I don't know if this topic has come up since the new board, but...

Did you or your family own any home computers during the 80s, and if so, what were they?

My family started the early 80s (or maybe late 70s) with a Tandy TRS-80 Model I. When my Dad eventually got a Model III, I got the Model I. You had to program it in BASIC, but you could load programs off a cassette tape (we never had the disk drives for it) or you could type in programs from a book and save them to tape. He still has the Model III in the closet, and it mostly works as of a couple of years ago.

The screens on these computers were monochrome black and white, and I so longed for either a Macintosh or a Commodore Amiga. Then, after seeing "War Games" I wanted a modem and all that other cool stuff the kid had in the movie. Now all of that is pretty much standard.

In the late 80s we had the Tandy 1000, which was an IBM-Compatible (don't see that term anymore). I spent endless hours playing Space Quest and other "Quest" adventure games, and I was frustrated because BASIC was too slow to make my own versions of these games.

:D

Our first computer was an Atari 600XL that my younger brother had won. It came with the Atari 1050 Disk Drive (lucky us), but without a screen for some reason. :-\\
Having a disk drive STILL meant LOTS of programming (in Atari BASIC, which was slightly different) but at least we had some storage capacity. (We laugh about that now: SingleSided SingleDensity floppy's - You can't even buy them anymore!)
And then frustration would strike: the program didn't run.... Because you typed it in wrong or it had some weird line(s) in it (remember you had to number the lines!) or there was a 0 instead of an O somewhere or a point instead of a comma.....man, ANYTHING could be wrong! Most frustrating part was when everything seemed OK and it STILL wouldn't run!! >:( >:(

By the way: we still have the computer, though needless to say we don't use it anymore. ;)

We got an Apple in the very early 80's. I've tried to look it up but really don't know which model it was. It had a green on black screen and we played stuff like "Wavy Navy" on it. We also had a strip poker game where this woman undressed slowly... ha ha! It was like "Wow"!!!

For a look at Wavy Navy : - http://www.atarimagazines.com/cva/v1n2/wavynavy.php

Round about 1986/7 we purchased a Commodore 128, where is it now?
http://www.vgmuseum.com/systems/c128/c128a.jpg

About the earliest I remember is the Amstrad. Before then it was just a crappy PC like the one shown above. With a monochrome monitor and the like.

About the earliest I remember is the Amstrad. Before then it was just a crappy PC like the one shown above. With a monochrome monitor and the like.
For Commodore 128 the monitor was a TV and theerfore had colour.

Our first computer was an Atari 600XL that my younger brother had won. It came with the Atari 1050 Disk Drive (lucky us), but without a screen for some reason. :-\\


I remember now you had to connect it to your TV. And we also got this cartridge with it: "Music Composer", which was really cool (back then, of course). Again, this was very time consuming, as you had to type EVERY SINGLE note of the tune you wanted to play, which took FOREVER... :D

Apple Computer

1986(?) : Leading Edge model D with 5.25" 720k floppy(wow), 40Mb HDD(double wow) & 512k RAM, later upgraded to 640K. Had Lotus 123, Wordstar, Wordperfect, BattleHawks 1942 game, Microprose Gunship & F-15 Strike Eagle II games. Star NX-1000  dot-matrix printer(still have it, still use it), Thompson model 4460D EGA dual scan color monitor(Niece has it, still works). In 1989(?) upgraded to a custom built tower unit with 3.5" & 5.25" floppies, still had same crappy HDD, upgraded RAM to 1024K, added PC tools software, a mouse card & mouse, Kraft(I think) 2-button joystick(OOoooOOOO, Ahhhhh).

  I now have 10, I think, lemme count, yep 10 PC's ranging from the 1980's to 1999. The oldest is probably a Commodore PC-20-III, 10Mb HDD, 5.25" floppy. It's fun to see the advances throughout the years.

 

The only time I saw a computer in the 80s was at school.

Room for a new 80's dude in here? :D  Think I went through all the Commodore computers. I remember my best bud and I racing home from school to type in those pages and pages of code for the simple games on the Vic-20 only to lose it when we turned the computer off. Loved the 128 with the GEOS operating environment!

Jerry

The first computer I used was my brother Sinclair ZX81.  I remeber sitting at home endlessly typing in the machine code to get it to do the simplest of things.  His big project was a white noise and pink noise generator.  Weeks of work and then when he connected it all up my mum was most disappointed she dismissed with a single sentence "Is that all it does, buzzes?"!!!

In 1988-89, when I was in third grade, we used Apple II-e computers and played math-related games on them. Also, I did simple programming in LOGO for a few weeks. That was the first kind of computer I ever remember using.

Would Atari count as a computer? ???

Would Atari count as a computer?

  I suppose so. Certainly the later ones. Definately the Atari ST line since it does have its own OS(TOS). I suppose even a lowly 2600 too because you can do some simple programming on it.

Would Atari count as a computer? ???


Used to use an Atari to do the books at night at one of the jobs I had. That was a cool computer!

I stil use a Commodore 60.  This modem was a biatch to hook up!

the computer I have still and my faverite and still got all the games, my computer was and still is
Commodore 128D and my old 1702 Monitor and 1541-II and 1541-I, 1581 floppy disk drive 3 1/2 floppy and a Gemstik,and the manuals, man if I can I would goback in time see 80's again
I was born 1970, in the 1980 I was 10 years old on that time,  with lots of frends back then
:\'(
from Larry

I stil use a Commodore 60.  This modem was a biatch to hook up!


Hey man...was that the beige 300 baud modem that came with Q-Link?  Didn't know what this on line thing was back then but sounded cool to me. The parental units weren't going to hear of it though  :-\\  So I had to return it. And didn't Q-Link evolve into AOL or Prodigy or one of those?

the computer I have still and my faverite and still got all the games, my computer was and still is
Commodore 128D and my old 1702 Monitor and 1541-II and 1541-I, 1581 floppy disk drive 3 1/2 floppy and a Gemstik,and the manuals, man if I can I would goback in time see 80's again
I was born 1970, in the 1980 I was 10 years old on that time,  with lots of frends back then
:\'(
from Larry



LOL! Remember Marble Madness for the 128? I used to plug my Atari 2600 joystick into the Commodore and play that thing till my hands were so sore I couldn't move. Never did get past the 5th screen of that. Cool game!

