The 20s so far feels like the late 10s with COVID tacked onto it. I haven't seen any change in tech(PS5/XSEX came out but theres fu** all games for it until '22 or later and the stock is extremely limited), societal views or pop culture. Politics changed with huge BLM riots, COVID and Biden in office I guess. But then again, pre-COVID I didn't go out much so maybe that's why it doesn't feel too different for me.

What do you guys think? Did the 20s start on time?

How do the early 20s feel like the late '10s? Are you serious? This era is nothing like the late '10s complete opposite... New president, COVID-19, new artists (from 2019), and more... This year feels NOTHING like 2018. 

How do the early 20s feel like the late '10s? Are you serious? This era is nothing like the late '10s complete opposite... New president, COVID-19, new artists (from 2019), and more... This year feels NOTHING like 2018.


Well mainly to me because pop culture, tech and societal views hasn't changed. At least I havent seen much of a change. Although world events have changed a lot with COVID.

Im not saying the early 20s is objectively an extension of the late 10s. Just to me it doesn't feel that different.

Well mainly to me because pop culture, tech and societal views hasn't changed. At least I havent seen much of a change. Although world events have changed a lot with COVID.

Im not saying the early 20s is objectively an extension of the late 10s. Just to me it doesn't feel that different.

Well pop culture will never change for you then because Drake will still be making hits in 2029 most likely. That's not how we measure change anymore. Almost everyone agrees COVID is what brought us into a new decade and that the 2010s feel otherworldly for that exact reason. You don't see maskless group photos anymore, you see masks on the ground on the streets, you see social distancing lineups , you see so many things that were not heard of in the late 2010s.

Also, speaking of pop culture, The Mandelorian, Billie Eilish, Tik Tok did not exist in 2018... These trends all started in 2019. Which means we are in another era culturally as well. For pop culture it started in 2019 and for everything else 2020.

How exactly has tech not changed? Foldable phones were still Sci-Fi in 2018...

How exactly has tech not changed? Foldable phones were still Sci-Fi in 2018...


Flip phones were the original foldable phones.  ;D  ;D

Also, speaking of pop culture, The Mandelorian, Billie Eilish, Tik Tok did not exist in 2018... These trends all started in 2019. Which means we are in another era culturally as well. For pop culture it started in 2019 and for everything else 2020.

How exactly has tech not changed? Foldable phones were still Sci-Fi in 2018...


New pop stars, social media platforms and shows start all the time. And that's 2019 not 2020/2021.

Foldable phones isn't revolutionary like the Iphone or Ipad was. It's just a fancy visual/convenience thing which will turn out to be a fad.

New pop stars, social media platforms and shows start all the time. And that's 2019 not 2020/2021.

Foldable phones isn't revolutionary like the Iphone or Ipad was. It's just a fancy visual/convenience thing which will turn out to be a fad.

If they started in 2019, how is it similar to 2018 then?

If they started in 2019, how is it similar to 2018 then?


One musician, one TV show and one social media platform which rips off Vine doesn't mean a year can't be similar to the previous year.

I completely agree, without the pandemic, I'm sure things wouldn't be very different from post 2017. Bascially 2020 and 2021 are really just the late 2010s plus the pandemic. Yes, the pandemic is a gigantic event that will cause cultural change but I don't think the long term effects have come in to play, whatever short term, temporary implementations that have been put in place due to the pandemic will mostly be gone by the time it's over, which is already underway. Sure there were a few new things introduced as the years went on. But, I don't think we'll see the change the covid19 had on pop culture, until it finally comes to an end, which will be around the beginning of 2022. That's when we'll see the 20s start to create their own identity. Just like how 911 killed the 90s, it's not like the pop culture immediately became 2000s pop culture. It takes a while for the pop culture landscape to adjust to recent events. Aside from the masks, people still dress like it's pre 2020, people still listen to trap music and mumble rap, race issues and problems with the police are still a thing, as well as cancel culture. Biden may be president now, but he's only been for 3 months, thats not enough time to see a noticeable difference. Music, fashion and politics are the 3 biggest indicators of pop culture, and if that isn't noticeably different then I certainly don't think the landscape has changed.  My age group are the ones at the forefront of it, so I would know if things have changed or not based off the way they actions.

On a different note I can see some changes coming in, but they haven't become main stream yet. Given enough time the accumulation of these changes will go on to define the 2020s.

I completely agree, without the pandemic, I'm sure things wouldn't be very different from post 2017. Bascially 2020 and 2021 are really just the late 2010s plus the pandemic. Yes, the pandemic is a gigantic event that will cause cultural change but I don't think the long term effects have come in to play, whatever short term, temporary implementations that have been put in place due to the pandemic will mostly be gone by the time it's over, which is already underway. Sure there were a few new things introduced as the years went on. But, I don't think we'll see the change the covid19 had on pop culture, until it finally comes to an end, which will be around the beginning of 2022. That's when we'll see the 20s start to create their own identity. Just like how 911 killed the 90s, it's not like the pop culture immediately became 2000s pop culture. It takes a while for the pop culture landscape to adjust to recent events. Aside from the masks, people still dress like it's pre 2020, people still listen to trap music and mumble rap, race issues and problems with the police are still a thing, as well as cancel culture. Biden may be president now, but he's only been for 3 months, thats not enough time to see a noticeable difference. Music, fashion and politics are the 3 biggest indicators of pop culture, and if that isn't noticeably different then I certainly don't think the landscape has changed.  My age group are the ones at the forefront of it, so I would know if things have changed or not based off the way they actions.

