Looks like it’s game-on over there again.

Get ready for both the Palestinians and the Israelis to ask the USA for financial support. My take? We’ve spent enough cash and credibility over there. Step aside and let these people duke it out and winner-takes-all.

Should be an overwhelming victory for Israel, which has a rather formidable armed forces with all the latest weaponry. 

But the US should stay out of it. Both physically and financially.

I really wonder what Hamas' thinks their endgame is. I mean they are poking a massive bear with a stick. Sure they caught Israel completely off guard but once they get their stuff together it'll be Pearl Harbor for Hamas. So what are they trying to achieve? They can't possible think to defeat Israel. ::)

I really wonder what Hamas' thinks their endgame is. I mean they are poking a massive bear with a stick. Sure they caught Israel completely off guard but once they get their stuff together it'll be Pearl Harbor for Hamas. So what are they trying to achieve? They can't possible think to defeat Israel. ::)


Common sense is not particularly common with Muslims in that part of the world. As an old meme used to say:

-Muslims with Christians: Some problems.

-Muslims with Jews: More problems.

-Muslims with other Muslims: HUGE problems.

At the end of the day so to speak, these most recent Muslim shenanigans will result in far more Muslim deaths than anybody else. They’re the Wile E. Coyote of the mayhem world.  ::)

Israel has regained control of all the border towns around Gaza.

I have mixed feeling about this. Yes, what Hamas did was just horrific and yes, Israel does have the right to defend themselves. But, on the other hand, Israel has been treating the Palestinians like sh!t for decades. Israel keeps taking over more and more of Palestinian territory not to mention some of the attacks that Israel has done in the last few months. The argument has always been that Israel has the right to exist. Well, so does Palestine. This is really a "both sides" situation.

And I don't trust Bibi Netanyahu. Why didn't they see this coming? Israel is supposed to have great defenses. Someone was asleep on the job and somehow I have the feeling it has to do with Netanyahu.

And we do know that Iran is involved. I have heard that they are worried about a treaty with Saudi Arabia and a few other Arab nations that will state that Israel has the right to exist but Iran doesn't want. They are trying to bring Israel (and of course the U.S. because the world knows that the U.S. is Israel's big brother) into a quagmire so that peace accords can't happen. With Israel fighting Hamas, they can't fight Iran.


FYI: I'm sure most here know that I am half Jewish.


Cat

I have mixed feeling about this. Yes, what Hamas did was just horrific and yes, Israel does have the right to defend themselves. But, on the other hand, Israel has been treating the Palestinians like sh!t for decades. Israel keeps taking over more and more of Palestinian territory not to mention some of the attacks that Israel has done in the last few months. The argument has always been that Israel has the right to exist. Well, so does Palestine. This is really a "both sides" situation.

And I don't trust Bibi Netanyahu. Why didn't they see this coming? Israel is supposed to have great defenses. Someone was asleep on the job and somehow I have the feeling it has to do with Netanyahu.

And we do know that Iran is involved. I have heard that they are worried about a treaty with Saudi Arabia and a few other Arab nations that will state that Israel has the right to exist but Iran doesn't want. They are trying to bring Israel (and of course the U.S. because the world knows that the U.S. is Israel's big brother) into a quagmire so that peace accords can't happen. With Israel fighting Hamas, they can't fight Iran.

FYI: I'm sure most here know that I am half Jewish.

Cat


It has been long past due for the US to wash its hands of the Middle East. There’s always blather about how “Israel is our ally”, but when we went to war in Iraq we had to ask them to stay out of it. Then of course you have the USS Liberty massacre, and the Jonathan Pollard incident. They’re not an ally. They’re a drain on the US treasury and a drain on US credibility. And the first time somebody criticizes them, they reach for the worn-out accusation that anybody who opposes Israel is “antisemitic”.  Hogwash.

I have no love for the other players there either. Bottom line… let ‘em all fight it out, winner take all. And if we have to deal with the winner, we’re fully capable of doing that in a most brutal manner.

Our meddling has done nothing but prolong this feud that the actors seem more than happy to keep going.

It has been long past due for the US to wash its hands of the Middle East. There’s always blather about how “Israel is our ally”, but when we went to war in Iraq we had to ask them to stay out of it. Then of course you have the USS Liberty massacre, and the Jonathan Pollard incident. They’re not an ally. They’re a drain on the US treasury and a drain on US credibility. And the first time somebody criticizes them, they reach for the worn-out accusation that anybody who opposes Israel is “antisemitic”.  Hogwash.

I have no love for the other players there either. Bottom line… let ‘em all fight it out, winner take all. And if we have to deal with the winner, we’re fully capable of doing that in a most brutal manner.

Our meddling has done nothing but prolong this feud that the actors seem more than happy to keep going.


I just don't understand why the U.S. thinks that Israel can do no wrong. That is the problem. The U.S. should have said to them years ago if they want our support, then they should act more humane towards the Palestinians.


Cat

Hamas is threatening to execute the Israeli civilization hostages. Meanwhile Israel cuts off utilities to Palestine.

In 2003 a young American woman named Rachel Corrie was protesting the demolition of Palestinian property when she was crushed to death by a bulldozer. Her family has tried to receive justice for her death, the Israeli army said it was an "accident" but Human Rights groups have contested that(I think they murdered her on purpose).

If the IDF was willing to do that to a harmless blond female American protester, imagine what they constantly do to Palestinians, that's bound to create a breeding ground for extremism and Hamas is more than happy to come in and proclaim themselves freedom fighters for the Palestinians.

I just don't understand why the U.S. thinks that Israel can do no wrong. That is the problem……..

Cat


It’s because (a) people confuse modern day Israel and it’s citizens with the biblical “Israelites”, and (b) the pro-Israel lobby showers politicians with money, and (c) people who oppose Israeli policy are summarily branded as Nazis and antisemites, a form of “cancelation” that’s 70+ years old.

It’s because (a) people confuse modern day Israel and it’s citizens with the biblical “Israelites”, and (b) the pro-Israel lobby showers politicians with money, and (c) people who oppose Israeli policy are summarily branded as Nazis and antisemites, a form of “cancelation” that’s 70+ years old.



My great-grandfather was very pro-Israel and donated "boocoo" bucks. When I was in Israel in the late'80s, I thought about him because I know one of the things he donated to was planting trees. But that was when Israel was in its infancy and it needed help.

But I do think that the U.S. needs to take a different stance on Israel.


Cat

I found out that I have cousins in Israel. They are distant cousins who we never met but still... (Descendants of my grandfather's sibs)


Cat

And I don't trust Bibi Netanyahu. Why didn't they see this coming? Israel is supposed to have great defenses. Someone was asleep on the job and somehow I have the feeling it has to do with Netanyahu.

That's something I find difficult to understand too. Usually Mossad is known to be one of the best. I have difficulties to believe they had no clue of a massive invasion like that. I mean even if Hamas planned it all in top secrecy, the moment the plan is reveled to the lower level commanders that have to execute the plan Mossad should have gotten wind of it. At the latest when the terror squads were mobilized and got ready to go they should have noticed that something was up.

Netanyahu is fighting for his political survival right now as a good part of the Israeli population isn't happy with his power grab attempts reforms. A "Pearl Harbor" could rally the people behind him once more and he could proof to be the strong leader. However that is all pure speculation on my part so far I haven't seen any evidence of that but it's really strange how all of this unfolded.

As to why Israel can't do wrong I have no idea. They have been stirring the pot just as much as the Palestinians and both sides seem to be completely unwilling to get to a peaceful solution. Why it's almost exclusively blamed on one side is beyond me. I can understand that Germany is holding back because of our history with the Jewish people but why can't the others see what's going on?

Anyway I've given up hope for the area. There won't be peace in the foreseeable future. The religious hardliners will make sure of it.     

There won't be peace in the foreseeable future. The religious hardliners will make sure of it.     

That has looked ever more inevitable since Rabin was assassinated - those in power in both Israel and Palestine pretty much since then have played their electors with a "you need me to protect you" while never really trying for the sort of peace that actually would give some kind of security to both sides.

Netanyahu hasn't been quite as overtly "I'm gonna stir up trouble, then expect people to vote for me to put down exactly the sort of trouble I've stirred up" as Sharon, but he has definitely been playing politics with Israel's security situation (see also Maggie Thatcher at the height of her unpopularity).

I grew up with two (Jewish) grandparents, one of whom was an "Israel can do no wrong" sort, and the other a far more nuanced "it's a bit more complicated than that"; my father (raised Jewish, but stopped believing the religion bit long before I was born) would rail against the hypocrisy as each side would point at the other's behaviour, claiming it justified their own atrocities.

In other news: it's utterly sickening to hear US politicians trying to score party political points from this with their made-up talking points.

Looks like the Israelis are shutting down all water and power supply to The Strip, and are now bombing the hell out of some Gaza neighborhoods.

Hafez al-Assad knew how to put down Islamic militants. After he kicked major butt at Hama back in ‘82, they got the heck out of Syria, and there were no more shenanigans there for roughly 30 years.

It’s because (a) people confuse modern day Israel and it’s citizens with the biblical “Israelites”, and (b) the pro-Israel lobby showers politicians with money, and (c) people who oppose Israeli policy are summarily branded as Nazis and antisemites, a form of “cancelation” that’s 70+ years old.


Churches teach/preach to support Israel until the end of time, literally. In Revelations it talks about how the whole world will eventually turn on Israel and then the battle of Armageddon happens.

Do you guys have family members that live in Israel?

Do you guys have family members that live in Israel?
A friend of has a sister there, and he is worried for her.

British Airways has suspended flights to Israel after turning back one of its planes shortly before landing, due to security concerns.

A friend of has a sister there, and he is worried for her.

My Father has a friend/co-worker who has people living in Israel.

Do you guys have family members that live in Israel?

A whole bunch of second cousins, maybe one or two of whom I've met 25ish years ago

This is worth a read - yes, it's quite long, but anything which isn't is probably an oversimplification:

https://twitter.com/Ike_Saul/status/1711780282725011520

..but it's the best, most nuanced view (that is closest to my own viewpoint) of anything that I have read.

Not sure I accept the GOP talking point re release of Iranian funds being in any way causal, though. He says "it doesn't help", but at the point where Iran would have been shipping munitions over to Gaza, they didn't even know the money was going to be released. It can't even count as a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy, as the sequencing was the wrong way around. But that doesn't stop the usual suspects from doing whatever they can to tarnish a president they dislike.

This is worth a read - yes, it's quite long, but anything which isn't is probably an oversimplification:

https://twitter.com/Ike_Saul/status/1711780282725011520

..but it's the best, most nuanced view (that is closest to my own viewpoint) of anything that I have read.

Not sure I accept the GOP talking point re release of Iranian funds being in any way causal, though. He says "it doesn't help", but at the point where Iran would have been shipping munitions over to Gaza, they didn't even know the money was going to be released. It can't even count as a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy, as the sequencing was the wrong way around. But that doesn't stop the usual suspects from doing whatever they can to tarnish a president they dislike.


Excellent post. That's how I feel, too. But it will be another eye for another eye until everyone is blind.


Cat

Excellent post. That's how I feel, too. But it will be another eye for another eye until everyone is blind.


Cat

I fear you are right: it has seemed ever more inevitable since Rabin was assassinated - for a brief while all those years ago, it looked like a peace was possible; but it has been a worsening spiral ever since :-(

My Father has a friend/co-worker who has people living in Israel.


Two daughters of my mother's friend are living there.

Some UK tourists are spending thousands of pounds on flights to try to get out of Israel, describing the situation as "horrendous".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67087647

The UK will deploy patrol and surveillance aircraft and two Royal Navy ships to the eastern Mediterranean “to support Israel", No 10 says. Maritime patrol and surveillance aircraft will begin flying in the region tomorrow "to track threats to regional stability". The support package includes two Royal Navy ships, surveillance assets, P8 aircraft, and a company of marines. Rishi Sunak said the assistance would "prevent further escalation". Under the plans, a Royal Navy task group will be moved to the area next week to support humanitarian efforts, Downing Street said.

Two daughters of my mother's friend are living there.

How do they feel about the chaos over there?

Rumor has it that tomorrow is a planned jihad by Hamas against the Jewish people. Hopefully nothing crazy happens but it's better to take caution.

Rumor has it that tomorrow is a planned jihad by Hamas against the Jewish people. Hopefully nothing crazy happens but it's better to take caution.
Please do not let it happen!

How do they feel about the chaos over there?


How do you think they feel?


