I’d like to start off by saying I’m gay and gender queer (androgynous?) . This just means I am more feminine and have a feminine mind, soul and position if that makes sense. I’m not transgender or anything just effeminate and gay. My whole life I was called a “tom girl” or “a girly girl”.  As a kid I gravitated towards girls and made friends with them easily where as boys were a bit tougher for me. They were rougher and liked cars. I was gentle and liked jump rope. I really hope that in the 2020’s, people like me can feel more comfortable and help people understand my mind. I know a lot of people think that I may have a mental illness or I’m an attention seeker and I hope in the 2020’s we can spread awareness.  It sucks when people use this whole non binary, transgender thing as a joke. I understand that some people who don’t understand think that its bad to expose children to people like me.

I think the world has become WAY more gender neutral (or gender accepting) than earlier decades.  I hope it continues and everybody can just accept each other and get along.  I'm straight as an arrow but it still bothers me to see people bullied for their differences or really for any reason.

I think the world has become WAY more gender neutral (or gender accepting) than earlier decades.  I hope it continues and everybody can just accept each other and get along.  I'm straight as an arrow but it still bothers me to see people bullied for their differences or really for any reason.


You are so awesome! I hope to see more of this in the next decade. I hate bullying myself. It really upsets me :/

They need to stop bullying gays and treat people the way you want to be treated.

Definitely. Sadly, I felt like in the 2010s, the fashion made it seem like we were going the other way, and with the orange man in office and several political developments worldwide, it seemed to be a government-sanctioned thing to hate these people.

My company already has a sign in the men’s room admonishing people to not flush their tampoons down the toilet.

I think it’s already here.

I don’t think the 2020s will be more gender neutral. “Non-binary” people are an extremely tiny percent of the population. Just because they’re loud on social media doesn’t mean they’re common.

I just know for a fact that my future son will not be wearing dresses. ;D

YES. Enough said. I shouldn't have to claim to be transgender in order to get employed as an Emo guy. Probably that's why nobody in my area is attractive to me. The '10s may have been allright for gay people with traditional standards of beauty, but not for gay people such as me.

I tell you, the '10s were a living hell for me. I got so obsessed with NSFW thoughts that I couldn't even feed myself most of the time because I tried finding release without hooking up with someone fugly. And just in case you thought I could have lowered my standards, I couldn't, because I was always wondering if years after marrying someone with a hideous hairstyle, society would become more accepting towards long-haired emo guys.

I was pissed. De facto, I couldn't be in a relationship, yet I was always thinking about the opposite possibility.

YES. Enough said. I shouldn't have to claim to be transgender in order to get employed as an Emo guy. Probably that's why nobody in my area is attractive to me. The '10s may have been allright for gay people with traditional standards of beauty, but not for gay people such as me.

I tell you, the '10s were a living hell for me. I got so obsessed with NSFW thoughts that I couldn't even feed myself most of the time because I tried finding release without hooking up with someone fugly. And just in case you thought I could have lowered my standards, I couldn't, because I was always wondering if years after marrying someone with a hideous hairstyle, society would become more accepting towards long-haired emo guys.

I was pissed. De facto, I couldn't be in a relationship, yet I was always thinking about the opposite possibility.


What field are you studying in/going into? In tech at least nobody cares about your hairstyle/way you dress. In finance or law I could see why it's a problem.

Nah, not really. I like masculine fashion.

I don’t think the 2020s will be more gender neutral. “Non-binary” people are an extremely tiny percent of the population. Just because they’re loud on social media doesn’t mean they’re common.

I just know for a fact that my future son will not be wearing dresses. ;D


No offense but your last comment was very ignorant and I feel sorry for your future son. Non binary and gender neutrality are two completely different things.  If you are homophobic or won’t allow you children to express themselves/gravitate to certain things that are stereotypical feminine out of internalized homophobia, please don’t have kids. Kids need love and support not a confinement center.

They need to stop bullying gays and treat people others want to be treated.


I agree. Imm glad the world is changing ! I hope more people like you are around in the next few decades.

No offense but your last comment was very ignorant and I feel sorry for your future son. Non binary and gender neutrality are two completely different things.  If you are homophobic or won’t allow you children to express themselves/gravitate to certain things that are stereotypical feminine out of internalized homophobia, please don’t have kids. Kids need love and support not a confinement center.

I don’t care what you or others do. My son ain’t wearing a dress and that’s that.

I think it'll happen. Initially, I thought this whole "Non-binary" thing is a fad, but apparently it seems that people who identify as such are gonna live like that for as long as they live. People can identify as whatever they want, but I still personally believe that the XY and XX chromosomes directly correlate to biological features between males and females.

I think it'll happen. Initially, I thought this whole "Non-binary" thing is a fad, but apparently it seems that people who identify as such are gonna live like that for as long as they live. People can identify as whatever they want, but I still personally believe that the XY and XX chromosomes directly correlate to biological features between males and females.

I don't know if I can see "non-binary" lasting ten years from now. I feel like it's going to become even more rare than it is right now.

I don't know if I can see "non-binary" lasting ten years from now. I feel like it's going to become even more rare than it is right now.

I don't even think that having multiple genders will have staying power for long.

I don’t care what you or others do. My son ain’t wearing a dress and that’s that.


What a terrible thing to say. The suicide rate for trans teenagers is 50%+, I hope your son doesn't become a statistic.

I agree. Imm glad the world is changing ! I hope more people like you are around in the next few decades.


There are a few gay workers in my workplace and I'm not offended by them at all.

What a terrible thing to say. The suicide rate for trans teenagers is 50%+, I hope your son doesn't become a statistic.

I don’t want my future son wearing dresses and it’s not gonna happen. It’s a preference. Please go argue with someone else.

I don’t want my future son wearing dresses and it’s not gonna happen. It’s a preference. Please go argue with someone else.

Well, I hope your son doesn't have gender dysphoria, because not everything you wish for will come true.

Well, I hope your son doesn't have gender dysphoria, because not everything you wish for will come true.

The chances of having an actual trans kid is extremely small. It’s almost pointless to be worrying about it.

The chances of having an actual trans kid is extremely small. It’s almost pointless to be worrying about it.


Let’s hope you care more about your kid getting an F in Statistics or Logic class than what clothes he wears ;D

If you have one child, we can assume there’s a 5% chance they’re LGBT, and a 1% chance they’re transgender.

With three children however, there’s a 14% chance that at least one of your children is LGBT, and 3% of them being transgender.

With 5 kids that rises to 23% and 5% respectively. Those are not insignificant numbers.

Let’s hope you care more about your kid getting an F in Statistics or Logic class than what clothes he wears ;D

If you have one child, we can assume there’s a 5% chance they’re LGBT, and a 1% chance they’re transgender.

With three children however, there’s a 14% chance that at least one of your children is LGBT, and 3% of them being transgender.

With 5 kids that rises to 23% and 5% respectively. Those are not insignificant numbers.

Still not that common 🤷🏽‍♀️ And I don’t know why we’re bringing up gays and lesbians in this conservation. It has nothing to do with them. Even then, I would much rather have my child be gay than trans.

Think of it this way: My child being gay doesn’t really affect me. It’s just their own sexual preference.

