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Subject: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80's?
I know this is sort of a weird question. But to me the '80's always seem like this cheery and happy decade. But right before it was obviously the '70's, and for whatever reason I've always associated darkness, meaness and high violence with the '70's. Was it because of Vietnam? I don't know. I don't know why, things are usually believed to get worse in the world, but to me the 1970's have this bizzarely dark appeal to me. I wasn't really around then, I was born in the late '70's, so for anyone that really grew up then, or was older could tell me what it was like I would appreciate it.
And am I the only one that has felt this way? '80's==Cheery, Happy and all around goodness. '70's==Violence, Darkness, Meaness, and all around hard gritty appeal. I think it's one reason the '70's still hold a high appeal to the kids around now, it has a dark streak to it. The '80's don't have that darkness, and probably ain't as cool because of that.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
I don't think it was darker and meaner, just taken a little more seriously than the '80s.
There was certainly a greater division of culture between the older and the younger crowd, the ww II crowd was still running most things, that may contribute to your impression as well.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
To the contrary, the 70s, to me, were much more we oriented where the 80s were the me generation.Maybe its all the social issues that were going on (Nam, racial tensions in the earlier part of the decade, gas warsm etc.) that skewes your vision. But I don't equate "darkness" to the 70s at all. I guess its a personal thing having to do with each individuals experiences.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
I think Jeff is onto something.
There was a lot more division in the 70s. The Summer of Love was a fading memory. The 70s saw a sour end to a bitter war, and America lost the first war in its history. The decade was cursed with the most traumatic political scandal in its history and witnessed the first president to resign in disgrace. Despite their personal qualities, the other presidents in the decade stumbled more often than not. America was ill-served by its leadership the entire decade.
And the decade ended with hostages held in Iran and a super-power helpless to free them. Yeah, it was a dark and bitter decade in many ways.
Much more so than the 80s. However much one may disagree with the politics of Ronald Reagan, he was a hell of a tonic.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Good reply Steve,
Come to think of it you are correct on the political front. Nixon was a disgrace, Ford was almost a joke (and of of course not voted in, he was speaker of the house and 3rd in line for presidency) And Carter was a shambles, nobel laureatte today, ineffective leader at the time. Gawd, remember the oil crisis and the sky high interest rates?
We were very deep in the cold war and the mid east peace process that had been making ground started to collapse.
80's were a bit brighter.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Yeah, Race, and I remember the "malaise" speech of Carter's, too. He's had a great post-presidential career, but he was NOT an inspiring leader.
Can you imagine what would have happened if Iran-Contra had happened during Nixon's administation? We'd still be washing the blood off the capitol steps.
The 80s were a feel good decade. The 70s were something else.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
I think this depends on your age at the time. The things I remember about the seventies are Viet Nam, the gas crisis, various South American civil wars, high inflation and unemployment, the SLA, "I am not a crook!"... it wasn't a cheery decade. The decade of the eighties had it's problems, but I do remember it as a more fun, feel good decade than the seventies.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
In my opinion and in my experience, the mid-late 1970's were begining to lighten-up. Well, with Disco dominating the scene and all... ;) They road was being paved for the 1980's. :D
*Note - That kind of "paving" didn't happen at the end of the 80's for the 90's. I think it was because the 80's were so awesome, no one wanted to let them go.
Dissaster struck and the 80's were done by 1993 and all but a distant memory by '95.
That kind of "paving" didn't happen at the end of the 90's for the 2000's either. I think it's because people got stuck in the 90's rut.
That's just the way I like to view it all, of course. ;D
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Definatley the later '70s did lighten up but I disagree with you on the 80s-90s transition. I dropped the 80s like a hot toxic rock in winter '89-90.
Quoting:
In my opinion and in my experience, the mid-late 1970's were begining to lighten-up. Well, with Disco dominating the scene and all... ;) They road was being paved for the 1980's. :D
*Note - That kind of "paving" didn't happen at the end of the 80's for the 90's. I think it was because the 80's were so awesome, no one wanted to let them go.
Dissaster struck and the 80's were done by 1993 and all but a distant memory by '95.