LOL! Remember Marble Madness for the 128? I used to plug my Atari 2600 joystick into the Commodore and play that thing till my hands were so sore I couldn't move. Never did get past the 5th screen of that. Cool game!
Marble Madness, I have forgotten all about that!
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/screens/M/yMarble_Madness.png

LOL! Remember Marble Madness for the 128? I used to plug my Atari 2600 joystick into the Commodore and play that thing till my hands were so sore I couldn't move. Never did get past the 5th screen of that. Cool game!


I also used to have an Atari 2600 long time ago.That was a cool computer but the graphics stunk. ;D

Marble Madness, I have forgotten all about that!
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/screens/M/yMarble_Madness.png


Cool game, huh? What was the highest level you were able to get to? I got it again on a compilation for PS 2 but it's not the same with the stupid controller. You need a  trackball or joystick. I can't play it with PS's controller.  :\'(

Hey Howard....the graphics weren't the greatest but we had a blast staying up all night playing the games. Will never forget the endless hours of playing Pitfall on that console.

Cool game, huh? What was the highest level you were able to get to? I got it again on a compilation for PS 2 but it's not the same with the stupid controller. You need a  trackball or joystick. I can't play it with PS's controller.  :\'(
It was so long ago, I cannot remember now.

Hey Howard....the graphics weren't the greatest but we had a blast staying up all night playing the games. Will never forget the endless hours of playing Pitfall on that console.



Also don't forget Pac Man,Donkey Kong and Asteroids. :)

My family bought an Apple II, though we didn't really mess with it much.  It sat unused for a few years until it was packed back up and sent to an upstairs closet.           

It's still up there somewhere. :)

Asteroids rocked! I'm gonna have to pull out those games for the PS 2 tonight. Wish Donkey Kong was ported over to thet PS...maybe it was, I'll have to look. That was fun!  Don't forget Frogger and Centipede and Q Bert!

So many Apple II's people had. I wanted one but the parental units wouldn't buy it.

Marble Madness, I have forgotten all about that!
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/screens/M/yMarble_Madness.png

I had little computer people my faverite game too and maniac Mansion and Zak Mckracken, cool and yea I member that game Marble Madness,

I had a Commodore 64 and Atari 2600.  I loved Circus Atari.  In fact, I just bought the paddle joystick with the games all included that you can hook up to your TV.  I had so much fun with my volume loud and popping balloons that made cute 'ding' 'ding' sounds  :)

As for the Commodore, I loved tons of games including that game that the my sig points out and Bruce Lee and Pole Position.  Thanks to Emulators, I can now play those games again  ;D

Would Atari count as a computer? ???

I remember in 1982 or 83 I read a little pamphlet from Atari promoting cartridges they had. One of them was a Basic Computing cartridge that used a keyboard that you plugged in where the controller went! I wanted one of those, but we never knew where we could get that. It's funny how you could get these pamphlets at stores, but the same store didn't have all those things that were in the pamphlets.   :D

I had an Amstrad CPC464 - 64k of raw power!!!! My dad still has it.  ;D

I played Joe Blade 3 for hours!!!! Had quality games like Smash TV, Ghosts 'n' Goblins, Krakout and Fantasy World Dizzy.  8)

My uncle has a Spectrum +2 128k. Great but the graphics capability was shocking.  ;D

I loved playing games like R-type, Ghouls 'n' Ghosts, Bubble Bobble, Rainbow Islands, Rick Dangerous and the Dizzy games (Magicland Dizzy was my ultimate favourite  8)).

I guess this sort of relates since you played it on a computer. Maybe we should start a video game thread?

Leisure Suit Larry...was that an 80's game? I never got to play it since I'm a Mac head but I remember co-workers going on about it. Sounded fun.

Leisure Suit Larry...was that an 80's game?

  Yep, it sure was.(still is?) The first 3 of the series came out in succesive years: 1987, '88 & '89.
 
  I have Larry1, 2, 3, &5. There wasn't a 4. #5 of the series was released in 1991. I still need 6. I'll

procure one from eBay someday.

  If you enjoy adventure games, these are a must-have, IMO. The Space Quest, King's Quest &       

Police Quest series' are also well done.

I had an Atari 130XE.  I hated it at the time because I was an impatient kid but now I'd give anything to have it back in the condition it was in.  I gave it away in the 80's and managed to get the keyboard/computer back, but the disk drive is gone along with the games I had.  I remember I used to love "Fight Night", a boxing game where you could customize and build you own boxers...pretty cool for the time!  Also, there was this one game, if you wanna call it that, where there were these scientific experiments you could do, but I never could figure out how to use it.  I'd love to know the name of it though.  Probably the ALL TIME BEST game on that computer (and of any computer game I've ever played) was BOULDERDASH!!! I LOVED THAT GAME!!!!!

Also, there was this one game, if you wanna call it that, where there were these scientific experiments you could do, but I never could figure out how to use it.  I'd love to know the name of it though. 


That sounds cool!

i'd be eternally grateful if i could speak to someone else who had that Atari130XE and knows about that game i was referring to above!!!!!!    ;D

Ah, the Commodore 64. Still got mine somewhere, and I bet it still works too. There's a group here in Kansas City that still uses them exclusively. They write all the software themselves, and I think they even manage to get on the Internet with them somehow.  :o

Ah, the Commodore 64. Still got mine somewhere, and I bet it still works too. There's a group here in Kansas City that still uses them exclusively. They write all the software themselves, and I think they even manage to get on the Internet with them somehow.  :o


They probably do. Last summer I googledCommodore and the old GEOS operating system put out by Berkeley Softworks I used on it and there was A LOT many people were doing with it including getting on line. I wish I could find my 128 just for fun. Don't know what I did with it or the GEOS operating system.

I didn't OWN a computer of my own till 2002...