With a trans child, you have to get used to the fact that they are the opposite gender, new pronouns, new name, etc. It’s like your child is changing into a completely different person. And me preferring my kids to be cis isn’t transphobic. It’s just a preference.

I guess the label that fits me best is androgynous, but I'm hesitant to put a label on myself. I have girly mannerisms and I always get mistaken for a woman over the phone because my voice sound so feminine, but I also have a beard and prefer to wear men's clothing. I have no desire to wear women's clothing because, for one thing, women's pants tend to not have front pockets and that's a dealbreaker for me.  ::)

That said, even though I support the right of people to wear whatever they want to wear, I don't want to see mainstream fashion trend gender neutral. It's a turn-off for me to see men dressed feminine, and nothing is really "gender neutral" because it will end up becoming gendered, anyway. To me, gender neutral looks masculine-ish because, face it, it won't in our lifetime become socially acceptable for men to wear dresses, but nobody has a second thought about women dressing masculine.

Let’s hope you care more about your kid getting an F in Statistics or Logic class than what clothes he wears ;D

If you have one child, we can assume there’s a 5% chance they’re LGBT, and a 1% chance they’re transgender.

With three children however, there’s a 14% chance that at least one of your children is LGBT, and 3% of them being transgender.

With 5 kids that rises to 23% and 5% respectively. Those are not insignificant numbers.


Still not that common 🤷🏽‍♀️ And I don’t know why we’re bringing up gays and lesbians in this conservation. It has nothing to do with them. Even then, I would much rather have my child be gay than trans.

Think of it this way: My child being gay doesn’t really affect me. It’s just their own sexual preference.

With a trans child, you have to get used to the fact that they are the opposite gender, new pronouns, new name, etc. It’s like your child is changing into a completely different person. And me preferring my kids to be cis isn’t transphobic. It’s just a preference.

Can't we all just settle?  ::) We all have preferences as to what we like or don't like. Things may or may not be what we want them to be. But preferences still make us human.

Can't we all just settle?  ::) We all have preferences as to what we like or don't like. Things may or may not be what we want them to be. But preferences still make us human.

Yeah, this is really pointless. I just want it to end.

My company already has a sign in the men’s room admonishing people to not flush their tampoons down the toilet.

I think it’s already here.


At my university around 2015 or 2016 they put a tampon dispenser in one of the men's washrooms.

I can only hope we establish a Mars colony soon so people who want others to stick to traditional gender norms can stay in one world and the rest in another if we fail to compromise.

I don’t want my future son wearing dresses and it’s not gonna happen. It’s a preference. Please go argue with someone else.
What if you had a son who wanted to wear dresses but didn't want to do anything else with his body? Would you be open to putting him up for adoption too if he insists on this? Do you think you could have another child with the possibility that this would not be the case? As you said, it may only be a small chance that this happens, but as someone who considers their parents killjoys over preferences (not only related to gender), I'd leave them in a heartbeat provided I have the finances to do so.
I'm not sure if it's wise to raise a child to be resentful of you for at least 18 years if it turns out your preferences will constantly be conflicting with each other.

As a bi guy who is a bit more on the feminine side, I would love for LGBT and people who are non gender conforming to be more accepted and loved. That would be amazing.

But otherwise, I hope this decade becomes more and more gender neutral. Why is it that people who have something like at least years envy towards the other gender have to live in misery, whereas those who don't don't have to?
I tried finding reasons to appreciate being a guy for years. I've realized that nearly all of them relied on external validation and the few that didn't come from external validation I just simply couldn't bring myself to care about them, even if they were objectively better in certain situations (e.g. better, uh, plumbing).

I don’t care what you or others do. My son ain’t wearing a dress and that’s that.


Never said he had to ? But having kids opens the possibility  that they MAY turn out to be born LGBT. If you aren’t prepared for that reality, then you shouldn't have kids..

Still not that common 🤷🏽‍♀️ And I don’t know why we’re bringing up gays and lesbians in this conservation. It has nothing to do with them. Even then, I would much rather have my child be gay than trans.

Think of it this way: My child being gay doesn’t really affect me. It’s just their own sexual preference.

With a trans child, you have to get used to the fact that they are the opposite gender, new pronouns, new name, etc. It’s like your child is changing into a completely different person. And me preferring my kids to be cis isn’t transphobic. It’s just a preference.


Maybe if you are a good parent you’d pay attention to your child and create a safe environment to tell you/express themselves. A good parent pays attention to all of the signs that come with being LGBT. It’s not like you can choose your gender/sexuality. People are born that way. Gender dysmorphia is really real and if I experienced it as a child I would want loving and supportive parents I could express that to. Hopefully your antiquated views diminish in the 20’s.

Maybe if you are a good parent you’d pay attention to your child and create a safe environment to tell you/express themselves. A good parent pays attention to all of the signs that come with being LGBT. It’s not like you can choose your gender/sexuality. People are born that way. Gender dysmorphia is really real and if I experienced it as a child I would want loving and supportive parents I could express that to. Hopefully your antiquated views diminish in the 20’s.
They should at least be willing to give up that child for adoption.

They should at least be willing to give up that child for adoption.



40% of homeless people are LGBT, so unfortunately it's more common than you think. I know my parents will disown me once they find out I'm gay.

What if you had a son who wanted to wear dresses but didn't want to do anything else with his body?

Just tell him he should wear something else? Not that hard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/1kTLyj4afhfTng66Fh/giphy.gif

Never said he had to ? But having kids opens the possible that they MAY turn out to be born LGBT. If you aren’t prepared for that reality, then you shouldn't have kids..

When did I say I didn't want an LGBT child? Lmfaoo.

Just tell him he should wear something else? Not that hard.


Lol "not that hard". You don't know the first thing about parenting ;D

Just tell him he should wear something else? Not that hard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/1kTLyj4afhfTng66Fh/giphy.gif
In the short term this may seem like a reasonable solution, however, in the long term, if this is the only view your son respects (i.e. men shouldn't wear dresses), he could at best simply dislike seeing men in dresses or at worst see them as something that needs immediate and involuntary intervention.

When did I say I didn't want an LGBT child? Lmfaoo.


You made it pretty clear. I don’t want to assume that you are homophobic. I just felt like what you said earlier was a bit ignorant that’s all. It doesn’t seem like you’d be willing to accept your future son unless he fits the binary of traditionalism amongst gender which are both pretty antiquated and constructed. But to each will be their own.

You made it pretty clear. I don’t want to assume that you are homophobic. I just felt like what you said earlier was a bit ignorant that’s all. It doesn’t seem like you’d be willing to accept your future son unless he fits the binary of traditionalism amongst gender which are both pretty antiquated and constructed. But to each will be their own.

Homophobic? What did this conservation have to do with homosexuals LMFAO

.... out of internalized homophobia, please don’t have kids. Kids need love and support not a confinement center.


Where did his post indicate that he was AFRAID of homosexuals? that is what homophobic means. “Phobia” meaning “fear”.

I imagine there are any number of people who do not like gays who are not afraid of them. ‘Anti-homosexual’ would be a more appropriate moniker because it describes the condition and not the root cause.

Where did his post indicate that he was AFRAID of homosexuals? that is what homophobic means. “Phobia” meaning “fear”.