On a different note I can see some changes coming in, but they haven't become main stream yet. Given enough time the accumulation of these changes will go on to define the 2020s.


Before the pandemic I was hoping and predicting that 2021 would be a year of change. In a way it feels different from 2020 even with the pandemic still going on. One thing that's different is we have Biden instead of Trump so there's a vibe of optimism with the vaccine rollouts, economic recovery, and Derek Chauvin has been convicted for the murder of George Floyd. It's not the doom and gloom vibe that 2020 had.

I was going to start a thread on this but I'll just add to this one. I feel that 2020 was its own single year era. It doesn't belong with the late 2010's, but it also doesn't belong with 2021-2024 (estimated end) vibe either. I think people are purposely setting 2020 aside and isolating it, quarantining it like it was a virus itself.

I completely agree, without the pandemic, I'm sure things wouldn't be very different from post 2017. Bascially 2020 and 2021 are really just the late 2010s plus the pandemic. Yes, the pandemic is a gigantic event that will cause cultural change but I don't think the long term effects have come in to play, whatever short term, temporary implementations that have been put in place due to the pandemic will mostly be gone by the time it's over, which is already underway. Sure there were a few new things introduced as the years went on. But, I don't think we'll see the change the covid19 had on pop culture, until it finally comes to an end, which will be around the beginning of 2022. That's when we'll see the 20s start to create their own identity. Just like how 911 killed the 90s, it's not like the pop culture immediately became 2000s pop culture. It takes a while for the pop culture landscape to adjust to recent events. Aside from the masks, people still dress like it's pre 2020, people still listen to trap music and mumble rap, race issues and problems with the police are still a thing, as well as cancel culture. Biden may be president now, but he's only been for 3 months, thats not enough time to see a noticeable difference. Music, fashion and politics are the 3 biggest indicators of pop culture, and if that isn't noticeably different then I certainly don't think the landscape has changed.  My age group are the ones at the forefront of it, so I would know if things have changed or not based off the way they actions.

On a different note I can see some changes coming in, but they haven't become main stream yet. Given enough time the accumulation of these changes will go on to define the 2020s.


My thoughts exactly, I don't get why people act like it's a entirely different world out here, yeah it's not exactly completely the same with the pandemic and all, but pop culture wise, technology wise it's really just about the same, just with masks.  I'm betting 2022-2023-2024 we might start seeing more changes into the decade.

For pop culture the new decade started in 2019.

For everything else, it started in 2020.

You guys will be saying we're not in a new decade even in 2029 despite everything because Drake and Rihanna will still be making hits. You guys don't understand how shifts work.

For pop culture the new decade started in 2019.

For everything else, it started in 2020.

You guys will be saying we're not in a new decade even in 2029 despite everything because Drake and Rihanna will still be making hits. You guys don't understand how shifts work.


I don't get how a new pop singer and a somewhat niche TV show makes '19 the start of 20s pop culture. TikTok? Ok fine, i'll admit that is a big change in pop culture even though it rehashes Vine from 2013. But apart from that there has been hardly any meaningful changes that year.

>You guys will be saying we're not in a new decade even in 2029 despite everything because Drake and Rihanna will still be making hits. You guys don't understand how shifts work.

The actual artists themselves aren't as important as the dominant genre and style of music when it comes to cultural shifts. Speaking of music, 2019 is hardly different from music released in the mid 10s.

I don't get how a new pop singer and a somewhat niche TV show makes '19 the start of 20s pop culture. TikTok? Ok fine, i'll admit that is a big change in pop culture even though it rehashes Vine from 2013. But apart from that there has been hardly any meaningful changes that year.

>You guys will be saying we're not in a new decade even in 2029 despite everything because Drake and Rihanna will still be making hits. You guys don't understand how shifts work.

The actual artists themselves aren't as important as the dominant genre and style of music when it comes to cultural shifts. Speaking of music, 2019 is hardly different from music released in the mid 10s.

You really think the style of music will change? We're not in the 20th century anymore where that happens dramatically. Every era is an incremental update from the past. We don't measure new eras based on music that's ridiculous. You step outside and see we are in a new era given the world has changed, Businesses operate differently, and everyone is wearing masks... That is not a small thing. It will be 2025 and you guys will still say we're in the 2010s because there's a song on the radio utilizing trap beats... That's not how it works. We are in a completely different era and decade now. That was apperently when the entire world changed in 2020...

So having a new president Biden isn't enough for you either?

And besides, pop culture actually DID change in 2019. Like I said, 2019 marked the start of the era in pop culture (Tik Tok, Billie Eilish, The Mandelorean, end of Star Wars trilogy, end of Game of Thrones). These are popular now and were not popular in 2018... I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of stuff and artists that debuted in 2019 as well.

The Samsung Z Flip, Motorola Razr, Samsung Z Fold 2 all came out in 2020 and the average person can pick one up with their cell provider. Foldable phones were still a pipe dream in 2018...

And as mentioned before, the thing that changed how the entire world functions... The PANDEMIC. The most biggest change of all. The change that actually CONFIRMS we are in an entirely different era and decade.

