You guys all over the inthe... sites always say how everything before the 90s was perfect and squeaky clean.  How true do you think this is? I know in the early 90s primetime started getting dirty, and today you can see disgusting/controversial stuff on 3rd world tv, but was it really safer??  I mean the 50s and 60s really were low on crime, but is it possible that less people were caught?  Also, the early 80s were very heavy on crime and the early 90s crime wave was really a product of the 80s crack epidemic and Wall Street yuppie greed.  The 70s, from charts I've seen, are worse than any other late 20th century decade (50s-90s).

Actually, I think kids could get away with a lot more in the 80's than they can now.

i did things that would have put me jail if caught now because the 80s were more submissive (drinking and driving). if people tell you that the 50s and 60s were innocent times, there lying, the crimes weren't reported on the media like they do now. humans have always been violent, no matter what time in history we're in.

But you do have to admit that things get worse as time progresses.

Even chidren are different these days.

Thank you all for your replies.  Fox, I wouldn't say the kids are so much different (I'm one of them) as what we watch on TV and music is.  In the 80s you could get your sex, language, and guts in movies.  Today (unfortunately imo) its on second-rate TV channels.  But today's kids aren't any worse. Columbine was awful, but it was just some dysfunctional kids unlike the norm.

-FHF

Thank you all for your replies.  Fox, I wouldn't say the kids are so much different (I'm one of them) as what we watch on TV and music is.  In the 80s you could get your sex, language, and guts in movies.  Today (unfortunately imo) its on second-rate TV channels.  But today's kids aren't any worse. Columbine was awful, but it was just some dysfunctional kids unlike the norm.

-FHF


I have a 13 year old and she is much more mature than the 13 year olds were when I was growing up (in the 70s/80s).  Kids today have easier access to the things that were strictly taboo then.  The internet and cable and satellite television put nearly everything at ones fingertips.  I have to closely watch everything that she gets into to "shield" her from the things that are so accessible and, in some cases pushed in the face.

I have a 13 year old and she is much more mature than the 13 year olds were when I was growing up (in the 70s/80s).  Kids today have easier access to the things that were strictly taboo then.  The internet and cable and satellite television put nearly everything at ones fingertips.  I have to closely watch everything that she gets into to "shield" her from the things that are so accessible and, in some cases pushed in the face.


So the internet's what did it huh?  Interesting.  Do you think today's kids are meaner than Gen X/Boomers?

you didn't hear of school shoot-ups as much as you see them today. it might have be best that kids back then had less acess to "taboos" back then. we're in such a hurry to grow up today, its ridiculous.

you didn't hear of school shoot-ups as much as you see them today. it might have be best that kids back then had less acess to "taboos" back then. we're in such a hurry to grow up today, its ridiculous.


I agree.

Maybe back then kids got away with most stuff but now these days you have kids killing kids & teenage mothers throwing away their babies. >:( You never saw that in the 80's.



Howard

That is true.  Kids hate being kids today.  But they're not a-holes, well at least not more than any other generation.  But yeah, before I was 13 I wanted to be a teen badly.  But now I couldn't care less.  But school shootings?  Could it just be they're more publicized today?

That is true.  Kids hate being kids today.  But they're not a-holes, well at least not more than any other generation.  But yeah, before I was 13 I wanted to be a teen badly.  But now I couldn't care less.  But school shootings?  Could it just be they're more publicized today?





Maybe it's caused by anger and frustration but I could be wrong you know,FHF. ???



Howard

Maybe back then kids got away with most stuff but now these days you have kids killing kids & teenage mothers throwing away their babies.  You never saw that in the 80's.



Howard


True.  But those incidents are very rare.  Perhaps there just wasn't as much information back then (a good thing imo).  But those cases are awful   :\'(  >:(

Maybe it's caused by anger and frustration but I could be wrong you know,FHF.



Howard


Sounds like that may be it.  I really wish they would pull all the sex and violence off tv.  It might not stop crime, but it would make the world seem brighter :)

Maybe back then kids got away with most stuff but now these days you have kids killing kids & teenage mothers throwing away their babies.  You never saw that in the 80's.



Howard


True.  But those incidents are very rare.  Perhaps there just wasn't as much information back then (a good thing imo).  But those cases are awful   :\'(  >:(



what exactly do you mean by as much information? newspaper,computers,radio? ???