Cat

How do you think they feel?


Cat

They feel upset.  :(

They feel upset.  :(


I haven't contacted them personally as I haven't spoken to them or seen them since childhood, and not sure if my mom has, but I can imagine. Especially since last year I knew what my wife's family and friends in Ukraine were going through. In fact this past week has given deja vu feelings of late February 2022.

BBC journalists covering the attack on Israel were assaulted and held at gunpoint after they were stopped by police in the Israeli city of Tel Aviv.

BBC journalists covering the attack on Israel were assaulted and held at gunpoint after they were stopped by police in the Israeli city of Tel Aviv.


They must have been up to no good. We all know that the Israelis are dripping with virtue and righteousness.

The BBC guys were probably antisemites.

Back in the '70s, my SIL (brother's wife) worked at a Jewish summer school/camp that was at a school. I went to work with her for a couple of days. One day there were a bunch of Israelis who were visiting and were talking to the students in the gym. I thought it would be a good time to use the bathroom. As I was walking to the bathroom, I noticed some of the Israelis teaching some of the teachers a dance in one of the classrooms. After using the bathroom, I asked if I could join them. They were teaching us the Hora. Then we all went back into the gym. On cue, we got up and danced the Hora to show the students. As a thank you for participating, they gave all of us a pin that had the Israeli flag and said, "After 40 centuries, it's great to be 30". I kept the pin but over the decades and many moves, it disappeared.

I have been going through boxes that have been in the basement pretty much since we moved in. Yesterday I found the pin in one of those boxes. I marvel at the timeliness of it. If I found it a could of weeks ago, I wouldn't have thought much of it. I think the Universe is sending me a message but what that message is, I don't have a clue.


Cat

I haven't contacted them personally as I haven't spoken to them or seen them since childhood, and not sure if my mom has, but I can imagine. Especially since last year I knew what my wife's family and friends in Ukraine were going through. In fact this past week has given deja vu feelings of late February 2022.

I believe our family have ancestors who lived in Israel.

What's happening in the Gaza strip is sickening >:( and shocking :o, we are literally witnessing an ethnic cleansing/genocide in real time with the backing of the world superpower, Israel is gassing these civilians like Jews claim Nazis gassed them. This is playing right into Hamas hands, they want the Muslim world to unite against Israel and they expose the hypocrisy of the Western human rights liberal democracy "rules based order".

What's happening in the Gaza strip is sickening >:( and shocking :o, we are literally witnessing an ethnic cleansing/genocide in real time with the backing of the world superpower, Israel is gassing these civilians like Jews claim Nazis gassed them. This is playing right into Hamas hands, they want the Muslim world to unite against Israel and they expose the hypocrisy of the Western human rights liberal democracy "rules based order".


The only thing that Muslim terrorists respect is unbridled ruthlessness. Look at what Hafez Assad did in Hama in ‘82. No-holds-barred retribution. And that action kept the Muslim “Brotherhood” in its place for more than 30 years. They dared not screw with Hafez Assad because they knew what was gonna happen if they tried it again.  His son was weak though, and the Muslim shenanigans started again in the laughable “Arab Spring” that Obama and McCain bought into, hook, line, and sinker.

As long as the people of Gaza support and harbor the Hamas criminals, they’re complicit. If they decide to not evacuate, then they are shielding the terrorists and have sealed their own fate.

Mind you I do not believe that the USA should provide any military or financial aid to either side in the Israeli/Palestinian matter. That area is irrelevant to our national interest. Let them fight it out and winner take all, instead of the 70+ year gaping, rotting wound that has been perpetuated.

The only thing that Muslim terrorists respect is unbridled ruthlessness. Look at what Hafez Assad did in Hama in ‘82. No-holds-barred retribution. And that action kept the Muslim “Brotherhood” in its place for more than 30 years. They dared not screw with Hafez Assad because they knew what was gonna happen if they tried it again.  His son was weak though, and the Muslim shenanigans started again in the laughable “Arab Spring” that Obama and McCain bought into, hook, line, and sinker.

As long as the people of Gaza support and harbor the Hamas criminals, they’re complicit. If they decide to not evacuate, then they are shielding the terrorists and have sealed their own fate.

Mind you I do not believe that the USA should provide any military or financial aid to either side in the Israeli/Palestinian matter. That area is irrelevant to our national interest. Let them fight it out and winner take all, instead of the 70+ year gaping, rotting wound that has been perpetuated.


What a sinking load of bullcrap ;D Gaza is heavily populated by young children, are they responsible, Hamas thinks the same thing about Israelis, they're ALL complicit for the occupation government, so who cares right, eye for an eye. This thinking is so irrational, no wonder these stupid a** wars always continue because the people in power think just like you do.

What a sinking load of bullcrap ;D Gaza is heavily populated by young children, are they responsible, Hamas thinks the same thing about Israelis, they're ALL complicit for the occupation government, so who cares right, eye for an eye. This thinking is so irrational, no wonder these stupid a** wars always continue because the people in power think just like you do.


Well, the Israelis could just tippy-toe around and get ready to be attacked again.

Israel's military has updated the number of people it believes are being held hostage in Gaza - up from 155 to 199

Here is Pete Davidson's cold open when he hosted SNL on Saturday, the first episode since the WGA strike.

FqGs93VPuZw?si=bYrI9Rpe3KDetazd

Well, the Israelis could just tippy-toe around and get ready to be attacked again.

Or they could overreact in a way that loses them all moral high ground and creates a whole new generation of enemies to continue the cycle ad infinitum.

It is within the power of either side to get off the never-ending atrocity roundabout, but both sets of leaders see advantage in it continuing, and the populaces behind them are too conditioned, too ignorant or possibly just too stupid to realize that the violence doesn't protect them, it just creates more desire for revenge.

US President Joe Biden will visit Israel on Wednesday to hear about its plans for a ground offensive against Hamas militants in Gaza.

US President Joe Biden will visit Israel on Wednesday to hear about its plans for a ground offensive against Hamas militants in Gaza.


A thoroughly misguided event. The President of the. United States has no business visiting either party in that war; it is beneath him to do so.

A thoroughly misguided event. The President of the. United States has no business visiting either party in that war; it is beneath him to do so.
My first thought was, how will the security be?

Meanwhile everyone's favorite ex-president has been criticized as he rightfully deserves, for calling Hezbollah "smart", in the similar fashion that he praised Putin for being a genius when Russia first started invading Ukraine. Also Hamas is another that can be added to the list of words/names he's mispronounced. He pronounced it like "humus", lol.

Meanwhile everyone's favorite ex-president has been criticized as he rightfully deserves, for calling Hezbollah "smart", in the similar fashion that he praised Putin for being a genius when Russia first started invading Ukraine. Also Hamas is another that can be added to the list of words/names he's mispronounced. He pronounced it like "humus", lol.

Are you referring to Trump?

Are you referring to Trump?
Yes, he is.

Yes, he is.


In a subtle way.

Meanwhile it seems that a hospital in Gaza was massively hit with hundreds of fatalities. I wonder if it's a Hamas false flag operation to get the Jihad going or if Israel was really stupid enough to do that deliberately. If so they've lost all moral high ground.

Meanwhile it seems that a hospital in Gaza was massively hit with hundreds of fatalities. I wonder if it's a Hamas false flag operation to get the Jihad going or if Israel was really stupid enough to do that deliberately. If so they've lost all moral high ground.


From what I'm seeing it's a failed rocket from a Palestinian Jihad group. Either way this is terrible, more than 500 dead.

Btw Cat, I was wondering if this thread could also be a sticky like the Ukraine war thread. Looks like this might be going on for awhile too.

Btw Cat, I was wondering if this thread could also be a sticky like the Ukraine war thread. [u[Looks like this might be going on for awhile too.


It’s been going on since at least 1947.

It’s been going on since at least 1947.


Yeah, but the recent conflicts. It's the worst in 50 years, pretty much exactly as 1973 had a big one. But anyhow it was just an idea.

From what I'm seeing it's a failed rocket from a Palestinian Jihad group. Either way this is terrible, more than 500 dead.



The sheer scope of the damage causes me to doubt that an errant rocket caused this. Such damage would require a much more powerful explosive device than what your typical rocket would have. Which points me to the attack more likely being Israeli in nature, whether intentional or accidental.

The sheer scope of the damage causes me to doubt that an errant rocket caused this. Such damage would require a much more powerful explosive device than what your typical rocket would have. Which points me to the attack more likely being Israeli in nature, whether intentional or accidental.
Or the hospital was illegally used to store ammunition and explosives which then blew up... We'll have to see what transpires. :-X

Btw Cat, I was wondering if this thread could also be a sticky like the Ukraine war thread. Looks like this might be going on for awhile too.


How much is it worth to you?  ;) :D ;D

J/k. Done!


Cat

How much is it worth to you?  ;) :D ;D

J/k. Done!


Cat


Lol, ty!  :)

An interesting video by a German Youtuber who claims that there is undeniable proof that Israel did not commit the attack and that Hamas has blown the number of casualties out of proportion. Makes sense to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYVr0lE4S9o

Israel has confirmed that two US hostages who were held by Hamas have been released. Mother and daughter Judith and Natalie Raanan were taken hostage by Hamas at Kibbutz Nahal Oz, in southern Israel.

An interesting video by a German Youtuber who claims that there is undeniable proof that Israel did not commit the attack and that Hamas has blown the number of casualties out of proportion. Makes sense to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYVr0lE4S9o


Yeah only a few dozen or maybe 100 killed. No biggie.

Thousands of people are taking part in a pro-Palestinian protest in London for the second consecutive weekend. The Met Police estimated up to 100,000 people joined the march, which was due to end in a rally near Downing Street.

This whole thing is very scary!!!!!!

This whole thing is very scary!!!!!!
At times I cannot watch on the news.

The UN's humanitarian chief Martin Griffiths says the second convoy of trucks carrying humanitarian aid into Gaza has entered the Palestinian enclave. Fourteen trucks have gone in, a day after the first 20 aid trucks crossed the Rafah border between Egypt and Gaza. Griffiths, UN under-secretary-general for humanitarian affairs, posted on X to say the move was:

"Another small glimmer of hope for the millions of people in dire need of humanitarian aid."

This is gonna sound controversial of me but I think that what the IDF is doing to Gaza is absolutely disgusting, just as bad if not worse than what Hamas did. Suffering is happening on both sides, innocent Israelis and innocent Palestinians being killed and tortured.

I’ve always supported Israel with counterterrorism, and I support them existing as a state, considering all the things they’ve been through before being established in 1948. In fact, I want to go to Jerusalem one day because of its rich history and being one of the holiest sites in the three main Abrahamic religions (I myself am Christian)

However, their treatment of Palestinians is extremely inhumane with all the killing of innocent people. Millions displaced from their land for decades, think about it. Muslims and Christians being discriminated and killed. Palestine also has the right to sovereignty as much as Israel, and they are human as much as the Israelis are.

I don’t support Hamas by any means. What they did is atrocious with all the rape and killings of innocent Israelis, and it is shocking when I saw all the footage of what they’ve done. At the same time however, Israel’s actions are what led to these events. If they think that they’re gonna keep abusing Palestinians in Gaza for many years and expecting that they’re gonna get away with it, they’re in some deep trouble, which is exactly what happened here.

When I saw footage of Gaza city in ruins and families crying for deceased loved ones in rubble, I began to tear up. This is getting out of hand and is a violation of human rights.

This is gonna sound controversial of me but I think that what the IDF is doing to Gaza is absolutely disgusting, just as bad if not worse than what Hamas did. Suffering is happening on both sides, innocent Israelis and innocent Palestinians being killed and tortured.

I’ve always supported Israel with counterterrorism, and I support them existing as a state, considering all the things they’ve been through before being established in 1948. In fact, I want to go to Jerusalem one day because of its rich history and being one of the holiest sites in the three main Abrahamic religions (I myself am Christian)

However, their treatment of Palestinians is extremely inhumane with all the killing of innocent people. Millions displaced from their land for decades, think about it. Muslims and Christians being discriminated and killed. Palestine also has the right to sovereignty as much as Israel, and they are human as much as the Israelis are.

I don’t support Hamas by any means. What they did is atrocious with all the rape and killings of innocent Israelis, and it is shocking when I saw all the footage of what they’ve done. At the same time however, Israel’s actions are what led to these events. If they think that they’re gonna keep abusing Palestinians in Gaza for many years and expecting that they’re gonna get away with it, they’re in some deep trouble, which is exactly what happened here.