All of these things aren't enough for you? I don't know what to say then. Lol there are probably even more things I am missing actually.



Update: YES more new artists that were unheard of in 2018 that are HUGE right now: Lizzo, Kid Loari, 24kGoldn, Megan Thee Stallion, Doja Cat, Olivia Rodrigo, and more.

In 2018 all you heard was TRAP. Now music is a diverse mix of trap, retro pop, punk rap, and dark pop / indie.

YES more new artists that were unheard of in 2018 that are HUGE right now: Lizzo, Kid Loari, 24kGoldn, Megan Thee Stallion, Doja Cat, Olivia Rodrigo, and more.

In 2018 all you heard was TRAP. Now music is a diverse mix of trap, retro pop, punk rap, and dark pop / indie.
Not to mention the top 2 songs on the Billboard Hot 100 right now are by artists who were unheard of in 2018, and incorporate styles that you wouldn't really hear charting in 2018.

You really think the style of music will change? We're not in the 20th century anymore where that happens dramatically. Every era is an incremental update from the past. We don't measure new eras based on music that's ridiculous. You step outside and see we are in a new era given the world has changed, Businesses operate differently, and everyone is wearing masks... That is not a small thing. It will be 2025 and you guys will still say we're in the 2010s because there's a song on the radio utilizing trap beats... That's not how it works. We are in a completely different era and decade now. That was apperently when the entire world changed in 2020...

So having a new president Biden isn't enough for you either?

And besides, pop culture actually DID change in 2019. Like I said, 2019 marked the start of the era in pop culture (Tik Tok, Billie Eilish, The Mandelorean, end of Star Wars trilogy, end of Game of Thrones). These are popular now and were not popular in 2018... I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of stuff and artists that debuted in 2019 as well.

The Samsung Z Flip, Motorola Razr, Samsung Z Fold 2 all came out in 2020 and the average person can pick one up with their cell provider. Foldable phones were still a pipe dream in 2018...

And as mentioned before, the thing that changed how the entire world functions... The PANDEMIC. The most biggest change of all. The change that actually CONFIRMS we are in an entirely different era and decade.

All of these things aren't enough for you? I don't know what to say then. Lol there are probably even more things I am missing actually.



Update: YES more new artists that were unheard of in 2018 that are HUGE right now: Lizzo, Kid Loari, 24kGoldn, Megan Thee Stallion, Doja Cat, Olivia Rodrigo, and more.

In 2018 all you heard was TRAP. Now music is a diverse mix of trap, retro pop, punk rap, and dark pop / indie.


Yeah, they can't really create a brand new genre of music. Not like last century when they created jazz, then rock, and then pop and rap. Now every thing is a variant of rap and synth pop. That's why in this century it seems like things haven't changed that much musically, at least not compared to going from the disco 70's to the new wave 80's, and then the grunge/alternative rock of the 90's.

In 2018 all you heard was TRAP. Now music is a diverse mix of trap, retro pop, punk rap, and dark pop / indie.


It's not distinctly different, retro pop was popular in the 2000s, have you not heard of Amy Winehouse, there was an entire garage rock revival in the early 2000s, Madonna made that retro disco album, Kylie Minogue was doing retro disco and her song, "Love at First Sight" was hugely popular in 2002, I can go on and on.

As for "punk rap" or rock rap, that's been done since the '80s, maybe with trap influences over the past 5-10 years. There's really nothing significant happening in music, there's not even any kind of new underground subcultures emerging, things have stagnated significantly.

Francis Fukuyama postulated in 1989 about the end of history, where liberal democracy was the developmental endpoint of sociopolitical change.
While the sociopolitical stasis he anticipated has not happened(yet) he might have been on to something if his focus was on stylistic changes in culture . 

Regardless of any little similarities one can find, I think the 2010s ended on a cultural level and it feels like a brand new decade right now.

My thoughts fluctuate on this particular topic a lot, but now I am leaning towards 2020 and early-late summer 2021 still having dominant late 2010s influences despite COVID. And like what GameXcaper said, the pandemic didn't exactly kill off the 2010s, but in my eyes, it's still a major cultural event with long-lasting repercussions. I do predict however, that when late 2021/early 2022 comes around, the pandemic would've mostly subsided (in developed countries, anyways), 9th gen will finally get underway with PS5 and Series S/X consoles being massively restocked, and pop culture will (hopefully) lean further 2020s than 2010s.

Regardless of any little similarities one can find, I think the 2010s ended on a cultural level and it feels like a brand new decade right now.


There was no unique cultural decade of the 2010s to leave from in the first place, it's like we've been a very long "decade" from 2000-present and it's never quite ended.

Imagine if the social/cultural upheaval of the 1960s never happened and by 1981 we were still wearing 1950s-like clothes, hairstyles, ect and the most popular music was still easy listening and doo wop, that is how much things have stagnated and people continue to be in complete denial.

There was no unique cultural decade of the 2010s to leave from in the first place, it's like we've been a very long "decade" from 2000-present and it's never quite ended.

Imagine if the social/cultural upheaval of the 1960s never happened and by 1981 we were still wearing 1950s-like clothes, hairstyles, ect and the most popular music was still easy listening and doo wop, that is how much things have stagnated and people continue to be in complete denial.