I imagine there are any number of people who do not like gays who are not afraid of them. ‘Anti-homosexual’ would be a more appropriate moniker because it describes the condition and not the root cause.


If she's afraid her son will be transgender then what is that?

If she's afraid her son will be transgender then what is that?


That’s not what I read. I read a declaration that the son would not be wearing dresses.

That’s not what I read. I read a declaration that the son would not be wearing dresses.


Here


With a trans child, you have to get used to the fact that they are the opposite gender, new pronouns, new name, etc. It’s like your child is changing into a completely different person. And me preferring my kids to be cis isn’t transphobic. It’s just a preference.

Homophobic? What did this conservation have to do with homosexuals LMFAO


Did you not read the title of my thread and how it pertains to lgbt ?

Where did his post indicate that he was AFRAID of homosexuals? that is what homophobic means. “Phobia” meaning “fear”.

I imagine there are any number of people who do not like gays who are not afraid of them. ‘Anti-homosexual’ would be a more appropriate moniker because it describes the condition and not the root cause.


The word homophobic has been used interchangeably for years. This is how homophobes try to eradicate the fact that they are indeed homophobic , phobia also stems from hate not only fear. The definition of a phobia according to oxford: an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something. Aversion means a strong dislike towards something.

Did you not read the title of my thread and how it pertains to lgbt ?

still don’t make sense but whatever

With the way this thread is going I think it would be better to move to the "religion and politics" thread. With that being said. Everyone on here has the right to have their own preference, but when you're too forceful or crucifying someone for having a stance for what they believe in, then that's when I have a major problem. If Rainbowz feels like her future son (as a kid with a young innocent mind) should never wear dresses, then that's her own opinion & choice, and that's final.

With the way this thread is going I think it would be better to move to the "religion and politics" thread. With that being said. Everyone on here has the right to have their own preference, but when you're too forceful or crucifying someone for having a stance for what they believe in, then that's when I have a major problem. If Rainbowz feels like her future son (as a kid with a young innocent mind) should never wear dresses, then that's her own opinion & choice, and that's final.
As long as her son does not grow up to believe men and boys wearing dresses to inherently be dangerous, then she'll be entitled to that.

With the way this thread is going I think it would be better to move to the "religion and politics" thread. With that being said. Everyone on here has the right to have their own preference, but when you're too forceful or crucifying someone for having a stance for what they believe in, then that's when I have a major problem. If Rainbowz feels like her future son (as a kid with a young innocent mind) should never wear dresses, then that's her own opinion & choice, and that's final.


I liked this thread before it got derailed by this non-existent son. Hopefully we can bring it back on topic, because I don't think it was meant to be political.

I was reading an old thread recently, you probably remember it "Masculinity in the 2010s", it was a lot more respectful (and funny ;D)

http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=54733.0

With the way this thread is going I think it would be better to move to the "religion and politics" thread. With that being said. Everyone on here has the right to have their own preference, but when you're too forceful or crucifying someone for having a stance for what they believe in, then that's when I have a major problem. If Rainbowz feels like her future son (as a kid with a young innocent mind) should never wear dresses, then that's her own opinion & choice, and that's final.


I agree and rainbowz is entitled to her opinion. That is her right. Being an lgbt kid has nothing to do with NOT being innocent either ? I knew I liked boys in preschool and loved wearing my moms 1998 heels lmao https://imgur.com/a/Ns4NB8k. It doesn’t mean I wasn’t an innocent kid tho. Let children express and gravitate to what they want, like you said they are innocent after all. My main topic was about gender neutrality and if the 20’s will be about more neutrality and gender acceptance. Her response followed with she didn’t think it would. Cool. But then she concluded that her son would never wear dresses as if that was a bad thing followed with a laugh. I thought that was a little ironic considering this thread was about the evolution of LGBT folks and gender non-confirming people.

I agree and rainbowz is entitled to her opinion. That is her right. Being an lgbt kid has nothing to do with NOT being innocent either ? I knew I liked boys in preschool and loved wearing my moms 1998 heels lmao https://imgur.com/a/Ns4NB8k. It doesn’t mean I wasn’t an innocent kid tho. Let children express and gravitate to what they want, like you said they are innocent after all. My main topic was about gender neutrality and if the 20’s will be about more neutrality and gender acceptance. Her response followed with she didn’t think it would. Cool. But then she concluded that her son would never wear dresses as if that was a bad thing followed with a laugh. I thought that was a little ironic considering this thread was about the evolution of LGBT folks and gender non-confirming people.


I used to wear nailpolish circa 1995-96 too ;D I would hide my hands under the sofa whenever my dad walked by. My parents thought it was funny. Adorable pic btw. Also your '90s furniture looks A LOT like mine.

I used to wear nailpolish circa 1995-96 too ;D I would hide my hands under the sofa whenever my dad walked by. My parents thought it was funny. Adorable pic btw. Also your '90s furniture looks A LOT like mine.


Omg thank you :) that sounds just like me growing up 😂. I was so afraid to show my dad the things I liked because I knew it would be a problem. I promise my future kids that they will feel safe and supported enough to tell me anything. It’s kind of weird but even as young as ages 2-3 I feel like lgbt kids caught on to these things early on. Like we were so young but even at that age we knew that society didn’t acknowledge what we gravitated too based upon gender norms. Things have changed tho since that era and for the better !

Omg thank you :) that sounds just like me growing up 😂. I was so afraid to show my dad the things I liked because I knew it would be a problem. I promise my future kids that they will feel safe and supported enough to tell me anything. It’s kind of weird but even as young as ages 2-3 I feel like lgbt kids caught on to these things early on. Like we were so young but even at that age we knew that society didn’t acknowledge what we gravitated too based upon gender norms. Things have changed tho since that era and for the better !


That's so important. My little sister (she is 14 years old) talks to me about her problems instead of my mom, because she knows mom will get angry and criticize her over pointless things (like what she's wearing). With me, she knows I only care about her grades and that I make sure she spends one hour reading everyday. ;D I'm glad I can have a open-air relationship with her.

Times are a changin'. My best friend from kindergarten (he is straight) used to be so homophobic you wouldn't believe it. He was using terms like "that's so gay" and "fag" and wore offensive baggy jeans as late as 2015. Now that he lives on his own, he got ear piercings and carries a locket. His parents went berserk. I think millennials are going to be less hung up about it this sort of thing than previous generations.

What field are you studying in/going into? In tech at least nobody cares about your hairstyle/way you dress. In finance or law I could see why it's a problem.


Slowpoke? I didn't think you would say something like this... I'm intending to become a Chemical Engineer.

I don't know if I can see "non-binary" lasting ten years from now. I feel like it's going to become even more rare than it is right now.


In many cultures around the world, the concept of a third gender has existed for thousands of years. In South Asia they already known to exist during the Vedic Period (1500-500BC). Ancient Egypt also had a third gender, they were written about a whole millennia before Cleopatra was born. In pre-colonial West Africa, gender was a lot more fluid and wasn't rigidly categorized. It wasn't until 500 years ago that Europeans started imposing their beliefs to the world. We're just now slowly reconnecting with our past by accepting queer/trans people, and the world is getting richer for it.