Howard

Maybe it's caused by anger and frustration but I could be wrong you know,FHF.



Howard


Sounds like that may be it.  I really wish they would pull all the sex and violence off tv.  It might not stop crime, but it would make the world seem brighter :)



Yes,I agree FulHouse but IMO,there IS way too much of it on television no these days. ::)



Howard

Yes,I agree FulHouse but IMO,there IS way too much of it on television no these days.



Howard

Definitely.  And that's a mean reason I will NEVER feel nostalgic about ANYTHING that's happened in the past 7 years.  Unless things get worse.  :-\\  Darn terrorists, nukes, and oil plants  :-\\

well I don't know if they were more innocent than now. Things are definitely more reported on now, but I still remember shootings going on in the eighties. I remember a big one at a McDonald's in the early eighties. Even as far as terrorists go ...I remember the hi jacking of airlines throughout the eighties and the terrorist attack on the US barracks in Beruit in 1983. Sadly things haven't changed much. Cable television and the internet just made it easily accessed.
   I do agree that things were less strict back then as a kid. I remember being 13 to 14, going out with a bunch of friends and going into a field close to our home and an Elementary School and target shooting bottles with our 22 rifles. Man if you did that today  :o.....ever police officer in a hundred miles would be there. Its definitely a different world. I think thats why we all love the eighties...it seemed a lot more free back then IMO.

well I don't know if they were more innocent than now. Things are definitely more reported on now, but I still remember shootings going on in the eighties. I remember a big one at a McDonald's in the early eighties. Even as far as terrorists go ...I remember the hi jacking of airlines throughout the eighties and the terrorist attack on the US barracks in Beruit in 1983. Sadly things haven't changed much. Cable television and the internet just made it easily accessed.
  I do agree that things were less strict back then as a kid. I remember being 13 to 14, going out with a bunch of friends and going into a field close to our home and an Elementary School and target shooting bottles with our 22 rifles. Man if you did that today  .....ever police officer in a hundred miles would be there. Its definitely a different world. I think thats why we all love the eighties...it seemed a lot more free back then IMO.

Yeah.  People didn't give a rat's a** about guns in the 80s.

Maybe back then kids got away with most stuff but now these days you have kids killing kids & teenage mothers throwing away their babies. >:( You never saw that in the 80's.



Howard
:oI think mothers dumping their babies happened more often,they just never found the bodies.

Although the 80's were a lot of things to me, I don't consider innocence as one of them. Life was funner, and more laid back, but not squeaky clean by no stretch of the imagination. I, too, target practised with a 22 out back of the school (although we did take off like a bat out of H-E-double- toothpick when we heard sirens!)

Although the 80's were a lot of things to me, I don't consider innocence as one of them. Life was funner, and more laid back, but not squeaky clean by no stretch of the imagination. I, too, target practised with a 22 out back of the school (although we did take off like a bat out of H-E-double- toothpick when we heard sirens!)


i agree - the 80's were more carefree and FUN!  there were no BIG political things going on, other than reganomics in the early 80's.  i think things changed a lot when aids became so epidemic.  you can tell a lot about society by the music.  80's songs were about NOTHING!!  They were just fun.

Maybe back then kids got away with most stuff but now these days you have kids killing kids & teenage mothers throwing away their babies. >:( You never saw that in the 80's.



Howard


I disagree. It was around in the urban neighborhoods of America. However, no one cared until it hit suburbia. I was referring to violence.

Tanya

i agree - the 80's were more carefree and FUN!  there were no BIG political things going on, other than reganomics in the early 80's.  i think things changed a lot when aids became so epidemic.  you can tell a lot about society by the music.  80's songs were about NOTHING!!  They were just fun.


There were plenty of 80s songs about the state of society and politics. "Sun City", "Do they know it's Christmas?", "Free Nelson Mandela", "Keepn on Rockin' in the Free World", "Born in the USA" (by Bruce Springsteen) and "We are the World" are examples of 80s political songs.

