this was in the biography section for Esther Rolle on IMDB

"Still, Esther left the show for one season when she was unhappy about the negative role model perpetuated by Jimmie Walker's jive-talking J.J. character, but later returned after the producers assured her that more responsibility would be taken."

That's interesting Snoz, thank you for the info.

JJ was a buffoon. He acted like an idiot. Everytime I watch an episode I think this is the image the rest of the world is getting of black people. And I don't like people looking at a character like JJ and thinking that its a true portrayal.


I guess it ain't easy being black. You've got to always worry about the image you portray to the rest of the world.  ::)
(And that's assuming the rest of the world even bought and show that television show anyway)

If that's true then what about all the white actors and actresses acting foolish? Does Michael Richards (Kramer) on Seinfeld make all whites look bad? That's one example but we could all list many, many more.

'J.J.' Evans was funny and very human. If the character offended some people then they probably need to lighten up. He's the only reason I'd watch the show today and if the rest of the cast are still getting residual payments for reruns of the show then they should rethink how they felt 30 years ago...

I can see Amos' and Rolles points but at the end of the day it was a sitcom. It's not like it was "Roots". Look at the 3 Stooges, Jerry Lewis and even Chrissy Snow from Three's Company! You could class them as baffoons! Plus the other characters more than made up for JJ's behaviour. If anything Good Times helped with integration and acceptance, but in a fun way.

If that's true then what about all the white actors and actresses acting foolish? Does Michael Richards (Kramer) on Seinfeld make all whites look bad? That's one example but we could all list many, many more.



The difference is the deck isn't stacked against whites to begin with. If we all started on an even playing field then no problem but the truth of the matter is we don't and in our society if you are not a person of color you have a certain advantage over the rest of us. Therefore, when someone like Kramer is shown on TV it is just comedy there are no preconceived ideas about the race so there is nothing to uphold. However,the black race had to work and fight hard to get where we are today yet people still have preconceived ideas. Julia was a ground breaking show because it showed Diahann Carrol as a single mother (widowed by Viet Nam) she had a career and still had to face adversity everyday. She upheld the race. 

It took what 15 -20 years for another good 1/2hour  family series to show blacks in a positive light. I am talking about Cosby and the buzz was about middle class blacks, as if it was rare. Just because it hasn't been seen too often on TV doesn't make it a phenomenon. There have been shows done about every class of whites with little fanfare but when blacks are shown "against type" it becomes huge debate.

And I am not against Good Times as a whole. I know that a large percent of black people have to live in the ghetto I think the show itself did some good it brought forth good issues, and discussions. IT is the way JJ was portrayed that I am against that and the fact that he has been practically made an ICONIC figure-head for the series.  We talk about Good Times and everyone mentions JJ. They never talk about the issues.


The same goes for Asians, Hispanics and all the other races.  Look at the lull in Hispanic programming between Chico and the Man (1974) and The George Lopez Show (2002) I bet if we started a discussion about "a.k.a. Pablo" starring Paul Rodriguez (1984) people would have a lot to say too.


Okay  I stepping off the soap box for now....

The difference is the deck isn't stacked against whites to begin with. If we all started on an even playing field then no problem but the truth of the matter is we don't and in our society if you are not a person of color you have a certain advantage over the rest of us.


Im a person of colour...Im white (well, slightly pinkish, brown in Summer). Ive never understood the issue of race. To me the colour of a persons skin has never been an issue. I didnt even realise that people of a different colour to me were seen as a different 'race' to me until I was 12. I guess living in Australia where race isnt an issue (or at least wasnt until last December) helped me.

I watched JJ on Good Times, and I think he MADE the show what it was. I never once, as a child watching them for the first time, thought that all black people acted like that, mainly because I didnt really realise that the people on the TV were any different to me. It was a funny show, JJ was hilarious. After I was 12 and saw the show again, I never once thought that all black people acted like JJ. He was a character, and over animated comic representation of a tall and thin man living in a flat somewhere in America. He wasnt real, and any moron wouldve, or shouldve known that.

If I wanted a REAL representation of black issues Id have watched the news or a more serious TV show. Good Times was entertainment. It was fun, and I dont think JJ was ever meant to be taken as a serious representation of a black man in the 1970's, although, I do think he was copied a LOT after the show had aired.

Plus, I think if JJ was/is seen as a TRUE representation of a black man, then its a hell of a lot better than the representation many 'white' people and people who are not from the USA have of black men these days, no matter how false this relresentation is. Here in Australia, when you think of black culture, you either think of the days of slavery, the freedom movement and Martin Luther King, and gang bangers who commit drive-by's and rob convienience stores and sell drugs.

Now, I KNOW this representation is false. But most people here are still in the Boyz N The Hood mentallity when it comes to black people. Sad, but true.

Personally, to me, JJ is the better role model and the better way of thinking about how black people really are mainly because, although he is over animated and over acted, at least he has a heart.


PERSONALLY, I hate all things that are used to divide people, and unfortunately race is one of those things used to keep us divided, religion is another.