With the way this thread is going I think it would be better to move to the "religion and politics" thread. With that being said. Everyone on here has the right to have their own preference, but when you're too forceful or crucifying someone for having a stance for what they believe in, then that's when I have a major problem. If Rainbowz feels like her future son (as a kid with a young innocent mind) should never wear dresses, then that's her own opinion & choice, and that's final.

When you express an opinion on a public forum people are going to respond to you and that's final.

Slowpoke? I didn't think you would say something like this... I'm intending to become a Chemical Engineer.


What? Why wouldn't I say something like that? ;D

My cousin got a degree in chemical engineering, however I'm not sure his job is related to his degree. But I know his job has no dress code. In STEM, people care about what's in your head, not what's on it. You have nothing to worry about. It's in jobs like lawyer or financial advisor where you have to face the general public that you have worry about being presentable to your clients (or else they don't take you seriously).

The casualization of workplace clothing would be an interesting topic. I remember in my job In 2010 I saw "casual Fridays" become casual everydays in real time by 2011. In 2016 (the next time I had a job outside university) it was very casual, but you had to still look presentable, like you wouldn't wear pyjamas (I mean you could, but don't expect people to be impressed). Now? People come dressed like university students during the middle of exam month, no f*cks given

To think in 2007 I wore a suit to my grocery store job interview LOL (although even then it was outlandish)

There's this guy at work who has long hair down to his shoulders. He is super chill, everyone likes him. There have even been dudes and dudettes with coloured hair (silver, pink, blue etc.). You ain't got nothing to worry about.

What? Why wouldn't I say something like that? ;D


First time I revealed I was Emo on the forum, you suggested I was trying to impress somebody and wasn't being myself. It made me automatically hate you because my only problem was other people treating me like crap for no sound reason.

In many cultures around the world, the concept of a third gender has existed for thousands of years. In South Asia they already known to exist during the Vedic Period (1500-500BC). Ancient Egypt also had a third gender, they were written about a whole millennia before Cleopatra was born. In pre-colonial West Africa, gender was a lot more fluid and wasn't rigidly categorized. It wasn't until 500 years ago that Europeans started imposing their beliefs to the world. We're just now slowly reconnecting with our past by accepting queer/trans people, and the world is getting richer for it.


I saw hijras (transgender) many times in India and Pakistan. They are hired as dancers in weddings, since transgendered people are considered good luck.

Sometimes though, they would dance provocatively in front of your car until you gave them money to move out of the way. (they are very often beggars)

@Slowpoke

I replied to you again if you didn't notice. It was the last post on page 4.

I’d like to start off by saying I’m gay and gender queer (androgynous?) . This just means I am more feminine and have a feminine mind, soul and position if that makes sense. I’m not transgender or anything just effeminate and gay. My whole life I was called a “tom girl” or “a girly girl”.  As a kid I gravitated towards girls and made friends with them easily where as boys were a bit tougher for me. They were rougher and liked cars. I was gentle and liked jump rope. I really hope that in the 2020’s, people like me can feel more comfortable and help people understand my mind. I know a lot of people think that I may have a mental illness or I’m an attention seeker and I hope in the 2020’s we can spread awareness.  It sucks when people use this whole non binary, transgender thing as a joke. I understand that some people who don’t understand think that its bad to expose children to people like me.


I do think that androgyny and LGBT-influenced fashion (and culture in general) will go mainstream this decade, not to the point where everyone is kikiing instead of having a kickback, but kind of mainstream influence that Black/Latino people had in the 1970s and 1990s. Gen Z are switching gears from being primarily consumers to producers of culture as well. That's why everyone is writing about E-girls and sh*t like that. In some ways LGBT people are already very influential to Gen Z. I mean, the whole soft boy aesthetic basically came from queer college art kids. Prior to that those same kids were hypebeasts or bored indieheads. I've never seen so many straight guys paint their nails black, wear septum rings, and roll up their thrifted jeans. I've even seen some guys wear blush, although it's definitely rare. Not to mention that a huge chunk of Gen Z slang is basically just recycled Ballroom language (tea, snapped, drag, queen of _____, shade), and stan lingo.

Side note, I think this whole NikkieTutorials situation is really shedding positive light on the LGBT community. I've never seen such positive reception to someone coming out, so maybe by the mid/late 20s the world will be already a lot more accepting and free.

First time I revealed I was Emo on the forum, you suggested I was trying to impress somebody and wasn't being myself. It made me automatically hate you because my only problem was other people treating me like crap for no sound reason.


Oh wow. I didn't mean to hurt you or anything. I'm sorry about that.

Looking at my post, I think me and Voiceofthe70s were talking from an older person's perspective. You see a young guy who's depressed because he can't belong to a certain group. I guess what I was trying to say was, don't worry too much about the label and chart your own path.


Absolutely none of this is new.  We went through the same thing in the 60s and 70s for having long hair, among other things. People were actually REFUSED entrance to Disneyland for having long hair, it was their policy. Long hair was a political statement back then, and, yes, it caused me some trouble and I heard snickers, etc. Now I am of an age where it just doesn't matter to me anymore whether I do or do not look a certain way, or whether I identify with any particular group. I have moved beyond it. I have found peace. But I completely remember what it was like, and how seriously important it is to a younger age group to 'belong". I understand it well. Yet people say "OK Boomer" as if we can't empathize. So it goes on STILL, even there.



I agree. I wanted to say something similar but I was afraid it would sound mean,. Why are you trying to be emo, and wrapping your identity around someone else's style? Just be yourself.


(emphasis mine, I think Voiceofthe70s would actually emphasize the non-bold part of his post)

By "someone else's style" I think I was referring to how emo doesn't exist anymore, and you have to look back in time to copy it (from "someone else"). But TBH, it was a while ago and I forgot what I was trying to say. I probably wouldn't say that now that I know you better and what the it all means to you.

Oh wow. I didn't mean to hurt you or anything. I'm sorry about that.

By "someone else's style" I think I was referring to how emo doesn't exist anymore, and you have to look back in time to copy it (from "someone else"). But TBH, it was a while ago and I forgot what I was trying to say. I probably wouldn't say that now that I know you better and what the it all means to you.


Oh, well, good to know.
I remember knowing about the culture as far back as 2006, maybe 2005, to be exact, so I didn't really need to look at any old pictures. Ironically, I still didn't identify with it until back in '10.

Here

Most people would probably prefer a cis child - it’s just easier to deal with. That doesn’t mean they’d love their child any less if they were trans though.

At my university around 2015 or 2016 they put a tampon dispenser in one of the men's washrooms.


Why would they do that? ???

Why would they do that? ???


Apparently some of the students there needed manpoons.

That's so important. My little sister (she is 14 years old) talks to me about her problems instead of my mom, because she knows mom will get angry and criticize her over pointless things (like what she's wearing). With me, she knows I only care about her grades and that I make sure she spends one hour reading everyday. ;D I'm glad I can have a open-air relationship with her.

Times are a changin'. My best friend from kindergarten (he is straight) used to be so homophobic you wouldn't believe it. He was using terms like "that's so gay" and "fag" and wore offensive baggy jeans as late as 2015. Now that he lives on his own, he got ear piercings and carries a locket. His parents went berserk. I think millennials are going to be less hung up about it this sort of thing than previous generations.


