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Subject: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 5:48 pm
From the 1930s until the 1960s...America produced many classic animated TV shows such as Tom & Jerry, The Looney Tunes, Yogi Bear, The Flintstones, The Jetsons, Jonny Quest, Top Cat, Snagglepuss, Huckleberry Hound, Popeye, etc and classic animated films such as Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1938), Pinocchio (1940), Fantasia (1940), Dumbo (1941), Bambi (1942), Cinderella (1950), Alice in Wonderland (1951), Peter Pan (1953), Lady and the Tramp (1955), Sleeping Beauty (1959), One Hundred and One Dalmatians (1961), Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964), Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966), The Jungle Book (1967), Frosty the Snowman (1969), etc.
This era is known as the Golden Age of American Animation. Many people say that this era ended in December 1966 when Walt Disney died at the age of 65. The last film that Walt worked on was 1967's The Jungle Book. His death sent both The Walt Disney Company and the American animation industry into a downward spiral that wouldn't rise back up until the 1980s.
While there was some decent to good animated cartoons in the 1970s such as Josie and the Pussy Cats, Scooby-Doo, Where Are You!, Sealab 2020, The New Adventures of Batman, The Amazing Chan and the Chan Clan, Hong Kong Phooey, Jabberjaw (debatable), Sesame Street, etc....none of those shows (except maybe Sesame Street) were nearly as good as the classic cartoons of before the 1970s. Some of those cartoons were even parody's of pop cultural references of the 1970s.
While many notable animated films of the 1970s were not bad. You had films such as The Aristocats (1970), Charlotte's Web (1973), Robin Hood (1973), The Rescuers (1977). Those films were not nearly as good and revered as the animated films of before the 1970s and you'd be hard pressed to find any really good or great animated films from the '70s besides the 4 listed earlier.
Do you believe that the 1970s was the "dark age" of American animation?
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: 80sfan on 05/31/17 at 5:50 pm
I don't know. But I know that the 1970's and 1980's was a tough/rough time for Disney animations. Then came The Little Mermaid...
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 5:54 pm
I don't know. But I know that the 1970's and 1980's was a tough/rough time for Disney animations. Then came The Little Mermaid...
The 1970s were really the dark year for Disney. I can only name three Disney films from the 1970s: The Aristocats (1970), Robin Hood (1973) and The Rescuers (1977).
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: 80sfan on 05/31/17 at 7:04 pm
The 1970s were really the dark year for Disney. I can only name three Disney films from the 1970s: The Aristocats (1970), Robin Hood (1973) and The Rescuers (1977).
I love Robin Hood! Don't tell a soul. :(
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: #Infinity on 05/31/17 at 7:07 pm
Undeniably. It was a lousy decade for animation pretty much across the board. Disney was in the depths of its dark age following Walt's death in 1966, releasing only three new purely animated movies of original material (since The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh was a compilation of shorts from the 60s, with the only segment from the 70s being easily the least popular, anyway), none of which are considered among the studio's most classic works though all were positively received. Warner Bros. was faring even worse. Hanna-Barbera had very little to offer aside from the decent if formulaic Scooby Doo and its early spin-offs. No major competitors filled these voids. Hardly any other feature films or television series, big studio or not, made much of an impact on popular culture. Artistry was commonly sacrificed in favor of affordability.
The only two really positive things about the 1970s in animation are, firstly, Schoolhouse Rock, and secondly, Ralph Bakshi's breakthrough works, which were crude but did at least have some originality and were pivotal stepping stones towards animation's eventual foray into more mature themes. Going beyond strictly American animation, some might argue anime in the 1970s had some gems, like Lupin III and Doraemon, but overall Japanese animation did not really reach its artistic peak until the 80s, 90s, and 2000s.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 7:23 pm
I love Robin Hood! Don't tell a soul. :(
I like Robin Hood as well.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 7:33 pm
Undeniably. It was a lousy decade for animation pretty much across the board. Disney was in the depths of its dark age following Walt's death in 1966, releasing only three new purely animated movies of original material (since The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh was a compilation of shorts from the 60s, with the only segment from the 70s being easily the least popular, anyway), none of which are considered among the studio's most classic works though all were positively received. Warner Bros. was faring even worse. Hanna-Barbera had very little to offer aside from the decent if formulaic Scooby Doo and its early spin-offs. No major competitors filled these voids. Hardly any other feature films or television series, big studio or not, made much of an impact on popular culture. Artistry was commonly sacrificed in favor of affordability.
The only two really positive things about the 1970s in animation are, firstly, Schoolhouse Rock, and secondly, Ralph Bakshi's breakthrough works, which were crude but did at least have some originality and were pivotal stepping stones towards animation's eventual foray into more mature themes. Going beyond strictly American animation, some might argue anime in the 1970s had some gems, like Lupin III and Doraemon, but overall Japanese animation did not really reach its artistic peak until the 80s, 90s, and 2000s.
You are totally correct in your summation.