That kind of "paving" didn't happen at the end of the 90's for the 2000's either. I think it's because people got stuck in the 90's rut.
That's just the way I like to view it all, of course. ;D
End Quote
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Nah, I disagree. I'll probably lose my ACLU card for saying this, but things didn't change until Reagan was elected. Sorry Jimmy, I voted for you, but it's true... :-[
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Hey Steve, you sound like you were mature (meaning old enough to remember) during the Reagan years, do you think his adminstration (I say admin, I don't recall Reagan as a "hands on" president) did some good for us or was it time for things to turn around anyways?
I say turn around anyway beacuse I don't give a lot of credit to the Clinton Admin (i voted for him twice) for the strong economincal growth, nor Bush Jr. for the times were in now.
I give a lot of the success to technology and the downturn to a "sober up, you were all drunk with success and to giddy to make good investments" situations.
Quoting:
Nah, I disagree. I'll probably lose my ACLU card for saying this, but things didn't change until Reagan was elected. Sorry Jimmy, I voted for you, but it's true... :-[End Quote
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Quoting:
I dropped the 80s like a hot toxic rock in winter '89-90.
End Quote
:o
Why?
As for my observations above - That was my experience, anyway.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Hairspray- I hear ya and I ain't arguing with ya (how can you argue with someone's memories, anyway?) :D
Race I'm old enough to have voted, for the first time, for Jimmy Carter. Did you know that Ted Koppel's NightLine started with the Iranian hostage crisis? I think the country went for Carter because he was clean and pious and not a Republican.
I'm not qualified to judge Reagan. Don't know enough about it. What I remember is that everyone seemed to be more... "up" after Reagan was elected. Carter was a little too pious, a little too critical. Reagan was great for excentuating what was good about the country. Carter may have been more qualified, but Reagan was what we needed. You have to give him credit for fostering a climate where Americans felt good about themselves... for the first time in over a decade.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Quoting:
Hairspray- I hear ya and I ain't arguing with ya (how can you argue with someone's memories, anyway?) :D
Race I'm old enough to have voted, for the first time, for Jimmy Carter. Did you know that Ted Koppel's NightLine started with the Iranian hostage crisis? I think the country went for Carter because he was clean and pious and not a Republican.
I'm not qualified to judge Reagan. Don't know enough about it. What I remember is that everyone seemed to be more... "up" after Reagan was elected. Carter was a little too pious, a little too critical. Reagan was great for excentuating what was good about the country. Carter may have been more qualified, but Reagan was what we needed. You have to give him credit for fostering a climate where Americans felt good about themselves... for the first time in over a decade.
End Quote
Oh, no! :o
I didn't mean for you to think I was thinking you were debating me or I was debating you or arguing or.... ;)
I guess I should always remember to place that happy face/smilie emoticon. ;)
Anyway, I was actually interested in your opinion as to why you "dropped the 80s like a hot toxic rock." :)
So.....
Why? :o
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Quoting:
Oh, no! :o
I didn't mean for you to think I was thinking you were debating me or I was debating you or arguing or.... ;)
I guess I should always remember to place that happy face/smilie emoticon. ;)
Anyway, I was actually interested in your opinion as to why you "dropped the 80s like a hot toxic rock." :)
So.....
Why? :o
End Quote
That was Race who did the dropping, Hairspray. ;)
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Quoting:
That was Race who did the dropping, Hairspray. ;)
End Quote
Ahhhhh!!! :o :o :o
I definitely need some coffee. ;D Sorry for the mix-up.
So....
Race,
What's the story? ;)
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
No offence Hairspray but the '80s weren't for everyone. I graduated HS in '84 so I lived through okay, I just "fit" better in the '90s. Big hair and leather didn't do me well and I identified better with the more socailally conscieance awareness of grunge music and comfortable clothing. I'm a Seattle boy so levis and flannel fit me well. There was some great stuff in the '80s, but I think I have higher reguard for the '90s cause I just "hit my stride" about the time they started. Also, the fall of the Berlin Wall, the end of Apartheid, the collapse of the Soveit Union, all happened during that era and I relised for the 1st time in my life that things can change for the better. That and maybe I take life too seriously. ;)
Quoting:
Ahhhhh!!! :o :o :o
I definitely need some coffee. ;D Sorry for the mix-up.