I believe so too. I mean I’m on the cusp between millennials and gen z but I feel like 80’s/90’s babies grew up in an era (as kids/teens) where there was some progressive change already happening but a majority of things were still super homophobic. At the time I was so immune to it I didn’t even pay attention. I just thought homophobia was normal and that I was gonna have to deal with it. Now that I’m older I’m so thankful that people like us were born into this era. There’s still a lot of progress to be made but I will be dammed if my future kids have to deal with that.

People still call things gay at my school lmao. In fact, I was in the bathroom at my school one time and I saw a writing that said “school so gay”. I don’t think they’re literally homophobic though.

In many cultures around the world, the concept of a third gender has existed for thousands of years. In South Asia they already known to exist during the Vedic Period (1500-500BC). Ancient Egypt also had a third gender, they were written about a whole millennia before Cleopatra was born. In pre-colonial West Africa, gender was a lot more fluid and wasn't rigidly categorized. It wasn't until 500 years ago that Europeans started imposing their beliefs to the world. We're just now slowly reconnecting with our past by accepting queer/trans people, and the world is getting richer for it.


I didn’t know about all of that :o. Do you have any sources? Articles, etc? I would like to read up on some of this.

People still call things gay at my school lmao. In fact, I was in the bathroom at my school one time and I saw a writing that said “school so gay”. I don’t think they’re literally homophobic though.


Context is key, and I see where you’re coming from. However, that doesn’t make it right. The same could be said with the N-Word, just because some people may say it ‘jokingly’, doesn’t make using the word (in most contextual situations) ok to say.

Back when I was growing up, calling something or someone ‘gay’ was the equivalent of calling something ‘stupid’ or calling someone ‘weak’. We were sh!t talking kids that didn’t have an ounce of understanding about LGBTQ culture, let alone sex to begin with ;D. But looking back to how me and friends use to talk, especially using language like that, makes me cringe.

But this was in the early-mid 2000s, before our culture really started to become more enlightened about these issues. Genuine homophobia was still pretty prevalent back then. It was a different era altogether. So I do think there is a difference between kids in my generation that used terms like ‘gay’ or the f-word due to a genuine sense of ignorance, and kids using those words now knowing damn well the hurtful connotation behind those words.

No offense, but if I saw a kid in your school, who btw is what.... between the ages of 14-17/18, writing on a bathroom stall something homophobic just to be ‘edgy’ or whatever, I’d smack them on the head.

I didn’t know about all of that :o. Do you have any sources? Articles, etc? I would like to read up on some of this.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)

People had a mostly positive, magical view of them until the British arrived and tried to wipe them out. It's really sad.  :-\\

Context is key, and I see where you’re coming from. However, that doesn’t make it right. The same could be said with the N-Word, just because some people may say it ‘jokingly’, doesn’t make using the word (in most contextual situations) ok to say.

Back when I was growing up, calling something or someone ‘gay’ was the equivalent of calling something ‘stupid’ or calling someone ‘weak’. We were sh!t talking kids that didn’t have an ounce of understanding about LGBTQ culture, let alone sex to begin with ;D. But looking back to how me and friends use to talk, especially using language like that, makes me cringe.

But this was in the early-mid 2000s, before our culture really started to become more enlightened about these issues. Genuine homophobia was still pretty prevalent back then. It was a different era altogether. So I do think there is a difference between kids in my generation that used terms like ‘gay’ or the f-word due to a genuine sense of ignorance, and kids using those words now knowing damn well the hurtful connotation behind those words.

No offense, but if I saw a kid in your school, who btw is what.... between the ages of 14-17/18, writing on a bathroom stall something homophobic just to be ‘edgy’ or whatever, I’d smack them on the head.

People say the N-word all the time. Not the one with the “er” ending but the “a” ending one. I don’t think it’s wrong or anything (unless you ain’t black  ;D) I say it all the time.

Also, most of the kids at my school say it ironically. I don’t think they’re literally homophobic.

I didn’t know about all of that :o. Do you have any sources? Articles, etc? I would like to read up on some of this.


Yep and it was prevalent in Native American tribes before they were colonized. https://www.ihs.gov/lgbt/health/twospirit/

People say the N-word all the time. Not the one with the “er” ending but the “a” ending one. I don’t think it’s wrong or anything (unless you ain’t black  ;D) I say it all the time.

Also, most of the kids at my school say it ironically. I don’t think they’re literally homophobic.



They even say it where I work.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)

People had a mostly positive, magical view of them until the British arrived and tried to wipe them out. It's really sad.  :-\\


A relic of British colonialism, eh. It's a shame that the atrocities of the British Empire have been largely forgotten among most people (but that's veering on being too political, so I'll stop there).



People say the N-word all the time. Not the one with the “er” ending but the “a” ending one. I don’t think it’s wrong or anything (unless you ain’t black  ;D) I say it all the time.

Also, most of the kids at my school say it ironically. I don’t think they’re literally homophobic.


'A' and 'Er' are two completely different meanings. However, even then when Black people use the word, it is almost always used in a positive 'brotherly love' kind of expression. Obviously no black person whom is not self hating would ever use 'er'.

However, a white person that even uses 'a' could have a double meaning under its usage. Not to say that it would be completely in a racist intent, but it could be implied through body language that they may be more animated with it's usage among other friends (even if with black friends) compared to how black people may use it, or if that particular white person would supplement a word of similar brotherly admiration. Growing up in the suburbs with tons of so called 'Wiggas', they were generally seen as the biggest posers because of that.

'A' and 'Er' are two completely different meanings.

There is NO difference in meaning just because someone changes the ending. If a white person says something racist and chooses to use the -a instead of the -er that doesn't mean he calling you his "friend."

'A' and 'Er' are two completely different meanings. However, even then when Black people use the word, it is almost always used in a positive 'brotherly love' kind of expression. Obviously no black person whom is not self hating would ever use 'er'.

However, a white person that even uses 'a' could have a double meaning under its usage. Not to say that it would be completely in a racist intent, but it could be implied through body language that they may be more animated with it's usage among other friends (even if with black friends) compared to how black people may use it, or if that particular white person would supplement a word of similar brotherly admiration. Growing up in the suburbs with tons of so called 'Wiggas', they were generally seen as the biggest posers because of that.

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying lol.

There is NO difference in meaning just because someone changes the ending. If a white person says something racist and chooses to use the -a instead of the -er that doesn't mean he calling you his "friend."


That’s what I was trying to get at. Black people use it in the sense of calling someone a friend. White people, even if they use ‘a’ could still use it as a way of being racist (or trying to ‘act black’, which ironically in many ways comes off as racist). Overall, hence why no white person should really be using that word at all.

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying lol.


Well I apologize for the misunderstanding. It just seemed to me that you were justifying a white person say the n-word for ‘joking’ purposes. I disagree. A white person shouldn’t be saying that word in any context. Even if they come off in a friendly way and or may be into black culture, it’s still a big slap in the face.