Just my thoughts. You can say Im talking nonsence and dont know what Im on about because Ive not lived with racism and nor have I lived in the USA...Either way, Ive had my say.








AN

Well said. If you want true bad representation of a black man, please refer to the rap artists of today with their pimp gangsta "you're nothin' without your bling bling" attitude.

Has there been any news on what happened to the actors who played Thelma, Michael and Willona?

Hey AN-

When I was speaking of the racial divide I was speaking solely about America. I have never been to Australia so I don't know much about Australian Diversity. Hell if I were to believe what I saw portrayed of Australia I would think that the only blacks there are Aborigines but I know better than that.

I also recognize white  or pink as a color but, again in the states, when we say person of color we are making a general reference to any person who belongs to a non-white race.

I still stand by my opinion, and it is only my opinion that the character of JJ was an idiot. Absent JJ Good Times would have been a great show and I was happy when I watched the TV Land special about Good Times because that is where I learned that both John Amos (James Evans SR.) and Esther Rolle (Florida Evans) shared my opinion.  If the two senior actors feel that way then there must some merit to my argument.....even though it is only my opinion.

Race is a touchy issue in the US but I can only speak for myself based on my experiences and observations. I grew up on Air Force Bases and to the best of knowledge race was never an issue until my father retired and we moved from base to civilization, I was 12.
To my parents credit (maybe because I wasn't prepared for what happened to me after we left the base) I didn't know I was black and I didn't know what it meant to be black in the United States of America. Tiger Woods once referred to himself as CAUBLANASIAN and I too could lay that claim, for I have black, white, native american, south american, and chinese in my heritage. However, when people look at me black it what they see and black is what identify most with. But when I was younger I didn't know, I just people came in all colors like crayons in a crayola box.

When I was 12 we moved to a predominatley white town, I was at school a week before a kid on the playground yelled at me ****** GO HOME.  I didn't know what a ****** was, again my parents kept me sheltered, but it sounded bad and it hurt like hell. For that school no one talked to me, no one played with me, I had no friends....oh yeah it was 1981. We should have been a little more progressive by then but we're not.

I get followed in stores by clerks who want to make sure I don't steal, I get my id scrutinized when I pay by check or credit card. I do not speak with a "black accent" so I have seen the reaction of some people when I call them for an appointment and then they see me later. I actually had a one woman do a double take and then tell me "You didn't sound black on the phone." what was I supposed to say to that? THank  you?

Blacks have made great strides, we have come a long way since the civil rights movement but there is still so far to go. 

And by the way, I agree with the other statement I read about rappers and bling (they didn't mention bitches and hos but I hate that too.) and the debate about the casual use of the N word could take days. I don't think anyone not even black rappers, comics, or black men talking to their friends should ever use the word but I can't change that.  Although I think that in "Bring the Pain"Chris Rock gives the best dissertation on the difference between black people and ******s I ever heard.

Sorry this is longer than I planned but I guess it all still hurts so much. Like Dr Kings famous line state I would like to be judged by the content of my character rather than the color of my skin....right now I am judged by both.

Q

"There is not a single white guy in here that would trade places with me, and I'm rich!"
                                                                                                                        ~Chris Rock, (Bigger and Blacker)

As said before, the episode where John Amos' character dies was distressing and pretty disturbing. I think it was made worse because we knew the characters so well, and Florida was kind of like a family member, and to see her in such distress was disturbing for anyone, especially for a kid of 6 or 7.
I totally agree, when he died I was soo upset, it got all over me






AN
:\'(

snozberries...

I am sorry to hear of your experiences. To me, racism is a foreign concept. Ive never had any experience with it, dont understand it, dont want to understand it, and I hate it.

While I still stand by what I said about JJ, I can see your point. I may not agree with you, but I do understand your point.






AN

my favorite episode had to be the one where michael joins the warlords!!the scene i liked the most was when florida went to get michael at the gang hangout.....one of the warlords told florida "lady i said give me that ring!" and michael was being held by the other guys, but he got loose and jumped on the leader and tackled him to the floor...i get chills whenever i see that scene!!

snozberries...



While I still stand by what I said about JJ, I can see your point. I may not agree with you, but I do understand your point.






AN


I can respect that thanks.

And I can give you your right to stand by JJ but I will never change my opinion.
                                                              "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."   
                                                                                                                                                              ~Dr Martin Luther King Jr

I guess it ain't easy being black. You've got to always worry about the image you portray to the rest of the world.  ::)
(And that's assuming the rest of the world even bought and show that television show anyway)

If that's true then what about all the white actors and actresses acting foolish? Does Michael Richards (Kramer) on Seinfeld make all whites look bad? That's one example but we could all list many, many more.

'J.J.' Evans was funny and very human. If the character offended some people then they probably need to lighten up. He's the only reason I'd watch the show today and if the rest of the cast are still getting residual payments for reruns of the show then they should rethink how they felt 30 years ago...




To compare the two is crazy. Did Kramer represent a stereotype? No, he was just sing as an absurd individual and not a total representative of an entire group. To say to others that were offended by the stereotype "hey lighten up" when in all likelihood, you haven't experienced the offense is indeed absurd.