When I saw footage of Gaza city in ruins and families crying for deceased loved ones in rubble, I began to tear up. This is getting out of hand and is a violation of human rights.


I don't condone what either side is doing. It is the classic "eye for an eye" approach which only makes the problem worse for both of them.

The International Committee of the Red Cross confirms that two hostages taken captive from Israel by Hamas have been released.

At times I cannot watch on the news.


That's how I was feeling in the early part of 2022 when Russia first invaded Ukraine. Some of those images were disturbing. And then it was one thing after another back in the US.

At times I cannot watch on the news.

Some of the stuff I hear is so horrid I hope it is not real :(

This is gonna sound controversial of me but I think that what the IDF is doing to Gaza is absolutely disgusting, just as bad if not worse than what Hamas did. Suffering is happening on both sides, innocent Israelis and innocent Palestinians being killed and tortured.

I think it's sad that an expression of humanity might be considered controversial: yeah, what Hamas did was an atrocity, but it doesn't make Israel's behaviour right, either.

They're just building up more resentment for the next round of jihad

I think it's sad that an expression of humanity might be considered controversial: yeah, what Hamas did was an atrocity, but it doesn't make Israel's behaviour right, either.

They're just building up more resentment for the next round of jihad
Funny thing is neither side wants to admit it and thinks they are fully in the right.... Makes me want to give up on humanity.

Funny thing is neither side wants to admit it and thinks they are fully in the right.... Makes me want to give up on humanity.

There is a total lack of introspection on both sides (those in power, anyway - there are plenty of individual Israelis and Palestinians who decry their own side's actions & point out that all they're doing is prolonging the conflict): they both point to what the other has done and claim that it fully justifies their own actions, like children in the playground pointing and saying "he started it".

I was pondering the similarities with the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland: what seemed to help the mood change which let the Good Friday Agreement work was when the Republic of Ireland became prosperous, and people started having something to work for & be hopeful about - the political struggle looked less important.

If Israel had been serious about wanting peace in the region, if they'd spent a fraction of what their military gets in building the infrastructure in Gaza, helping people out of poverty & offering them a future that didn't involve oppression, then nobody would be supporting Hamas & they'd fade into oblivion. As it is, the majority of the population in Gaza think that Hamas are the *only* people looking out for them, and will support them however misguided.

But Netanyahu, Sharon and their ilk have preferred their route to personal power, in a very OT "eye for an eye" sort of way. So the same sheesh keeps coming around because a tiny number of people on both sides really want to keep the status quo, and don't care who has to die so they can stay in power.

It was over 20 years ago when I wrote this: http://www.amiright.com/parody/2000s/wheatus28.shtml, not only have things not changed since, there's not really been a glimmer of hope that they might. Sigh. Though I've only just realized that if I had been writing about Ariel Sharon, I really should have picked something from the Little Mermaid.

It always reminds me of Einstein's definition of insanity. The same sheet has been happening since 1947 and there is no end in sight.

It was over 20 years ago when I wrote this: http://www.amiright.com/parody/2000s/wheatus28.shtml, not only have things not changed since, there's not really been a glimmer of hope that they might. Sigh. Though I've only just realized that if I had been writing about Ariel Sharon, I really should have picked something from the Little Mermaid.


Which is why I say the USA should stop funding either side and perpetuating this open, gaping sore.

Let them fight it out, winner-take-all. The “peacemaking” interferences over the past 76 years have just prolonged the agony.

The sides will continue to fight and kill without restraint, until there is only 1 person left. But that is the culture in that part of the world and we need not have any part of it. And we certainly don’t need to fund either side.

The propagandists would have you think that “Israel is key to American security” and that “If you do not support Israel you are anti-Semitic”. Both statements are nonsense, but people with a twisted understanding of religion and history gobble that cr@p up.

In Russia, anti-Semetic violence occurred at the Makhachkala Airport in Dagestan as a plane arrived on the tarmac from Israel.

For three days, the US's top diplomat, Antony Blinken, has been dashing around the Middle East, trying to contain a situation that threatens to spin out of control.

Israel on Friday. Jordan on Saturday. The West Bank, Iraq and Turkey on Sunday.

Every stop posed its own challenges and gave reason to be pessimistic that much progress is being made. The central challenge facing the US secretary of state is that he is trying to find a middle ground where none, at the moment, exists.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67329121

The US understands that Israel will begin to implement four-hour pauses in areas of northern Gaza each day, White House spokesman John Kirby has told reporters.

The World Health Organization (WHO) says Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City "is not functioning as a hospital anymore".

I am just so angry at this mess. There is a conflict happening half way around the world and too many people are getting killed. That 9 year old boy in Illinois. Why? Did he raid Israel on Oct 8th? And if you protest for a cease fire, you are antisemitic.

I am just appalled at what Bibi is doing. In a way, he is worse than Count Vlad. He doesn't care about civilians. Apparently, he doesn't care about his citizens-those who have been taken hostage and those who are fighting this war.

He f**ked up royally!! It was under his watch that Israel was attacked. People had been warning that something was going to happen but those warnings were not heeded. And Bibi is using this as an excuse to commit genocide!

For too long, the U.S. has allowed Israel to have an apartheid regime and support them.  I wish the Biden Administration would tell Bibi enough! And cut off support. It is obvious that Bibi doesn't want peace with the Palestinians. He wants them gone.

If Israel had treated the Palestinians with respect, groups like Hamas would cease to exist. But by bombing civilians and
hospitals, Israel has created more enemies. This is exactly what Hamas wanted and Bibi fell right into their trap.


Cat

If Israel had treated the Palestinians with respect, groups like Hamas would cease to exist. But by bombing civilians and
hospitals, Israel has created more enemies. This is exactly what Hamas wanted and Bibi fell right into their trap.

This

Part of me suspects that the brutality shown by Hamas fighters when they struck in October was precisely to draw the sort of response from Israel to turn those who were neutral or somewhat pro-Israel onto the same side as the more virulent antisemites. It is definitely the case that what Hamas and Netanyahu have most in common is a complete disregard for the lives of the Palestinian people.

One glimmer of hope is that the pushing people into anti-Israel behaviour really hasn't happened to any large degree that I've noticed: the demonstration in London last weekend had some fairly nasty antisemitic banners displayed, but they were a vanishingly small percentage of the estimated 300k people who were just wanting a ceasefire.

Again, this is just my perception, but there also seems to be a much greater discussion/understanding of the nuances than at any time I can remember: far fewer people are jumping on the "Israel can do no wrong"/"Israel is an apartheid/Nazi state" than I have seen in the past - not saying they're gone, and are definitely louder than the people trying to be fair in the middle.. but those on the extremes *always* make more noise.

This

Part of me suspects that the brutality shown by Hamas fighters when they struck in October was precisely to draw the sort of response from Israel to turn those who were neutral or somewhat pro-Israel onto the same side as the more virulent antisemites. It is definitely the case that what Hamas and Netanyahu have most in common is a complete disregard for the lives of the Palestinian people.

One glimmer of hope is that the pushing people into anti-Israel behaviour really hasn't happened to any large degree that I've noticed: the demonstration in London last weekend had some fairly nasty antisemitic banners displayed, but they were a vanishingly small percentage of the estimated 300k people who were just wanting a ceasefire.

Again, this is just my perception, but there also seems to be a much greater discussion/understanding of the nuances than at any time I can remember: far fewer people are jumping on the "Israel can do no wrong"/"Israel is an apartheid/Nazi state" than I have seen in the past - not saying they're gone, and are definitely louder than the people trying to be fair in the middle.. but those on the extremes *always* make more noise.


There was an article in the Washington Post last week(?) stating that Hamas wanted to bring Israel into an all out war. Both Netanyahu & Hamas could care less how many people they slaughter in their quest to eliminate each other.


I remember when I was in college, there was a sign on a professor's door that said, "If you are not outraged, then you aren't paying attention." Well, I am outraged! We all should be.


Cat

There was an article in the Washington Post last week(?) stating that Hamas wanted to bring Israel into an all out war. Both Netanyahu & Hamas could care less how many people they slaughter in their quest to eliminate each other.


I remember when I was in college, there was a sign on a professor's door that said, "If you are not outraged, then you aren't paying attention." Well, I am outraged! We all should be.


Cat


It kind of goes along the same lines of the saying "ignorance is bliss". Anyhow this whole situation is terrible, on both sides.

Even Tokyo of all places had an incident where someone rammed a car into the barricade outside the Israeli embassy.

The office of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he's convening his war cabinet for a meeting this evening "in light of developments related to the release of the abductees".

A few dozen hostages have been released during a truce that began on Friday.

People have been waiting in long queues for fuel and aid in the Gaza Strip, as the four-day truce between Israel and Hamas appears to hold for a second day.

Tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian demonstrators have joined a march in central London calling for a permanent ceasefire in the Israel-Gaza conflict.

Tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian demonstrators have joined a march in central London calling for a permanent ceasefire in the Israel-Gaza conflict.


Seems like a silly concept. Hamas will continue to lob projectiles into Israel as soon as they regroup.

I have little sympathy for either side of that battle. Let them fight it out once and for all and winner take all. With no support to either side from the US, EU, or anybody else.

The rest of the world has wasted its time and fortune tolerating and assisting the perpetual feud amongst the various tribes over there.

Yebbut Hamas is not all Palestinians, much as Netanyahu's government is not all Israelis.

Most people doing most of the suffering and dying on both sides are not the ones wanting the bloodshed.

Again today like yesterday, thousands of people have joined a march in central London in a demonstration against antisemitism, (in the rain!).

Earlier today, 39 Palestinian prisoners were released earlier today in exchange for 17 Israeli and foreign national hostages held in Gaza. The released Palestinians were greeted with celebrations in Ramallah, in the occupied West Bank. Crowds gathered around a bus which carried the some of the prisoners, as people waved flags and chanted and cheered.

Qatar says Israel and Hamas have agreed to a two-day extension to the current truce which has seen hostages freed and Palestinian prisoners released

Qatar says Israel and Hamas have agreed to a two-day extension to the current truce which has seen hostages freed and Palestinian prisoners released


Gives both sides some more time to reload and resume kicking a$$ in a couple of days.

Lather-rinse-repeat.

Gives both sides some more time to reload and resume kicking a$$ in a couple of days.

Lather-rinse-repeat.
Speaking of 'lather-rinse-repeat'...

Untreated diseases could eventually kill more people in Gaza than bombings if the health system is not restored, the World Health Organization says.

The Israeli military says 12 more hostages released by Hamas have left Gaza and are now in Israeli territory

The latest statement from the Israeli security forces says the latest group of six released hostages are now back in Israeli territory, and are accompanied by special forces troops. The statement says the group will next make their way to the Hatzerim Base for initial medical tests - before being reunited with their families.

Israel's renewed bombardment of Gaza is continuing into its second day, as the military warns civilians in some areas to evacuate

Israel has carried out intense air strikes on Khan Younis in southern Gaza, with residents describing it as the heaviest bombing of the war. People in eastern areas of the city have been told by the Israeli military to evacuate further to the south. Israel believes some Hamas leaders are in the city, where many civilians are sheltering after fleeing the north. Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry says at least 193 people have been killed in the latest wave of Israeli attacks.

Israeli ground forces are pushing into southern Gaza, after three days of heavy bombardment.

BREAKING: IDF has claimed that they have killed the top commander of Hamas.

BREAKING: IDF has claimed that they have killed the top commander of Hamas.
Nothing on that in German media. ???

BREAKING: IDF has claimed that they have killed the top commander of Hamas.


They smoked that sucker in an air strike.

BREAKING: IDF has claimed that they have killed the top commander of Hamas.

Nothing on that in German media. ???
Nothing on the British too.

The UN says 600,000 people are under evacuation orders in southern Gaza during fierce fighting - nearly half of whom had already been forced to leave their homes

I don't think anybody is disputing that Israel has the right to defend itself, they do, but they sometimes forget that Palestine has the right to exist.  These protests are what get to me. IDK? Everyone has the right to their opinions.

I don't think anybody is disputing that Israel has the right to defend itself, they do, but they sometimes forget that Palestine has the right to exist.  These protests are what get to me. IDK? Everyone has the right to their opinions.

Hamas has part of its founding charter that Israel does not have the right to exist; they also use civilians and civilian infrastructure (like hospitals) as shields. They've also been excessively brutal and inhumane in their most recent attack on Israel. I can understand Israelis wanting to "wipe out" Hamas (even though it seems like their government has been "propping up" the Hamas regime for years: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ )

But..