Reminds me of the whole Rachel Dolezal controversy from a few years ago. You remember? The so-called ‘white liberal’ that pretended to be black. And she used all of the stereotypical characteristics of black women to validate her being ‘oppressed’ and trying to seek ‘justice’. That type of sh!t honestly irks me. It’s quite disturbing

Well I apologize for the misunderstanding. It just seemed to me that you were justifying a white person say the n-word for ‘joking’ purposes. I disagree. A white person shouldn’t be saying that word in any context. Even if they come off in a friendly way and or may be into black culture, it’s still a big slap in the face.

Reminds me of the whole Rachel Dolezal controversy from a few years ago. You remember? The so-called ‘white liberal’ that pretended to be black. And she used all of the stereotypical characteristics of black women to validate her being ‘oppressed’ and trying to seek ‘justice’. That type of sh!t honestly irks me. It’s quite disturbing

Yeah I wouldn't justify that sh1t lmao. I feel like when it comes to the N-word and the F-word, it's a very different situation. It's a lot easier for black people to claim the N-word than it is for gays to claim the F-word because race is a lot more noticeable than sexuality. If a white person were to say the N-word, it would have immediate backlash because that person obviously isn't black. But if someone said the F-word, we wouldn't know right away if that person is gay or not to claim that word (not to mention they could lie at anytime). Basically what I'm saying is that race is a lot more noticeable than sexuality. This is why I believe it's more socially accepted to say the F-word and be straight than it is to be white and say the N-word.

Yeah I wouldn't justify that sh1t lmao. I feel like when it comes to the N-word and the F-word, it's a very different situation. It's a lot easier for black people to claim the N-word than it is for gays to claim the F-word because race is a lot more noticeable than sexuality. If a white person were to say the N-word, it would have immediate backlash because that person obviously isn't black. But if someone said the F-word, we wouldn't know right away if that person is gay or not to claim that word (not to mention they could lie at anytime). Basically what I'm saying is that race is a lot more noticeable than sexuality. This is why I believe it's more socially accepted to say the F-word and be straight than it is to be white and say the N-word.


F-word.... Flamboyant? ???

F-word.... Flamboyant? ???

No the word "F@gg0t".

No the word "F@gg0t".


Oh.  :o

No the word "F@gg0t".


Here where I live, so many classmates used that word against each other and made fun of each other with that word, even if you weren't gay. I always thought it just meant "double gay", "extra gay", or "super gay". Of course in Georgia being gay period was really bad, so bad that even if you weren't a gay person, just wearing something girly or doing something girly enough as a male, you were considered as "gay" and everyone had to avoid you. I never knew the word was that derogatory until long after I finished HS, especially once I started getting on the internet.

F@ggot is a kind of meatball in the UK - you’ll see boxes in supermarkets with the word f@ggot on them because that word wouldn’t typically be seen as referring to gay people here.

See for yourself: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282049626

I would guess only young people would see it as a derogatory word against gay people due to the internet. Older people wouldn’t know that. Even f@g is a very common slang word for cigarette. Both words, when used against gay people, are what I’d call Americanisms.

The N word is still seen as a horrible racial slur, but if a black person is okay with a white friend calling them that then that’s their prerogative.

Here where I live, so many classmates used that word against each other and made fun of each other with that word, even if you weren't gay. I always thought it just meant "double gay", "extra gay", or "super gay". Of course in Georgia being gay period was really bad, so bad that even if you weren't a gay person, just wearing something girly or doing something girly enough as a male, you were considered as "gay" and everyone had to avoid you. I never knew the word was that derogatory until long after I finished HS, especially once I started getting on the internet.

The Internet will have you thinking the world is 10x more progressive than it really is. I see a lot of people on Twitter being woke about things, especially language (like don’t call things gay that’s homophobic) and it’ll receive like 100K likes, which makes you think less people would start using that word in that context, but in real life it’s still quite common to hear it.

F@ggot is a kind of meatball in the UK - you’ll see boxes in supermarkets with the word f@ggot on them because that word wouldn’t typically be seen as referring to gay people here.

See for yourself: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282049626

I would guess only young people would see it as a derogatory word against gay people due to the internet. Older people wouldn’t know that. Even f@g is a very common slang word for cigarette. Both words, when used against gay people, are what I’d call Americanisms.

The N word is still seen as a horrible racial slur, but if a black person is okay with a white friend calling them that then that’s their prerogative.



I thought a ****** was a cigarette?

I thought a ****** was a cigarette?


No, just the first three letters... ***.

With the way this thread is going I think it would be better to move to the "religion and politics" thread. With that being said. Everyone on here has the right to have their own preference, but when you're too forceful or crucifying someone for having a stance for what they believe in, then that's when I have a major problem. If Rainbowz feels like her future son (as a kid with a young innocent mind) should never wear dresses, then that's her own opinion & choice, and that's final.

You know, what's getting old around here is how some users bemoan the fact not enough men have long hair, or that fashion is too gender conforming...gender this, gender that. I say you do you. They're as bad as the people who hurl vitriol at people who don't conform or maybe fall somewhere in the lgbt umbrella. A few weeks ago at a restaurant I was served by a male server who had short boy hair, but was wearing long acrylic nails. Some of him was gender conforming, some wasn't, and I feel things like that are being accepted with time as I notice more of it. Not everyone feels gender fluid or gender neutral, it's fine to be that way, but no need to shame those who truly aren't because they're just being themselves. The shaming does go both ways and needs to stop.


YES. Enough said. I shouldn't have to claim to be transgender in order to get employed as an Emo guy. Probably that's why nobody in my area is attractive to me. The '10s may have been allright for gay people with traditional standards of beauty, but not for gay people such as me.

I tell you, the '10s were a living hell for me. I got so obsessed with NSFW thoughts that I couldn't even feed myself most of the time because I tried finding release without hooking up with someone fugly. And just in case you thought I could have lowered my standards, I couldn't, because I was always wondering if years after marrying someone with a hideous hairstyle, society would become more accepting towards long-haired emo guys.

I was pissed. De facto, I couldn't be in a relationship, yet I was always thinking about the opposite possibility.

If you don't want to be judged yourself, you shouldn't be calling people "fugly." Emo was a trend of the 2000s. There are alternative people out there if you choose to look for them. But if you're this fixated on looks being the end all be all, you're probably not ready to date.

You know, what's getting old around here is how some users bemoan the fact not enough men have long hair, or that fashion is too gender conforming...gender this, gender that. I say you do you. They're as bad as the people who hurl vitriol at people who don't conform or maybe fall somewhere in the lgbt umbrella. A few weeks ago at a restaurant I was served by a male server who had short boy hair, but was wearing long acrylic nails. Some of him was gender conforming, some wasn't, and I feel things like that are being accepted with time as I notice more of it. Not everyone feels gender fluid or gender neutral, it's fine to be that way, but no need to shame those who truly aren't because they're just being themselves. The shaming does go both ways and needs to stop.
If you don't want to be judged yourself, you shouldn't be calling people "fugly." Emo was a trend of the 2000s. There are alternative people out there if you choose to look for them. But if you're this fixated on looks being the end all be all, you're probably not ready to date.


I agree. I'm all for people dressing how they want to dress, but it goes both ways. People need to stop calling people with short hair or beards "ugly" or "fascist" and other things I've seen on here.

