So many bratty little punks can't believe we actually had a web back in the '80s. Yes children, back in the stone age of the '80s we had a web. And I'm not talking about some Pentagon run internet for missile defense systems, I'm talking about a system that the general public was using. Back in 1985 my father bought me a Commodre 64 and I was hooked into the web through Q-Link. As a result, I knew all the lingo of the computer subculture roughly 7 years before it hit the mainstream of the world. Email, chat, message boards were part of my vocab back then. Delphi even had forums back in '87/'88. When I tell people I "grew up with the internet" they laugh and tell me I'm trying to act young. They insist I'm too old to have possibly have grown up with the net back in the '80s. Ahh the ignorant. Well its not a lie, I grew up with it, despite most other people not. I guess I am part of the "internet generation" then eh? Ok, I know demographers won't see me that way but its true.

Wondering if there are any other '80s web users like me on this board.......?????

: So many bratty little punks can't believe we
: actually had a web back in the '80s. Yes
: children, back in the stone age of the '80s
: we had a web. And I'm not talking about some
: Pentagon run internet for missile defense
: systems, I'm talking about a system that the
: general public was using. Back in 1985 my
: father bought me a Commodre 64 and I was
: hooked into the web through Q-Link. As a
: result, I knew all the lingo of the computer
: subculture roughly 7 years before it hit the
: mainstream of the world. Email, chat,
: message boards were part of my vocab back
: then. Delphi even had forums back in
: '87/'88. When I tell people I "grew up
: with the internet" they laugh and tell
: me I'm trying to act young. They insist I'm
: too old to have possibly have grown up with
: the net back in the '80s. Ahh the ignorant.
: Well its not a lie, I grew up with it,
: despite most other people not. I guess I am
: part of the "internet generation"
: then eh? Ok, I know demographers won't see
: me that way but its true.

: Wondering if there are any other '80s web users
: like me on this board.......?????

I got my start in the early 80's as well. Started using an Atari with a cartridge and tape drive. Did some programming in basic on it. We got our first PC based machine in 83. I started using it the following year and never stopped.

I actually never used the internet back then. I first heard of the internet around 1994. For many years before that I used the BBS world.

Yes I definitely grew up in the 80's as well. Long before Microsoft ever came up with these INCREDIBLY STUPID new names like calling a subdirectory a folder, or calling programmers developers (you develop film, not software). Long before people called their tower case a "modem tower" or the "hard drive". I come from the day when it was called the base unit, and way back then you were LUCKY if yours came with 640K, because most had 128K or 256K.

The terms folder and developer I hate the most. I can always tell when someone is a new user (less than 5 years) because they use new terminology.

They have no clue about what a fossil driver is, having 300/1200 baud, or remembering when a 10 or 20 meg hard disk was VERY expensive and those were considered big.

I remember when Fido, Opus, RBBS-PC, Wildcat, TBBS, BBS-PC, and many others were mainstream. Having online games and seeing ANSI graphics.

I would use Procomm, Pibterm, Telix, Boyan, Binkleyterm, GT Powercomm, or one of countless others to call another BBS.

What really gets me in flames is when a little punk kid complaints that his new Pentium with 3D graphics, 20 gig hard disk, and the latest and greatest 3D game sucks. His gigahertz machine is just too slow.

I just want to slap him. Try using an old 4.77 mhz IBM PC or even a 10 mhz with CGA or EGA. That's all we had.

5.25" drives were common, 3.5" were not. Owning a hard disk was a luxury, and if you had to download a 50K file, it took forever because all you had was 1200 baud. The first 1200 baud modem that I bought around 87/88 was huge (bigger than a pocket book), and it got so HOT that I had to put it in the freezer for a half hour (never hurt it at all) to cool it down.

I have nothing against the graphical interface, but I come from the DOS days. I remember firing up Windows 1.0 back in 1986 and being one of the few people who even remember it, unlike some people today who SWEAR Windows 95 is the first Windows ever. If it was, then why is the copyright date from 1985???