But I used during the 80's

in 1985 the Commodore 64...played this highly addictive game called Lightsaver,where one had to catch the lightbulbs before they fell to the bottom of the screen and got destroyed...

the Apple II Plus...ugly but did the stuff I wanted it to do...did some programming in BASIC and wrote my own trivia game...

and in 1988...I used the Apple IIGS....with Print Shop,World Games,Deluxe Paint 2,and one REALLY cool game called GAUNTLET...

I didn't OWN a computer of my own till 2002...

But I used during the 80's

in 1985 the Commodore 64...played this highly addictive game called Lightsaver,where one had to catch the lightbulbs before they fell to the bottom of the screen and got destroyed...

the Apple II Plus...ugly but did the stuff I wanted it to do...did some programming in BASIC and wrote my own trivia game...

and in 1988...I used the Apple II GS....with Print Shop,World Games,Deluxe Paint 2,and one REALLY cool game called GAUNTLET...
My current computer is my peppy lil' Compaq Presario....which is actually UPGRADEABLE

I didn't own a computer until I was 17 (1999), but I used to go over to my best friends house and play on her computer. I remember they owned a Goldstar brand. I remember a computer having over 100 megabytes was a big deal and they were one of the few people who had one of those. My computers at school were rare to go on. When I was in 1st grade (1987/1988), they use to let a few select kids go on the few computers they could afford and let them use them for an hour or so. I remember they treated this with a lot of delicacy, as owning computers then cost a lot of money for a private school. When I got into a public school, we had computer class every Tuesday or something, and we had to make designs and things on some old Macs. That was 1992.

As far as video games go, we had some huge floppy disc system thingy that had a joystick (I don't know what it was called), and it played very primitive games. Then we upgraded to a Sega Mastersystem (I believe that was 8 bits) and I played on that thing a lot until we got the regular Nintendo and then I got hooked on Super Mario Bros and Donkey Kong. That was all between 1985 and 1990.

My current computer is my peppy lil' Compaq Presario....which is actually UPGRADEABLE


Wasn't there a game called Paper Airplane for the Apple? You had to fly through the house go upstairs and stuff, avoiding crashing into stuff and the heat vents would blow hot air which would push you up...that was a fun game.

Hey man...was that the beige 300 baud modem that came with Q-Link?  Didn't know what this on line thing was back then but sounded cool to me. The parental units weren't going to hear of it though  :-\\  So I had to return it. And didn't Q-Link evolve into AOL or Prodigy or one of those?


Q-Link (QuantumLink) was the first "online" service for the Commodore.  It started in 1985, and the software was bundled with GEOS, a Windowed operating system for the Commodore 64.  It was similar to the other 2 major online services at the time (CompuServe and The Source), but instead of a "per hour" charge, it was flat rate, at something like $14.95 a month.

When GEOS made a version of their OS for Apple, they opened "AppleLink", and for the Tandy DeskMate OS they made "PC-Link".  The IBM PS/1 had a service called "Promenade".  In 1991, they cancelled QuantumLink and AppleLink.  Promenade was already cancelled, since the year before IBM and Sears teamed up to create Prodigy.  QuantumLink changed their name to "America On-Line".

http://www.bytemeelectronics.com:81/Quantum/q-link/qlink.htm

The Source lasted until 1989, when it was bought out by CompuServe.  CompuServe was bought by AOL in 1997.

Wow, how to answer this one...

Well, since my mom was a programmer, I first started to work on computers around 1972.  I would help my mom keypunch data onto 80 column cards.  And sometimes I would get to play around on the CRT that was connected to the mainframe.  :)

We got a Commodore PET in 1979.  That was replaced by a VIC-20 in 1981.  I bought my own VIC-20 in December 1982.  I still remember typing in the programs from Compute Gazette magazine.  :)  And playing "Blue Meanies From Outer Space".

Then in 1984, I got a Commodore 64.  I had the tape deck (leftover from the VIC), a 1541 floppy drive, and an Okidata OkiMate 10 color printer (3 color ribon, SLOW!).  I think the 2 games that got the most useage back then was MULE and Bard's Tale.  My wife knew that when I was in the garage playing my game, do not bother me unless I have been in there at least an hour.  That was my "destress" time after work.

Whenever I went home on leave, I would use my mom's "new computer".  She and I had both worked on the Lisa, and she was excited at having the first Macintosh sold in the state of Idaho.  :)  When she retired, she continued to be a Mac fanatic for the rest of her life, working her way through every generation of Mac.

Finally in 1990, I bought my first PC.  A Franklin PC-8000.  I had worked on PCs before in the military, but this was the first one I owned.  4.77 MHz 8088 CPU, 2 5.25" floppy disks, CGA card and a green screen monitor.  I bought some items from military surplus, including a Zenith 2400 buad modem, and a 40 MB SCSI drive.

That was when I really got into hardware.  Over the next few years I upgraded until I ran a BBS, and built the most powerful computer of the day.  An Intel 80486 CPU that ran at 50 MHz (not a DX2-50, a true 50 MHz), 8 megs of RAM, and a 700 MB SCSI-II hard drive.  Now that was a beast.  Full Height (that is the height of 2 CD-ROM drives), and weighted around 15 lbs!  It cost me around $800 (which was a steal in 1992!).  In fact, everybody thought I was crazy, telling me "There is no way you will EVER need 700 megabytes!"  Of course, now I have more system RAM then that hard drive had in stroage capacity.  8)

...snip...

Whenever I went home on leave, I would use my mom's "new computer".  She and I had both worked on the Lisa, and she was excited at having the first Macintosh sold in the state of Idaho.  :)  When she retired, she continued to be a Mac fanatic for the rest of her life, working her way through every generation of Mac.



Cool that you have a "Think Different" mom. It was my Dad that got me into Macs. Being an old Radio Shack guy he used to use Tandy computers, but when they stopped making them he switched to the Mac. I've been a Mac user ever since.



Finally in 1990, I bought my first PC.  A Franklin PC-8000.  I had worked on PCs before in the military, but this was the first one I owned.  4.77 MHz 8088 CPU, 2 5.25" floppy disks, CGA card and a green screen monitor.  I bought some items from military surplus, including a Zenith 2400 buad modem, and a 40 MB SCSI drive.