Japan was doing better when it comes to animation than the US. You already mentioned Lupin III and Doraemon. There was also Mobile Suit Gundam. However, yes Japanimation (aka anime) didn't peak until the 1980s-2000s.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Sir Rothchild on 05/31/17 at 8:02 pm
To me, it was really awful for the most part. Not a lot of animation companies really hit it well after Walt Disney's death in December of 1966. He was the reason why the animation industry existed, especially with inspiring many cartoonists to this day. Aside from that, they didn't release a lot of good cartoons on either TV or film. Disney suffered the worst because they didn't release enough movies for the general public. They only had The Aristocats and The Rescuers, in which they didn't as well as any Golden Age Disney film. It was so awkward that they didn't have another masterpiece until they released The Little Mermaid in 1989.
As for Hanna-Barbara, I think most of the stuff they did at the time were just Scooby-Doo ripoffs. Or at least have most of their cartoons look like Scooby-Doo for some reason. They at least were successful during the 70s, since a lot of kids at the time watched their cartoons every Saturday morning. Come to think of it, they were pretty much like the only animation company that did well during that time. It wasn't enormously successful, but it had enough interesting sorts of shows that people could recognize. For other companies, it was quite hard. I pretty much blame the economy that the 70s had, especially towards the '73 and '79 energy crisis.
In my personal opinion, it's one of the weakest decades for animation. Although I don't like the 70s as a whole, since it's not really my type. I'm glad they actually made it better during the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. It was like a renaissance for a lot of cartoon fanatics, in which I agree with.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: 80sfan on 05/31/17 at 8:08 pm
I like Robin Hood as well.
What do you think about the 1980's, when it comes to American animation?? I'm interested in your knowledge on the 1980's? 8) 8) ;)
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 8:55 pm
To me, it was really awful for the most part. Not a lot of animation companies really hit it well after Walt Disney's death in December of 1966. He was the reason why the animation industry existed, especially with inspiring many cartoonists to this day. Aside from that, they didn't release a lot of good cartoons on either TV or film. Disney suffered the worst because they didn't release enough movies for the general public. They only had The Aristocats and The Rescuers, in which they didn't as well as any Golden Age Disney film. It was so awkward that they didn't have another masterpiece until they released The Little Mermaid in 1989.
As for Hanna-Barbara, I think most of the stuff they did at the time were just Scooby-Doo ripoffs. Or at least have most of their cartoons look like Scooby-Doo for some reason. They at least were successful during the 70s, since a lot of kids at the time watched their cartoons every Saturday morning. Come to think of it, they were pretty much like the only animation company that did well during that time. It wasn't enormously successful, but it had enough interesting sorts of shows that people could recognize. For other companies, it was quite hard. I pretty much blame the economy that the 70s had, especially towards the '73 and '79 energy crisis.
In my personal opinion, it's one of the weakest decades for animation. Although I don't like the 70s as a whole, since it's not really my type. I'm glad they actually made it better during the 80s, 90s, and 2000s. It was like a renaissance for a lot of cartoon fanatics, in which I agree with.
Yeah, you got it. Solid points.
I actually like the 1970s though (particularly, 1975-1979). It's only the fact that American animation and the American economy sucked but I still would like to groove it out 8).
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Zelek3 on 05/31/17 at 9:10 pm
To me, it was really awful for the most part. Not a lot of animation companies really hit it well after Walt Disney's death in December of 1966.
Maybe Walt's death was a mercy killing on God's part. He probably would've had a heart attack upon seeing all that "hippie degeneracy" - that a staunch conservative like him would typically hate - going mainstream just one month later with the Human Be-In Festival. He at least died when things were still right in the world. ;D
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 9:16 pm
What do you think about the 1980's, when it comes to American animation?? I'm interested in your knowledge on the 1980's? 8) 8) ;)
I actually find American animation from the 1980s to be SUPER cheesy....pretty much every animated TV show and movie (with some a few exceptions) were cheesy. Also, almost every popular 1980s animated show had a PSA about the War on Drugs (or at least an episode alluding to or referencing drugs). However, despite a lot of the cheese and War on Drugs stuff....I do like some.
1980s American animated TV shows I like are:
1. The Transformers (G1)
2. G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero
3. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987)
4. DuckTales
5. Thundercats
6. Inspector Gadget
7. He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
8. Voltron: Defender of the Universe
9. Alvin and the Chipmunks
10. Muppet Babies
11. Jem (guilty pleasure :-[)
I have never liked The Smurfs, A Pup Named Scooby-Doo or The Tom & Jerry Comedy Show though :-X :-X :-X. I'll get out.
1980s American animated films that I like are:
1. The Fox and the Hound (1981)
2. The Great Mouse Detective (1986)
3. The Transformers: The Movie (1986)
4. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988)
5. The Land Before Time (1988)
6. The Little Mermaid (1989)
The Black Cauldron (1985) was meh/average. It isn't my cup of tea.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 9:21 pm
Maybe Walt's death was a mercy killing on God's part. He probably would've had a heart attack upon seeing all that "hippie degeneracy" - that a staunch conservative like him would typically hate - going mainstream just one month later with the Human Be-In Festival. He at least died when things were still right in the world. ;D
I know you're being facetious but it would have been interesting to see how Disney films would have been in the Vietnam and counterculture era (1967-1973) with Walt Disney still at the helm. Damn, we missed some potential classics.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: #Infinity on 05/31/17 at 9:25 pm
I know you're being facetious but it would have been interesting to see how Disney films would have been in the Vietnam and counterculture era (1967-1973) with Walt Disney still at the helm. Damn, we missed some potential classics.
