Although the Disco era was different enough from what came before it and made the '70s their own identity around 1975/76, did it suddenly make the '60s (or for that matter, anything older than that) uncool and irrelevant?

Based on all I've observed, articles/research I've done, or anyone I may have talked to about it, all seem kinda split and wishy washy on the issue. Most people say something a little different on it. For instance, was it "dorky" or "passe" to like The Beatles and Motown songs in 1977 or 1979, etc?

It seems like it wasn't until c. 1982 with the emergence of MTV and the mainstream-ization of new wave that the 60s/70s kinda collectively became backlashed (the '70s for being cheesy in a recent way, and the '60s for merely being "old" and just so different - which it was, considering so much changed in 15 or 20 years by that time).

The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Janis Joplin, the Doors, Jimmi Hendrix, CSN&Y, and the Grateful Dead have always been lionized and the Disco has always been demonized.  Even good Disco didn't get any cred for the critics. 

When you talk about the "'60s" or "the sixties," you have to parse the pop cultural/countercultural meanings from the literal numeric decade called the 1960s.  1973 was much more "sixties" than 1963.  People often argue over when the sixties ended.  I say the 1960s ended 12/31/69, however "the sixties" didn't really "end" until the '80s.  I put the cultural end of "the sixties" at two events.  The assassination of John Lennon and the inauguration of Ronald Reagan.  That was the 1-2 punch in a six-week time period.  There were still "hippies" in 1980, but we thought they were passe.  However, the "hippie" look and lifestyle has persisted.  There now teens born in the 1990s growing their  hair long, wearing beads and tie-dyes, and listening to Deadhead music.  Same goes for "punk."  I see kids with orange Mohawks who weren't even born when I had an orange Mohawk, and when I had an orange Mohawk, some were calling the punk thing "passe."

What has not persisted is the Disco look.  If you stroll through the nearest college town, you might see a guy or a gal dressed like Saturday Night Fever, but you know it's kind of a jest.  This may be because there were "ideals" and "anti-ideals" in the hippie and punk movements.  The only idea in the Disco lifestyle was hedonism, and hedonism alone calls for ephemera. 

The '70s were still very much "the sixties," and a lot of the punk stuff was an angry reaction against the goofy fashion statement hippiedom had been reduced to.  The ideals failed.  The problem with punk was it couldn't get anywhere because people were so ugly to one another.  The politically conscientious punk bands, the Clash, Gang of Four, the Dead Kennedys, were in the minority.  Also, punk was never an attempt at a thorough counterculture, it was all sartorial shock, and "what's you're favorite band?"

The older hippies, like my dad, got into idealism as espoused by Aldous Huxley, Buckminster Fuller, Allen Ginsberg, Baba Ram Das (aka Richard Alpert), John Lennon, etc. etc. etc.  However, when you went from Harvard grad students in 1964 to the 19-year-old burn-outs at Woodstock five years later, much of the cerebral element was gone.  Out went the Diggers and Stephen Gaskin, in marched Cheech & Chong!

As a child of hippies, I had exposure to both the "back to the land/mysticism" ideology of the hippies and the bikers, sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll" hedonism/criminality of the hippies. 

If I had my way in the '80s, I would have infused punk with more sociopolitical ideology, but that movement was stuck on a constant "f**k you" tape loop!
::)

But I digress.  The '60s did not become "uncool" in the Disco era.  Disco became uncool in "the sixties" era!

I'll throw in my two cents on this topic.  In the 70s, at least the beginning of the decade, it was pretty uncommon to "look back", ie. nostalgia just hadn't kicked in any major way.  It was sometime during the 70s that nostalgia first got really cool.  It probably started around the "American Graffiti" timeframe.  Nostalgia did hit the 70s with a BANG - but the interest then was all things 50s.  60s stuff was just "old stuff" then.  Not that there weren't gems that just wouldn't die - that's always been the case.  But 60s nostalgia wasn't mainstream by a long shot.

In college, around 78, I developed a sudden interest in old 60s Motown music, almost by accident.  I found I was able to fill my collection quickly by raiding the cheap 50 cent bin at the college used record store.  In order to locate a clean 3 album collection of the Supremes' greatest hits, for example, I was relegated to searching cut-out and clearance bins - if I could find anything at all.  Indeed, 60s nostalgia would have its day starting in the early 80s.  But not during the 70s.