I was in the military the first time I ever used email or a Web browser. I thought email was the most magnicficent thing, but I thought it, along with Netscape and the Internet (which turned out to be a government intranet) was only a military thing. I was blown away when I went to college and discovered the "real" Internet.

Anyone here ever think the Apple IIGS was cool? I did!

  I suppose so. Certainly the later ones. Definately the Atari ST line since it does have its own OS(TOS). I suppose even a lowly 2600 too because you can do some simple programming on it.


Actually, you can do more than simple programming on the 2600 these days. There are massive amounts of tools and resources for the machine on the net. But it's a REAL pain, as the hardware is VERY obscure, limited and primitive. Quite the challenge for the hacker :)

We didn't own a computer until the late 80s, when we got an Atari 800XL. When I was around 8, I got addicted to Space Invaders and took a four week computer class where I learned BASIC on a Commodore PET. I was more interested in playing PET Invaders! Later, I had access to TRS-80 Model 3 & 4 computers at school, and an Apple IIc at the elementary school across the street. I cut my teeth on those, writing simple games in BASIC, then later, assembly language. I never made a career out of it, but I did work in coin-operated amusements for five years :)

Cool that you have a "Think Different" mom. It was my Dad that got me into Macs. Being an old Radio Shack guy he used to use Tandy computers, but when they stopped making them he switched to the Mac. I've been a Mac user ever since.


That all depends on what you mean by "Think Different".  From around 1969 till 1990, my mom was a mainframe programmer.  She started when she was an accountant for Olga Lingere, and they computerized the accounting department.  She realized that computers were the comming thing, so she took night classes at a local Community College.  She started as a programmer, which was not bad considering her only "Diploma" was from a night class high school.

In 1975 she got a job with Idaho Power as a Systems Analyst.  This meant a move, but since she was now making more then my dad, they could afford it.  She worked there until 1978, when she moved to Morrison-Knudson, which was a major construction company.  In fact, one of the major projects she oversaw was the design and implementation of the computers at the Rifle Wyoming Shale-Oil plant.  Not bad for a female with nothing but a few night-school college classes.

That was where she was introduced to the Lisa.  I worked on it there also.  Quite often I spent my spare time "playing around" on the mainframe where she worked.  Mostly, she saw early on that graphic OS was the way of the future, and Lisa was the first one to use them.  It was not the first graphic OS, but it was the most sophisticated at the time.

The last work she did with computers before she died was in 1998-1999, when Idaho Power and Morrison-Knudson brought her in for some consulting.  It seems that they were still useing some of the old COBOL programs she had written or developed 10-25 years earlier, and wanted her to help them convert them to newer languages. 

Am I the only one here who remembers or has used the Apple IIGS?

I had an Apple in 83/84 but no idea what make it was. It doesn't look like the one in the earlier pics so it might have been the IIGS. Will ask my bro.

I remember that my elementary school used Apple IIGS and IISE, and used to play games such as Number Muncher and Oregon Trail on  some of these, there was also a basic word processor where you can integrate icons in your document. Also I remember that school's old Epson printesr that were very noisy and slow which I used for classwork. My first computer experience was in 1989 by the way.

I remember that my elementary school used Apple IIGS and IISE, and used to play games such as Number Muncher and Oregon Trail on  some of these, there was also a basic word processor where you can integrate icons in your document. Also I remember that school's old Epson printesr that were very noisy and slow which I used for classwork. My first computer experience was in 1989 by the way.


I believed we used those before they "upgraded" us to Macs in 1994, but I was leaving elementary school for junior high at that time, so it really didn't concern me anymore. They had small monitors, I believe, and we also played Oregon Trail and Number Muncher and also some game that had us earning points to try to get to this ladies house in a certain amount of time. That could have been Number Munchers for all I can remember. We also used a paint program to make drawings... shoot, I can't remember what Apple's version of Window's "paint" was called.. my memory has failed me once again.

Marble Madness, I have forgotten all about that!
http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/screens/M/yMarble_Madness.png

classic.

I remember that my elementary school used Apple IIGS and IISE, and used to play games such as Number Muncher and Oregon Trail on some of these, there was also a basic word processor where you can integrate icons in your document. Also I remember that school's old Epson printesr that were very noisy and slow which I used for classwork. My first computer experience was in 1989 by the way.
I first used the Apple IIGS in 1988..it's the machine that got my interest in computers going...the creative programs for the IIGS were cool...Print Shop IIGS Version as well as EA's DELUXEPAINT II....but the Gauntlet game and the Epyx WORLD GAMES were really what got me hooked BIGTIME....

On the "Introduction to the Apple IIgs" software that came with it..they had a short tutorial on how to use the mouse and stuff like that..to open the program you used the mouse to pull on a windowshade...it actually made a pretty realistic sound of a windowshade flying up and flapping round and round....The IIgs was supposedly advanced as far as graphics and sound capabilities....hence the GS in the name.

Actually, you can do more than simple programming on the 2600 these days. There are massive amounts of tools and resources for the machine on the net.

 Cool Beans! Thanks Atari. Guess what I will be Googling tonight. I still have 4 working 2600 consoles. Do you know if these tools/resources work on emulators?

My first computer (not games console) was Commodore 64. Ofcourse i used it strictly for games though, but my brother loved writting programs in BASIC on it. The early C64 games were a bit sketchy & a lot were almost like Atari 2600, but when they released Last Ninja 2 in 1988 i was so totally blown away & totally hooked & C64 did the best version of that game aswell.  Probably the best in-game music i've ever heard in any game even to this very day. A bit scratchy but the in game music itself suited the game 100%, sounded kick a** & attracted me to that game more than anything else, which is more than i can say for any of the games out on the market now. The graphics were really good for it's time & for C64 aswell. Still my favourite game of all time EVER & i still love playing it. I remember i was able to finnish it without unlimited lives or any cheats back in the day. If you have a C64 emulator & know how to work it check out Last Ninja 2 or email me & i'll send it to you via email.

