Being an obsessive car enthusiast since I was a little boy, I would absolutely hate for non-autonomous or drivable cars to be banned by the time I buy myself a nice high-end vehicle. But at the same time as a Computer Engineering/Computer Science student and AI enthusiast I find the technology very interesting as well. What is your opinion?

Being an obsessive car enthusiast since I was a little boy, I would absolutely hate for non-autonomous or drivable cars to be banned by the time I buy myself a nice high-end vehicle. But at the same time as a Computer Engineering/Computer Science student and AI enthusiast I find the technology very interesting as well. What is your opinion?


First off I see no “mass market” need for this, at least not to the degree people would have you believe. Certainly there are people who would benefit from the technology once it is shown to work safely. But let me address a different aspect.

You see these companies putting “autonomous” cars out on the road with “safety drivers” at the wheel to “make sure things are safe”. This is hogwash. Either the car is driving itself, or the human is driving the car. The idea that somehow the vehicle will be “safer” because a human is sitting in the front seat to take over is a cynical and/or misinformed concept.

I have extensive experience in quality control, and one thing I can tell you with certainty is that if you want to ruin the quality in an operation, have two inspectors assigned. And when problems arise, you’ll inevitably hear each inspector blame the problem on the other, with words to the effect “I thought he was taking care of that”.

The psychology and physiology of the “safety driver” is a false narrative. If an autonomous vehicle “needs” to have the “safety driver” present, then it does not belong on the public roads.

First off I see no “mass market” need for this, at least not to the degree people would have you believe. Certainly there are people who would benefit from the technology once it is shown to work safely. But let me address a different aspect.

You see these companies putting “autonomous” cars out on the road with “safety drivers” at the wheel to “make sure things are safe”. This is hogwash. Either the car is driving itself, or the human is driving the car. The idea that somehow the vehicle will be “safer” because a human is sitting in the front seat to take over is a cynical and/or misinformed concept.

I have extensive experience in quality control, and one thing I can tell you with certainty is that if you want to ruin the quality in an operation, have two inspectors assigned. And when problems arise, you’ll inevitably hear each inspector blame the problem on the other, with words to the effect “I thought he was taking care of that”.

The psychology and physiology of the “safety driver” is a false narrative. If an autonomous vehicle “needs” to have the “safety driver” present, then it does not belong on the public roads.


The point is to improve safety compared to what's on the road now. Computers don't make mistakes, but the humans who build them do–and if there's faulty code or hardware then you have the human driver at hand to take back manual control.

We can talk about blame games, but if computers cause a lot fewer accidents than humans, and it makes the road safer then I'm all for it. At the moment it is assistive and replacement technology – it makes drivers better at driving, rather than replacing drivers.

Personally I'm excited for autonomous vehicles. :) It would free up a lot of time and energy for a lot of people, it's very exciting technology. I don't consider myself a car enthusiast though.

The point is to improve safety compared to what's on the road now. Computers don't make mistakes, but the humans who build them do–and if there's faulty code or hardware then you have the human driver at hand to take back manual control.



You assume that the “human safety driver” is maintaining attention. The psychology of the matter is that this is not a reasonable expectation. We’ve already seen a number of autonomous wrecks where the “safety driver” did nothing. Its not that the safety driver is a bad person... it is that the nature of the setup is such that his/her attention diminishes rapidly. After all, the car is driving itself.

In the split second that the “safety” driver has to determine to take over operations, the wreck has become inevitable.

I wish I had a nickel for every time in my manufacturing career, somebody put a second inspector on a production line and lived to regret it. Its the same principle... you’re either running the show or you’re not.

You assume that the “human safety driver” is maintaining attention. The psychology of the matter is that this is not a reasonable expectation. We’ve already seen a number of autonomous wrecks where the “safety driver” did nothing. Its not that the safety driver is a bad person... it is that the nature of the setup is such that his/her attention diminishes rapidly. After all, the car is driving itself.