I only know one other person who has been at this longer than me. Several of my friends have been at it almost as long. I used to work with a guy who started using computers in 1979, a few years before me. It was very interesting to talk to him and see how much has changed.

I still clearly recall the days when we only had dot matrix printers that were loud and if you wanted to print out a 500+ page BBS manual, you bought a box of 1000 sheets of tractor feed paper, started the printing, and took off for a few hours. Although it was never done by the time you came back.

We were entertained by ascii graphics and 4 color CGA games.

I am happy that the internet has made more people buy computers, but it really infuriates me that many of them don't have the first clue how to operate it, and think its a technical support reps job (I used to be one) to teach them everything about it, and when something doesn't go how they want it, its our job to fix it.

There was a customer a few years ago that didn't like how computers sort number. 1, 10, 11, 12, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. She wanted it changed. I told her to find a Delorean, go back in time a few decades, and reinvent the processor. If you don't like it, don't use it.

I learned on my own, so can they. Back in the 80's we didn't have (much) live tech support. You wanted to know how to use it, you read the manual or figured it out for yourself. No Dummies books were around. If you were really into it, you got a Peter Norton book and read over it.

Not too many remember the PKWARE lawsuit from 88. SEA wrote the Sealink protocol (the fastest protocol until Zmodem came out in 85). SEA wrote ARC, Phil came along and improved it, then SEA sued him (and unfortunately won). What a bunch of idiots. He was popularizing THEIR format. So SEA sued him, he changed over to ZIP in 89, and within 6 months, 98% of the BBS community had switched over to ZIP. SEA died soon after.

When we got our first Intel based machine, on my entire block and even a few blocks around me, I only knew of 2 other people with a computer. Even in middle school where we only had Apple iie computers, 99% of the kids didn't have a computer at home. That's how rare they were in 84. Now you see one in almost every household.

I can talk about this for hours.

But to answer your question, I didn't use then internet in the 80's, but I remember a huge amount of computers overall from back then. Today people are too dependant on the graphical interface, some are even stupid enough to think Windows isn't buggy (I had one guy tell me it isn't buggy at all.... I had a good hard laugh), they use technician and teacher as if they mean the same thing, everything is a folder (not a subdirectory like it should be), they all develop software (I guess nobody does programming anymore), and flat out, they refuse to learn.

Pretty sad what this has come to. Fortunately most of the people I know teach themselves and don't expect everything given to them.

Several months ago I was using yahoo chat (which I use maybe once every 6 months). I was in the computer chat room and reminiscing with another guy about using computers in the 80's. One lady spoke up and said "you bunch of f------ nerds" and "if I hadn't put so much money into this computer, I would just get rid of it."

1) Didn't this idiot see which room she went into? It was COMPUTERS.

2) I could care less what she thinks. We are talking about the subject of the room. If she thinks we are nerds, theres the door. Find another room to complaint in.

3) Who made her buy that machine? If she hates computers, why did she buy one then?

I wish I could go back in time and relive that generation with the technology. Sure I like my Pentium 800 at home, but I liked the days better when there was half the selection, software didn't take a masters degree to figure out, and best of all, there was no Windows 9x that has a worse crash record than the airline industry.

Ok that's enough from me...

I remember playing black and white games from cassettes on an IBM 8088 PC in kindergarten, which was the only one the school had! It was really rare for people to have computers, they weren't a "must have" item like they are now. Soon after that, my cousin got a C64, and I loved playing with it whenever I was at his house.

I got my first computer a few years later, a Tandy with 8 MHz 286, 640K RAM, 20 MB HD, 3.5" FDD, 10" color monitor, and it even had sound! That machine was fast, I could easily run any software out there. It even had a graphical user interface called DeskMate, but I also used DOS a lot. I'll never forget "Abort, Retry, Fail?", or "bad command or filename?".

I wanted to get online, but we never did. I was jealous of my uncle who had Prodigy. There was Compuserve, Prodigy, PC-Link, GEnie, and a few others to choose from, but no AOL yet! Modems were still rare, they wouldn't even become standard in PCs for 6 or 7 years. There were several BBSes here, and my software manuals had BBS numbers.