I also remember my cousin used to have a Radio Shack with a tape drive. The only game i remember was Centepede. I remember waitiing for 10 or 15 minutes while the game was loading & we'd be chanting "no errror, no error, no error" LOL. Most of the time all that load time wouldn't pay off because in the end we'd get a message on the screen saying "syntax error" LOL. I still miss those days though.

Am I the only one here who remembers or has used the Apple IIGS?


I remember the GS.  It came out in 1986, and was basically an Apple II SE with GEOS as the operating system.  It came in a box similar to the old model Mac Performa, and was made until 1992.

But Apple was already trying to get rid of it, because they wanted to concentrate on the Macintosh, so it was doomed from the start.

  Cool Beans! Thanks Atari. Guess what I will be Googling tonight. I still have 4 working 2600 consoles. Do you know if these tools/resources work on emulators?


Grab the Z26 emulator, as it's the most accurate. Also, check out the forums at atariage.com; in particular, the 2600 Programming For Newbies forum. That should get you on your way. One more site to check out is http://alienbill.com/2600/101/. It has info about whyat you need and some beginning tutorials.

Good luck (you'll need it, trust me) :)

I think it was an APPLE..I was in the first computer class at school and it was black screen with the green letters..We thought we were sooo cool..lol..Look at the stuff we got now! My daughter could master a computer when she was 5! we have SOO evolved..

Grab the Z26 emulator, as it's the most accurate.

  Thanks Atari. I had played around with the Z26, STELLA, and PCAE. I found PCAE to be close to the original, unfortunately, I believe it is no longer being developed.

One more site to check out is http://alienbill.com/2600/101/.

  I now have it bookmarked and will read it later.

Good luck (you'll need it, trust me)

  Oh Boy!  ;D

Back in the 80's, I was using an IBM Personal Computer XT. It had only 192 KB of RAM, a green monochrome moniter that had no graphics/ only text. It had a 10 MB hard drive, and one 5 1/4 inch floppy drive. It ran at 4.77MHz

I mainly used it for word processing. That was about it.

At school, I used Apple II's and Apple IIe's.

Apple II E or C, forgot which one

386

We had an old comadore that you had to type in the commands to get where you wanted to go

We had an old comadore that you had to type in the commands to get where you wanted to go
It was on a Commodore, I first learnt BASIC language.

I thought this was cool.

http://www.clickgamer.com/moreinfo.htm?pid=4

If you buy this and want games for it, go to www.c64.com. They have tons.

Tandy 1000! Yeah...It had a windows operating envrionment on it, I believe it was Windows 2.0. Not real popular then..It was new and DOS is what everybody knew. Windows took off shortly after with OS/2, then eventually Windows 3.0, 3.1,3.11,NT,95,98,2000,ME,XP.. wow check the evolution of that!

Tandy 1000! Yeah...It had a windows operating envrionment on it, I believe it was Windows 2.0. Not real popular then..It was new and DOS is what everybody knew. Windows took off shortly after with OS/2, then eventually Windows 3.0, 3.1,3.11,NT,95,98,2000,ME,XP.. wow check the evolution of that!


I may be wrong but OS/2 Warp was IBM's product, wasn't it? I had a friend at the time who hated M$ and hated Apple...he went with OS/2. Windows crushed OS/2 if I remember right. But then, I've always been one who Thought Different :-) So I never kept up with what was going on on the other side. 

  Thanks Atari. I had played around with the Z26, STELLA, and PCAE. I found PCAE to be close to the original, unfortunately, I believe it is no longer being developed.

  I now have it bookmarked and will read it later.

  Oh Boy!  ;D


I gave you all of those links, then discovered THIS: http://www.alienbill.com/2600/basic/

It's a version of BASIC that lets you write your own games for the 2600! This is nothing short of amazing.

Currently, the games you can write using batari BASIC are pretty limited due to the screen-writing code (clled the "kernel") included with it. But if you're not looking to write the next Doom, you can have a lot of fun with this.

I gave you all of those links, then discovered THIS: http://www.alienbill.com/2600/basic/


  WOW WOW WOW. That is sooooooo cool. I must have it. Downloading now.  ;D
  Actually, I have seen some code from the original games. It ain't that difficult to write since it's BASIC. AS with any code attention to detail is the key.

  Thanks for the link Atari. Had I known about this, I'd have already been creating my own games.

I remember when I was 6 years old in 1986, I went with my dad to the mall to buy an Apple II compatible Multitech PC(the Apple II, of course, was the world's very first personal computer).

We used to play a bunch of games on it, like Pac-Man, Mario Bros, Space Invaders, Wavy Navy, Montezuma's Revenge, Chivalry, etc(Chivalry was a role-playing game set in the middle ages, kind of a precursor to the King's Quest games).

I remember by 1989, the computer had already become outdated, since all the new games were too advanced for it.

Tandy 1000! Yeah...It had a windows operating envrionment on it, I believe it was Windows 2.0. Not real popular then..It was new and DOS is what everybody knew. Windows took off shortly after with OS/2, then eventually Windows 3.0, 3.1,3.11,NT,95,98,2000,ME,XP.. wow check the evolution of that!


Actually, the Tandy 1000 we had used DeskMate as its graphical user interface. I don't know if it was copying Windows or the Mac, but looking through an old DeskMate book that my Dad still has, I would guess they were borrowing from (stealing?) the Mac's interface, just like Windows does.

I remember Socrates, a very educational console system which had a robot that gave you math and word problems, and there was a paint program that came with it. It was very interactive and fun and it was very graphical. However, I do not think this would qualify as a  "traditional computer" as a Macintosh or Commodore.

Windows took off shortly after with OS/2
I may be wrong but OS/2 Warp was IBM's product, wasn't it?

  Yeah, OS/1&2 were both IBM's operating system. They also had IBM-DOS versions 1-5, maybe even a version 6. Every IBM PC I ever worked with had OS/2 with Windows 95/98 running over it. 

I would guess they were borrowing from (stealing?) the Mac's interface, just like Windows does.

Microsoft MS-DOS was "borrowed" from IBM and Zerox(?) systems which were open source, not licensed. When Microsoft was looking to develop a new OS, Apple's GUI-based OS(the LISA?) was open-source, they even showed it too Bill Gates. Woz strongly believed that everybody should have access to the source code.
There was a fairly accurate movie made about the early Apple/Windows battles between Woz, Jobs, & Gates, and how Microsoft and Apple got started.