I know Alice in Wonderland became way more popular in the late 60s, thanks largely to Jefferson Airplane's "White Rabbit" and the film's focus on trippy visuals and dialogue just fitting in better in general with late 60s sensibilities than early 50s ones. Also, one of the felines in the alley cat band from The Aristocats is a hippie.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cb/a3/c8/cba3c817031f995c0356b4f5aeeb337a.jpg
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: 80sfan on 05/31/17 at 9:31 pm
I actually find American animation from the 1980s to be SUPER cheesy....pretty much every animated TV show and movie (with some a few exceptions) were cheesy. Also, almost every popular 1980s animated show had a PSA about the War on Drugs (or at least an episode alluding to or referencing drugs). However, despite a lot of the cheese and War on Drugs stuff....I do like some.
1980s American animated TV shows I like are:
1. The Transformers (G1)
2. G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero
3. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987)
4. DuckTales
5. Thundercats
6. Inspector Gadget
7. He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
8. Voltron: Defender of the Universe
9. Alvin and the Chipmunks
10. Muppet Babies
11. Jem (guilty pleasure :-
I have never liked The Smurfs, A Pup Named Scooby-Doo or The Tom & Jerry Comedy Show though :-X :-X :-X. I'll get out.
1980s American animated films that I like are:
1. The Fox and the Hound (1981)
2. The Great Mouse Detective (1986)
3. The Transformers: The Movie (1986)
4. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988)
5. The Land Before Time (1988)
6. The Little Mermaid (1989)
The Black Cauldron (1985) was meh/average. It isn't my cup of tea.
I like all three of those cartoons, but no, don't bow out. I like your assessments on things in pop culture.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: #Infinity on 05/31/17 at 9:31 pm
I actually find American animation from the 1980s to be SUPER cheesy....pretty much every animated TV show and movie (with some a few exceptions) were cheesy. Also, almost every popular 1980s animated show had a PSA about the War on Drugs (or at least an episode alluding to or referencing drugs). However, despite a lot of the cheese and War on Drugs stuff....I do like some.
1980s American animated TV shows I like are:
1. The Transformers (G1)
2. G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero
3. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1987)
4. DuckTales
5. Thundercats
6. Inspector Gadget
7. He-Man and the Masters of the Universe
8. Voltron: Defender of the Universe
9. Alvin and the Chipmunks
10. Muppet Babies
11. Jem (guilty pleasure :-1980s American animated films that I like are:
1. The Fox and the Hound (1981)
2. The Great Mouse Detective (1986)
3. The Transformers: The Movie (1986)
4. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988)
5. The Land Before Time (1988)
6. The Little Mermaid (1989)
Not only did you have Don Bluth finally filling the aforementioned void in film, you also had the first several Studio Ghibli movies released in Japan, although most Americans wouldn't know about them until the late 90s and early 2000s.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 9:35 pm
I know Alice in Wonderland became way more popular in the late 60s, thanks largely to Jefferson Airplane's "White Rabbit" and the film's focus on trippy visuals and dialogue just fitting in better in general with late 60s sensibilities than early 50s ones. Also, one of the felines in the alley cat band from The Aristocats is a hippie.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cb/a3/c8/cba3c817031f995c0356b4f5aeeb337a.jpg
I didn't know about the Alice in Wonderland thing but thats so cool (and hippie ;D). I knew about The Aristocats hippie alley cat 8).
Now, imagine if Walt was still alive then :D.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 9:36 pm
I like all three of those cartoons, but no, don't bow out. I like your assessments on things in pop culture.
Thanks man :).
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 05/31/17 at 9:39 pm
Yeah, all those cartoons are a major part of why the 1980s were so much better than the 1970s for animation, especially 1983 onwards, in particular. Everything was really toyetic, but that usually led to distinguishable characters and a variety of neat show ideas. As a kid, shows and merchandise greatly enhanced each other's appeal for me, which is why I think Pokémon was so huge, as well.
I absolutely agree.
Not only did you have Don Bluth finally filling the aforementioned void in film, you also had the first several Studio Ghibli movies released in Japan, although most Americans wouldn't know about them until the late 90s and early 2000s.
Yes, Don Bluth and Studio Ghibli (Hayao Miyazaki) put out some great films in the 1980s.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: NewMedalz on 06/02/17 at 2:35 am
Watership Down really deserves a mention, as does Fritz the Cat for really pushing the boundaries of what animation had been up until that time.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 10:34 am
Watership Down really deserves a mention, as does Fritz the Cat for really pushing the boundaries of what animation had been up until that time.
Watership Down is a British film (this thread is about American animation).
Fritz the Cat is definitely not kid friendly. It's X-Rated and features explicit content. This thread is really for kid friendly American animated TV shows and films.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: #Infinity on 06/02/17 at 11:05 am
Watership Down is a British film (this thread is about American animation).
This is true, though Americans certainly knew about it.
Fritz the Cat is definitely not kid friendly. It's X-Rated and features explicit content. This thread is really for kid friendly American animated TV shows and films.
Who ever said it was? I thought we were just discussing American animation in general, regardless of demographic appeal. ???
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 12:06 pm
Who ever said it was? I thought we were just discussing American animation in general, regardless of demographic appeal. ???
Well, I just did. I kind of thought that it's implied that I was mainly talking about kid friendly animation. However, since it (Fritz the Cat) has been brought up then......whatever.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: NewMedalz on 06/02/17 at 1:21 pm
Watership Down is a British film (this thread is about American animation).