So....
Race,
What's the story? ;)
End Quote
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Thanks for the reply Steve (if that is your real name) ;D I remeber the Iran Contra thing as daily hostage update with Ted, that was quite a trying time for Carter and the country (hey, remember the series Carter Country?) I also heard rumor that Reagan people negotiated for a later release of the hostages so it didn't happen before the election, but I choose not to believe it. Your correct that Reagan was the "Great Comminicator" and I would have never admitted this 10 years ago but we need to thank him for the collapse of the Soviet Union. There difinatlely was a more positive light in the '80s when he took office, Hope and the expectation of success is a great thing to share.
Quoting:
Hairspray- I hear ya and I ain't arguing with ya (how can you argue with someone's memories, anyway?) :D
Race I'm old enough to have voted, for the first time, for Jimmy Carter. Did you know that Ted Koppel's NightLine started with the Iranian hostage crisis? I think the country went for Carter because he was clean and pious and not a Republican.
I'm not qualified to judge Reagan. Don't know enough about it. What I remember is that everyone seemed to be more... "up" after Reagan was elected. Carter was a little too pious, a little too critical. Reagan was great for excentuating what was good about the country. Carter may have been more qualified, but Reagan was what we needed. You have to give him credit for fostering a climate where Americans felt good about themselves... for the first time in over a decade.
End Quote
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Quoting:
No offence HairsprayEnd Quote
None taken.
I respect your opinion. I certainly understand how people experienced different decades.... differently.
Many good things happened in the 90's historically and environmentally. That aspect of the 90's I do like and fully recognize. :)
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Quoting:
I also heard rumor that Reagan people negotiated for a later release of the hostages so it didn't happen before the election, but I choose not to believe it. Your correct that Reagan was the "Great Comminicator" and I would have never admitted this 10 years ago but we need to thank him for the collapse of the Soviet Union.
End Quote
I think it was more than a rumor, Race. By the time they got around to investigating it CIA chief William Casey was in the final stages of a terminal illness.
The incredible, and infuriating to some, thing about the Reagan administration was it's "teflon-ness". If any previous adminstration had negotiated with a foreign government before they were in power, and a hostile government at that, they would have had to pay with political blood. If the Iran/Contra affair had occured during the Nixon, Ford, or Carter administration there would have been an impeachment trial and probable removal. Iran/Contra was bigger and more sinister than Watergate, or Lewinski, for that matter.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
I agree with all said about the 70's, fact wise. I do not however, share all the opinions about it being a dark decade. I personally had a blast in the 70's...from being 10 in 1970 and really was starting to get into music back then. The music was a great companion for me and all my friends throughout that decade. Politically a darker decade..Yes....musically and concerning My own personal experiences....No. The 80's were fun for me to but if I could go back and do either decade again I would definately choose to live through the 70's.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Yea Steve I was amazed about the Iran Contra thing. I was 19 at the time and I was thinking he's outa there. Amazing that he got through it all without a scratch and an Airport named after him. Truth is no president could have got away with it before or after, heck even Clinton may have fallen from that one.
......Then again, maybe not.
Quoting:
I think it was more than a rumor, Race. By the time they got around to investigating it CIA chief William Casey was in the final stages of a terminal illness.
The incredible, and infuriating to some, thing about the Reagan administration was it's "teflon-ness". If any previous adminstration had negotiated with a foreign government before they were in power, and a hostile government at that, they would have had to pay with political blood. If the Iran/Contra affair had occured during the Nixon, Ford, or Carter administration there would have been an impeachment trial and probable removal. Iran/Contra was bigger and more sinister than Watergate, or Lewinski, for that matter.
End Quote
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Quoting:
I agree with all said about the 70's, fact wise. I do not however, share all the opinions about it being a dark decade. I personally had a blast in the 70's...from being 10 in 1970 and really was starting to get into music back then. The music was a great companion for me and all my friends throughout that decade. Politically a darker decade..Yes....musically and concerning My own personal experiences....No. The 80's were fun for me to but if I could go back and do either decade again I would definately choose to live through the 70's.