  Microsoft MS-DOS was "borrowed" from IBM and Zerox(?) systems which were open source, not licensed. When Microsoft was looking to develop a new OS, Apple's GUI-based OS(the LISA?) was open-source, they even showed it too Bill Gates. Woz strongly believed that everybody should have access to the source code.
There was a fairly accurate movie made about the early Apple/Windows battles between Woz, Jobs, & Gates, and how Microsoft and Apple got started.



According to what I've read, Apple borrowed both the Mac's GUI and the idea of using a mouse (and some other things I can't remember) from a demonstration of a Xerox machine that was considered too costly in the 80s to mass-produce. Steve Jobs, as is his way, decided to do just that.

I read (from the same source..."The Mac Bathroom Reader") that Apple missed a chance at crippling Microsoft when a lawsuit over Windows looked like it might swing in Apple's favor. Apple allowed Microsoft to use the interface unchallenged as long as they agreed to continue to develop certain software to run on Apple computers (which they probably would have done anyway...they're a software company). It's only a blunder in hindsight, because at the time Apple and Microsoft were not really considered rivals. Apple and IBM (and IBM-compatible manufacturers) were rivals. I've been lazy about not confirming some of this, though.

Anyway, it's funny is that you hear so much about Microsoft copying (and continuing to copy) what Apple does, but Apple has done it's fair share of "borrowing" itself. What matters to me is that they seem to do a better job with the stuff they steal. :)

(Edited to change "Zerox" to "Xerox" and to remove "I don't/didn't know that the Mac's interface code was open-source". As Skippy correctly stated, the Lisa was Apple's first attempt at copying the Xerox machine's GUI and mouse-based navigation. I still didn't know that Apple's Lisa code was open-source.)

One 80's computer I had must've belonged to the military. Every time I'd turn it on some goof named General Failure was reading my hard drive.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I still didn't know that Apple's Lisa code was open-source.

  I could be wrong pell. I remember Woz was into the sharing of info. Remember early on when they had a club that would share/ exchange info on computers? The Altair(sp?) came out about then and I think it was what convinced Bill Gates to start writing software. Steve Jobs, being in control of business side, may have indeed licensed the MAC/Apple OS. Microsoft was very shrewed about how they did business, which ticked a lot of people off. I do remember the partnership between the two companies. It seems it was a "necessary evil" for both companies at best. I should do some more research since my memory isn't so good these days.

According to what I've read, Apple borrowed both the Mac's GUI and the idea of using a mouse (and some other things I can't remember) from a demonstration of a Xerox machine that was considered too costly in the 80s to mass-produce. Steve Jobs, as is his way, decided to do just that.


That is actually much closer to the truth then the version Skippy posted.

Xerox runs a "Think Tank" in the Bay area called the "Palo Alto Research Center", commonly called "PARC" (pronounced "park").  This is where they would give symposiums to the industry showing the direction they expected computers to take in the future.  One of the developments they showed off there was the first laser printer.  Another was "Xero Alto", a computer they designed in 1973.  It used a mouse, and a GUI interface.

In 1981, PARC gave a symposium about their newest development, the Xerox Star.  And this was an open symposium, with a great many leaders of the "Digital Revolution" in attendence.  This was back in the early 1980's, where nobody thought that it was possible to copyright an idea.  Xerox gave permission to anybody that wanted to follow them in this vision of the future.

Now fast-forward a few years.  IBM and Microsoft worked together to release OS/2 versions 1 and 2.  But it never made the full leap to being a true GUI interface.  The Atari ST and Commodore Amiga had the same type of interface, part graphic and part text.  Then along came the Macintosh.  In 1984, it released the first true GUI on a home computer.

Now while Microsoft was working on OS/2, they had not forgotten the Xerox Star.  In September 1981, they started work on "Interface Manager", a project that would later be renamed to Windows.  In 1983 (notice, a full year before the release of the Macintosh) they made a public anouncement of the development of "Windows".

Windows was just one of many GUI interfaces at the time.  When Windows 1.0 shipped in 1985, the market already had GEM, Vision, TopView, Desq, GEOS, DeskMate, NeXT, and several others.  I even worked with Windows 1 (to be specific, Windows 1.02r).  But because these were all shells that ran on top of a text OS, none of them performed as well as the Mac.

About the time OS/2 Version 3 was in development, IBM and Microsoft started to have disagreements.  They parted company, each one taking a copy of the completed source code with them.  IBM took their half and created OS/2 Warp, and Microsoft took their half and made Windows NT.

Now one thing MS did not like is that IBM had the rights to run Windows 1-3 programs in OS/2.  One of the ways to help shorten the life of this was to make a new program.  This was the start of Windows 95.  Since Win95 was the first true 32 bit operating system, programs on it could not be run in OS/2 (which like all previous versions of Windows was a 16 bit OS).  OS/2 Warp was also 32 bit, but because it ran as a shell, it was not fully 32 bit.  And the 32 bit programs were not compatible with 32 bit programs for Win95.

I can tell that at least somebody took their history from the TV movie "Pirates Of The Silicon Valley".  Trust me when I say that the movie took great liberties with history.  My best friend was an assistant cameraman on that project, and we would laugh as we read the script, and how untrue it is from real history.

All of the first generation GUI looked the same.  DeskMate, AmigaOS, Mac, Windows, DesqView, GEOS, all of them.  This is because they were all inspired by the Xerox Alto and Star computers.  It was not until years later that they developed their own unique looks.

And for those that do not remember GEOS, I bet many of you used it, if you realixed it or not.  If you ever ran a DOS version of AOL, it ran on a modified GEOS operating system.  Those that used DOS Prodigy or the PS/2 with the GUI also used GEOS, as well as anybody that owned the Apple GS or the late model Commodore 128 with the graphic interface.