Fritz the Cat is definitely not kid friendly. It's X-Rated and features explicit content. This thread is really for kid friendly American animated TV shows and films.
Yes it was an English production, but was distributed in America and was certainly known in the states. Either way, it would qualify as a prolific English language animated film, possibly the best of the whole decade, so it warrants a mention.
I didn't see the caveat that you were discussing kid friendly animation. Ralph Bakshi's work generally wasn't all that "kid-friendly" but it was probably the most pioneering animation of the decade so there's no point in leaving him out if you're discussing the art in the '70s.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: #Infinity on 06/02/17 at 1:24 pm
Well, I just did. I kind of thought that it's implied that I was mainly talking about kid friendly animation. However, since it (Fritz the Cat) has been brought up then......whatever.
Why does everybody here fixate so much on "kid" culture? Sure, it's sometimes fun to look back on your formative years, but can't you just appreciate something for what it is, rather than forcing labels into the discussion?
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: mach!ne_he@d on 06/02/17 at 1:33 pm
The '70s was the decade when networks first began to notice that kids would watch cartoons on Saturday mornings no matter how terribly written or animated they were, and basically asked themselves, why should we waste the money creating a compelling product when kids are going to watch regardless?
The '80s had their own problems, which you laid out earlier. Most cartoons in the early and mid '80s were either trying to sell toys like Transformers, or trying to send some cheesy message like The Get Along Gang. Even though I was only born in the late '80s, I did experience this era somewhat growing up watching shows like Alvin and the Chipmunks and G.I. Joe which have decidedly not aged well.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 2:06 pm
Yes it was an English production, but was distributed in America and was certainly known in the states. Either way, it would qualify as a prolific English language animated film, possibly the best of the whole decade, so it warrants a mention.
Yeah but's still not from the USA. This thread isn't about English language animated films but AMERICAN animated films and TV shows.
I didn't see the caveat that you were discussing kid friendly animation. Ralph Bakshi's work generally wasn't all that "kid-friendly" but it was probably the most pioneering animation of the decade so there's no point in leaving him out if you're discussing the art in the '70s.
I'm not debating if Ralph Bakshi's work was "pioneering" or not. However, I opened this thread to talk about the 1970s in American animation in the sense of how the US went from the Golden Age of American animation with shows such as Tom & Jerry & The Looney Tunes and movies such as Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp to the wackiness of the 1970s cartoons and animated films from the US.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 2:11 pm
Why does everybody here fixate so much on "kid" culture? Sure, it's sometimes fun to look back on your formative years, but can't you just appreciate something for what it is, rather than forcing labels into the discussion?
Nowhere did I say we had to talk about kid culture. Many of the classic cartoons like The Looney Tunes, Tom & Jerry, The Flintstones, etc weren't meant for kids but it's just that kids had (and still do) more time to watch cartoons than adults, in general...so cartoons were (and still are) seen as more of a kid thing.
This thread, in my inclination, was to discuss how the Golden Age of Animation fell in the US and how the 1970s become a wasteland for American animation and what came out it's wackiness (especially pertaining to Hanna-Barbera and parody cartoons).
However, if you and NewMedalz want to talk about Fritz and the Cat and other similar films...go ahead (as long as they are from the United States of America).
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 2:16 pm
The '70s was the decade when networks first began to notice that kids would watch cartoons on Saturday mornings no matter how terribly written or animated they were, and basically asked themselves, why should we waste the money creating a compelling product when kids are going to watch regardless?
The '80s had their own problems, which you laid out earlier. Most cartoons in the early and mid '80s were either trying to sell toys like Transformers, or trying to send some cheesy message like The Get Along Gang. Even though I was only born in the late '80s, I did experience this era somewhat growing up watching shows like Alvin and the Chipmunks and G.I. Joe which have decidedly not aged well.
Yeah, nice assessment and solid points.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Sir Rothchild on 06/02/17 at 2:33 pm
Why does everybody here fixate so much on "kid" culture? Sure, it's sometimes fun to look back on your formative years, but can't you just appreciate something for what it is, rather than forcing labels into the discussion?
Not everyone does, but it might have to deal with Zelek's preaching about late 2006 being the pinnacle of everything awful about the 2000s.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 2:36 pm
Not everyone does, but it might have to deal with Zelek's preaching about late 2006 being the pinnacle of everything awful about the 2000s.
No, this doesn't have anything to do with Zelek3 ???.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: NewMedalz on 06/02/17 at 2:45 pm
Yeah but's still not from the USA. This thread isn't about English language animated films but AMERICAN animated films and TV shows.
I'm not debating if Ralph Bakshi's work was "pioneering" or not. However, I opened this thread to talk about the 1970s in American animation in the sense of how the US went from the Golden Age of American animation with shows such as Tom & Jerry & The Looney Tunes and movies such as Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp to the wackiness of the 1970s cartoons and animated films from the US.
The 1960s weren't exactly some "golden age" for animation, either. The Flintstones and The Jetsons may have been influential shows, but you had a very comparable lack of animated films to the following decade (I count three animated Disney films from 1960-69 and no other feature length American animation). I do think animated films were taken a little less seriously and had more difficulties with achieving production in the New Hollywood era, but I don't think in terms of numbers it's as big of a decline as you're making it out to be.