It's pretty well documented that a surge in Beatles interest happened right after John Lennon was killed.  That may have provided an early spark that got the 60s nostalgia ball rolling in the early 80s.

To answer the original question, the 60s were already "uncool" by the time Disco emerged.  Not because of any specific quality of the 60s.  Just the fact that the 60s were so, well, "60s"  ;)

I'll throw in my two cents on this topic.  In the 70s, at least the beginning of the decade, it was pretty uncommon to "look back", ie. nostalgia just hadn't kicked in any major way.  It was sometime during the 70s that nostalgia first got really cool.  It probably started around the "American Graffiti" timeframe.  Nostalgia did hit the 70s with a BANG - but the interest then was all things 50s.  60s stuff was just "old stuff" then.  Not that there weren't gems that just wouldn't die - that's always been the case.  But 60s nostalgia wasn't mainstream by a long shot.

In college, around 78, I developed a sudden interest in old 60s Motown music, almost by accident.  I found I was able to fill my collection quickly by raiding the cheap 50 cent bin at the college used record store.  In order to locate a clean 3 album collection of the Supremes' greatest hits, for example, I was relegated to searching cut-out and clearance bins - if I could find anything at all.  Indeed, 60s nostalgia would have its day starting in the early 80s.  But not during the 70s.

It's pretty well documented that a surge in Beatles interest happened right after John Lennon was killed.  That may have provided an early spark that got the 60s nostalgia ball rolling in the early 80s.

To answer the original question, the 60s were already "uncool" by the time Disco emerged.  Not because of any specific quality of the 60s.  Just the fact that the 60s were so, well, "60s"   ;)


Thanks for the reply (:)) - that makes alot of sense. I've heard on alot of nostalgia sites and articles that the Vietnam War and alot of political issues going on in the early '70s is what made nostalgia popular since people looked back on the '50s as a "simpler time".

I've also heard (and agree with) the reason Soft Rock and singer songwriter-type music got so popular c. 1971 is because rock's first generation of teen fans were now firmly into adulthood (especially people around, say my dad's age - 32 in 1970) and wanted something more mellow for modern music.

Were there alot of open Beatles fans during the '70s? John's solo album in the mid '70s seemed to do pretty well and people seemed anxious for a Beatles reunion. I find it interesting that his death is cited as the "end of the '60s" by alot of people (which is why I wondered if some people blend the '60s and '70s together) when it might've been what started their revival.

I think some early '80s bands like Hall and Oates have a combined '50s rock/60s Motown influence to them, too.

The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Janis Joplin, the Doors, Jimmi Hendrix, CSN&Y, and the Grateful Dead have always been lionized and the Disco has always been demonized.  Even good Disco didn't get any cred for the critics. 

When you talk about the "'60s" or "the sixties," you have to parse the pop cultural/countercultural meanings from the literal numeric decade called the 1960s.  1973 was much more "sixties" than 1963.  People often argue over when the sixties ended.  I say the 1960s ended 12/31/69, however "the sixties" didn't really "end" until the '80s.  I put the cultural end of "the sixties" at two events.  The assassination of John Lennon and the inauguration of Ronald Reagan.  That was the 1-2 punch in a six-week time period.  There were still "hippies" in 1980, but we thought they were passe.  However, the "hippie" look and lifestyle has persisted.  There now teens born in the 1990s growing their  hair long, wearing beads and tie-dyes, and listening to Deadhead music.   Same goes for "punk."  I see kids with orange Mohawks who weren't even born when I had an orange Mohawk, and when I had an orange Mohawk, some were calling the punk thing "passe."

What has not persisted is the Disco look.  If you stroll through the nearest college town, you might see a guy or a gal dressed like Saturday Night Fever, but you know it's kind of a jest.  This may be because there were "ideals" and "anti-ideals" in the hippie and punk movements.  The only idea in the Disco lifestyle was hedonism, and hedonism alone calls for ephemera. 

The '70s were still very much "the sixties," and a lot of the punk stuff was an angry reaction against the goofy fashion statement hippiedom had been reduced to.  The ideals failed.  The problem with punk was it couldn't get anywhere because people were so ugly to one another.  The politically conscientious punk bands, the Clash, Gang of Four, the Dead Kennedys, were in the minority.  Also, punk was never an attempt at a thorough counterculture, it was all sartorial shock, and "what's you're favorite band?"