My first computer was also a Tandy from Radio Shack. Must have been around 86 or 87. It had 256k memory and came with a daisy wheel printer - remember those? I remember Deskmate well! LOL

As for the internet, I don't think I went online until the early 90s. I never thought it would catch on

: I remember playing black and white games from
: cassettes on an IBM 8088 PC in kindergarten,
: which was the only one the school had! It
: was really rare for people to have
: computers, they weren't a "must
: have" item like they are now. Soon
: after that, my cousin got a C64, and I loved
: playing with it whenever I was at his house.

: I got my first computer a few years later, a
: Tandy with 8 MHz 286, 640K RAM, 20 MB HD,
: 3.5" FDD, 10" color monitor, and
: it even had sound! That machine was fast, I
: could easily run any software out there. It
: even had a graphical user interface called
: DeskMate, but I also used DOS a lot. I'll
: never forget "Abort, Retry,
: Fail?", or "bad command or
: filename?".

: I wanted to get online, but we never did. I was
: jealous of my uncle who had Prodigy. There
: was Compuserve, Prodigy, PC-Link, GEnie, and
: a few others to choose from, but no AOL yet!
: Modems were still rare, they wouldn't even
: become standard in PCs for 6 or 7 years.
: There were several BBSes here, and my
: software manuals had BBS numbers.

When I was in grade school, computers were extremely rare. I doubt our school had any. My middle school had a computer class (and I'll be damned if I can remember what was taught) that was full of Apple computers. The teacher had one 4.77 mhz IBM PC. Since I was one of the VERY few kids in the entire school who even knew how to work a computer, I was literally the only student he allowed to use it. Nice touch.

I have several directories on my home computer filled with ascii, cga, and ega games. I still like playing them.

DOS rarely (if ever) crashed. You dreaded seeing "sector not found" on your hard disk. The cheapest drives in the mid-late 80's was over $200 and those were 20 mb drives.

My AGP video card has more memory that our entire hard disk had.

I used deskmate a little. Never liked it. I was a hardcore DOS user. In fact, to this day I use DOS for copying files, and list to read text files. I can copy files faster in dos than most people I've been around can copy in windows.

I can remember changing my prompt color using ansi codes, remapping the keyboard, patching exe and com files using debug to change the assembly language instructions, seeing the first split screen chat utility on Opus, and playing online games for hours.

I never used a large scale service like Compuserve, Prodigy, or Delphi. I was going to sign up with them until I left a message on a local BBS asking for input. Every single person flamed the hell out of Compuserve and said its worse than death. Maybe it was 12+ years ago.

I really miss the old days of computers. The days when you figured it out. There was no technical support (hell most tech support today is just totally incompetent), just manuals. You HAD to know what you were doing to use the machine.

Back in the day I never had end users whining that their computer doesn't work and its my job to fix it. Ain't gonna happen.

This is a killer for me: why would anybody go out and spend $1000 or more on a computer and have NO IDEA what they bought. I can't tell you how many users called me for support and when I asked what type of machine they have, they say "I don't know." How much memory? They don't know. How big of a hard disk? They don't know.

Now I'm not asking all that much, but think about it, would you go spend $1000+ on a car and have NO IDEA what you bought? I am not whatsoever a mechanic, but I know my engine size. I know its a 5 speed, and some of the basics. Why in the hell would someone spend over $1000 and not have a clue what they bought? Stupid.

I'm happy that the internet has bought more people into this field, but I'm really sick of people thinking its a technicians job to teach them how to use it their computer (read a book if you want to learn), or just refusing to learn, but they HAVE to have a computer.

Last fall I talked to a guy who was older than me and he remembered punch cards. Actually an assembly language programmer I used to know who was in his 70's remembered punch cards. Very interesting talking to someone who remembers TTY terminals, punch cards, and hard disks with platters over a foot in diameter.

Now everything is visual. People must have Windows (I guess the days of STABLE operating systems are over), 3D accelerators are in, everything is graphical, and people refuse to learn how to use their machine.