And again, there's no point in discussing the art of animation in that decade and then say we can't discuss pioneers in the genre like Bakshi just due to content. You can't have a discussion about animation in the 1970s and not mention his work.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 2:50 pm
The 1960s weren't exactly some "golden age" for animation, either. The Flintstones and The Jetsons may have been influential shows, but you had a very comparable lack of animated films to the following decade (I count three animated Disney films from 1960-69 and no other feature length American animation). I do think animated films were taken a little less seriously and had more difficulties with achiieving production in the New Hollywood era, but I don't think in terms of numbers it's as big of a decline as you're making it out to be.
The Golden Age of American animation is actually a defined time in US history which spans from 1928/early 1930s until 1969.
The decline was huge and I'm not exaggerating. Disney wouldn't rise back up to it's pre-1967 hieght and fame until very, very late 1989 with The Little Mermaid.
Animated shorts and films wouldn't become as revered as back then and cartoons ditched their classic and more adult feel to become mostly kids profiting machines (alas, Saturday morning cartoons).
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 2:56 pm
And again, there's no point in discussing the art of animation in that decade and then say we can't discuss pioneers in the genre like Bakshi just due to content. You can't have a discussion about animation in the 1970s and not mention his work.
I didn't say that his name and work can't be mentioned but you know what.....never mind. Do whatever.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: 2001 on 06/02/17 at 3:01 pm
Wrong.
Pink Panther, Wacky Races and Scooby Doo are great. Those are my favourites.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: NewMedalz on 06/02/17 at 3:02 pm
The Golden Age of American animation is actually a defined time in US history which spans from 1928/early 1930s until 1969.
The decline was huge and I'm not exaggerating. Disney wouldn't rise back up to it's pre-1967 hieght and fame until very, very late 1989 with The Little Mermaid.
Animated shorts and films wouldn't become as revered as back then and cartoons ditched their classic and more adult feel to become mostly kids profiting machines (alas, Saturday morning cartoons).
I count only seven feature length, animated American studio films from the 1960s (three from Disney, two from Hanna-Barbera, Gay Purr-ee from 1962, and A Boy Named Charlie Brown from 1969).
In terms of film output the two decades were basically identical.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 3:08 pm
I count only seven feature length, animated American studio films from the 1960s (three from Disney, two from Hanna-Barbera, Gay Purr-ee from 1962, and A Boy Named Charlie Brown from 1969).
In terms of film output the two decades were basically identical.
It's not about film output....it's about film quality and ratings (by both critics and fans). The Golden Age of American animation was and will always be 1928-1969.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 3:17 pm
Wrong.
Pink Panther, Wacky Races and Scooby Doo are great. Those are my favourites.
Wacky Races wasn't a 1970s cartoon..it aired from 1968-1969.
Also, I never said that the 1970s didn't have any gems but compared to the decades before it, the 1970s were lackluster in many areas. Heck, I even pointed out some other good '70s toons in my original post.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Sir Rothchild on 06/02/17 at 3:45 pm
No, this doesn't have anything to do with Zelek3 ???.
Well, I didn't say it was true. Sure, he takes it as a joke, but that doesn't mean he spams it for no reason.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: NewMedalz on 06/02/17 at 4:07 pm
It's not about film output....it's about film quality and ratings (by both critics and fans). The Golden Age of American animation was and will always be 1928-1969.
Why? Other than perhaps The Jungle Book, what animated films from the 1960s really stood out quality wise compared to the following decade?
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 4:14 pm
Why? Other than perhaps The Jungle Book, what animated films from the 1960s really stood out quality wise compared to the following decade?
One Hundred and One Dalmatians (1961), Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964), Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966), Frosty the Snowman (1969).
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: NewMedalz on 06/02/17 at 4:24 pm
One Hundred and One Dalmatians (1961), Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964), Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966), Frosty the Snowman (1969).
Other than The Grinch, I don't think any of those really stand out comparatively, and that one was a 25 minute TV film, not a feature length studio production. Seems like weak rationale for categorizing the 1960s as a golden age for animated films compared to other decades.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 5:01 pm
Other than The Grinch, I don't think any of those really stand out comparatively, and that one was a 25 minute TV film, not a feature length studio production. Seems like weak rationale for categorizing the 1960s as a golden age for animated films compared to other decades.
It wasn't just those animated films but 1960s cartoons, that made the '60s stand out. Also, I'm didn't just make this whole thing up, so I don't see what your problem is. The Golden Age of American animation (1928-1969) is an actual historical classification. No one is saying that the 1970s was completely terrible for American animation but it was certainly it's low point...TV ratings, film ratings and pop cultural reverence proves that. I don't see a lot of people taking about '70s cartoons outside of Scooby Doo, Where Are You, Pink Panther and maybe Josie and the Pussycats. Also, I don't see many people talking about or bringing up The Aristocats (1970), Robin Hood (1973), The Rescuers (1977), etc much and especially when talking about classic or the greatest American animated films of all time.