Not all Palestinians are Hamas - even when they were first elected, Hamas did not have majority support & they were running against a demonstrably corrupt Fatah. A large majority of Palestinians want Hamas out. Those who protest too loudly are locked up (and probably tortured/killed) by Hamas.

Netanyahu has for years played the "only I can keep you safe" card at election time, at the same time it seems he was actively helping the Hamas regime stay in power - because their threat helped him stay in power. If this turns out to be accurate reporting, I hope they can find a law under which to prosecute him.

It's almost impossible not to feel for a Palestinian population that has been enclosed and oppressed for years by both their own and Israeli governments, and now that Hamas has gone too far are being bombed out of their homes by an Israel army that cares far more about who they're trying to hit than who they try not to. I thought from fairly early on that this was exactly what Hamas wanted to do: piss off Israel so much they committed their own atrocities in response, and these atrocities will then be used as anti-Israel propaganda for years. I kinda think Netanyahu fell right into that trap.

I do not wish to go into detail, but there seems to be many war crimes going on?

I don't think anybody is disputing that Israel has the right to defend itself, they do, but they sometimes forget that Palestine has the right to exist.  These protests are what get to me. IDK? Everyone has the right to their opinions.


This is why I'm staying out of this one and not really taking a side.

The UN Security Council will vote on a resolution put forward by the UAE calling for an "immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza"

This is why I'm staying out of this one and not really taking a side.


And this is why I am opposed to the USA providing funding to either side in this centuries-long feud. Not much virtue to go around over there. Let them fight it out and settle things once and for all. WITHOUT funding or armaments from the USA.

Hamas has part of its founding charter that Israel does not have the right to exist; they also use civilians and civilian infrastructure (like hospitals) as shields. They've also been excessively brutal and inhumane in their most recent attack on Israel. I can understand Israelis wanting to "wipe out" Hamas (even though it seems like their government has been "propping up" the Hamas regime for years: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ )

But..

Not all Palestinians are Hamas - even when they were first elected, Hamas did not have majority support & they were running against a demonstrably corrupt Fatah. A large majority of Palestinians want Hamas out. Those who protest too loudly are locked up (and probably tortured/killed) by Hamas.

Netanyahu has for years played the "only I can keep you safe" card at election time, at the same time it seems he was actively helping the Hamas regime stay in power - because their threat helped him stay in power. If this turns out to be accurate reporting, I hope they can find a law under which to prosecute him.

It's almost impossible not to feel for a Palestinian population that has been enclosed and oppressed for years by both their own and Israeli governments, and now that Hamas has gone too far are being bombed out of their homes by an Israel army that cares far more about who they're trying to hit than who they try not to. I thought from fairly early on that this was exactly what Hamas wanted to do: piss off Israel so much they committed their own atrocities in response, and these atrocities will then be used as anti-Israel propaganda for years. I kinda think Netanyahu fell right into that trap.


I never mentioned anything about HAMAS.  They don't have the right to exist but Palestinian civilians do have the right to exist.  HAMAS killed those Israeli hostages.  Civilians are very different than the HAMAS leaders who have committed wartime atrocities against Israeli citizens and nationals of other countries.

I never mentioned anything about HAMAS.  They don't have the right to exist but Palestinian civilians do have the right to exist.  HAMAS killed those Israeli hostages.  Civilians are very different than the HAMAS leaders who have committed wartime atrocities against Israeli citizens and nationals of other countries.

You may not have mentioned Hamas, but you can't look at what's going on in Gaza without including them: they initiated this latest round of violence, and are pretty much everywhere on the ground. They are the reason the IDF is committing the atrocities they are, intentionally using civilians as human shields and civilian infrastructure as military bases. I believe their savagery and hostage taking was intended to provoke exactly the sort of extreme response so they can paint Israel as the bad guys, and in many places it seems like it is working.

That isn't to say that I think what Israel has done is justified. Understandable, but not justifiable. Though the only thing more distasteful than hearing Israeli government types talking about how they're trying so hard not to kill civilians, is hearing Hamas spokesmen complaining about IDF actions.

The UN General Assembly votes in favour of a non-binding resolution demanding "an immediate humanitarian ceasefire” in Gaza.

The UN General Assembly votes in favour of a non-binding resolution demanding "an immediate humanitarian ceasefire” in Gaza.


https://i.postimg.cc/tgX1DMs4/tp-recycled1-397755559.jpg  <-- Picture of non binding UN resolutions in their natural environment.

The Israeli military says it mistakenly shot killed three hostages during its campaign in Gaza, who it had misidentified as a "threat". It identified two of them as Yotam Haim and Samer Talalka, but did not give the third name.

The Israeli military says it mistakenly shot killed three hostages during its campaign in Gaza, who it had misidentified as a "threat". It identified two of them as Yotam Haim and Samer Talalka, but did not give the third name.


When you indiscriminately shoot at anything that moves, you can claim EVERYTHING was perceived as a threat.

As I’ve often said, there’s not much virtue to go around on either side of the Israeli/Palestinian feud. Which is why the USA should disown both parties and provide zero funding or military aid. Let whoever is going to win… win… and then we can deal with whoever is left standing if need be.

The three Israeli hostages who were mistakenly killed in Gaza by the Israeli military on Friday had been holding up a white cloth on a stick, the IDF says. "The hostages were fired upon against Israel's rules of engagement," an IDF official says.

The three Israeli hostages who were mistakenly killed in Gaza by the Israeli military on Friday had been holding up a white cloth on a stick, the IDF says. "The hostages were fired upon against Israel's rules of engagement," an IDF official says.


Well it’s easy to see how they were misidentified as a threat, what with waving the white flag of surrender and all. Like I said… not much virtue on either side. The bloodthirst of the IDF has killed 3 of their own.

The IDF is using the same play book as the Russians did when they were rampaging through Germany towards the end of WW2.

You may not have mentioned Hamas, but you can't look at what's going on in Gaza without including them: they initiated this latest round of violence, and are pretty much everywhere on the ground. They are the reason the IDF is committing the atrocities they are, intentionally using civilians as human shields and civilian infrastructure as military bases. I believe their savagery and hostage-taking was intended to provoke exactly the sort of extreme response so they can paint Israel as the bad guys, and in many places, it seems like it is working.

That isn't to say that I think what Israel has done is justified. Understandable, but not justifiable. Though the only thing more distasteful than hearing Israeli government types talking about how they're trying so hard not to kill civilians, is hearing Hamas spokesmen complaining about IDF actions.


No, Israel has the absolute right to defend themselves but what right do they have to take the lives of Palestinian civilians who haven't done anything wrong but just exist?

Well it’s easy to see how they were misidentified as a threat, what with waving the white flag of surrender and all.

Playing the devil's advocate here but I wonder how often HAMAS fighters have pretended to surrender just to open fire or detonate a bomb.
Not saying it did happen but it wouldn't surprise me.


Like I said… not much virtue on either side.
With that I agree.

The three Israeli hostages who were mistakenly killed in Gaza by the Israeli military on Friday had been holding up a white cloth on a stick, the IDF says. "The hostages were fired upon against Israel's rules of engagement," an IDF official says.


The white flag on a stick means that they surrender or give up.

The white flag on a stick means that they surrender or give up.
Exactly!

You may not have mentioned Hamas, but you can't look at what's going on in Gaza without including them: they initiated this latest round of violence, and are pretty much everywhere on the ground. They are the reason the IDF is committing the atrocities they are, intentionally using civilians as human shields and civilian infrastructure as military bases. I believe their savagery and hostage taking was intended to provoke exactly the sort of extreme response so they can paint Israel as the bad guys, and in many places it seems like it is working.

That isn't to say that I think what Israel has done is justified. Understandable, but not justifiable. Though the only thing more distasteful than hearing Israeli government types talking about how they're trying so hard not to kill civilians, is hearing Hamas spokesmen complaining about IDF actions.


First off, Israeli intelligence knew far in advance of the Hamas attack, second off Netanyahu has publicly supported Hamas, the group Israel claims to be fighting against like they're in some World War 2 movie, you don't make any sense, it's not hard to put two and two together now is it.

The IDF is the reason for the atrocities committed against Palestinian civilians, the sheer mental gymnastics you're displaying 8-P.

The white flag on a stick means that they surrender or give up.


Remember, Hamas made them shoot the hostages!!!!!

Unlike Hamas and the "Friends of Palestine" in the western left who take useful idiot to a whole new level, I can say quite certainly that the Israeli government and modern-day people of the Jewish religion and status never:



* Fire missiles indiscriminately at cities.
* Send teenage suicide bombers to blow themselves up on buses.
* Stab people at random in the streets.
* Murder elderly peace activists like Vivian Silver
* Murder farm workers from Thailand and agriculture students from Nepal.
* Massacre young people at music festivals.
* Torture, rape and murder women.
* Murder infants and children.



Fortunately, not everyone on the left or in the LGBTI community is as deluded as Sarah Schulman. It has been very educational over the past two months to read commentators in the leftist Israeli daily "Ha'aretz", the sworn enemy of Netanyahu and all his works, expressing the incredulity, shock and anger of progressive Israelis at the attitude taken by Western academic leftists who make excuses for Hamas's atrocities and call for the destruction of their country.

To take one example of many progressive voices who have distanced themselves from this idiocy: the gay Canadian author Allan Stratton writes: “Oct. 7 was a life-changing gut punch to liberals like me. It turned many of us into Zionists, including those once sympathetic to the Palestine Liberation Organization. The sadistic bloodletting of Jews in the land of their birth shoved the horrors of the Holocaust in our faces. It wasn’t just the gleeful depravity of the Hamas murders, rapes and burnings that changed the world. Or Hamas’s barbarous use of Palestinian women and children as human shields and corpse propaganda. It was also the celebration of savagery by far-left intersectional apologists."

Unlike Hamas and the "Friends of Palestine" in the western left who take useful idiot to a whole new level, I can say quite certainly that the Israeli government and modern-day people of the Jewish religion and status never:



* Fire missiles indiscriminately at cities.
* Send teenage suicide bombers to blow themselves up on buses.
* Stab people at random in the streets.
* Murder elderly peace activists like Vivian Silver
* Murder farm workers from Thailand and agriculture students from Nepal.
* Massacre young people at music festivals.
* Torture, rape and murder women.
* Murder infants and children.



Fortunately, not everyone on the left or in the LGBTI community is as deluded as Sarah Schulman. It has been very educational over the past two months to read commentators in the leftist Israeli daily "Ha'aretz", the sworn enemy of Netanyahu and all his works, expressing the incredulity, shock and anger of progressive Israelis at the attitude taken by Western academic leftists who make excuses for Hamas's atrocities and call for the destruction of their country.

To take one example of many progressive voices who have distanced themselves from this idiocy: the gay Canadian author Allan Stratton writes: “Oct. 7 was a life-changing gut punch to liberals like me. It turned many of us into Zionists, including those once sympathetic to the Palestine Liberation Organization. The sadistic bloodletting of Jews in the land of their birth shoved the horrors of the Holocaust in our faces. It wasn’t just the gleeful depravity of the Hamas murders, rapes and burnings that changed the world. Or Hamas’s barbarous use of Palestinian women and children as human shields and corpse propaganda. It was also the celebration of savagery by far-left intersectional apologists."


Look, I'm far from some "woke" leftist and I'm actually very critical of the identity politics they practice but the truth of the matter is the Israeli government ain't sheesh. The IDF does indiscriminately shoot "dumb" bombs into cities and wants mass civilian causalities, they've murdered significantly more children than Hamas can ever hope to imagine. They're assassinating journalists(and their families) left and right, this level of brutality has been unprecedent since the end of World War 2.

They knew of a Hamas style attack one year in advance and did not take any measures to prevent it ::), is the Mossad really THAT incompetent. The level of credulity with some people in the Israeli government's narrative of "defending itself" with the facts about Benjamin Netanyahu supporting Hamas, the guy leading the freakin' war campaign.

You talk about Hamas sending suicide bombers but the Israeli government/IDF is more than happy to let their own people die, both are messed up.

The far left "intersectionality" cultist and American author Sarah Schulman coined the term “pinkwashing”, the suggestion that Israel attempts to distract from its ongoing violation of Palestinian human rights by projecting an image of tolerance and acceptance of LGBTQ+ people inside Israel to a wider audience.