And the MS-DOS was not taken from open source.  It was a backward-engineer of an OS called "QDOS", for "Quick & Drity Operating System".  They did the backward-engineer quickly, just to show IBM something.  When they realized that IBM was seriously considering their product, they scrambled to buy the rights to QDOS, just to cover all their bases.  QDOS itself was a backward engineer job from CP/M, and modified to run on the Intel 8086 (the same CPU IBM used for the PC).

Remember, this was before copyrights and patents for computer software were given.  Nobody could conceive of trying to copyright an idea.  To them, trying to copyright an Operating System would be like trying to copyright the idea that "4 wheels and a motor makes a car".  After all, nobody could copyright a car (or a rocket, or the airplane), so how can you copyright the idea of a "Graphic Operating System"?

  I could be wrong pell. I remember Woz was into the sharing of info. Remember early on when they had a club that would share/ exchange info on computers? The Altair(sp?) came out about then and I think it was what convinced Bill Gates to start writing software. Steve Jobs, being in control of business side, may have indeed licensed the MAC/Apple OS. Microsoft was very shrewed about how they did business, which ticked a lot of people off. I do remember the partnership between the two companies. It seems it was a "necessary evil" for both companies at best. I should do some more research since my memory isn't so good these days.


The source code for the Lisa may well be open source, not that it will do you any good.  That beast (like the first generation Macintosh) was half software and half firmware.  Even with the OS, without a LISA computer you would be unable to use it.  However, all of the original Macintosh computers were backwards compatible to the Lisa.

Woz was a great believer in "Open Source".  In fact, when he developed the Apple, he wanted to make it an "Open Source" computer.  His idea was to sell kits, which people could then build (and modify) themselves.  Jobs was the one that talked him out of it, instead selling pre-built computers.  Then along came the venture capitol, and the monster called "Apple Corp" was born.

Jobs went on to sue everybody whenever he felt threatened.  Microsoft, IBM, even his own authorized clone vendors.  He would have lawyers attack when he thought somebody was invading one of "his" ideas.

Woz on the other hand was the opposite.  After he left Apple, he formed "Cloud 9".  This company was the first to make a "Universal Remote Control".  The idea he developed in 1987 is now a common household item, letting us use 1 remote where before we would need 2-5 of them.  And the last time I checked, he was not trying to sue anybody for stealing his "idea".

Windows was just one of many GUI interfaces at the time.  When Windows 1.0 shipped in 1985, the market already had GEM, Vision, TopView, Desq, GEOS, DeskMate, NeXT, and several others.  I even worked with Windows 1 (to be specific, Windows 1.02r).  But because these were all shells that ran on top of a text OS, none of them performed as well as the Mac.


This partly answers my earlier post where I wondered whether DeskMate borrowed from Windows or Macintosh, but I still wonder if and how much they borrowed from Apple, or were they influenced solely by earlier GUIs.



I can tell that at least somebody took their history from the TV movie "Pirates Of The Silicon Valley".  Trust me when I say that the movie took great liberties with history.  My best friend was an assistant cameraman on that project, and we would laugh as we read the script, and how untrue it is from real history.


I know that I've never seen the movie, but I know you can never be sure of the reliability of a source. Even the people "who were there" sometimes remember things differently. Just since my last couple of posts, I've seen quite a few unofficial sources (including other posts on this thread) that differed from what I though I knew, or had assumed, about the history of the Apple/Microsoft rivalry, and sometimes those sources painted completely different pictures of what happened.



Remember, this was before copyrights and patents for computer software were given.  Nobody could conceive of trying to copyright an idea.  To them, trying to copyright an Operating System would be like trying to copyright the idea that "4 wheels and a motor makes a car".  After all, nobody could copyright a car (or a rocket, or the airplane), so how can you copyright the idea of a "Graphic Operating System"?


I've done research on the U.S. Patent Office's software patent policy, and apparently to this day they are still reluctant to offer a patent on pure software, saying that an algorithm is not patentable. They pretty much require that the software to be patented be related to a specific hardware implementation, or so I understand.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the discussion. Most people I know wouldn't have the slightest idea what I was talking about, if I were to bring this stuff up.

  I could be wrong pell. I remember Woz was into the sharing of info. Remember early on when they had a club that would share/ exchange info on computers? The Altair(sp?) came out about then and I think it was what convinced Bill Gates to start writing software. Steve Jobs, being in control of business side, may have indeed licensed the MAC/Apple OS. Microsoft was very shrewed about how they did business, which ticked a lot of people off. I do remember the partnership between the two companies. It seems it was a "necessary evil" for both companies at best. I should do some more research since my memory isn't so good these days.


Actually, the more I think about it, the more familiar it sounds. I may have read that the Lisa code was open and just forgot. Like you say, research will clear things up.

I've done research on the U.S. Patent Office's software patent policy, and apparently to this day they are still reluctant to offer a patent on pure software, saying that an algorithm is not patentable. They pretty much require that the software to be patented be related to a specific hardware implementation, or so I understand.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the discussion. Most people I know wouldn't have the slightest idea what I was talking about, if I were to bring this stuff up.


Actually, the matter was pretty well decided by the Apple Vs Franklin lawsuit.

Franklin built an Apple II clone called the Ace in 1982.  In it, they blatently ripped off everything Apple made, down to the DOS, ROM, and utilities.  Apple sued, and in the first court decision, Franklin won.

But of course, Apple appealed, and in 1987, it was overturned on appeal.  But by that time, Franklin had "Reverse Engineered" the ROM and utilities, and the court said that this version was legal.  But because they used the "stollen" version for 4 years, they had to pay back-royalties.  This was enough to force them into bankrupcy.

This is why today, everybody "Reverse-engineers" everybody.  AMD did it for years to Intel.  Then last year, Intel did it back when they reverse-engineered the AMD 64 bit processor.  And every BIOS we use today is the descendent to the original Compaq BIOS, which was a reverse-engineer of the original IBM PC BIOS.

The source code for the Lisa may well be open source, not that it will do you any good. That beast (like the first generation Macintosh) was half software and half firmware. Even with the OS, without a LISA computer you would be unable to use it. However, all of the original Macintosh computers were backwards compatible to the Lisa.