End Quote
What he said!! Thanks R&RF, for saying what I was trying to say when this thread originated.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
I was 13 in 1970, so maybe that contributes to the different memories. By the time I was 16 I was becoming real worried about the draft and Watergate had blown a raw red wound into the guts of America. By 1973 I was paying a lot of attention to politics, and there was a lot of politics to pay attention to.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
I was 14 in 70 and the year they stopped the draft, my birthday was #4 out of 365 in the "pill selection" way of determining who would go first. I had some friends messed up because of 'Nam. I'm just saying that as a whole, I have more good memories than bad from then.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Hey Jeff, just wanted you to know that someone else out here shares the gut feeling you expressed when you started this thread. I've got it pretty solidly, and I was born in 60 so I saw both decades with eyes pretty much wide open. There was a definite "heaviness" to the 70s, as I experienced them, that suddenly lifted when the 80s began. Hard to put my finger on the precise nature of it though; and, unfortunately, anything specific that one cites could undoubtedly be "negated" by some counterexample. Nonetheless, on a gut level I'm in full agreement with you.
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
Quoting:
I know this is sort of a weird question. But to me the '80's always seem like this cheery and happy decade. But right before it was obviously the '70's, and for whatever reason I've always associated darkness, meaness and high violence with the '70's. Was it because of Vietnam? I don't know. I don't know why, things are usually believed to get worse in the world, but to me the 1970's have this bizzarely dark appeal to me. I wasn't really around then, I was born in the late '70's, so for anyone that really grew up then, or was older could tell me what it was like I would appreciate it.
And am I the only one that has felt this way? '80's==Cheery, Happy and all around goodness. '70's==Violence, Darkness, Meaness, and all around hard gritty appeal. I think it's one reason the '70's still hold a high appeal to the kids around now, it has a dark streak to it. The '80's don't have that darkness, and probably ain't as cool because of that.
End Quote
I don't think the 70's were "dark" at all. To me, the 80's seemed like a logical extension of Pop Culture from the 70's. One difference that I will note is that the 80's seemed to have shaken off most of 70's Pop Culture where the 70's still drew heavily from the 60's. I attribute that to Disco Music which, while wildly popular, did itself in by presenting an aire of exclusiveness. (Remember how only people who were deemed "cool" enough could ever get into a Disco?) Thus, those who were excluded fell back on a more 60's style Pop Culture. (e.g. Rock and Roll)
I don't remember the 80's having an aire of exclusiveness at all. It was like a decade long party to which everyone was invited.
MCSEGuy
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
I don't think the 70s were any darker than the 80s. The difference has to do with the attitudes. The early 70s you had the baby boomers effected most by what was going on in the world-namely the Viet Nam war. It was the baby boomers who were sent over there. They were angry and showed their anger. By the time the 80s came along, the majority of people were not involved in what was going on in the world. Under the Reagan administration, there were a lot of covert actitivies that most were not aware of. Everything was very hush, hush, and the people of the U.S. just went about its business as if nothing was going on. It was the "me" generation. As long as it doesn't effect them, it was ok. Most of us went through life with blinders on-me included. I served in the military under Reagan and thought that he was the greatest-until I found out a lot of his dirty dealings-Iran Contra to name one. It was under Reagan that the majority of Americans lost their jobs to cheap overseas labor with his trickle-down affect and the national debt going sky high. I think in some regards the 80s were darker than the 70s because in the 70s everything seemed to be out in the open. In the 80s, things were done in the shadows so the American people were not aware of what was going on.
Cat
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
This is a really interesting discussion. Good to hear other points of view. :)
MCSEGuy, your point about "exclusiveness" is right on the mark I'd say.
Before reading Jeff's original post, I was also unaware that the 70s "hold a high appeal" to today's kids. Is this really the case? As a college professor I come into daily contact with a lot of 18-22 yr olds, and they don't seem 70's-ish to me in any way. What clues am I missing?
Subject: Re: Were the '70's Darker and Meaner then the '80'
:-* OK, the '70s started out rough,but mellowed out later on. Things got pretty nice. The '80s started out calm, but got rougher later on. Both decades had their good and bad points.