In the split second that the “safety” driver has to determine to take over operations, the wreck has become inevitable.

I wish I had a nickel for every time in my manufacturing career, somebody put a second inspector on a production line and lived to regret it. Its the same principle... you’re either running the show or you’re not.


Even if they are not maintaining attention, if the computer is a better driver than the human, then the driving has improved by definition. ;)

The human is there in case something goes wrong, but even if they mentally aren't there, this is still a statistical improvement.

They are a blessing. They will reduce accidents by a lot if everyone gets on board with the idea. No more drunk driving incidents and other traffic violations and accidents. I just don't know how soon they will come. It may take awhile for them to come. I'm sure it will start off as a car sharing service like Uber, which would make the most sense, but then everyone who works for Uber and taxi drivers will get unemployed. There are a lot of things to consider, even thought the idea is great. My mind is on all the things you can do in a self driving car. You cam set it up as a movie theatre, or as a luxurious bed, or a lounge, a regular car, etc. And basically pay more for whatever car concept you desire. Think of how convenient having a car come by itself to pick you up would be, and how relaxing road trips would be. The possibilities are endless. But is the tech there? Is it ready? Are people ready? So many unanswered questions, and so little time. I think if they come and  they are mainstream there will still be people driving but actually purchasing vehicles would be a niche market like having a private jet for car enthusiasts. But the option will always be available to those who want it. Where there's money involved things will never go obsolete so there's no need to worry about that OP.

They are a blessing. They will reduce accidents by a lot if everyone gets on board with the idea. No more drunk driving incidents and other traffic violations and accidents. I just don't know how soon they will come. It may take awhile for them to come. I'm sure it will start off as a car sharing service like Uber, which would make the most sense, but then everyone who works for Uber and taxi drivers will get unemployed. There are a lot of things to consider, even thought the idea is great. My mind is on all the things you can do in a self driving car. You cam set it up as a movie theatre, or as a luxurious bed, or a lounge, a regular car, etc. And basically pay more for whatever car concept you desire. Think of how convenient having a car come by itself to pick you up would be, and how relaxing road trips would be. The possibilities are endless. But is the tech there? Is it ready? Are people ready? So many unanswered questions, and so little time. I think if they come and  they are mainstream there will still be people driving but actually purchasing vehicles would be a niche market like having a private jet for car enthusiasts. But the option will always be available to those who want it. Where there's money involved things will never go obsolete so there's no need to worry about that OP.


I think something like an autonomous vehicle lane is the best way to start getting people used to it. I'm surprised no one else seems to have brought this idea up.

While I'm not personally against the idea of self-driving vehicles, I do fear the autonomous future. I highly doubt wealth, resources, and education will be redistributed in the right ways when that future crash lands on us. The fall out is not going to be pretty.

I just hope I don't lose my career. :(

I just hope I don't lose my career. :(


I expect whore houses will still need piano players  ;)


In truth I think the technology still has a way to go.  Computers just can't work with the randomness of humans, especially in city centre traffic or busy motorways

I expect whore houses will still need piano players  ;)


In truth I think the technology still has a way to go.  Computers just can't work with the randomness of humans, especially in city centre traffic or busy motorways


They invented player pianos over 100 years ago.  ;D

I think I'll be all right since I have a local driving position which is more labor intensive (loading/unloading/securing freight) than long haul driving positions are.

But I do worry about what is going to happen to society once technology has advanced to the point where all manual labor positions are eliminated in favor of automation. I hope I'm wrong but I worry that once we reach that point, the overwhelming majority of people are going to be living the same lifestyle as those who used to be coal miners in West Virginia and Kentucky.  I can't see it going well.  :(

I think, that at least here in Germany, there will always be a way for humans to take control over the car. First we love to drive way too much for it to be taken away and second all the high performance car makers will make sure that there is a way for their clients to do reckless driving (otherwise there isn't much point in buying an overpowered car and that would put our industry out of business :D).
Can you imagine a Porsche or Beamer sticking to the speed limits because the autopilot can't be programmed to break the traffic code? Heresy!!!