The older hippies, like my dad, got into idealism as espoused by Aldous Huxley, Buckminster Fuller, Allen Ginsberg, Baba Ram Das (aka Richard Alpert), John Lennon, etc. etc. etc.  However, when you went from Harvard grad students in 1964 to the 19-year-old burn-outs at Woodstock five years later, much of the cerebral element was gone.  Out went the Diggers and Stephen Gaskin, in marched Cheech & Chong!

As a child of hippies, I had exposure to both the "back to the land/mysticism" ideology of the hippies and the bikers, sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll" hedonism/criminality of the hippies. 

If I had my way in the '80s, I would have infused punk with more sociopolitical ideology, but that movement was stuck on a constant "f**k you" tape loop!
::)

But I digress.  The '60s did not become "uncool" in the Disco era.  Disco became uncool in "the sixties" era!


You're a smart guy, Max! :)

Now that I think about it, the very early '80s almost seemed more "sixties" than, say 1976 did! Almost as if Disco was like an air freshner that simply masked the odor of the Sixties before it evaporated around 1980, whereas the odor itself didn't fully change to the Eighties until c. late 1982. ;D

Yeah, I'm not really an expert on Punk Rock, but from what I know, it was always intended as being pretty noncommercial. I always thought the old-school Punk was mostly about political or social statements, though (i.e. being stuck with a cr*ppy job or living situation), so I had no idea it was the minority. What would you say most of the bands were really about?

You're a smart guy, Max! :)

Now that I think about it, the very early '80s almost seemed more "sixties" than, say 1976 did! Almost as if Disco was like an air freshner that simply masked the odor of the Sixties before it evaporated around 1980, whereas the odor itself didn't fully change to the Eighties until c. late 1982. ;D

Yeah, I'm not really an expert on Punk Rock, but from what I know, it was always intended as being pretty noncommercial. I always thought the old-school Punk was mostly about political or social statements, though (i.e. being stuck with a cr*ppy job or living situation), so I had no idea it was the minority. What would you say most of the bands were really about?


Most punk was and is quasi-political.  However, bands like the ones I mentioned--The Clash, Gang of Four, Dead Kennedys*--were in the minority for making intelligent political statements.  So many of average punk bands were just rage and nihilism.  The statements went nowhere.  "School sucks, work sucks, the government sucks, war sucks, fyke you mom & dad, fyke you Mr. Weatherbee...."  The band Black Flag was a prime example (old school punks would rip me a new one for saying so).
There was one notable exception for me, Suicidal Tendancies' "Institutionalized."  There was a stint in the '80s when I lived through the song's lyrics!  The song also bears a striking resemblance to an early Frank Zappa song "Help, I'm a Rock!" (not to be confused with Simon & Garfunkel's "I Am a Rock").  I'm pretty certain ST was oblvious to what FZ had done back in '65, and FZ was not Mr. Proto-punk!
;D

AmericanGirl is correct about the runaway success of '50s nostalgia in the '70s.  "American Graffitti" and then the "Happy Days" TV series were eagerly consumed.  "Happy Days" was actually inspired by "American Graffitti."  Neither HD or AG was a terribly realistic portrayal of the era, but that's not what we want from nostalgia.  The play "Grease" was along the same lines.  The movie, sorry, don't bother.  That "Grease" movie was to the '50s what "Hogan's Heroes" was to WWII!

I gather AmericanGirl was a teen and a college student in the '70s, whereas I was just a little kid.  Thus, she was actually a pop culture consumer in the '70s.  I was not.  I have two sisters, the one who is a year older than I was into the Bee-Gees and Leif Garrett.  The one who is six years older than I was one of the last "flower children" and held hippie music dear.  She also liked '70s hard rock.  Remember Led Zeppelin were still together and recording through most of the '70s.  John Bonham didn't drink himself to death until 1980.  So my sister loved Led Zep, still does.  I hated 'em! Still do!

My father was a big Beatles fan.  He was also into Frank Zappa's early period (which I cannot recommend highly enough).  He also loved Donovan, Siomon & Garfunke, Incredible String Bandl, and some of the folkier, jug band stuff.  Then in the '70s he lost interest in pop and went back to listening to classical music and playing classical Spanish guitar.  My mom remained a rock fan and got into Bob Seger, Deep Purple, Heart, and stuff my dad thought was total crap--and he happened to be right!