This tells me that Schulman has never been to Israel or taken part in the annual Pride marches in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Presumably she has never met Idan Roll, until recently Deputy Foreign Minister of Israel, and his husband, or Amir Ohana, currently Speaker of the Knesset, and his husband. (There are six openly gay MKs in the current Knesset.) Nor the openly-gay members of the IDF currently fighting in Gaza – one of whom flies a rainbow flag on his tank.


To say all this is just propaganda is an insult to the large and very diverse Israeli LGBTI community (including Israeli Arabs), who are open, loud and proud to live in a country where they enjoy freedom, respect and equality.


The fact is that the love affair between the “queer left” as represented by people like Schulman and the Palestinians is entirely one-sided. The supposed affinity between Western academic queer activists and Palestinian terrorists is a fantasy - a rather masochistic and pathetic one, in my opinion. If Schulman choses to express her solidarity with the Palestinian people by going to live in “Palestine”, she will learn very quickly what the Palestinians think of queer Jews. The “Movement to Free Palestine” aims mainly to free Palestine of Jews, and the fact that Schulman foolishly romanticizes Palestinian terrorism won’t gain her an exemption, any more than Vivian Silver’s peace activism saved her from being murdered by Hamas.


To be clear, I am not criticizing Schulman for not being a Zionist. Plenty of Jews are not Zionists and that is their prerogative. It is not for me to tell Jews that they should be Zionists – I leave that to my Zionist Jewish friends. But it is for me, and you Em, to argue with anyone, Jewish or not, who tells blatant lies about Israel or makes excuses for Palestinian terrorism.

The far left "intersectionality" cultist and American author Sarah Schulman coined the term “pinkwashing”, the suggestion that Israel attempts to distract from its ongoing violation of Palestinian human rights by projecting an image of tolerance and acceptance of LGBTQ+ people inside Israel to a wider audience.

This tells me that Schulman has never been to Israel or taken part in the annual Pride marches in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Presumably she has never met Idan Roll, until recently Deputy Foreign Minister of Israel, and his husband, or Amir Ohana, currently Speaker of the Knesset, and his husband. (There are six openly gay MKs in the current Knesset.) Nor the openly-gay members of the IDF currently fighting in Gaza – one of whom flies a rainbow flag on his tank.


To say all this is just propaganda is an insult to the large and very diverse Israeli LGBTI community (including Israeli Arabs), who are open, loud and proud to live in a country where they enjoy freedom, respect and equality.


The fact is that the love affair between the “queer left” as represented by people like Schulman and the Palestinians is entirely one-sided. The supposed affinity between Western academic queer activists and Palestinian terrorists is a fantasy - a rather masochistic and pathetic one, in my opinion. If Schulman choses to express her solidarity with the Palestinian people by going to live in “Palestine”, she will learn very quickly what the Palestinians think of queer Jews. The “Movement to Free Palestine” aims mainly to free Palestine of Jews, and the fact that Schulman foolishly romanticizes Palestinian terrorism won’t gain her an exemption, any more than Vivian Silver’s peace activism saved her from being murdered by Hamas.


To be clear, I am not criticizing Schulman for not being a Zionist. Plenty of Jews are not Zionists and that is their prerogative. It is not for me to tell Jews that they should be Zionists – I leave that to my Zionist Jewish friends. But it is for me, and you Em, to argue with anyone, Jewish or not, who tells blatant lies about Israel or makes excuses for Palestinian terrorism.


So because the Palestinians are largely "unwoke" they deserve mass slaughter, she's right, Israel is "pinkwashing" it's terrorism.

You suspiciously sound just like a woke leftist, you're just saying LGBTI trumps poor brown people in this contest.

I think some of the "woke" people criticizing Israel actually have more nuanced views about this although many young people are quite naive about Hamas and it's social tolerance.

So because the Palestinians are largely "unwoke" they deserve mass slaughter, she's right, Israel is "pinkwashing" it's terrorism.

You suspiciously sound just like a woke leftist, you're just saying LGBTI trumps poor brown people in this contest.

I think some of the "woke" people criticizing Israel actually have more nuanced views about this although many young people are quite naive about Hamas and it's social tolerance.



Any figure or "fact" provided by an Arab Muslim political or military or Muslim world source or the western left intelligentsia about Israel/Palestine is as phony as a three dollar bill.




The claim that Israel bombed the al-Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza is still online at the UN "Human Rights" website, weeks after it was conclusively shown that Israel did not bomb the hospital. In fact, the hospital was not bombed at all - an Islamic Jihad missile misfired and landed in the carpark, killing perhaps 100 people (not 470). No-one was "trapped under the rubble," because there was no rubble. The claim that Israel issued warnings that it was going to bomb the hospital is a complete fabrication.


The same is true of the al-Shifa hospital. Although the hospital was damaged during the fighting in the streets around it, it was never bombed, and aerial photos show it is largely intact. The damage is all on the edges of the hospital complex, showing that it was not caused by deliberate strikes on the hospital. Nevertheless, gullible media predictably repeated Hamas's false claims that the hospital was bombed. Israeli troops later entered and searched the hospital, as they were entitled to do since Hamas had been using it as a command post and to store weapons. Israel has now exposed the extensive Hamas tunnel system under the hospital, which its directors must have known about.


Two weeks after the fighting at al-Shifa, the same story unfolded at the Indonesian Hospital. Again, the media falsely reported Israel airstrikes on the hospital. Again, it was shown that there were no airstrikes, although there was ground fighting - which of course could only happen if Hamas fighters were inside the hospital. Again, Israel has argued that the hospital has been built on top of a Hamas tunnel system, and also that Hamas was firing missiles at Israel from a launch-site 75 meters from the hospital. We have not yet seen video of tunnels under this hospital, but given that it was opened only in 2015, on land donated by the Hamas-controlled government, it is almost impossible for there *not* to be tunnels under it.


The fact is that Israel has not deliberately bombed any hospitals in Gaza. It has conducted airstrikes on military targets near hospitals, because that is where Hamas deliberately places its military assets, and that has inevitably caused some damage. Israel has also occupied hospitals in the course of its operations against Hamas. Since all these hospitals are being used by Hamas for military purposes, Israel is quite entitled to occupy them.


Once again it must be stressed that every civilian death at a Gaza hospital, as with every civilian death in Gaza as a whole, is the responsibility of Hamas. It was Hamas that initiated this round of conflict by attacking Israel on 7 October, knowing perfectly well what Israel's response would be. It is Hamas which has deliberately militarized the whole of Gaza, including hospitals, schools, mosques and apartment blocks, knowing that this would cause civilian deaths when Israel attacked those military assets. It is Hamas, which is prolonging the conflict, regardless of the cost in human lives, when as a terrorist organization it has no belligerent rights. If Hamas cared about civilian deaths, it would remove itself from Gaza, instead of forcing Israel to do the job.


Once this conflict is over, the United Nations and its various agencies will have some serious questions to answer about the roles they have played. Through UNRWA and other agencies, they have funded Hamas to the tune of billions of dollars. UNRWA's schools (funded in part with your taxes) have indoctrinated generations of Palestinian children to hate Jews and Israel. UN agencies have maliciously repeated every Hamas propaganda claim, such as the hospital-bombing stories. It took "UN Women" nearly two months to make any comment on the widespread rape of Israeli women by Hamas terrorists on 7 October. The UN's "Human Rights" commission cares nothing for human rights violations when Israel cannot be blamed for them.

Once again it must be stressed that every civilian death at a Gaza hospital, as with every civilian death in Gaza as a whole, is the responsibility of Hamas. It was Hamas that initiated this round of conflict by attacking Israel on 7 October, knowing perfectly well what Israel's response would be. It is Hamas which has deliberately militarized the whole of Gaza, including hospitals, schools, mosques and apartment blocks, knowing that this would cause civilian deaths when Israel attacked those military assets. It is Hamas, which is prolonging the conflict, regardless of the cost in human lives, when as a terrorist organization it has no belligerent rights. If Hamas cared about civilian deaths, it would remove itself from Gaza, instead of forcing Israel to do the job.

Again with this, the genocidal Israeli response to an attack they knew about in advance and the terrorist group who carried out the attack Netanyahu propped up, wow it almost sounds like the Israeli government is against a more moderate, reasonable Palestine government so they can more easily justify their Zionist bs. Again it all seems to lead right back to the Israeli government, you keep conveniently ignoring the conflict of interest in the official narrative they put out vs the actual facts.

Why don't you condemn Netanyahu as a terrorist sympathizer huh, it's hypocritical to condemn western woke activists but not condemn Netanyahu and his government.

Once this conflict is over, the United Nations and its various agencies will have some serious questions to answer about the roles they have played. Through UNRWA and other agencies, they have funded Hamas to the tune of billions of dollars. UNRWA's schools (funded in part with your taxes) have indoctrinated generations of Palestinian children to hate Jews and Israel. UN agencies have maliciously repeated every Hamas propaganda claim, such as the hospital-bombing stories. It took "UN Women" nearly two months to make any comment on the widespread rape of Israeli women by Hamas terrorists on 7 October. The UN's "Human Rights" commission cares nothing for human rights violations when Israel cannot be blamed for them.


No when this conflict is over Israeli government and the IDF  is going to answer, like how they let the attack happen in the first place for one thing.
The whole world is watching the IDF get away with sheer brutality because of the backing of the US military, Netanyahu doesn't care about "optics", he's said so himself.

Genocidal people don't warn people to leave areas of operation. Even the IRA did/do phone calls. I don't know why you keep pushing the "Islam is peaceful and progressive" propaganda of the trots and tankies. In ten countries of the Islamic world, you can be judicially murdered by the state for daring to leave Islam. In the remainder it is usually extra-judicial and with impunity. For a lot of things other than "I think this "Islam" thing is a bit of unscientific rubbish" as well.

Once again it must be stressed that every civilian death at a Gaza hospital, as with every civilian death in Gaza as a whole, is the responsibility of Hamas. It was Hamas that initiated this round of conflict by attacking Israel on 7 October, knowing perfectly well what Israel's response would be. It is Hamas which has deliberately militarized the whole of Gaza, including hospitals, schools, mosques and apartment blocks, knowing that this would cause civilian deaths when Israel attacked those military assets. It is Hamas, which is prolonging the conflict, regardless of the cost in human lives, when as a terrorist organization it has no belligerent rights. If Hamas cared about civilian deaths, it would remove itself from Gaza, instead of forcing Israel to do the job.


By this logic, the My Lai Massacre was the fault of the Viet Cong.

Genocidal people don't warn people to leave areas of operation. Even the IRA did/do phone calls. I don't know why you keep pushing the "Islam is peaceful and progressive" propaganda of the trots and tankies. In ten countries of the Islamic world, you can be judicially murdered by the state for daring to leave Islam. In the remainder it is usually extra-judicial and with impunity. For a lot of things other than "I think this "Islam" thing is a bit of unscientific rubbish" as well.


Huh, I ain't no "woke" progressive activist or a trot/tankie ;D, my criticism is definitely not coming from that place, I don't like Islam or Christianity, I'm an agnostic atheist.

You still won't address why Netanyahu supported this terrorist, theocratic government in Palestine, evidently he loves him some Islam, selectively of course.

By this logic, the My Lai Massacre was the fault of the Viet Cong.


Maybe their IDF genocide apologist friend philbo can step in and blame Hamas for that one too ;D.

By this logic, the My Lai Massacre was the fault of the Viet Cong.

As with Imperial Japan and Hiroshima - the VC and their masters in Hanoi had set in motion the events which led to that despicable slime Calley being able to do what he did.

First off, Israeli intelligence knew far in advance of the Hamas attack, second off Netanyahu has publicly supported Hamas, the group Israel claims to be fighting against like they're in some World War 2 movie, you don't make any sense, it's not hard to put two and two together now is it.

The IDF is the reason for the atrocities committed against Palestinian civilians, the sheer mental gymnastics you're displaying 8-P.

Seems a bit of a non sequitur compared to the post you were replying to. To what "sheer mental gymnastics" were you referring? That Hamas fighting from within centres of population is at least in part responsible for the atrocities against those civilians they're using as shields? Is that really such a leap of logic?

Netanyahu likes Hamas being there as a boogie man he can use to scare the Israeli people into voting for him. It's disappointing that they haven't seen through this ruse, it has been pretty clear from the outside for years.

The Israeli people voted for Bibi because the Palestinians kepr sending rockets and ****.


After Oct. 7, the best that the Palestinians can hope for for a long time is heightened autonomy not a fully independent state, according to a venerable columnist in the anti-Bibi and very much an Israeli version of the Guardian "Haaretz".

Again, why is anyone believing figures provided by a terrorist group?