Could you trust them if a cab with no one in it take you places you wanted to go?

Could you trust them if a cab with no one in it take you places you wanted to go?


After they outlaw meat 20 years from now, if you get caught eating a cheeseburger they could remotely lock the doors and trap you inside and drive you off a cliff or in front of a train and there would be nothing you could do about it.    :o :o :o

Statistically speaking, in my 27 years of driving I've avoided any major crash.  I can't trust a computer or automaker to make something that will do that.  They can't even get non self driving devices to work properly a lot of the time.  I'll stick with my older cars that aren't dependent on computer control for things like steering/throttle/brakes, thank you.

I don't like self-driving vehicles. Sounds creepy to me. I prefer learning how to drive by using steering wheel and brake the old fashioned way. I even learned a little bit about stick shifts too lol. I do better on the road knowing when to control myself and being in the habit of knowing my road skills (safety) so I can stay alive on the road. I don't want a car automatically driving myself around then I get more nervous on what's gonna happen to me. The thought of my automatic car malfunctioning due to a hacker or something. I don't wanna know...

I would like to try one out at least.

I would like to try one out at least.


I would like to hail a cab that is driverless.

For me an autocar would take the fun out of driving.  I don't even like auto transmissions, I drive a 6 speed manual (it's just a Honda  Civic, but lots of fun)

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand as someone who doesn't drive, I'm sure I could benefit from it so I don't have to ask people for rides. On the other hand, it sounds VERY scary.


Cat

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand as someone who doesn't drive.


Cat


I’m curious to know is there a specific reason why you can’t drive?

I’m curious to know is there a specific reason why you can’t drive?



Yes. I'm blind.


http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=39241.0


Cat

It doesn't have to completely replace human drivers. Just have a couple around like cabs so people can just ride it for the experience. Once is enough for me.  :)

Yes. I'm blind.


http://www.inthe00s.com/index.php?topic=39241.0


Cat


I'm about to read this, but early thoughts, wow...... I don't know what to say. It's amazing to see what you've been through and how hard you've fought. You're an inspiration for a lot of folks fighting any blindness, deaf, paralysis, disease, cancer, disorder, etc. in general. Do you have some major senses you've built up over the years to survive being blind? Like how are you able to know what we're typing? Do you have a tool that helps you highlight the words on "inthe00s" so you're able to hear what we type and post?

I'm about to read this, but early thoughts, wow...... I don't know what to say. It's amazing to see what you've been through and how hard you've fought. You're an inspiration for a lot of folks fighting any blindness, deaf, paralysis, disease, cancer, disorder, etc. in general. Do you have some major senses you've built up over the years to survive being blind? Like how are you able to know what we're typing? Do you have a tool that helps you highlight the words on "inthe00s" so you're able to hear what we type and post?


Most people don't know that I am visually impaired unless I tell them. I have good central vision and can still read. (As for my typing, I studied typing in my early days and basically typed as part of my job for years and even taught typing at one time so I could do it blindfolded. It is just my spelling that sucks.  :D) It is my peripheral vision (or lack there of) and night vision that is effected. Many people just think that I am a klutz because I bump into & trip over things. Even Carlos sometimes forgets and will hand me something and when I don't respond, he remembers and says, "Here." Then it takes me a few seconds to find what he is holding out to me. And if something falls on the floor, I know it is there but it takes me a long time to find it because I have to be looking right at it.

I feel really bad if someone is reaching out to shake my hand, I am not being rude by not taking it, I just don't see it. That happened one time and Carlos was there to tell me that someone wanted to shake my hand.

The funny thing is that sometimes I see something that Carlos didn't and I will say, "It takes a blind woman."


Cat

It doesn't have to completely replace human drivers. Just have a couple around like cabs so people can just ride it for the experience. Once is enough for me.  :)


And what about for it to take them places where they want to go?  ???