So smartphones, Web 2.0, wireless internet, 9/11, War on Terrorism, 2008 recession, Trump, EDM/Modern Electropop, HD, Flat screen TVs, Online gaming all changed nothing?

So smartphones, Web 2.0, wireless internet, 9/11, War on Terrorism, 2008 recession, Trump, EDM/Modern Electropop, HD, Flat screen TVs, Online gaming all changed nothing?


Stylistically speaking no, those things happened but didn't translate into new cultural forms, history has continued but culture has stagnated significantly. I contend the 21st century should have had it's own version of rock n roll or hip-hop by this point.

Kids are STILL walking around with sagging pants for christ sakes, most teenagers today dress like teenagers did during the late 1990s, don't you think that's strange, and it's not a revival, it's a continuation.

Even periods in the 19th century progressed faster than our modern cultural stasis, my example about an alternate 1981 with modified 1950s stylings is actually spot on, a perfect example. Notice with all those events and tech you mentioned there is no cultural counterpart, you might say EDM but that is just another '90s thing, it's just warmed over 1999-style vocal trance sounds.

Stylistically speaking no, those things happened but didn't translate into new cultural forms, history has continued but culture has stagnated significantly. I contend the 21st century should have had it's own version of rock n roll or hip-hop by this point.

Kids are STILL walking around with sagging pants for christ sakes, most teenagers today dress like teenagers did during the late 1990s, don't you think that's strange, and it's not a revival, it's a continuation.

Even periods in the 19th century progressed faster than our modern cultural stasis, my example about an alternate 1981 with modified 1950s stylings is actually spot on, a perfect example. Notice with all those events and tech you mentioned there is no cultural counterpart, you might say EDM but that is just another '90s thing, it's just warmed over 1999-style vocal trance sounds.




The difference between 2000 and 2019 is staggering. Especially the technology like smartphones and social media and it's impact on society. This doesn't make sense to me.

The difference between 2000 and 2019 is staggering. Especially the technology like smartphones and social media and it's impact on society. This doesn't make sense to me.
Check up on Moore's Law.

There was no unique cultural decade of the 2010s to leave from in the first place, it's like we've been a very long "decade" from 2000-present and it's never quite ended.

Imagine if the social/cultural upheaval of the 1960s never happened and by 1981 we were still wearing 1950s-like clothes, hairstyles, ect and the most popular music was still easy listening and doo wop, that is how much things have stagnated and people continue to be in complete denial.


People in the 1980s listened to rock, wore jeans and had curly hair which are all 1950s trends. You are just being selective.

People in the 1980s listened to rock, wore jeans and had curly hair which are all 1950s trends. You are just being selective.


Actually your argument isn't quite accurate. People went BACK to a more 1950s oriented thing in the 80s. It's not like it was one continuous thing from the 50s to the 80s. A little thing called the 60s happened inbetween, not to mention the 70s. There were TREMEDOUS upheavals in the  60s, but I don't have to tell you that. And even the 50s stuff in the 80s was a very updated version of it. The multitrack synthesized rock of the 80s was far different from the organic 1950s rock & roll generally recorded on 2 track. And the skinny tie, pointy glasses 50s influenced clothing styles of the 80s were an updated version of the 50s version that actually would have been out of place in the 50s itself. As for curly hair...some people just have that.

The difference between 2000 and 2019 is staggering. Especially the technology like smartphones and social media and it's impact on society. This doesn't make sense to me.


Again that's information technology(and Moore's law is expected to end soon).

No new cultural forms in the 21st century, can you name any?

I've gotten a lot of push back for even mentioning this, it seems many people(esp. younger people) are emotionally invested in the idea their childhood/developmental decades, which are the early 21st century, to be more culturally interesting/creative/vital than they actually are.

This cultural stasis set in around the late 1990s, I was a teenager then and when I looked at photos from the 1970s it might as well had been ancient history. My parents were in their 20s during that period, a lot changed for them in that short time from the 1950s to 1970s and I expected similar changes in my 20s.

When the clock counted down on New Year's eve 1999 my teenage self had all these expectations that the 21st century would be so futuristic musically, fashion-wise, ect. I remember my first few years on this very forum around 2004, 2005(as a guest) and people were already noticing this stasis then, if course a forum dedicated to pop culture would take notice.

The overall "look" and sounds of the late 1990s, 2000s, 2010s, and now 2020s are just not that differentiated from each other, there are refinements here and there but you have to really, really nitpick to find them. Most things people suggest like emo/pop punk, EDM, trap, electropop, ect. were firmly established by 2001, there was a time when they actually didn't exist at all.

Trap in particular is very emblematic of this cultural stasis, it's basically a strain of 1990s southern rap that became popular around 2003-2005. But this is offered as the sound of the 2010s, a sound that is 20 years old!

People in the 1980s listened to rock, wore jeans and had curly hair which are all 1950s trends. You are just being selective.


So people were listening to Public Enemy style rap in the 1950s?

You're trying to find enough continuities between the 1950s and 1980s(rock and jeans) to discredit my observations but you wouldn't find a 1950s era teenager listening to rap music or house because it truly didn't exist yet, but they existed in the 1980s and they are very, very different compared to 1950s music.