Also, saying that One Hundred and One Dalmatians (1961), Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964) & Frosty the Snowman (1969) don't stand out is pretty contrary to the general consensus.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: NewMedalz on 06/02/17 at 6:34 pm
It wasn't just those animated films but 1960s cartoons, that made the '60s stand out. Also, I'm didn't just make this whole thing up, so I don't see what your problem is. The Golden Age of American animation (1928-1969) is an actual historical classification. No one is saying that the 1970s was completely terrible for American animation but it was certainly it's low point...TV ratings, film ratings and pop cultural reverence proves that. I don't see a lot of people taking about '70s cartoons outside of Scooby Doo, Where Are You, Pink Panther and maybe Josie and the Pussycats. Also, I don't see many people talking about or bringing up The Aristocats (1970), Robin Hood (1973), The Rescuers (1977), etc much and especially when talking about classic or the greatest American animated films of all time.
Also, saying that One Hundred and One Dalmatians (1961), Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964) & Frosty the Snowman (1969) don't stand out is pretty contrary to the general consensus.
It's a subjective classification though, and I really wouldn't extend it to 1969 or much past 1960. I wouldn't necessarily even disagree that the 1970s were a bit of a lull for classic animation, but I just don't seem them as all that distinct from the 1960s or 1980s in that regard, both of which were also a bit lacking in classic animated films and saw a transition from animated shorts into television.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 6:40 pm
It's a subjective classification though, and I really wouldn't extend it to 1969 or much past 1960. I wouldn't necessarily even disagree that the 1970s were a bit of a lull for classic animation, but I just don't seem them as all that distinct from the 1960s or 1980s in that regard, both of which were also a bit lacking in classic animated films and saw a transition from animated shorts into television.
The 1960s & 1980s in American animation was much more distinct than the 1970s. Also, the Golden Age of American animation is historical classification that you may disagree with but is actually rooted in many factual things. Anyways, I certainly think that the '70s weren't that good when it comes to American animation.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: 80sfan on 06/02/17 at 6:44 pm
It's not about film output....it's about film quality and ratings (by both critics and fans). The Golden Age of American animation was and will always be 1928-1969.
I love 1930's animation! :-X :-X :-X
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: 80sfan on 06/02/17 at 6:45 pm
One Hundred and One Dalmatians (1961), Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (1964), Dr. Seuss' How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966), Frosty the Snowman (1969).
Those are Christmas classics! 8) 8) 8)
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 6:52 pm
Those are Christmas classics! 8) 8) 8)
Absolutely! 8)
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Heinz57 on 06/02/17 at 8:11 pm
My era was 60s cartoons, I though they were the best. My brother and sister were 70s kids, they thought the 70s cartoons were the best. They hated 80s cartoons. My kids were born in the late 80s and watched 90s cartoons, they thought 90s cartoons were the best. I thought they were horrible. ;D
Whatever decade you were a kid in, those cartoons were the best. That's how it goes, doesn't it?
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 8:18 pm
My era was 60s cartoons, I though they were the best. My brother and sister were 70s kids, they thought the 70s cartoons were the best. They hated 80s cartoons. My kids were born in the late 80s and watched 90s cartoons, they thought 90s cartoons were the best. I thought they were horrible. ;D
Whatever decade you were a kid in, those cartoons were the best. That's how it goes, doesn't it?
Well you have a point.
However, this thread isn't about which decade had the best kids cartoons but more of historical analysis on why many people (or should I say historians...sort of) think that the 1970s was the low point of American animation in the 20th century especially when compared to the Golden Age of American animation (1928-1969).
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Zelek3 on 06/02/17 at 9:30 pm
1969, golden age of animation? I thought the golden age ended around the late 50s. The 60s are when Tom & Jerry and Looney Tunes were farmed out to weaker directors like Rudy Larriva and Gene Deitch, for a cheaper price. These 60s shorts had recycled animation, poorer-written plots, repetitive music, and unfunnier jokes compared to the 40s-50s shorts.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/02/17 at 9:33 pm
1969, golden age of animation? I thought the golden age ended around the late 50s. The 60s are when Tom & Jerry and Looney Tunes were farmed out to weaker directors like Rudy Larriva and Gene Deitch, for a cheaper price. These 60s shorts had recycled animation, poorer-written plots, repetitive music, and unfunnier jokes compared to the 40s-50s shorts.
Well, that's why the time period is considered to have ended in the 1960s (1969). Also, animation is more than animated TV cartoons (which the 1960s had many classics anyways).
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Lizardmatum on 06/05/17 at 1:11 pm
This is actually one of the reasons that I'm not a big fan of the 70's. I'm a big fan of animation and in the 70's there was just such a lack of quantity and quality. The Disney movies were not as promising either in the 70's.
As to when the golden age ended I think that's debatable. I remember reading the animators survival kit by Richard Williams who was instructed and trained by some of the old masters of animation such as Milt Kahl and he seemed to think that the golden age ended after the 40's when they introduced a flatter more stylized look for cartoons such as Looney Tunes as opposed to the rounder more bouncy look to the 40's cartoons. I don't agree with him as I think the 50's and 60's are great as well but that's what I remember reading.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: dbutler69 on 06/07/17 at 1:15 pm
Well, it was a pretty weak decade for animation overall, especially movies, though I, too, liked Robin Hood. On the Japanese front, Star Blazers is perhaps my all time favorite animated series, but there were some real gems on the Saturday morning cartoon front IMHO: Star Trek: The Animated Series; Schoolhouse Rock; Tarzan, Lord of the Jungle; and Superfriends. Plus some Scooby Doo, and I think there were some new Pink Panther and Woody Woodpecker shorts in the 70's, though I could be mistaken about those two.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 06/07/17 at 3:36 pm
Well, it was a pretty weak decade for animation overall, especially movies, though I, too, liked Robin Hood. On the Japanese front, Star Blazers is perhaps my all time favorite animated series, but there were some real gems on the Saturday morning cartoon front IMHO: Star Trek: The Animated Series; Schoolhouse Rock; Tarzan, Lord of the Jungle; and Superfriends. Plus some Scooby Doo, and I think there were some new Pink Panther and Woody Woodpecker shorts in the 70's, though I could be mistaken about those two.