I agree. I'm all for people dressing how they want to dress, but it goes both ways. People need to stop calling people with short hair or beards "ugly" or "fascist" and other things I've seen on here.


Then there is the trend for E-Boys which I understand is the big style trend for 2020.

You know, what's getting old around here is how some users bemoan the fact not enough men have long hair, or that fashion is too gender conforming...gender this, gender that. I say you do you. They're as bad as the people who hurl vitriol at people who don't conform or maybe fall somewhere in the lgbt umbrella. A few weeks ago at a restaurant I was served by a male server who had short boy hair, but was wearing long acrylic nails


That's the way it was in the early 70s. People were "gender-bending" (that was the phrase for it then), but didn't necessarily have to have long hair or whatever. Someone might have short hair and wear a leather motorcycle jacket, but also be wearing eye makeup, glitter, nail polish and a feather boa. (Feather boas were big for androgynous males in the 70s). Long hair seems to be associated with gender fluidity on this site. You can be gender fluid with NO hair. Let's be careful not to have gender fluidity become just one more uniform.

Then there is the trend for E-Boys which I understand is the big style trend for 2020.


Someone said it was too gender conforming, despite the fact they have long hair and wear nail polish. *shrugs* Personally I really like the style.


That's the way it was in the early 70s. People were "gender-bending" (that was the phrase for it then), but didn't necessarily have to have long hair or whatever. Someone might have short hair and wear a leather motorcycle jacket, but also be wearing eye makeup, glitter, nail polish and a feather boa. (Feather boas were big for androgynous males in the 70s). Long hair seems to be associated with gender fluidity on this site. You can be gender fluid with NO hair. Let's be careful not to have gender fluidity become just one more uniform.


Well said, especially the last bit.

There was gender bending long before emo, people are talking like they invented it.

Someone said it was too gender conforming, despite the fact they have long hair and wear nail polish. *shrugs* Personally I really like the style.

That could have been me. Here's why I think so - both pictures were taken from reblogs on my Tumblr:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4902ce7abaf5be40e2bca1e330913e59/tumblr_mudtjhZz8W1siz54co1_1280.jpg
E-boys look like 90s guys wearing dark clothes and hair. The 90s I doubt had this gender non-conformity going on. Nail polish isn't something I easily notice. They simply look like Leonardo DiCaprio and look rather boyish. This to me is gender non-conforming relatively speaking because he's wearing long hair and looks like he's taken good care of his skin and hair.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6f5403d795e25309662b64e5f274c23a/tumblr_mynjv0cTYa1siz54co1_250.jpg
This captures a typically "girly" aesthetic - long pink hair, a big lollipop or something to make them smaller and cuter and an alluring expression is something I see more typically from women. I don't think the e-boy aesthetic can capture that.

That could have been me. Here's why I think so - both pictures were taken from reblogs on my Tumblr:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4902ce7abaf5be40e2bca1e330913e59/tumblr_mudtjhZz8W1siz54co1_1280.jpg
E-boys look like 90s guys wearing dark clothes and hair. The 90s I doubt had this gender non-conformity going on. Nail polish isn't something I easily notice. They simply look like Leonardo DiCaprio and look rather boyish. This to me is gender non-conforming relatively speaking because he's wearing long hair and looks like he's taken good care of his skin and hair.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6f5403d795e25309662b64e5f274c23a/tumblr_mynjv0cTYa1siz54co1_250.jpg
This captures a typically "girly" aesthetic - long pink hair, a big lollipop or something to make them smaller and cuter and an alluring expression is something I see more typically from women. I don't think the e-boy aesthetic can capture that.



Don’t E-Boyz like to wear chains too? I think I saw that somewhere.

That could have been me. Here's why I think so - both pictures were taken from reblogs on my Tumblr:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4902ce7abaf5be40e2bca1e330913e59/tumblr_mudtjhZz8W1siz54co1_1280.jpg
E-boys look like 90s guys wearing dark clothes and hair. The 90s I doubt had this gender non-conformity going on. Nail polish isn't something I easily notice. They simply look like Leonardo DiCaprio and look rather boyish. This to me is gender non-conforming relatively speaking because he's wearing long hair and looks like he's taken good care of his skin and hair.



Oh yes the 90s did have gender non-conformity going on. Do you think it just suddenly came out of nowhere in the past few years? It's just that the big deal wasn't made about it that is now. It wasn't the flavor of the month yet. The dark haired guy in the photo doesn't look particularly gender non-conforming anyway. He could be any skateboard type guy from the 1960s to now.

Oh yes the 90s did have gender non-conformity going on. Do you think it just suddenly came out of nowhere in the past few years? It's just that the big deal wasn't made about it that is now. It wasn't the flavor of the month yet. The dark haired guy in the photo doesn't look particularly gender non-conforming anyway. He could be any skateboard type guy from the 1960s to now.
I admit that I prefer the 2000s flavor of gender non-conformity but it's like the only one I know since I wasn't alive before 1997. The rest simply don't capture me in the same way. As someone who came from a very gender conforming background, this to me is. I've only seen men outside of my community wear their hair long.

That could have been me. Here's why I think so - both pictures were taken from reblogs on my Tumblr:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4902ce7abaf5be40e2bca1e330913e59/tumblr_mudtjhZz8W1siz54co1_1280.jpg
E-boys look like 90s guys wearing dark clothes and hair. The 90s I doubt had this gender non-conformity going on. Nail polish isn't something I easily notice. They simply look like Leonardo DiCaprio and look rather boyish. This to me is gender non-conforming relatively speaking because he's wearing long hair and looks like he's taken good care of his skin and hair.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6f5403d795e25309662b64e5f274c23a/tumblr_mynjv0cTYa1siz54co1_250.jpg
This captures a typically "girly" aesthetic - long pink hair, a big lollipop or something to make them smaller and cuter and an alluring expression is something I see more typically from women. I don't think the e-boy aesthetic can capture that.


The person in that picture looks like a mix of emo and skater. I want those bracelets to be in style again though. I still have mine.

The person in that picture looks like a mix of emo and skater. I want those bracelets to be in style again though. I still have mine.


I had those black leather bracelets with the silver triangular type studs in the late 70s/early 80s during the punk era. I may still have one. I could probably sell it for a lot of money as "vintage" now.  :) 

Some music clubs at the time were banning them because they thought they could be used as weapons, believe it or not.  ::)

I had those black leather bracelets with the silver triangular type studs in the late 70s/early 80s during the punk era. I may still have one. I could probably sell it for a lot of money as "vintage" now.  :) 

Some music clubs at the time were banning them because they thought they could be used as weapons, believe it or not.  ::)

The spiked ones are definitely not allowed at venues. Not sure about studded bracelets, but studded belts are fine as far as I know. The belts were never particularly comfortable, but I do have a spiked bracelet I never wear because I don't know what places in general will make a fuss

That could have been me. Here's why I think so - both pictures were taken from reblogs on my Tumblr:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/4902ce7abaf5be40e2bca1e330913e59/tumblr_mudtjhZz8W1siz54co1_1280.jpg
E-boys look like 90s guys wearing dark clothes and hair. The 90s I doubt had this gender non-conformity going on. Nail polish isn't something I easily notice. They simply look like Leonardo DiCaprio and look rather boyish. This to me is gender non-conforming relatively speaking because he's wearing long hair and looks like he's taken good care of his skin and hair.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/6f5403d795e25309662b64e5f274c23a/tumblr_mynjv0cTYa1siz54co1_250.jpg
This captures a typically "girly" aesthetic - long pink hair, a big lollipop or something to make them smaller and cuter and an alluring expression is something I see more typically from women. I don't think the e-boy aesthetic can capture that.