Actually your argument isn't quite accurate. People went BACK to a more 1950s oriented thing in the 80s. It's not like it was one continuous thing from the 50s to the 80s. A little thing called the 60s happened inbetween, not to mention the 70s. There were TREMEDOUS upheavals in the  60s, but I don't have to tell you that. And even the 50s stuff in the 80s was a very updated version of it. The multitrack synthesized rock of the 80s was far different from the organic 1950s rock & roll generally recorded on 2 track. And the skinny tie, pointy glasses 50s influenced clothing styles of the 80s were an updated version of the 50s version that actually would have been out of place in the 50s itself. As for curly hair...some people just have that.


Accuracy isn't my point because I was being facetious. "Nothing has changed since the 1990s because people listen to rap" is as equally a meaningless statement as "Nothing has changed since the 1950s because people listen to rock".

Again that's information technology(and Moore's law is expected to end soon).

No new cultural forms in the 21st century, can you name any?

I've gotten a lot of push back for even mentioning this, it seems many people(esp. younger people) are emotionally invested in the idea their childhood/developmental decades, which are the early 21st century, to be more culturally interesting/creative/vital than they actually are.

This cultural stasis set in around the late 1990s, I was a teenager then and when I looked at photos from the 1970s it might as well had been ancient history. My parents were in their 20s during that period, a lot changed for them in that short time from the 1950s to 1970s and I expected similar changes in my 20s.

When the clock counted down on New Year's eve 1999 my teenage self had all these expectations that the 21st century would be so futuristic musically, fashion-wise, ect. I remember my first few years on this very forum around 2004, 2005(as a guest) and people were already noticing this stasis then, if course a forum dedicated to pop culture would take notice.

The overall "look" and sounds of the late 1990s, 2000s, 2010s, and now 2020s are just not that differentiated from each other, there are refinements here and there but you have to really, really nitpick to find them. Most things people suggest like emo/pop punk, EDM, trap, electropop, ect. were firmly established by 2001, there was a time when they actually didn't exist at all.

Trap in particular is very emblematic of this cultural stasis, it's basically a strain of 1990s southern rap that became popular around 2003-2005. But this is offered as the sound of the 2010s, a sound that is 20 years old!


So smartphones and social media didn't change the world at all from the late 90s...? Or is it just the same as 90s dial up internet but just "repackaged"?

Modern trap or rap has never been popular before. The modern forms of the aforementioned genres sound entirely different from their older, outdated counterparts. And I don't know why you're placing so much emphasis on the origin date when the date something becomes popular is much more important and relevant to culture.

We have small rectangles in our pocket with power that is 100s if not 1000s of times more powerful than desktop PCs in the 90s that can access 99% of recorded information in the world in a matter of seconds, play 99% of music, play games in HD, call/text people, take HD photos and videos, wake you up and do pretty much anything. Like what did you expect, spaceships or something? 2000 and 2020 is night and day.

So smartphones and social media didn't change the world at all from the late 90s...? Or is it just the same as 90s dial up internet but just "repackaged"?

Are you being purposefully obtuse, AGAIN that's changes in information technology. That has nothing to with the stylistic/aesthetic content that is being transmitted in all this info tech, which looks and sounds like the very late 20th century.

Modern trap or rap has never been popular before. The modern forms of the aforementioned genres sound entirely different from their older, outdated counterparts. And I don't know why you're placing so much emphasis on the origin date when the date something becomes popular is much more important and relevant to culture.

It's been popular for nearly 20 years, that's a generation, most of it still sounds very close to late '90s/early '00s dirty south rap, it's not even a new sub genre of rap. Sonically speaking our culture has not moved very far, how can this be denied when you look at the changes from the 1930s to 1950s or 1970s to 1990s.

We have small rectangles in our pocket with power that is 100s if not 1000s of times more powerful than desktop PCs in the 90s that can access 99% of recorded information in the world in a matter of seconds, play 99% of music, play games in HD, call/text people, take HD photos and videos, wake you up and do pretty much anything. Like what did you expect, spaceships or something? 2000 and 2020 is night and day.

And still you can't name even one new cultural form since the start of the 21st century.

I think acknowledging the problem in the first place(cultural stagnation) is the first step to fixing it, like that guy Kurt Andersen said in his article, it's like the same record has been skipping over and over again and everyone is too stoned to fix it. 

What do you mean by new cultural form?

What do you mean by new cultural form?


I'm talking about jazz, rock, punk, hip-hop, ect.

There's been many incremental developments within established styles but no new forms comparable to those.

There is a lot of cultural activity, probably with more people participating than ever before but it doesn't move very far from what was already done by the late 1990s.

I've been thinking of reasons for why this happened, maybe this is a unforeseen aspect of our digital age, to have this huge cultural archive that's readily available. 

Here's an article from The Atlantic in 2019 that resonates. It's along the lines of Kurt Andersen type articles:

The 2000s Never Ended
by Amanda Mull
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/12/america-still-living-2000s/604174/

Excerpt:

Smartphones and social media have matured since 2008, but mostly as tools of what young Americans were already doing as rapidly as technology would allow it. Speedy Wi-Fi and the mid-2007 advent of the iPhone supercharged digital communication—and made it much more visible to older Americans—but the basics were in place far earlier, and hardly a product of some pivot made 10 years ago. Texting was a common mode of communication in my high school by 2003, and it spread easily among teens who had been primed in middle school by digital chat services such as AOL Instant Messenger. By the time I went to college in late 2004, kids who could afford the latest phones were already sending one another grainy camera-phone nudes. Facebook, which then required an email address from an approved university, landed at my school shortly after I moved into my freshman dorm. (And it wasn’t even the first popular social network—Friendster and MySpace had it beat in 2002 and 2003, respectively, and LiveJournal had been around since 1999.) It’s hard to look back at the past 20 years and argue convincingly that whatever is happening now hadn’t already started in the early 2000s.