Tanya

i agree - the 80's were more carefree and FUN!  there were no BIG political things going on, other than reganomics in the early 80's.  i think things changed a lot when aids became so epidemic.  you can tell a lot about society by the music.  80's songs were about NOTHING!!  They were just fun.


no big political things! we had the cold war and the very real possibilty of nuclear armageddon. afghanistan was invaded by the soviets and later would be the cause for the terrorist issues of today. central america almost became another vietnam for the US. and in '89, the berlin wall collapsed, marking the end of the soviet empire. i'd say a lot of big political things happened in the 80s.

no big political things! we had the cold war and the very real possibilty of nuclear armageddon. afghanistan was invaded by the soviets and later would be the cause for the terrorist issues of today. central america almost became another vietnam for the US. and in '89, the berlin wall collapsed, marking the end of the soviet empire. i'd say a lot of big political things happened in the 80s.

At least you guys didn't have to vote between W and Ketchup Man  ;D

no big political things! we had the cold war and the very real possibilty of nuclear armageddon. afghanistan was invaded by the soviets and later would be the cause for the terrorist issues of today. central america almost became another vietnam for the US. and in '89, the berlin wall collapsed, marking the end of the soviet empire. i'd say a lot of big political things happened in the 80s.


hmmm...i've been proven wrong.  well, i was in college and not living in the real world at the time.  my apologies.  actually, i still live in my own little world.  oh well...  :D

80's songs were about NOTHING!!  They were just fun.


I'll have to disagree with you on that. I think you might be listening to the wrong stuff if that's the impression you get.

quote: I'll have to disagree with you on that. I think you might be listening to the wrong stuff if that's the impression you get.  


What the heck is "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" about?  ;D

I'm not really sure if you could say the world was more innocent in the 80s. Just look how the decade started: the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, the Moscow Olympics were boycotted, John Lennon was murdered, and that's just 1980. When people look back on their childhood, it's often with more affection than they look at the world they're in now.

I disagree. It was around in the urban neighborhoods of America. However, no one cared until it hit suburbia. I was referring to violence.

Tanya



Maybe Tanya it wasn't out in the open like it is now.



HOWARD

:oI think mothers dumping their babies happened more often,they just never found the bodies.



Maybe they should stuck with abstinence. >:(



Howard

But you do have to admit that things get worse as time progresses.

Even chidren are different these days.


That's bunk dude.  The kids haven't changed, we've changed.  That concept comes straight out of The Breakfast Club.  Everyone always thinks the present day kids are the worst kids that ever existed.  And all kids like to think they are growing up in a more gritty, more on the edge, and more violent world then anyone before them....it helps with the whole "we're cooler then your generation" bit everyone likes to believe when they are under 22...."because after all, look at all the crazy stuff going on in the country and world that didn't happen back in YOUR day".  When I was a kid growing up in the 80s, I had teachers tell us that back in the 50s and 60s, and even the 70s no one had to lock their doors and everything was safe all the time.  It's so weird to see us say the same thing now.

You get older and realize that the world has always been nearly the same, and there is nothing special about your generation and all the cool technology you thought you were growing up with in the 80s and 90s (that supposedly seperated you from previous generations) won't make a difference in aging and growing up....you will still hit 30 just like your parents did.  It's humbling.

The FCC rules have changed in America, but I don't consider that the death of morality.

How have "older people" changed?  If anything, we are the same (I'm pushing 40).  I don't buy the "You have Breakfast Club Syndrome."  First of all TBC is a movie.  Second, it was written by an adult telling the story of the perception of children.  Older folks view the world with the experience of youth.  The basic issues that children face today are the same, acceptance, desire, etc.  In today's world, the media pushes these issues into the open much sooner than they did in the past (I would say up until the birth of the Information Superhighway)

The fact of the matter is, it *is* different. We grew up differently because times were different. Viet Nam and Watergate were fresh in our minds even though many of us were very young. To say that someone who isn't even old enough to remember Reaganomics first-hand would have the same experience is a stretch, in my humble opinion. While we can all get along here out of a shared love of nostalgia, there is a fundamental difference in experience just as there is a fundamental difference between men and women, apples and oranges, cats and dogs, etc. Things are going to have a different meaning to the younger people because they will be experiencing them in a different context. This is not a bad thing at all. It's just what makes us different from each other.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. ;)

Okay  :)

In short, yes the 80's was a more innocent era.  But that had more to do with perception than reality.  But when the perception is widespread it becomes reality.  TV shows were tamer, talkshows lacked the trailer park element, bands were often cartoony and flamboyant, and the internet did not exist.