Woz was a great believer in "Open Source". In fact, when he developed the Apple, he wanted to make it an "Open Source" computer. His idea was to sell kits, which people could then build (and modify) themselves. Jobs was the one that talked him out of it, instead selling pre-built computers. Then along came the venture capitol, and the monster called "Apple Corp" was born.

Jobs went on to sue everybody whenever he felt threatened. Microsoft, IBM, even his own authorized clone vendors. He would have lawyers attack when he thought somebody was invading one of "his" ideas.

Woz on the other hand was the opposite. After he left Apple, he formed "Cloud 9". This company was the first to make a "Universal Remote Control". The idea he developed in 1987 is now a common household item, letting us use 1 remote where before we would need 2-5 of them. And the last time I checked, he was not trying to sue anybody for stealing his "idea".
I think Steve Jobs was responsible for the "NEXT" computer system that failed to materialize!

The Apple II GS had the original Gauntlet game....one of the cool things about Gauntlet is that you could knock off hordes of enemies by throwing 'Magic Potion' at 'em!

And there was Epyx World Games for the II GS....sumo wrestling, downhill skiing, bull riding(the nastiest bull you could ride was 'Fernando'),and cliff diving...

There was also a floppy disk "magazine" for the Apple II Series called "Uptime"...one of it's games is you get to run a car company....and Uptime also had some cool martial-arts games!

I remember the GS. It came out in 1986, and was basically an Apple II SE with GEOS as the operating system. It came in a box similar to the old model Mac Performa, and was made until 1992.

But Apple was already trying to get rid of it, because they wanted to concentrate on the Macintosh, so it was doomed from the start.
I had a chance to use the II GS as part of volunteering at a mental health day program I was a member of during the late 1980's.

Learning how to use the Apple II GS opened a lot of doors for me...It allowed me to exercise my creative mind by doing computer art with Electronic Arts "DeluxePaint II" and of course Broderbund's "Print Shop IIGS"...

I was painfully shy and isolating before I learned how to use a computer...The computer gave me a skill I could enjoy as well as a way to relate to others through showing them how to use the computer,and through my artwork as well as personalized cards I made for people's birthdays,holiday greetings, and get well cards for fellow mental health survivors going thru difficult times.

And now I cannot imagine life without a PC or the Internet.

I think Steve Jobs was responsible for the "NEXT" computer system that failed to materialize!


Yep, that was Stevie.  He thought the world was ready for a $12,000 home computer.  But by the time he was done "researching" and released it, the thing was already obsolete technology.  And way to expensive to boot.

Plus it was just plain ugly.  A black cube, with a mouse that was less comfortable then the original Macintosh "Brick" mouse.

Yep, that was Stevie. He thought the world was ready for a $12,000 home computer. But by the time he was done "researching" and released it, the thing was already obsolete technology. And way to expensive to boot.

Plus it was just plain ugly. A black cube, with a mouse that was less comfortable then the original Macintosh "Brick" mouse.


I wonder where the heck one inserted the floppies on that ugly black cube? I don't see where they are!

I wonder where the heck one inserted the floppies on that ugly black cube? I don't see where they are!


There was no floppy on the NeXT.  It only shipped with a propriatary optical drive (which nobody else in the industry used).  Of course, the first major project that Jobs did when he returned to Apple was the IMac, which also had no floppy drive.

Here are some stats for the NeXT N4000, circa 1990:

68030 CPU
25 MHz
12 MB RAM
2 gig hard drive
256 MB optical drive (closest comparison would be to a SyQuest or IOmega Zip Drive)
RS-423 serial port (incompatible with the industry standard RS-232)

Now compared to a top of the line IBM clone at the time, it is way behind in almost everything but the hard drive.  The Intel 80386-33 was faster, and 16 MB RAM was common for high ended systems (sometimes 32 Meg).  The average price for the system listed was $6,500.  You could build a PC for less then a third of that price (even after adding a 2 gig drive, which was around $2,000).

To give an idea how backwards this computer really was, it was a VGA monochrome system.  The first version with color capabilities did not come out until 1991.  That is almost a decade after the PC (and every computer in the industry other then Apple went to color.

Of course, NeXT never made a profit.  In fact, it was deep in debt and bordering on bankrupcy when Jobs went back to Apple.  Part of the agreement was that Apple buy it from him for $430 million in Apple stock.  6 months later (the time period the SEC required for waiting), Jobs sold all of his Apple stock (1.5 million shares).  They also agreed to buy the OS (NeXTStep), which they phased out and never used again.

And Mac people still think of Jobs as the "second comming", and Bill Gates as "The Evil One".  ;D

There was no floppy on the NeXT. It only shipped with a propriatary optical drive (which nobody else in the industry used). Of course, the first major project that Jobs did when he returned to Apple was the IMac, which also had no floppy drive.

Here are some stats for the NeXT N4000, circa 1990:

68030 CPU
25 MHz
12 MB RAM
2 gig hard drive
256 MB optical drive (closest comparison would be to a SyQuest or IOmega Zip Drive)
RS-423 serial port (incompatible with the industry standard RS-232)

Now compared to a top of the line IBM clone at the time, it is way behind in almost everything but the hard drive. The Intel 80386-33 was faster, and 16 MB RAM was common for high ended systems (sometimes 32 Meg). The average price for the system listed was $6,500. You could build a PC for less then a third of that price (even after adding a 2 gig drive, which was around $2,000).

To give an idea how backwards this computer really was, it was a VGA monochrome system. The first version with color capabilities did not come out until 1991. That is almost a decade after the PC (and every computer in the industry other then Apple went to color.

Of course, NeXT never made a profit. In fact, it was deep in debt and bordering on bankrupcy when Jobs went back to Apple. Part of the agreement was that Apple buy it from him for $430 million in Apple stock. 6 months later (the time period the SEC required for waiting), Jobs sold all of his Apple stock (1.5 million shares). They also agreed to buy the OS (NeXTStep), which they phased out and never used again.

And Mac people still think of Jobs as the "second comming", and Bill Gates as "The Evil One". ;D
How the heck did Mr. Jobs expect to sell such a crappy computer? I'd bet the darn thing would be unreliable in a business or even a home setting...