The LTTE were a bunch of fascists who invented modern suicide bombing but, hey, Balkanization for the far-left fetish WIN!

The Israeli people voted for Bibi because the Palestinians kepr sending rockets and ****.

I've linked to this article already: https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Netanyahu has helped Hamas stay in power because their lobbing rockets has kept him in office. I do hope the Israeli people recognise this at the next election.

Seems a bit of a non sequitur compared to the post you were replying to. To what "sheer mental gymnastics" were you referring? That Hamas fighting from within centres of population is at least in part responsible for the atrocities against those civilians they're using as shields? Is that really such a leap of logic?


You're alleviating the IDF of accountability, you said so yourself "They are the reason the IDF is committing the atrocities they are" that's straight up bs, notice how I have never alleviated Hamas accountability for the October 7th attack because they are responsible for committing it. Pretty sure the people carrying out the mass destruction of Gaza are the reason for the atrocities.

You're alleviating the IDF of accountability, you said so yourself  that's straight up bs, notice how I have never alleviated Hamas accountability for the October 7th attack because they are responsible for committing it. Pretty sure the people carrying out the mass destruction of Gaza are the reason for the atrocities.



If you're going to try using long words, at least pick the right ones. In a similar vein, try reading all a message rather than quote mining.. Next paragraph after the one you quoted:

That isn't to say that I think what Israel has done is justified. Understandable, but not justifiable.

I'm not trying to exonerate the IDF for committing the atrocities, they have a choice as to how prosecute a war; but the point stands, if Hamas weren't using civilians as human shields, the IDF wouldn't be committing atrocities.

If you think that means I'm saying the IDF have no responsibility for their actions, I'm afraid you're terminally simple-minded

I'm not trying to exonerate the IDF for committing the atrocities, they have a choice as to how prosecute a war; but the point stands, if Hamas weren't using civilians as human shields, the IDF wouldn't be committing atrocities.


You are either extremely stupid or an amoral shill with this "human shields" bs, the Israeli government has repeatedly talked about starving out the entire population of Gaza, no food or water, this is deliberate, they have been called "human animals", that's dehumanization of an entire group to justify committing war crimes. The IDF would be committing atrocities no matter what Hamas does at this point.

You are cowardly, at least thames is up front with their apologist propaganda, don't do this fake "both sides" crap.

You are either extremely stupid or an amoral shill with this "human shields" bs, the Israeli government has repeatedly talked about starving out the entire population of Gaza, no food or water, this is deliberate, they have been called "human animals", that's dehumanization of an entire group to justify committing war crimes. The IDF would be committing atrocities no matter what Hamas does at this point.

You are cowardly, at least thames is up front with their apologist propaganda, don't do this fake "both sides" crap.

"Fake both sides"?

No, the whole point is that both sides *are* massively at fault: Hamas attacked with a truly inhumane barbarity. IMHO, this was done with the intention of provoking exactly the sort of reaction and lack of restraint that has followed. Hamas are trying to turn world opinion against Israel, and Netanyahu has done his best to help them succeed in that aim. Finding out that he has been supporting Hamas over the years is one more level of sickening behaviour on top.

The Palestinian people, most of whom want nothing to do with Hamas, are far and away the biggest victims of the whole sorry story. They've been appallingly treated by their own government, and massacred by the IDF.

So please explain why I'm stupid or an amoral shill. Or apologise.

Phil, I think that we are both puzzled by why the person you are replying to believes anything said by any of the Arab-Islamic countries - none of which are democracies, Al Jazeera (effectively the state media of the Iranian Quatari client regime) or any Palestinian political or military group (e. g. PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad) who are the jackboot upon the face of the Palestinian people in PA-controlled areas and Gaza?

So please explain why I'm stupid or an amoral shill. Or apologise.


You just said Hamas are the ones really responsible for the atrocities because they are using human shields, you reiterated that.

Is Hamas using civilian areas to attack the IDF, probably, but there are many instances of the Israeli government and IDF just being apparently sadistic, they tell people to flee to a protected area only to bomb and slaughter them later, they've fired white phosphorus shells into heavily populated areas which I think is an international war crime.

They are practicing collective punishment, Israel president had this to say about the Palestinians "It is an entire nation out there that is responsible. It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat."

Israel defense minister Yoav Gallant “We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza. No electricity, no food, no water, no fuel – everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we must act accordingly.”

Relatively normal humans have the capacity to be selectively sociopathic, when you think of another group as not even human then it's like killing some ants, it's the banality of evil.

Israel is NOT engaging in "collective punishment" any more than the Allies needing to destroy Germany and Japan's industrial and logistic capabilities through air attacks was. Modern wars are fought between fully mobilized states (or non-state actors) not just professional armies.


The Arab Spring and the Green Revolution proved that ordinary people could rise up if they roused themselves enough.

You just said Hamas are the ones really responsible for the atrocities because they are using human shields, you reiterated that.

Ah, I am sorry: I thought you might have had some ability to comprehend the written word. Apparently I was wrong. 

It is undeniable that Hamas bear some of the responsibility for the harm being vested on the Palestinian people: if they hadn't attacked with such brutality, taken hostages, used hospitals and other civilian buildings as bases, then the sorts of atrocities we are seeing from the IDF would not be happening.

This does not mean they bear all responsibility: I have already stated and repeated that the IDF have chosen an inhumane option that they did not have to. They have been so gung-ho they've already managed to kill some of the hostages, who were even waving a white flag.

Neither Hamas nor the Israeli government/army have any claims to any kind of moral high ground whatsoever.


Israel is NOT engaging in "collective punishment" any more than the Allies needing to destroy Germany and Japan's industrial and logistic capabilities through air attacks was. Modern wars are fought between fully mobilized states (or non-state actors) not just professional armies.

The Arab Spring and the Green Revolution proved that ordinary people could rise up if they roused themselves enough.

I'm afraid I disagree: Israel *is* applying collective punishment. The argument that "the Palestinians could have rebelled against Hamas" is spurious given the number of civilians tortured/killed by Hamas for speaking out - it's not like there was anywhere they could run to if a coup failed. They had no chance to vote Hamas out - it has seemed for many years that the Israeli government has been completely content with that state of affairs, because it means they can keep repeating "Israel is the only democracy in the region".

And Netanyahu has been supporting the Hamas regime, helping to ensure that such dissent does not become rebellion.

But most Israelis think Netanyahu should be kicked out - he barely has majority support as leader within his own party (and that party would come a distant second if a poll was held tomorrow). I guess it's not exactly surprising, given that the only reason many voted for him was to protect Israel as he has so often claimed that he is the only person able to do so (even while aiding Israel's enemies - the brass-necked hypocrisy of the guy gets worse every time you look at it)

It’s no more collect punishment then WWII. If we’d had these pacifist idiocy, we wouldn’t have fought Hirohito and Hitler because German and Japanese civilians were being killed by Allied bombing. It was the Nazis and the IJA that changed the allied views on bombing. Guernica, Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry led to Hamburg, Dresden and Hiroshima.

It’s no more collect punishment then WWII. If we’d had these pacifist idiocy, we wouldn’t have fought Hirohito and Hitler because German and Japanese civilians were being killed by Allied bombing. It was the Nazis and the IJA that changed the allied views on bombing. Guernica, Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry led to Hamburg, Dresden and Hiroshima.

From: https://casebook.icrc.org/a_to_z/glossary/collective-punishments
The term refers not only to criminal punishment, but also to other types of sanctions, harassment or administrative action taken against a group in retaliation for an act committed by an individual/s who are considered to form part of the group. Such punishment therefore targets persons who bear no responsibility for having committed the conduct in question.  Historically used as a deterrence tool by occupying powers to prevent attacks from resistance movements, collective punishments for acts committed by individuals during an armed conflict are prohibited by IHL against prisoners of war or other protected persons.

The bombing of Gaza, horrendous and as indiscriminate as it is, probably wouldn't count as collective punishment & is pretty much the sort of similarity you're talking about; however, preventing fuel, food, medical supplies from entering/being distributed has to count, otherwise the idea has no validity under any wartime circumstance.

The people doing most of the suffering and dying aren't Hamas. However, neither Israel nor Hamas seems to care one iota about that, or them.

If Hamas has plenty of fuel/supplies, then preventing more from entering Gaza *only* harms civilians and has no military benefit. Just because Hamas are somewhat extreme dicks doesn't mean it becomes OK for Israel to deny food and fuel to the innocents caught in the middle.

If Hamas has plenty of fuel/supplies, then preventing more from entering Gaza *only* harms civilians and has no military benefit. Just because Hamas are somewhat extreme dicks doesn't mean it becomes OK for Israel to deny food and fuel to the innocents caught in the middle.


No.  You do not understand. Israel is always good and noble, its actions drenched in virtue. That’s what people want you to think.

And if you do not think that, then you’ll be derided as “anti semitic” or “semiphobic”.

Again, LB, given how pretty much every part of Palestinian leadership is listed terrorist orgs like Hamas, IJ or the PLO, why are you believing anything they say? pretty much none of the Muslim world are democracies and non-Muslim minorities are treated pretty horrifically across the Islamic world.


Who said I believe everything Hamas says? generally they represent a religion that idolizes a warlord, subjugates women and pretty much hates everybody.

Reports say that the US Navy has sunk three out of four Huthi boats that were attacking a freighter.
I hope that sends a message to these guys.

Reports say that the US Navy has sunk three out of four Huthi boats that were attacking a freighter.
I hope that sends a message to these guys.


I don’t understand why the US choppers didn’t annihilate the fourth boat too, instead of letting it get away.

Or better yet, followed it back to its base and leveled the base. 

Hamas says its deputy head Saleh al-Arouri has been killed in a blast in Beirut

Thousands have attended a pro-Israel rally in London to mark 100 days since the 7 October attacks and call for the release of all hostages from Gaza.

Residents of Khan Younis in southern Gaza say they have faced one of the most intense nights of air strikes since the start of Israel's offensive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68004449

The most interesting propaganda by the useful idiots for Hamas and the PLO and other assorted Islamists/Arab nationalists in the last several weeks is the claim that the Palestinian Arabs are "the indigenous people of the area". Um, their ancestors conquered the area in the 7th century. They are no more the "indigenous" people than the descendants of the Telmarines that conquered Narnia between "Wardrobe" and "Caspian". Sorry I just can't believe progressives side with Islamists and Islamic culture that oppose everything progressives supposedly support. I guess it's the same as kid gloving pre-Columbian human sacrifice of babies and children to the gods to bring more rain - or indeed the decided lack of desire to tear down statutes of Ho Chi Minh etc during the Colson/Rhodes campaign. - crimes against humanity or POS human beings are ok if they are conducted by marginalised groups?

South Africa has set itself up the leader of the world prosecution team against Israel, by asking the International Court of Justice to find Israel guilty of “genocide” in its war against the Hamas terrorists who rule Gaza. Why has South Africa, which has no direct involvement in conflicts in the Middle East, decided to take on this role?




The answer, as is often the case in such matters, has little to do with Israel or Hamas, and a lot to do with domestic politics.




It’s election year in South Africa, and the African National Congress (ANC), which has ruled without serious opposition since the end of the apartheid era in 1994, is facing the prospect of losing its majority in the National Assembly for the first time. The ANC polled 57% of the vote at the 2019 election, but the polls at present are giving it between 45% and 50%. Since the Assembly is elected by proportional representation, an ANC vote of under 50% could see it win a minority of seats, and be forced to negotiate with other parties to secure re-election for President Cyril Ramaphosa.




The reasons for the decline in support for the ANC are not far to seek. After thirty years years in power, the prestige the party acquired during the long struggle against apartheid has faded. After the retirement of Nelson Mandela, his two successors, Thabo Mbeki and Jacob Zuma, were forced to resign following corruption allegations (amply proved in Zuma’s case). Ramaphosa has also faced corruption accusations, although nothing has been proved.
South Africa’s economic situation and standard of living, after improving during the early ANC years, have been in decline for the past decade. Its infrastructure is crumbling due to chronic under-investment. The economy is being dragged down by a bloated, inefficient state sector stuffed with ANC cronies. The unemployment rate is 30% and the youth unemployment rate is over 50%.