Lets forget about crime (apparently there were twenty times the amount of homocides in the Middle Ages than there are today ) it is not really relevant.  I think what matters is the attitude of the Western individual.  The Western individual today (mind you this is very anecdotal and subjective) tends to be very insular, very self centred, incredibly uniformed, shallow, and with little or no humility.  I believe this is a direct result of the incredible amounts of information todays Western Individuals needs to maintain in order to function in todays society.  Back in the eighties this exponential information growth was only just beginning now it has reached critical overload, it's like George Orwell said "The mind is like an attic with facts being boxes.  The more boxes you shove in the attic the sooner some will be lost out the sides."  And what tends to be lost is the concept of manners and humility IMHO.

What the heck is "Everybody Have Fun Tonight" about?  ;D


Like I said, you're totally looking in the wrong places. Wang Chung is definitely a party fun time band. You forget Tears for Fears, XTC, Echo and the Bunnymen, Talking Heads, The Cure, The Smiths, The Pretenders, Psychedelic Furs, New Order, Depeche Mode, U2, etc... I'm sure you know of all these people, and their stuff is quite far from meaningless. Totally seperate from Wang Chung... though I love their song "Dance Hall Days." I think it's their best.

^^ I agree with that.  In the 80s you couldn't say sh*t, show crack, or a cut open body on tv.  Today you can't say sh*t w/o it being bleeped out, crack without blurring, but a mutilated body is A-OK.  wtf?  But I think people were even more selfish then?  Yuppies? "Material Girl" (yes I know its anti-greed but still resembles the time)?

^Yeah I know there's genius music from the 80s.  esp. New Wave.  I enjoy Wang Chung too!  ;D

^^ I agree with that.  In the 80s you couldn't say sh*t, show crack, or a cut open body on tv.  Today you can't say sh*t w/o it being bleeped out, crack without blurring, but a mutilated body is A-OK.  wtf?  But I think people were even more selfish then?  Yuppies? "Material Girl" (yes I know its anti-greed but still resembles the time)?

^Yeah I know there's genius music from the 80s.  esp. New Wave.  I enjoy Wang Chung too!  ;D



During the 80's teenage full frontal/partial nudity was just about everywhere.TV,films,movies,etc...Today,you get bleeped or black boxed ::)



Howard

During the 80's teenage full frontal/partial nudity was just about everywhere.TV,films,movies,etc...Today,you get bleeped or black boxed



Howard


Did John Hughes have any of that?  ???

During the 80's teenage full frontal/partial nudity was just about everywhere.TV,films,movies,etc...Today,you get bleeped or black boxed



Howard


Did John Hughes have any of that?  ???



Who's John Hughes? ???


Howard

John Hughes was the guy who wrote/directed The Breakfast Club, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Sixteen Candles, Home Alone, the National Lampoon movies, along with others.

John Hughes was the guy who directed/wrote Breakfast Club, Sixteen Candles, Pretty in Pink, Lampoon.  And later Uncle Buck, Home Alone, and some others.

John Hughes IMdb Profile

I'll have to disagree with you on that. I think you might be listening to the wrong stuff if that's the impression you get.


well, yeah, i probably was listening to "the wrong stuff"

"i eat cannibals, feed on animals"
"she's from New jersey, she wants to be an actress."
buffy, buffy come back to me, why'd you have to go and OD?  what about uncle bill and mrs beasely?

okay, so the stuff i listened to was fun and about nothing and it suited my little la la world at the time.  didn't mean to offend anyone!

Like I said, you're totally looking in the wrong places. Wang Chung is definitely a party fun time band. You forget Tears for Fears, XTC, Echo and the Bunnymen, Talking Heads, The Cure, The Smiths, The Pretenders, Psychedelic Furs, New Order, Depeche Mode, U2, etc... I'm sure you know of all these people, and their stuff is quite far from meaningless. Totally seperate from Wang Chung... though I love their song "Dance Hall Days." I think it's their best.


sorry, but i can can probably find fun and meaningles songs from all of them.  some were my faveorite 80's bands.

BUMP

Many good points expressed in this thread.

In short, I think some things in the 80's were a little more innocent seeming (the music was largely happy and carefree sounding) but I'm sure walking around downtown New York City in 1985 would be no safer than 2005 (maybe even on the contrary, since Giuliani cleaned it up in the 90's!).

We didn't have the Internet then, so maybe we just didn't hear about crime as much as now.