I remember a customer calling me years ago and saying he just bought his first computer, he knew nothing about them, but he wanted me to teach him how to use it. After I recovered from laughing, I told him I was not his personal teacher. I would explain our software (at my last job), but I was not his personal slave and it is NOT my job to show him how to work the computer. Buy a book or take a class.

It's nice taking a trip back down memory lane. Well, an 8-bit memory lane.

: When I was in grade school, computers were
: extremely rare. I doubt our school had any.
: My middle school had a computer class (and
: I'll be damned if I can remember what was
: taught) that was full of Apple computers.
: The teacher had one 4.77 mhz IBM PC. Since I
: was one of the VERY few kids in the entire
: school who even knew how to work a computer,
: I was literally the only student he allowed
: to use it. Nice touch.

: I have several directories on my home computer
: filled with ascii, cga, and ega games. I
: still like playing them.

: DOS rarely (if ever) crashed. You dreaded
: seeing "sector not found" on your
: hard disk. The cheapest drives in the
: mid-late 80's was over $200 and those were
: 20 mb drives.

: My AGP video card has more memory that our
: entire hard disk had.

: I used deskmate a little. Never liked it. I was
: a hardcore DOS user. In fact, to this day I
: use DOS for copying files, and list to read
: text files. I can copy files faster in dos
: than most people I've been around can copy
: in windows.

: I can remember changing my prompt color using
: ansi codes, remapping the keyboard, patching
: exe and com files using debug to change the
: assembly language instructions, seeing the
: first split screen chat utility on Opus, and
: playing online games for hours.

: I never used a large scale service like
: Compuserve, Prodigy, or Delphi. I was going
: to sign up with them until I left a message
: on a local BBS asking for input. Every
: single person flamed the hell out of
: Compuserve and said its worse than death.
: Maybe it was 12+ years ago.

: I really miss the old days of computers. The
: days when you figured it out. There was no
: technical support (hell most tech support
: today is just totally incompetent), just
: manuals. You HAD to know what you were doing
: to use the machine.

: Back in the day I never had end users whining
: that their computer doesn't work and its my
: job to fix it. Ain't gonna happen.

: This is a killer for me: why would anybody go
: out and spend $1000 or more on a computer
: and have NO IDEA what they bought. I can't
: tell you how many users called me for
: support and when I asked what type of
: machine they have, they say "I don't
: know." How much memory? They don't
: know. How big of a hard disk? They don't
: know.

: Now I'm not asking all that much, but think
: about it, would you go spend $1000+ on a car
: and have NO IDEA what you bought? I am not
: whatsoever a mechanic, but I know my engine
: size. I know its a 5 speed, and some of the
: basics. Why in the hell would someone spend
: over $1000 and not have a clue what they
: bought? Stupid.

: I'm happy that the internet has bought more
: people into this field, but I'm really sick
: of people thinking its a technicians job to
: teach them how to use it their computer
: (read a book if you want to learn), or just
: refusing to learn, but they HAVE to have a
: computer.

: Last fall I talked to a guy who was older than
: me and he remembered punch cards. Actually
: an assembly language programmer I used to
: know who was in his 70's remembered punch
: cards. Very interesting talking to someone
: who remembers TTY terminals, punch cards,
: and hard disks with platters over a foot in
: diameter.

: Now everything is visual. People must have
: Windows (I guess the days of STABLE
: operating systems are over), 3D accelerators
: are in, everything is graphical, and people
: refuse to learn how to use their machine.

: I remember a customer calling me years ago and
: saying he just bought his first computer, he
: knew nothing about them, but he wanted me to
: teach him how to use it. After I recovered
: from laughing, I told him I was not his
: personal teacher. I would explain our
: software (at my last job), but I was not his
: personal slave and it is NOT my job to show
: him how to work the computer. Buy a book or
: take a class.

: It's nice taking a trip back down memory lane.
: Well, an 8-bit memory lane.

I actually remember having plenty of computers around when I was in elementary school in the '80s. They all had color screens from what I remember. This was around '82-'86. But they are totally archaic by the early '90s. And now, shoot now they look like something the caveman used.