At this election the ANC faces challenges on both flanks. The official opposition is the Democratic Alliance (DA), a broadly liberal party supported by most of the White, Coloured and Indian communities, but with little support among the African majority. A more dangerous opponent is the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF), a Marxist-Leninist and Black Nationalist party, which has growing appeal to young African voters in urban areas. There is also a serious separatist movement in the Western Cape Province, the only province where Africans are in the minority.  For the ANC, waging a proxy war on Israel is a convenient diversion from its increasingly poor record of government. Most of South Africa’s 75,000 Jews vote for the DA, so the ANC loses no votes by posturing as Hamas’s best friend. (An official Hamas delegation was welcomed to South Africa in December.) The EFF is a militant enemy of Israel, and proposes sending arms to Hamas, so ramping up the anti-Israel’s rhetoric helps the ANC shore up its left flank.




The unseen hand in this situation is the South African Communist Party (SACP). With a reported 300,000 members, the SACP is the second-largest non-ruling communist party in the world (after Brazil’s). The ANC and the SACP have been linked since the 1930s. Mandela, Mbeki and Zuma were all SACP members at various times. (Ramaphosa describes himself as a "strong socialist" but has never been an SACP member.)




The SACP does not contest elections. Instead, it is embedded in the ANC, as part of the “Triple Alliance” of the ANC, the SACP, and the Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU). Since the SACP effectively controls COSATU (COSATU president Zingiswa Losi is a member of the SACP Central Committee), two of the three legs of the Triple Alliance are made up of communists.
Since the mainstream ANC is riddled with factionalism, cronyism and corruption, the SACP is much the most coherent and ideologically disciplined part of the government, and is disproportionately represented in the ANC’s National Assembly block and in Ramaphosa’s government. The current Deputy President, Paul Mashatile, has been a party member. Blade Nzimande, SACP National Chairperson, is Minister for Higher Education. Pravin Gordhan is Minister for Public Enterprises, and so on.




So it is not surprising that the SACP’s hardline hostility to Israel (the SACP “condemns in the strongest terms possible the apartheid regime of Israel, its racist attitude and atrocities”) is reflected in the rhetoric and practice of the ANC government, particularly at election time. Very few South Africans know or care much about Israel – they care much more about why, after 30 years of ANC rule, they are unemployed and poorly housed and without reliable electricity. But the ANC hopes and expects that at least some of them will be distracted from their country’s problems and the ANC’s failings by a paper war against a distant enemy – this tactic has after all worked for every Arab dictator from Nasser to Assad.

And then there is the USS Liberty incident, and of course the Jonathan Pollard spying.

Which is why I have ZERO interest in providing any support. Whatsoever.  To Israel.

I'm lapsed Catholic but if i personally rank the world's religions, Buddhism is at the top and Islam and BJP-style Hinduism... isn't

Though technically not Israel but is connected to the war, three Georgia based US Army soldiers were killed in Jordan by a drone.

I think it's about time to call for Turkey to withdraw from Occupied Anatolia and Occupied Constantinople (not to mention Occupied Cyprus), and to be held accountable for its oppression of (among others) Greeks and Armenians since the Battle of Manzikert in 1071. I look forward to Turkey facing charges of genocide (crimes which have been amply documented) at the International Court of Justice.


https://picshack.net/ib/0LL8P4cNKA.jpg

The Biden Administration has decided to sanction West Bank “settlers” who attack Palestinian residents.

Naturally and predictably, people are saying this is “antisemitic”.

The “antisemitic” label is getting kinda old. No… just because somebody disagrees with Israel does not make them antisemitic. Just antiIsraeli. It’s time to stop milking “Holocaust guilt”.

The Biden Administration has decided to sanction West Bank “settlers” who attack Palestinian residents.

Naturally and predictably, people are saying this is “antisemitic”.

The “antisemitic” label is getting kinda old. No… just because somebody disagrees with Israel does not make them antisemitic. Just antiIsraeli. It’s time to stop milking “Holocaust guilt”.




At this point in the discussion the point is always raised that hostility to Israel, and even the assertion that Israel has no right to exist – in other words anti-Zionism – is not the same thing as anti-Semitism, which is hostility to Jews as Jews, not to Israel as a state. Are there not Jews who hold anti-Zionist views (it is said), and does this not prove that anti-Zionism is not the same as anti-Semitism?


As a proposition in logic, that is undeniable. There are many Jews who reject Zionism, although they are a small proportion of all the Jews in the world. They include both leftist secular intellectuals such as Shlomo Sand and Noam Chomsky, and some ultra-Orthodox sects such as Satmar, which reject secular Zionism as blasphemous. Therefore it cannot be asserted that to be an anti-Zionist is also, automatically, to be an anti-Semite.


But in practice this argument doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny. For the great majority of the world’s Jews, now and throughout history, identification with the Land of Israel as the historic homeland of the Jewish people, and the belief that the Jews should and will return there, has been and is still central to their identity as Jews, and this is true of both religious and secular Jews. To deny the legitimacy of that identity and that aspiration is in effect an attack on the Jewish people, and is experienced as such by the great majority of Jews.

For the great majority of the world’s Jews, now and throughout history, identification with the Land of Israel as the historic homeland of the Jewish people, and the belief that the Jews should and will return there, has been and is still central to their identity as Jews, and this is true of both religious and secular Jews. To deny the legitimacy of that identity and that aspiration is in effect an attack on the Jewish people, and is experienced as such by the great majority of Jews.


And so those people should grow up and get a life. The concept that Israel is some sort of special “Jewish state” makes no more sense than saying that America is a “Christian state”. It is a racist approach to life that somehow a plot of land is an entitlement, and somehow justification for a lifelong bitching and moaning about antisemitism. Israel has been milking Holocaust Guilt for the past 80 years. Hey Israel… Americans did not conduct the Holocaust, so spread your antisemitism accusations elsewhere. Go bitch at Germans.

I’m tired of it. If Israel wants to kick Palestinian butt, they are certainly free to do so and they do not need America’s finances or military assets. Same goes for the Arabs.

The entire situation in the Middle East is decidedly the antithesis of American values, and our government needs to grow up and stop being used by the tribes over there (including Jewish, Islamic, and Christian) who want to keep drawing us into their centuries-old feud.

"Ceasefire now! means sllowing Hamas to regroup and rebuild. why is mo one demanding they surrender, disarm and dissolve themselves, preferably forever? And the "friends of Palestine" need to admit that the ordinary Palestine people will suffer under any plausible locally-run state whether it's Fatah or Hamas/Islamic Jihad/Hezbollah. Forcing Egypt to open *their* border crossing would be less unjust than parroting "the Gaza authorities" = who are freaking HAMAS!

And then there is the USS Liberty incident, and of course the Jonathan Pollard spying.

Which is why I have ZERO interest in providing any support. Whatsoever.  To Israel.


We should sanction the hell out of Israel, Biden has applied some sanctions against Israeli settlers for the first time which is a good step but the entire government/military needs to be sanctioned.

Australia, along with a number of other Western democracies, has suspended funding for the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), following the revelation that UNRWA employees took part in the 7 October attacks on Israel, in which 1,200 people were murdered. Of course, UNRWA's complicity with Palestinian terrorism was not really a revelation, since it has been exposed many times. But the atrocities committed on 7 October seem, at last, to have forced Western governments to recognise this unwelcome fact.


This announcement has led to a predictable chorus from the UN and pro-Palestinian NGOs that defunding UNRWA will lead to a cut-off of foreign aid to the people of Gaza. This is a very dishonest exercise, as those indulging in it must surely know. UNRWA is not a humanitarian organisation. It is the executive arm of the anti-Israel majority of member states of the United Nations. In practice, it is under the control of the various Palestinian factions. In Gaza it is in effect an agency of Hamas, and is deeply implicated in its crimes.
UNRWA was founded in 1949 by the UN General Assembly. Its mission was to provide relief to all refugees resulting from the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. In 1952 Israel assumed responsibility for Jewish refugees, leaving UNRWA responsible only for the Arabs who were displaced by that conflict, both inside the territory of the former Mandate Palestine (in the West Bank and Gaza), and outside the Mandate's borders (in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria).


It is worth recalling the background to the "Palestinian refugee problem." In 1947 the General Assembly voted to partition Mandate Palestine into two states, a Jewish state and an Arab state, with Jerusalem and Bethlehem remaining under international control. The Jewish leadership accepted the partition plan, the Arab leadership, backed by all the Arab states, rejected it, and launched a war to drive the Jews out. The Arab armies were defeated, and about 700,000 Arabs became refugees. Some of these were expelled by the Israelis, some fled on the advice of their leaders, and others fled simply to escape the fighting.


The creation of a specialised agency to provide relief to these refugees made some sense in 1949. But the creation of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) in 1950 rendered UNRWA redundant, and its functions should have been taken over by the UNHCR. This was not done, for entirely political reasons. UNRWA continued to operate at the insistence of what was by then a permanent majority at the UN hostile to Israel, consisting of an opportunistic alliance of the Soviet bloc and the Muslim world. The Palestinian refugees and their offspring were to be held, in effect as hostages, in perpetuity, as a weapon to be used against Israel, and UNRWA was to be their keeper.


Another long-forgotten fact is that UNRWA's charter defines a Palestinian as any person of Arab descent who had been living in Mandate Palestine for two years before the 1948 war, as well as all their male-line descendants. This means that a large number of people who migrated to Mandate Palestine from Transjordan, Egypt and other Arab countries, attracted by the economic opportunities provided by Jewish investment and British administration, were classed as Palestinians even though they had no actual Palestinian ancestry. Their descendants are still classed as Palestinian refugees.


Now, 75 years after the creation of UNRWA, nearly all of the original 700,000 refugees are dead. Mahmoud Abbas, the self-styled and unelected president of the "State of Palestine," who was born in Safed in 1935 and is now 89, is among the last of that generation. Nearly all of those now officially classed as Palestinian refugees are the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the 1949 refugees.


These descendants now number more than 5 million, almost none of whom have ever set foot in what is now Israel. Of these, 1.2 million live in Gaza and 770,000 live in the West Bank. Another 2.1 million live in Jordan, 530,000 in Syria and 450,000 in Lebanon (many of those in Syria fled to Jordan or Lebanon during the Syrian civil war).


It needs to be stressed how unique this situation is. No other refugee population in the world contains almost no actual refugees: that is, people who have fled or been forced from their homes. Nearly all of the official Palestinian refugees live where they were born, and where in most cases their parents were born. The decision to continue to class them, even to the fourth generation, as refugees was and remains a political choice made by the majority bloc at the UN.


What was the alternative? It was obvious by the mid 1950s that Israel was not going to allow the Arabs who left its territory in 1949 to return, and the 1956 and 1967 wars made it clear that Israel could not be coerced into doing so. At that point efforts to resettle the refugees should have begun. The obvious place to resettle them was and still is Jordan, which was originally the eastern half of Mandate Palestine and which has a population of majority Palestinian descent. Jordan is an artificial creation ruled by a dynasty imported from the Hejaz and imposed by the British. It could very easily have been redesignated as Palestine, and still could be.


Let us take the most obvious analogy from the same period of history. At the end of World War II some 12 to 15 million Germans were expelled from their homes in eastern Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia. Today their descendants have been successfully integrated into German society. Although many retain their cultural identity as Pomeranians or Sudetenlanders, there is no agitation whatever to reverse the postwar territorial settlement.


It will be argued that the resettlement of the German refugees was possible only because there was still a German state for them to be resettled in: they were only being resettled from one part of Germany to another. But this ignores the fact that Germany only became a united country in 1871, and that in 1945 it was a much less homogenous country than it is today. There were wide differences between, for example, East Prussians and Bavarians. They spoke different dialects, dressed differently and (most importantly) went to different churches. For a Protestant East Prussian refugee in 1945, Catholic Bavaria was in many ways a foreign country.


By contrast, despite recent efforts to create a separate Palestinian cultural identity ("Palestine music", "Palestinian food"), there is very little difference between a Palestinian born in Jaffa or Nablus and a Jordanian born in Amman. They are mostly Sunni Muslims and they speak the same Shami or Levantine dialect of Arabic (as do most Lebanese and Syrians). If the Palestinian refugees had been resettled in Jordan in the 1950s or 1960s, the "Palestinian question" in its current form would not exist. Today, after decades of nationalist propaganda (inculcated in UNRWA schools), this would be much more difficult, but not impossible.


(In fact, as everyone familiar with the issue knows, most Palestinians, wherever they live, would very happily be resettled, provided they could be resettled in the United States or Western Europe. In the current political climate, after 50 years of Palestinian terrorism, that's not very likely, although several hundred thousand Palestinians have emigrated from both Gaza and the West Bank over the past 20 years, mainly to Western Europe or Canada. Israel has quietly facilitated this exodus.)