By the way, is there a trick or method to guys getting their hair that sort of flat, super-straight way? It's hard to believe everybody who looks like that was just born with that kind of hair.

By the way, is there a trick or method to guys getting their hair that sort of flat, super-straight way? It's hard to believe everybody who looks like that was just born with that kind of hair.


You have to use a hair straightener. I came close to burning my scalp many times, especially since my hair didn't get long enough to be able to use it properly. ;D

To me it is another sign of relative gender non-conformity since I don't really see guys spending a long time with their hair and even growing it long.

To me it is another sign of relative gender non-conformity since I don't really see guys spending a long time with their hair and even growing it long.


Undercuts are easy. My hair just naturally goes that way.

To me it is another sign of relative gender non-conformity since I don't really see guys spending a long time with their hair and even growing it long.


The things you are saying are "gender non-conforming" like "taking good care of skin and hair" sounds more like "metrosexual" than "gender non-conforming" to me. I think there's a little more to gender nonconformity than just good hygiene (ie paying attention to one's skin, hair, etc). You make it sound like every "gender conforming" male you see must be a slob with bad skin and short hair.  On the other hand, there are no doubt gender non-conforming people who don't pay an undue amount of attention to their skin beyond keeping it clean, which sounds like a pretty healthy attitude to me. Skin doesn't need a lot of "product".

And, there's a LOT of gender-conforming heterosexual males who pay a LOT of attention to their hair. You must be seeing too many of the guys with what I call "the schlub look". Backwards baseball cap, bulky t shirt, baggy cargo shorts (blech!) and chunky sneakers. They're EVERYWHERE. It's an especially offensive look for people over age 25.

The things you are saying are "gender non-conforming" like "taking good care of skin and hair" sounds more like "metrosexual" than "gender non-conforming" to me. I think there's a little more to gender nonconformity than just good hygiene (ie paying attention to one's skin, hair, etc). You make it sound like every "gender conforming" male you see must be a slob with bad skin and short hair.  On the other hand, there are no doubt gender non-conforming people who don't pay an undue amount of attention to their skin beyond keeping it clean, which sounds like a pretty healthy attitude to me. Skin doesn't need a lot of "product".

And, there's a LOT of gender-conforming heterosexual males who pay a LOT of attention to their hair. You must be seeing too many of the guys with what I call "the schlub look". Backwards baseball cap, bulky t shirt, baggy cargo shorts (blech!) and chunky sneakers. They're EVERYWHERE. It's an especially offensive look for people over age 25.
I live in the UK in an expensive area so people dress a little better on average. I barely see people wear shorts here in cold weather and the clothes they're wearing are all form-fitting. Baseball caps aren't a common thing either. If they're not wearing that then I often see men in what appears to be office attire too I think. Probably the "ugliest" clothes I see people wear are track pants or leggings but they're about as common as pants or jeans. A lot of the guys I see wear the short back and sides hair, which is itself a low maintenance style. I guess I occasionally see guys with bad skin although I am someone who could take better care of their skin and hair - because I'm a man, at least on the outside, I get a little bit more of a free pass on that.

My big deal is how people prefer to express themselves amplify my gender issues, considering I come from a rather sizeable and tight-knit community with more traditional values compared to the natives of this country. I also have even worse issues than those around gender which I prefer to not elaborate on and which I want to address first.

Someone said it was too gender conforming, despite the fact they have long hair and wear nail polish. *shrugs* Personally I really like the style.

Well said, especially the last bit.

There was gender bending long before emo, people are talking like they invented it.



What kind of nail polish?

What kind of nail polish?


They like to dress all-black, including black nail polish.

The things you are saying are "gender non-conforming" like "taking good care of skin and hair" sounds more like "metrosexual" than "gender non-conforming" to me. I think there's a little more to gender nonconformity than just good hygiene (ie paying attention to one's skin, hair, etc). You make it sound like every "gender conforming" male you see must be a slob with bad skin and short hair.  On the other hand, there are no doubt gender non-conforming people who don't pay an undue amount of attention to their skin beyond keeping it clean, which sounds like a pretty healthy attitude to me. Skin doesn't need a lot of "product".

And, there's a LOT of gender-conforming heterosexual males who pay a LOT of attention to their hair. You must be seeing too many of the guys with what I call "the schlub look". Backwards baseball cap, bulky t shirt, baggy cargo shorts (blech!) and chunky sneakers. They're EVERYWHERE. It's an especially offensive look for people over age 25.


The term 'metrosexual' seems super dated to me, like a time capsule of what the world's relationship with gender-bending was in the late 90s/early 00s. Nowadays a lot of things that were considered metrosexual were either normalized or called by what it actually is: queer aesthetic. A lot of cishet men I know that are around my age consider skin care and fashion to be normal for everyone to like.

The term 'metrosexual' seems super dated to me, like a time capsule of what the world's relationship with gender-bending was in the late 90s/early 00s. Nowadays a lot of things that were considered metrosexual were either normalized or called by what it actually is: queer aesthetic. A lot of cishet men I know that are around my age consider skin care and fashion to be normal for everyone to like.


Lolll in 2009 my boss told me my acne made me hideous and I was scaring the customers away. I've been taking care of my skin ever since. At first, I was so embarrassed to have friends over and use my bathroom and see all the beauty care products, but actually most walked out of my bathroom impressed ;D

Lolll in 2009 my boss told me my acne made me hideous and I was scaring the customers away. I've been taking care of my skin ever since. At first, I was so embarrassed to have friends over and use my bathroom and see all the beauty care products, but actually most walked out of my bathroom impressed ;D

Omg that's just so uncalled for and nasty and unprofessional! Acne is medical, I know, I've dealt with hormonal acne for YEARS beyond my teens and I washed my face and used product religiously!  >:( It's not a sign of hygiene or for some, a thing that can be helped much and wow it pisses me off to hear someone told you that, of all the nerve!

Omg that's just so uncalled for and nasty and unprofessional! Acne is medical, I know, I've dealt with hormonal acne for YEARS beyond my teens and I washed my face and used product religiously!  >:( It's not a sign of hygiene or for some, a thing that can be helped much and wow it pisses me off to hear someone told you that, of all the nerve!


It's true. For me it's genetic. My mom gets pimples at 53 (although for her, it makes her look young/cutesy) and even I still get acne if I stop applying the product.

At the time I was really hurt by what he said especially since it was at the depth of my depression and I felt nobody liked me, but at this point I'm glad he got me into skin care. :P

I'm non-binary but I go by she most of the time. I hope gender can become more neutral someday...

I'm non-binary but I go by she most of the time. I hope gender can become more neutral someday...

Then  you do you.

Actually I would like to see a well-defined third gender emerge in this decade. It would help to define the workings of a ménage à trois, with each participant knowing the roles and expectations.  :P