I think there used to be a program called BASIC in the early-mid '80s and if you could get the computer to type "I'm Going Crazy!" and it would flash over and over again. That was fun back then. Oohh, there was also LOG. Anyone remember LOG? You could LOG 5000 and the screen would just fill up to infinity with that little triangle.

We got our first computer in 1986, heh I still use it. It still gets the basic job done. I remember it didn't have a color screen in the beginning though.

I still use my old dot matrix printer and old '80s computer for college work. I'm printing up papers on there, not trying to get on the net or print out flyers. It gets the job done, so why change?

Anyone remember laser printers?

: I think there used to be a program called BASIC
: in the early-mid '80s and if you could get
: the computer to type "I'm Going
: Crazy!" and it would flash over and
: over again. That was fun back then. Oohh,
: there was also LOG. Anyone remember LOG? You
: could LOG 5000 and the screen would just
: fill up to infinity with that little
: triangle.

I believe you meant LOGO not LOG..

: Anyone remember laser printers?

they still make Laser Printers.. I use them all the time.. they look a lot better than ink jets.. I refuse to even buy an ink jet printer.. if I want color, I'll buy a color laser or Dye sublimation printer..

I started using BBS's around 1988 or so.. started one around 1990 or 1989.. ran it until I started this website in 1995. I started using the Internet in 1991 at college.. ftp and telnet and email and gopher mostly.. I remember using Lynx to browse the web, and thought it looked like hell and drew up pages that were too complicated.. what a big difference the graphical browsers like Mosaic made..

and not to be a nit-pick, but the original poster is a little off.. no one was using the web in the 80s, it wasn't invented yet.. online services on the other hand were around, primative but functional. AOL was not originally an Internet provider, and was trying to resist even adding web support to their service since they couldn't control it..

while I yearn for those early days of learning to use my PC, I think we're better off with moving towards a society where everyone is online.. computers shouldn't be designed to be as complicated as they are now.. they should be as easy for the "normal" user to use as a toaster for the "majority".. I'm a professional software engineer, and I doubt I would own a dumbed down machine, but I can assure you, most of the non-engineers I know, would prefer not to configure a machine or know how it works to get something done, which is after all, the reason they bought the machine

: I believe you meant LOGO not LOG..

: they still make Laser Printers.. I use them all
: the time.. they look a lot better than ink
: jets.. I refuse to even buy an ink jet
: printer.. if I want color, I'll buy a color
: laser or Dye sublimation printer..

: I started using BBS's around 1988 or so..
: started one around 1990 or 1989.. ran it
: until I started this website in 1995. I
: started using the Internet in 1991 at
: college.. ftp and telnet and email and
: gopher mostly.. I remember using Lynx to
: browse the web, and thought it looked like
: hell and drew up pages that were too
: complicated.. what a big difference the
: graphical browsers like Mosaic made..

: and not to be a nit-pick, but the original
: poster is a little off.. no one was using
: the web in the 80s, it wasn't invented yet..
: online services on the other hand were
: around, primative but functional. AOL was
: not originally an Internet provider, and was
: trying to resist even adding web support to
: their service since they couldn't control
: it..

: while I yearn for those early days of learning
: to use my PC, I think we're better off with
: moving towards a society where everyone is
: online.. computers shouldn't be designed to
: be as complicated as they are now.. they
: should be as easy for the "normal"
: user to use as a toaster for the
: "majority".. I'm a professional
: software engineer, and I doubt I would own a
: dumbed down machine, but I can assure you,
: most of the non-engineers I know, would
: prefer not to configure a machine or know
: how it works to get something done, which is
: after all, the reason they bought the
: machine

Believe it or not, the internet WAS invented back in the 1970's however, it was only used by the government and military.