Today UNRWA has more than 30,000 employees, nearly all of them Palestinians, to manage these 5 million official refugees. (By contrast, the UNHCR, which is responsible for the welfare of more than 20 million real refugees, has 18,000 employees.) While this is represented as "empowering refugees," what it means in practice is that UNRWA has come under the control of the Palestinian political factions to whom these employees owe their first loyalty: primarily Fatah in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza.
UNRWA provides a variety of social services to the officially designated Palestinian refugees, most of whom live in what are usually described as refugee camps, but are in fact sizeable towns.


This arrangement relieves Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, as well as the Palestinian Authority, of the need to provide services to these communities. It also serves to prevent the Palestinians from integrating into the societies of their host countries, and freezes them into the status of permanent, hereditary refugees, which suits the political agenda of the anti-Israel majority at the UN.


Most notably, UNRWA operates school systems in all the Palestinian localities. Before the current conflict, these schools served about 500,000 students. They are staffed entirely by Palestinians, most of whom are members or supporters of the various Palestinian political factions such as Fatah and Hamas. This is most obviously true in Gaza, where UNRWA provides schools for the large majority of the territory's students, and where Hamas has had complete control of the system since its seizure of power in 2007. It has been claimed that all of the perpetrators of the 7 October attacks on Israel were graduates of UNRWA schools. That cannot be proved, but it is likely that the great majority were.


What is undeniably true is that UNRWA schools have inculcated into several generations of Palestinian youth a visceral hatred of Israelis, Zionists and Jews. They have drawn no distinction between these three categories, which is why the Hamas attackers cheerfully murdered Israeli peace activists such as Vivian Silver. Someone also taught these young Palestinians that the gleeful murder, torture and rape of Israeli Jews is an approved form of "armed struggle" against the Zionist occupiers. If it wasn't UNRWA schools, who was it?


UNRWA's Palestinian employees also get to spend most of UNRWA's $US1.1 billion annual budget. It is a sad fact that all foreign aid programmes are riddled with corruption and embezzlement. In programmes which transfer large amounts of money from rich donors to very poor recipients, this is understandable. In the case of UNRWA, however, the principal motive for diversion of aid money is not survival, or even personal enrichment (although as the opulent mansions of the Fatah and Hamas leadership testify, that is certainly a factor). The motive is mainly military and political.


Both Fatah and Hamas have stolen huge amounts of foreign aid over recent decades, and much of that money has passed through the hands of UNRWA officials before it has been used to buy weapons, build missile sites, dig tunnels and spread antisemitic propaganda. UN officials, most of them supporters of the Palestinian cause, have made no effort to police this, and the donor countries, particularly in Europe, have not been much better. No-one wants to be called an Islamophobe or (even worse) a Zionist for trying to prevent the theft of taxpayer money to fund warfare against Israel.


It should be noted in passing that the great majority of UNRWA's funding comes from Western countries. Before the current conflict, the largest donors were the United States, the European Union, Germany, Britain and Sweden. The EU and its member states together provided over 40% of UNRWA's funds, while the United States provided 29%. The only Arab states to make significant contributions were Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar, although between them they gave less than Sweden. China, India and Russia gave only token amounts, Iran gave nothing. Australia gave $20 million a year.


What this means in effect is that Western taxpayers, including you, have been forking out more than a billion dollars a year to keep 5 million Palestinians penned up in refugee camps in perpetuity, to be used as a weapon in the campaign of the anti-Israel (and anti-Western) majority bloc at the UN to destroy Israel and either kill or drive into exile the 7 million Jews who live there. And all this to create another poor, corrupt, despotic Arab state, run either by the gangsters of Fatah or the religious fanatics of Hamas.


The 7 October attack on Israel and the accompanying atrocities have brought all these matters to a head. Hamas of course knew that the attack would provoke an immediate and massive Israeli response, but they seem to have underestimated the depth of the anger and revulsion that the behaviour of their "fighters" would provoke, not only in Israel but in most of the Western world. They appear not to have anticipated that the attack would force Western governments to acknowledge what they knew all along – that UNRWA has long ago been captured by the Palestinian factions, and that Hamas has been funding its sophisticated military infrastructure in Gaza using Western taxpayer money funnelled to them by UNRWA.


The war between Israel and Hamas is far from over. For domestic political reasons, the Biden administration is pressuring Prime Minister Netanyahu to accept some sort of compromise "peace" deal short of the complete defeat of Hamas. But Netanyahu's political situation dictates that he must resist this pressure: if he accepts a deal that amounts to a Hamas victory, he will not only lose office, he will face a harsh judgement from an unforgiving Israeli public. This is why the latest Hamas proposal, for a ceasefire, an Israeli military withdrawal and the release of hundreds of convicted Palestinian terrorists, in exchange only for the release of the remaining Israeli (and other) hostages, has not the slightest chance of acceptance. Israel's terms will be very different: the release of the hostages, the removal of Hamas from political and military power in Gaza, and an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza only when control can be safely transferred to some sort of international authority.


Israel will probably also insist that UNRWA be expelled from Gaza – certainly its control of the education system must end. More broadly, the governments of the Western world – who are paying UNRWA's bills – must now accept that its continued existence is a serious obstacle to any long-term settlement of the Israel-Palestine conflict. It should be disbanded and its functions transferred to agencies not under Palestinian control. It is very unlikely that the anti-Israel majority at the UN will agree to this, but if the Western governments permanently cut off UNRWA's funding, and direct their humanitarian aid to the Palestinians elsewhere, its ability to do further harm will be greatly reduced.

Tens of thousands of people are taking part in a pro-Palestinian march in central London. The Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC) march is calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Israel-Gaza war. Saturday's march will be the first protest to go near the Israeli embassy in west London since a static rally in October.

American and European taxpayers should not be providing funds to either Israel or the Palestinians. Both sides have shown over the decades little regard for humanity or undertaken any meaningful steps to achieve peace. Let them sort it out. Foreign money fixes nothing and just funds the continuing mayhem.

American involvement in the Middle East has caused us nothing but grief. Enough.

Who was it who said that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity? Abbas and Shtayyeh definitely missed the opportunity to disavow and discredit Hamas and “armed resistance” at the same time, which Hamas’s aggression presented to them.


Even before the full scale of Hamas’s attack had become apparent, it was completely obvious that such an unprecedented attack would result in an equally unprecedented and devastating response by Israel of a magnitude not seen in decades. Hamas had stung the sleeping dragon so painfully that it awoke with a furious roar, spouting a fiery breath of destruction around him.


Pointing out the folly of what Hamas has done may not have been very popular on 7 October itself, when Palestinians were busy celebrating that “Gaza just broke out of prison”, but could have made Abbas seem reasonable, both to his own people and Israel, in the weeks and months to come, when it became clear what the actual result of Hamas attack was going to be.


Because even if brainwashed by decades of “resistance” propaganda, it doesn’t take a lot of effort to realize that starting a gunfight when you only have a knife is not the wisest of ideas.


(Should that be rephrased as bringing an RPG to an air campaign?)


By condemning Hamas’s attack, he could also have set up Hamas as the perfect scape goat for any lack of progress, at the same time recalibrate the unrealistic expectations he and his predecessor had created over the years, and paint his opponents as a threat not only to himself, but to the survival of his people.


Gaza razed to the ground? Hamas’s fault, because they provoked the dragon.


Economic crisis in the West Bank? Hamas’s fault, because they provoked the dragon.


Settler violence? Hamas’s fault, because they provoked the dragon.


“Right of return” gone forever? Hamas’s fault, because they provoked the dragon.


Palestinian statheood set back for decades? Hamas’s fault, because they provoked the dragon.


Inevitable territorial concessions during future negations with Israel? Hamas’s fault, because they provoked the dragon.


Better keep your distance from Hamas and their “resistance” and follow the cautious guidance of himself instead, if you don’t want things to get even worse.


Remember, it’s not defeatism, when you’ve actually been defeated.


He could have offered his condolences to the victims of Hamas terror and to Israel. He could have been honest about that there were zero chances to convince Israel to not reconquer Gaza and then demonstrably worked towards alleviating the outcome of the process, cooperating with Israel and Egypt for evacuation plans, raise aid from international donors, showing himself as the one who actually can achieve something, while Hamas wastes Palestinian lives and livelihoods and prospects on unrealistic aspirations.


He could have upped the pressure on Hamas by calling on them to surrender, to not waste any more Palestinian lives, and then blame Hamas for the following losses for failing to follow his advice.


Whether it would be enough to overcome the well-deserved unpopularity he has gained among his people over the last two decades, is impossible to say, but at the very least, it could have demonstrated the importance of having a more reasonable alternative than Hamas to those of his people whose life aspiration isn’t to die as a “martyr” for a hopeless cause.


But alas, instead he chose to accuse Israel of “aggression”, because its people weren’t willing to let themselves get slaughtered without a fight and put Palestinian unity against their external enemy Israel over common sense. “And the rest is history”, as future historians will likely say.

UK PM Rishi Sunak says calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza now, without a plan for a permanent solution, is "not in anyone's interest"

The "peace movement" likes to leave out what an "immediate and permanent ceasefire" would actually lead to with the Islamists thus able to regroup and rebuild. They also leave out that the attack on Dresden was not the only attack that day and it was intended to help the Soviet forces and that Dresden was a major logistical hub. They also leave out that the same was true of Hiroshima and that Little Boy's epicenter was a half-mile from the HQ of the IJA's Southern Command and which would have been a key coordinator in the resistance to Olympic and Coronet.

They also leave out that the same was true of Hiroshima and that Little Boy's epicenter was a half-mile from the HQ of the IJA's Southern Command and which would have been a key coordinator in the resistance to Olympic and Coronet.

Why not just cut to the chase and drop a nuke on Gasa?

"PA prime minister: We’re ready for unity with Hamas, world needs to forget October 7" (on timesofisrael.com)

His words say he wants an end to the occupation, but his actions say he wants to see Jenin and Ramallah in ruins too. My expectations were already low, but this an amazing inability to read the room from him. Can he be really so incompetent to belief that making the worst Jew-murderers since Adolf Hitler part of the official Palestinian government can have any positive outcomes for the Palestinians?

I get that the unpopular Abbas government is under domestic pressure from hardliners, but right now such considerations almost feel like escapism and his request that everybody please forget 7 October further fuels that impression. It makes him seem completely oblivious to how much Hamas's atrocities (and the reaction to it from Palestinians worldwide, including himself) have irreversible shaped the attitudes towards the Palestinian side not only in Israel but in many parts of the world. Does he really think Israel will tolerate a Hamas-run West Bank, after it has shown such determination to completely root out Hamas from Gaza, at whatever cost it takes?

The astonishing lack of awareness displayed by Shtayyeh fits recent reports that Sinwar was surprised by the extent of Israel's response to his attack:

From an article at news.sky.com:

Esmat Mansour said last year's cross-border raid was supposed to be a strategic operation designed to lift the Israeli siege on the territory, release Sinwar's friends from prison, and make him a "leader of the Palestinian people".

But the calculations "didn't go as planned", the reaction of the Israelis was "uncontrolled, without any justification", and "now we have this result", he explained.



He claimed that if Sinwar knew what the consequences of the assault would be, he "would never have planned an operation this way".


Reminder that everything coming from Gaza should be treated with a healthy dose of skepticism, but if true it reveals an astonishing level of violation of the old rule of warfare "know your enemy". To really think that Israel would fold in response to even an ordinary mass casualty terror attack, much less the orgy of rape and sadistic violence which Hamas has committed on 7 October (and continues to inflict on the poor hostages), suggests a scary level of delusion.

If confirmed, it can also be seen as a failure of deterrence from Israel's side. This would suggest that any restraint in fighting Hamas would be counterproductive, that in order to restore deterrence towards its enemies, Israel has to demonstrate that it is willing to hit back hard with overwhelming force and willing to cause massive damage on them. Unnecessary, to say, it will also further kill the peace process, if it hasn't been already completely dead, if Israel has to come to the conclusion that any olive branch will be interpreted as a sign of weakness and an invitation to escalate.

Article, again: "Mansour, who has been in prison with Sinwar, said the Hamas leader had "wanted to make a change".


Well, Sinwar, definitely succeeded with making a change, even if Shtayyeh is still in denial about it. And I'm not talking about the fact that he caused the death of almost 30,000 of his fellow Palestinians (by his own count) and brought about the destruction of some of the largest Palestinian cities.

Those are pretty grim news for any Palestinians in the West Bank.