What the proliferation of smartphones and social media has done, though, is unmoor people from the sense of linear time that might make the past 20 years easier to chop up into distinct eras—or easier to understand at all. Political and cultural dimensions can be endlessly debated, but the information ecosystem in which they now exist is what makes the era both indivisible and fundamentally different from anything that came before it. Algorithmic timelines mix links, photos, and words from days, months, or years ago with those from the past 30 seconds. The 9/11 attacks helped shape the way the internet covers breaking news, and now news cycles that might have taken days or weeks whiz by in hours, supplanted almost instantly by some other, weirder story. Even entertainment has broken from the rigid logic of time that once governed Americans’ ability to consume it: Netflix, Spotify, and DVRs have extricated us from television schedules, changed how movies are released, and shrunken the familiar album-promotion cycle for new music down to nothing.

Nothing ever gets totally resolved, but there’s always a next thing to move on to. Every few years, another Spider-Man remake is foisted on America, whether we like it or not, and clothing trends mostly look backward for inspiration from the end of the 20th century. Both the country and your brain are sprinting forward and spinning in circles simultaneously, so you shouldn’t feel bad for thinking that 2010, a year of which I have basically no memory, happened, like, 45 minutes ago.

Where we exit this carnival ride of an era is just as unclear. If Trump loses the 2020 election, whatever period we’re in now might end when his successor takes office. If he wins, cranks like me might look back from the future and amend the period’s end to when he took office in 2017. Time is most easily sliced up with the benefit of hindsight, but in America as the country’s residents now know it—anxious, isolated, and terminally online—it’s not clear that simply waiting will bring any answers or any clarity. It might not even seem like much time has passed at all.

I don't like when people compare the '00s with the '10s. We didn't have SJWs, BLM or MAGA in the 2000s and we didn't have much protest back then. Occupy Wall Street and the Arab spring didn't happen until 2010-2011. We had a traditional Conservative President in the '00s not a Populist Conservative one. Other then the Virginia Tech shootings in '07 we didn't have massive shootings until 2012. Rock was big in the '00s. So I don't understand when people say thing's haven't change since 2000.

Here's an article from The Atlantic in 2019 that resonates. It's along the lines of Kurt Andersen type articles:

The 2000s Never Ended
by Amanda Mull
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/12/america-still-living-2000s/604174/



This article's main point is not even stylistic change alone, it's about information technology too and I agree with her.

The 1990s and 2000s are where the major advancements in information tech happened.

The writer of this article seems to be very close to my age(early millennial) and we both notice aspects of this stasis along with a Boomer like Kurt Anderson. 
Every few years, another Spider-Man remake is foisted on America, whether we like it or not, and clothing trends mostly look backward for inspiration from the end of the 20th century.

And she could have took the words straight out of my mouth!

I don't like when people compare the '00s with the '10s. We didn't have SJWs, BLM or MAGA in the 2000s and we didn't have much protest back then. Occupy Wall Street and the Arab spring didn't happen until 2010-2011. We had a traditional Conservative President in the '00s not a Populist Conservative one. Other then the Virginia Tech shootings in '07 we didn't have massive shootings until 2012. Rock was big in the '00s. So I don't understand when people say thing's haven't change since 2000.


This is what is so confusing, there is a lot more social unrest compared to the 2000s, it seemed to start around 2013-ish. But it hasn't translated into a new cultural overhaul(yet).

SJWs look like some stereotypical moody '90s era teenager, there were many kids walking around with dyed pink or purple hair with multiple piercings and overalls, Kurt Cobian himself would have fit right in with these people.

Are you being purposefully obtuse, AGAIN that's changes in information technology. That has nothing to with the stylistic/aesthetic content that is being transmitted in all this info tech, which looks and sounds like the very late 20th century.

It's been popular for nearly 20 years, that's a generation, most of it still sounds very close to late '90s/early '00s dirty south rap, it's not even a new sub genre of rap. Sonically speaking our culture has not moved very far, how can this be denied when you look at the changes from the 1930s to 1950s or 1970s to 1990s.

And still you can't name even one new cultural form since the start of the 21st century.

I think acknowledging the problem in the first place(cultural stagnation) is the first step to fixing it, like that guy Kurt Andersen said in his article, it's like the same record has been skipping over and over again and everyone is too stoned to fix it.


You seem to be painfully unaware of your own bias. I'm an entire generation younger than you. If you were born the same year I was you would be able to see the changes which are happening. But since you're older, you don't. The early 21st century was my childhood, it went by far more slowly for me than it did for you. The 90s are to me what the 70s are for you, they are ancient. I can clearly see a difference between now and when I was a kid.

Rock is not a new genre, it was an evolution of blues. Hip hop originates from a mix of already existing cultures. New genres don't just pop up out of the blue. Culture has always been either a backlash to or a revival/rehash of something in the past. Usually with a spin using new technology. Hip hop wouldn't exist without the DJ table. And rock wouldn't exist without the electric guitar. Yet the concepts that allowed them to exist, meaning the stuff where they originate from, far outdate the technology and genre itself.