So I heard all kinds of music as a child in the '70s.  The music that would become "my" music was just being born in Akron, Ohio!  Devo!  New Wave.  It had nothing to do with which music was "better" than the other kind.  It had to do with what was new and different.  I didn't want to listen to my parents' music or my sisters' music.  I started hearing that synth sound around puberty, Human League, Soft Cell, A Flock of Seagulls, Duran Duran, the Fixx, Devo, and later Depeche Mode.  I didn't want the '60s or the '70s.  It was very important to me to differentiate myself.  My grandparents' generation hated that raunchy rock 'n' roll!  Then Bob Dylan started moaning about how synth pop had "the soul of a robot."  But I liked it cold, polished, and mechanical.  The clean and sleek sound of a record like the Human League's "Dare" was a refreshing departure from Janis Joplin.  People said, "Yeah, but Joplin and Hendrix had soul, man, what you're listening to is friggin' electronic bubble gum!"  Then I was thinking, wait a minute....who are you to be the arbiter of what music has soul and what does not?  That was the first time I questioned an assumption about music, and the primal reason my favorite composer today is John Cage.  Cage questioned ALL asssumptions about music!  I just wished I discovered Cage in my teens. That woulda driven my mother up the wall!  She didn't like Depeche Mode, but she hates John Cage and still tells me so!
;D

*speaking of DK's, must-have listening, Jello Biafra's latest spoken word release, "In the Grip of Official Treason."

I gather AmericanGirl was a teen and a college student in the '70s...


You are one smart guy, Max!  ;)

Kidding aside, I was born in 1960.  *GASP* - I admitted that!  :o  So indeed, the 70s was my "most influential" music decade.

I appreciate your candor about how you wanted to listen to your own music, not your sisters' or parents' music.  I can definitely understand that, as my family went through the same kind of dynamics.

No shame in being partial to New Wave, etc. - good stuff!

I've always been a little iffy on where to draw the line exactly, but my most influential music is about 1978-1994. What I listened to when I was, like 4-12 is what I'll probably like the most forever.

Although I'm a casual fan of 1995-2001 and an occasional liker of stuff since 2002.


I do often get the impression that the appeal for '80s music (especially new wave - no matter how mainstream it became, it had that "fringey"/underground/oddball quality to it too) was because it was so different from what was popular in the 1964-1975 mainstream classic rock era. So I can see where you guys are coming from on that. ;)

There was quite a scene for "underground" music 1964--1975.  You've got proto-punk, Glam, early electronic music, trippy psychedelic jazz/fusion. On the "classical" side, you had a very fertile period for avant-garde composers, such as Robert Ashley, Gordon Mumma, David Tudor, Larry Austin, Pauline Oliveros, Harry Partch..the audiecence for this stuff will always be limited I'm afraid!  As Frank Zappa put it,
"No commercial potential"

http://tibolano.hautetfort.com/images/frank_zappa-freak_out-frontal.2.jpg

I always thought Disco was Uncool in the Disco era  :)

Wait...when were the 60s cool? 

AmericanGirl is correct about the runaway success of '50s nostalgia in the '70s.  "American Graffitti" and then the "Happy Days" TV series were eagerly consumed.  "Happy Days" was actually inspired by "American Graffitti." 


This is one of the biggest misconceptions from the 70's. Happy Days started as a pilot called
"New Family In Town" in 1971. this show had the same characters, Richie, Howard, Marion, Potsie
with the same actors, Ron Howard, Marion Ross and Anson Williams, Howard Cunningham was played
by Harold Gould. The show wasn't picked up for a regular sitcom, instead they used it as a segment
for the show "Love American Style" and called it "Love And The Happy Days" in 1972.

Granted, after the success of American Graffiti in 1972 ABC, trying to cash in on the 50's nostalgia even
though American Graffiti was set in 1962, decided to make Happy Days its own sitcom.

Wait...when were the 60s cool? 


It sounds like you were to young or if not, you must have been in a coma back then. Every year in that decade was cool, every year had something to re-define the term "cool" right up until the early 70's, then the term "cool" was mis-interperted and was applied to the Disco era which everyone who lived in the 60's knows that Disco was the furthest thing from being cool...it was a plain out corny era not even close to being cool, and sorry you guys who didn't know any better. Then the 80's came slapped some sense into you again and the term cool found it's proper place amongst the "New Wave" era.