No, you're correct.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: #Infinity on 06/09/17 at 6:49 pm
my life feels deader than animation this decade
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: aspireone on 06/27/17 at 1:42 am
my life feels deader than animation this decade
Animation is alive and well this decade, what are you saying?
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Sir Rothchild on 06/27/17 at 6:12 am
Animation is alive and well this decade, what are you saying?
She was emotionally depressed when she made that post. She meant that animation in the 70s was more vibrant than her love life.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Mushroom on 07/23/17 at 4:34 pm
A lot of the problem with 1970's cartoons relates directly to 2 different actions.
The first was the 1969 decision from the FCC to ban using advertising mascots in broadcast programs. This had 2 effects. First off, it prohibited most characters from cross-over promotions for the most part. This killed such programs as Linus the Lionhearted (based upon General Mills cereal characters), with all of the cereals dying out with the exception of Sugar Bear in Sugar Crisp (now Golden Crisp). The only other real survivor was Fruity and Cocoa Pebbles, since The Flintstones had been off the air for 6 years prior to the introduction of this cereal.
The other was the "Surgeon General's Scientific Advisory Committee on Television and Social Behavior" in 1971. This attempted to link violence in cartoons with childhood violence, and forever changed how cartoons were made.
Prior to that, we had shows like Johnny Quest (singled out in the report as exceptionally violent), Shazzan, and even Tom & Jerry and Looney Tunes were either "soft banned" from TV, or butchered to remove "excessive violence".
To get around that, programs pretty much eliminated all violence, and turned to "message shows". Super Friends is a good example of this, as is Tarzan, The Lone Ranger, Emergency +4, Lassie's Rescue Rangers, and a slew of others. And at the same time companies started to produce more "Live Action" shows, which were just the same. Run Joe Run, Wonderbug, Shazaam-ISIS, Ark II, Ghost Busters, and many others similar shows largely forgotten. This even continued up into the 80's with GI Joe. Most of the show being about a do-good point, then a small sermon at the end to do good.
No longer were such shows simple entertainment, now they were morality plays. And the quality suffered. And to get around the advertising bans, the creators started to make the products-toys first, then created the show around them (He-Man, GI Joe, etc). This way the show is based on the toys, not the toys based on the show.
This to me is what culminated in the death of the US animation industry. Filmation, Hanna-Barbera, Kroft, DePatie–Freleng, and others (Ruby-Spears never had a chance, being founded in this era). By the 1980's the US companies were out, being replaced by cheaper companies operated overseas.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 07/23/17 at 10:28 pm
A lot of the problem with 1970's cartoons relates directly to 2 different actions.
The first was the 1969 decision from the FCC to ban using advertising mascots in broadcast programs. This had 2 effects. First off, it prohibited most characters from cross-over promotions for the most part. This killed such programs as Linus the Lionhearted (based upon General Mills cereal characters), with all of the cereals dying out with the exception of Sugar Bear in Sugar Crisp (now Golden Crisp). The only other real survivor was Fruity and Cocoa Pebbles, since The Flintstones had been off the air for 6 years prior to the introduction of this cereal.
The other was the "Surgeon General's Scientific Advisory Committee on Television and Social Behavior" in 1971. This attempted to link violence in cartoons with childhood violence, and forever changed how cartoons were made.
Prior to that, we had shows like Johnny Quest (singled out in the report as exceptionally violent), Shazzan, and even Tom & Jerry and Looney Tunes were either "soft banned" from TV, or butchered to remove "excessive violence".
To get around that, programs pretty much eliminated all violence, and turned to "message shows". Super Friends is a good example of this, as is Tarzan, The Lone Ranger, Emergency +4, Lassie's Rescue Rangers, and a slew of others. And at the same time companies started to produce more "Live Action" shows, which were just the same. Run Joe Run, Wonderbug, Shazaam-ISIS, Ark II, Ghost Busters, and many others similar shows largely forgotten. This even continued up into the 80's with GI Joe. Most of the show being about a do-good point, then a small sermon at the end to do good.
No longer were such shows simple entertainment, now they were morality plays. And the quality suffered. And to get around the advertising bans, the creators started to make the products-toys first, then created the show around them (He-Man, GI Joe, etc). This way the show is based on the toys, not the toys based on the show.
This to me is what culminated in the death of the US animation industry. Filmation, Hanna-Barbera, Kroft, DePatie–Freleng, and others (Ruby-Spears never had a chance, being founded in this era). By the 1980's the US companies were out, being replaced by cheaper companies operated overseas.
Nice detailed post. I learned some new things.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Mushroom on 07/24/17 at 12:12 pm
Nice detailed post. I learned some new things.