Saying the smartphone revolution or internet hasn't influenced culture, and that it only serves as a medium to regurgitate it without letting anything new come about is very ignorant and short sighted. It would be the same thing as saying that computers or video games or movies didn't influence culture at all. What makes a video game different than any other game? It's played on a screen. What's the difference between a camera and a painting? A machine does the job instead of a human. What's the difference between a movie and a play? It only needs to be performed once but can be watched over and over again.  What's the difference between a car and a horse and carriage? One is automatic and the other isn't. Yet, all of the technologies I listed, depite their differences, all accomplish the same thing. Both board games and video games are still games, the only difference is the technology. In fact most early video games were just digital versions of board games and sports. What about cameras and photographs? Despite the differences in how they are produced, they seek to accomplish the same thing, which is capture an image. Same with a horse and carriage and a car. Earlier cars were even called horse less carriages, and also looked the part. How about movies and plays? Obviously now, movies and plays are very different things, but back then a movie was nothing more  than a skit caught on footage. They didn't have all these special effects so it looked no different then if you were to watch it in person.

When these technologies were first introduced, the people alive back then didn't think highly of them or thought they were inferior to what already existed. In other words they accomplished the same thing but through a different manner, and people didn't care enough to change because they didn't see the advantage. Yet, over time, with further improvements to them, these technologies evolved to become distinct and unique. Creating new cultures that centered around them. This didn't happen right away, it took many years and decades for it to happen. The technology evolved, but the basic concept itself has never changed.

The 20th century saw the birth of many new technologies, without it, the cultures that were 'created' in it, the same ones that symbolize it, would not exist.

Now let's look at some of the decades you mentioned. Here are the things that come to my mind when I think of culture that defined previous decades. Namely, fashion and music. I will ignore politics.

The 30s: Short hair, women wore dresses, men wore suits and hats. Jazz, blues and country were the most popular genres.

The 50s: Short hair, women were dresses, men wore suits and hats. Jazz (A blues derivative), blues, country, and rock (A blues derivative).

Well, look at that? The 30s and 50s were basically the same culturally. But obviously, they are world's apart when you compared how the average person lived in both of them. The 30s were the depression and the the 50s were the post war boom. The 50s were conservative. The 30s were liberal. The technology that existed during the 50s came about because of the war or already existed before the war such as planes, cars, TVs and radios, but were less affordable and lower quality.

Now let's compare more recent decades. You were saying that culture hasn't evolved since the 90s? Well, what exactly makes the 70s distinct from the 90s? To someone like me this is how I see it.

The 70s: Long hair with middle parts, and baggy home made or worn out clothing such as checkered shirts and denim jackets. Doc Martens and and Chuck's were popular shoes. Rock, Metal (A rock derivative), Punk (A rock derivative) and dance music (funk and disco) were the most popular genres. People did a lot of drugs. Teen pregnancies were very common. Crime rates were much higher. And everyone smoked.

The 90s: Long hair with middle parts, and baggy worn out casual clothing such as checkered shirts and denim jackets. Doc Martens and Chuck's were popular shoes. Grunge (A metal derivative), heavy Metal (A metal derivative), hiphop, and dance music (rave, house, techno etc) were popular. People did a lot of drugs. Teen pregnancies were very common. Crime rates were much higher. And everyone smoked.

Summing it up like that, they are pretty much the same.

Now let's compare the 2010s: Short hair that is either side parted or slicked back in am undercut and shaved on the sides. Fitted, slim and skinny clothing. Especially pants. Doc Martens and Chuck's are still popular shoes. Checked shirts and denim jackets are still popular. Dance music (EDM, dubstep, pop and electrpop), trap (a hiphop derivative) are the most popular genres. And finally, there is not a SINGLE rock genre that is popular. Not to mention drug usage, smoking, teen pregnancies and crime rates are all significantly lower.

The 2010s is similar to both the 90s AND the 70s in a way, but is more distinct than either are to each other.

Just look at Dazed and Confused, it's a perfect example of the similarities between the 70s and 90s. People say it's one of the most accurate representations of the 70s. Yet, even then there is a very obvious 90s look to it, clearly showing that it's a film made in the 90s. This means that both the decades were similar.

You know what was different? The technology. The 90s had the internet, 3d video games and CDs. The 70s had 2d 8 bit video games, primitive computers and vynils. In the 90s things were far more digitalized. While in the 70s they were far more analogue. The politics were obviously different, but not as much as they were to the 80s. And of course the economy. The 70s was a decade of economic stagnation for the western world, while the 90s was a decade of economic prosperity.

So to answer your question with another question. Where are the new genres that define the 2010s? Do you want to know why we haven't see any new genres yet? It's because they haven't evolved enough to be considered something distinct. Whatever will become a new genre in the future is a mutation of something that already exists or is something that's currently underground and hasn't gone mainstream yet. Or maybe they have emerged but we don't recognize them yet as distinct genres. Electropop wasn't considered its own thing until recently, never the less it's still a form of pop. Just like how trap is a form of hip-hop and grunge and punk and all genres for metal are a form of rock which in turn a form of blues.