That is true.  Kids hate being kids today.  But they're not a-holes, well at least not more than any other generation.  But yeah, before I was 13 I wanted to be a teen badly.  But now I couldn't care less.  But school shootings?  Could it just be they're more publicized today?


One thing I think I can say about the "average" kids of today is that they seem more grown-up and adult like than kids in the 80's (and even 90's) did. In that respect, I think I might've been ahead of my time, LOL. If you hopped in the DeLorean and brought my 7-year-old self to 2005, he'd probably feel more at home with other kids than he did in his home time of 1989. ;)

Seriously though, it strikes me that (from what I remember about my peers, as well as everything I've observed in the time since, or from TV shows, movies, etc) 80's children were more "bratty" but still kid-like, whereas the average kid today is more interested in cool stuff or computers and music. In other words, I think an 8 year-old kid in 1985 would get more amusement out of simple burp or f*rt noises than an 8 year-old kid in 2005.

That's not to say kids today wouldn't find that amusing (I'm 23 and I still find that stuff funny, so that kills my example right there, LOL!!), but in the 80's, that's all that would be needed to entertain them. 2005 kids, I think (just basing it off what I see - I babysit sometimes and I work at the video store, so I'm still around kids) would think something like that, by itself, was lame for entertainment. They still may find it funny, but far less funny 'cause there's more to do now (i.e. the Internet).

That could also be the reason young kids don't seem to like toys and stuff as much anymore.

I don't know about you, but growing up my parents were together(still are), I was taught manners, and even though there has always been violence it seems to me that there was a stronger sense of morality.  You knew that you just didn't do some things.  I was one of those that never took drugs in school, or partied, I pretty much had a few good friends.  The only time I did anything remotely like that was in senior year when a few of us stayed over at a friends apartment and drank all night.  Where I live it's a maybe two horse town, and it was safe to stroll the streets, now even here you have to lock the doors.  Yea, then we never locked our doors believe it or not.  I just think there was a higher standard with each generation you go back.  And kids could be kids back then.  there weren't as many lacth-key kids and more stay home moms.  I'm sorry but I'm not a feminist, but I do think Doctor Spock was all messed up.  He's the one that started alot of that junk about child rearing in the 70's when I was born.  My parents like many others still believed in spanking now you say that and you have to defend yourself for doing so.  I think that has alot to do with it.  People are afraid to discipline anymore for fear of getting turned it or something.

^ I agree with some of your statement. Some I do not.

I do have (and always have had) some general common sense. I'm not a troublemaker - never been in a physical fight. Only cussed out a teacher maybe 2 or 3 times at all (some kids do it 2 or 3 times a day!) - most of the time, though I'm respectful. If I disagreed with an authority figure, I'd calmy discuss it. Even the arguments with my parents have been minor in comparison and frequency to many of my peers. I've rarely drunk and don't smoke cigarettes. And all this is from me being myself.

That said though, I personally don't agree with your assessment of spanking. I'm not saying there aren't cases that it's worked, or that every parent who'se done it is an awful person - no. But as for me, personally, I don't like it. If/when I have kids I'm not gonna do it (heck, I've often said I'll let their mom take care of the discipline - let me just be the fun dad, LOL!).

At the risk of saying this till I'm blue in the face - everybody is different. I've never been too fond of when people say "my generation/time period was more innocent" or "kids were in my time." I do believe individuals in 2005 are probably ruder/meaner than some individuals in 1975, but I never make generalizations either way - that's a dangerous thing to do in my opinion.

BTW, when I was a kid, I hated the thought of being a kid (wasn't till I was 15 or 16 that it became okay with me - by then I wasn't one anymore so it didn't matter. Hehe). I do believe more kids (notice I said not "all") today are interested in teen/adult stuff at an earlier age than in the past, but so was I. Heck, I was probably 15 years ahead of my time!

And, a 10 year old in 1992 (like, uh, me) was no less bad than what I see of a 10 year-old in 2005. Maybe slightly less "ghetto slang" and all, but I heard the boys say stuff like "S.M.D." (figure it out - I'm not repeating it, lol) as an insult.

On a lighter note, one thing I love about the Back to the Future movies is the moral that, no matter what generation it is, you'll still find the same things as the current time, just in a different form - it's less "different" than people always perceive it to be. Sure, towns will change, fashion and music tastes, TV, world leaders and all that may change, but our parents (and grandparents for that matter) are more like us than we'll ever know, or care to admit. ;D