Well...All I know is that, as a kid in the late 1970's (I was born in 1972), I really loved all the music of the 1970's. That being said, I also loved the 1960's music, especially the late '60s. I feel I have to tell everyone that until 1980, I still thought The Beatles were together and, infact, I just never really thought about which music came from which time frame...My Mother simply played her records which included everything from The Beatles and Elvis Presely to The Ramones and Led Zeppelin to Fleetwood Mac (mid to late 1970's) and Donna Summer. There was really no distinction between decades, so I grew up never knowing which music was 'old' and which music was 'new'. When I became a teenager in the 1980's I loved the resurgance of hard and soft rock as well as the new wave music from the early 80's up to the mid to late 80's. It was only at this point that I began to term music as 'old', but I never stopped listening to a mix of music. Even today I listen to music from all decades, yes, even from the early 20th Century. There are times when I want a hit of 'hippie' tunes, or a heavy dose of 70's rock and/or disco (more so with the 1970's music...Just cant get enough of that decade) and I also like to get into the early to mid 1980's hits from time to time.

So, for me, insofar as music goes, the 1960's were apart of my 1970's life. Infact, Id go so far as to say even the 1950's and 1960's films which were shown on TV played a big part in my childhood of the late 1970's.

Id also like to point out that the 1960's nostalgia actually began in 1979 with the release of the movie 'Hair'. The stage plays of the late 1960's became films, such as jesus Christ Superstar. Also, one of my favorite 1960's albums became one of my all time favorite weird films, Tommy.





AN

Well...All I know is that, as a kid in the late 1970's (I was born in 1972), I really loved all the music of the 1970's. That being said, I also loved the 1960's music, especially the late '60s. I feel I have to tell everyone that until 1980, I still thought The Beatles were together and, infact, I just never really thought about which music came from which time frame...My Mother simply played her records which included everything from The Beatles and Elvis Presely to The Ramones and Led Zeppelin to Fleetwood Mac (mid to late 1970's) and Donna Summer. There was really no distinction between decades, so I grew up never knowing which music was 'old' and which music was 'new'. When I became a teenager in the 1980's I loved the resurgance of hard and soft rock as well as the new wave music from the early 80's up to the mid to late 80's. It was only at this point that I began to term music as 'old', but I never stopped listening to a mix of music. Even today I listen to music from all decades, yes, even from the early 20th Century. There are times when I want a hit of 'hippie' tunes, or a heavy dose of 70's rock and/or disco (more so with the 1970's music...Just cant get enough of that decade) and I also like to get into the early to mid 1980's hits from time to time.

So, for me, insofar as music goes, the 1960's were apart of my 1970's life. Infact, Id go so far as to say even the 1950's and 1960's films which were shown on TV played a big part in my childhood of the late 1970's.

Id also like to point out that the 1960's nostalgia actually began in 1979 with the release of the movie 'Hair'. The stage plays of the late 1960's became films, such as jesus Christ Superstar. Also, one of my favorite 1960's albums became one of my all time favorite weird films, Tommy.





AN


Your mom was cool to give you all the music and you appreciated it too...that's cool.

This is one of the biggest misconceptions from the 70's. Happy Days started as a pilot called
"New Family In Town" in 1971. this show had the same characters, Richie, Howard, Marion, Potsie
with the same actors, Ron Howard, Marion Ross and Anson Williams, Howard Cunningham was played
by Harold Gould. The show wasn't picked up for a regular sitcom, instead they used it as a segment
for the show "Love American Style" and called it "Love And The Happy Days" in 1972.

Granted, after the success of American Graffiti in 1972 ABC, trying to cash in on the 50's nostalgia even
though American Graffiti was set in 1962, decided to make Happy Days its own sitcom.

Thanks for the info, Loki!

It sounds like you were to young or if not, you must have been in a coma back then. Every year in that decade was cool, every year had something to re-define the term "cool" right up until the early 70's, then the term "cool" was mis-interperted and was applied to the Disco era which everyone who lived in the 60's knows that Disco was the furthest thing from being cool...it was a plain out corny era not even close to being cool, and sorry you guys who didn't know any better. Then the 80's came slapped some sense into you again and the term cool found it's proper place amongst the "New Wave" era.

Disco music was part of the evolution of pop music.  All dance pop over the past 25 years owes something to Disco.  The Disco fashions looked every bit as dumb as today's pop fashions are going to look in three decades!

Disco music was part of the evolution of pop music.  All dance pop over the past 25 years owes something to Disco.  The Disco fashions looked every bit as dumb as today's pop fashions are going to look in three decades!


I'd give all the credit to the Bee Gees for that.