To sum up my points, technology creates new culture, it doesn't just serve as a way to consume it, even if that appears to be the case initially. Even then, most forms of technologies and cultures which appear to be new and unique aren't actually new or unique. They are evolutions, combinations or derivatives of already existing cultures. This applies to every single era, regardless of time. Completely new ideas, which have absolutely no relationship to anything that hasn't been already though about or created are extremely rare and are becoming ever more so with the passage of time.

You seem to be painfully unaware of your own bias

What bias, everybody has some bias, but why are so many different people, from different ages to races and genders recognizing this cultural stasis?

Rock is not a new genre, it was an evolution of blues.


Just because rock has precedents doesn't mean it wasn't new, it started from initial roots but very clearly became a distinct new sound and subculture.


The 30s: Short hair, women wore dresses, men wore suits and hats. Jazz, blues and country were the most popular genres.

The 50s: Short hair, women were dresses, men wore suits and hats. Jazz (A blues derivative), blues, country, and rock (A blues derivative).

Well, look at that? The 30s and 50s were basically the same culturally. But obviously, they are world's apart when you compared how the average person lived in both of them. The 30s were the depression and the the 50s were the post war boom. The 50s were conservative. The 30s were liberal. The technology that existed during the 50s came about because of the war or already existed before the war such as planes, cars, TVs and radios, but were less affordable and lower quality.

You're trying to find any continuities between these decades to kind of "equalize" things, like see, there's actually little differences between these other eras. There are perennial staples that span through multiple decades, like basic denim, suit and ties, ect. but there is also distinct aesthetic staples that use to be confined to "decades", that has broken down in the 21st century.

Now let's compare more recent decades. You were saying that culture hasn't evolved since the 90s? Well, what exactly makes the 70s distinct from the 90s? To someone like me this is how I see it.

The 70s: Long hair with middle parts, and baggy home made or worn out clothing such as checkered shirts and denim jackets. Doc Martens and and Chuck's were popular shoes. Rock, Metal (A rock derivative), Punk (A rock derivative) and dance music (funk and disco) were the most popular genres. People did a lot of drugs. Teen pregnancies were very common. Crime rates were much higher. And everyone smoked.

The 90s: Long hair with middle parts, and baggy worn out casual clothing such as checkered shirts and denim jackets. Doc Martens and Chuck's were popular shoes. Grunge (A metal derivative), heavy Metal (A metal derivative), hiphop, and dance music (rave, house, techno etc) were popular. People did a lot of drugs. Teen pregnancies were very common. Crime rates were much higher. And everyone smoked.

Summing it up like that, they are pretty much the same.

Listen, you're just selectively picking certain continuities to stack the deck in your favor, but when you look at the broad picture the '70s and '90s are very different. The dated stuff of the '70s, like you would not find people wearing big collared leisure suits, big stripped bell bottoms, and the  newish stuff of the '90s(hip-hop culture, the various flavors of electronica) created to big cultural chasm.

Also crime rates peaked in the early '90s, the big story of the '90s is the decline of crime rates, the '90s was an era of tough on crime, this was post AIDS, this is very different than the environment of the 1970s.

Now let's compare the 2010s: Short hair that is either side parted or slicked back in am undercut and shaved on the sides. Fitted, slim and skinny clothing. Especially pants. Doc Martens and Chuck's are still popular shoes. Checked shirts and denim jackets are still popular. Dance music (EDM, dubstep, pop and electrpop), trap (a hiphop derivative) are the most popular genres. And finally, there is not a SINGLE rock genre that is popular. Not to mention drug usage, smoking, teen pregnancies and crime rates are all significantly lower.

The 2010s is similar to both the 90s AND the 70s in a way, but is more distinct than either are to each other.

I see what you did, trap is a subgenre of southern rap, it's not comparable to rock being derivative of blues, it's not even a "new" style of rap.
So the biggest musical difference between the '90s and 2010s is the decline of rock music, not anything new emerging, just slight modifications. There is much, much, much more cultural continuity between the late 1990s and today compared to previous eras, I can't stress this enough.

Just look at Dazed and Confused, it's a perfect example of the similarities between the 70s and 90s. People say it's one of the most accurate representations of the 70s. Yet, even then there is a very obvious 90s look to it, clearly showing that it's a film made in the 90s. This means that both the decades were similar.

No they weren't, again you're trying to equalize things out and make it seem like other eras were as stagnant as our era which is definitely not the case.


So to answer your question with another question. Where are the new genres that define the 2010s? Do you want to know why we haven't see any new genres yet? It's because they haven't evolved enough to be considered something distinct. Whatever will become a new genre in the future is a mutation of something that already exists or is something that's currently underground and hasn't gone mainstream yet. Or maybe they have emerged but we don't recognize them yet as distinct genres. Electropop wasn't considered its own thing until recently, never the less it's still a form of pop. Just like how trap is a form of hip-hop and grunge and punk and all genres for metal are a form of rock which in turn a form of blues.

You're basically saying we haven't had enough time for genres to become distinct, how much time do we need, 20, 30, 50 years? This wasn't the case for most of the 20th century.

Electropop has been recognized as a distinct style since the early 1980s, that's over 40 years ago, it was used interchangeably with technopop back then.

It's interesting that in this denialism there is a tendency to knock down other past eras a peg, like see the 1960s was just old blues music.