I still remember that era very clearly, and the way shows changed in that era.
The more modern changes are even related to that. The FCC guidelines only applied to broadcast commercial TV. NET (later PBS) was excluded, because they were non-profit. And cable at that time really did not exist outside of a few select locations.
So when cable became big in the 1980's, the new networks realized that those FCC and other regulations did not apply to them. Not unlike how the Comic Code is pretty much dead, since Marvel and most other publishers no longer follow their guidelines, with no adverse effect.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 07/24/17 at 12:14 pm
I still remember that era very clearly, and the way shows changed in that era.
The more modern changes are even related to that. The FCC guidelines only applied to broadcast commercial TV. NET (later PBS) was excluded, because they were non-profit. And cable at that time really did not exist outside of a few select locations.
So when cable became big in the 1980's, the new networks realized that those FCC and other regulations did not apply to them. Not unlike how the Comic Code is pretty much dead, since Marvel and most other publishers no longer follow their guidelines, with no adverse effect.
Interesting. Thanks again :).
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: LooseBolt on 09/01/17 at 9:03 pm
By way of rebuttal: Peanuts cartoons. The 1970s ones like Snoopy Come Home were the bomb.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: yelimsexa on 09/11/17 at 10:13 am
In addition to being poorer in quality, the access to them wasn't as good. Outside of Saturday mornings, some TV stations (mostly the smaller, independent stations) would play compilations of theatrical shorts, usually during the early morning but sometimes in the late afternoon, but there weren't any first-run cartoons like you would see in the '80s and beyond with daily stripping and cable. Plus, given the seasonality of cartoons, you would only have new episodes, outside of the occasional primetime special, air from the Sunday after Labor Day to around Thanksgiving (a practice that continued well into the '90s on Saturday Morning). The shorts that had long opened nights at the movies died early in the decade outside of some catalog material at some theaters, and imports from overseas weren't widely available. There's a reason why most of these shows aren't on Boomerang and have a scarce print run on DVD: they targeted a demo of a certain age, but where mostly just a variation on a familiar theme, not to mention that 8 FPS animation with frequent repeats of background models and recycled sounds/background music just has that "kids won't care about the quality of the show" mantra to it.
But thankfully, the '80s brought the boom in home video, cable, improved regulations, and eventually better animated features, and this opened up a lot more people into the industry, and of course a lot of the baby boomers who grew up with the classics were drawing their inspirations during that decade during production. Although primarily used outside of cartoons, CGI also had its first heyday and Claymation became popular.
Even though the later '60s weren't as truly golden as previously, remember that this was when the concept of TV cartoons was still fresh and new (and also when Hanna-Barbera truly knew what they were doing, including the first Scooby-Doo series). Still, I'd peg 1966 as the end of the Golden Age, thanks to Disney's Death, the nosedive quality of Looney Tunes past the point of no return by then, and the cancellation of The Flinstones
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 09/11/17 at 10:22 am
In addition to being poorer in quality, the access to them wasn't as good. Outside of Saturday mornings, some TV stations (mostly the smaller, independent stations) would play compilations of theatrical shorts, usually during the early morning but sometimes in the late afternoon, but there weren't any first-run cartoons like you would see in the '80s and beyond with daily stripping and cable. Plus, given the seasonality of cartoons, you would only have new episodes, outside of the occasional primetime special, air from the Sunday after Labor Day to around Thanksgiving (a practice that continued well into the '90s on Saturday Morning). The shorts that dominated nights at the movies died early in the decade outside of some catalog material at some theaters, and imports from overseas weren't widely available. There's a reason why most of these shows aren't on Boomerang and have a scarce print run on DVD: they targeted a demo of a certain age, but where mostly just a variation on a familiar theme, not to mention that 8 FPS animation with frequent repeats of background models and recycled sounds/background music just has that "kids won't care about the quality of the show" mantra to it.
But thankfully, the '80s brought the boom in home video, cable, improved regulations, and eventually better animated features, and this opened up a lot more people into the industry, and of course a lot of the baby boomers who grew up with the classics were drawing their inspirations during that decade during production. Although primarily used outside of cartoons, CGI also had its first heyday and Claymation became popular.
Even though the later '60s weren't as truly golden as previously, remember that this was when the concept of TV cartoons was still fresh and new (and also when Hanna-Barbera truly knew what they were doing, including the first Scooby-Doo series). Still, I'd peg 1966 as the end of the Golden Age, thanks to Disney's Death, the nosedive quality of Looney Tunes past the point of no return by then, and the cancellation of The Flinstones
Great assessment. I agree 100%.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: Wobo on 04/23/18 at 3:33 pm
Yeah probably so, after theatrical animation died in the 60s
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: naf140230 on 04/28/18 at 11:05 am
Do you believe that the 1970s was the "dark age" of American animation?
I do not believe there was ever a dark age of animation. During the 1970s, the best cartoons came from Hanna-Barbera, which was the number 1 TV cartoon studio, and Filmation, which was the number 2.
Subject: Re: Was the 1970s the worst decade for American animation?
Written By: TheReignMan99 on 04/28/18 at 12:30 pm
I do not believe there was ever a dark age of animation. During the 1970s, the best cartoons came from Hanna-Barbera, which was the number 1 TV cartoon studio, and Filmation, which was the number 2.
Uh, I disagree.
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