: Believe it or not, the internet WAS invented
: back in the 1970's however, it was only used
: by the government and military.

it was invented in the 1960s.. I didn't say the Internet, I said the web.. two distinct and different things.. the Internet AS WE KNOW IT however, didn't really start coming together until around 1988 with the invention of TCP/IP.. up until then, various different protocols were used, and email routing was also rather interesting.. (the name@site.suffix type address didn't really exist until the late 80s, you used to have to know the path to the person's inbox from yours essentially)

People confusing the term web for the Internet is a pet peeve of mine..

and actually, the first network my BBS was connected to, was called WWIV Web.. about 4 years before HTML was created.. so I was on "the web" well before any of you...

: it was invented in the 1960s.. I didn't say the
: Internet, I said the web.. two distinct and
: different things.. the Internet AS WE KNOW
: IT however, didn't really start coming
: together until around 1988 with the
: invention of TCP/IP.. up until then, various
: different protocols were used, and email
: routing was also rather interesting.. (the
: name@site.suf fix type address didn't really
: exist until the late 80s, you used to have
: to know the path to the person's inbox from
: yours essentially)

: People confusing the term web for the Internet
: is a pet peeve of mine..

: and actually, the first network my BBS was
: connected to, was called WWIV Web.. about 4
: years before HTML was created.. so I was on
: "the web" well before any of
: you...

You yourself have commited an error here, saying you were on the BBS back in the '80s, then saying you didn't start using the internet until '91. That was the internet you were using in the '80s. There were chat rooms and forums back then just like now. Yeah they were different, but they were around.

I was sitting near my 14 year old cousin while he was hearing how President Bush Sr. was receiving emails about something back in 1990, and he said "They had email and internet back then!?", like '90 was the dark ages or something. I was like, "yeah it was around, just not really part of the culture like now".

The web was officially created in 1989, i.e. www=world wide web by an unknown and relatively uncredited Brit. Many people think the internet just appeared out of nowhere in 1993/1994, as did the "web". Those were the years it started becoming part of the mainstream culture and household terms. Mainstream society was "learning" of the net/web and thought it brand new, not realizing the net had been around for a long time. Or in the case of the web, for about 4-5 years. Then in '95, the net with the popularity of the web just skyrockted to popularity.

: The web was officially created in 1989, i.e.
: www=world wide web by an unknown and
: relatively uncredited Brit. Many people
: think the internet just appeared out of
: nowhere in 1993/1994, as did the
: "web". Those were the years it
: started becoming part of the mainstream
: culture and household terms. Mainstream
: society was "learning" of the
: net/web and thought it brand new, not
: realizing the net had been around for a long
: time. Or in the case of the web, for about
: 4-5 years. Then in '95, the net with the
: popularity of the web just skyrockted to
: popularity.

Most of the history pages I checked, list 1990 as the first year of an HTML browser. 1993 was the first year a graphical browser was available, and was probably the most important development in the history of HTML. I used to use text-only HTML browsers, and trust me, a graphical browser was a HUGE improvement.. text only browsers even then (when pages were simpler) were not convient by any stretch of the imagination.

I also don't think of 1993 and 1994 as when the public woke up to the Internet. I was working for networking companies at the time, and I assure you, no one I knew that was not a computer person, was aware of the Internet. 1995 is when it became huge, becuase that was the advent of the first versions of Netscape (and their IPO helped wake up the press)

: You yourself have commited an error here,
: saying you were on the BBS back in the '80s,
: then saying you didn't start using the
: internet until '91. That was the internet
: you were using in the '80s. There were chat
: rooms and forums back then just like now.
: Yeah they were different, but they were
: around.

no I did not.. the Internet and the world of BBS's were two totally seperate entities... The Internet in the 80s was goverment funded, and was used to wire together universities and colleges. I started using it in 1991 when I went to college (I actually saw it a couple of times before then in High School, but don't really count that).. refering to it now as the Internet, is still a bit of a faux paus, since it was really called DARPA Net.

BBS's were setup by most people as hobbies (or in the case of Channel 1, a small business). Usually they had private networks, which for the most part were stand alone, and did nothing more than pass messages (email and public messages) and an occasional file or two. Not to say a BBS couldn't be used as an interface for the Internet, I'm sure some of the later ones in the 90s were. But in that case, they were acting more like gateways to the Internet.