all about Hip-hop and RMB. I also think there won't be any new Rock or pop styles because all the young people listen to Rap-related stuff. Pop music is not A-ha's take on me sounding songs anymore. It's rap music nowadays.  :-\\ Sad but true.

In the 21st century there haven't been any shifts in the music scene - It's all about Hip-hop and RMB. I also think there won't be any new Rock or pop styles because all the young people listen to Rap-related stuff. Pop music is not A-ha's take on me sounding songs. It's rap music nowadays.  :-\\ Sad but true.


I freaking LOVE "Take on Me"!

Maroon 5 keep the melodies alive :)